The Scout's Reciter (And Elocutionary Instructor) - 1922 - by A.J.
Etherington

(can be found in the "Scout" section)

Grumpy
===============================
Traditional Scouting resources at "The Dump"
http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/

Now 296 titles ready for free download.

Scouting And Youth Movements - 1929 - by B-P.

An Old Wolf's Favourites - Animals I Have Known - 1922 - by B-P.

(can be found in the "Other" section)

Grumpy
===============================
Traditional Scouting resources at "The Dump"
http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/

Now 295 titles ready for free download.

Quick Training In War - by B.-P. - 1914

(can be found in the "Other" section)

Grumpy
===============================
Traditional Scouting resources at "The Dump"
http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/

Now 293 titles ready for free download.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

2009-11-17 07:58-0500 Gerry Boire <gboire@...> wrote: [...]
>Where can I find the information relating to the issuance of neckers.
>It is my understanding that it is SC policy to issue the necker
>immediately, and that the epaulettes are the sign that someone is
>invested.  However I can't seem to find the info anywhere in the BP&P,
>or on the SC site. [...]

We present neckers as part of investiture. The necker is a more valuable
symbol of being part of the troop if one needs to work to earn it.

YIS
Liam

- --
Liam Morland <Liam@...>        Canadian Scout Camps Directory
http://Liam.Morland.ca/                 http://ScoutDocs.ca/Camps/

PGP Public Key: http://Liam.Morland.ca/public-key.pgp

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAksDL1IACgkQgtUMElSxnjel1QCfYQmIWE3hVlahH8rgqhgOmian
gmcAn3QmWJiNk8CMbIL010e1HU7Y/Z90
=aqky
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

This was forwarded to me by one of my Scouters:

Scouts Canada
has applied to Aviva for support of the NOLB (a fund that provides financial
assistance to join scouting).


This is a legitimate fundraising opportunity that only
requires you to provide an email address that will not make its way into
cyberspace.

If this idea receives enough votes, it will have a chance at
sharing in $500,000 of funding.

Scouts Canada
would really appreciate your help in pushing this idea to the finals.

Please vote for it at  http://www.avivacommunityfund.org/ideas/acf4082

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This isn't something that has or requires a policy.  It is a group decision and
is typically based on tradition, as can be seen by the variety of responses
already.

Garth
Alberta



--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, "geraldboire" <gboire@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is an argument that I have been asked to resolve regarding neckers.  I
know the answer, but can seem to find the documentation to back it up.
>
> Where can I find the information relating to the issuance of neckers.  It is
my understanding that it is SC policy to issue the necker immediately, and that
the epaulettes are the sign that someone is invested.  However I can't seem to
find the info anywhere in the BP&P, or on the SC site.
>
> HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLP!!!!!!!
>
> I know someone out there knows where it is. :)
>
> Thanks
>

Our group gives the necker and the epaulettes at investiture.  It shows
that in the handbooks, and it makes the kids realize that they are full
members of scouting when they get both.  They keep the same necker from
beavers on through the sections.

We try and get out kids investited before Rememberance Day as we take
part in a parade.

Allan Yates wrote:

>
>
> For us in Scouts, if somebody is new to Scouting they get their necker
> when they are invested (along with their epaulets). If they are already
> in Scouting (i.e. moving from section to section), then they keep their
> necker and just get their epaulets when they are invested in their new
> section. In Cubs they get their white chum necker right away, and their
> epaulets when invested.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of geraldboire
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:59 AM
> To: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [ScoutsCan-L] A question re: neckers
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is an argument that I have been asked to resolve regarding
> neckers. I know the answer, but can seem to find the documentation to
> back it up.
>
> Where can I find the information relating to the issuance of neckers.
> It is my understanding that it is SC policy to issue the necker
> immediately, and that the epaulettes are the sign that someone is
> invested. However I can't seem to find the info anywhere in the BP&P,
> or on the SC site.
>
> HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLP!!!!!!!
>
> I know someone out there knows where it is. :)
>
> Thanks
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> This discussion group is governed by a really BIG, mean, and grumpy
> ogre, with a large club!
>
> Sponsored by:
> ScoutsCan.com - Scouting in Canada (www.scoutscan.com)
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subscribe: scoutscan-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
> Unsubscribe: scoutscan-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
> List owner: scoutscan-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.groups.yahoo.com/community/scoutscan-lYahoo
> <http://www.groups.yahoo.com/community/scoutscan-lYahoo>! Groups Links
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For us in Scouts, if somebody is new to Scouting they get their necker
when they are invested (along with their epaulets). If they are already
in Scouting (i.e. moving from section to section), then they keep their
necker and just get their epaulets when they are invested in their new
section. In Cubs they get their white chum necker right away, and their
epaulets when invested.

-----Original Message-----
From: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of geraldboire
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:59 AM
To: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ScoutsCan-L] A question re: neckers

Hi all,

There is an argument that I have been asked to resolve regarding
neckers.  I know the answer, but can seem to find the documentation to
back it up.

Where can I find the information relating to the issuance of neckers.
It is my understanding that it is SC policy to issue the necker
immediately, and that the epaulettes are the sign that someone is
invested.  However I can't seem to find the info anywhere in the BP&P,
or on the SC site.

HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLP!!!!!!!

I know someone out there knows where it is. :)

Thanks



------------------------------------

This discussion group is governed by a really BIG, mean, and grumpy
ogre, with a large club!

Sponsored by:
   ScoutsCan.com - Scouting in Canada (www.scoutscan.com)

Community email addresses:
   Post message: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    scoutscan-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  scoutscan-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   scoutscan-l-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://www.groups.yahoo.com/community/scoutscan-lYahoo! Groups Links

--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, "geraldboire" <gboire@...> wrote:
> There is an argument that I have been asked to resolve regarding neckers.
> I know the answer, but can seem to find the documentation to back it up.
> Where can I find the information relating to the issuance of neckers.
> It is my understanding that it is SC policy to issue the necker immediately,
> and that the epaulettes are the sign that someone is invested.
> However I can't seem to find the info anywhere in the BP&P,
> or on the SC site.
>
It isn't a matter of being invested or not, since as you say there IS an
Investiture badge - in many cases this is the epaulettes.
The necker can be worn OVER the winter clothing, so it is a good identifier
for youth who are in Scouting, and more specifically, in your Group.

In September and early October I can have 4 or 5 Troop outdoor activities
before a youth completes the investiture requirements.  Their uniform
looks incomplete without a necker on Apple Day.  It is also a strong
tie (sic) to the Group so the youth feel a stronger immediate sense of
belonging.   Make up a special ceremony for awarding a necker.

I don't really like the epaulettes as an investiture badge, since a parent
can buy them at the Scout Shop.  We award an Arrowhead (Tenderfoot)
badge for the left pocket at investiture.  Mom can't buy that anywhere!

Hi all,

There is an argument that I have been asked to resolve regarding neckers.  I
know the answer, but can seem to find the documentation to back it up.

Where can I find the information relating to the issuance of neckers.  It is my
understanding that it is SC policy to issue the necker immediately, and that the
epaulettes are the sign that someone is invested.  However I can't seem to find
the info anywhere in the BP&P, or on the SC site.

HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLP!!!!!!!

I know someone out there knows where it is. :)

Thanks

Fellow Scouters, a very worth while issue.


From: John Rietveld
Thanks and to really make this sing send it to all the people on your
lists.
  John


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Errol Feldman
Done
   From: Chief Scout Association
   Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:24 PM
   To: Errol Feldman
   Subject: Vote Please!


   Hello fellow CSA Scouters and Supporters of Scouts Canada:


   I'm supporting an idea in the Aviva Community Fund, a competition
that could result in positive change in communities across Canada. If
the idea I'm supporting receives enough votes, it will have a chance at
sharing in $500,000 of funding. I would really appreciate your help in
pushing this idea to the finals.


   I think No One Left Behind is the kind of program deserving of this
level of support. Please take a few minutes to visit the site and to
vote for No One Left Behind.


   Please vote for it at http://www.avivacommunityfund.org/ideas/acf4082


   Thanks in advance.


   John Rietveld

   Scouts Canada Foundation

   Unsubscribe


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Remembrance Day

World War I
World War II
They fought for us,
Our freedom grew,
And when they died,
We all sighed,
And wore poppies all day,
To say "Thank You" in a respectful way.
They fought for us for freedom to get,
"Lest We Forget"

Chloe

Please participate in your community's ceremony.
We owe our veterans a debt of gratitude that we can show through our
support.
YiTS,
Ric

That is exactly how we do it in our troop of 9.  We have 2 patrols, who each
elect their PL.  The PL then is given the opportunity to pick their APL. 
Afterall they want someone whom they can trust, and work with.  We just let them
know that the stripes are not permanent, and that they slide off just as easily
as they slid on.  Ultimately it is the COH that will decide, if removal of
stripes is warrented.

Gerry

--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ric" <rric14@...> wrote:
>
> --- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <jstewart@> wrote:
> >> We do have patrols and a COH.   What we don't do is have elections for the
PL and APL.  Are elections viable when you only have 4 or 5 scouts per patrol?
> > >
> Why not? If it serves nothing else other than to reinforce their leader, it
then becomes their choice. We do not elect the Second (APL), we allow the PL to
choose their second.
> YiS
> Ric
>

--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <jstewart@...> wrote:
>> We do have patrols and a COH.   What we don't do is have elections for the PL
and APL.  Are elections viable when you only have 4 or 5 scouts per patrol?
> >
Why not? If it serves nothing else other than to reinforce their leader, it then
becomes their choice. We do not elect the Second (APL), we allow the PL to
choose their second.
YiS
Ric

Ric wrote:
>
>
> --- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>, "John A. Stewart"
> <jstewart@...> wrote:
> > I don't think we could do that since our troop is too small (around
> 10 at the moment).
>
> We all know how difficult it is to attract the older youth these days,
> but our Troops have 12 each with 2 Patrols each (Boy Troop and Girl
> Troop). There are two Courts of Honour and they do invite the Seconds
> (APLs) as well from time to time. For combined activities, like summer
> camp, they have one CoH and elect a Troop Leader.
> If you want to keep the youth you have, you have to make it THEIR
> Troop. It is difficult at first, especially if you are used to working
> with Cubs, but the Patrol system is the only system.
> YiS,
>

We do have patrols and a COH.   What we don't do is have elections for
the PL and APL.  Are elections viable when you only have 4 or 5 scouts
per patrol?
>
>
>


--
John Stewart -- Mathematics & Statistics, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@...   613-520-2600x3707
"Take time to stop and pick the blueberries."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

2009-09-26 17:44-0400 Ric <rric14@...> wrote: [...]
>If you want to keep the youth you have, you have to make it THEIR
>Troop. [...]

Yes, it is THEIR troop, but it is also their TROOP. What's the
difference? If you tell a bunch of Scouts, particularly new ones, the
troop will do whatever they want, you will likely end up with a lot of
movie nights and cabin "camps" with delivered pizza. Such a program may
be "theirs" but it doesn't make a "troop".

Scouting unlocks in people strengths they never knew they had. A troop
needs to challenge the Scouts so that they find and develop their
strengths and have real achievements.

The first time I took my troop on a bike hike, they had not asked for
it. I just planned it and took them. Afterwards, they said it was the
best Scout camp they had ever been on.

There is wide latitude for Scouts to plan their own programs: Bike,
hike, or canoe? Tents, quinzhees, or Adirondacks? This planning must be
done in a framework that ensures the program is still a challenging
Scouting program. This is easier when a troop has more experienced
Scouts who can know the sorts of things that make good Scouting.

Here is another way of looking at it: A 12 year-old signs up for a
competitive soccer team. At practise, coach say, "OK guys, what do you
wanna do?" So they kick the ball around a bit then chill out for the
rest of practise. Everyone has fun, but they are not achieving anything.

Is this likely to happen? No. The team will show up at practise and
coach will have a plan for some challenging skill development leading to
achievement. That's what the team signed up for.

So it should be with Scouting. Scouts need to take hold of much of the
planning, but the Scouts signed up for Scouting, which means an active
outdoor adventure. We need to deliver on that promise.

I have written more about this here:

http://scoutdocs.ca/Documents/Youth_Input.php

YIS
Liam

- --
Liam Morland <Liam@...>        Canadian Scout Camps Directory
http://Liam.Morland.ca/                 http://ScoutDocs.ca/Camps/

PGP Public Key: http://Liam.Morland.ca/public-key.pgp

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkq/rm8ACgkQgtUMElSxnjfxwgCdEzkVL7SwxZOaXDOnhz+aL8DM
eXoAoMahcUFcs2cORB+t8F0DKwAkUQHR
=ADmD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Stewart" <jstewart@...> wrote:
> I don't think we could do that since our troop is too small (around 10 at the
moment).

We all know how difficult it is to attract the older youth these days, but our
Troops have 12 each with 2 Patrols each (Boy Troop and Girl Troop). There are
two Courts of Honour and they do invite the Seconds (APLs) as well from time to
time. For combined activities, like summer camp, they have one CoH and elect a
Troop Leader.
If you want to keep the youth you have, you have to make it THEIR Troop. It is
difficult at first, especially if you are used to working with Cubs, but the
Patrol system is the only system.
YiS,
Ric

With all due respect, I don't think that this decision is yours to
make. That's up to each individual Patrol to decide who they want as
Leader. You may be wrong about the Boy if he actually gets the chance
to lead; but the point is that it is NOT your decision.
YiS
Errol
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Shawn Vike" <shawn.vike@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:45 PM
To: <scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ScoutsCan-L] Re: Help for a New Scout leader

> What is wrong with using the same PL and APL as last year?
> If they functioned well, you do not have to change them. Not every
> youth has
> the skills or interest to be in leadership, so don't try to make sure
> that
> everyone gets their turn, develop those who show promise and work in
> other
> ways with those who couldn't lead their way out of a paper bag.
>
> We have 3 patrols this year. One of our PLs was new last year, but
> has great
> potential. We have more experienced scouts that would not function in
> a PL
> role.
>
> Shawn
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Valinda <heart3300@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas. I have lots of reading
>> ahead
>> of me.
>>
>> I noticed that the scout troop only used one scout for flag break
>> last
>> year, so I'll probably keep with that. But they did nothing else, so
>> I'm going to implement the Promise after flag break, and for closing
>> do
>> the Scout Vespers, as that's we closed our Cub pack meetings, and
>> it's a
>> nice touch.
>>
>> I know my sons troop last year had a small group, and they did the 1
>> patrol thing as well. And at camps they just split the patrol, 1/2
>> did
>> the cooking, and 1/2 did the washing and alternated through camp
>> that
>> way. I still have to find out who were the patrol leaders last year
>> with the group, so I don't duplicate the same ones this year.
>>
>>
>> Ric wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com <scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com
>> > <scoutscan-l%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
>> Liam Morland <Liam@...> wrote:
>> > > A version of the ceremony is here:
>> > >
>> > That's the way we do it, except that we call the Duty Patrol
>> > rather
>> > than the Colour Party. And we sing O Canada when Scout A&B have
>> > retaken their place in the horseshoe.
>> >
>> > > >We're not having patrols, as there isn't enough kids to do one.
>> >
>> > Then have one Patrol, one is better than none. At least then you
>> > can
>> > still use the Patrol System (Scoutmaster teaches the Patrol
>> > Leader,
>> > Patrol Leader teaches the Patrol - promotes leadership and
>> > loyalty.
>> >
>> > OR,
>> >
>> > Look at "Working the Patrol System"
>> > http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf
>> > <http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf> if you are up to
>> > the
>> > challenge. E.E. Reynolds explains how to start to build a Troop
>> > with a
>> > half a dozen boys. Its a great read either way.
>> >
>> > Ric
>> >
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Shawn Vike
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> This discussion group is governed by a really BIG, mean, and grumpy
> ogre, with a large club!
>
> Sponsored by:
>  ScoutsCan.com - Scouting in Canada (www.scoutscan.com)
>
> Community email addresses:
>  Post message: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
>  Subscribe:    scoutscan-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  Unsubscribe:  scoutscan-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  List owner:   scoutscan-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.groups.yahoo.com/community/scoutscan-lYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, Shawn Vike  wrote:
> What is wrong with using the same PL and APL as last year?
Nothing, if their Patrol elects them.  Everything if the Troop Scouter
decided they were the PL/APL......

> If they functioned well, you do not have to change them.
> Not every youth has the skills or interest to be in leadership,
> so don't try to make sure that everyone gets their turn,
> develop those who show promise and work in other ways with
>  those who couldn't lead their way out of a paper bag.

The selection of a PL isn't for the convenience of the TS.
It's the TS's job to train whoever the Patrol chooses.
How can you use the Scout Method if you don't hang your
hat on the Patrol System?  It's not "one way".  It's the only way!
Liam argues with me about my (sometimes) 11 year old PLs.
But what are you going to do?
If they throw rice - make Rice Pudding.

At our Troop meeting tonight, Patrols were re-aligned (shuffled).
No advice or instructions from Skip.  They just did it.  New alliances
after Summer Camp.  Mutual interests or friendships.  Whatever.
Next week - PL elections.  The next day - off on a 2 day hiking camp.
We tested one-burner stoves and cooked a stew for practise.  Yum!
Investiture training.  Lit fires on aluminum foil in the Parking Lot.
Sharpened knives.  Waterproofed matches,  Learned the uses of a
few knots and how to tie them.  Not a "crutch" game in the bunch.
Next week - repack backpacks, repackage food, footwear and footcare,
Bruce Trail knowledge.  Last-minute stuff.  Keep 'em busy.
And lean hard on the new PLs.

What is wrong with using the same PL and APL as last year?
If they functioned well, you do not have to change them. Not every youth has
the skills or interest to be in leadership, so don't try to make sure that
everyone gets their turn, develop those who show promise and work in other
ways with those who couldn't lead their way out of a paper bag.

We have 3 patrols this year. One of our PLs was new last year, but has great
potential. We have more experienced scouts that would not function in  a PL
role.

Shawn

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Valinda <heart3300@...> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas. I have lots of reading ahead
> of me.
>
> I noticed that the scout troop only used one scout for flag break last
> year, so I'll probably keep with that. But they did nothing else, so
> I'm going to implement the Promise after flag break, and for closing do
> the Scout Vespers, as that's we closed our Cub pack meetings, and it's a
> nice touch.
>
> I know my sons troop last year had a small group, and they did the 1
> patrol thing as well. And at camps they just split the patrol, 1/2 did
> the cooking, and 1/2 did the washing and alternated through camp that
> way. I still have to find out who were the patrol leaders last year
> with the group, so I don't duplicate the same ones this year.
>
>
> Ric wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com <scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com <scoutscan-l%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
> Liam Morland <Liam@...> wrote:
> > > A version of the ceremony is here:
> > >
> > That's the way we do it, except that we call the Duty Patrol rather
> > than the Colour Party. And we sing O Canada when Scout A&B have
> > retaken their place in the horseshoe.
> >
> > > >We're not having patrols, as there isn't enough kids to do one.
> >
> > Then have one Patrol, one is better than none. At least then you can
> > still use the Patrol System (Scoutmaster teaches the Patrol Leader,
> > Patrol Leader teaches the Patrol - promotes leadership and loyalty.
> >
> > OR,
> >
> > Look at "Working the Patrol System"
> > http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf
> > <http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf> if you are up to the
> > challenge. E.E. Reynolds explains how to start to build a Troop with a
> > half a dozen boys. Its a great read either way.
> >
> > Ric
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Shawn Vike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Allan Yates wrote:
>
>
> While Liam and Dennis run their troops with PL elections, COH, etc. I
> wonder
> what percentage of troops do this?
>




I don't think we could do that since our troop is too small (around 10
at the moment).  Of course that is another good point that Liam makes --
a Scout troop should have at least 20 scouts.

--
John Stewart -- Mathematics & Statistics, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@...                       613-520-2600x3707
"Take time to stop and pick the blueberries."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, "Allan Yates"  wrote:
> While Liam and Dennis run their troops with PL elections, COH, etc.
> I wonder what percentage of troops do this?
> I think Liam needs to go back for his Phd and write another membership
> retention thesis :)   Allan.

More than you might think.  Far less than should do.  I truly
believe that the Scout Method runs my Troop, not me.  You haven't
lived until an 11 year old PL stands up at CoH and gives you hell
for something.  There is genuine trust in this relationship.

I think folks should first read (and apply) the lessons from Liam's
first essays.  I don't always agree with his methods, but I sure
agree with his Scout Spirit.  After all, if you develop that Scout Spirit
in youth, then all else will follow.  Has to.
Dennis

While Liam and Dennis run their troops with PL elections, COH, etc. I wonder
what percentage of troops do this?

I think Liam needs to go back for his Phd and write another membership
retention thesis :)


Allan.

-----Original Message-----
From: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Liam Morland
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:52 AM
To: scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ScoutsCan-L] Help for a New Scout leader

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

2009-09-23 16:05-0400 Valinda <heart3300@...> wrote: [...]
>I still have to find out who were the patrol leaders last year with the
>group, so I don't duplicate the same ones this year.

Scouts should elect their own patrol leaders.

YIS
Liam

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

2009-09-23 16:05-0400 Valinda <heart3300@...> wrote: [...]
>I still have to find out who were the patrol leaders last year with the
>group, so I don't duplicate the same ones this year.

Scouts should elect their own patrol leaders.

YIS
Liam

- --
Liam Morland <Liam@...>        Canadian Scout Camps Directory
http://Liam.Morland.ca/                 http://ScoutDocs.ca/Camps/

PGP Public Key: http://Liam.Morland.ca/public-key.pgp

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkq7lacACgkQgtUMElSxnjdi8QCfWWkMflm2t6pdKV2w3HTove0c
z1UAn1IRXFBrmPCzjrvOV7YjtC1+QTbj
=DQZM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Also make sure you're doing a Scouters' Five in order to have a spiritual
thought/reflection at the end, preferably one that relates to what was worked on
that day.

Garth
Alberta



--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, Valinda <heart3300@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas.  I have lots of reading ahead
> of me.
>
> I noticed that the scout troop only used one scout for flag break last
> year, so I'll probably keep with that.  But they did nothing else, so
> I'm going to implement the Promise after flag break, and for closing do
> the Scout Vespers, as that's we closed our Cub pack meetings, and it's a
> nice touch.
>
> I know my sons troop last year had a small group, and they did the 1
> patrol thing as well.  And at camps they just split the patrol, 1/2 did
> the cooking, and 1/2 did the washing and alternated through camp that
> way.  I still have to find out who were the patrol leaders last year
> with the group, so I don't duplicate the same ones this year.
>
> Ric wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>, Liam Morland <Liam@> wrote:
> > > A version of the ceremony is here:
> > >
> > That's the way we do it, except that we call the Duty Patrol rather
> > than the Colour Party. And we sing O Canada when Scout A&B have
> > retaken their place in the horseshoe.
> >
> > > >We're not having patrols, as there isn't enough kids to do one.
> >
> > Then have one Patrol, one is better than none. At least then you can
> > still use the Patrol System (Scoutmaster teaches the Patrol Leader,
> > Patrol Leader teaches the Patrol - promotes leadership and loyalty.
> >
> > OR,
> >
> > Look at "Working the Patrol System"
> > http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf
> > <http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf> if you are up to the
> > challenge. E.E. Reynolds explains how to start to build a Troop with a
> > half a dozen boys. Its a great read either way.
> >
> > Ric
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas.  I have lots of reading ahead
of me.

I noticed that the scout troop only used one scout for flag break last
year, so I'll probably keep with that.  But they did nothing else, so
I'm going to implement the Promise after flag break, and for closing do
the Scout Vespers, as that's we closed our Cub pack meetings, and it's a
nice touch.

I know my sons troop last year had a small group, and they did the 1
patrol thing as well.  And at camps they just split the patrol, 1/2 did
the cooking, and 1/2 did the washing and alternated through camp that
way.  I still have to find out who were the patrol leaders last year
with the group, so I don't duplicate the same ones this year.

Ric wrote:

>
>
> --- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>, Liam Morland <Liam@...> wrote:
> > A version of the ceremony is here:
> >
> That's the way we do it, except that we call the Duty Patrol rather
> than the Colour Party. And we sing O Canada when Scout A&B have
> retaken their place in the horseshoe.
>
> > >We're not having patrols, as there isn't enough kids to do one.
>
> Then have one Patrol, one is better than none. At least then you can
> still use the Patrol System (Scoutmaster teaches the Patrol Leader,
> Patrol Leader teaches the Patrol - promotes leadership and loyalty.
>
> OR,
>
> Look at "Working the Patrol System"
> http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf
> <http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf> if you are up to the
> challenge. E.E. Reynolds explains how to start to build a Troop with a
> half a dozen boys. Its a great read either way.
>
> Ric
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com, Liam Morland <Liam@...> wrote:
> A version of the ceremony is here:
>
That's the way we do it, except that we call the Duty Patrol rather than the
Colour Party. And we sing O Canada when Scout A&B have retaken their place in
the horseshoe.


> >We're not having patrols, as there isn't enough kids to do one.

Then have one Patrol, one is better than none. At least then you can still use
the Patrol System (Scoutmaster teaches the Patrol Leader, Patrol Leader teaches
the Patrol - promotes leadership and loyalty.

OR,

Look at "Working the Patrol System" http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/working.pdf
if you are up to the challenge. E.E. Reynolds explains how to start to build a
Troop with a half a dozen boys. Its a great read either way.

Ric

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

2009-09-21 22:41-0400 Valinda <heart3300@...> wrote: [...]
>And Nope, I don't know how to do a flag break, as it's never used in
>our beavers or Cubs, and I'm semi-new to Scouts.

That makes sense: Beavers have their tail-slap, Cubs the Grand Howl, and
Scouts flag break; each has their own unique ceremony.

>i'm going to ask the returning scouts if any of them remember, but
>would also like to know in case they can't remember, so we're all not
>just standing there with question marks on our faces.

A version of the ceremony is here:

http://scoutdocs.ca/Documents/Flag_Break.php

>We're not having patrols, as there isn't enough kids to do one.  And
>we're waiting for the other groups in our service area to have their
>registrations and get their numbers in.  Then I'll contact the area
>commissioner for scouts and see if there is another small troop in the
>area and link with them. [...]

Or link with a big troop. If you have five and they have 15, make it 20.
That's enough for three patrols. As recently as the 1980s, it was
considered normal for troops to have 25 Scouts. Today, the average is
around 10 Scouts per troop, and we are weaker for it.

YIS
Liam

- --
Liam Morland <Liam@...>        Canadian Scout Camps Directory
http://Liam.Morland.ca/                 http://ScoutDocs.ca/Camps/

PGP Public Key: http://Liam.Morland.ca/public-key.pgp

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkq6b7wACgkQgtUMElSxnjeWhgCdF0xZs80nHQtxxOu4wFy4Elt2
XaoAn1Eo7cSHmjd/7cE9mUSHLWp1Zjb8
=ue+V
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Well i figured it would stay with group tradition, and continue the flag
break.  I personally think it adds that perfect touch to opening.

I just have to figure out how I want opening and closing to be like.
Since last years leader is not returning, and the other leaders really
didn't participate.  There's no one to tell me how they did things, so I
have a blank slate to begin with.  Will more than likely go according to
the scout leader handbook.

Val

scoutleader101 wrote:

>
>
> Val,
>
> In Canada there is no set or established formal method for how the
> flag is to be folded in preparation for breaking. There is also no
> rule or etiquette that states a flag has to be broken, ie. you can
> simply raise it unfurled if desired. As long as the wooden toggle is
> upwards so you'll know the flag won't be upside down, you can fold it
> anyway you like.
>
> That said, there's lots of resources on various web sites. Here's a
> video I found:
> http://www.ehow.com/video_4973883_fold-canadian-flag.html
> <http://www.ehow.com/video_4973883_fold-canadian-flag.html>
>
> Garth
> Alberta
>
> --- In scoutscan-l@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:scoutscan-l%40yahoogroups.com>, Valinda <heart3300@...> wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I've been through the Leaders handbook, and the scout book, and
> > the field book, and online, and i can't find directions on how to fold
> > and tie the flag for opening flag break.
> >
> > I have a funny feeling my scouts will be rusty, and I would like to
> know
> > as well. Any help will be appreciated.
> >
> > And one other question, now that we've had a initial registration. I
> > have only 4 scouts returning (possibly 5). Right now i have three 3rd
> > years, and one 1st year scout. We're planning on getting the 3rd year
> > cubs up early in the new year, so we'll have a bigger group.
> >
> > Now, there is are 2 scouts who need their voyageaur award yet, and the
> > other 2 are working on their pathfinder. How can I do a section on both
> > Voy/Path, without boring the other kids who've already done that????
> > Could the get the other 2 to sorta teach those other sections to the
> > ones who don't have it???
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Scouter Val
> >
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the info, it does help.

And Nope, I don't know how to do a flag break, as it's never used in our
beavers or Cubs, and I'm semi-new to Scouts.  i'm going to ask the
returning scouts if any of them remember, but would also like to know in
case they can't remember, so we're all not just standing there with
question marks on our faces.

We're not having  patrols, as there isn't enough kids to do one.  And
we're waiting for the other groups in our service area to have their
registrations and get their numbers in.  Then I'll contact the area
commissioner for scouts and see if there is another small troop in the
area and link with them.

It's going to be a challenge this year for sure.  But hopefully if the
kids enjoy the program, word will get around, and kids will start
joining back up in our troop.  I figured the only way we can go is UP.
We lost 4 scouts that aren't returning this year, and only one cub
walked up last year.

Just have to make this year count so the kids want to join our group.

Grumpy Ogre wrote:

>
>
> > Okay, I've been through the Leaders handbook, and the scout
> > book, and the field book, and online, and i can't find
> > directions on how to fold and tie the flag for opening flag break.
>
> >From "The Gateway To All The Scout Tests" by A. V. Brook and W. Hamblin
> (p.13)
>
> http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/Doc1.doc
> <http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/Doc1.doc> (from The Dump)
>
> > I have a funny feeling my scouts will be rusty, and I would
> > like to know as well. Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Does that mean that you do not know, and could not show them?
>
> > We're planning on getting the 3rd year cubs up early in the
> > new year, so we'll have a bigger group.
>
> Either quickly get more youth, or twin with another group.
>
> > Could the get the other 2 to sorta teach those other sections
> > to the ones who don't have it???
>
> Use the Patrol System!!!!!!!
>
> Grumpy
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]