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#693 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Sun May 1, 2005 8:42 am
Subject: A Woman's Request from Peshawar 		blochch
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Dear all,

Through this email alert, we want to draw your attention towards a recent untoward incident in which the local leaders of the Jamaat-e-Islami resorted to threats to stop the holding of an election-related program of the Aurat Foundation in Timergarah area of Dir district, NWFP.    
 
The Aurat Foundation had arranged a networking meeting on April 07, 2005 in collaboration with the local social organizations as part of the campaign for women representation in the expected Local Government election. Social and political figures had been invited to the program. Prior permission had been obtained from the District Government, and the Timergarah Rest house booked for that. But the District Police Officer phoned up an Aurat Foundation staff member and got information about the meeting, adding the local leaders of the Jamaat-e-Islami had threatened to stop holding of the meeting by force as they believed that a large number of women had been invited to the meeting. It was explained to the DPO that neither woman had been invited, nor would any attend the moot. The police officer was also informed that keeping in view the social norms and religious situation of the area, a separate meeting had been convened for the women in a nearby village.

After getting this assurance, the DPO talked to the Jamaat leaders. He again contacted the AF staff members to tell that he had spoken to the JI local leaders and cleared their reservations. However, he suggested that the AF women staff members should keep away from the meeting to avoid any unpleasant situation. . The AF entertained the request accordingly.

Despite all that, the Timergarah Tehsil nazim went to the Rest house and let loose angry outbursts.   He asked the organizers to remove the chairs and tents from the venue, saying AF would not be allowed to hold the meeting. He got the rest house locked by force. To forestall any untoward incident, the AF shifted the meeting venue as people had already been invited and postponement was not possible at this stage.

On the morning of April 07, 2005 a local leader of the Jamaat , Mr Aizazul Mulk Afqari   reached the new venue for the meeting along with his companions in two cars. Mr Afqari entered the Hujra. The AF staff members and their local partners assured them the AF staff members and their local partners were peaceful citizens and had no differences with any political party. He was told that the AF had always worked in collaboration with all the political parties, including the Jamaat-e-Islami, and even JI local and provincial leaders had participated in the AF seminars and programs. He was convinced, albeit with difficulty. The meeting was held, which was attended not only by provincial and district leadership of the ANP, PPPP, JUI, PML (N) and PML (Q), but also former contenders for the provincial and national assembly seats.

We have brought the above incident to the notice of the Jamaat-e-Islami chief Qazi Hussain Ahmad so that such an embarrassing situation does not arise in future.

We hope you will also support us by prevailing on the Jamaat-i-Islami national and provincial leadership to stop creating hurdles in way of those working for the women participation in the Local Government polls. Your letters, faxes, emails and phone calls to the Jamaat leaders will definitely strengthen the hands of all those who want women represented in the local governance.
The best regards,
Rukhshanda Naz,
Resident Director,
Aurat Foundation,
Peshawar


 

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#692 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:58 pm
Subject: Amnesty International Condemns Stoning to Death of a Woman 		blochch
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LONDON: Discrimination against women in Afghanistan will continue to
have grave consequences until the government takes concrete steps to
end it, said Amnesty International following the killing by stoning
of a 29 year-old woman accused of adultery.
The killing, committed last week, is alleged to be the first incident
of the execution of a woman for committing adultery since the removal
of the Taliban regime in late 2001.

According to eyewitnesses, the 29-year old, named only as Amina, was
dragged out of her parent's house in Urgu District, Badakhan province
by her husband and local officials before being publicly stoned to
death. The man accused of committing adultery with her is alleged to
have been whipped a hundred times and freed.

According to reports, Amina was condemned to death by local court and
then killed within approximately 48 hours.

"The case of Amina demonstrates the failure of the Afghan government
to protect, ensure and dispense justice, particularly for women,"
said Amnesty International.

"Religious and customary practices cannot be used as an excuse for
violating the fundamental human rights of women."

"The Afghan government has the responsibility of protecting women
from violence, committed not only by the state but also by private
individuals and groups."

Amnesty International welcomes the promised investigation by the
Afghan government into Amina's unlawful death and to bring all those
responsible to justice.

The organization calls on the death penalty to be abolished. The case
of Amina illustrates the irredeemable injustice of the application of
the death penalty.

Amnesty International opposes the death penalty in all circumstances
on the grounds that it represents the ultimate cruel inhuman and
degrading punishment and violates the right to life.

This is especially pertinent with regards to Afghanistan where the
central criminal justice system is unable to provide adequate
safeguards against local court decisions and similarly cannot, as of
yet, ensure the minimum standards of a fair trial with due process.

Amnesty International calls upon the Afghan government to uphold its
international obligations to the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights (ICCPR), which under Article 7 clearly states
that "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or
degrading treatment or punishment." Under international human rights
law, states must exercise due diligence to secure women's rights to
equality, life, liberty and security, and freedom from
discrimination, torture and cruel and inhuman and degrading treatment.



 

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#691 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:46 am
Subject: Oppression by Student Wing of Jama'at Islami 		blochch
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Note: forwarded message attached.


 

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I think all of us who have been to Punjab University recognis ethe incident below, pretty well.

/Daily Times report below.

IJT detains PU student for snapping cousin’s photos

By Waqar Gillani

LAHORE: The Islami Jamiat Talaba (IJT), the students’ wing of the Jamaat-e-Islami in the Punjab University, on Thursday harassed and detained an MSc Physics student for taking snaps of his female cousin during the department’s annual sports.

IJT activists, led by the department nazim, slapped the student, Usman, when he was snapping photos of his classmate who is also his cousin during a table tennis match at the department. Later in the evening, the IJT activists picked him up and detained him at the IJT office for more than one hour. Usman was released after strict “warning” from the IJT leadership that he should not be frank with the opposite sex at the campus, some students told Daily Times. They said Usman and his cousin lived in a joint family and came to the department together. Physics Department Chairman Dr Khadim Hussain did not act on the issue. On repeated requests from the students, he called the department nazim and asked him to resolve the issue.

Allah Bakhsh Laghari, a spokesman for the IJT, told Daily Times that the matter was resolved immediately, adding that some people had painted the incident wrongly to defame them. He said the allegations of thrashing and detaining Usman were false



Farooq Sulehria

Sågverksg 118

122 41 Enskede. Sweden
 
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#690 From: Irfan Hoat <punalhoat@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:50 am
Subject: Seraiki Province 		punalhoat
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Dear All,
Today Khabrain publish a seminar’s report which was
conducted in Multan on issue of Seraiki Province. Read
and comment. Please do not forget Dera Ismail Khan in
this process.
  By and large for whom we are demanding for a separate
Province if it is for the Kehals, Oods, Kami then I
think it too early to claim.

http://www.khabrain.com/htmls/pg20.htm
http://www.khabrain.com/htmls/pg21.htm

Thanks
Irfan Hoat

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#689 From: "Punjab NGOs Coordination Council" <punjab_ngos_coordination_council@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:54 am
Subject: Get Membership of PNCC Yahoo Group 		punjab_ngos_...
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Dear Colleague,
PNCC is the Punjab provincial chapter of Pakistan NGOs Forum (PNF) a
representative body of the non-governmental organizations at the
national level.

You can become member of its yahoo group by simply clicking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/punjab_ngos_coordination_council/

Kind Regards
Provincial Coordinator
Engr. Umair Bashir Bhatti
TRP House, Lane No. 6, Main Boulevard,
Iqbal Town, East Canal Road, Near Hamdard University,
Faisalabad, Pakistan
Phone: 0300-6640349
Email: info@...

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#688 From: "Punjab NGOs Coordination Council" <punjab_ngos_coordination_council@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:54 am
Subject: Get Membership of PNCC Yahoo Group 		punjab_ngos_...
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Dear Colleague,
PNCC is the Punjab provincial chapter of Pakistan NGOs Forum (PNF) a
representative body of the non-governmental organizations at the
national level.

You can become member of its yahoo group by simply clicking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/punjab_ngos_coordination_council/

Kind Regards
Provincial Coordinator
Engr. Umair Bashir Bhatti
TRP House, Lane No. 6, Main Boulevard,
Iqbal Town, East Canal Road, Near Hamdard University,
Faisalabad, Pakistan
Phone: 0300-6640349
Email: info@...

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#687 From: "Punjab NGOs Coordination Council" <punjab_ngos_coordination_council@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:54 am
Subject: Get Membership of PNCC Yahoo Group 		punjab_ngos_...
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Dear Colleague,
PNCC is the Punjab provincial chapter of Pakistan NGOs Forum (PNF) a
representative body of the non-governmental organizations at the
national level.

You can become member of its yahoo group by simply clicking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/punjab_ngos_coordination_council/

Kind Regards
Provincial Coordinator
Engr. Umair Bashir Bhatti
TRP House, Lane No. 6, Main Boulevard,
Iqbal Town, East Canal Road, Near Hamdard University,
Faisalabad, Pakistan
Phone: 0300-6640349
Email: info@...

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#686 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:01 pm
Subject: Health & Fitness - BBC 		blochch
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Dear friends,
Please click on the blue line below to see my article on health & fitness in BBC.
With regards,
Shaukat Baloch




 

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#685 From: "naeem baluch" <Naeemnutkani@...>
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:41 pm
Subject: RE: Stoning to Death of a Woman 		Naeemnutkani@...
Send Email Send Email
  
It is a shameful and sad news.Let America and devped country launch devp
projects collaboration with India ,including schools,hospitals roads,
electricity telephones, factories etc to meet the situation. Pakistan
,however might not allowed intervening.The culprits regaurding this incident
should be punished in the court of justice.

>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
>Reply-To: Siraikistan@googlegroups.com
>To: Multan Siraiki <multan@yahoogroups.com>, Saraikiz Siraiki
><saraikiz@yahoogroups.com>, Siraiki Siraiki <siraiki@yahoogroups.com>,
>Siraiki language and Siraiki literature <sweetsiraiki@...>, Google
>Groups Siraikistan <Siraikistan@googlegroups.com>, Pakistan News Socialist
><socialist_pakistan_news@yahoogroups.com>, Friendz Soul
><friendzsoul@yahoogroups.com>, SRC <psrc@...>, Seraiki Sangat
><seraikisangat@yahoogroups.com>, Siraiki Saraiki <siraiki@...>,
>Miss Noor Bakht Nizamani Saraikiz <saraikiz@...>, Seraiki Seraiki
><seraiki@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Stoning to Death of a Woman
>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:27:37 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Dear friends,
>Please click below to read the full news. Isn't it a an barbarism on the
>part of mullas?
>With regards,
>Shaukat Baloch
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/regional/story/2005/04/050423_sungsar_sen.shtml
>
>
>
>
>
>
>(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com)
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com

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#684 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:27 pm
Subject: Stoning to Death of a Woman 		blochch
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Dear friends,
Please click below to read the full news. Isn't it a an barbarism on the part of mullas?
With regards,
Shaukat Baloch
 


 

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#683 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:59 pm
Subject: CSOs statement against MMA attack on Women Marathon in Gujrawala 		blochch
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Please peruse the attachment below.
With regards,
Shaukat Baloch

Note: forwarded message attached.


 

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Press Statement by Civil Society Organizations
(Islamabad) against MMA’s attack on women athletes in
Gujranwala



Dated: 7th April 2005



We the civil society organizations of Islamabad
strongly condemn the shameful attack on the female
participants and the viewers of marathon race at the
Jinnah Stadium, Gujranwala by the MMA under the
leadership of their local MNA Qazi Hameedullah. The
use of violence by an extremist minority is an attempt
to impose their will on the majority. We see this as a
continuation of MMA’s retrogressive policies to
control and oppress women such as forced segregation
of educational institutes, prohibiting male doctors
from attending to female patients, banning women from
working in PCOs in the name of public morality.



In the past the government has allowed the religious
extremists to get away with public disruptions, such
as attacking wedding parties, musical concerts and
Jashn-e-Chitral, which have encouraged religious
extremists to take an offensive on issues of citizen’s
rights. While we endorse the government’s current
action against these troublemakers and the
condemnation of the incident in the Punjab Assembly,
we urge the government to stand firm and not give in
to the pressure of the MMA as they have repeatedly
done in the past. The restoration of religion column
in the passport and backtracking on the Blasphemy Law
is a case in point. Selective invocation of the
present government’s ‘enlightenment moderation’ and
the appeasement of fundamentalist forces will not take
us forward.



We deplore ARD’s support for the MMA’s action, as
Iqbal Jhagra, General Secretary of ARD, has come out
in support of the action and spoken of the need of
keeping women out of assemblies and at home. It is
also shameful that while the incident was condemned in
the Punjab Assembly, PPP did not support the
resolution presented by the government. We believe
that this is not a battle between the government and
the opposition but between the forces of progression
and retrogression.



We strongly demand that the government make sure that
all similar events already planned in Sarghoda, Multan
and Bhawlapur should take place as scheduled and the
government must provide full protection and safety to
the marathon participants. We strongly urge the
government to take immediate action against the
leaders of MMA who have publicly threatened the use of
power to stop such events. We also demand that the
government must take proactive actions to safeguard
women’s rights in the country. .



Endorsing Organisations:



Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Islamabad

ActionAid Pakistan

Aurat Foundation

Pattan Development Organization

Potohar Organization for Development Advocacy

Rozan

Sungi Development Foundation

Sustainable Development Policy Institute

The Network for Consumer Protection

Uks Resource Center

Urban Village Watch

Women Action Forum





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#682 From: innocent jamali <dilber_jamali@...>
Date: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:07 am
Subject: <(_!_)| Madina Piczzzzzz 		dilber_jamali
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Hassan  Jamali Web

www.hassanjamali.tk

     

 

Madina


03629.jpg

 

03629.jpg

 

03629.jpg

03629.jpg

 

03629.jpg

03629.jpg

 

03629.jpg

03629.jpg

03629.jpg

More Islamic Picture will be Upload on www.hassanjamali.tk don't miss that

     

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#681 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:08 pm
Subject: Rights of Women & MMA 		blochch
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Dear Umar Khan,

You have included several political issues in your mail. It would be cumbersome to discuss them collectively. Each of those requires a separate discussion. So, at present I would focus only on one issue i.e. Liberty of women to participate in sports activities like joint marathon. This issue has been highlighted by the attack of ‘brave’ workers of MMA, mostly from tribal area, on women, who were somebody’s sisters, mothers and daughters, participating in a marathon in Gujranawala. As you have not specifically answered the points raised by me in my previous mail, I have to repeat and add a few more:

Millions of men and women jointly perform Hajj every year. During this, the shoulders of men and women also happen to touch. If this is not un-Islamic why a joint marathon, where shoulders of men and women do not touch, is un-Islamic? Millions of men and women in Saudi Arabia and Pakhtunkhwa jointly do shopping daily in the bazaars where, sometimes, their shoulders or arms happen to touch each other. If MMA has no objection to this happening in Peshawar where it has its government, why does it object a joint marathon in Gujranawala at a distance of about four hundred kilometers in Gujranwala? Women in Peshawar sit right in front of a male cloth merchant or a jeweler, mostly without a veil, and discuss the quality and pattern of the cloth and the ornaments, specially, during marriage shopping for a long time, sometimes also in the absence of their ‘maharm’ i.e. a close relative. If these joint discussions and sittings between men and women are Islamic for MMA, why a joint marathon is un-Islamic? Men and women jointly shopping in the bazaars are walking at a speed of about one kilometer in thirty minutes. In a joint marathon, there is almost no chance that the men and women touch each other. Only the speed of their movement increases in a marathon. Whereas in a bazaar, it is about one kilometer in thirty minutes in a marathon, it could be one kilometer in about ten minutes. Why just the difference in speed of the movement makes a joint marathon un-Islamic. In the bazaars, men and women are right in front of or side by side of each other. Men are looking at the face and body of the women from a very close distance. This is Islamic. But in a joint marathon, the participants are on a road and the viewers are at a distance on the road side or on the footpath. How this viewing becomes un-Islamic? When a ‘ghair maharam’ i.e. not a close relative, male doctor, specially a male gynecologist, looks at all the parts of the body of the woman, without clothes, during child birth and Caesarian operation, some times for hours together, it is Islamic. But when the people have a glimpse of a running woman fully dressed and this glimpse of each woman perhaps for a second, from a distance, how this one-second glimpse becomes un-Islamic? Honestly speaking, such objections of MMA are comic, without any logic and have made the Muslims a laughing stock all around the world.

Once, Bernard Shaw, the famous British playwright and dramatist, was looking at a painting in a painting exhibition. A woman was also doing the same. They came near a painting in which a small part of the body of a woman in the painting was uncovered. The woman asked Shaw, “Don’t you think this painting is vulgar?” Shaw replied, “Madam, I am not sure about the painting but your mind is.” Shaw meant that in all the painting the woman’s (asking Shaw) mind was attracted by a very small part of it which was uncovered and she ignored the beauty of the rest of the classical painting. So dear, it is a matter of mindset that decides that while seeing a joint marathon whether one’s mind is attracted by the idea of health and fitness or towards the contours of the body of the participants. Believe me we daily come across scores of men and women jogging on the footpaths and parks of Switzerland and nobody looks at them unless they come right in front of you. Attitude of MMA is just like a baby or a bird who is scared of something that is new. When we have such marathons often, you would find nothing un-Islamic in them. As far as the religious verdicts or ‘fatwas’ are concerned, the narrow-minded religious dogmatic persons are on record to have given ‘fatwas’ that bicycle was a ‘shaitani charkha’ i.e. a devil’s wheel; loud speaker, radio, camera, photograph, video film and going on the Moon were un-Islamic. Today all these are not un-Islamic. Now if PTV does not give coverage to the political rallies and speeches of religious leaders, they lodge a strong protest with the Chief Election Commissioner. Big portraits of leaders of religious political parties are displayed during election campaigns in bazaars and in the newspapers with the full approval of even MMA leadership and with the expenses being paid by MMA. About a century before some Muslim religious leaders in India had declared that photos were un-Islamic. Till yesterday photos were un-Islamic in Afghanistan. This means that mental evolution plays a role. Certain ideas, with the passage of time, transform from being un-Islamic to Islamic. Let us not curtail the freedom of women. Mothers of Punjab (and Pakhtunkhwa) whose daily life activities are restricted by chauvinistic men will produce sons who would have no objection to the rule of military generals getting dictation from foreigners. If we beat the mothers of tomorrow with sticks while they are participating in a joint marathon or in any other activity of their choice, they will produce sons, who even in the year 2050, will accept another general Musharaf as their President. It is the liberty and freedom of the mothers in the West that no general can dare to impose martial law on their sons and daughters as it is so common with the generals of Punjab and Pakhtunkhwah. Generals from Punjab usurp power and MMA votes in favour of the 17th amendment of the Constitution which allows these generals, who captured power unconstitutionally, to rule over the country. Such a thing could never happen in the West because their mothers and daughters have full freedom and liberty.

Joint marathon in itself is not everything. It is the principle of free choice of every citizen to do what he / she likes that is important. If this choice is allowed to be usurped, then there would be no end to it. Tomorrow the demand would come that women cannot go out of their house without the company of a ‘maharam’ i.e. a close male relative; that women cannot do jobs in offices with males even if their children are dying of hunger…and so on and so forth.

More next time, provided you don’t use words like 'filth' and 'blood' in your mail.

With regards,

Shaukat Baloch

 

 



 

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#680 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:37 am
Subject: Women & Marathon 		blochch
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Dear friends,

It is in my personal knowledge that the gynecologists of national level working in many cities of Pakistan are males and among their patients are the wives and doctors of respectable religious leaders on whom these male doctors also perform Caesarian operations for delivery of babies and save them from certain death. My brother-in-law is a gynecologist and he has the daughters and wives of respectable religious leaders as his patients. In Saudi Arabian hospitals there are male gynecologists. I do not want to describe here the details of the duties of a gynecologist. Every father and mother knows it. It is definitely something much more than seeing a woman, fully dressed in clothes, participating in a marathon.

Just visit a bazaar of bangles (‘choorian’) on the week before Eid. See the rush where men and women’s shoulders are touching and male shopkeepers putting on ‘choorian’ on the wrists of girls and women. See the vegetable market in peak hours. Same is case there. See the ‘hajis’ in holy Ka’aba. The shoulders of men and women are touching. All this is O.K. because there is no bad intention behind it. Men and women performing joint marathon, exhausted physically, can have no objectionable feelings. Let us open our minds and live with the times. Joint marathons are necessary because these are something symbolic. These are a sign of freedom and liberty and to motivate people to take exercise. The opposite is fascism, obesity, diabetes and heart diseases. It is for us to choose. You have a right to disagree and not allow your womenfolk to participate in marathons and I do not have a right to hit your women with a big stick for not participating. Neither do you have the right to hit my womenfolk with a big stick if they participate in a marathon.

With regards,

Shaukat Baloch



 

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#679 From: "hirrak development center" <hirrak_devcen@...>
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:00 am
Subject: RE: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama] - Donation 		hirrak_devcen@...
Send Email Send Email
  
dear shaukat baloch

Bank Address: Habib Bank Ltd Main Branch Kot Addu Distt. Muzafar Garh
pakistan

Code No: o415

Ph. No: 066-2241922.      066-2242922

Account Title: Hirrak Development Center

Account No: 4395-27

e.mail address[my]  zilund@...

zafar lund

>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
>Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama] -
>Donation
>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Dear Zafar Lund,
>Your address as entered in your bank record is also required here by my
>bank. Please also mention the name of the Road or Bazar where your bank is
>situated. I mean the complete address of your bank. You may repeat your
>Account No. in your next mail. Also send me your private e-mail address.
>With regards,
>Shaukat baloch
>
>
>hirrak development center <hirrak_devcen@...> wrote:
>dear shaukat baluch
>
>sorry for replying late thanks for sending donation for our theater work i
>hope it will be helpfull for enhancing our work.
>
>title of account - Hirrak development center
>
>Account No ----4395-27
>
>
>zafar lund
>
>bank - ------------ Habib Bank Ltd Main branch Kot Addu Distt. Muzafar Garh
>
> >From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
> >Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
> >To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama]
> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Dear Zafar Lund,
> >I want to make a small donation for your drama unit. Please send me your
> >bank account No. along with your name &  address that you have given to
> >your bank.
> >With regards,
> >Shaukat Baloch,
> >Switzerland
> >
> >hirrak development center <hirrak_devcen@...> wrote:
> >dear friends
> >
> >A cultural programme was organised at shadan lund distt. D.G.Khan on9th
> >APRIL by SWAIL IN WHICH THOUSANDS people participated. there was poetry
> >music and drama performance. The drama was performed by Hirrak's childern
> >team the theme of the drama was following.
> >
> >there was a king he was very crual his sipahis were capturing all
>resources
> >,land,water,jobs and bussiness of the country and people were going to be
> >poor if any one tried to resist for his/her right he[king] said the
>bullet
> >will come from that direction no person will know where from it had come.
> >all days are of god one day people removed him from power and were
> >capturing
> >him in the street and were saying to kill him at the spot because he had
> >killed our sisters, brother etc. At once a little female child came and
> >said
> >to the ousted king oh father please come with me to home otherwise people
> >will kill you. one women among the people said he[king] should be set
>free
> >because he is the father of niani[daughter] all people become agree and
> >free
> >him. he[king] weeps and goes to his home with his daughter.
> >
> >zafar lund
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >
> >Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world.
> >http://www.seraiki.org  www.seraikisangat.com
> >Visit Now!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
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> >
> >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/
> >
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> >seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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>
>
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>Visit Now!
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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>
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#678 From: "hirrak development center" <hirrak_devcen@...>
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:59 am
Subject: RE: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama] - Donation 		hirrak_devcen@...
Send Email Send Email
  
dear shaukat baloch

Bank Address: Habib Bank Ltd Main Branch Kot Addu Distt. Muzafar Garh
pakistan

Code No: o415

Ph. No: 066-2241922.      066-2242922

Account Title: Hirrak Development Center

Account No: 4395-27

>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
>Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama] -
>Donation
>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Dear Zafar Lund,
>Your address as entered in your bank record is also required here by my
>bank. Please also mention the name of the Road or Bazar where your bank is
>situated. I mean the complete address of your bank. You may repeat your
>Account No. in your next mail. Also send me your private e-mail address.
>With regards,
>Shaukat baloch
>
>
>hirrak development center <hirrak_devcen@...> wrote:
>dear shaukat baluch
>
>sorry for replying late thanks for sending donation for our theater work i
>hope it will be helpfull for enhancing our work.
>
>title of account - Hirrak development center
>
>Account No ----4395-27
>
>
>zafar lund
>
>bank - ------------ Habib Bank Ltd Main branch Kot Addu Distt. Muzafar Garh
>
> >From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
> >Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
> >To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama]
> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Dear Zafar Lund,
> >I want to make a small donation for your drama unit. Please send me your
> >bank account No. along with your name &  address that you have given to
> >your bank.
> >With regards,
> >Shaukat Baloch,
> >Switzerland
> >
> >hirrak development center <hirrak_devcen@...> wrote:
> >dear friends
> >
> >A cultural programme was organised at shadan lund distt. D.G.Khan on9th
> >APRIL by SWAIL IN WHICH THOUSANDS people participated. there was poetry
> >music and drama performance. The drama was performed by Hirrak's childern
> >team the theme of the drama was following.
> >
> >there was a king he was very crual his sipahis were capturing all
>resources
> >,land,water,jobs and bussiness of the country and people were going to be
> >poor if any one tried to resist for his/her right he[king] said the
>bullet
> >will come from that direction no person will know where from it had come.
> >all days are of god one day people removed him from power and were
> >capturing
> >him in the street and were saying to kill him at the spot because he had
> >killed our sisters, brother etc. At once a little female child came and
> >said
> >to the ousted king oh father please come with me to home otherwise people
> >will kill you. one women among the people said he[king] should be set
>free
> >because he is the father of niani[daughter] all people become agree and
> >free
> >him. he[king] weeps and goes to his home with his daughter.
> >
> >zafar lund
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >
> >Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world.
> >http://www.seraiki.org  www.seraikisangat.com
> >Visit Now!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/
> >
> >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com)
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world.
>http://www.seraiki.org  www.seraikisangat.com
>Visit Now!
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/
>
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com)
>
>
>---------------------------------
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>  Make Yahoo! your home page

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#677 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:41 pm
Subject: Power of Daughter [drama] - Donation 		blochch
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Zafar Lund,
Your address as entered in your bank record is also required here by my bank. Please also mention the name of the Road or Bazar where your bank is situated. I mean the complete address of your bank. You may repeat your Account No. in your next mail. Also send me your private e-mail address.
With regards,
Shaukat baloch


hirrak development center <hirrak_devcen@...> wrote:
dear shaukat baluch

sorry for replying late thanks for sending donation for our theater work i
hope it will be helpfull for enhancing our work.

title of account - Hirrak development center

Account No ----4395-27


zafar lund

bank - ------------ Habib Bank Ltd Main branch Kot Addu Distt. Muzafar Garh

>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
>Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama]
>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Dear Zafar Lund,
>I want to make a small donation for your drama unit. Please send me your
>bank account No. along with your name &  address that you have given to
>your bank.
>With regards,
>Shaukat Baloch,
>Switzerland
>
>hirrak development center <hirrak_devcen@...> wrote:
>dear friends
>
>A cultural programme was organised at shadan lund distt. D.G.Khan on9th
>APRIL by SWAIL IN WHICH THOUSANDS people participated. there was poetry
>music and drama performance. The drama was performed by Hirrak's childern
>team the theme of the drama was following.
>
>there was a king he was very crual his sipahis were capturing all resources
>,land,water,jobs and bussiness of the country and people were going to be
>poor if any one tried to resist for his/her right he[king] said the bullet
>will come from that direction no person will know where from it had come.
>all days are of god one day people removed him from power and were
>capturing
>him in the street and were saying to kill him at the spot because he had
>killed our sisters, brother etc. At once a little female child came and
>said
>to the ousted king oh father please come with me to home otherwise people
>will kill you. one women among the people said he[king] should be set free
>because he is the father of niani[daughter] all people become agree and
>free
>him. he[king] weeps and goes to his home with his daughter.
>
>zafar lund
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world.
>http://www.seraiki.org  www.seraikisangat.com
>Visit Now!
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/
>
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com)
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#676 From: "hirrak development center" <hirrak_devcen@...>
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:00 pm
Subject: RE: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama] 		hirrak_devcen@...
Send Email Send Email
  
dear shaukat baluch

sorry for replying late thanks for sending donation for our theater work i
hope it will be helpfull for enhancing our work.

title of account - Hirrak development center

Account No ----4395-27


zafar lund

bank - ------------ Habib Bank Ltd Main branch Kot Addu Distt. Muzafar Garh

>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
>Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Power of Daughter [drama]
>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Dear Zafar Lund,
>I want to make a small donation for your drama unit. Please send me your
>bank account No. along with your name &  address that you have given to
>your bank.
>With regards,
>Shaukat Baloch,
>Switzerland
>
>hirrak development center <hirrak_devcen@...> wrote:
>dear friends
>
>A cultural programme was organised at shadan lund distt. D.G.Khan on9th
>APRIL by SWAIL IN WHICH THOUSANDS people participated. there was poetry
>music and drama performance. The drama was performed by Hirrak's childern
>team the theme of the drama was following.
>
>there was a king he was very crual his sipahis were capturing all resources
>,land,water,jobs and bussiness of the country and people were going to be
>poor if any one tried to resist for his/her right he[king] said the bullet
>will come from that direction no person will know where from it had come.
>all days are of god one day people removed him from power and were
>capturing
>him in the street and were saying to kill him at the spot because he had
>killed our sisters, brother etc. At once a little female child came and
>said
>to the ousted king oh father please come with me to home otherwise people
>will kill you. one women among the people said he[king] should be set free
>because he is the father of niani[daughter] all people become agree and
>free
>him. he[king] weeps and goes to his home with his daughter.
>
>zafar lund
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world.
>http://www.seraiki.org  www.seraikisangat.com
>Visit Now!
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/
>
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com)
>
>__________________________________________________
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#675 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:36 am
Subject: Mulla, the Military's Genie... 		blochch
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Mulla, the Military's Genie Now Out of its Master's Control

By I A Rehman

LAHORE, April 16: One of the reasons that people have difficulty in comprehending General Pervez Musharraf's rhetoric about promoting 'enlightened moderation' and combating religious extremism is the fact that the military and the mullah in Pakistan have become extremely close allies, with each drawing sustenance from the other.

The bonds that unite them are rooted in their shared interests: both reject democracy except for using the electoral process to capture power or to legitimize usurpation of authority; both have nearly always displayed a lack of understanding of the federal principle; both repudiate women's claims to equality with men; and both have difficulty in conceding patriotic conduct to non-Muslim citizens.

This understanding between the two sides has evolved over a long period. All military formations derive strength from one dogma or another. However one may define the role of the military in the affairs of a community, the most essential fact is that anyone who joins the military knows that he is in the business of killing or getting killed. Neither prospect can be entertained with equanimity without a strong belief in the military's mission. This belief may be derived from nationalist ambitions or political ideology but the strongest motivation usually comes from religious belief.

The armed forces of Pakistan inherited a considerable number of values from the British, but they had to look for a new motivation. The belief that drove South Asian natives to risk their lives for causes assigned to the British Indian army had several components. Acceptance of the white man's right to civilize the savage created the basis of loyalty which could cut across even religious affiliations, as became evident when our soldiers did not hesitate to fight against the keepers of holy places during the First World War.

Moreover, membership of the military forces brought privileges not available to their compatriots. For instance, servicemen were counted among notables and ex-servicemen had the right to vote even if they did not fulfil educational or financial criteria for eligibility. The last Unionist premier of the Punjab sought independent status for his province as a reward for the services rendered by soldiers and drew up a five-year plan largely to meet the economic needs of demobilized troops. The British were careful to avoid interfering with the religious sensibilities of Indian soldiers and put greater store by the ethnic, caste, or linguistic bonds for bringing together soldiers subscribing to different religious codes.

One doesn't have to catalogue the extraordinary privileges the armed forces have enjoyed in Pakistan, and the privileges multiply year after year. However, in the post-independence period, the military had problems defining its belief. The nationalist sentiment was in its infancy and the defence of the new state against threats from India was never considered sufficient motivation to lay down one's life because commitment to the homeland could not grow without a long experience of a mutually beneficial relationship.

There was an element of revanchist thinking born out of the forced adoption of the exploits of Arab and Turkish armies in various theatres of Muslim soldiery in India. These memories nearly always evoked religious emotion because most of the Muslim commanders operating in South Asia invoked divine sanction, even when the enemy also displayed an Islamic banner. Religion easily became the battle cry of the armed forces in Pakistan. Even Ayub Khan, considered in many quarters as a secular commander, fell back on the religious slogan when the 1965 conflict with India began. The literature and music related to the conflicts the Pakistan army has faced are saturated with religiosity.

Pakistan's decision early in its life to join the western camp in its aggressive confrontation with the socialist bloc, tended to strengthen the pro-religion trends in the armed forces. In the beginning it was considered enough to protect the armed forces against exposure to progressive (condemned as leftist) ideas and disallow the entry of books and other publications containing such material in the military establishments but later on it was considered necessary to strengthen the religious bias among both officers and men by circulating texts by religious writers or publishing anti-socialist literature through a state-run book club.

Persistent indoctrination apart, the drift of the armed forces towards a religious ideology has been helped by two important factors. First, the policy of reducing, and in some cases blocking the entry of non-Muslims into the officer ranks has made for a more rigid and intolerant outlook on human beings in general.

Secondly, the replacement of rural-based peasant stock in the officer ranks of armed forces by lower middle class and middle class urbanites gave the conservative elements of society a dominant role in the services. Unlike their rural predecessors, who pursued mundane material interests, these urban recruits brought to the services the religious opportunism of their class.

Ayub Khan is often credited with allowing the mess-culture evolved under the British to continue. This is only partly true. A more important fact is that his policy of suppressing democratic political activity created a big opening for the clerics to encroach upon political space.

Consequently, at the end of Ayub's dictatorship, the religious parties could lay claim to power on their own strength, but no political party, with the possible exception of the Awami League and National Awami Party, could do the same without inscribing some form of commitment to religion in its manifesto in a manner not done previously. However, it was General Zia-ul-Haq who raised the conservative clerics to the position of real contenders for power.

The steps taken by him to cement the military-cleric alliance included:

- Grant of generous facilities for the opening of religious seminaries, while restricting the growth of institutions of traditional education.

- Creation of space for clerics in the legislatures, the bureaucracy and the judiciary.

- Evolving a clumsy theory about the armed forces being defenders of the country's ideological frontiers.

- Making promotion to senior ranks in armed forces subject to one's demonstration of qualities the Martial Law Chief considered essential in a holy warrior. The condition remained in force for almost a decade and produced officers who saw no harm in the Talibanization of Pakistan.

- And, above all, General Zia nearly completed the state's transformation from an imperfect democracy in the western mould into a theocratic state.

What the military did to raise the political clout of the conservative forces during 1999-2002 is history in the making. The most dangerous thing about the military's alliance with conservative, quasi-religious elements, from the point of view of the people of Pakistan, is that while the military has played a dominant role in strengthening the latter, in the long run it may not be the principal beneficiary of the arrangement.

The military is unlikely to succeed in converting the cleric while its defenses against the latter are so weak. The example of the genie becoming independent of the hands that enabled it to come out of the bottle fits the situation that Pakistan faces today so well that it seems the fable was authored exclusively for Pakistan.- Courtesy Newsline, Karachi

The writer is a well known Pakistani journalist and Human Rights activist

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#674 From: "MUKESH ASIJA" <mukeshasija@...>
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] NAWAN SAAL 		mukeshasija
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Abbas Bhai,

Agar maidee yaadash theek hai, tussan Sain hikk vaar apni research de sil
sile vitch Dilli aawan daa zikkar kita hai. Tussan ke program banaye ? Apni
research de bare vitch kujh likhon.

Mukesh Asija


>From: "A. Abbas" <abbas_mailsian@...>
>To: mukeshasija@...
>Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] NAWAN SAAL
>Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:25:23 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Mukesh Saeen,
>
>Tuakoon vi VISAKHI diyaan mubarkaan tey vadhaian, khush wasso.
>
>Abbas
>Helsinki,Finland
>
>
>MUKESH ASIJA <mukeshasija@...> wrote:
>BAISAKHI DI LAKH LAKH VADHAIAN
>
>Mukesh Asija
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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#673 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:03 am
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] New Issue of AKKAS 		blochch
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Hussain,
I have sent my address to the the contact you have mentioned.
With regards,
Shaukat Baloch

Hussain Ahmad Khan <hahmad79@...> wrote:
Dear fellows
New issue of AKKAS-bi-annual newsletter of Research and Publication Centre (RPC) has been published. RPC is a pedagogic effort by the National College of Arts to encourage students, academics and professionals in their research activities through publishing.
This issue comprises book reviews, excerpts from NCA Publications and report of events organized by the Centre.
For free subscription contact at rpc@.... Donot forget to send your postal add.
Kind regards
hussain 


Hussain

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#672 From: Hussain Ahmad Khan <hahmad79@...>
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:27 am
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] New Issue of AKKAS 		hahmad79
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Dear fellows
New issue of AKKAS-bi-annual newsletter of Research and Publication Centre (RPC) has been published. RPC is a pedagogic effort by the National College of Arts to encourage students, academics and professionals in their research activities through publishing.
This issue comprises book reviews, excerpts from NCA Publications and report of events organized by the Centre.
For free subscription contact at rpc@.... Donot forget to send your postal add.
Kind regards
hussain 


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#671 From: innocent jamali <dilber_jamali@...>
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:09 pm
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#670 From: innocent jamali <dilber_jamali@...>
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#669 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:12 pm
Subject: MMA-Military Mullah Alliance 		blochch
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Dear Shaikh Hyder,

I think Garboni is referring to the attack on the women participating in the marathon by MMA workers in Gujranawala. If MMA justifies itself to decide what is right and what is wrong by use of brute force as it did in Gujranwala, then we can not object to Musharaf's coup d'état or any other dictator like Hitler who killed those who differed with him. In modern times, morals and religion are each person's private affair, between him and his God, and no one should impose his views on others. Attack by MMA in Gujranawala was an act of fascism, pure and simple. Actually Military and Mullahs have something common in them i.e. imposing their will with force on others. This is the reason that from General Yahya to General Zia to General Musharaf Mullahs have always supported the generals on all important issues. Now the Mullahs are opposing Musharaf only as a part of their election campaign for the coming elections to show to the voters that they are against the army rule which is disliked by the people. Use of force by MMA in Gujranwala justifies martial law on philosophical level because it justifies the principle that might is right. This principle demoralises the common man in struggle for democracy because he concludes that powerful have the right to do what they consider to be correct. MMA is supporting the generals in this way. MMA leadership knows what it is doing and people also understand this. Unfortunately workers of MMA do not know this and are being misguided by its leadership.

With regards,

Shaukat Baloch                            



 

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#668 From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...>
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki 		blochch
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Dear Aslam Rasoolpuri and Ahsan Wagha,
I am grateful to both of you to have given me the valuable information about the spellings of the word Siraiki.
With regards,
Shaukat Baloch

aslam rasoolpuri <aslamrasoolpuri@...> wrote:
Correct spelling of Siraiki are Siraiki .All recognized linguists are agree with these spellings .Saraiki write only that persons who dont know origin of this word or can't pronounce it correctlly .

Ahsan Wagha -- <damaan123@...> wrote:

 Dear Shaukat,

Standardization of spelling, not only spelling but all the standardization are structured thus  temprary, if not arbitrary. Spoken language is something organic, keeps changing. Written form of a language is concretization of the spoken, hence dead. The spelling fixed say 500 years back may have partly become incompatible with the pronunciation today. It is possible that the 'k' silent in 'knowledge' today was spoken at some time in the past.

If we agree on this, then my view on the question you raised i.e. spelling of Siraiki can be sharable with you which follows;

Standard Roman spelling of Siraiki fixed by its first writers in Roman i.e. the British, are 'S i r a i k i'.

One of popular interpretation of this spelling (again, may not necessarily be final and correct) is that the word is a compound of 'sira/siro' (head, upper, north) and '-ki' (suffix for 'of', and more specifically, an adjectival suffix used with names of languages e.g. Siraiki, Balochki, Pathanakki, Jatki and ki=Sawahil for Sawahili).

But with passage of time people have become comfortable with replacement of 'i' with an elementary 'a', ‘Saraiki’. Now the choice is with the individual writer to prefer standard spelling over the colloquial types, or vice versa.

Ahsan Wagha
 
>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...> >Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:39:27 -0700 (PDT) > >Dear friends, >I request the linguists to confirm the correct spellings of the word 'Saraiki'. >With regards, >Shaukat Baloch > >seraiki@yahoogroups.com wrote: > >The following seraiki poll is now closed. Here are the >final results: > > >POLL QUESTION: corectt spelling of our nation > >CHOICES AND RESULTS >- saraiki, 2 votes, 50.00% >- seraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% >- siraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% > >INDIVIDUAL VOTES >- saraiki > - khalillaskani@... > - ammardgk@... >- seraiki > - zulfiqarak@... >- siraiki > - sachalbalouch@... > > >For more information about this group, please visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki > >For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit >http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > >Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world. >http://www.seraiki.org www.seraikisangat.com >Visit Now! > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com) > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

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#667 From: aslam rasoolpuri <aslamrasoolpuri@...>
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:18 am
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki 		aslamrasoolpuri
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Pardesi Bhira ,
 
  Shukria .Tusaadi gaalh bilkul theek ae .Ainjhey edaray dee bahooN loRe ae jerha asaaDay ae saaray maslay hal karay ,magar ethaN fund naheeN honday .AsaaN kinooN jerha kujh thee sagday apni madad aap day tahat kareeN day khaRooN ,TusaaDa niaz mand  ---Aslam Rasoolpuri

"A. Abbas" <abbas_mailsian@...> wrote:
Saeen Aslam Rasopluri  / Ahsan Wahga Sahib
 
meyn seraiki group da hikk "silent" rukan haan, tussan agwanraan di gahl muhaar tee haan tharde joo sadee waseeb ech toadee sanween gaweer karan walee hin pae tee kamm agun tee turda pae.
 
Tarikhi tee lisani hawale naal toadi ee gahl theek hee jo SIRAIKI theek spelling hee, Europe diaan zabanaan (angreezi koon choor tey) ech "i" di awaz uha hey jehri "alef de tale zeer te choti yee"  di hee , dujhi gahl ee hee jo Siraiki koon Siraiki akhraan ech likhan tee taan koi confusion kaini par Roman ech kienween likha wanje joo look SARAIKI / SERAIKI / SIRAIKI koon tarae anj zabanaan na samjhin? Mede khiyaal ech taan ee bahoon zaroori hey jo asaan duniya koon apnreen maa boli di "standard spelling" dewoun taan joo sadi zaban tee sagafat di taraqi theewe. 
 
Medi salah ee hee jo Siraiki zaban di taraqi kitee sade waseeb dee "Thinktanks" da hik idara banraya wanjey jehra Siraki Waseeb tee zaban tey sceintific tarikee naal kam karee. Mede khiyaal ech asan sarey hurn rul tey ahr karoon jo sadee apreen naweekle "institutions" hovin...een aas tee na bhethe rahoon jo sarkar sada hak sakoon zaroor deysi!
 
ABBAS
Helsinki, Finland
 
 

aslam rasoolpuri <aslamrasoolpuri@...> wrote:
Correct spelling of Siraiki are Siraiki .All recognized linguists are agree with these spellings .Saraiki write only that persons who dont know origin of this word or can't pronounce it correctlly .

Ahsan Wagha -- <damaan123@...> wrote:

 Dear Shaukat,

Standardization of spelling, not only spelling but all the standardization are structured thus  temprary, if not arbitrary. Spoken language is something organic, keeps changing. Written form of a language is concretization of the spoken, hence dead. The spelling fixed say 500 years back may have partly become incompatible with the pronunciation today. It is possible that the 'k' silent in 'knowledge' today was spoken at some time in the past.

If we agree on this, then my view on the question you raised i.e. spelling of Siraiki can be sharable with you which follows;

Standard Roman spelling of Siraiki fixed by its first writers in Roman i.e. the British, are 'S i r a i k i'.

One of popular interpretation of this spelling (again, may not necessarily be final and correct) is that the word is a compound of 'sira/siro' (head, upper, north) and '-ki' (suffix for 'of', and more specifically, an adjectival suffix used with names of languages e.g. Siraiki, Balochki, Pathanakki, Jatki and ki=Sawahil for Sawahili).

But with passage of time people have become comfortable with replacement of 'i' with an elementary 'a', ‘Saraiki’. Now the choice is with the individual writer to prefer standard spelling over the colloquial types, or vice versa.

Ahsan Wagha
 
>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...> >Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:39:27 -0700 (PDT) > >Dear friends, >I request the linguists to confirm the correct spellings of the word 'Saraiki'. >With regards, >Shaukat Baloch > >seraiki@yahoogroups.com wrote: > >The following seraiki poll is now closed. Here are the >final results: > > >POLL QUESTION: corectt spelling of our nation > >CHOICES AND RESULTS >- saraiki, 2 votes, 50.00% >- seraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% >- siraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% > >INDIVIDUAL VOTES >- saraiki > - khalillaskani@... > - ammardgk@... >- seraiki > - zulfiqarak@... >- siraiki > - sachalbalouch@... > > >For more information about this group, please visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki > >For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit >http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > >Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world. >http://www.seraiki.org www.seraikisangat.com >Visit Now! > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com) > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

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#666 From: "A. Abbas" <abbas_mailsian@...>
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:01 am
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki 		abbas_mailsian
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Saeen Aslam Rasopluri  / Ahsan Wahga Sahib
 
meyn seraiki group da hikk "silent" rukan haan, tussan agwanraan di gahl muhaar tee haan tharde joo sadee waseeb ech toadee sanween gaweer karan walee hin pae tee kamm agun tee turda pae.
 
Tarikhi tee lisani hawale naal toadi ee gahl theek hee jo SIRAIKI theek spelling hee, Europe diaan zabanaan (angreezi koon choor tey) ech "i" di awaz uha hey jehri "alef de tale zeer te choti yee"  di hee , dujhi gahl ee hee jo Siraiki koon Siraiki akhraan ech likhan tee taan koi confusion kaini par Roman ech kienween likha wanje joo look SARAIKI / SERAIKI / SIRAIKI koon tarae anj zabanaan na samjhin? Mede khiyaal ech taan ee bahoon zaroori hey jo asaan duniya koon apnreen maa boli di "standard spelling" dewoun taan joo sadi zaban tee sagafat di taraqi theewe. 
 
Medi salah ee hee jo Siraiki zaban di taraqi kitee sade waseeb dee "Thinktanks" da hik idara banraya wanjey jehra Siraki Waseeb tee zaban tey sceintific tarikee naal kam karee. Mede khiyaal ech asan sarey hurn rul tey ahr karoon jo sadee apreen naweekle "institutions" hovin...een aas tee na bhethe rahoon jo sarkar sada hak sakoon zaroor deysi!
 
ABBAS
Helsinki, Finland
 
 

aslam rasoolpuri <aslamrasoolpuri@...> wrote:
Correct spelling of Siraiki are Siraiki .All recognized linguists are agree with these spellings .Saraiki write only that persons who dont know origin of this word or can't pronounce it correctlly .

Ahsan Wagha -- <damaan123@...> wrote:

 Dear Shaukat,

Standardization of spelling, not only spelling but all the standardization are structured thus  temprary, if not arbitrary. Spoken language is something organic, keeps changing. Written form of a language is concretization of the spoken, hence dead. The spelling fixed say 500 years back may have partly become incompatible with the pronunciation today. It is possible that the 'k' silent in 'knowledge' today was spoken at some time in the past.

If we agree on this, then my view on the question you raised i.e. spelling of Siraiki can be sharable with you which follows;

Standard Roman spelling of Siraiki fixed by its first writers in Roman i.e. the British, are 'S i r a i k i'.

One of popular interpretation of this spelling (again, may not necessarily be final and correct) is that the word is a compound of 'sira/siro' (head, upper, north) and '-ki' (suffix for 'of', and more specifically, an adjectival suffix used with names of languages e.g. Siraiki, Balochki, Pathanakki, Jatki and ki=Sawahil for Sawahili).

But with passage of time people have become comfortable with replacement of 'i' with an elementary 'a', ‘Saraiki’. Now the choice is with the individual writer to prefer standard spelling over the colloquial types, or vice versa.

Ahsan Wagha
 
>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...> >Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:39:27 -0700 (PDT) > >Dear friends, >I request the linguists to confirm the correct spellings of the word 'Saraiki'. >With regards, >Shaukat Baloch > >seraiki@yahoogroups.com wrote: > >The following seraiki poll is now closed. Here are the >final results: > > >POLL QUESTION: corectt spelling of our nation > >CHOICES AND RESULTS >- saraiki, 2 votes, 50.00% >- seraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% >- siraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% > >INDIVIDUAL VOTES >- saraiki > - khalillaskani@... > - ammardgk@... >- seraiki > - zulfiqarak@... >- siraiki > - sachalbalouch@... > > >For more information about this group, please visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki > >For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit >http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > >Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world. >http://www.seraiki.org www.seraikisangat.com >Visit Now! > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com) > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

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#665 From: aslam rasoolpuri <aslamrasoolpuri@...>
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:46 am
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki 		aslamrasoolpuri
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Correct spelling of Siraiki are Siraiki .All recognized linguists are agree with these spellings .Saraiki write only that persons who dont know origin of this word or can't pronounce it correctlly .

Ahsan Wagha -- <damaan123@...> wrote:

 Dear Shaukat,

Standardization of spelling, not only spelling but all the standardization are structured thus  temprary, if not arbitrary. Spoken language is something organic, keeps changing. Written form of a language is concretization of the spoken, hence dead. The spelling fixed say 500 years back may have partly become incompatible with the pronunciation today. It is possible that the 'k' silent in 'knowledge' today was spoken at some time in the past.

If we agree on this, then my view on the question you raised i.e. spelling of Siraiki can be sharable with you which follows;

Standard Roman spelling of Siraiki fixed by its first writers in Roman i.e. the British, are 'S i r a i k i'.

One of popular interpretation of this spelling (again, may not necessarily be final and correct) is that the word is a compound of 'sira/siro' (head, upper, north) and '-ki' (suffix for 'of', and more specifically, an adjectival suffix used with names of languages e.g. Siraiki, Balochki, Pathanakki, Jatki and ki=Sawahil for Sawahili).

But with passage of time people have become comfortable with replacement of 'i' with an elementary 'a', ‘Saraiki’. Now the choice is with the individual writer to prefer standard spelling over the colloquial types, or vice versa.

Ahsan Wagha
 
>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...> >Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:39:27 -0700 (PDT) > >Dear friends, >I request the linguists to confirm the correct spellings of the word 'Saraiki'. >With regards, >Shaukat Baloch > >seraiki@yahoogroups.com wrote: > >The following seraiki poll is now closed. Here are the >final results: > > >POLL QUESTION: corectt spelling of our nation > >CHOICES AND RESULTS >- saraiki, 2 votes, 50.00% >- seraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% >- siraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% > >INDIVIDUAL VOTES >- saraiki > - khalillaskani@... > - ammardgk@... >- seraiki > - zulfiqarak@... >- siraiki > - sachalbalouch@... > > >For more information about this group, please visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki > >For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit >http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > >Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world. >http://www.seraiki.org www.seraikisangat.com >Visit Now! > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com) > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

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#664 From: "Ahsan Wagha --" <damaan123@...>
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki 		damaan123@...
Send Email Send Email
 

 Dear Shaukat,

Standardization of spelling, not only spelling but all the standardization are structured thus  temprary, if not arbitrary. Spoken language is something organic, keeps changing. Written form of a language is concretization of the spoken, hence dead. The spelling fixed say 500 years back may have partly become incompatible with the pronunciation today. It is possible that the 'k' silent in 'knowledge' today was spoken at some time in the past.

If we agree on this, then my view on the question you raised i.e. spelling of Siraiki can be sharable with you which follows;

Standard Roman spelling of Siraiki fixed by its first writers in Roman i.e. the British, are 'S i r a i k i'.

One of popular interpretation of this spelling (again, may not necessarily be final and correct) is that the word is a compound of 'sira/siro' (head, upper, north) and '-ki' (suffix for 'of', and more specifically, an adjectival suffix used with names of languages e.g. Siraiki, Balochki, Pathanakki, Jatki and ki=Sawahil for Sawahili).

But with passage of time people have become comfortable with replacement of 'i' with an elementary 'a', ‘Saraiki’. Now the choice is with the individual writer to prefer standard spelling over the colloquial types, or vice versa.

Ahsan Wagha
 
>From: Shaukat Baloch <blochch@...> >Reply-To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >To: seraiki@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Seraiki.org&seraikisangat.com] Poll results for seraiki >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:39:27 -0700 (PDT) > >Dear friends, >I request the linguists to confirm the correct spellings of the word 'Saraiki'. >With regards, >Shaukat Baloch > >seraiki@yahoogroups.com wrote: > >The following seraiki poll is now closed. Here are the >final results: > > >POLL QUESTION: corectt spelling of our nation > >CHOICES AND RESULTS >- saraiki, 2 votes, 50.00% >- seraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% >- siraiki, 1 votes, 25.00% > >INDIVIDUAL VOTES >- saraiki > - khalillaskani@... > - ammardgk@... >- seraiki > - zulfiqarak@... >- siraiki > - sachalbalouch@... > > >For more information about this group, please visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki > >For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit >http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > >Home of 40 million Seraikis around the world. >http://www.seraiki.org www.seraikisangat.com >Visit Now! > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seraiki/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >seraiki-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >(www.shaukatbaloch.20m.com) > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

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