On this date in: 1547        Ivan the Terrible was crowned Czar of
Russia.
>
>

Well, I'm planning to be at Estrella from Wednesday on so hopefully can
swing by your class and sit on the outskirts listening, hard to keep a 2 1/2
year old tamed down for an hour or more but I'm going to try. I would be
glad to meet some of the SIg members.

Kathws Rusa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Brannigan" <Judwiga@...>
To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:38 PM
Subject: [sig] Estrella War get together


> Hi All!!
> I will be teaching a Polish history class at Estrella, Friday afternoon,
and
> I would like to invite you all there for a get together.  I dont know off
> hand what time, but I hope to meet you all there!!!
>
>
>
> Judwiga CzarnaPika Ze Smokza Jamy
> Barrouly gules and argent, a canton azure, mulletty of 50 argent.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I have a somewhat expanded version of the article I wrote for
the SIG about my trip to Poland, along with a few pictures, on
my website.  If you'd like to take a look, it's at:

http://users.rcn.com/jjbober4/krakow.htm

Jan

Does anyone know if Paul's dictionary can be used as a
stand-alone no-copy source for registering names?
Just wondering.

-- Kseniia Smol'nyanina



=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christine Jacobs          chrstnj@...
      http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj
      ** Current time zone:  Pacific **
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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IIRC I did and I used it for my wife's name too.  I think (don't quote
me) that is all you need.

Sergei

I couldn't find Paul's dictionary on the No-photocopy list in the CoA
administrative handbook...

--
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne@...
disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
"There is a price which is too great to pay for peace, and that price
can be put into one word. One cannot pay the price of self-respect."
     -- Woodrow Wilson

Some patterns linked to
http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/PolArtCostumeWeapons.htm are from the
late 1500s.

--- In sig@y..., "Sarah Grochoski" <grochosk@b...> wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I'm new to the group, but I've been in the SCA awhile now.  I'm
just a not-so-gentle Irish gal with a stubborn Polish husband.
Sigh...  I've got a couple of portraits of men's garb, but they are
from about 1639-1660.  I was looking for the Polish equivalent of
Elizabethan.
>
> YIS,
>
> Medb ingen Adomnan
>
> grochosk@b...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Does anyone know if Paul's dictionary can be used as a
> stand-alone no-copy source for registering names?
> Just wondering.
>
> -- Kseniia Smol'nyanina

When I had my heraldry consultation at Pennsic, I believe that Paul's
dictionary was the source they used to look up my name.

--Sofia Chiudskaya Smolianina
(how they spelled it...and how they altered it because "Chyudka" wasn't in
Paul's dictionary--though I found it through an SCA page.:P)

--- "Robert L. Parker" <parkrobe@...> wrote:
> IIRC I did and I used it for my wife's name too.  I
> think (don't quote
> me) that is all you need.
>
> Sergei
>

If you can find your information in the online
edition, print out the page you need and highlight the
pertinent information.  That's what I did for my name.
  It's a nice little courtesy.

Tasha

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> I apologize for being off-topic, but I'm curious about the colours of men's
> tunics in Eastern Slavic lands somewhere between the 8th and the 11th
> century. I know modern folklore tends to dress Russians in white tunics with
> red trim, but I was wondering about any other colours in that particular
> period.

Sorry for the delay in replying - I'm slightly behind in my email.

White was a fairly popular color for men's tunics, and indeed the
undertunic would normally have been white.

Looking through a few of my books, though, I see illuminations of men
wearing tunics that are red, yellow, dark and light blue, brown, sort
of an off-pink, and green, with contrasting trim from the same group
of colors.

While this may say more about the colors available for painting than
what they actually used for clothing, I have seen a very similar color
palette used for ecclesiastical embroideries, so these colors were
both available and used for fabric items as well.

I think they're probably all safe for clothing. Especially the
red. Red is beautiful, after all... :)

Kat'ryna
--
Kate Jones                         |     I turned my world upside-down
kate@...            |  and that's how everything landed...

I tend to look at questions like this as follows - what would
they have had around to dye the fabric with?  Or, in the case
of "white" not dye it with.  I tend to be very leery of true
"white", just because I'm unsure of period bleaching techniques
sans Clorox.
If I remember correctly, there is a CA kicking around on dying.
  I'd say, check that out and see if you can cross reference with
some resource which will tell you if that particular plant was
period to the Russia you want to hale from.
Just some thoughts.

Jan

Where can I find a copy of such book?

Tatianna


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne M. McKinney" <agent_h@...>
To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [sig] Paul's Dictionary of Russian Names


>
>
> > Does anyone know if Paul's dictionary can be used as a
> > stand-alone no-copy source for registering names?
> > Just wondering.
> >
> > -- Kseniia Smol'nyanina
>
> When I had my heraldry consultation at Pennsic, I believe that Paul's
> dictionary was the source they used to look up my name.
>
> --Sofia Chiudskaya Smolianina
> (how they spelled it...and how they altered it because "Chyudka" wasn't in
> Paul's dictionary--though I found it through an SCA page.:P)
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I believe linen bleaches out with sunlight, and you are not supposed to use
chemical bleaches on it.  It does not take natural dyes well, but the
Scythian soldier (in "Scythian Gold" the catalog from the recent exhibit)
under his armored shirt is wearing a long sleeved shirt and long pants in a
warm raspberry colored linen, embroidered in wave motifs at all openings.
(May have originally been red or the deep raspberry color also known as
"Tyrian purple".)

Wool and silk take dyes very well, and were available.

What I want to know is why the underarm gusset in men's white shirts was RED,
when red is such a fugitive color? And likely to be influenced by
perspiration.

Soraya Evodia

In a message dated 1/18/2002 7:39:26 PM Central Standard Time,
jjbober4@... writes:


> I tend to look at questions like this as follows - what would
> they have had around to dye the fabric with?

Vegetable dyes mostly, but also expensive cochineal (an insect giving a red
dye), and dyed fabrics from China, Persia, Byzantium, wool from England, etc.


The native dyes probably weren't much different from what was used in
Northern Europe in general.

Predslava (reference-less since the library's had to be fed -- it swallowed
back all "my" books!)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 1/18/2002 7:57:16 PM Central Standard Time,
Sarayya@... writes:


> What I want to know is why the underarm gusset in men's white shirts was
> RED,
> when red is such a fugitive color? And likely to be influenced by
> perspiration.

I've wondered about that, too, but they did it even in 19th/20th century folk
costumes.

Predslava.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Sarayya@... wrote:
> I believe linen bleaches out with sunlight, and you
> are not supposed to use
> chemical bleaches on it.

Clorox will make white linen yellow.  However, it does
bleach itself out again, but in the meantime, you're
stuck with this yellowy yukky stuff.

One good thing about the dye-shedding properties of
linen is that if your doofus (now-ex) boyfriend washes
it with your brand-new red sarafan with the red and
white trim, incorrectly believing that because the
fabric was washed prior to making up the dress, that
the red will not bleed, and thereby dying your white
rubahka a lovely (but unwanted) pale pink, it will
shed the dye quickly and be white again after about 4
or 5 washings.

Yes, I'm still bitter.  The trim I so painstaking
handstitched onto the dress is now red and pink.

{snip}
>
> Wool and silk take dyes very well, and were
> available.
>
> What I want to know is why the underarm gusset in
> men's white shirts was RED,
> when red is such a fugitive color? And likely to be
> influenced by
> perspiration.
>
> Soraya Evodia
>

I seem to recall reading that red was a lucky color,
viewed as protective, and that that's why it was
typically placed at the openings of the tunic (collar,
cuffs, and bottom hem)... perhaps the red gussets were
to protect the meridians of the body from evil
spirits?  I'm really stretching here, but it's as good
(or bad) a theory as any.

Tasha

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--- Tatianna Codlin <tatianna_codlin@...>
wrote:
> Where can I find a copy of such book?
>
> Tatianna
>

http://sca.org/heraldry/paul/
The above is the online edition.  Copies of his most
current edition can be ordered for $23 from Free
Trumpet Press West (http://sca.org/heraldry/ftpw/),
which is the publications office of the College of
Arms.  The Dictionary is now in its third edition.

Tasha

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In a message dated 1/18/2002 11:36:13 PM Central Standard Time,
tasha_medvedeva@... writes:


> I seem to recall reading that red was a lucky color, viewed as protective,
> and that that's why it was typically placed at the openings of the tunic
> (collar, cuffs, and bottom hem)... perhaps the red gussets were to protect
> the meridians of the body from evil spirits?  I'm really stretching here,
> but it's as good
> (or bad) a theory as any.

It's not a bad theory. I haven't come across anything that says *red* is a
protective color, but various shades of red certainly predominate in Russian
period fashion. What I have read, is that *embroidery* at the openings of a
garment (collar, hem, sleeves) is there to prevent evil spirits from entering
the body. No period proof of that, though, IIRC.

Now in Russian folk weddings, pins or needles were placed at strategic
locations in a bride's dress to protect her from evil spririts that could try
to take possession of her at such a vulnerable time [between families,
between states: neither her parents' child nor belonging to her family
in-law; neither unmarried nor wife: it's a liminal state, so evil spirits can
have a ball unless she's magically protected. Grooms don't seem to be so
beset].

So yes, details of clothing with a magical meaning do make sense.

Predslava.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Christine Jacobs wrote:

> Does anyone know if Paul's dictionary can be used as a
> stand-alone no-copy source for registering names?
> Just wondering.

Yes, it can.  The on-line edition is available through the Laurel Office
website, indicating its official approval.  Keep in mind, though that the
on-line version is the second edition, while the newer third edition
contains many more entries, some additional information and corrections,
and is not likely to ever be put on-line.

When using the Dictionary, be sure to indicate the edition you've used,
the headword for each item you're documenting, and the date to which the
element is documented.  This makes it much easier on the heralds who will
process your submission and send it up for registration.

--Walraven

>I seem to recall reading that red was a lucky color,
>viewed as protective, and that that's why it was
>typically placed at the openings of the tunic (collar,
>cuffs, and bottom hem)... perhaps the red gussets were
>to protect the meridians of the body from evil
>spirits?  I'm really stretching here, but it's as good
>(or bad) a theory as any.
>
>Tasha


I think I know where you read that.  It was in "Women's Work: the First
20,000 years: women, cloth, and society in early times." by E.J.W.
Barber.  She mentioned the red=protection from evil and that it was placed
at the "entries" to the body for such purposes.  Of course, I can't recall
_where_ she found the information.

--Yana

--- Jenn/Yana <slavic@...> wrote:
>
> >I seem to recall reading that red was a lucky
> color,
> >viewed as protective, and that that's why it was
> >typically placed at the openings of the tunic
> (collar,
> >cuffs, and bottom hem)... perhaps the red gussets
> were
> >to protect the meridians of the body from evil
> >spirits?  I'm really stretching here, but it's as
> good
> >(or bad) a theory as any.
> >
> >Tasha
>
>
> I think I know where you read that.  It was in
> "Women's Work: the First
> 20,000 years: women, cloth, and society in early
> times." by E.J.W.
> Barber.  She mentioned the red=protection from evil
> and that it was placed
> at the "entries" to the body for such purposes.  Of
> course, I can't recall
> _where_ she found the information.
>
> --Yana
>

I wish I could remember where I left that book; I
never did finish it.  :-)

Tasha

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Hi, folks -

Any idea if/when this stich was used in period Russia?

Thanks!
-- Kseniia Smol'nyanina

--- Friday or Rafaella <rafaella13@...> wrote:
> Greetings Lady Serena, et al.
>
> This is easier to show than describe but I'll take a
> stab. Imagine a grid of evenweave fabric. Plain
> cross
> stitch makes a single X over as many threads as you
> like (usually 1x1 or 2x2 depending on the
> technique).
> LASC (long-armed cross stitch) which I usually do in
> 2x2 squares, starts with an X but then you come back
> up in the original hole and go over 4 squares to
> make
> the long arm of the stitch, then finish the new X
> over
> 2 threads, repeat long, repeat short, until end of
> thread which you finish with a short stitch (this
> locks down the long stitch, make sure you end with a
> short stitch).
>
> Master Richard Wymarc's embroidery page has some
> good
> examples:
> http://www.flash.net/~wymarc/asoot/cross/cross.htm
> At the bottom of this page is a gif file showing how
> the stitch is done (XST1E.GIF).
>
> In Service,
> Senhora Rafaella


=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christine Jacobs          chrstnj@...
      http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj
      ** Current time zone:  Pacific **
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Hello list members!

I am forwarding this post from another list because the subject seemed a
good one to me, but I haven't yet seen any replies to this topic...and I had
hoped perhaps I could find someone knowledgeable on this subject here...Any
assistance is greatly appreciated! ;)
~Jade

> > I just had a general question to begin with regarding the disabled in
> > ancient Slavonic nations:
> > The blind, the deaf, etc.  were there any special spiritual powers
> > associated with them, were all disabled grouped together as is common
> > practice today, or was each disability considered unique etc. Also some
of
> > the South Slavonic and West Slavonic words for the disabled from ancient
> > times would be appreciated (if they exist, in any case approximations
> would
> > suffice)

This hit my mailbox after several forwards... The last section seems
relevant to this list, so forgive my including the OOP bits as well ;-)

A.

[quote]

-----Original Message-----
To: AnthEurasia-L@...
Subject: ICL

Dear colleges

The department of History and Ukrainianknowing of the East-Ukrainian
National University invites you to take part in the international
scientific conference which is taking place on the 17th-18th of may,
2002 in Lugansk (Ukraine). Organizers of the conference address to you
with the request to inform about the data of holding of colleges'
conference in your country and abroad

In the frames of section "Archaeology" the work of following directions
is stipulated:

1.  Stone century.
2.  Epoch of bronze.
3.  Nomads of Eurasia.

STONE CENTURY

1.       Methods of researches.
2.  Paleolithic art.
3.  Concepts of development of information systems in
Paleolithic-Neolithic.
4.  Ethnocultural processes in the stone century.
5.  Technological processes in the epoch of stone.
6.  Results of field researches.

EPOCH OF ENEOLITHIC AND  BRONZE

1.  Methods of researches.
2.  Cultural - historical processes in the epoch of bronze.
3.  Metallurgical manufacture.
4.  The development of transport.
5. Results of field researches.

EURASIAN NOMADS

1. Methods of researches.
2. Nomads and settled population: mutual influence of the Stateness and
culture.
3. Problems of formation of early nomadic societies (questions of
chronology).
4. Late nomads: funeral ceremony and ideological representation.
5. Results of field archaeology.

Vetrov Victor
East Ukrainian National University
Department History and Ukrainianknowing
the assistant of the scientific department.
Ukraine. Lugansk, bl. Molodezny, 20 a
Tel. (0642) 46-22-84
e-mail: vet@...
http://lep.lg.ua/~vet

[unquote]

Cheers!

---------------------------
Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
e-mail: alastair@...,    http://www.skriptorium.cz
P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic

I wrote a small article re: subject for slovo, but I would like to run it by
someone who knows how the Russian Saints are translated into english, and
can check the rest of my church lingo -- I am afraid this is a weak spot.
So if you'd like a sneak preview minus the pic, e-mail me!

-Dmitriy V Ryaboy
SCA Dmitriy Shelomianin, Captain of the Guard to Queen Portia of the West

(the title is new, I get to flaunt it once, right? ;)

Dmitriy napisal:

> I wrote a small article re: subject for slovo, but I would like to run it by
> someone who knows how the Russian Saints are translated into english, and
> can check the rest of my church lingo -- I am afraid this is a weak spot.
> So if you'd like a sneak preview minus the pic, e-mail me!

Well, given that I'm not just Russian Orthodox but a survivor of a Russian
Orthodox seminary and an iconographer, I'd be glad to take a look. It sounds
interesting!

Effingham

There's an interesting article on the _historical_ medicinal uses of hemp
in the January 2002 issue of _History Today_. The text of the article can
be retrieved online from www.findarticles.com, the title is:
"The `homelie herbe': Vivienne Crawford examines the medicinal history of
cannabis in Britain."

  --
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne@...
disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
"You're down as expendable.  You don't get a weapon." Diana Wynne Jones

<snip>
> > >I seem to recall reading that red was a lucky
> > color,
> > >viewed as protective, and that that's why it was
> > >typically placed at the openings of the tunic
<snip>
> > >
> > >Tasha

Being new here.... I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the
colour red used on a Ukrainian egg has the traditional symbolic
meaning of magic, action, spiritual awakening, fire, charity, the sun,
passion. I've seen it used often with symbols that signify protection
especially of protection for children. I'd think it would be likely
that the symbolism would cross into other things (like clothing).
-Kataryna

congratualtions, Dmitriy...new decorations to be shown off at Pensic...way
to go..Sergius

In a message dated 1/29/2002 6:54:28 PM Central Standard Time,
eclipsek@... writes:


> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the
> colour red used on a Ukrainian egg has the traditional symbolic
> meaning of magic, action, spiritual awakening, fire, charity, the sun,
> passion.

That is a modern interpretation. The danger with trying to interpret medieval
Russian designs (or anything else) when we're familiar with folklore or
modern traditions is that there usually isn't a straight, clear connection
through the centuries.

Yes, red is prevalent in Russian art (and clothing), but why -- there is no
answer to that, at least not as specific as we'd want. All we have is, "they
liked it."

Predslava.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]