I cannot see a case where a tour permit would be required.  The idea
of Patrol Camping would be for the patrol to either travel by foot or
be dropped of by a parent -- the camp out should not be that far away
from the area that the troop serves, and be in a location that
assistance could be provided should any emergency occur.
Requirements for drivers would limit the scouts from driving as a
group, and the two-deep adult leadership would have to be addressed
in the event that transportation would be required.

Don Wilson

To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
From: "Robert Wilson" <fishnscout@...>
Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:36:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping
Send reply to: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com

> How does this work with Tour Permits and the requirements for that?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2008 5:20 PM, joedet <joedet@...> wrote:
>
> > In going over the YPT video we came upon the Patrol Camping comment.
> >
> > The question I have is.
> >
> > Does anyone know of a Scoutmaster that has approved this and how did it
> > work
> > with only the Patrol Camping without adults?
> >
> > joedet
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
>   >  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>   >
>   > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
>   > Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >   >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >

--  Success is not the destination, it is the journey.

I can see where tour permit is needed.  Here in Texas, it doesn't take much to
get pretty far from your normal serving area.  When my son was in a relatively
new patrol, we took their patrol camping to a State park about an hour and a
half away.  It was a great place, but we did get a tour permit.  And we had more
than two deep leadership.  Regardless of where the boys camp, even if it's in
someone's backyard, there should be two-deep leadership on hand.   This is for
everyone's safety and protection, not just the boys.

Make it fun and rewarding, have a great time, but follow BSA policy if you are
going as a patrol.

Trish


----- Original Message ----
From: Don Wilson <don-wilson@...>
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:37:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping

I cannot see a case where a tour permit would be required. The idea
of Patrol Camping would be for the patrol to either travel by foot or
be dropped of by a parent -- the camp out should not be that far away
from the area that the troop serves, and be in a location that
assistance could be provided should any emergency occur.
Requirements for drivers would limit the scouts from driving as a
group, and the two-deep adult leadership would have to be addressed
in the event that transportation would be required.

Don Wilson

To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
From: "Robert Wilson" <fishnscout@gmail. com>
Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:36:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping
Send reply to: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com

> How does this work with Tour Permits and the requirements for that?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2008 5:20 PM, joedet <joedet@hotmail. com> wrote:
>
> > In going over the YPT video we came upon the Patrol Camping comment.
> >
> > The question I have is.
> >
> > Does anyone know of a Scoutmaster that has approved this and how did it
> > work
> > with only the Patrol Camping without adults?
> >
> > joedet
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> > scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
> >
> > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >

-- Success is not the destination, it is the journey.





      
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for your response Don. I'm curious about this because the tour permit
says ya have to have two leaders on campouts. The way I'd do patrol camping
is have two deep leadership and have the adults camp in their own patrol a
short distance away, but close enough to help with safety issues.

Robert


On Jan 18, 2008 5:37 PM, Don Wilson <don-wilson@...> wrote:

> I cannot see a case where a tour permit would be required.  The idea
> of Patrol Camping would be for the patrol to either travel by foot or
> be dropped of by a parent -- the camp out should not be that far away
> from the area that the troop serves, and be in a location that
> assistance could be provided should any emergency occur.
> Requirements for drivers would limit the scouts from driving as a
> group, and the two-deep adult leadership would have to be addressed
> in the event that transportation would be required.
>
> Don Wilson
>
> To:     scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
> From:   "Robert Wilson" <fishnscout@...>
> Date sent:      Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:36:26 -0500
> Subject:        Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping
> Send reply to:  scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
>
> > How does this work with Tour Permits and the requirements for that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > On Jan 17, 2008 5:20 PM, joedet <joedet@...> wrote:
> >
> > > In going over the YPT video we came upon the Patrol Camping comment.
> > >
> > > The question I have is.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a Scoutmaster that has approved this and how did
> it
> > > work
> > > with only the Patrol Camping without adults?
> > >
> > > joedet
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> >   >  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
> >   >
> >   > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> >   > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >   >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >   >
>
> --  Success is not the destination, it is the journey.
>
>
>
> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
>  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>
> Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, but you missed the entire point of Patrol
camping. The idea is for them to get AWAY from all the
adults and do their own thing. Let 'em go, they can
handle it!
Yours in Scouting and Service,
Doc Marshall
--- Lady T <eagleladyt@...> wrote:

> I can see where tour permit is needed.  Here in
> Texas, it doesn't take much to get pretty far from
> your normal serving area.  When my son was in a
> relatively new patrol, we took their patrol camping
> to a State park about an hour and a half away.  It
> was a great place, but we did get a tour permit.
> And we had more than two deep leadership.
> Regardless of where the boys camp, even if it's in
> someone's backyard, there should be two-deep
> leadership on hand.   This is for everyone's safety
> and protection, not just the boys.
>
> Make it fun and rewarding, have a great time, but
> follow BSA policy if you are going as a patrol.
>
> Trish
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Don Wilson <don-wilson@...>
> To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:37:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping
>
> I cannot see a case where a tour permit would be
> required. The idea
> of Patrol Camping would be for the patrol to either
> travel by foot or
> be dropped of by a parent -- the camp out should not
> be that far away
> from the area that the troop serves, and be in a
> location that
> assistance could be provided should any emergency
> occur.
> Requirements for drivers would limit the scouts from
> driving as a
> group, and the two-deep adult leadership would have
> to be addressed
> in the event that transportation would be required.
>
> Don Wilson
>
> To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
> From: "Robert Wilson" <fishnscout@gmail. com>
> Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:36:26 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping
> Send reply to: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > How does this work with Tour Permits and the
> requirements for that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > On Jan 17, 2008 5:20 PM, joedet <joedet@hotmail.
> com> wrote:
> >
> > > In going over the YPT video we came upon the
> Patrol Camping comment.
> > >
> > > The question I have is.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a Scoutmaster that has
> approved this and how did it
> > > work
> > > with only the Patrol Camping without adults?
> > >
> > > joedet
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For subscription and delevery options send a
> message to:
> > > scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
> > >
> > > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting
> TheNet.com/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> > >
>
> -- Success is not the destination, it is the
> journey.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

I guess I could say "Way back when....".  There was a time when
patrols were able to have a "patrol camp" without two deep
leadership.  We spend years training Scouts, a patrol of 15-16-year
old boys and rather than allow them to put that training to the test,
they must have two leaders to camp overnight?  If you were in that
patrol, would you feel that the leaders trusted them?  Our Scouts are
not feeble minded, if they want to get together and camp they will do
just that, but outside the parameters of Scouting.  Could or would
you forbid them to do that?

Present standards state emphatically that every campout must have two
deep leadership with one of the two being 21 years or older.
However, patrols may have a hike or service project without that two
deep leadership.  This is possible only with approval from the
Scoutmaster and when it does not interfere with troop activities.

As a Scoutmaster in the 90's (1989 - 1998), my leaders and I had a
separate campsite but close enough to take care of problems.  In
fact, the leaders formed a patrol, the Chow Hounds, and we did
everything that a patrol should do, from menu to duty roster,
assisting each in putting up tents and shelters, even our own wood
lot.  From the patrol name, one would guess that we ate well.  One of
our goals was to demonstrate that it required no more time or effort
to eat well than not.  Mystery meat or foil packs were not acceptable
in the leaders camp.  One memorable meal was Frogmore Stew and
Cherries Jubilee (we did have to forgo the flaming brandy).  I was
cook and served 8 leaders (Chow Hounds and guests) Fettichini
Alfredo, candied carrots, steamed broccoli, with garlic bread sticks
along with a Cherry-Pineapple Cobbler.  I have a Dutch oven recipe
for Orange Glazed Breakfast Buns that will make you the hero of your
district (or even council) if anyone is interested. There were times
when there were leftovers, but always a line of boys (we called them
"camp dogs") insured that we did not have to waste food.

After my first long-term camp another standard was established.  I
learned that some Scouts took more snacks than clothing summer camp,
resulting in boys not being hungry for meals in the dinning hall
because they had just eaten half-dozen candy bars and one or two soft
drinks and then bouncing off the walls until the wee hours. That plus
black animals with a white strip resulted to a "no personal snacks"
policy.  If it was not on the patrol menu, it would not be in the
campsite.  Scouts could eat leftovers from a previous meal, but could
not break into the stores for the next meal.  Anything purchased at
the Trading Post at summer camp had to be eaten before Taps.  The
rule included the leaders patrol. After a year or so, it became the
norm and little had to be said.

I digress.  Back to the original question, if the Scouts learn that
they are not trusted, then why should they participate?

Don Wilson


--  Success is not the destination, it is the journey.

In a message dated 1/18/2008 5:51:13 PM EST, Trish wrote:

there should be two-deep leadership on hand. This is for everyone's safety
and protection >

Back when I was a Scout, shortly after the disappearance of the dinosaurs, we
didn't camp overnight as a patrol, but we did go afield for a day with no
adults.  Used all kinds of woods tools, without and axe yard, to cut down
(green)
trees.  Ahhh!  The days before personal injury lawyers.  ;-)

Ralph V. Balfoort, UC
I used to be a beaver (NE III-135)
In the Beaver Patrol as a Scout
And still Ktemaque (Beaver) Chapter,
Kittan Lodge #364, OA



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your missing the point of patrol camping and the
reasons behind it if you make too much of it.It
doesent require 2 deep if a group of kids go camping
as long as the Scoutmaster approves it.The idea is
they can prove themselves if you can trust them.You
wouldnt send a bunch of trouble makers out camping on
there own as a SM would you??If a patrol has proven
themselves to be capable there is nothing wrong with
it.Why make it more complicated than it really is??I
have allowed it many times and never was disappointed
by the results.It really comes down to the SM's
judgement if its allowed and whether they can do it
under the scouting framework.Do you trust those that
want to go camping??Are they capable of handling it
and responsible enough??Those are the only questions
you need to ask yourself and your scouts.
Charles Seltenright
Crew 308 Advisor
Troop 337 ASM



--- Robert Wilson <fishnscout@...> wrote:

> Thanks for your response Don. I'm curious about this
> because the tour permit
> says ya have to have two leaders on campouts. The
> way I'd do patrol camping
> is have two deep leadership and have the adults camp
> in their own patrol a
> short distance away, but close enough to help with
> safety issues.
>
> Robert
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2008 5:37 PM, Don Wilson
> <don-wilson@...> wrote:
>
> > I cannot see a case where a tour permit would be
> required.  The idea
> > of Patrol Camping would be for the patrol to
> either travel by foot or
> > be dropped of by a parent -- the camp out should
> not be that far away
> > from the area that the troop serves, and be in a
> location that
> > assistance could be provided should any emergency
> occur.
> > Requirements for drivers would limit the scouts
> from driving as a
> > group, and the two-deep adult leadership would
> have to be addressed
> > in the event that transportation would be
> required.
> >
> > Don Wilson
> >
> > To:     scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
> > From:   "Robert Wilson" <fishnscout@...>
> > Date sent:      Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:36:26 -0500
> > Subject:        Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping
> > Send reply to:  scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > How does this work with Tour Permits and the
> requirements for that?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 17, 2008 5:20 PM, joedet
> <joedet@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In going over the YPT video we came upon the
> Patrol Camping comment.
> > > >
> > > > The question I have is.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know of a Scoutmaster that has
> approved this and how did
> > it
> > > > work
> > > > with only the Patrol Camping without adults?
> > > >
> > > > joedet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > For subscription and delevery options send a
> message to:
> > >   >  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
> > >   >
> > >   > Scouting The Net -
> http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> > >   > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >   >   [Non-text portions of this message
> have been removed]
> > >   >
> >
> > --  Success is not the destination, it is the
> journey.
> >
> >
> >
> > For subscription and delevery options send a
> message to:
> >  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>



      
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In a message dated 1/18/08 11:59:14 PM, deutche01@... writes:


>
> Sorry, but you missed the entire point of Patrol
> camping. The idea is for them to get AWAY from all the
> adults and do their own thing. Let 'em go, they can
> handle it!
> Yours in Scouting and Service,
> Doc Marshall
>
>
>

Sadly,   in today's Scouting,   the question is not whether kids can handle
it.   (They can.)

The problem is that if, God forbid,   something should happen, the legal
position of the boys,   the unit's adults and the BSA could be exceedingly
difficult.    What has changed since the earlier days of Scouting is societal
expectations,   standard of care and supervision expected by parents, etc. plus
the
exceedingly high level of financial burden caused by settlements, judgements,
etc.

Having said that,   patrol activities are permitted by the guide to safe
scouting.    What is never permitted is to have an activity with one and only
one
adult.

Best wishes,

Neil Lupton


**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in
shape.
      http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If only it were simply up to the leaders and the boys. Back in the dark
ages, this was an acceptable practice; not today. The leader campsite
nearby works, but under no circumstances can we permit a patrol of
Scouts to camp without 2-deep leadership. It has nothing to do with
trusting the Scouts; it is solely about liability of the leadership.
With a many nut cases as there are out there, and as many bad things as
can happen, there is no choice. Independent patrol camping died with
the dinosaurs.  Sorry.

Mike Homrighaus
AA, Venturing Crew 88
Cortland, NY
Baden-Powell Council

> ... there is no choice. Independent patrol camping
> died with the dinosaurs.  Sorry.

As to the above, I'll agree to disagree, pet Dino,
wave to Fred and Wilma, and amble on along the trail
8^)

Kevin in Norman, America


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
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Now I am not from Missouri, but this time you gotta show me.  Where
in available literature have you found anything that indicated that a
patrol may camp without two deep ADULT leadership?  A day hike or
special service project - yes -- but that is the extent of the
activities that a patrol may practice without required adult
leadership.  Please, tell me I am wrong.

Don Wilson

--  Success is not the destination, it is the journey.

Two-Deep Leadership

Safe Scouting requires adequate adult leadership. For camps, trips, and outdoor
activities, this means having at least two adult leaders, one of whom is at
least 21 years old. It is unacceptable to have a camp, trip, or outdoor activity
with only one adult present. If only one adult is able to attend, the trip must
be cancelled. Ideally, at least three adults will accompany the troop on
Scouting on trips. ***(Note that for properly trained Boy Scout patrols, it is
acceptable to have outdoor patrol activities with no adults present. Such
activities do require Scoutmaster approval.)***



http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=promoi&c=http://www.scouting.org/healtha\
ndsafety/index.html

Emphasis added.

YiS,
Jamie Niss Dunn
Pack Trainer, Pack 512
Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
Cub Scout Training Coordinator
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner





________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Patrol activities—A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may hike or camp
with other patrols or squads in the unit or, with the permission of their
Scoutmaster and parents or guardians, may hike or camp on their own."
http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-954/index.html


Jamie Niss Dunn
Pack Trainer, Pack 512
Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
Cub Scout Training Coordinator
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner






________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jan 19, 2008 1:06 AM, Don Wilson <don-wilson@...> wrote:

> I guess I could say "Way back when....".  There was a time when
> patrols were able to have a "patrol camp" without two deep
> leadership.  We spend years training Scouts, a patrol of 15-16-year
> old boys and rather than allow them to put that training to the test,
> they must have two leaders to camp overnight?  If you were in that
> patrol, would you feel that the leaders trusted them?  Our Scouts are
> not feeble minded, if they want to get together and camp they will do
> just that, but outside the parameters of Scouting.  Could or would
> you forbid them to do that?


I would hope that older Scouts have the skills to take care of themselves
and I could see where they could feel that the adults don't trust them. I
would also hope that they would understand policies and rules.

What do we teach new Scoutmasters about how patrol camping works? If the
policy is that two deep leadership is required, that is what we should
teach. If folks deviate from that, it shouldn't be based on what they are
taught.

Robert


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am glad to be proven wrong -- even when the Scoutmaster Handbook
states that "Every campout and short term camp must have a qualified
adult leader, at least 21 years of age, in charge and at least one
more responsible adult participating.....Scouts may not depart for a
camping trip unless a two-adult minimum of leadership is assured."
And further:  "Two registered adult leaders or one registered adult
leader and a parent or guardian of a participant, one of whom must be
at least 21 years of age, are required on all trips and outings.
.....This requirement also applies to the activities of provisional
troops and of the Order of the Arrow."

Thanks, Jamie.

Don Wilson

To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
From: Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...>
Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:25:28 -0500
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping/Charles
Send reply to: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com

> "Patrol activities-A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may hike or camp
with other patrols or squads in the unit or, with the permission of their
Scoutmaster and parents or guardians, may hike or camp on their own."
> http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-954/index.html
>
>
> Jamie Niss Dunn
> Pack Trainer, Pack 512
> Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
> Cub Scout Training Coordinator
> Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner

Thanks, Jamie.My guys will cntinue to do Patrol
activities (including campouts) with my permission and
without any adults present. As to the weirdos, I'd
hate to tackle these guys if they got riled up. They
are as well-trained in First Aid/CPR as I am, have
some means of communication with the outside world,
parents have signed waivers AND, they'd probably shoot
me if I didn't let 'em go camping. Prepare for the
worst (train the boys) then put some trust in them.
They are, aftter all, young men.
Yours in Scouting and Service,
Doc MArshall
--- Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...> wrote:

> "Patrol activities—A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity
> Scout squad may hike or camp with other patrols or
> squads in the unit or, with the permission of their
> Scoutmaster and parents or guardians, may hike or
> camp on their own."
>
http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-954/index.html
>
>
> Jamie Niss Dunn
> Pack Trainer, Pack 512
> Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
> Cub Scout Training Coordinator
> Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL
> Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

Ditto thanks Jamie!!
  You will find you gain stronger leaders and a better
troop if you do allow patrols to camp.As young scouts
they elect by popularity as they gain age and
experience they elect by leadership and
experience.With patrol camping they learn this on
there own and apply it in the troop without a single
leader (adult)having anything to do with it.
  Trust is huge in patrol camping but if anyone has any
doubts, whether leader or parent, it shouldnt be
allowed.BP designed scouting to raise young boys into
young men.It still works today as it did back then.

Charles Seltenright
Crew 308 Advisor
Troop 337 ASM


      
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You might want to consider that the wilderness area of a council camp could
be safer than a state park, considering that we pretty much know who enters
a Boy Scout camp, but a public park is a different story. Also, at least in
our council we don't need a tour permit for that, but I agree about getting
a waiver signed by the parents showing that they're aware of what's being
done and the potential risks - this is 2008 after all.
Corinna

I've the #33009B version of the Scoutmaster Handbook and it states at the
bottom of page 22, "However, patrols may also set out on day hikes, service
projects, and overnighters independent of the troop and free of adult
leadership as long as they follow two rules:
- The Scoutmaster approves the patrol activity.
- The patrol activity does not interfere with any troop function"

It goes on to explain about things being well planned and within their
ability and stuff like that. The current handbook is version #33009C. I
wonder if it has the same statements. I understand the value of giving folks
the freedom to do things on their own, after all, we are moving them from
dependence to independence. What I'm trying to get straight is what the BSA
policy is now on the subject so that when I'm asked, I can tell them what
the official policy is. It looks like the documentation contradicts itself.

YIS,
Robert



On Jan 19, 2008 6:26 PM, Don Wilson <don-wilson@...> wrote:

> I am glad to be proven wrong -- even when the Scoutmaster Handbook
> states that "Every campout and short term camp must have a qualified
> adult leader, at least 21 years of age, in charge and at least one
> more responsible adult participating.....Scouts may not depart for a
> camping trip unless a two-adult minimum of leadership is assured."
> And further:  "Two registered adult leaders or one registered adult
> leader and a parent or guardian of a participant, one of whom must be
> at least 21 years of age, are required on all trips and outings.
> .....This requirement also applies to the activities of provisional
> troops and of the Order of the Arrow."
>
> Thanks, Jamie.
>
> Don Wilson
>
> To:     scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
> From:   Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...>
> Date sent:      Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:25:28 -0500
> Subject:        Re: [Scouter_T] Patrol Camping/Charles
> Send reply to:  scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
>
> > "Patrol activities-A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may hike or
> camp with other patrols or squads in the unit or, with the permission of
> their Scoutmaster and parents or guardians, may hike or camp on their own."
> > http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-954/index.html
> >
> >
> > Jamie Niss Dunn
> > Pack Trainer, Pack 512
> > Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
> > Cub Scout Training Coordinator
> > Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
>
>
>
>
> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
>  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>
> Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The version I have is #33009A, where on page 3 states that:  "These
are the minimum requirements for becoming a Scoutmaster or assistant
Scoutmaster:  Be at least 21 years of age.  I will replace my copy on
Monday.

Yes, I am finding more and more contradictions which might depend on
which version one is reading.  The largest problem is Guide to Safe
Scouting.  It certainly would be nice if the right hand knew what the
left hand is doing.

Don Wilson

--  Success is not the destination, it is the journey.

And that, folks, is a classic introduction to BSA
National!
Yours in Scouting and Service,
Doc Marshall
--- Don Wilson <don-wilson@...> wrote:

> The version I have is #33009A, where on page 3
> states that:  "These
> are the minimum requirements for becoming a
> Scoutmaster or assistant
> Scoutmaster:  Be at least 21 years of age.  I will
> replace my copy on
> Monday.
>
> Yes, I am finding more and more contradictions which
> might depend on
> which version one is reading.  The largest problem
> is Guide to Safe
> Scouting.  It certainly would be nice if the right
> hand knew what the
> left hand is doing.
>
> Don Wilson
>
> --  Success is not the destination, it is the
> journey.
>
>

Looking for Scouters who are also NRA instructors to join new group
boyscout_NRA_instructors.  If interested in shooting sports, training,
marksmanship and instruction, please come on by and join.  Share info
about NRA training you are running or interested in taking.

Well whats the word on this, December came and went.

Herb Dulzo
Chicago Area Council


--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Crothers" <dowrightbw@...>
wrote:
>
> Just talked to the Cub Scout division at National.
>
> I was informed that the new syllabus (3 hours long) is in the final
> stages of review and they hope to provide a paper copy to each
council
> by sometime in Dec.
>
> Also there are three different formats, and there are no videos used
> with the  new syllabus.
>
> I was also informed the during the Cubmaster split they will
> experience a model pack meeting.
>
>
> Yours In Scouting
>
> Mike Crothers
>
> Assistant District Commissioner
> Spanish Trails District
> Catalina Council
>
> I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11
> and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13
> and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06
>

There's something available on Scoutstuff w/no picture, item # 34875A. Is this
it, maybe? or just an (old) revision of the 2001 edition? I haven't seen
anything either.


Jamie Niss Dunn
Pack Trainer, Pack 512
Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
Cub Scout Training Coordinator
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner


-----Original Message-----
From: Herbert Dulzo <hadulzo@...>
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:09 am
Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: New Cub Scout Leader Basic






Well whats the word on this, December came and went.

Herb Dulzo
Chicago Area Council

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Crothers" <dowrightbw@...>
wrote:
>
> Just talked to the Cub Scout division at National.
>
> I was informed that the new syllabus (3 hours long) is in the final
> stages of review and they hope to provide a paper copy to each
council
> by sometime in Dec.
>
> Also there are three different formats, and there are no videos used
> with the new syllabus.
>
> I was also informed the during the Cubmaster split they will
> experience a model pack meeting.
>
>
> Yours In Scouting
>
> Mike Crothers
>
> Assistant District Commissioner
> Spanish Trails District
> Catalina Council
>
> I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11
> and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13
> and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06
>





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just emailed my contact at national.  Hopefully he'll have an answer for us
soon.

   Sandy OWL

Herbert Dulzo <hadulzo@...> wrote:
           Well whats the word on this, December came and went.

Herb Dulzo
Chicago Area Council

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Crothers" <dowrightbw@...>
wrote:
>
> Just talked to the Cub Scout division at National.
>
> I was informed that the new syllabus (3 hours long) is in the final
> stages of review and they hope to provide a paper copy to each
council
> by sometime in Dec.
>
> Also there are three different formats, and there are no videos used
> with the new syllabus.
>
> I was also informed the during the Cubmaster split they will
> experience a model pack meeting.
>
>
> Yours In Scouting
>
> Mike Crothers
>
> Assistant District Commissioner
> Spanish Trails District
> Catalina Council
>
> I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11
> and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13
> and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06
>






---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here <http://mountain.scoutdistrict.org/downloads/BORTrnRev2f.ppt>is the
latest version of the Board of Review Powerpoint presentation we've been
working on. We hope to get more folks involved in BORs and use this as a way
to get more volunteers working with the Troop. It was used in a training
class a couple nights ago and it took about 25 minutes. Let me know if you
see any errors. If things look OK, I guess it can be placed in the files
section.

Thanks,
Robert


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

here is the response I got from national about the new CS Ldr Spec
course.

Sandy owl

The instructor-led Leader Specific Training was to indeed be out by
the fall of 2007. Copy-editing and production of the syllabus and
slides, as well as other projects in our Custom Communications
Division has pushed our project back several times. I'm now told that
the finished project will be out the door by the end of February. I am
reviewing the final draft of the syllabus and slides this week. The
Cub Scout Division will be sending a copy of the new training syllabus
and slides to every district in the country through the local councils
when it is launched.

Thanks, Sandy, for going to the source for us!

Teresa
Cub Training Coordinator, Vulcan District
SR-889 SM:  May 16-18, June 6-8, 2009
GREATer Alabama Council

On Jan 24, 2008 11:57 AM, Sandra Martens <sandyowl1@...> wrote:

> here is the response I got from national about the new CS Ldr Spec
> course.
>
> Sandy owl
>
> The instructor-led Leader Specific Training was to indeed be out by
> the fall of 2007. Copy-editing and production of the syllabus and
> slides, as well as other projects in our Custom Communications
> Division has pushed our project back several times. I'm now told that
> the finished project will be out the door by the end of February. I am
> reviewing the final draft of the syllabus and slides this week. The
> Cub Scout Division will be sending a copy of the new training syllabus
> and slides to every district in the country through the local councils
> when it is launched.
>
>
>
>
>
> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
>  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>
> Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert this ppt appears very accurate as presented.

  My only comment would be to elaborate a more on who may serve on the Eagle
BOR slide. Some troops may take it at face value that all the members of the
Eagle BOR need to come from the local troop where as in fact none of them
actually are required to. They can be members of the local community, other
districts, troops, clergy, etc. as long as they have a presence of the
magnitude and /or background to support the mission of the Eagle Board. I
state this only because this has been a recent problem here when adult
personalities have overshadowed the accomplishments of the boy as dictated
by the Committee Chairman

Ref. BSA Advancement Committee Guide

Thank you for sharing the PPT. presentation

Allan
   _____

From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Wilson
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:24 PM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Scouter_T] Board of Review Training PPT Presentation

Here <http://mountain.scoutdistrict.org/downloads/BORTrnRev2f.ppt>is the
latest version of the Board of Review Powerpoint presentation we've been
working on. We hope to get more folks involved in BORs and use this as a way
to get more volunteers working with the Troop. It was used in a training
class a couple nights ago and it took about 25 minutes. Let me know if you
see any errors. If things look OK, I guess it can be placed in the files
section.

Thanks,
Robert

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In our council the Eagle BOR is the responsibility of the District
Advancement Committee.  No one associated the the applicant's unit is
asked to be on that BOR.  The makeup of the board may include non-
registered adults that are familiar with he applicant.  Other than
that, the Orientation program is outstanding.

Don Wilson
--  Success is not the destination, it is the journey.