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RUP and Agile   Message List  
Reply Message #17558 of 45100 |
RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: RUP and Agile

Actually, I’ll neither apologize nor justify; Instead, I’ll fret then ignore.

 

Scrum is a really simple thing with lots of missing parts that best practices, including those from XP fill in. The fill in, though, is at the call of the self-managing organization, nor as stated by experts. This was why, at first glance, I was excited about RUP – I thought it was a hypertext repository of best practices.

 

The work of implementing Scrum is to upgrade professional and engineering practices to build high quality software. And, to change the customer/product manager relationship so they know how to own the project. And, to change the enterprise so that it optimizes rather than degrades productivity and return on investment. Quite a big challenge.

 

As I see methodologist flock to restate Scrum in their own terms, I know that they have missed the point. Rather than focusing outwards at the problems of being a better profession and helping our customers get more, better, quicker … they are focused on perfecting a methodology. This is Frederick Taylor, expert definition of the process. This misses the whole point of Agile and Scrum, that top-down expert driven processes aren’t as “Agile” as empirical, inspect and adapt, lean processes.

 

I knew that we’d have this problem as methodologists studies on how to remain relevant. I will do what I can to minimize the damage, however. I remember XP smells; an Agile and Scrum smell is when a for-profit corporation backs initiatives to build methodologies.

 

Scrum is a movement, not an organization. I recommend that those who want to build methodologies leave Scrum alone to those of us with a different mission and understanding. No more “plug-in’s.” If you want to build a methodology, do it from scratch or other best practices, rather than parsing, restating, and re-interpreting something that stands on its own and doesn’t need any more help.

 

In the early 1990’s, my company developed and provided to IBM, Coopers&Lybrand, and numerous individual companies a process automation software package, MATE, that automated methodologies and made them functional to developers, project managers, and process experts. You could even have called MATE a framework. My hope was that this would make methodologies easier to use. I was at a training class for a company that was going to use Summit-D on MATE, and overheard one lead developer say, “Gee, we have to do this, also, in addition to building software!”  Instead of building something that helped methodologies, I facilitated what one person called, a pig on rollerskates. Still a pig, just faster. I suggest that the frameworks that are coming out are along the same lines. The only exception that I’ve seen to date was Conchango’s use of VSTS, which was exceptionally well crafted as “guidance.”

 

So, leave us alone.

Ken

 


From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ambler
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 10:27 AM
To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: RUP and Agile

 

--- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Schwaber"

Ken, words such as plagiarism and theft are clearly inappropriate,
inflammatory, and just plain inaccurate.

The reason why people describe Scrum within the context of other
processes, such as XP or RUP or FDD, is because Scrum only addresses
a subset of the issues which development teams face. People have to
fill in the blanks.

If you were to take a look at the work being done you would see that
proper attribution was being giving to the appropriate sources. If
this isn't the case, and I'm sure that a few mistakes have been made
because people are only human after all, then please contact the
authors and I'm sure that they'll address the problem. Furthermore,
the Eclipse licensing process is very strict, the authors must vouch
that they own any material being donated to Eclipse. If I'm not
mistaken Ron was recently contacted about this sort of issue for
some material that he authored in the past.

Ken, if you disagree with what I've said here, can you provide any
examples at all regarding theft and plagiarism? It seems to me that
concerning the nature of the blanket statement that you've made, you
should either justify it or you should apologize for making it.

- Scott

<ken.schwaber@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder why people feel the need to describe Scrum within the
context of
> something else. Scrum is already well described. I also wonder
about people
> misdescribing Scrum, and why they just don't describe something on
their own
> rather than using the word Scrum. Feel free to roll your own;
please don't
> use a well-recognized name and set of practices (minimal though
they may be)
> to say something else. That strikes me as plagiarism and theft.
>
> Ken



Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:53 pm

kschwaber
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Message #17558 of 45100 |
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Well said David! ... if ... the ... beings, not ... sometimes ... pitching ... bear. I'm ... the ... opinion ... pisses ... list....
wdrwilson
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Dec 1, 2006
3:38 am

Actually, I'll neither apologize nor justify; Instead, I'll fret then ignore. Scrum is a really simple thing with lots of missing parts that best practices,...
Ken Schwaber
kschwaber
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Nov 26, 2006
4:59 pm

(responding to Mike V) ... That doesn't seem right to me. I seem to remember he joined when Ken was comparing methodologies and reporting unfavourably on his...
Oldfield, Paul (ASPIRE)
paul_oldfiel...
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Dec 1, 2006
8:01 am

I have heard a rising number of complaints from people trying to learn how to use Scrum that this egroup seems geared toward discussions between experts, and...
Ken Schwaber
kschwaber
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Dec 1, 2006
12:58 pm

Another short thought. For those of you who are ScrumMasters, is your job to remove impediments and to stop predators from detracting the team from its ...
Ken Schwaber
kschwaber
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Dec 1, 2006
1:23 pm

... The word predators sounds pretty strong. And I don't think open conversation is usually considered an "impediment". Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com How...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Dec 1, 2006
5:56 pm

People who constantly change the subject can be impediments. I didn't follow the thread closely enough to know if the person who was banned "did" that. But I...
Stephen Bobick
sbobick2
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Dec 1, 2006
6:14 pm

Ron, Lots of open discussions are good. During a daily scrum, however, we limit discussion to the sprint being done by the developers. During the sprint...
Ken Schwaber
kschwaber
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Dec 1, 2006
11:53 pm

... The Scrum has rules, the questions three. This list isn't quite so structured, nor IMO should it be. I agree that Scott appeared to be selling...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Dec 2, 2006
12:30 am

Ken, Where does this analogy to the daily scrum come from? The analogy to a sprint/release/project retrospective is much closer, but virtually everyone here is...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Dec 2, 2006
5:37 am

This thread started out as a request for info from Nam. Nam has experience in RUP and requested help in mapping RUP and Agile. I'm not so sure how well we...
Dion Stewart
touchgtr
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Dec 2, 2006
12:08 am

Fair enough. I'll disagree that banning someone is in line with "keeping to an agenda, keeping a focus, etc.", and to be honest I don't see this "list" as a...
David Morash
david_morash
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Dec 2, 2006
12:40 am

Ron, Lots of open discussions are good. During a daily scrum, however, we limit discussion to the sprint being done by the developers. During the sprint ...
Ken Schwaber
kschwaber
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Dec 2, 2006
12:02 am

... Those of us practicing Scrum on a daily basis, who look to this list for practical answers to their daily questions and actually implement ideas that they...
David A Barrett
barrettdab
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Dec 4, 2006
3:59 pm
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