I don't know if any of you follow Mary Corbet's needlework blog, but the
last couple of posts might be of interest.  The featured projects are some
pearl embroidered mats designed by Irina Rudneva and embroidered by Larissa
Borodich.
http://www.needlenthread.com/2011/06/beadwork-inspiration-embroidered-mat.html
Irina has some incredible pearl embroidered icon covers she made on her site
http://irinajewel.com/en/pearl-embroidery/  She's apparently made an in
depth study of historic pearl embroidery.  I know I'm intrigued.

Ever to your Service,
Praksedys Turova doch'


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hah! As soon as someone holds forth I'll be happy to share!
'dok

On Thu Jun 16th, 2011 10:59 AM EDT Jennifer Nelson Kemp wrote:

>We make all of our bread at home and currently have a sourdough mother
>going...can you share the bread recipe?
>
>I can await the beer recipe.
>
>Ianuk
>
>On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Not at all! I'm. Working on an announcement concerning the Pennsic meeting
>> at Pennsic and some articles!
>>
>> Concerning the Magyar issue....would you mind doing a Slovo article talking
>> about the formation of SIG when rocks were soft and some of the traditions
>> that were formed back then and why? Could give context to the newer members?
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On Thu Jun 16th, 2011 5:40 AM EDT goldschp tds.net wrote:
>>
>> >Mordak
>> >
>> >Do you mind if I post this to Slovo?
>> >On Jun 15, 2011 10:11 PM, "Tim Nalley" <mordakus@...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I want to brew a beer using the ingrediemts for Russian black bread. I
>> >already habve a source for black bread sourdough yeast so I need the
>> >ingredients next. It'll be called:
>> >>
>> >> Tsar Ivan's Terribly Black Bread Ale!
>> >>
>> >> I'll break thr batch down into gallons and for the secondary
>> fermentation
>> >and season it with various period additives like honey, etc. Then at
>> Pennsic
>> >41 I'll have a tasting at the SIG meeting!!!
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> 'dok
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------------
>> >
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!

The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household.  The city of
Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full
of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute.  Most of the
people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.

The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
home, household.  This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
Domostroi.  "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
including children, servants and slaves.  So if you see your household as
being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
"yard" or "estate".  It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
extension, the people who live/work there.  These people would include
cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a
nice term if you see your household as a collection of
workshops/artisans.  On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
"dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars).  Hence,
it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
alternate titles list.

The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
word for friend, "drug".  These are the (relatively) close companions of a
prince or boyar.  They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
they were free to leave his service at will.  I think this term comes the
closest to the way most people set up their SCA households.  It is
especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for
their lord.

And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms.  You
can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
be "Dom Sfandry".  You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
Sfandra for this).

The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
(masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar.  Sfandrov
would be the patronymic form of Sfandr.  I admit that Sfandrov and
Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.

At your service,

Sofya

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------------------

Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
             ___
http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                 {o,o}
"Si no necare, sana."  "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
         (__(|
"Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                -^-^-`
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What about Hammered Goat (Forge and Brewery)? Its for my mancave....
'dok

Thanks Sofya!  


I was, after a weekend of research, leaning towards more of "Sfandra's Druzhina"
rather than any town-type structure.   I spent an interesting 2 hours reading
through the collected Precedents of the SCA College of Heraldry regarding
households, and yes, they do prefer terminology that references a group of
people, although they also allow structures like "House Of the Winged Goat"
based on english Inn names (Which strikes me as an odd dichotomy, but OK, I
didn't write the rules.....), plus a reread of Lay of Igor's Campaign and a few
other tales.  I don't know that I'll ever register the household name -- I'm
more interested in something period russian than SCA-registerable (given the
college of heralds have yet to accept certain eastern european symbols and
practices.... damn their anglo-centric hides ;-p  )


There was a passage in Vernadsky's "Kievan Rus" about the druzhina which really
made me think it would be a good word to use.  Vernadsky implied that service in
the druzhina was one of the few ways someone could improve their social
station.  Given that my household would theoretically consist of apprentices,
then that connotation of the word druzhina is appropriate.

I do very much like the ones you tossed out, and they're going on the list of
options!

Thanks,
Sfandra

******************
Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
http://sfandra.webs.com
Never 'pearl' your butt.
******************


________________________________
From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!

The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household.  The city of
Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full
of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute.  Most of the
people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.

The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
home, household.  This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
Domostroi.  "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
including children, servants and slaves.  So if you see your household as
being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
"yard" or "estate".  It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
extension, the people who live/work there.  These people would include
cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a
nice term if you see your household as a collection of
workshops/artisans.  On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
"dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars).  Hence,
it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
alternate titles list.

The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
word for friend, "drug".  These are the (relatively) close companions of a
prince or boyar.  They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
they were free to leave his service at will.  I think this term comes the
closest to the way most people set up their SCA households.  It is
especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for
their lord.

And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms.  You
can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
be "Dom Sfandry".  You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
Sfandra for this).

The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
(masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar.  Sfandrov
would be the patronymic form of Sfandr.  I admit that Sfandrov and
Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.

At your service,

Sofya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings!

I have just joined the group and I am interested in 12th - 14th century
Slovenian garb.  Does anyone know where I can start with research?

Hvala! (Thank-you)
Alojzia

http://milkywebs.com/wp-content/themes/MilkyWebsgreen2/yahoolinks.php

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
is a knight.  His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich.  Would these be correct
constructions for a household name?

Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii?  Can you even do
that construction?)

-- Vitasha

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!
>
> The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
> constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household. The city of
> Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was
> full
> of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute. Most of the
> people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
> hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.
>
> The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
> home, household. This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
> Domostroi. "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
> including children, servants and slaves. So if you see your household as
> being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
> A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
> "yard" or "estate". It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
> in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
> extension, the people who live/work there. These people would include
> cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be
> a
> nice term if you see your household as a collection of
> workshops/artisans. On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
> "dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
> particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
> up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars). Hence,
> it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
> alternate titles list.
>
> The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
> word for friend, "drug". These are the (relatively) close companions of a
> prince or boyar. They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
> they were free to leave his service at will. I think this term comes the
> closest to the way most people set up their SCA households. It is
> especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
> heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
> equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties
> for
> their lord.
>
> And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms. You
> can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
> be "Dom Sfandry". You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
> like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
> Sfandra for this).
>
> The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
> (masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar. Sfandrov
> would be the patronymic form of Sfandr. I admit that Sfandrov and
> Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.
>
> At your service,
>
> Sofya
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
> Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
> ___
> http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
> {o,o}
> "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
> (__(|
> "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
> -^-^-`
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As Sofya said:
> The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
> word for friend, "drug". These are the (relatively) close companions of a
> prince or boyar. They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
> they were free to leave his service at will. I think this term comes the
> closest to the way most people set up their SCA households. It is
> especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
> heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
> equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties
> for their lord.
 
So maybe Ilinii druzhina? 

Is the -ichi suffix usable?  Or is that more of a tribal/ethnic designator?  I'm
thinking of terms like "Radimichi", "Viatichi".  I don't know that I've ever
seen that suffix used for anything other than rather broad tribal or 'clan' like
designations.

Still pondering...
--Sfandra


******************
Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
http://sfandra.webs.com
Never 'pearl' your butt.
******************


________________________________
From: Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...>


My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
is a knight.  His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich.  Would these be correct
constructions for a household name?

Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii?  Can you even do
that construction?)

-- Vitasha

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!
SNIP

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If anyone is in the area or already planning on attending the EK Southern Region
War Practice, near Lehighton, PA, I will be presenting my History and
Development of Russian Icons.  The Event announcement webaddress is listed
below.

I can't think of a better place to present my class than at a site named The
Ukrainian Homestead!

YIS
Magdalena

http://www.eastkingdom.org/EventDetails.html?eid=2115

Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...

Liudmila, the absent








-----Original Message-----
From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com <sig@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 5:40 am
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian





Thanks Sofya!

I was, after a weekend of research, leaning towards more of "Sfandra's Druzhina"
rather than any town-type structure.   I spent an interesting 2 hours reading
through the collected Precedents of the SCA College of Heraldry regarding
households, and yes, they do prefer terminology that references a group of
people, although they also allow structures like "House Of the Winged Goat"
based on english Inn names (Which strikes me as an odd dichotomy, but OK, I
didn't write the rules.....), plus a reread of Lay of Igor's Campaign and a few
other tales.  I don't know that I'll ever register the household name -- I'm
more interested in something period russian than SCA-registerable (given the
college of heralds have yet to accept certain eastern european symbols and
practices.... damn their anglo-centric hides ;-p  )

There was a passage in Vernadsky's "Kievan Rus" about the druzhina which really
made me think it would be a good word to use.  Vernadsky implied that service in
the druzhina was one of the few ways someone could improve their social station.
Given that my household would theoretically consist of apprentices, then that
connotation of the word druzhina is appropriate.

I do very much like the ones you tossed out, and they're going on the list of
options!

Thanks,
Sfandra

******************
Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
http://sfandra.webs.com
Never 'pearl' your butt.
******************

________________________________
From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!

The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household.  The city of
Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full
of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute.  Most of the
people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.

The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
home, household.  This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
Domostroi.  "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
including children, servants and slaves.  So if you see your household as
being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
"yard" or "estate".  It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
extension, the people who live/work there.  These people would include
cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a
nice term if you see your household as a collection of
workshops/artisans.  On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
"dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars).  Hence,
it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
alternate titles list.

The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
word for friend, "drug".  These are the (relatively) close companions of a
prince or boyar.  They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
they were free to leave his service at will.  I think this term comes the
closest to the way most people set up their SCA households.  It is
especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for
their lord.

And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms.  You
can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
be "Dom Sfandry".  You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
Sfandra for this).

The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
(masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar.  Sfandrov
would be the patronymic form of Sfandr.  I admit that Sfandrov and
Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.

At your service,

Sofya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often used in
this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case, Il'ino
Podvor'e.
Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.

Liudmila









-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian


My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
is a knight.  His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich.  Would these be correct
constructions for a household name?

Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii?  Can you even do
that construction?)

-- Vitasha






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://themenacetosobriety.com/blog/wp-content/themes/simplex/yahoolinks.php

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I really, really like Sfandrina Druzhina!

Cheers,
Lady Patricia of Trakai










-----Original Message-----
From: Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2011 2:03 am
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian




  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...



Liudmila, the absent

















-----Original Message-----

From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>

To: sig@yahoogroups.com <sig@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 5:40 am

Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian











Thanks Sofya!



I was, after a weekend of research, leaning towards more of "Sfandra's Druzhina"

rather than any town-type structure.   I spent an interesting 2 hours reading

through the collected Precedents of the SCA College of Heraldry regarding

households, and yes, they do prefer terminology that references a group of

people, although they also allow structures like "House Of the Winged Goat"

based on english Inn names (Which strikes me as an odd dichotomy, but OK, I

didn't write the rules.....), plus a reread of Lay of Igor's Campaign and a few

other tales.  I don't know that I'll ever register the household name -- I'm

more interested in something period russian than SCA-registerable (given the

college of heralds have yet to accept certain eastern european symbols and

practices.... damn their anglo-centric hides ;-p  )



There was a passage in Vernadsky's "Kievan Rus" about the druzhina which really

made me think it would be a good word to use.  Vernadsky implied that service in

the druzhina was one of the few ways someone could improve their social station.

Given that my household would theoretically consist of apprentices, then that

connotation of the word druzhina is appropriate.



I do very much like the ones you tossed out, and they're going on the list of

options!



Thanks,

Sfandra



******************

Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova

O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom

http://sfandra.webs.com

Never 'pearl' your butt.

******************



________________________________

From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>

To: sig@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:39 PM

Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian



Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!



The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"

constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household.  The city of

Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full

of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute.  Most of the

people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a

hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.



The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,

home, household.  This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the

Domostroi.  "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents

including children, servants and slaves.  So if you see your household as

being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.

A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",

"yard" or "estate".  It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built

in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by

extension, the people who live/work there.  These people would include

cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a

nice term if you see your household as a collection of

workshops/artisans.  On the other hand, it is the origin of the term

"dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",

particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make

up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars).  Hence,

it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA

alternate titles list.



The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the

word for friend, "drug".  These are the (relatively) close companions of a

prince or boyar.  They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although

they were free to leave his service at will.  I think this term comes the

closest to the way most people set up their SCA households.  It is

especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the

heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian

equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for

their lord.



And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms.  You

can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and

be "Dom Sfandry".  You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something

like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of

Sfandra for this).



The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin

(masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar.  Sfandrov

would be the patronymic form of Sfandr.  I admit that Sfandrov and

Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.



At your service,



Sofya



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings from Sofya!

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

>
>  I think that "podvor'e" was often used in this context, and not "dvor,"
> but have to look it up. In that case, Il'ino Podvor'e.
>
  I can find only a limited number of period examples of podvor'e in
Sreznevskii's Dictionary.  It's not a term I'm familiar with.   Let's see,
Sreznevskii defines it as "a house with court (dvor) and courtyard
structures, country estate, residence".  Ozhigov defines it as an inn/hostel
(meaning 1), or a type of hotel intended for clerics (meaning 2), or a court
and vegetable garden on the property of a rural home.  So that works.

On the other hand, Sreznevskii has dozens of examples of dvor' from period
documents.  Along with many terms (such as dvorianin, dvornik, dvornyi,
dvorcheskii, and podvor'e, itself) derived from it.

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

>
>  Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
> Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often used
> in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
> Il'ino Podvor'e.
> Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
>

I would have thought that genitive case would be used here, rather than a
patronymic form (which is related to genitive case, but not the same).  But
I'm not a native Russian speaker, of course.

Genitive case forms:
Dom/Dvor Il'i (I'm used to putting the owner's name last but, of course,
that's flexible)
Dom/Dvor Aleksandrovicha (of the son of Aleksander) or Aleksandrovichov
(plural - of the sons of Aleksander, the Aleksandrovichi)

Adjectival forms:
Il'inskii Dom/Dvor (Il'inskaia Druzhina)
Aleksandrovskii Dom/Dvor  (Aleksandrovskaia Druzhina)

At your service,

Sofya

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------------------

Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
             ___
http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                 {o,o}
"Si no necare, sana."  "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
         (__(|
"Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                -^-^-`
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
Druzhina Sfandri

Sofya

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

>
>  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
>
> Liudmila, the absent
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings from Sofya!

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

>
>   You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something like "Sfandriiskii
> Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of Sfandra for this).
>

It looks like the adjectival form of Sfandra would actually be
Sfandrinskii/aia so:

Sfandrinskii Dvor/Dom and
Sfandrinskaia Druzhina

At your service,

Sofya

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------------------

Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
             ___
http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                 {o,o}
"Si no necare, sana."  "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
         (__(|
"Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                -^-^-`
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No, I only just thought of asking when I saw this post.
--Vitasha


On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
> Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often used
> in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
> Il'ino Podvor'e.
> Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
>
> Liudmila
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...>
> To: sig@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 7:08 pm
> Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian
>
> My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
> is a knight. His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich. Would these be correct
> constructions for a household name?
>
> Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
> Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii? Can you even do
> that construction?)
>
> -- Vitasha
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://donp.com/pcmc/yahoolinks.php

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pushkarev's Dictionary of Russian Historical Terms has:

*Podvorie* - "a DVOR (household) in general, esp. a city household that
belonged to an outside owner (like a monsatary or rich land owner)"

*podvornik* - "a person who lived and worked in another's household"

*dvor* - "Household; homestead; yard; court.  In the chronicles dvor
sometimes meant the prince's military service men collectively."

I believe this differentiates dvor and podvorie significantly, and supports
dvor as better in the context of an SCA household.

Kazimir, Meridies


On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Greetings from Sofya!
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think that "podvor'e" was often used in this context, and not "dvor,"
> > but have to look it up. In that case, Il'ino Podvor'e.
> >
> I can find only a limited number of period examples of podvor'e in
> Sreznevskii's Dictionary. It's not a term I'm familiar with. Let's see,
> Sreznevskii defines it as "a house with court (dvor) and courtyard
> structures, country estate, residence". Ozhigov defines it as an inn/hostel
> (meaning 1), or a type of hotel intended for clerics (meaning 2), or a
> court
> and vegetable garden on the property of a rural home. So that works.
>
> On the other hand, Sreznevskii has dozens of examples of dvor' from period
> documents. Along with many terms (such as dvorianin, dvornik, dvornyi,
> dvorcheskii, and podvor'e, itself) derived from it.
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
> > Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often
> used
> > in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
> > Il'ino Podvor'e.
> > Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
> >
>
> I would have thought that genitive case would be used here, rather than a
> patronymic form (which is related to genitive case, but not the same). But
> I'm not a native Russian speaker, of course.
>
> Genitive case forms:
> Dom/Dvor Il'i (I'm used to putting the owner's name last but, of course,
> that's flexible)
> Dom/Dvor Aleksandrovicha (of the son of Aleksander) or Aleksandrovichov
> (plural - of the sons of Aleksander, the Aleksandrovichi)
>
> Adjectival forms:
> Il'inskii Dom/Dvor (Il'inskaia Druzhina)
> Aleksandrovskii Dom/Dvor (Aleksandrovskaia Druzhina)
>
> At your service,
>
> Sofya
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
> Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
> ___
> http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
> {o,o}
> "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
> (__(|
> "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
> -^-^-`
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking
for trouble....
 
As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
"Look at me, I'm Sfandra D..."

I like 'dvor'.   Would it be Sfandriskii Dvor?

--Sfandra
 

******************

From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
Druzhina Sfandri

Sofya

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

>
>  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
>
> Liudmila, the absent
>


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Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow, helps if I read ALL the emails before replying!
 
I really like Sfandrinskaia Druzhina...  And it has the bonus of probably being
unpronounceable to everyone in my household.
 
--Sfandra

******************


From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking
for trouble....
 
As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
"Look at me, I'm Sfandra D..."

I like 'dvor'.   Would it be Sfandriskii Dvor?

--Sfandra
 

******************

From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
Druzhina Sfandri

Sofya

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

>
>  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
>
> Liudmila, the absent
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, I have been lurking for some time, but I haven't had too many questions,
or information for answers so I have been mainly quiet.
I found an interesting link today, not sure if anyone else has found it, but i
though i would share.
  http://www.bibliotekar.ru/ornamenty/index.htm  The page is in Russian, I
believe, but the links on it are of types of patterns for what i would assume
embroidery, or something else. I haven't had time to go though and translate the
writing on the page yet. Off to google translate now.


Lady Aleksandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings,

I'm re-working and editing my Conversational Russian class for Pennsic.
I try to add new things each year i teach the class.
I'm looking for recommendations from Rus/Slavic persona Scadians on what would
you like to learn in such a class. Specific phrases, expressions, words?
General recommendations?

Thank you all in advance for your input

  Lada

Oooooh...
SHINY!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Which way to The Spotted Pony?

Opulence is not extyravagance (alt. "wasteful")

'dok

On Wed Jun 29th, 2011 4:27 PM EDT Yevgeniya Pechenaya wrote:

>Greetings,
>
>I'm re-working and editing my Conversational Russian class for Pennsic.
>I try to add new things each year i teach the class.
>I'm looking for recommendations from Rus/Slavic persona Scadians on what would
>you like to learn in such a class. Specific phrases, expressions, words?
>General recommendations?
>
>Thank you all in advance for your input
>
> Lada
>
>Oooooh...
>SHINY!
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Greetings from Sofya!

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:

> What about Hammered Goat (Forge and Brewery)? Its for my mancave....
> 'dok


I didn't forget about you, 'Dok.  I just needed some time to devote to the
problem.  The problem is that "hammered" doesn't have the same double
meaning in Russian as it does in English.  No matter what angle I go at it,
no matter what synonyms I pursue, I'm just not finding a very good Russian
translation.

Goat = kozyol (male)
Drunken = p'yanyj, napivshijsya
Smashed = vdryzg p'yanyj or vdrebezgi p'yanyj  — blind / dead / stiff drunk
Hammer = molot;
To hammer = bit', udaryat';
hammered/forged = kovanyj
*to forge = kovat', vykovyvat'*, chekanit';
a smithy = kuznitsa, adj. kuznechnyj;
beaten/broken down = razbityj

The best I can come up with is the alliterative "Kuznechnyi Kozyol" which
means "smithy goat" but doesn't include the brewery angle, unless you figure
that a goat that will eat anything will likely drink anything also.  Same
problem with Kovanyj Kozyol - hammered/forged goat.

;-)

Sofya

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------------------

Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
             ___
http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                 {o,o}
"Si no necare, sana."  "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
         (__(|
"Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                -^-^-`
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thought this might be useful for people interested in medieval Poland.

"Coronations: Medieval and Early Modern Monarchic Ritual" edited by János M.
Bak, is freely available online here:
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft367nb2f3;query=;brand=ucp\
ress

and chapter 9 discusses the various ceremonial parts in the coronation of a new
ruler in medieval Poland. (At the very least, it may provide some inspiration
for ceremonial happenings in the SCA?)

But wait, I need the last part for my personal badge for my period pennion!!!
Done in gold laidwork and pearling, of course!!!!
Thx,
'dok

On Wed Jun 29th, 2011 9:56 PM EDT Lisa Kies wrote:

>Greetings from Sofya!
>
>On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
>
>> What about Hammered Goat (Forge and Brewery)? Its for my mancave....
>> 'dok
>
>
>I didn't forget about you, 'Dok.  I just needed some time to devote to the
>problem.  The problem is that "hammered" doesn't have the same double
>meaning in Russian as it does in English.  No matter what angle I go at it,
>no matter what synonyms I pursue, I'm just not finding a very good Russian
>translation.
>
>Goat = kozyol (male)
>Drunken = p'yanyj, napivshijsya
>Smashed = vdryzg p'yanyj or vdrebezgi p'yanyj  — blind / dead / stiff drunk
>Hammer = molot;
>To hammer = bit', udaryat';
>hammered/forged = kovanyj
>*to forge = kovat', vykovyvat'*, chekanit';
>a smithy = kuznitsa, adj. kuznechnyj;
>beaten/broken down = razbityj
>
>The best I can come up with is the alliterative "Kuznechnyi Kozyol" which
>means "smithy goat" but doesn't include the brewery angle, unless you figure
>that a goat that will eat anything will likely drink anything also.  Same
>problem with Kovanyj Kozyol - hammered/forged goat.
>
>;-)
>
>Sofya
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------
>
>Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
>Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
>            ___
>http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
>                {o,o}
>"Si no necare, sana."  "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
>        (__(|
>"Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
>               -^-^-`
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---------------------------------------
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Cool, I hadn't seen that yet!

Thought this might be useful for people interested in medieval Poland.
"Coronations: Medieval and Early Modern Monarchic Ritual" edited by János M.
Bak, is freely available online here:
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft367nb2f3;query=;brand=ucp\
ress
and chapter 9 discusses the various ceremonial parts in the coronation of a
new ruler in medieval Poland. (At the very least, it may provide some
inspiration for ceremonial happenings in the SCA?)
--
Zygmunt Nadratowski
"Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the
worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order"
Want to learn to fight rapier or rattan? Ask me and I'll come & teach!
SCA Polish Culture Resource: http://www.plcommonwealth.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you're traveling east through central Ohio along I-70 to Pennsic in a couple
weeks, you'll want to read this review!
'dok