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You know personally I spine all clubs I make unless asked for logo up or down. When I was at Hotstix I personally Pured over 100 shafts. Most of those shafts were expensive graphite models for drivers and woods. we had several customers come back and ask us to spine and flow shafts that we had previously Pured.
So I know it's good practice to flow a shaft believe me. But once you spine or flow a shaft the USGA only allows that shaft to be placed in the club head one way, with the spine facing the target right? But isn't the optimal place to place that spine more at let's say one a right handed club not at the 9:00 position but more like at the 10:30 position even though that's not allowed by the USGA. What makes me kinda laugh is that rule to begin with. I mean how would they check it other than to take the club apart and we all know that won't happen.
Sincerely,
Robert Devino
14252 Delano St.
Van Nuys, Ca. 91401
(818) 908-1691
(818) 770 -0475 cell
From: Dave Tutelman <dtutelman@...>
To: ShopTalk@...
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:55:44 AM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: SST Pured
Robert (and others who may be interested):
I have articles on FLO (not flow) and spine at:
http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/FLOphysics.php
http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines.php
They contain a lot more than just your questions -- a LOT more. But let me take a shot at the short form of the answers to your questions. If you want more detail, read the articles.
At 11:19 AM 7/10/2009, Robert Devino wrote:
> Don is right about the flowing. we had plenty of shafts that after being Pured would almost go in circles when you went to frequency them.
I find that a little surprising, but credible. PUREing is supposed to be the most stable FLO plane according to them. (At least according to their literature from some years ago. They seem to have gone Madison Avenue in the last couple of years, and spout technobabble that I can't understand. The new party line isn't really engineering as far as I can tell, just "product differentiation".)
> Here is a question. Does flowing really, I mean really make a difference?
You don't do FLO because FLO makes a difference. You do it because it is the most reliable way to find the spine and NBP. See the article on FLO physics for the reasoning. But the reasoning is really basic engineering.
Finding a spine with a bearing-based spine finder is much less reliable; except with Type 2 shafts, it is completely unreliable. The reasoning for that is given in the article on spines. And again, it is really basic engineering.
> When you flow a shaft your only checking to see that it moves consistently through one plane. When we swing the club the shaft actually bends on two planes (back and down) So is only checking it on one plane really doing anything?
You betcha!!!
That's why it is so hard to come up with any good theory on why spine alignment makes a difference. This is also covered in the spine article. Along with a picture of Jack Nicklaus demonstrating that the plane of the spine (or NBP) is only briefly the plane in which the shaft is bending.
BTW, you an TFlan are spot-on about the precision -- or really the lack of precision -- by which a clubmaker can align a shaft. But the required precision isn't that great either. The articles discuss how critical this really is -- and it is a function of how strong the spine is. The stronger the spine, the greater the penalty for a given amount of misalignment.
Cheers!
DaveT
--
Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo.
Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
So I know it's good practice to flow a shaft believe me. But once you spine or flow a shaft the USGA only allows that shaft to be placed in the club head one way, with the spine facing the target right? But isn't the optimal place to place that spine more at let's say one a right handed club not at the 9:00 position but more like at the 10:30 position even though that's not allowed by the USGA. What makes me kinda laugh is that rule to begin with. I mean how would they check it other than to take the club apart and we all know that won't happen.
Robert Devino
14252 Delano St.
Van Nuys, Ca. 91401
(818) 908-1691
(818) 770 -0475 cell
From: Dave Tutelman <dtutelman@...>
To: ShopTalk@...
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:55:44 AM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: SST Pured
Robert (and others who may be interested):
I have articles on FLO (not flow) and spine at:
http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/FLOphysics.php
http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines.php
They contain a lot more than just your questions -- a LOT more. But let me take a shot at the short form of the answers to your questions. If you want more detail, read the articles.
At 11:19 AM 7/10/2009, Robert Devino wrote:
> Don is right about the flowing. we had plenty of shafts that after being Pured would almost go in circles when you went to frequency them.
I find that a little surprising, but credible. PUREing is supposed to be the most stable FLO plane according to them. (At least according to their literature from some years ago. They seem to have gone Madison Avenue in the last couple of years, and spout technobabble that I can't understand. The new party line isn't really engineering as far as I can tell, just "product differentiation".)
> Here is a question. Does flowing really, I mean really make a difference?
You don't do FLO because FLO makes a difference. You do it because it is the most reliable way to find the spine and NBP. See the article on FLO physics for the reasoning. But the reasoning is really basic engineering.
Finding a spine with a bearing-based spine finder is much less reliable; except with Type 2 shafts, it is completely unreliable. The reasoning for that is given in the article on spines. And again, it is really basic engineering.
> When you flow a shaft your only checking to see that it moves consistently through one plane. When we swing the club the shaft actually bends on two planes (back and down) So is only checking it on one plane really doing anything?
You betcha!!!
That's why it is so hard to come up with any good theory on why spine alignment makes a difference. This is also covered in the spine article. Along with a picture of Jack Nicklaus demonstrating that the plane of the spine (or NBP) is only briefly the plane in which the shaft is bending.
BTW, you an TFlan are spot-on about the precision -- or really the lack of precision -- by which a clubmaker can align a shaft. But the required precision isn't that great either. The articles discuss how critical this really is -- and it is a function of how strong the spine is. The stronger the spine, the greater the penalty for a given amount of misalignment.
Cheers!
DaveT
--
Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo.
Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
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