It's not horrible. One good test is to translate the result back
to English and see how badly mangled it is. A story from the early days of
computers has"out of sight, out of mind" go to Chinese and back resulting
in "invisible idiot". On the other hand if the translation comes back
acceptably you should be fine.

Svoi Ivonov

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Scott Bradley <sbradley3@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I have but I would feel really bad if the A.I. miss interpreted a phrasing
> to something 'obedient to my liege's horse'. Does anyone have experience
> with it? Is it fairly reliable or not?
>
>
> Capt. Boris Movila
> Warlord, Barony of Flaming Gryphon
>
> From: sig@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sig@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pan
> Zygmunt Nadratowski
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:42 PM
> To: sig
> Subject: [sig] Re: Oath Translation
>
>
>
> Have you tried Google translate?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Svoi Ivonov

	 I gave it a try, it came out pretty good after a couple tweaks.  I
feel comfortable with it.  Thanks for the tip.

Capt. Boris Movila
Warlord, Barony of Flaming Gryphon


-----Original Message-----
From: sig@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sig@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Owen
Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:44 AM
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Oath Translation

It's not horrible. One good test is to translate the result back
to English and see how badly mangled it is. A story from the early days of
computers has"out of sight, out of mind" go to Chinese and back resulting
in "invisible idiot". On the other hand if the translation comes back
acceptably you should be fine.

Svoi Ivonov

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Scott Bradley <sbradley3@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I have but I would feel really bad if the A.I. miss interpreted a phrasing
> to something 'obedient to my liege's horse'. Does anyone have experience
> with it? Is it fairly reliable or not?
>
>
> Capt. Boris Movila
> Warlord, Barony of Flaming Gryphon
>
> From: sig@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sig@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pan
> Zygmunt Nadratowski
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:42 PM
> To: sig
> Subject: [sig] Re: Oath Translation
>
>
>
> Have you tried Google translate?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Glad it helped. I used it for my Laurel oath.
On Aug 30, 2012 7:51 AM, <sig@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> **
>   [image: Yahoo! Groups]
<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMmkwdXNhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIyNjgwN\
ARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyODMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzNDYzMjc0NTg->
>   Slavic Interest Group (SIG) List  Group
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>
>     1 New Message
> Digest #3388
>        1a
>  Re: Oath Translation <#139775ebd906ac16_1a> by "Scott Bradley" boris1889
>
>   Message
>  1a   Re: Oath Translation
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/message/15813;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNXJrYm9zBF9TAzk3Mz\
U5NzE1BGdycElkAzIyNjgwNARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyODMEbXNnSWQDMTU4MTMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2\
xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTM0NjMyNzQ1OA-->
>   Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:38 pm (PDT) . Posted by:   "Scott Bradley" boris1889
<sbradley3@...?subject=Re%3A%20Oath%20Translation>
>  Svoi Ivonov
>
> I gave it a try, it came out pretty good after a couple tweaks. I
> feel comfortable with it. Thanks for the tip.
>
> Capt. Boris Movila
> Warlord, Barony of Flaming Gryphon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sig@yahoogroups.**com <sig%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> sig@yahoogroups.**com <sig%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Owen
> Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:44 AM
> To: sig@yahoogroups.**com <sig%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Oath Translation
>
> It's not horrible. One good test is to translate the result back
> to English and see how badly mangled it is. A story from the early days of
> computers has"out of sight, out of mind" go to Chinese and back resulting
> in "invisible idiot". On the other hand if the translation comes back
> acceptably you should be fine.
>
> Svoi Ivonov
>
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Scott Bradley
<sbradley3@woh.**rr.com<sbradley3%40woh.rr.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > I have but I would feel really bad if the A.I. miss interpreted a
> phrasing
> > to something 'obedient to my liege's horse'. Does anyone have experience
> > with it? Is it fairly reliable or not?
> >
> >
> > Capt. Boris Movila
> > Warlord, Barony of Flaming Gryphon
> >
> > From: sig@yahoogroups.**com <sig%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> sig@yahoogroups.**com <sig%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Pan
> > Zygmunt Nadratowski
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:42 PM
> > To: sig
> > Subject: [sig] Re: Oath Translation
> >
> >
> >
> > Have you tried Google translate?
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------**---------**---------**------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    Reply to sender <sbradley3@...?subject=Re%3A%20Oath%20Translation> .
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> I have a seamstress friend who is interested in Russian sarafan and
> kukushnik (sp?), I am trying to give her ideas, but all I know is Polish
> style.
>
>
Can anyone help with websites with pics and or links to good info??


PS - she would like to make the outfit for the middle of next month ... sigh

Katheryne the Spinner


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 08/31/2012 12:22 PM, Purple Kat wrote:
>>
>> I have a seamstress friend who is interested in Russian sarafan and
>> kukushnik (sp?), I am trying to give her ideas, but all I know is Polish
>> style.
>>
>>
> Can anyone help with websites with pics and or links to good info??
>

Have you seen:

http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/Tatiana/index.html


--
Cathy Raymond
cathy@...
(610) 805-9542

"Remember that time is money."
--Benjamin Franklin

Hop on Pinterest and search on words like russian, costume, sarafan, etc.
There are some really nice pics collected there by fellow SCAers, as well
as those simply interested in Russian and costuming and fashion.

I also echo the recommendation of the strangelove site..


Baron Kazimir Petrovich Pomeshanov

*Aut Aude, Aut Tace! Be bold or be silent!*

www.kazimir-petrovich.blogspot.com<http://www.kazimir.petrovich.blogspot.com/>
http://pinterest.com/kazimir/





On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Purple Kat <purplkat597@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> >
> > I have a seamstress friend who is interested in Russian sarafan and
> > kukushnik (sp?), I am trying to give her ideas, but all I know is Polish
> > style.
> >
> >
> Can anyone help with websites with pics and or links to good info??
>
> PS - she would like to make the outfit for the middle of next month ...
> sigh
>
> Katheryne the Spinner
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,
Fennoscandia Archaeologica, a few years ago, put up all of their backissues of
their journal online, in PDF format for free. For some reason, the links broke
rather quickly, but it seems to be back now:

J�ri Peets, 1987. Totenhandschuhe im Bestattungsbrauchtum der Esten und anderen
Ostseefinnen [Mittens of the dead in the funeral customs of the Estonians, and
other Baltic Finns] _Fennoscandia Archaeologica_ IV; 105-116
http://www.sarks.fi/fa/PDF/FA4_105.pdf

Leena Tomanter�, 1987. Appendix: Nadelhandschuhe aus der j�ngeren Eisenzeit in
Finnland [Needle-mittens from the younger Iron Age in Finland] _Fennoscandia
Archaeologica_ IV; 117-120.
http://www.sarks.fi/fa/PDF/FA4_117.pdf

For more articles, see: http://www.sarks.fi/fa/fa_articles.html

Enjoy!

~ ffride

Thank you!!!

Rekon of Saaremaa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a heads up that I've been warned of malware on one of the sig sites:

(Don't click this link unless you are protected):
http://slavic.freeservers.com/sig_list.html

I got to this page by searching "Slavic Interest Group", and clicking the
"Join our online discussion group" link on this page:
http://slavic.freeservers.com/


I haven't followed any of the other links off that page.

Cheers,

Kazimira


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, we're looking for submissions for the Fall Slovo.  I'm fairly
open when it comes to submissions.  I'd especially be interested in
articles about Pennsic.

Contact me off-list if you have something of interest.

The deadline for the Fall issue is October 1st.


Thanks,
Paul Wickenden

Greetings unto the Slavic Interest Group,

My friends, I have a client who is seeking to register for her primary
persona name *Libuše Makovička*.  Mundanely, her grandmother’s surname
is Makovička, and we have found the name *Libuše* is common enough in the
modern age, and known to be the name of a princess in Bohemian legend.  The
best translation I have of Libuše is some form of *love*, and Makovička
translates to *poppy head*.  Makovička is found at
http://zlimpkk.tripod.com/Genealogy/czechsurnames.html, among another
place, that I can't recall at the moment.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.  Unfortunately, I don't read
Czech.

*Given in loyal service by mine own hand and seal this eighth day of
September, A.S. XLVII, I am
*
*Lord Michael FitzGeoffrey, GdS, OLM, **Midhaven Pursuivant-of-Arms*
*
*

http://wiki.antir.sca.org/index.php?title=Michael_FitzGeoffrey
http://www.michaelfitzgeoffrey.blogspot.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings!

I'm looking for a new bow and I'd like to tailor it to my Russian persona.

Right now I'm leaning toward a Kassai bow, but not sure which one is right.

Has anyone gotten a bow to match a Russian persona?
What did you get? How did it work out?
All advice and suggestions are welcome :)

�

Thank you all in advance,



Lada

Oooooh...
SHINY!


http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4\
602b7ffc&type=1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
believe, a longbow.
Hope this helps,

Tatiana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I, as well, use a Mongolian horse bow. There are samples of that style bow
in period. And oh, they are a dream to shoot.

-Katrusha

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Tatiana Golter <
littlegreensardine@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
> believe, a longbow.
> Hope this helps,
>
> Tatiana
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/

My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/

My baked goods:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f

Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
Artist
Writer
Baker


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will probably need a new bow by next Pennsic.�� Tell me about using the
horsebow: do you have an arrow rest or do you use a shooting glove?�

--Sfandra

******************
Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
http://sfandra.webs.com
Never 'pearl' your butt.
******************


________________________________
  From: Laura Munn <arathreel@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows

I, as well, use a Mongolian horse bow. There are samples of that style bow
in period. And oh, they are a dream to shoot.

-Katrusha

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Tatiana Golter <
littlegreensardine@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
> believe, a longbow.
> Hope this helps,
>
> Tatiana
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>�
>



--
My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/

My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/

My baked goods:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f

Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
Artist
Writer
Baker


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I shoot off my glove. They normally do not come with rests.

-Katrusha

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I will probably need a new bow by next Pennsic.   Tell me about using the
> horsebow: do you have an arrow rest or do you use a shooting glove?
>
> --Sfandra
>
> ******************
> Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
> O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
> http://sfandra.webs.com
> Never 'pearl' your butt.
> ******************
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Laura Munn <arathreel@...>
> To: sig@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows
>
>
> I, as well, use a Mongolian horse bow. There are samples of that style bow
> in period. And oh, they are a dream to shoot.
>
> -Katrusha
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Tatiana Golter <
> littlegreensardine@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
> > believe, a longbow.
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Tatiana
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
>
> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
>
> My baked goods:
> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
>
> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
> Artist
> Writer
> Baker
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/

My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/

My baked goods:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f

Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
Artist
Writer
Baker


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I posted this question to FB as well. The best advice seems a Magyar bow.
One person specifically recommends a kassai bow raven model, that he shoots.
Looks like they all shoot off hand.

Lada

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Laura Munn <arathreel@...> wrote:

> I shoot off my glove. They normally do not come with rests.
>
> -Katrusha
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I will probably need a new bow by next Pennsic.   Tell me about using the
>> horsebow: do you have an arrow rest or do you use a shooting glove?
>>
>> --Sfandra
>>
>> ******************
>> Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
>> O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
>> http://sfandra.webs.com
>> Never 'pearl' your butt.
>> ******************
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Laura Munn <arathreel@...>
>> To: sig@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows
>>
>>
>> I, as well, use a Mongolian horse bow. There are samples of that style bow
>> in period. And oh, they are a dream to shoot.
>>
>> -Katrusha
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Tatiana Golter <
>> littlegreensardine@...> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
>>> believe, a longbow.
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Tatiana
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
>>
>> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
>>
>> My baked goods:
>> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
>>
>> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
>> Artist
>> Writer
>> Baker
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
>
> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
>
> My baked goods:
> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
>
> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
> Artist
> Writer
> Baker
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

*groan, Patches is posting again...*

I shoot a mongolian and there are advantages and disadvantages.

Adavntages:

The "stacking" when you draw the bow id very different.  Most people feel that
it is far easier to draw a 30# mongolian than a 30# recurve or longbow.

Shooting "period" (if you shoot the correct type of arrows) is slightly more
prestigious. Mainly because of the difficulties.

Mongolians and other bows that are shot off the hand don't have a right or left
handed designation.  So if you and a friend want to shoot the same bow but
you're a righty and he's a lefty, it doesn't matter.

You can shoot a mongolian "standing style" (so if you're holding the bow with
your left and releasing the arrow with your right, you arrow is perched on your
left hand) or traditional horse mounted style with a thumbring, in which the
arrow is perched on the LEFT side of the bow.  That takes a lot of getting used
to, and most archers in the SCA don't do it because it's so wonky.


Disadvantages:

Any "period" bow requires that you shoot off to one side. if you're shooting
righty and you are standing right in front of the target, you will have to cant
your bow to the right of the target to hit it.  This is because most modern
recurves that we learn on have a shelf cut in through the middle of the bow,
allowing you to shoot straight on.  Period bows weren't made that way because of
material strength. So you have to shoot around it, so it will take you a while
to get used to altering your aiming technique..

Any bow made by Kassai tends to be 2x more expensive. My mongolian 30# ran about
$400 new.

Getting or making a new bowstring sucks.  You either have to have a special jig
to make one or remember all your specifics and order it online.  Welsh-twisted
bowstrings won't work because the loops at each end of the string are almost 6"
long to accomodate the the structure of the bow when bent.


Hope this helps.

Patches



--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Ladie Lada <ladie_lada@...> wrote:
>
> I posted this question to FB as well. The best advice seems a Magyar bow.
> One person specifically recommends a kassai bow raven model, that he shoots.
> Looks like they all shoot off hand.
>
> Lada
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 11, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Laura Munn <arathreel@...> wrote:
>
> > I shoot off my glove. They normally do not come with rests.
> >
> > -Katrusha
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> I will probably need a new bow by next Pennsic.   Tell me about using the
> >> horsebow: do you have an arrow rest or do you use a shooting glove?
> >>
> >> --Sfandra
> >>
> >> ******************
> >> Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
> >> O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
> >> http://sfandra.webs.com
> >> Never 'pearl' your butt.
> >> ******************
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Laura Munn <arathreel@...>
> >> To: sig@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:53 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows
> >>
> >>
> >> I, as well, use a Mongolian horse bow. There are samples of that style bow
> >> in period. And oh, they are a dream to shoot.
> >>
> >> -Katrusha
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Tatiana Golter <
> >> littlegreensardine@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>> **
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
> >>> believe, a longbow.
> >>> Hope this helps,
> >>>
> >>> Tatiana
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
> >>
> >> My baked goods:
> >> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
> >>
> >> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
> >> Artist
> >> Writer
> >> Baker
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
> >
> > My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
> >
> > My baked goods:
> > http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
> >
> > Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
> > Artist
> > Writer
> > Baker
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

> You can shoot a mongolian "standing style" (so if you're holding the bow
> with your left and releasing the arrow with your right, you arrow is perched
> on your left hand) or traditional horse mounted style with a thumbring, in
> which the arrow is perched on the LEFT side of the bow. That takes a lot of
> getting used to, and most archers in the SCA don't do it because it's so
> wonky.

Some additional observations (some of which probably won't make sense
just to read it without trying it yourself) :

If you are a right-handed archer (gripping the bow in your left hand)
shooting with a western three-finger draw, you'll have the arrow
resting on your left hand to the left of the bow.  This is in part
because as you release, the string rolls slightly off the pads of your
right fingers, which has the effect of pressing the arrow shaft
slightly against the bow as it leaves the string. (if you shot off the
right of the bow, the torque as you release would send the arrow
whanging off to the right)

If you are a right-handed archer using a thumb draw, that slight twist
of the string is reversed (the string is rolling off your thumb
instead).  The arrow must therefore rest on your left hand to the
RIGHT of the bow, to counteract the twist (although, the twist is much
much less with the string released from a smooth ring).

The two big advantages (we found) to shooting off the right side of the bow are:

1) It's much faster -- you don't have to thread the arrow through the
arc of the bow - you just slap it onto the side, draw, and release in
one smooth motion

2) You can hold the arrow in position with the fingers of the hand
that's gripping the bow, leaving your string hand free to do whatever

Issues we've had are as Patches describes:  if you're switching from
western draw to thumb draw, you have to unlearn a certain amount of
body memory -- your aim point and your draw point will both need to
adjust.  In the miniatures, draw point is somewhere around your
clavicle, but the arrows I'm currently shooting with aren't long
enough for that.

I've made things triply hard for myself:  I'm trying to shoot without
a knocking bead, and I'm experimenting with the Chinese barrel-shaped
thumb ring, which introduces a whole additional set of
complications...

The regular Indo-Persian style ring is actually pretty sweet, though,
once you get used to it.

Kazimira

That totally makes sense. A friend has a Mongolian bow and shoots at our
practice so I have observed exactly what you describe.

Also I read somewhere that the Russian draw was with your index finger on/along
the arrow and the muddle to little drawing the string underneath. I can only see
that working if u r shooting from the right side if the bow if u r right handed
and left side if left handed.
That would also help stabilize the arrow by having a finger along it.
I will find the source and post tonight or tomorrow.

Lada

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 12, 2012, at 4:59 PM, T Duran <sazabhadri@...> wrote:

> > You can shoot a mongolian "standing style" (so if you're holding the bow
> > with your left and releasing the arrow with your right, you arrow is perched
> > on your left hand) or traditional horse mounted style with a thumbring, in
> > which the arrow is perched on the LEFT side of the bow. That takes a lot of
> > getting used to, and most archers in the SCA don't do it because it's so
> > wonky.
>
> Some additional observations (some of which probably won't make sense
> just to read it without trying it yourself) :
>
> If you are a right-handed archer (gripping the bow in your left hand)
> shooting with a western three-finger draw, you'll have the arrow
> resting on your left hand to the left of the bow. This is in part
> because as you release, the string rolls slightly off the pads of your
> right fingers, which has the effect of pressing the arrow shaft
> slightly against the bow as it leaves the string. (if you shot off the
> right of the bow, the torque as you release would send the arrow
> whanging off to the right)
>
> If you are a right-handed archer using a thumb draw, that slight twist
> of the string is reversed (the string is rolling off your thumb
> instead). The arrow must therefore rest on your left hand to the
> RIGHT of the bow, to counteract the twist (although, the twist is much
> much less with the string released from a smooth ring).
>
> The two big advantages (we found) to shooting off the right side of the bow
are:
>
> 1) It's much faster -- you don't have to thread the arrow through the
> arc of the bow - you just slap it onto the side, draw, and release in
> one smooth motion
>
> 2) You can hold the arrow in position with the fingers of the hand
> that's gripping the bow, leaving your string hand free to do whatever
>
> Issues we've had are as Patches describes: if you're switching from
> western draw to thumb draw, you have to unlearn a certain amount of
> body memory -- your aim point and your draw point will both need to
> adjust. In the miniatures, draw point is somewhere around your
> clavicle, but the arrows I'm currently shooting with aren't long
> enough for that.
>
> I've made things triply hard for myself: I'm trying to shoot without
> a knocking bead, and I'm experimenting with the Chinese barrel-shaped
> thumb ring, which introduces a whole additional set of
> complications...
>
> The regular Indo-Persian style ring is actually pretty sweet, though,
> once you get used to it.
>
> Kazimira
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This doesn't help you, but I found an interesting resource: a list of names in
the back of the 13th century Codex Gigas, the names themselves are dated to
1594.
http://www.kb.se/codex-gigas/eng/Browse-the-Manuscript/Namnlangd/?&mode=1&page=6\
07#content (you have to zoom in a lot to see it.)
For more information, see:
http://www.kb.se/codex-gigas/eng/Long/texter/Additions/

If it helps at all, the Chronica Boëmorum (Chronicle of Bohemians) seems to be
the earliest source for Libuše, where it is spelled "Libussa".
In:
Berthold  Bretholz. 1923. _Die Chronik der Böhmen des Cosmas von Prag_
(Berlin), the name index at the back has the Latin form "Lubossa"
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00000683/images/index.html?id=0000068\
3&fip=193.174.98.30&no=&seite=368

Our Paul Wickenden of Thanet's _Dictionary of Period Russian Names_ mentions the
same princess as:
Libusa (f) -- Libusa, daughter of Krok. 670. [Khr 250]
http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/l.html

Makovička is an interesting one... "Makovič" seems awfully similar to a
patronymic like "Ma_r_kovič" or "descendant of Marko".

As is, in Paul's dictionary s.n.:
Makovich (Nikola Makovich Dragovich). 1454. [Mor 117]
http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/ma.html
Which can be feminized to Makovich_a_ (instead of -ka).

The closest dated form I can see, to Libusa is "Mach", in 1052. So possibly
Machovicha? But that is still 382 years apart. SENA wants elements to be 300
years apart.

There is also the earlier "Malk-" from 970, which is right on 300 years, but may
be too different from what the submitter wants.

So <Libusa Machovicha> might be a Russian-ised medieval form of <Libuše
Makovička>? (I cannot figure out where that final -ka syllable comes from,
sorry.) But for temporal consistency, she might have to try <Libusa Malkicha>?

Hope that helps, please correct me if I'm barking up the wrong tree!

ffride

<<snip>>
> My friends, I have a client who is seeking to register for her primary
> persona name *Libuše Makovička*.  Mundanely, her grandmother’s surname
> is Makovička, and we have found the name *Libuše* is common enough in the
> modern age, and known to be the name of a princess in Bohemian legend.
<<snip>>

Greetings!

At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly right. We
are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.

The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives a
variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.

He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think we can
overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.

Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from other
heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev, which in
period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got crossed somewhere
when he tried to explain what he wanted.

Apollonia

Here's my understanding from modern Russian...

Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
which would mean good/happy.  So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.

(Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent.  But I don't
know if this was the case in period.)

Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.

Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name.  But you can
go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate.  But I
understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
usually go by only one name.

As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
Annya, and all of them valid.

Hope it helps,
Anya


On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <peterbenma@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Greetings!
>
> At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
> right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
>
> The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
> a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
>
> He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
> we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
>
> Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
> other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
> which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
> crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
>
> Apollonia
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Also, bear in mind that there is no difference between Zaitsev and Zaitsov.

Paul
On Sep 13, 2012 12:23 PM, "Anya Stickney" <anyas5@...> wrote:

> Here's my understanding from modern Russian...
>
> Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
> which would mean good/happy.  So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
> living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.
>
> (Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent.  But I don't
> know if this was the case in period.)
>
> Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.
>
> Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
> person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
> same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name.  But you can
> go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate.  But I
> understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
> usually go by only one name.
>
> As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
> Annya, and all of them valid.
>
> Hope it helps,
> Anya
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <peterbenma@...>
> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Greetings!
> >
> > At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
> > right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for
> him.
> >
> > The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
> > a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
> >
> > He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
> > we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
> >
> > Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
> > other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
> > which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
> > crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
> >
> > Apollonia
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You are right just in what you put within brackets. In fact ZHITESLAV is a
corruption of ZHIDESLAV and I registered it the the Novgorod Chronicles.
Ciao
Aldo

-----Messaggio originale-----
From: Anya Stickney
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 6:23 PM
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sig] Need help with a name meaning

Here's my understanding from modern Russian...

Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
which would mean good/happy.  So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.

(Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent.  But I don't
know if this was the case in period.)

Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.

Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name.  But you can
go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate.  But I
understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
usually go by only one name.

As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
Annya, and all of them valid.

Hope it helps,
Anya


On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <peterbenma@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Greetings!
>
> At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
> right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
>
> The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
> a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
>
> He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
> we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
>
> Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
> other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
> which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
> crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
>
> Apollonia
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I shoot off my hand too. Like an english longbow, the horsebow has no arrow rest
or shelf so  you shoou "around" the handle! Resultr in the arrow flexing more
than normal, or the tail waggle I described! Ziggy has my Grozier Tatar short
bow, so he will have a very current eval. I have thd Kassai Raven and it was
worth EVERY penny � paid!
'dok





------------------------------
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:11 PM EDT Ladie Lada wrote:

>I posted this question to FB as well. The best advice seems a Magyar bow.
>One person specifically recommends a kassai bow raven model, that he shoots.
>Looks like they all shoot off hand.
>
>Lada
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Sep 11, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Laura Munn <arathreel@...> wrote:
>
>> I shoot off my glove. They normally do not come with rests.
>>
>> -Katrusha
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
>>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I will probably need a new bow by next Pennsic.   Tell me about using the
>> horsebow: do you have an arrow rest or do you use a shooting glove?
>>
>> --Sfandra
>>
>> ******************
>> Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
>> O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
>> http://sfandra.webs.com
>> Never 'pearl' your butt.
>> ******************
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Laura Munn <arathreel@...>
>> To: sig@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows
>>
>>
>> I, as well, use a Mongolian horse bow. There are samples of that style bow
>> in period. And oh, they are a dream to shoot.
>>
>> -Katrusha
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Tatiana Golter <
>> littlegreensardine@...> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
>>> believe, a longbow.
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Tatiana
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
>>
>> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
>>
>> My baked goods:
>> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
>>
>> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
>> Artist
>> Writer
>> Baker
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
>>
>> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
>>
>> My baked goods:
>> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
>>
>> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
>> Artist
>> Writer
>> Baker
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
>
> I shoot off my hand too. Like an english longbow, the horsebow has no arrow
> rest or shelf so you shoou "around" the handle! Resultr in the arrow flexing
> more than normal, or the tail waggle I described!

Yes !  It's important to shoot arrows with the correct "spine" -- I've
seen too-light arrows explode coming out of the bow due to not being
able to withstand that flex.  I also hadn't realized before how the
weight/spine of the arrow effects your aim point (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer%27s_paradox for a decent
explanation).  Less of an issue with lighter poundage bows, but a good
reason not to mix/borrow arrows if you can avoid it -- although I
suppose a skilled archer would be able to adjust for the weight of the
arrow, same as adjusting for wind speed and direction... :^)

Kazimira

I'm still looking for submissions for the Fall Slovo.  Contact me
off-list if you have anything of relevance.

The deadline is October 1st, but is flexible with some advance notice.


Thanks,
Paul

Thank you so much.  I definitely want to help this client with a *Czech* name,
not a Russian one, but the resources you have shared do shed further light.
  Once I have had the time to thoroughly check them out, perhaps the right
information will surface.  Anyway, sincerely thanks for responding.

YIS,
*Michael FitzGeoffrey, Midhaven Pursuivant*

On 13 September 2012 05:23, Quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> This doesn't help you, but I found an interesting resource: a list of
> names in the back of the 13th century Codex Gigas, the names themselves are
> dated to 1594.
>
>
http://www.kb.se/codex-gigas/eng/Browse-the-Manuscript/Namnlangd/?&mode=1&page=6\
07#content(you have to zoom in a lot to see it.)
> For more information, see:
> http://www.kb.se/codex-gigas/eng/Long/texter/Additions/
>
> If it helps at all, the Chronica Boëmorum (Chronicle of Bohemians) seems
> to be the earliest source for Libuše, where it is spelled "Libussa".
> In:
> Berthold Bretholz. 1923. _Die Chronik der Böhmen des Cosmas von Prag_
> (Berlin), the name index at the back has the Latin form "Lubossa"
>
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00000683/images/index.html?id=0000068\
3&fip=193.174.98.30&no=&seite=368
>
> Our Paul Wickenden of Thanet's _Dictionary of Period Russian Names_
> mentions the same princess as:
> Libusa (f) -- Libusa, daughter of Krok. 670. [Khr 250]
> http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/l.html
>
> Makovi� ka is an interesting one... "Makovi� " seems awfully similar to a
> patronymic like "Ma_r_kovi� " or "descendant of Marko".
>
> As is, in Paul's dictionary s.n.:
> Makovich (Nikola Makovich Dragovich). 1454. [Mor 117]
> http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/ma.html
> Which can be feminized to Makovich_a_ (instead of -ka).
>
> The closest dated form I can see, to Libusa is "Mach", in 1052. So
> possibly Machovicha? But that is still 382 years apart. SENA wants elements
> to be 300 years apart.
>
> There is also the earlier "Malk-" from 970, which is right on 300 years,
> but may be too different from what the submitter wants.
>
> So <Libusa Machovicha> might be a Russian-ised medieval form of <Libuše
> Makovi� ka>? (I cannot figure out where that final -ka syllable comes from,
> sorry.) But for temporal consistency, she might have to try <Libusa
> Malkicha>?
>
> Hope that helps, please correct me if I'm barking up the wrong tree!
>
> ffride
>
> <<snip>>
>
> > My friends, I have a client who is seeking to register for her primary
> > persona name *Libuše Makovi� ka*. Mundanely, her grandmother’s surname
> > is Makovi� ka, and we have found the name *Libuše* is common enough in
> the
>
> > modern age, and known to be the name of a princess in Bohemian legend.
> <<snip>>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1. Zhyt- is not only living, but leaving means as well. Zhyto = wheat, жито.
But Bread-Glorious would be Zhitoslav, afa I can rely on my bits and pieces of 
Old Russian.
2) Zh is the English way of conveying the ж sound. Z (actually, Z with a
diacritic sign) is afair a Polish/ Czech variant of writing down the same sound.
Just try a web dictionary translate the word knife (nozh) into several Slavic
languages. Looks funny.
3)the root Zaits- means not а rabbit but a hare. Rabbit is Krolik.
4) no Jews with a T in the root. "Zhid" is just the calc of "Judah", while
Zhit-... see (1)
5) Dimitry is the older variant, dating back to the Greek name Demetrius.

Hope that helps.


Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:23:24 -0700 от Anya Stickney <anyas5@...>:
>
>
>


>



>Here's my understanding from modern Russian...
>
>
Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
>
which would mean good/happy.  So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
>
living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.
>
>
(Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent.  But I don't
>
know if this was the case in period.)
>
>
Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.
>
>
Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
>
person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
>
same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name.  But you can
>
go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate.  But I
>
understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
>
usually go by only one name.
>
>
As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
>
Annya, and all of them valid.
>
>
Hope it helps,
>
Anya
>
>
>
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <peterbenma@...> wrote:
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings!
>
>
>
> At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
>
> right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
>
>
>
> The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
>
> a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
>
>
>
> He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
>
> we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
>
>
>
> Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
>
> other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
>
> which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
>
> crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
>
>
>
> Apollonia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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