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The Scrum project that failed - blog   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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Re: The Scrum project that failed - blog

One of my interests is climbing. When I was a member of the Alpine
Club of Canada there was an annual journal called "The Journal of
Alpine Accidents." Initially I thought this was odd. Once I started
reading it the value instantly became clear. Climbing accidents make
for gripping reading because lives are at stake. The real value is to
other climbers who can read about what went wrong, what they did to
correct, and how the events unfolded. This concept is not new, civil
and mechanical engineering failures are studied, and we are all
familiar with the painstaking work of the FAA when a plane crash
happens.

With billions of dollars on the line every day, and a spectacularly
high rate of project failure compared to other engineering
disciplines, shouldn't we be formally logging and analyzing failures?

Or at least talking about them?

Robin


On 5/17/08, Alan Shalloway <alshall@...> wrote:
> --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Robin Dymond"
> <robin.dymond@...> wrote:
>>
>> I am interested to know about your experiences with scrum and
> projects that
>> didn't meet expectations. Is anyone else willing to discuss when
> things went
>> wrong?
>>
>> Robin.
>>
>
> Robin:
>
> Thanks for the courage it takes to post something like this. We had
> a somewhat similar experience years ago where we had a client with no
> real customer - just a business owner saying to do something. We
> recommended cancellation of the project for months before they
> finally did cancel it. While the project was a failure, it was
> cancelled months before it would have been without having recognized
> no real business need was being met.
>
> My own experience with projects doing Scrum is that most aren't
> actually doing Scrum. That is, when we come in to help/train teams,
> they say - we've been doing Scrum for X number of months. But when
> we ask what they are actually doing, it wouldn't qualify as Scrum to
> us, anyway.
>
> I find that the industry is in an interesting quagmire here. Many
> Scrum thought leaders say defining Scrum is a bad thing. They also
> suggest there are few Scrum practices that can be defined because the
> actual practices must be decided on by the team. While the later is
> true, I am not sure the former is. But what is odd, is I find that
> many people who have not had any training or coaching in Scrum feel
> they have little choice but to follow certain dogmatic principles.
> They've picked these up from Scrum books and comments by CSTs in the
> public domain (or so they've told me). Many of these are difficult
> for a team to just say they'll do. For example, a company that has
> been working in fire fighting mode for years will find it very
> difficult to tell management that they are not going to do that any
> more. How do they make a transition to that?
>
> When many practices are inferred as being necessary but not all of
> them can be followed, I've seen many teams pick and chose those they
> want to follow. This often results in total chaos and them thinking
> they are doing Scrum when they clearly aren't. An understanding of
> why Scrum works and on which practices it is based seems essential
> for such teams.
>
> These are some of the problems we've seen teams trying to adopt Scrum
> have when we started working with them:
>
> * Integrating architecture across teams
> * Time and team dependencies
> * Emerging technical designs
> * Off-shore work
> * Handling interruptions
> * Working on multiple projects at a time when management assigns
> projects this way
>
> We've had reasonable success helping teams with these problems when
> they've used Scrum in conjunction with other disciplines (XP
> Engineering practices, Design Patterns, Lean Software).
>
> It is important to note that the team can deal with some of these
> issues on their own, but some they can't. One of the essentials of
> adopting Scrum is getting management and teams working together.
> This is often problematic when many people believe a mantra of Scrum
> is "to protect the team from management". While I understand the
> need for having a team be focused, stating it this way frames a "we
> vs them" mentality of dev team and management (the Chicken and Pig
> metaphor also adds to this as I've commented on in the past).
> Better to start treating management as a partner and not as someone
> the team needs to be protected against. Simply telling management to
> behave doesn't do it either. They need something they can align with.
>
> This post of yours comes at an interesting time for me. I have been
> doing literally team Scrum training every week for the last 3-4
> months. This has given me an opportunity to see the challenges many
> different teams have been facing (gaming, IT, product, defense,
> education, ...). A common one is not having a clear understanding of
> the principles underneath the Scrum practices of:
> * focusing on one product at a time
> * keeping the team focused on business value
> * having a strong business sponsor
> * having the team swarm on stories
> * having a clear definition of what done means to the team
> * the proper unfolding of stories
> amongst others.
>
> I think it would be interesting to come up with a table that
> described the essential practices of Scrum, the principles behind
> them, how teams might modify them to work for them. In the real
> world, these have to include projects / products involving more than
> one team. Scrum has a team centric focus, but I haven't worked with
> a "team" in years. I think most individual teams who need to do
> Scrum are doing it - it's pretty easy for a team to pick up Scrum.
> But for an organization, it's another matter.
>
> I'd also be interested in people's thoughts about the ideas I have
> mentioned here. I continue to come to the conclusion that the
> impediments Scrum brings up which Scrum says must be solved cannot be
> solved just within the context of Scrum thinking (I don't believe it
> is sufficient to just say the team figures it out).
>
> Alan Shalloway
> CEO, Net Objectives
> Achieving Enterprise and Team Agility
>
>
>
>


--
Robin Dymond
VP, Managing Partner
Innovel, LLC
www.innovel.net
cell: (804) 239-4329



Sun May 18, 2008 5:53 pm

rdymond1
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... projects that ... things went ... Robin: Thanks for the courage it takes to post something like this. We had a somewhat similar experience years ago where...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway
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May 17, 2008
5:04 pm

One of my interests is climbing. When I was a member of the Alpine Club of Canada there was an annual journal called "The Journal of Alpine Accidents."...
Robin Dymond
rdymond1
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May 18, 2008
5:53 pm

We should talk about failures and successes. We can learn from both. CPI is about understanding what doesn't work so that we can move forward on an upward...
urpenguin
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May 18, 2008
7:11 pm

In October 2006 it was reported in the press in Australia that the the Australian Customs Service had implemented a system that had dramatically failed. The...
Roy Morien
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May 19, 2008
7:49 am

... Brilliant! Also this must be uncontrolled spiral of costs, otherwise there would have been some attempt at getting a benefit, by the time two times the...
srinivas chillara
ceezone
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May 19, 2008
9:47 am

We have to stop perpetuating the myth of the over-budget project. Projects do not go "over budget". That points the finger of blame at the development team,...
woynam
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May 19, 2008
3:11 pm

... circles. ... This is one of the myopic views that Scrum has, in my opinion. It focuses on the project after it has been approved and says little on how to...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway
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May 19, 2008
9:06 pm

I'm not so sure that's myopia, but just that it's out of scope for Scrum. Like any other tool, Scrum has a particular purpose. It isn't meant to solve every...
davenicolette
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May 19, 2008
10:33 pm

... I'm fine if you want to say it is out of scope. You are probably right that myopic has a negative connotation that I don't mean to imply. Most of the...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway
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May 24, 2008
6:53 pm

Alan Just briefly on your point of projects failing because of problems in the organisation outside the scope of scrum... I'm a great believer in the view that...
Richard Scott-Will-Ha...
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May 26, 2008
12:57 am

... in ... his ... Management ... honest ... sponsor ... well ... you ... walk ... Richard: Very good points. This is consistent with my views as well. Scrum...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway
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May 26, 2008
3:55 am

Both views (Alan's and woynam's) seem right to me, from their own perspectives. Projects can be spun off with a certain budget set, and can be kept "under...
srinivas chillara
ceezone
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May 20, 2008
6:29 am

If "traditional contracts" are identified as an obstacle, what is the organization doing about removing this obstacle? On a side note, also see...
Vikrama Dhiman
vickydhiman
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May 20, 2008
6:53 am

In other words, the 'iron triangle' prevails ... you cannot hold cost, time and scope all constant. Somethings gotta give. So, have a firm target completion...
Roy Morien
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May 26, 2008
2:08 am

Scrum isn't myopic, it is focused to managing complex projects. Mike Cohn and others have filled in such areas as planning with his books on "Agile Planning...
Ken Schwaber
kschwaber
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May 20, 2008
2:50 pm

Hi Ken, Fews Questions below: * Do you think there is any (any) shortcomings in the Scrum? * Do think if anybody (any stakeholders) give their desired features...
Namgyal Damdul
damdulin
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May 21, 2008
1:53 pm

Hi, Very interesting questions, and although directed to Ken, I'll try my hand on them as well. ... No, other than it being really hard to do right. It's so...
Petri Heiramo
petriheiramo
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May 22, 2008
9:48 am

... Mike Cohn ... on "Agile ... of the ... until he/she ... doesn't ... In an earlier post I said saying that Scrum had limited scope might be a better choice...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway
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May 24, 2008
7:01 pm

Perhaps we should take that as a backhanded compliment. my·op'ic: A visual defect in which distant objects appear blurred because their images are focused in...
woynam
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May 21, 2008
7:00 pm

With this project (the one I originally posted on) the Statement of Work with the big 3 consulting firm made no sense. I used this opportunity to implement a...
Robin Dymond
rdymond1
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May 21, 2008
10:13 pm

Hi Robin Is this agile contract of yours able to be made available to the group? If not, could you provide the key points that the contract consisted of? This...
Jo Newcombe Cook
jo_visionnz
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May 21, 2008
10:53 pm

(responding to Mark) ... I believe that one of the essential aspects of agility is growing the ability to deal with an ever larger range of risks as they...
Paul Oldfield
pauloldfield1
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May 22, 2008
7:52 am

... on ... aren't ... I actually have never said (and wouldn't say) Scrum is short- sighted. I believe it is right sighted. That is, it looks the right ...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway
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May 24, 2008
7:04 pm

... beginning of ... I've found that a significant improvement can be made if you get people away from thinking that they are purchasing a product and move...
Huet Landry
huetlandry
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May 20, 2008
11:35 am

Hi Huet, I suppose you are talking about SaaS <http://www.g4s.com/home.htm> Best Regards, Jaideep ...
Jaideep Khanduja
jaideepkhanduja
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May 20, 2008
11:41 am

... Hi Landry, This is interesting! Can you elaborate more on what you mean by goal? Do you have any work or findings on the above which proves your claim....
Namgyal Damdul
damdulin
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May 21, 2008
1:42 pm

This is an interesting and valid point ... customers are purchasing a development activity, not a product. It is not like buying a car ... it is like...
Roy Morien
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May 26, 2008
2:03 am

... I believe the analogy in itself to be true, but contrary to these people you describe, I believe that the analogy only proves the case for iterative/agile ...
Nina Niskanen
mokso1
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May 26, 2008
9:40 am

The FAA publishes the findings of its investigations online, at http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/. Pretty sobering reading, but there's a lot of good...
Greg Holling
gholling2002
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May 19, 2008
4:49 pm

Re reading this thread has made me wonder has anyone considered a repository for documenting failures? Perhaps the scrum alliance pbwiki even if all we did was...
Mark Levison
marklevison
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Jul 5, 2008
12:18 pm
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