Excellent job, Your Excellency.

This is a very long term project I am planning as well - a Bathory-era
hussar kit.

I do have a few questions however.

What kind of saddle are you using? If it's not a home made hussar saddle,
which is closest to the ones the hussars used then, and why did you make the
choices you did?**
How did you attach the wing to the cantle?

** - I have heard, from members of our EQ community here, and in Trimaris &
Atlantia [non-SCAdians, that's the Midwest and the areas stretching from
Georgia, Fla., Md, etc - see http://www.sca.org/geography/welcome.html], that
the McClellan is very close to photos I have of extant hussar saddles. But
after my own examination of photos of extant saddles, I think that a
Peruvian saddle is actually much closer. What do you think?

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. :)
--
Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
"To rip the ugly, false, and weak from my soul and hurl it into hell. To
pull the powerful, intrepid, and unstoppable from within and wear it like a
tabard." - D. Sebastian
"Some day I hope to be the man my kids believe me to be and the man my Wife
deserves."
Servant of His Grace Sir Dag Thorgrimsson and Master Mordok Rostovskogo
SCA Polish Culture Resource: http://www.plcommonwealth.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please excuse my ignorance what is Dmitri I know of people with the name Dmitri.
Is it a event? Thank you for understanding

Ed Carthell
Structural Designer
Phone (503) 553-8387

Your Grace, that is an awesome kit! Think your persona
will participate in a little armed tourism east with
Dmitri in a couple years? My comrades and I were just
wondering....
YIS,
Boiarin Mordok Timofeivich Rostovskogo, OL, MK

Thank you I Richard I have been working on this kit for years and it is now
coming together.  I could not pass up taking the photos in the snow we had last
week end.  Got up to find 8 in on the ground Saturdays morning.

Edward Ean Anderson

Ed Carthell
Structural Designer
Phone (503) 553-8387

Those are brilliant your Earlship.

You have captured the 'Ren era' hussar with the single mounted wing.

Well done! Thank you for posting.

Richard

Just a pun on my Russianess in this sea of Noble
Poles! The False Dmitri who led the Poles into Russia
during The Time of Truobles in 1604! I watched an
excellent movie about those times at Zigmunts a few
weeks ago!
'dok
--- "Carthell, Ed (B/TEC Ltd.)"
<ed.carthell@...> wrote:

> Please excuse my ignorance what is Dmitri I know of
> people with the name Dmitri.  Is it a event? Thank
> you for understanding
>
> Ed Carthell
> Structural Designer
> Phone (503) 553-8387
>
> Your Grace, that is an awesome kit! Think your
> persona
> will participate in a little armed tourism east with
> Dmitri in a couple years? My comrades and I were
> just
> wondering....
> YIS,
> Boiarin Mordok Timofeivich Rostovskogo, OL, MK
>
>


Best Regards,
'dok
"Dreams are only the realities of yesterday waiting to happen"


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
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The small text under the title is 'Pod redakcj{a,} i ze wst{e,}pem
Witolda Taszyckiego.'

(Yahoo groups gets picky about the diacritics, {a,} is a-ogonek, {e,}
is e-ogonek.)

So, poltran.com says it is 'Edited by and with admission Witolda
Taszyckiego'
I'd be tempted to add in 'with admission of,' which would put it in
the genitive case.
I found a website with some information about how names change in the
male, singular, genetive case, and it does seem that Witold would
become Witolda. The -ego ending of Taszyckiego also looks like it's
the male, single, genitive of Taszycki.
( http://www.halgal.com/langofrecord.html )

Hope that helps, but as I've said numerous times in this thread I know
very little about Polish grammar. I just know where all the
interesting books are kept. :)

~Asfridhr

--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Suzanne" <sovagris@...> wrote:
>
> BTW, how & where does the author's name appear on the title page?
If it's printed as "The
> Dictionary of Old Polish Personal Names, of Witold Taszycki"
(meaning compiled by W. T.)
> then would it be in the whaddaya-call-it... generative case?  And
thus spelled as
> Rosie/Nawojka has said, but meaning the name as given in the first
citation?
>
> Sorry, mundanely I'm a librarian and my cataloger's antennae flipped
up on this one.  ;-)
>
> Susanna

"I just know where all the
> interesting books are kept. :)
>
> ~Asfridhr"

Now that's a tag line if ever I heard one!

Thanks for the explanation -- I thought it was something like that, but couldn't
for the life
of me remember the proper name for that case.  (OK, so it's been, like, 30 years
since I
was at university.)

I feel better now.  ;-)
Susanna

--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
>
> The small text under the title is 'Pod redakcj{a,} i ze wst{e,}pem
> Witolda Taszyckiego.'
>
> (Yahoo groups gets picky about the diacritics, {a,} is a-ogonek, {e,}
> is e-ogonek.)
>
> So, poltran.com says it is 'Edited by and with admission Witolda
> Taszyckiego'
> I'd be tempted to add in 'with admission of,' which would put it in
> the genitive case.
> I found a website with some information about how names change in the
> male, singular, genetive case, and it does seem that Witold would
> become Witolda. The -ego ending of Taszyckiego also looks like it's
> the male, single, genitive of Taszycki.
> ( http://www.halgal.com/langofrecord.html )
>
> Hope that helps, but as I've said numerous times in this thread I know
> very little about Polish grammar. I just know where all the
> interesting books are kept. :)
>
> ~Asfridhr
>
> --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Suzanne" <sovagris@> wrote:
> >
> > BTW, how & where does the author's name appear on the title page?
> If it's printed as "The
> > Dictionary of Old Polish Personal Names, of Witold Taszycki"
> (meaning compiled by W. T.)
> > then would it be in the whaddaya-call-it... generative case?  And
> thus spelled as
> > Rosie/Nawojka has said, but meaning the name as given in the first
> citation?
> >
> > Sorry, mundanely I'm a librarian and my cataloger's antennae flipped
> up on this one.  ;-)
> >
> > Susanna
>

Interesting....  I'm not familiar with the name "Ilza" (if that's
what it is).  Do you know what it means?  (I'm guessing the title is
"A Long Time Ago in whatever-it-is".)  And I think I'm hearing
Russian versus Polish -- any thoughts from those of you who know more
than I do??

Just curious,
Susanna

Magnificent.  And some of us would like to know more about your horses, too. 
:-)

Susanna

--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Carthell, Ed (B/TEC Ltd.)" <ed.carthell@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you I Richard I have been working on this kit for years and it is now
coming
together.  I could not pass up taking the photos in the snow we had last week
end.  Got up
to find 8 in on the ground Saturdays morning.
>
> Edward Ean Anderson
>
> Ed Carthell
> Structural Designer
> Phone (503) 553-8387
>
> Those are brilliant your Earlship.
>
> You have captured the 'Ren era' hussar with the single mounted wing.
>
> Well done! Thank you for posting.
>
> Richard
>

Ahhh!  Equestrians!
The Barony of Endless Hills in AEthelmearc (northeasten PA around
Scranton) has developed an equestrian company and we will be hosting
the first AEthelmearc Kingdom Equestrian Champion competition this
year, the weekend of May 30- June 1st.

We'll be holding it at a fairgrounds with a very nice dedicated
equestrian arena and gorgeous stall barn.

Our soon to be Majesties are Mongol and request equestrian and
archery whenever possible. Along with the usual heavy melee and
fencing, this event, Melee Madness, will be packed with 'things
martial', equestrian games, torchlight archery, lots of melees, etc.

Please check out the event announcement at:
http://www.endlesshills.aethelmearc.net/index_files/meleemadness.htm

It would be SO nice to have a Hussar or two there to represent us
Slavs ;-)

And if anyone wants to merchant, I'm merchant coordinator :-D
Maria P  (Polish fabric merchant)


Linda@...
http://www.classactfabrics.com

Thank you for your complements.  The saddle that you see is one of the Spanish
saddles "Portuguesa" I was able to get it on eBay. It was not that expensive. 
It is the same saddle that was used in the 16th and 17th c. I have seen many
paintings with that type of saddle in them.  If you get one, I recommend taking
it apart and checking the cinch and stirrups attachment points. I had the
stirrups attachments fail in a champion's tournament and cost me the tournament.
I agree after seeing many saddles while I was in Poland.  I have many photos
that I am working on trying to sort and post.   I attached a brass holder to the
back of the cantle that holds the wing. It is slips fit so that I can mount then
have the wing put on because mounting with the wing is very difficult to say the
least.

Advice keep working and having fun that is all that matters.

Are you going to be and the west cost any time in the future?  I was able to
view and take photos of the Stockholm roll but I cannot put them up or share
them.  However, you could see them if you are going to be out here. They are
amazing and the colors and details are great.  It was amazing to be able to view
the roll up close with glass or things in the way.  That was the greatest moment
of the trip to be allowed in the back room and see it.

Ed Carthell
Structural Designer
Phone (503) 553-8387


Excellent job, Your Excellency.

This is a very long term project I am planning as well - a Bathory-era
hussar kit.

I do have a few questions however.

What kind of saddle are you using? If it's not a home made hussar saddle,
which is closest to the ones the hussars used then, and why did you make the
choices you did?**
How did you attach the wing to the cantle?

** - I have heard, from members of our EQ community here, and in Trimaris &
Atlantia [non-SCAdians, that's the Midwest and the areas stretching from
Georgia, Fla., Md, etc - see http://www.sca.org/geography/welcome.html], that
the McClellan is very close to photos I have of extant hussar saddles. But
after my own examination of photos of extant saddles, I think that a
Peruvian saddle is actually much closer. What do you think?

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. :)
--
Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski

The photos are great!!

  I am new to the group. ( just got and lost my snail mail letter, think
my number was 714) me and my lady Kahtarzyna Bathory, are new to the
group. it is good to see other Hussar.
  I will down load some of our pics in a Calantir folder. Our little
group does Ren fairs and SCA.

Hello Susanna,

I posted the name in a Polish Language group.  Should have the def in
a day or two.

Richard

--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne <sovagris@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting....  I'm not familiar with the name "Ilza" (if that's
> what it is).  Do you know what it means?  (I'm guessing the title
is
> "A Long Time Ago in whatever-it-is".)  And I think I'm hearing
> Russian versus Polish -- any thoughts from those of you who know
more
> than I do??
>
> Just curious,
> Susanna

http://www.smoczakompania.pl/film/

This link should go to the official move website.
I do not know geography well enough to find Ilza on a map.

Richard

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/PL/55/Ilza.html
I'm guessing that this is Ruthenia? It looks to far
east for Selesia.


--- Richard <tinbasher1960@...> wrote:

> --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne <sovagris@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting....  I'm not familiar with the name
> "Ilza" (if that's
> > what it is).  Do you know what it means?  (I'm
> guessing the title
> is
> > "A Long Time Ago in whatever-it-is".)  And I think
> I'm hearing
> > Russian versus Polish -- any thoughts from those
> of you who know
> more
> > than I do??
> >
> > Just curious,
> > Susanna
>
> http://www.smoczakompania.pl/film/
>
> This link should go to the official move website.
> I do not know geography well enough to find Ilza on
> a map.
>
> Richard
>
>
>


Best Regards,
'dok
"Dreams are only the realities of yesterday waiting to happen"


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
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A musician friend has contracted to perform at a medieval fair this
summer.  Her persona is a 15th century English peasant.  She has garb;
unfortunately by this summer she's going to be 7 or 8 months pregnant.
  Any suggestions for modifying existing garb or for something new?  I
know this is sort of a vague question, but I think my daughter has
volunteered me to be her seamstress, so I want to be prepared with
suggestions.

Susannah

My best friend looked smashing all last year when she was pregnant.
Please see her website
http://web.mac.com/megatrope/iWeb/Personal/My%20Work.html   Funny
thing is...I took most of the pictures.

Ianuk

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 3:39 PM, susannah53 <susannah53@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A musician friend has contracted to perform at a medieval fair this
>  summer. Her persona is a 15th century English peasant. She has garb;
>  unfortunately by this summer she's going to be 7 or 8 months pregnant.
>  Any suggestions for modifying existing garb or for something new? I
>  know this is sort of a vague question, but I think my daughter has
>  volunteered me to be her seamstress, so I want to be prepared with
>  suggestions.
>
>  Susannah
>
>

--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer Nelson Kemp" <lady.ianuk@...>
wrote:
>
> My best friend looked smashing all last year when she was pregnant.
> Please see her website
> http://web.mac.com/megatrope/iWeb/Personal/My%20Work.html   Funny
> thing is...I took most of the pictures.
>
> Ianuk

Wow!  Nice work.  Please tell me about the (patterns?  emblems?) that
look like 'stars'.  Also, the 'saying' at the bottem of  the garb.

Richard

you'll have to email mistress cecilia specifically about that but
itsosty 14th century cotehardies and 15th century gowns. I think that
her site has some of her documentation and class handouts for the
clothing.

Ianuk
On 4/5/08, Richard <tinbasher1960@...> wrote:
> --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer Nelson Kemp" <lady.ianuk@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > My best friend looked smashing all last year when she was pregnant.
> > Please see her website
> > http://web.mac.com/megatrope/iWeb/Personal/My%20Work.html   Funny
> > thing is...I took most of the pictures.
> >
> > Ianuk
>
> Wow!  Nice work.  Please tell me about the (patterns?  emblems?) that
> look like 'stars'.  Also, the 'saying' at the bottem of  the garb.
>
> Richard
>
>

Hey, this came across the East Kingdom list, so FYI...

--Sfandra

Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:36:44 -0400From: "Marla
Lecin" <mlecin@...>Subject: [EK] events &
meetings at PennsicTo: "East Kingdom"
<sca-east@...>Message-ID:<2830abd30804051136g7eb3422bpa4d0d4e29baaaab9@mai\
l.gmail.com>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Greetings to all citizens of the East! In the run-up
to Pennsic, information is being compiled for
thewebsite and the on-site booklet. One thing we
feature is a schedule of meetings of Known World
andKingdom groups. In the past this has included Known
World Officers'meetings, East Kingdom officers
meetings, Guild meetings, a Librariansmeeting, Scribal
gatherings, Heralds' parties, Teen parties, and
SCAHistory Night. If you are planning such a
get-together at Pennsic, please let meknow, so that it
can be added to the schedule! Meetings to be held
inPennsic University tents have to be scheduled
through the
University(pennsicwar.org/penn37/PENNU/pennu.html)
In Service,Jessa d'Avondale

******************
Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
Haus Von Drakenklaue
Kingdom of the East
******************
Never 'pearl' your butt.


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
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I need some help on finding documentations for a Bohemian by-name and I
was hoping someone would be able to point me in to the right direction.

The by-name is Čermák. (Cermak)

Thank you

Andrew

In my ever expanding quest to find things related to the
Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current Ukrainian area...
I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of early pictures of lutes:
http://torban.org/mamai/index.html

One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kiev.
It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few months ago in the
clothing post.

-Kataryna
(Very happy to know the flute is definitely in use by the culture at
the time.... now to see if I can pull some possible SCA acceptable
music from the Ukrainian language side of the equation...)

Are you interested in the meaning of the byname, or in the sound?
(Websters online says it means Robin, as in the little bird.)

When I go into uni tomorrow I'll look at some books in the library for
you. :)

~Asfridhr

--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Van Hassen" <adhazen1974@...> wrote:
>
> I need some help on finding documentations for a Bohemian by-name and I
> was hoping someone would be able to point me in to the right direction.
>
> The by-name is Čermák. (Cermak)
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
>

Have you been able to identify the saint that seems to
be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
--Sfandra

--- Kataryna Dragonweaver
<kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:

> In my ever expanding quest to find things related to
> the
> Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
> Ukrainian area...
> I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
> early pictures of lutes:
> http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
>
> One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia
> Cathedral in Kiev.
> It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
> months ago in the
> clothing post.
>
> -Kataryna
> (Very happy to know the flute is definitely in use
> by the culture at
> the time.... now to see if I can pull some possible
> SCA acceptable
> music from the Ukrainian language side of the
> equation...)
>

******************
Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
Haus Von Drakenklaue
Kingdom of the East
******************
Never 'pearl' your butt.


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

Hello,     My name is Bryan Douglas. I have first came in contact with
the SCA in 1982. I have moved around a lot, spending the most time in
Lubbock TX, SanAntonieo TX, San Fransisco Cal, And Springfield Mo.    In
my years I have jumped from Persona to Persona, Their is just so much
cool stuff out there. Now for the Past 2 plus years I have been Wiktor
Kostka a 1577 Hussar, from a Transylvania Saxon tribe, near what is now
Hungary and Croatia.     I think I have finally found a persona that I
can stick with. I first thought of Hussar in the late 80, my Great Grand
Knight was Hussar. I just could not get into it with out a horse. Now,
for the past 3 years I have started doing Equestrian stuff. It is too
expensive to change garb and persona for myself and my horse so I may be
pinned to this persona by my pocket book.    My Lady IS Transylvania
Saxon. And she is my center, thou new to the SCA she is jumping in with
both feet.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am interested in its meaning and sound as well as history of its
origins. I would like to it as my by-name in the SCA, so I am looking
for documentation of it being used pre-1500's.

It was also my fraternal grandmother's maiden name as well. Sadly I
don't know much of that side of my family. My parents divorced when I
was a wee lad. So for personal side I am looking for my "roots" per
say. I do know my grandmother's full name (Stephine Josephine Cermak)
and she was from Puchov.

All your help is very much appreciated.

IYS
Andrew


--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
>
> Are you interested in the meaning of the byname, or in the sound?
> (Websters online says it means Robin, as in the little bird.)
>
> When I go into uni tomorrow I'll look at some books in the library
for
> you. :)
>
> ~Asfridhr
>
> --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Van Hassen" <adhazen1974@>
wrote:
> >
> > I need some help on finding documentations for a Bohemian by-name
and I
> > was hoping someone would be able to point me in to the right
direction.
> >
> > The by-name is Čermák. (Cermak)
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Andrew
> >
>

Thanks, and done.

Margarita

Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:                             Hey, this came
across the East Kingdom list, so FYI...

  --Sfandra

  Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:36:44 -0400From: "Marla
  Lecin" <mlecin@...>Subject: [EK] events &
  meetings at PennsicTo: "East Kingdom"
 
<sca-east@...>Message-ID:<2830abd30804051136g7eb3422bpa4d0d4e29baaaab9@mai\
l.gmail.com>Content-Type:
  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

  Greetings to all citizens of the East! In the run-up
  to Pennsic, information is being compiled for
  thewebsite and the on-site booklet. One thing we
  feature is a schedule of meetings of Known World
  andKingdom groups. In the past this has included Known
  World Officers'meetings, East Kingdom officers
  meetings, Guild meetings, a Librariansmeeting, Scribal
  gatherings, Heralds' parties, Teen parties, and
  SCAHistory Night. If you are planning such a
  get-together at Pennsic, please let meknow, so that it
  can be added to the schedule! Meetings to be held
  inPennsic University tents have to be scheduled
  through the
  University(pennsicwar.org/penn37/PENNU/pennu.html)
  In Service,Jessa d'Avondale

  ******************
  Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
  KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
  Haus Von Drakenklaue
  Kingdom of the East
  ******************
  Never 'pearl' your butt.

  __________________________________________________________
  You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
  http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com







---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
> early pictures of lutes:
> http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
>
> One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia
> Cathedral in Kiev.
> It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
> months ago in the
> clothing post.
>
> -Kataryna


De-lurking for a moment...
Do you happen to know off-hand when those pictures
were painted?
Because the lutes seem to have carved and inset roses
in the sound holes.  They sort of bear a resemblance
to "parchment roses", and I've only seen those in
later period Spanish and Italian lutes.
(Just thought it was interesting...)
Fionnuala

the problem
  with comforting illusions
  is that someone else
  ends up footing the bill
  for your comfort.


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

I was pondering that very question, myself.  I suspect that it's King David who
was famous for his musical talents.

Sofya

>------- Original Message -------
>
>Have you been able to identify the saint that seems to
be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
--Sfandra

--- Kataryna Dragonweaver
<kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:

> In my ever expanding quest to find things related to
> the
> Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
> Ukrainian area...
> I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
> early pictures of lutes:
> http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
>
> One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia
> Cathedral in Kiev.
> It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
> months ago in the
> clothing post.
>
> -Kataryna
> (Very happy to know the flute is definitely in use
> by the culture at
> the time.... now to see if I can pull some possible
> SCA acceptable
> music from the Ukrainian language side of the
> equation...)
>

******************
Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
Haus Von Drakenklaue
Kingdom of the East
******************
Never 'pearl' your butt.


________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Possible.  Is there a connection between King David
and playing music while someone is prepared for
burial?  Because that's what I'm seeing here: it's the
same guy, over and over, playing the lute while an
angel prepares someone's body....
--Sfandra

--- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:

> I was pondering that very question, myself.  I
> suspect that it's King David who was famous for his
> musical talents.
>
> Sofya
>
> >------- Original Message -------
> >
> >Have you been able to identify the saint that seems
> to
> be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
> --Sfandra
>
> --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
> <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:
>
> > In my ever expanding quest to find things related
> to
> > the
> > Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
> > Ukrainian area...
> > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
> > early pictures of lutes:
> > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
> >
> > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint
> Sophia
> > Cathedral in Kiev.
> > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
> > months ago in the
> > clothing post.
> >


******************
Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
Haus Von Drakenklaue
Kingdom of the East
******************
Never 'pearl' your butt.


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
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Andreas,
I'm not an expert at all on Bohemian or Czech names, but I've had a
little luck with looking at books.

I only say a little because I have found 'Černák' (from černá; black,
adjective) as a byname, but not Čermák (robin, noun). But it seems to
be that one little letter that makes all the difference.

If Alastair is still on the list, would he know how likely it is that
the n may be substituted for an m in pronouncing the two words? Would
they be good ingredients for a tongue twister?

Here is the scant information I've found on Černák, I hope it helps.

Dobrava Moldanová "Naše příjmení" (Mladá Fronta Praha, 1983)

p.53
Čermák, - it's there, but no dated examples!
Černa, - 1052, Cerna
Černáč, Černák, Čerňáč.
- 1383, Johannes Czrnak,
- 1409, Černák z Strážkovic
Černec, - 1425
Černík, - 1318, Czirnik
Černín, - 1411, panossie Czrnyna z Chudienicz
Černoch,
- 1308 frater Zcernochonis
- 1406 Nic. Czrnoch

Josef Beneš "O Český příjmeních" (Praha, Nakladatelství
Československé
akademie věd, 1962)
p.264
Černáč, Černák, Čerňáč.
- 1383, Johannes Cznak,
- 1409, Černák z Strážkovic

I double checked, and both sources have spelt Johannes Cz(r)nak
differently. Thankfully Beneš gives a source:
W.W Tomek, "Základy starého místopisu pražského, Nové Město" p. 309

Now, Tomek died in 1905, so I'm sure his book could be found online
somewhere, I'm just not sure were to look.

Looking at the spelling of the pre-1600 examples, it seems you might
be looking for a Czirmak or Czrmak, but the only thing I can find so
far is the 19th century German doctor Johann Nepomuk Czermak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Nepomuk_Czermak

As I said, I hope this helps a little.
~Asfridhr

--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Van Hassen" <adhazen1974@...> wrote:
>
> I am interested in its meaning and sound as well as history of its
> origins. I would like to it as my by-name in the SCA, so I am looking
> for documentation of it being used pre-1500's.
<<snip>>