Ok for all of you garb fanatics out there, I have a couple questions.
This will be my first foray into sewing my own garb.  I have had some
decent stuff made in the past by friends but feel that if I want it done
right, I have to do it myself.  Any help would be appreciated.
1) when inserting gussets , do you make two for each side (for a coat,
for example)?
2) How would you add a back slit for riding that doesn't hang funny.  I
am planning on trying a rectangular pattern and the pics I've seen don't
mention this.

Thanks,
Sergei

>From: sig@yahoogroups.com
>Reply-To: sig@yahoogroups.com
>To: sig@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [sig] Digest Number 569
>Date: 1 Apr 2001 09:16:55 -0000
>
>
>There is 1 message in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: looking for info on winged hussars and late period polish
>clothing
>            From: "Robert L. Parker" <parkrobe@...>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 01:08:01 -0700
>    From: "Robert L. Parker" <parkrobe@...>
>Subject: Re: looking for info on winged hussars and late period polish
>clothing
>
>I was sort of waiting for someone else to answer this because I don't
>have a lot of info, but here goes.  I found some really excellent stuff
>lately and thought it might be interesting and helpful.  Here are the
>links.
>
>  http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/
>  http://landofthewingedhorsemen.homestead.com/winged_horsemen.html
>  http://www.domnasz.freeserve.co.uk/wojna01.htm
>  http://members.home.net/tomkaczor/
>  http://www.sandiegosistercities.org/sister/warsaw/hussaria.html
>
>Some are better than others.  Hope this helps.
>Oh and one comment to the group as a possible thread for
>discussion/rehashing.  So what if the really cool armor for Polish
>Hussars is 50 years outside SCA period guidelines.  They can be
>documented as existing prior to 1600.  So what do y'all think?
>
>Stirring up trouble,
>Sergei
>
>PS 'Dak, You still around?
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Parker, are you a Star Was fan hence the name Dak?
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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Last update:  23 March 2001

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**What are "the Knowledge Pages?"
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BALTIC STATES (includes Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania)
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1336/baltic/

CROATIA
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1336/croatia/

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POLAND
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ROMANIA
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RUSSIA
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day Russian Federation)

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Knowledge Pages in the works:
--Transylvania

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**  What about music and art?

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Happy Researching!

--- "Robert L. Parker" <parkrobe@...> wrote:
> Ok for all of you garb fanatics out there, I have a couple
> questions.
> This will be my first foray into sewing my own garb.  I have had
> some
> decent stuff made in the past by friends but feel that if I want it
> done
> right, I have to do it myself.  Any help would be appreciated.
> 1) when inserting gussets , do you make two for each side (for a
> coat,
> for example)?
> 2) How would you add a back slit for riding that doesn't hang
> funny.  I
> am planning on trying a rectangular pattern and the pics I've seen
> don't
> mention this.
>
> Thanks,
> Sergei

Well, what are you making?  I can't imaging that a riding slit (you'd
likely want one in front, as well) would make it hang funny.  I can
tell you how to do a facing, if that's how you intend to finish it.
I've made a couple of tunics and dels for riding (and am about to get
started on some Chinese fabric armor for riding, too), and I've never
had any problems like that.

I LOVE rectangular construction.  You can lay out the pattern with a
yardstick and a water-based marker, and it goes together SO quickly.

As for gussets, you can do them in two pieces, as it makes assembly
much easier.  You sew a triangle to the either side of the sleeve at
the shoulder with the hypoteneuse towards the cuff, sew the sleeve to
the shoulder, then sew the underarm seam.  I understand that one
piece is more period, but I haven't tried it yet.  I work stuff out
in my head for weeks before I try it, so I figure I'd just sew on
side of the square to one side of the sleeve at the shoulder, sew the
sleeve to the shoulder, and then sew the underarm seam as usual.  I
figure it might get a little more complex to sew the seam, but I'm
not erribly worried about it.  That's what seam rippers are for.
:-)  I need to make at least one new rubahka between now and Pennsic,
anyway, and I'll try it then.

Tasha

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

I just wanted everyone to know that the Russian Knowledge Page has moved.
I've decided to put it up on both freeservers.com and Yahoo/Geocities.  So
if one site is not responding, you can simply go to the mirror!   I am
updating the links as I go, but it is a _very_ long process.  Let me know
if you find a dead link, as always.

The main page is at
<http://medievalrussia.freeservers.com>
and the mirror is at
<http://www.geocities.com/medieval_russia>

Enjoy!

--Yana

Can you describe what you mean exactly by "hang funny"? A slit down the
straight of the grain is going to separate at the bottom. I forgot what
the formula is - an eighth of an inch per x amount of vertical distance.
I just don't remember what the value of x is. Are you constructing the
back with a center seam, or cutting the slit into the center back?

Ilijana Krakowska

  From: "Robert L. Parker" <parkrobe@...>
Subject: Garb questions

2) How would you add a back slit for riding that doesn't hang funny.  I
am planning on trying a rectangular pattern and the pics I've seen don't
mention this.

Thanks,
Sergei

>2) How would you add a back slit for riding that doesn't hang funny.  I
>am planning on trying a rectangular pattern and the pics I've seen don't
>mention this.


Hmmm, do you mean "hang funny" at the apex of the cut?  Are you asking how
to bind off the raw edges so that the point lays flat?  Am I making any sense?

--Yana

As some people may remember, I do quite a lot of work with the City of
Prague Museum. Most of the stuff I deal with is either too recent or much to
early to be appropriate here, but some panels for the new permanent
exhibition being set up at the moment might be interesting. When the whole
text (about 15 pages) is ready, I'll gladly send it to anyone interested. In
the meantime, some of the less site-specific material I'll post to the list.
So here we go...

[quote]
HOW DID THEY LIVE?

During the 8th and 9th centuries, the Slavs in the Prague Basin established
their colonies close  to watercourses, on agriculturally favourable sites,
and built well-fortified enclosures on naturally defensible spurs at S'arka,
Butovice, Bohnice-Zamka and nearby at Levy Hradec (Roztoky).

Fig.4/1 Agricultural colonies preserved the traits of an earlier time: they
comprised square or rectangular dwellings, 5-20m2 in area,  which were
sunken or free-standing. Their walls, supported by posts, were of wattle and
daub, or were timber, made of rough logs or split trunks. These dwellings
were generally covered by a ridge roof with straw or reed thatch.

[snip]

Fig.4/6 Pr'emysl the Ploughman, from the 12th century frescoes of the Znojmo
rotunda.
The Slavs were above all farmers. They cultivated wheat, millet, rye, oats
and peas, as well fruit, especially well-known varieties of plum, apple and
pears. They tilled square or rectangular fields, as is indicated for example
by the traces of cross ploughing found at Klárov. They also collected wild
fruit and nuts, especially hazelnuts. In the forests and meadows they kept
beef cattle and pigs, as well as rearing sheep, goats, chickens and geese.
To a lesser extent they also hunted wild animals, fished, and practiced
beekeeping. They had horses of a small, fast, steppe type, and kept dogs in
their settlements.

[unquote]

More over the next day or two ;-)

A.

---------------------------
Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
e-mail: alastair@...,    http://www.skriptorium.cz
P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic

First off, thank you all very much.  Ok, I am planning on doing a Polish
Hussar's coat with a Rectangular pattern as per all the sites I have
seen posted on the internet.  I will cut the rectangle (front & back all
one piece), cut 4 (right?) trinagle gussets, slit the front for the
opening, cut the neck hole, and slit the back for a riding slit.  If I
cut the slit, instead of using a 2 piece back, then when I sew the hem
on each side of the slit, I will have a gap from missing fabric and it
won't hang right (IMHO).  I guess I could use bias tape or some such.  I
figure this is probably the answer to keep the edges the same.  If
anybody has a better idea for anything I have mentioned, I would be very
grateful.

Thanks again,
Sergei

Alright,  I've pretty close to finishing my name, or so I hope.  I
even got the SCA papers to register.

How does this look,

     Kuzma Dragoslav syn Bronislav
    {baptismal name, everyday or common first name, and then patronymic}


   I hope I have not done something wrong,

     thanks for any help,
     Andrew

--- Robert Parker <parkrobe@...> wrote:
> First off, thank you all very much.  Ok, I am planning on doing a
> Polish
> Hussar's coat with a Rectangular pattern as per all the sites I
> have
> seen posted on the internet.  I will cut the rectangle (front &
> back all
> one piece), cut 4 (right?) trinagle gussets, slit the front for the
> opening, cut the neck hole, and slit the back for a riding slit.
> If I
> cut the slit, instead of using a 2 piece back, then when I sew the
> hem
> on each side of the slit, I will have a gap from missing fabric and
> it
> won't hang right (IMHO).  I guess I could use bias tape or some
> such.  I
> figure this is probably the answer to keep the edges the same.  If
> anybody has a better idea for anything I have mentioned, I would be
> very
> grateful.
>
> Thanks again,
> Sergei

Yeah, this is an approach.  I've always found turning bias tape at
the apex of the slit difficult, but I'm sure you'll figure something
out.  Another approach (and one that might actually save fabric,
depending on how you cut) is to do a center back seam.  That'll solve
the issues with it hanging oddly.

You do want right triangles for the gussets; make sure to cut them
bigger than you think you'll need, because you'll want to allow for
seam allowance on all three sides.

Also, cut the neck opening *before* you slit the front; it'll be
easier to handle.  In fact, if you're finishing the neck with a
facing, you can stitch that to the place where you want the neckline
first, then cut inside the stitching.  That way you can stitch where
you want the neckline to fall and not worry about allowing for seam
allowance.

How are you closing the front?  That might make a difference on how
you finish it.  You might have to add a bit to get a good-looking
overlap.

I find bias tape and quilt binding invaluable for finishing raw edges
and trimming garb.  Also, if your fabric has a tendency to ravel,
zigzag stitch along the edges.  That'll keep it from coming apart
before you get the garment finished.  (I'm using rayon for a court
outfit, and it was coming apart in my hands until I zigzagged it.)

That's about all I can think of at the moment.  Let me know if you
have any other questions.

Tasha

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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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Shold be :
Kuzma Dragoslav syn Bronislava or to be more Russian ;
Dragoslav Bronislavovicz Kuzma.
Art.

Paul here (using Yana's account)

At 02:30 PM 4/2/01 , you wrote:
>    Alright,  I've pretty close to finishing my name, or so I hope.  I
>even got the SCA papers to register.
>
>How does this look,
>
>    Kuzma Dragoslav syn Bronislav
>   {baptismal name, everyday or common first name, and then patronymic}

You _might_ be able to claim that syn Bronislav was an unmarked
patronymic, but why not be grammatical and go with:

Kuzma Dragoslav Bronislavov syn


... that would work better...

-- Paul (returning you to my zhena groznaia)

Well... it's finally happened... after almost a year (gulp!) I have actually
started to update my website with miscellaneous SIG-related stuff on it...
[pause for gasps of astonishment]

One of the things on the site is a list of people who are interested in
things Bohemian... just so we know who we are! If you're not on it, show
yourselves!!! Below the names I have so far... anyone else like to be added?
Let me know please!

A.


Name: Krista Harjamaki
SCA persona: Alena z Prahy
Interests: Bohemian culture, language, clothing, art, history and anything
else I haven't thought to look into yet!  :-)

Name: Patricia Hefner
SCA persona: Isabelle de Foix
Interests: Czech and Moravian history (especially Church history and
folklore), music, early period textile arts, garb, jewelry, and other stuff
I can't think of right now :-)

Name: Jenny Hess
SCA persona: Enna Bonetrader
Interests: Some time in the early 900's - as I learn about the politics I'll
pick a year, then decide whether to stay in it or to progress ahead, as
years do. My interests are leatherwork, which is also my job, and heraldry,
though that is really way past my period. The town of Aussig (Usti) on the
Elbe (Labe) is my area of interest, along with the life of an artisan &/or
merchant.

Name: Alastair Millar
SCA persona: None
Interests: Bohemian and Moravian history, material culture, and archaeology,
especially pre-1100. Czech language (mainly modern) and translation.

Name: Kate Rayburn
SCA Persona: Anezka z Rozmitala
Interests: Bohemian culture, clothing, language, etc during the 14th and
15th centuries.  Especially interested in the Hussite Revolution and Music.

Name: Wesley Simpson
SCA persona: Vaclav Slovaczek
Interests: Bohemian 15th century weapons and clothing, as well as map
collecting, metalwork, leatherworking, clothing and firearms.

Name: Jeff Smith
SCA persona: Barcsi Janos
Interests: Bohemian and Moravian history, castles, nobility and archaeology.

Cheers!

Alastair

---------------------------
Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
e-mail: alastair@...,    http://www.skriptorium.cz
P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic

Sergei,
I recently made a fighting tunic from a rectangular pattern.  It's
fully lined and reversible, and has a standup collar and dog paws.  I
used square gussets(one square gusset per side).  I think the square
gussets give more strength as the fabric bias is the direction that
takes the strain.  I also slit the back for riding and sides, too.
When are you going to be in Utah next?  I probably won't be doing
much SCA-wise for a few months, since I broke my shoulder blade in a
motorcycle accident, but if you plan to be to an event nearby I
should be able to attend and I could talk to you about the tunic's
construction.  I need to talk to you about your helmet, as well.  I
still owe you some pics, too.
You know you can contact me off-list.
Landolf

--- In sig@y..., "Robert L. Parker" <parkrobe@i...> wrote:
> Ok for all of you garb fanatics out there, I have a couple
questions.
> This will be my first foray into sewing my own garb.  I have had
some
> decent stuff made in the past by friends but feel that if I want it
done
> right, I have to do it myself.  Any help would be appreciated.
> 1) when inserting gussets , do you make two for each side (for a
coat,
> for example)?
> 2) How would you add a back slit for riding that doesn't hang
funny.  I
> am planning on trying a rectangular pattern and the pics I've seen
don't
> mention this.
>
> Thanks,
> Sergei

Mr. Millar,
   >I would appreciate if you could send me all 15 pages to my email address.
   >Thanks.
   >G. Gavranov
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

"regular reg" <hcchallenge2000@...> wrote...

>Mr. Millar,
>  >I would appreciate if you could send me all 15 pages to my email
address.


Call me Alastair ;-)
Do you mean the webpages? If so, can you wait until I've updated them?

A.

---------------------------
Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
e-mail: alastair@...,    http://www.skriptorium.cz
P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic

Came across this, which raises an excellent point (IMHO)...
From Z. Smetanka's forthcoming review in the Czech journal "Archeologicke
rozhledy" (the "Archaeological Review") of P. Crabtree's "Medieval
Archaeology - an Encylcopedia"...

[quote]

The geographical extent of the encyclopedia is defined as the "Latin west,
stretching from Poland to Iceland and from southern Italy to northern
Scandinavia". These limits are exceeded to the east by the isolated
inclusion of Novgorod, which is justified by the importance, and we can
assume significance, of research there, about which there can be no doubt. A
further contribution to the exceptional inclusion of Novgorod was probably
the fact that the archaeology of this locality is available in an English
monograph (Yanin V. L. et al., Archaeology of Novgorod - Russia, Lincoln:
Society of Medieval Archaeology 1992, Monograph Series 13), as well as in an
earlier publicaction written by M. W. Thompson (Novgorod the Great, London
1967), while for example for the no less important Kiev (centre of the early
Russian state from the mid-9th to first half of the 13th centuries; the
problem of the significance and influence of the Varangian ethnic group on
the link from Scandinavia via Kiev to Byzantium and the Orient; a site also
lying in an important position at the junction of the trade routes linking
Scandinavia as well as Western and Central Europe to the lands in the East)
no such exception is made; one must ask whether this is because there is no
good, informative publication in English of the sort avaialble for Novgorod.

[unquote]

Cheers!

A.

---------------------------
Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
e-mail: alastair@...,    http://www.skriptorium.cz
P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic

Alastair,

I was referring to this part;

"When the whole
>text (about 15 pages) is ready, I'll gladly send it to anyone interested. "

So, whenever you are ready. Thanks.

G.G.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Greetings Slavic Interest Group List!

Just a quick note to let you all know that the Spring Slovo is now
available on the website.  The URL is:

<http://slavic.freeservers.com>

-- Paul Wickenden, on Yana's account

I am translating as fast as I can! Seesh!
<grin>

-Dmitriy Shelomianin


>From: "Alastair Millar" <alastair@...>
>Reply-To: sig@yahoogroups.com
>To: "SIG List" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [sig] Novgorod v Kiev in western encyclopedia
>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:58:30 +0200
>
>Came across this, which raises an excellent point (IMHO)...
>From Z. Smetanka's forthcoming review in the Czech journal "Archeologicke
>rozhledy" (the "Archaeological Review") of P. Crabtree's "Medieval
>Archaeology - an Encylcopedia"...
>
>[quote]
>
>The geographical extent of the encyclopedia is defined as the "Latin west,
>stretching from Poland to Iceland and from southern Italy to northern
>Scandinavia". These limits are exceeded to the east by the isolated
>inclusion of Novgorod, which is justified by the importance, and we can
>assume significance, of research there, about which there can be no doubt.
>A
>further contribution to the exceptional inclusion of Novgorod was probably
>the fact that the archaeology of this locality is available in an English
>monograph (Yanin V. L. et al., Archaeology of Novgorod - Russia, Lincoln:
>Society of Medieval Archaeology 1992, Monograph Series 13), as well as in
>an
>earlier publicaction written by M. W. Thompson (Novgorod the Great, London
>1967), while for example for the no less important Kiev (centre of the
>early
>Russian state from the mid-9th to first half of the 13th centuries; the
>problem of the significance and influence of the Varangian ethnic group on
>the link from Scandinavia via Kiev to Byzantium and the Orient; a site also
>lying in an important position at the junction of the trade routes linking
>Scandinavia as well as Western and Central Europe to the lands in the East)
>no such exception is made; one must ask whether this is because there is no
>good, informative publication in English of the sort avaialble for
>Novgorod.
>
>[unquote]
>
>Cheers!
>
>A.
>
>---------------------------
>Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
>Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
>e-mail: alastair@...,    http://www.skriptorium.cz
>P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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A few notes on the "bozolban" article:

First off, when I see the name of this armour in print it is spelled
"bazuband" or some variation of that.  The word is Persian, and this armor
is not referred to by that name in Russian armour books -- the Russian term,
both period and modern, is "nAruch" (emphasis on a).  Of course the trouble
with the term is that it applies to all vambraces, point or no point.

If you are interested in more historical details about this armor, I suggest
looking at this webpage: http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/page10.html .

As for SCA use:  Lord Mordack correctly points out the problem of covering
the elbow points with this armour.  While the wingless elbow cop method he
suggests is certainly feasible, and happens to be exactly what I do myself
at the moment, I believe this is not the optimum solution.  Two methods that
seem better to me, though perhaps harder to implement, are to modify the
design to be deeper and provide the necessary protection. The above website
has a photo of such naruchi; another excellent design, although more heavly
modified, can be seen on this catalog webpage from White Muntain Armory:
http://www.thegreenman.net/wma/wmaarms.htm  * The second solution is to wear
a wingless elbow cop with the lowest profile ossible (fit it well to your
padding and elbow while making it), or perhaps even a modern plastic elbow
cop -- not something I would do, but reasonable -- and wear it UNDER your
fighting garments to hide it.

A note on materials: As we all know, aluminum is not a period material,
altohugh certainly economical.  The legal way to get street-sign aluminum is
not to take down your local stop sign** (please don't!!), of course, but
rather to contact your local roadworks department.  Be nice to them, show
them why you need the signs (bring pictures, perhaps some armour you already
have), and most likely they will be happy to unload their old signs to you.
Altohugh I do little steel-work myself, from what I understand it is
actually harder to work with aluminum than with mild steel, for it can crack
at the most inopportune moment, and stands up badly to dishing.  Mild steel
can be purchased from a local scrap yard or sheet metal shop fairly cheaply,
or, if you are unable to locate one, at a hardware store for a bit more
money (look for welding materials -- small sheets of steel are usually found
there.  You won't need more than 2 unless you screw up one of them :).
For padding, using sheepskin, or, if that is too expensive, felt (think
moving blankets) gets you much more period look than closed cell foam.

Thanks to Lord Mordack for writing the article!

-Dmitriy Shelomianin

* I am not affiliated with either Silk Road Designs Armoury or White
Mountain armoury. I and Norman Finkelsteyn, the proprietor of Silk Road
Designs, are co-founders of the Red Kaganate, a nomad reenactment group).

** Not to impy that this is what the author of the article suggested -- he
just mentioned that he would never advocate their use, and it might be
unlear to a reader if this is because of the unperiodness of the material or
the illegal nature of acquiring them off the intersection.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

I know this is OT and OOP, but couldn't resist passing it on...

""A rural community in central Russia is making history with the launch of
what NTV television says is the country's first village web site. Levashovo,
in the Yaroslavl region east of Moscow...""

BBC report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/monitoring/media_reports/newsid_12670
00/1267048.stm

Cheers!

A

---------------------------
Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
e-mail: alastair@...,    http://www.skriptorium.cz
P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>From: "Dmitriy V. Ryaboy" <dvryaboy@...>

>Altohugh

Yes, I do know how to spell although.  My fingers are just too fast and
inaccurate.

Dmirtiy (<-- see?!! And that is my own name, mundane, too!)
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Hello all once again,

I am looking for Tournaments Illuminated Issue #96, Fall 1990 which has the
following articles:

"Elegy for an Anciente Kynge" by Yrsa Ivarsdottir
"Cat Got Your Scroll?" by Aaron Faheud Swiftrunner
"Another Look at Writing and Speaking Forsoothly" by Tryggvi Grabardr Olsen
"The Head Knife: A Craftsman's Tool" by Brighid O'Maine
"Some Recipes of al-Andalus" by Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
"Choosing a Medieval Name" Arval Benicoeur
A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration, and Use of Arms and Armor in All
Countries and in All Times (book review)
"Recreating the Mente" by Geta Alexandra din Wallachia and Isvan din Brasov
A Guide to Library Research Methods (book review by Bogdan Illich Volknoi)
"The Celtic Chariot" by Morgan Wolfsinger

I actually want to get a copy of the Recreating the Mente article but would
love to have a copy of the whole issue. I am asking about getting a copy of
this issue because I can not longer get a issue from the SCA main office and
I really would like to have it.

Thanks again to all,

Kathws Rusa, aka Joyce

Hello all,

I have some tent fix-it questions. I have 2 maybe 4 points on our yurt
canvas to fix, they are the 4 grommet hole tie-downs on our smoke hole
cover; 2 of them are ripped with the grommets out and two are stretched
around the grommet holes, not torn yet just stretched if that makes sense.

Question 1: When repairing these areas which are in a small area about 6
inch square and the tears are of 3 inches or so; should I use a glue (like
barge
cement) to attach my repair fabric patches over the torn grommet holes on
both sides of the canvas and then sew down the edges of the repair patches?
Or just sew the repair fabric patches down on both sides of the torn hole
with no cement holding the repair to the canvas.

Question 2: Should I try to use the same type of canvas for my repairs or
would a heavy denim work just as well? (I am trying to get a yard or so of
the same fabric our yurt was made out of from the guy we bought it from, but
if I have to I'll hit one of the awning places in town to get a yard or so
of marine
canvas to use in repairs.)

Question 3: Having made the repairs is there any reason that the grommets
can't go back in the same general area. Remember this is our smoke hole
cover and is tied down to four stakes through these four grommet holes.

Gotta remember also this is New Mexico and one of the Four Seasons is Wind,
followed closely by More Wind, than Fall Wind and Winter Wind. No General
Winter here, just El Jeffe Wind. ;o)

Anyway we definitely need these four stakes in the ground along with 4 to 8
others on the tiedown ropes.

Kathws Rusa, aka Joyce or Chinua's lady

Greetings good lady:

Failing to have a printed copy, I notice that two of those TI articles are
webbed -- see the TI section of the SCA.org web site.  Perhaps others will know
of other parts webbed elsewhere.

Mstislav
Web Minister,
Kingdom of Artemisia


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Lente
   To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com ; sig@yahoogroups.com ;
magyar-sca@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:58 PM
   Subject: [sig] Help! Does anybody have this TI?


   Hello all once again,

   I am looking for Tournaments Illuminated Issue #96, Fall 1990


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What does a "Cheshuichaty Panzir" look like?  As I understand it
"Kuyak" a subtype of scale armour came from "Cheshuichaty Panzir", so
does that mean a ""Cheshuichaty Panzir" could use the same type of
scales?

    something like this Kuyak, but longer?
http://members.nbci.com/Rushistory/armor/varanwar.jpg
         {The guy with the big rectangle plates}



thanks,
     Andrew

"Panzir" means body armor (it's a general term).
"Cheshuichatyi" means made of scales.

It's not a well-defined term, like a kuyak, rather it is a general
description for a body armor made of scales.

The guy on the right in the picture wears something rather ahistorical, I am
afraid..  the scales are far too big.

What exactly are you researching? I can help you.

-Dmitriy


>From: "AKC7" <AKC7@...>
>     What does a "Cheshuichaty Panzir" look like?
<snip>
>    something like this Kuyak, but longer?
>http://members.nbci.com/Rushistory/armor/varanwar.jpg
>         {The guy with the big rectangle plates}

>thanks,
>     Andrew

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> What exactly are you researching? I can help you.
>
> -Dmitriy


     Well actually I'm researching armour so that I may be able to move
on and start making my own to practice in with the SCA.  The problem is,
well as everyone should known chain mail is great period, however since
we are not really trying to cut anyone in the SCA it has little purpose
except for making pretty bruse patterns.  *lol*  Anyway,  after looking
at some examples of armour from "Armies of Medieval Russia 750-1250" by
David Nicolle, the first "plate" "Before the Rus', 9th C AD" has a
Eastern Magyar cavalryman.  And this is what is said about the "plate"
"The advanced metallurgy of the Khazars and their Magyar allies is shown
in many archaeological excavations, few of which are widely known
outside Russia.  In addition to helmits, mail hauberks and lamellar
curasses, some of the Khazar-Magyar millitary elite wore plated lef and
shoulder pieces reflecting Presian and Middle Eastern influence."
what really garbed my attention was the lamellar curass and the plated
shoulder pieces.  The only problem really is did that stuff exist during
the 13th cent.  from what I know I've seen another shoulder plate placed
around the 12th cent.  however I've heard little to nothing about a
curasses.   It was though research that I found out about the
"Cheshuichaty Panzir" on the Silk Road Armoury which says "In Russia,
the scale garment, called "Cheshuichaty Panzir" (literally "Armour of
Scales"), was a local style of armour that existed from time immemorial.
It could be of a variety of styles, from vest to long coat, with
differently shaped plates. In aproximately the thirteenth century, the
Russians began to distinguish a subtype of scale armour by the use of a
Turko-Mongol term -- Kuyak. There seem to be three types of Kuyak: One
of overlapping large rectangular plates (smilar to the Chinese armour I
call Reverse Brigandine), One of plates that allowed gapping where the
leather backing showed through (similar in style to the Kolontar, maile
and plates armour), and one where small, non-overlapping discs were
attached to a backing. All three seem to have generally been a waist
length cuirass of poncho or separate front and back construction, and to
have generally been worn over a knee length Hauberk."

         I might just be confusing my self with some of the complexities
of armour in history.   <shrug>  I hope you can shed some light Dmitriy.


- thanks,
Andrew