Register now for one of two important training conferences being held
on October 26 – 28, 2007 in Rochester, Indiana at the Geneva
Conference Center:

** KODIAK and KODIAK X Course Director's Conference
** Powder Horn Course Director's Conference

Your Council is encouraged to take advantage of this common location
and training weekend so that transportation costs can be shared.
Complete information including registration forms can be found at the
Central Region Venturing website: http://www.crventuring.org/

Whether the Venturing specialty you choose is Kodiak/Kodiak X or
Powder Horn, this is the opportunity for you to learn the intricacies
of conducting a successful course. We've recruited a great staff of
experienced Kodiak and Powder Horn course directors and staff members
to cover a wide variety of course planning topics. If your council
is interested in learning more about what either Kodiak/Kodiak X or
Powder Horn are and what it takes to plan a successful course, you
need to join us!

Councils planning for Powder Horn in 2008, definitely need to have
the intended Course Director at this CDC if they have not attended
CDC in 2006 or 2007 since PH CDC attendance by the Course Director
within the previous two years is a course approval prerequisite. Our
experience has shown however, that you will get the most out of the
2007 Powder Horn CDC if you are planning a course in 2009 or beyond.
For Powder Horn, besides the intended Course Director, attendance by
the Assistant Course Directors and Staff Advisor, or other council
supporters is also encouraged.

While CDC participation is not a prerequisite to conduct Kodiak/X,
experience has shown your Kodiak course will be much better by
learning from an experienced Kodiak staff and interacting with CDC
participants.

Whether Kodiak/X or Powder Horn; your Council's opportunity for
success is increased when more staff members understand the
underlying concepts in preparing for these programs.

If you believe in the "X" factor of the Venturing program, we need
you to get this information to people that should attend the
conferences (key Venturing volunteers and staff advisors from your
Council, as well as Venturing folks you know from other Councils).
Our hope is to grow exciting Venturing in Central Region, get more
Kodiak/X/Powder Horn courses approved, covering more councils
throughout the region that end up with a successful result. Your help
in promoting these CDC's is one way you can help us do that.

We would really like to know if you or others you recommend have any
interest in attending the CDCs. If you could please let Connie or
Signe know if you are interested or have any leads as soon as
possible we would appreciate it. Even better, it would be great if we
could start seeing some registration forms mailed to the region
office within the next week!

Please do not hesitate to contact us about any aspect of your
Council's Kodiak/X & Powder Horn planning.

Mark your calendars: Friday, October 26 – Sunday, October 28, 2007;
two great training opportunities that will bolster your council's
Venturing program will be taking place at the same time and location.

This is going to be an exciting weekend! Besides the nitty gritty for
the programs being presented, we will be planning a Venturing
Roundtable for all participants together to receive an added benefit
from the synergism of the weekend. These CDC's are conducted once a
year in the Central Region. Put together a carload, take a bite out
of gas prices, and add a bonus of team camaraderie by capitalizing on
this Regional training opportunity.

If you are not one who can attend any of these two training
conferences, spread the word and encourage representation from your
Council!

Central Region Kodiak Coordinator Connie Elliott
(734) 854-3822
CampConnie@...

Central Region Powder Horn Coordinator Signe Rogers
(316) 772-3649
Hikin_Grammy@...

Staff Advisor, Joe Vollmer
(630) 983-4464
jvollmer@...

Okay all you scoutmasters out there...

What do you like to discuss with Eagle candidates during their
scoutmaster conference for the rank of Eagle Scout?
Do you have any topics other then the ones covered at
http://melrosetroop68.org/2007/08/eagle-scoutmaster-conference.html

I recently moved to a new area of the country and anxious to get
involved I volunteered to a couple of districts to help
with their fall training, particularly their Venturing training. One
district expressed interest and today I pressed the Training chairman
a little to let me know if he wants me to train and if so, what he
wants me to train. He responded to me that he would like me to be
the instructor for the Venturing training, which I am happy and
excited to do. We've never met, but I gave him my credentials and
apparantly he thinks I'm good enough to at least get by.

He then sent me the schedule for the saturday that the training will
be held. They are holding NLE for all trainees first and then the
Leader Specific training. Makes for a long day, but whatever.

When I got to the Venturing schedule, I found some surprises. First,
they take a break in the Venturing training for "Round Robin Breakout
Sessions" to have classes on knot tying, Eagle project, LDS Duty to
God, and Creative COH's. Apparantly participants will choose two
classes that are each 15 minutes long. Interesting! Not exactly
part of the syllabus for Venturing.

Then I got looking at the schedule closer, they have two columns on
the shedule for the length of the individual sessions. They have
their scheduled length, and then the "Prescribed Length," meaning
what the syllabus says. Every session is cut short! This is how
they break it down:

Session 1 - Here's Venturing Their schedule - 20 min, syllabus -
45 min

Session 2 - Understanding and Protecting Youth Their schedule -
35 min, syllabus - 90 min (any guesses what will be cut out here?)

Session 3 - Leadership and organization Their schedule - 30 min,
syllabus - 50 min

Then they have their round robin session

Session 4 - Awards and Recognitions Their schedule - 20 min,
syllabus - 60 min

Session 5 - Resources and Program Planning Their schedule - 20
min, syllabus - 60 min.

So they are taking a 305 minute course and cutting it down to a 125
minute course. Anyone see a problem here?


So, if you were in my shoes would you 1) follow their schedule? 2)
ignore their schedule and follow the syllabus anyway? 3) tell the
district that either I will follow the syllabus or I won't do it? or
4) Other (Feel free to fill in the blank here)

I'm sure this is not an uncommon problem and no doubt others of you
have encountered it. So what approach would you take? To me, option
1 is not even an option.

YIV,
Ryan

<<So, if you were in my shoes would you 1) follow their schedule? 2)
ignore their schedule and follow the syllabus anyway? 3) tell the
district that either I will follow the syllabus or I won't do it? or
4) Other (Feel free to fill in the blank here)>>


Hi Ryan,

I would express my concern for the learners that they were being shortchanged by
the shortened courses. I would communicate my willingness to teach to the
syllabus, or respectfully decline their invitation. If the learners walk in
expecting the shortened schedule and you give them the full blown package they
may feel resentful. If you ignore the training chair's schedule s/he may not be
happy with you. However, I would feel an obligation that the learners get
everything out of the course to which they are entitled.


?YiS,
Jamie Niss Dunn
Pack Trainer
Pack 512, Blaine/Coon Rapids Minnesota
Cub Scout Training Coordinator
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
3 Rivers District





________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

4) I'd ignore the breakout - those items have zip to do with Venturing -
that gets you back some time.  The youth protection segment has videos
to watch which is why it is scheduled so long.  The entire schedule is a
bit long (unless you have 80 attendees, you won't use up that much time)
- we've accomplished it easily in 4 hours (a bit longer than they're
allowing, but removing the round-robin stuff a bit closer)...  Give the
attendees what they need, not what the training chair (who apparently
doesn't know much about Venturing) has set up - let them know what you
are doing and why (explaining the importance of the change) - that way
everyone learns something.  Remember that the schedules are determined
by the event coordinator, which may not be the Training Chair, and may
not be someone familiar with Venturing.  What is the audience for this -
traditional or LDS?  (the programs a very similar but there are
differences)



Jim von Schmacht

Loma Prieta District Training Chair

WE3-31-00 Owl

7x WB Staffer (21C)



________________________________

From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ryan
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:00 PM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Scouter_T] Venturing Leader Specific Training



I recently moved to a new area of the country and anxious to get
involved I volunteered to a couple of districts to help
with their fall training, particularly their Venturing training. One
district expressed interest and today I pressed the Training chairman
a little to let me know if he wants me to train and if so, what he
wants me to train. He responded to me that he would like me to be
the instructor for the Venturing training, which I am happy and
excited to do. We've never met, but I gave him my credentials and
apparantly he thinks I'm good enough to at least get by.

He then sent me the schedule for the saturday that the training will
be held. They are holding NLE for all trainees first and then the
Leader Specific training. Makes for a long day, but whatever.

When I got to the Venturing schedule, I found some surprises. First,
they take a break in the Venturing training for "Round Robin Breakout
Sessions" to have classes on knot tying, Eagle project, LDS Duty to
God, and Creative COH's. Apparantly participants will choose two
classes that are each 15 minutes long. Interesting! Not exactly
part of the syllabus for Venturing.

Then I got looking at the schedule closer, they have two columns on
the shedule for the length of the individual sessions. They have
their scheduled length, and then the "Prescribed Length," meaning
what the syllabus says. Every session is cut short! This is how
they break it down:

Session 1 - Here's Venturing Their schedule - 20 min, syllabus -
45 min

Session 2 - Understanding and Protecting Youth Their schedule -
35 min, syllabus - 90 min (any guesses what will be cut out here?)

Session 3 - Leadership and organization Their schedule - 30 min,
syllabus - 50 min

Then they have their round robin session

Session 4 - Awards and Recognitions Their schedule - 20 min,
syllabus - 60 min

Session 5 - Resources and Program Planning Their schedule - 20
min, syllabus - 60 min.

So they are taking a 305 minute course and cutting it down to a 125
minute course. Anyone see a problem here?

So, if you were in my shoes would you 1) follow their schedule? 2)
ignore their schedule and follow the syllabus anyway? 3) tell the
district that either I will follow the syllabus or I won't do it? or
4) Other (Feel free to fill in the blank here)

I'm sure this is not an uncommon problem and no doubt others of you
have encountered it. So what approach would you take? To me, option
1 is not even an option.

YIV,
Ryan


________________________________________________________________
ArcSight 2007 User Conference ~ Protecting Your Business
> Register now for the best conference rate
www.arcsight.com/userconference/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ryan -



Always knew you'd jump feet first into the francas.



It seems far too many training chairs (district and council) opt for the
easy way out - listening to the squeaking wheel of uninitiated learners who
complain training takes too long, is a waste of their time, and takes them
away from their families.



This lack of trained, informed leadership has a direct impact on Scouting's
numbers - without adequately trained leaders, we have an inadequate program
for our young people.  More simply stated:  Every youth deserves a FULLY
trained leader.



Your choices are adequately identified and you must make a choice:  (A)
Follow the abbreviated schedule and find ways to short-shrift the learners;
or (B) Follow the syllabus and alienate your training chair and all the
learners who thought they'd be done in two hours; or (C) Follow your
conscience and walk away knowing you'd alienate everyone AND break your
personal mantra of always "doing your best"; or (D) Follow an abbreviated
course and level with the learners.



Let me explain "D" - Try to follow the shortened timeline abbreviating the
delivery ONLY where prudent without undermining the overall vision.
Calculate the material missing when "time is up" and provide a handout -
all-the-while broadcasting in the strongest language possible to the
participants the following:



      "I'm sorry.  I was given only 20 minutes to present 90 minutes of
material - important material that I know you'll want to learn in working
with and for helping your young people.

      "Therefore, your homework assignment - just like what your children are
expected to do after school - is to read the following sections of the (name
of the leader's manual), specifically the pages xx to XX.  Specific points
are noted in this handout.

      "If you have any questions, or should you want me to provide some
personal coaching in your unit, please give me a call at (give phone number)
or email me.

      "Again I'm sorry to cut off the discussion prematurely and leave out
the best parts of this presentation.  I'm just following directions, and we
need to go on.  Let's now address..(next topic)."



Try this one-minute ka-boom after every 20-minute presentation of your
abbreviated schedule.  By the third time, the participants will be
chuckling;  by the fourth, laughing;  by the fifth, getting upset at being
short-changed;  and by the sixth, turning over a leaf of new understanding.
The training chair will be turning a new shade of red with embarrassment.
Your steadfast reputation will spike even higher than it soared here in
Grand Canyon Council.



Best of luck up there,

Y I V A S S

Ken



"I used to be a Buffalo, and a good ole Antelope, too!"

.and staffer, CD, and veteran Scouter (50-plus years)



   _____

From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ryan
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:00 PM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Scouter_T] Venturing Leader Specific Training



I recently moved to a new area of the country and anxious to get
involved I volunteered to a couple of districts to help
with their fall training, particularly their Venturing training. One
district expressed interest and today I pressed the Training chairman
a little to let me know if he wants me to train and if so, what he
wants me to train. He responded to me that he would like me to be
the instructor for the Venturing training, which I am happy and
excited to do. We've never met, but I gave him my credentials and
apparantly he thinks I'm good enough to at least get by.

He then sent me the schedule for the saturday that the training will
be held. They are holding NLE for all trainees first and then the
Leader Specific training. Makes for a long day, but whatever.

When I got to the Venturing schedule, I found some surprises. First,
they take a break in the Venturing training for "Round Robin Breakout
Sessions" to have classes on knot tying, Eagle project, LDS Duty to
God, and Creative COH's. Apparantly participants will choose two
classes that are each 15 minutes long. Interesting! Not exactly
part of the syllabus for Venturing.

Then I got looking at the schedule closer, they have two columns on
the shedule for the length of the individual sessions. They have
their scheduled length, and then the "Prescribed Length," meaning
what the syllabus says. Every session is cut short! This is how
they break it down:

Session 1 - Here's Venturing Their schedule - 20 min, syllabus -
45 min

Session 2 - Understanding and Protecting Youth Their schedule -
35 min, syllabus - 90 min (any guesses what will be cut out here?)

Session 3 - Leadership and organization Their schedule - 30 min,
syllabus - 50 min

Then they have their round robin session

Session 4 - Awards and Recognitions Their schedule - 20 min,
syllabus - 60 min

Session 5 - Resources and Program Planning Their schedule - 20
min, syllabus - 60 min.

So they are taking a 305 minute course and cutting it down to a 125
minute course. Anyone see a problem here?

So, if you were in my shoes would you 1) follow their schedule? 2)
ignore their schedule and follow the syllabus anyway? 3) tell the
district that either I will follow the syllabus or I won't do it? or
4) Other (Feel free to fill in the blank here)

I'm sure this is not an uncommon problem and no doubt others of you
have encountered it. So what approach would you take? To me, option
1 is not even an option.

YIV,
Ryan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/8/07 10:11:52 AM, stevejb68@... writes:


>
> Okay all you scoutmasters out there...
>
> What do you like to discuss with Eagle candidates during their
> scoutmaster conference for the rank of Eagle Scout?
> Do you have any topics other then the ones covered at
> http://melrosetroophttp://melrohttp://mehttp://melrohttp://melrhttp
>
> Hello Steve,

Check the Unit of Supplemental Training on Scoutmaster Conference.

On the National Web site   www.scouting.org

Then Boy Scouting >> Adult Leaders >> Training >> Supplemental Training >>
Scoutmaster Conference

Best wishes,

Neil Lupton


**************************************
  Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Any Training Chair that decides to cut training short needs to step
down, period.
Training is so the leader can give the best program he or she can to
the boys, and that is the reason we do this. WE ALL DO THIS FOR THE
BOYS.
As a new Training Chair who has been through just two training
sessions himself I can tell you I would not be where I am today with
out my training and my den and Pack would not be where they are
without my training.
A couple of weeks ago we were at cub day camp. Me, a few other
leaders, and 30 of our boys. I had the boys line up with
thier "buddy" before we would move to the next event, go to lunch, go
to the trading post, and go home.I was the front of the line and
another leader was the back of the line and the other leaders walked
alongside the boys. Every boy understood they could not go past me or
fall behind the other leader. Everywhere we went in camp we sang a
song as we marched, yes everyone sang leaders included. As we walked
through camp singing our song, other leaders would stop me and
ask "how do you do that?" meaning how do we keep the boys in
formation walking directly behind me, never running ahead or to the
side. When I stopped they stopped. My response to them was always the
same "Training" We as leaders set the expectations the boys are
expected to follow. Leaders lead, boys follow. I then would tell them
if they wanted to do the same next year with thier boys all they had
to do is attend our September Round Table and I would explain it to
them. (Of course this is the day I will tell them about training and
give them dates to attend.) I would not have known to do this if I
did not attend training.
The other part of training is to foster fellowship and friendship.
Sometimes we do not have the answer to the problem at hand, but by
attending training we have an idea where to find the answer and we
build relationships with people who we know will help us in that
situation. You also realize that you are NOT (key word here) in this
alone. There are hundreds of thousands of people just like you who
have volunteered for one of the best jobs in the world.
You get to teach the future of our country the principles of
scouting. The principles that will lay one of the best foundations
for thier lives they could ever hope to get.
So please DO NOT sell these leaders short if you can't get
satisfaction from the District Training Chair go over his head to the
District Chair, still no satisfaction go to the Council Trainer,
still no satisfaction go to the Coucil Executive. Still no
satisfaction. Ignore them all.
Training is for the direct benefit of the boys the leaders will come
in contact with. It has another direct benefit to the leaders who get
trained by fostering fellowship with other scouters.

I wish you well Scouter
Joe Parajecki
Fox River District, SEWISBSA
Training Chair
--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan" <rd_lancaster@...> wrote:
>
> I recently moved to a new area of the country and anxious to get
> involved I volunteered to a couple of districts to help
> with their fall training, particularly their Venturing training. One
> district expressed interest and today I pressed the Training
chairman
> a little to let me know if he wants me to train and if so, what he
> wants me to train. He responded to me that he would like me to be
> the instructor for the Venturing training, which I am happy and
> excited to do. We've never met, but I gave him my credentials and
> apparantly he thinks I'm good enough to at least get by.
>
> He then sent me the schedule for the saturday that the training will
> be held. They are holding NLE for all trainees first and then the
> Leader Specific training. Makes for a long day, but whatever.
>
> When I got to the Venturing schedule, I found some surprises. First,
> they take a break in the Venturing training for "Round Robin
Breakout
> Sessions" to have classes on knot tying, Eagle project, LDS Duty to
> God, and Creative COH's. Apparantly participants will choose two
> classes that are each 15 minutes long. Interesting! Not exactly
> part of the syllabus for Venturing.
>
> Then I got looking at the schedule closer, they have two columns on
> the shedule for the length of the individual sessions. They have
> their scheduled length, and then the "Prescribed Length," meaning
> what the syllabus says. Every session is cut short! This is how
> they break it down:
>
> Session 1 - Here's Venturing Their schedule - 20 min, syllabus -
> 45 min
>
> Session 2 - Understanding and Protecting Youth Their schedule -
> 35 min, syllabus - 90 min (any guesses what will be cut out here?)
>
> Session 3 - Leadership and organization Their schedule - 30 min,
> syllabus - 50 min
>
> Then they have their round robin session
>
> Session 4 - Awards and Recognitions Their schedule - 20 min,
> syllabus - 60 min
>
> Session 5 - Resources and Program Planning Their schedule - 20
> min, syllabus - 60 min.
>
> So they are taking a 305 minute course and cutting it down to a 125
> minute course. Anyone see a problem here?
>
>
> So, if you were in my shoes would you 1) follow their schedule? 2)
> ignore their schedule and follow the syllabus anyway? 3) tell the
> district that either I will follow the syllabus or I won't do it? or
> 4) Other (Feel free to fill in the blank here)
>
> I'm sure this is not an uncommon problem and no doubt others of you
> have encountered it. So what approach would you take? To me, option
> 1 is not even an option.
>
> YIV,
> Ryan
>

I believe I need to disagree with the "It's not my fault" mantra after every
abbreviated session. It makes you sound whiny and like you are blaming everyone
else for your percieved shortcomings..............yuck........
   No one really needs to know about the internal struggles and conflicts within
a staff. You need to be professional, rearrange the breakouts and take out the
ones that are not supposed to be there, and discuss the concerns you have with
someone higher than the training chair if he is less than responsive..

Ken Leja <ken@...> wrote:
   Ryan -



Always knew you'd jump feet first into the francas.



Let me explain "D" - Try to follow the shortened timeline abbreviating the
delivery ONLY where prudent without undermining the overall vision.
Calculate the material missing when "time is up" and provide a handout -
all-the-while broadcasting in the strongest language possible to the
participants the following:



"I'm sorry. I was given only 20 minutes to present 90 minutes of
material - important material that I know you'll want to learn in working
with and for helping your young people.

"Again I'm sorry to cut off the discussion prematurely and leave out
the best parts of this presentation. I'm just following directions, and we
need to go on. Let's now address..(next topic)."

Try this one-minute ka-boom after every 20-minute presentation of your
abbreviated schedule. By the third time, the participants will be
chuckling; by the fourth, laughing; by the fifth, getting upset at being
short-changed; and by the sixth, turning over a leaf of new understanding.
The training chair will be turning a new shade of red with embarrassment.
Your steadfast reputation will spike even higher than it soared here in
Grand Canyon Council.





connie

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> I believe I need to disagree with the "It's not my fault" mantra
after every abbreviated session. It makes you sound whiny and like
you are blaming everyone else for your percieved
shortcomings..............yuck........

Knowing Ken like I do, I think he could get away with it and no one
would think anything of it.


>   No one really needs to know about the internal struggles and
conflicts within a staff. You need to be professional, rearrange the
breakouts and take out the ones that are not supposed to be there,
and discuss the concerns you have with someone higher than the
training chair if he is less than responsive..

I agree, but at the same time, I'm the new guy on the block and I
need to establish some credibility before I can start complaining.

Ryan

Ken,

It's a pleasant surprise to get a response from a familiar name.  And
your response is outstanding.  Certainly my objective is not only to
have a good course, but also do it in a way that I'm invited back
again.  No sense in winning the battle if I lose the war.

I think that approaching the course as you suggested will allow me to
still provide an effective course without burning my bridges at the
same time.

YIV,
Ryan

P.S.  Thank you for the kind words and compliment.



--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Leja" <ken@...> wrote:
>
> Ryan -
>
>
>
> Always knew you'd jump feet first into the francas.
>
>
>
> It seems far too many training chairs (district and council) opt
for the
> easy way out - listening to the squeaking wheel of uninitiated
learners who
> complain training takes too long, is a waste of their time, and
takes them
> away from their families.
>
>
>
> This lack of trained, informed leadership has a direct impact on
Scouting's
> numbers - without adequately trained leaders, we have an inadequate
program
> for our young people.  More simply stated:  Every youth deserves a
FULLY
> trained leader.
>
>
>
> Your choices are adequately identified and you must make a choice:
(A)
> Follow the abbreviated schedule and find ways to short-shrift the
learners;
> or (B) Follow the syllabus and alienate your training chair and all
the
> learners who thought they'd be done in two hours; or (C) Follow your
> conscience and walk away knowing you'd alienate everyone AND break
your
> personal mantra of always "doing your best"; or (D) Follow an
abbreviated
> course and level with the learners.
>
>
>
> Let me explain "D" - Try to follow the shortened timeline
abbreviating the
> delivery ONLY where prudent without undermining the overall vision.
> Calculate the material missing when "time is up" and provide a
handout -
> all-the-while broadcasting in the strongest language possible to the
> participants the following:
>
>
>
>      "I'm sorry.  I was given only 20 minutes to present 90 minutes
of
> material - important material that I know you'll want to learn in
working
> with and for helping your young people.
>
>      "Therefore, your homework assignment - just like what your
children are
> expected to do after school - is to read the following sections of
the (name
> of the leader's manual), specifically the pages xx to XX.  Specific
points
> are noted in this handout.
>
>      "If you have any questions, or should you want me to provide
some
> personal coaching in your unit, please give me a call at (give
phone number)
> or email me.
>
>      "Again I'm sorry to cut off the discussion prematurely and
leave out
> the best parts of this presentation.  I'm just following
directions, and we
> need to go on.  Let's now address..(next topic)."
>
>
>
> Try this one-minute ka-boom after every 20-minute presentation of
your
> abbreviated schedule.  By the third time, the participants will be
> chuckling;  by the fourth, laughing;  by the fifth, getting upset
at being
> short-changed;  and by the sixth, turning over a leaf of new
understanding.
> The training chair will be turning a new shade of red with
embarrassment.
> Your steadfast reputation will spike even higher than it soared
here in
> Grand Canyon Council.
>
>
>
> Best of luck up there,
>
> Y I V A S S
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> "I used to be a Buffalo, and a good ole Antelope, too!"
>
> .and staffer, CD, and veteran Scouter (50-plus years)
>
>

I agree that the break out subjects are not Venturing related and
should be the first place to pick up extra time.  That would at least
get me up to 2.5 hours.

The audience will likely be primarily LDS, but maybe 50/50 between
LDS chartered units and units chartered by other churches or
organizations.  Having been the Advisor for what I felt was a
successful crew chartered by the LDS church I feel sufficiently
qualified to influence the audience.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Ryan
Boise, Id


--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Jim von Schmacht"
<jvonschmacht@...> wrote:
>
> 4) I'd ignore the breakout - those items have zip to do with
Venturing -
> that gets you back some time.  The youth protection segment has
videos
> to watch which is why it is scheduled so long.  The entire schedule
is a
> bit long (unless you have 80 attendees, you won't use up that much
time)
> - we've accomplished it easily in 4 hours (a bit longer than they're
> allowing, but removing the round-robin stuff a bit closer)...  Give
the
> attendees what they need, not what the training chair (who
apparently
> doesn't know much about Venturing) has set up - let them know what
you
> are doing and why (explaining the importance of the change) - that
way
> everyone learns something.  Remember that the schedules are
determined
> by the event coordinator, which may not be the Training Chair, and
may
> not be someone familiar with Venturing.  What is the audience for
this -
> traditional or LDS?  (the programs a very similar but there are
> differences)
>
>
>
> Jim von Schmacht
>
> Loma Prieta District Training Chair
>
> WE3-31-00 Owl
>
> 7x WB Staffer (21C)
>
>
>

I am committee chair of a fairly new troop. We have one Eagle scout.
I joined the troop as chair mid-way through his Eagle process. We now
have our second Eagle candidate.

I was thinking of creating a document to keep track of what has to be
done in what order.....but if someone already has such a document
they are willing to share.....I don't have to re-invent the wheel.

I want something simple and short...such as:

1. Come up with several project ideas.
2. Talk to the leader of the organization which will benefit from the
project and determine which to do.
3. etc....

We are finding we run into simple questions all along the way..such
as the e-mail I just got from the scout asking for my signature on
his Eagle application (the project is finished). I had to explain
that it needed to be turned into our advancement chair who take it
from there.

A document such as I would like, would be very helpful to both the
Eagle candidate and the troop leaders.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Frankie Brewster
Troop 154
Committee Chair

In a message dated 8/9/07 10:56:52 PM, jeepone@... writes:


>
> I am committee chair of a fairly new troop. We have one Eagle scout.
> I joined the troop as chair mid-way through his Eagle process. We now
> have our second Eagle candidate.
>
> I was thinking of creating a document to keep track of what has to be
> done in what order.....but if someone already has such a document
> they are willing to share.....I don't have to re-invent the wheel.
>
> I want something simple and short...such as:
>
> 1. Come up with several project ideas.
> 2. Talk to the leader of the organization which will benefit from the
> project and determine which to do.
> 3. etc....
>
> We are finding we run into simple questions all along the way..such
> as the e-mail I just got from the scout asking for my signature on
> his Eagle application (the project is finished). I had to explain
> that it needed to be turned into our advancement chair who take it
> from there.
>
> A document such as I would like, would be very helpful to both the
> Eagle candidate and the troop leaders.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> Frankie Brewster
> Troop 154
> Committee Chair
>
> Hello Frankie,

Suggest that you and your Eagle Scout candidate check out the "Trail to
Eagle" section of the National Eagle Scout Association web site www.nesa.org.

Also,   as I am sure you are well aware,   it is HIS Eagle Scout and not
yours.    He needs to do the heavy lifting.    You don't need to smooth things
too
much.    Working through those challenges is part of the Eagle trail.

Best wishes,

Neil Lupton


**************************************
  Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When you have a mixed audience (as we do as well) it is worthwhile
noting the distinct difference in the way the program is implemented
inside and outside the LDS church - Venturing is a 2 year program
(following 11-year-old Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout) ending when the
boy turns 18, boys only (which isn't unusual in Venturing, but there are
no mixed or all girl Venturing crews).  Make sure to touch on Sea
Scouting (Ken needs to be happy after all and he is kinda landlocked now
[does Havasu count?]).  I'd almost say tell them that to do the material
justice, they really need more time to cover it - would they mind
staying a little later?  That leaves the decision up to them.



Good luck and thanks for taking care of our Venturing brethren and
sistren!



Jim von Schmacht

Loma Prieta District Training Chair

Loma Prieta Venturing Roundtable Commissioner



________________________________

From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ryan
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:18 AM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Venturing Leader Specific Training



I agree that the break out subjects are not Venturing related and
should be the first place to pick up extra time. That would at least
get me up to 2.5 hours.

The audience will likely be primarily LDS, but maybe 50/50 between
LDS chartered units and units chartered by other churches or
organizations. Having been the Advisor for what I felt was a
successful crew chartered by the LDS church I feel sufficiently
qualified to influence the audience.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Ryan
Boise, Id

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Jim von Schmacht"
<jvonschmacht@...> wrote:
>
> 4) I'd ignore the breakout - those items have zip to do with
Venturing -
> that gets you back some time. The youth protection segment has
videos
> to watch which is why it is scheduled so long. The entire schedule
is a
> bit long (unless you have 80 attendees, you won't use up that much
time)
> - we've accomplished it easily in 4 hours (a bit longer than they're
> allowing, but removing the round-robin stuff a bit closer)... Give
the
> attendees what they need, not what the training chair (who
apparently
> doesn't know much about Venturing) has set up - let them know what
you
> are doing and why (explaining the importance of the change) - that
way
> everyone learns something. Remember that the schedules are
determined
> by the event coordinator, which may not be the Training Chair, and
may
> not be someone familiar with Venturing. What is the audience for
this -
> traditional or LDS? (the programs a very similar but there are
> differences)
>
>
>
> Jim von Schmacht
>
> Loma Prieta District Training Chair
>
> WE3-31-00 Owl
>
> 7x WB Staffer (21C)
>
>
>


________________________________________________________________
ArcSight 2007 User Conference ~ Protecting Your Business
> Register now for the best conference rate
www.arcsight.com/userconference/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I always like to ask the candidate to remember when he was new to the troop. 
How he felt about the "big guys," and were they leaders and mentors to him?  Who
were the fellows who made the biggest impression on him, and why?

Actually I like to ask a similar question to Star and Life candidates, too.  The
plan being to bring the young man around to realizing his role as a leader of
the younger Scouts continues, and becomes even more important, as he ages and
progresses.

Dan O'Canna
Lexington, KY

>    Eagle Scoutmaster Conference
>    Posted by: "Steve" stevejb68@... stevejb68
>    Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 7:10 am ((PDT))

>Okay all you scoutmasters out there...

>What do you like to discuss with Eagle candidates during their
>scoutmaster conference for the rank of Eagle Scout? ...



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder
tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is an easy way to solve the problem of training courses not being run the
way they are suppose to be run.  If I am asked to do a training, I do it
according to the way BSA set the course to be run.  If some director wants to
change it.  I simply decline to teach the course.  That usually solves the
problem.  There is not a bussel basket of people out there qaulified or willing
to teach Venturing (or Cub Scouting) courses.  Loosing a trainer usually wakes
up the director.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Ryan" <rd_lancaster@...>
Reply-To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Date:  Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:06:13 -0000

>Ken,
>
>It's a pleasant surprise to get a response from a familiar name.  And
>your response is outstanding.  Certainly my objective is not only to
>have a good course, but also do it in a way that I'm invited back
>again.  No sense in winning the battle if I lose the war.
>
>I think that approaching the course as you suggested will allow me to
>still provide an effective course without burning my bridges at the
>same time.
>
>YIV,
>Ryan
>
>P.S.  Thank you for the kind words and compliment.
>
>
>
>--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Leja" <ken@...> wrote:
>>
>> Ryan -
>>
>>
>>
>> Always knew you'd jump feet first into the francas.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems far too many training chairs (district and council) opt
>for the
>> easy way out - listening to the squeaking wheel of uninitiated
>learners who
>> complain training takes too long, is a waste of their time, and
>takes them
>> away from their families.
>>
>>
>>
>> This lack of trained, informed leadership has a direct impact on
>Scouting's
>> numbers - without adequately trained leaders, we have an inadequate
>program
>> for our young people.  More simply stated:  Every youth deserves a
>FULLY
>> trained leader.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your choices are adequately identified and you must make a choice:
>(A)
>> Follow the abbreviated schedule and find ways to short-shrift the
>learners;
>> or (B) Follow the syllabus and alienate your training chair and all
>the
>> learners who thought they'd be done in two hours; or (C) Follow your
>> conscience and walk away knowing you'd alienate everyone AND break
>your
>> personal mantra of always "doing your best"; or (D) Follow an
>abbreviated
>> course and level with the learners.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let me explain "D" - Try to follow the shortened timeline
>abbreviating the
>> delivery ONLY where prudent without undermining the overall vision.
>> Calculate the material missing when "time is up" and provide a
>handout -
>> all-the-while broadcasting in the strongest language possible to the
>> participants the following:
>>
>>
>>
>>      "I'm sorry.  I was given only 20 minutes to present 90 minutes
>of
>> material - important material that I know you'll want to learn in
>working
>> with and for helping your young people.
>>
>>      "Therefore, your homework assignment - just like what your
>children are
>> expected to do after school - is to read the following sections of
>the (name
>> of the leader's manual), specifically the pages xx to XX.  Specific
>points
>> are noted in this handout.
>>
>>      "If you have any questions, or should you want me to provide
>some
>> personal coaching in your unit, please give me a call at (give
>phone number)
>> or email me.
>>
>>      "Again I'm sorry to cut off the discussion prematurely and
>leave out
>> the best parts of this presentation.  I'm just following
>directions, and we
>> need to go on.  Let's now address..(next topic)."
>>
>>
>>
>> Try this one-minute ka-boom after every 20-minute presentation of
>your
>> abbreviated schedule.  By the third time, the participants will be
>> chuckling;  by the fourth, laughing;  by the fifth, getting upset
>at being
>> short-changed;  and by the sixth, turning over a leaf of new
>understanding.
>> The training chair will be turning a new shade of red with
>embarrassment.
>> Your steadfast reputation will spike even higher than it soared
>here in
>> Grand Canyon Council.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best of luck up there,
>>
>> Y I V A S S
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> "I used to be a Buffalo, and a good ole Antelope, too!"
>>
>> .and staffer, CD, and veteran Scouter (50-plus years)
>>
>>
>
>
>

"I'd almost say tell them that to do the material justice, they really
need more time to cover it - would they mind staying a little later?
That leaves the decision up to them."

Another good idea.

Thanks
Ryan
Boise, ID

How many of you remember a comic strip that features a dog called Snoopy that
imagines
himself as a Beagle Scout? I have those original strips in a scrapbook.
http://melrosetroop68.org/2007/08/beagle-scout.html

I guess I kind of dated myself a bit, didn't I?

My son is a Life scout getting close to Eagle and I apln to make him a scrap
book of his scout years. I want to include some other  memorabilia such as the
US scout stamps and possibly the collection of Snoopy - Beagle scout. I have
looked at www.snoopy.com where a moth's worth of strips can be seen. Right now
the strip re running august 1960 and the beagle scout was in 1974.
Does anyone know a a way to get copies of the beagle scout collection besides
waiting the 14 years unitl it is re run?
Beth Padnos


----- Original Message ----
From: Steve <stevejb68@...>
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 11:10:43 PM
Subject: [Scouter_T] The Beagle Scout


How many of you remember a comic strip that features a dog called Snoopy that
imagines
himself as a Beagle Scout? I have those original strips in a scrapbook.
http://melrosetroop68.org/2007/08/beagle-scout.html

I guess I kind of dated myself a bit, didn't I?



For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
Yahoo! Groups Links





________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve wrote:
> How many of you remember a comic strip that features a dog called
> Snoopy that imagines himself as a Beagle Scout? I have those
> original strips in a scrapbook.
> http://melrosetroop68.org/2007/08/beagle-scout.html
>
> I guess I kind of dated myself a bit, didn't I?

The comic strip was "Peanuts", drawn by Charles Schultz.

Snoopy was a Beagle Scout, in addition to being a WWI flying ace,
and several other things.  He was also Charlie Brown's dog.
As a side note, the canary (?) that was in his Beagle Scout Troop
was named Woodstock, and was Snoopy's sidekick in many of the strips.

YiS,

Chuck

there is a book about the beagle scout called Take a Hike book ISBN:
0689849389 I found it as low as 2.95 through yahoo shopping at
http://shopping.yahoo.com/search/proxy?p=0689849389&field=isbn

good luck




--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, beth padnos <padnos@...> wrote:
>
> My son is a Life scout getting close to Eagle and I apln to make
him a scrap book of his scout years. I want to include some other
memorabilia such as the US scout stamps and possibly the collection
of Snoopy - Beagle scout. I have looked at www.snoopy.com where a
moth's worth of strips can be seen. Right now the strip re running
august 1960 and the beagle scout was in 1974.
> Does anyone know a a way to get copies of the beagle scout
collection besides waiting the 14 years unitl it is re run?
> Beth Padnos
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve <stevejb68@...>
> To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 11:10:43 PM
> Subject: [Scouter_T] The Beagle Scout
>
>
> How many of you remember a comic strip that features a dog called
Snoopy that imagines
> himself as a Beagle Scout? I have those original strips in a
scrapbook.
> http://melrosetroop68.org/2007/08/beagle-scout.html
>
> I guess I kind of dated myself a bit, didn't I?
>
>
>
> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
>   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>
> Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives
you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks for the link about this book. I just ordered a few of them. I think they
will make
excellent gifts for an Eagle Scout.

stevejb68
http://melrosetroop68.org/blog.html



--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Forest Getter" <jeztyr@...> wrote:
>
> there is a book about the beagle scout called Take a Hike book ISBN:
> 0689849389 I found it as low as 2.95 through yahoo shopping at
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/search/proxy?p=0689849389&field=isbn
>
> good luck
>
>
>
>
> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, beth padnos <padnos@> wrote:
> >
> > My son is a Life scout getting close to Eagle and I apln to make
> him a scrap book of his scout years. I want to include some other
> memorabilia such as the US scout stamps and possibly the collection
> of Snoopy - Beagle scout. I have looked at www.snoopy.com where a
> moth's worth of strips can be seen. Right now the strip re running
> august 1960 and the beagle scout was in 1974.
> > Does anyone know a a way to get copies of the beagle scout
> collection besides waiting the 14 years unitl it is re run?
> > Beth Padnos
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Steve <stevejb68@>
> > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 11:10:43 PM
> > Subject: [Scouter_T] The Beagle Scout
> >
> >
> > How many of you remember a comic strip that features a dog called
> Snoopy that imagines
> > himself as a Beagle Scout? I have those original strips in a
> scrapbook.
> > http://melrosetroop68.org/2007/08/beagle-scout.html

For those of you who enjoy watching skits being performed by Scouts I invite you
to watch
the newest skit posted online. This one is of the Scouts performing the Movie
Skit, in which
the director can never get his cast to act out a movie scene correctly. It can
be seen at:

http://melrosetroop68.org/videomovieskit06.html
or
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9322CC94E21A00E2


stevejb68
Scoutmaster, Troop 68, CMC
http://melrosetroop68.org/blog.html

Actually, this is an early reader book, and I now just the
Kindergartner-to-be who will love it. He's been wanting to be a Scout since
he can remember. Being five he has no clue about Snoopy, but loves dogs.
Thanks,
Corinna

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <stevejb68@...>
To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: The Beagle Scout


> Thanks for the link about this book. I just ordered a few of them. I think
> they will make
> excellent gifts for an Eagle Scout.
>
> stevejb68
> http://melrosetroop68.org/blog.html
>
>
>
> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Forest Getter" <jeztyr@...> wrote:
>>
>> there is a book about the beagle scout called Take a Hike book ISBN:
>> 0689849389 I found it as low as 2.95 through yahoo shopping at
>> http://shopping.yahoo.com/search/proxy?p=0689849389&field=isbn
>>
>> good luck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, beth padnos <padnos@> wrote:
>> >
>> > My son is a Life scout getting close to Eagle and I apln to make
>> him a scrap book of his scout years. I want to include some other
>> memorabilia such as the US scout stamps and possibly the collection
>> of Snoopy - Beagle scout. I have looked at www.snoopy.com where a
>> moth's worth of strips can be seen. Right now the strip re running
>> august 1960 and the beagle scout was in 1974.
>> > Does anyone know a a way to get copies of the beagle scout
>> collection besides waiting the 14 years unitl it is re run?
>> > Beth Padnos
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: Steve <stevejb68@>
>> > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 11:10:43 PM
>> > Subject: [Scouter_T] The Beagle Scout
>> >
>> >
>> > How many of you remember a comic strip that features a dog called
>> Snoopy that imagines
>> > himself as a Beagle Scout? I have those original strips in a
>> scrapbook.
>> > http://melrosetroop68.org/2007/08/beagle-scout.html
>
>
>
> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
>  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>
> Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

I just finished up a training session on Cub Leader Specific Training
and was asked a question I thought I know the answer to, but not sure
now.  I thought that if an Achievement had 5 parts and only required 3
to complete the achievement, the other 2, if done, counted towards
arrow points.  But I was shown on the Cub scout Pack Record form that
it says that only unearned achievents can be used for arrow points.  Is
the achievement everything listed to choose from to earn it or only the
ones you used to earn it?
Dan
  .~~~. ))
(\__/) .' ))) Daniel Grummert
/o o \/ .~ Scouting . . . it's for the boys
{o_, \ { Scouting . . . it's for the man he will become
/ , , ) \ Scouting . . . it's for America
`~ '-' \ } )) SR-CS-14 Beaver, SR-338 Buffalo
_( ( )_.'     USMC RETIRED
'---..{____}

[Daniel Grummert wrote:]
  I thought that if an Achievement had 5 parts and only required 3
to complete the achievement, the other 2, if done, counted towards
arrow points.  But I was shown on the Cub scout Pack Record form that
it says that only unearned achievents can be used for arrow points.  Is
the achievement everything listed to choose from to earn it or only the
ones you used to earn it?
[/Dan]

This changed, I believe, with the 2003 advancement changes.  Prior to that,
_any_ Bear "Requirement" (one element of an "Achievement")  that was not
counted for earning Bear rank could be counted toward Arrow Points.  With
the 2003 changes, only Requirements from _Achievements_ not counted for
earning Bear rank could be counted toward Arrow Points.

An explanation of the differences between Wolf and Bear, and between the old
and current requirements, can be found on the U.S. Scouting Service Project
advancement pages, http://usscouts.org/advancementTOC.asp#cubrank .
Briefly, as I understand it, Wolves use the Achievements section of their
Book to earn rank, and use the separate Electives portion of their book to
earn Arrow Points, and never the twain shall meet.  Bears, on the other
hand, use the Achievements section of their Book to earn rank, and then can
earn Arrow Points using _both_ electives from the Electives portion of their
book AND Requirements from those Achievements that were not counted for Bear
rank.

So the question only comes up with regard to Bear Rank.  Any Requirement
from an Achievement completed and counted for Bear Rank is off limits for
Arrow Points, even if a particular Requirement was not counted toward
earning that Achievement.

Cub Scout rank advancement is unnecessarily complicated, to an almost
ridiculous level.  Putting such complicated rules onto volunteer Den
Leaders -- who have plenty of other things to worry about -- is dumb.
Having such complicated rules FOR THIRD GRADERS (and their parents) is
bewildering.

Dan Kurtenbach
Fairfax, VA

I just uploaded the conference schedule for 2008.

YIS,
Jon Smith
Council Training Chair
Gulf Ridge Council, Tampa, FL

I have posted photos of my two adventures to Philmont this summer on my flickr
account.


The first trip was for Week 1 - Developing Supplemental Training.   The
collection can be found here (we did a lot of sight seeing, and this was broken
up into DAYS.  Philmont is the 'middle' of the trip.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilively/collections/72157601563102058/


The second trip was for Week 10 - Training Management Seminar.  These photos are
all together -- some taken be me, some by my son who was participating in the
Broncos program.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilively/sets/72157601422394266/



You'll see some Scouter_T regulars in the photos!


Ida

Does any one on this list have access to a list of the No.s assigned to
various Awards:

Such as: I know the Boy Scout Leader's Training award is S41

That is the only one I have. Can anyone help?

Thanks Jay