The Heart of Virginia Council will hold theirs on in March 2010. We are just
inside the 5 hour window.

http://www.doubleknot.com/registration/calendardetail.asp?ActivityKey=670275


--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Ilively@... wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a Commissioners College (or similar) in the Mid-Atlantic area
.... other than the one to be held at Greater Pittsburgh Council [date
conflict].
>
> Pennsylvania would be ideal, but MD, NJ, NY, WV, and OH are not out of the
question.
>
> CT, RI, MA (and north) ... and maybe even VA *might* be doable. [I would
prefer to keep the drive to under 5 hours. ;) ]
>
> Anyone out there know of courses that fit the bill?
>
>
> Ida Lively
> - District Commissioner Nittany Mountain District, Juniata Valley Council
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

The Heart of Virginia Council will hold theirs on in March 2010. We are just
inside the 5 hour window.

http://www.doubleknot.com/registration/calendardetail.asp?ActivityKey=670275


--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Ilively@... wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a Commissioners College (or similar) in the Mid-Atlantic area
.... other than the one to be held at Greater Pittsburgh Council [date
conflict].
>
> Pennsylvania would be ideal, but MD, NJ, NY, WV, and OH are not out of the
question.
>
> CT, RI, MA (and north) ... and maybe even VA *might* be doable. [I would
prefer to keep the drive to under 5 hours. ;) ]
>
> Anyone out there know of courses that fit the bill?
>
>
> Ida Lively
> - District Commissioner Nittany Mountain District, Juniata Valley Council
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I go back to an earlier posting.....

If your Person ID/Member ID/Number is entered into myScouting, PRIOR to you
taking online courses ... it records in ScoutNET fine.

If it is NOT in PRIOR to taking a course...it DOES NOT record into ScoutNET.

Any courses taken AFTER it is entered WILL record to ScoutNET just fine.

To get the courses taken before entry into ScoutNET:
1.  Print certificate and send it to the Council Registrar for manual entry.
2.  Take the online course again, after the Person ID has been entered.  It will
record it to ScoutNET then.

Yours in Scouting,
Brian Sutilla


--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "bnelson45" <bnelson45@...> wrote:
>
> Right now, if you have your membership ID in myscouting, it pours into Scout
Net just fine when you finish a course.  As far as I can tell.
>
> Bill
>
> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, struax@ wrote:
> >
> > And that is when the issues really begin....
> > Will all data map correctly back to scoutnet and be retrieved by reports
generated
> >
> > Scott
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "bnelson45" <bnelson45@>
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:15:50
> > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question
> >
> >
> > Late year the 3rd section will be available online
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> >   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>

I go back to an earlier posting..... Did you report this to National?

Bill

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "spatula751" <spatula@...> wrote:
>
> I go back to an earlier posting.....
>
> If your Person ID/Member ID/Number is entered into myScouting, PRIOR to you
taking online courses ... it records in ScoutNET fine.
>
> If it is NOT in PRIOR to taking a course...it DOES NOT record into ScoutNET.
>
> Any courses taken AFTER it is entered WILL record to ScoutNET just fine.
>
> To get the courses taken before entry into ScoutNET:
> 1.  Print certificate and send it to the Council Registrar for manual entry.
> 2.  Take the online course again, after the Person ID has been entered.  It
will record it to ScoutNET then.
>
> Yours in Scouting,
> Brian Sutilla
>
>
> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "bnelson45" <bnelson45@> wrote:
> >
> > Right now, if you have your membership ID in myscouting, it pours into Scout
Net just fine when you finish a course.  As far as I can tell.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, struax@ wrote:
> > >
> > > And that is when the issues really begin....
> > > Will all data map correctly back to scoutnet and be retrieved by reports
generated
> > >
> > > Scott
> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "bnelson45" <bnelson45@>
> > >
> > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:15:50
> > > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question
> > >
> > >
> > > Late year the 3rd section will be available online
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> > >   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
>

My printing of the "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leaders Specific
Training "course syllabus is 2001-2002 printing.
The item number seems to be 34879A.
According to Scoutstuff.org, there is a 34879A
and a DVD: AV-02DVD15
Are these really the most current?
====
My printing of the "Outdoor Leader Skills" course is the 2001 Edition. Item
33640.
The online Scoutstuff.org entry has the same number. Do we need to order a new
one?

Along the lines of both the "indoor" and 'outdoor" Boy Scout leader training
courses, I hear that they will be or have been revamped to use the Teaching
EDGE. If (past tense) they have been revised then I do NOT have this new
material (and we need to order it).
If they will (future tense) be revising this then when? We dont want to order a
new copy of the syllabi now and then have it go out of date.

I've been to the www.scouting.org web site and cant really figure out how to
determine what is the "current" training syllabi.

Al,
 
The latest printing is the 2008 printing of the manual and the DVD, if it is not
2008 it is not current.

Yours in Scouting,


Ben Ward



Eagle Scout Class 1999
Heart of Virginia Council # 602

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Al <AlBest@...> wrote:


From: Al <AlBest@...>
Subject: [Scouter_T] what is the "current" Boy Scout Specific training syllabi?
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 10:18 AM


 



My printing of the "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leaders Specific
Training "course syllabus is 2001-2002 printing.
The item number seems to be 34879A.
According to Scoutstuff.org, there is a 34879A
and a DVD: AV-02DVD15
Are these really the most current?
====
My printing of the "Outdoor Leader Skills" course is the 2001 Edition. Item
33640.
The online Scoutstuff.org entry has the same number. Do we need to order a new
one?

Along the lines of both the "indoor" and 'outdoor" Boy Scout leader training
courses, I hear that they will be or have been revamped to use the Teaching
EDGE. If (past tense) they have been revised then I do NOT have this new
material (and we need to order it).
If they will (future tense) be revising this then when? We dont want to order a
new copy of the syllabi now and then have it go out of date.

I've been to the www.scouting. org web site and cant really figure out how to
determine what is the "current" training syllabi.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

we are looking at using troopmaster reports as possible training surveys to
update scoutnet.  Anyone have any experience in this?  What is the best report
to use?

Bill

We used:



-        To unit leaders (SM, CC, and Training Chair):  Reportsŕ Adult
Membersŕ Training Status Details and Training List

-        To each individual adult leader:  Reports ŕ Adults Members ŕ
Individual Personal Detail (can ask them to validate all of the data, not
just the training data)



Yours In Scouting,



Mark Ellis

Training Chair

Aquia District

Stafford, VA

(703) 376-4150



From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of bnelson45
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 4:22 PM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Scouter_T] training reports from troopmaster to scoutnet





we are looking at using troopmaster reports as possible training surveys to
update scoutnet. Anyone have any experience in this? What is the best report
to use?

Bill





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill,

Yes, I did.  Response, and I quote:  "It is a known issue."

This is one of two responses I get when I report something.  The other is "your
incident number is xxxxx.  Check the flash page for updates."

Unlike most, I do report it because you never know if it has been reported
before.  I may work for the BSA, but my degree is in Management Computer
Systems.  I work PC Help Desks before and know how frustrating it is on both
ends.

Hopefully it will be resolved soon.  But I reported another error 4 months ago
that still hasn't been fixed with a MyBSA gadget that was working 5 months ago.

So I just sit, wait, and tell people how to solve the real issue, until the
problem is fixed.  (In this case below the real issue is getting the training
recorded.  Because after all it is more important that 1. They are actually
trained (a whole other topic) and 2. That it is recorded in the system.  Not how
it is recored.)

Yours in Scouting,
Brian Sutilla


--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "bnelson45" <bnelson45@...> wrote:
>
> I go back to an earlier posting..... Did you report this to National?
>
> Bill
>
> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "spatula751" <spatula@> wrote:
> >
> > I go back to an earlier posting.....
> >
> > If your Person ID/Member ID/Number is entered into myScouting, PRIOR to you
taking online courses ... it records in ScoutNET fine.
> >
> > If it is NOT in PRIOR to taking a course...it DOES NOT record into ScoutNET.
> >
> > Any courses taken AFTER it is entered WILL record to ScoutNET just fine.
> >
> > To get the courses taken before entry into ScoutNET:
> > 1.  Print certificate and send it to the Council Registrar for manual entry.
> > 2.  Take the online course again, after the Person ID has been entered.  It
will record it to ScoutNET then.
> >
> > Yours in Scouting,
> > Brian Sutilla
> >
> >
> > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "bnelson45" <bnelson45@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Right now, if you have your membership ID in myscouting, it pours into
Scout Net just fine when you finish a course.  As far as I can tell.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, struax@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And that is when the issues really begin....
> > > > Will all data map correctly back to scoutnet and be retrieved by reports
generated
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "bnelson45" <bnelson45@>
> > > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:15:50
> > > > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Late year the 3rd section will be available online
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> > > >   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

So, let's see.  BSA has approximately 1.1 million (yes, million) adult
leaders.  So, say we only ask 10% of them (let that represent the number of
new leaders each year) to hit the myscouting.org site and do their initial
leader training (Fast Start for their position, This is Scouting, and Youth
Protection).  If their BSA ID number is there, everything works fine and
ScoutNet is automatically updated.



But what that means is even if the leader gets a BSA ID number and enters it
on myscouting.org, any of the training accomplished prior to the BSA ID
number being doesn't go anywhere.  And most new leaders don't get a BSA ID
number for several months (if the process is working fine).



Does the National Office realize how much work it takes by humans (the
leader, unit leaders, district training staff, and council staff) to correct
this simple "programming" issue so we know who is trained and who isn't?
It's hundreds of thousands of records, folks!  That's hours and hours of
work.  And they have the audacity to say training is important.  I believe
training is, but this is simple programming, folks.    This ain't rocket
science.



Get to it, please.  You're wasting our time, and more importantly, you're
losing our trust.



Mark Ellis

Training Chair



From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of spatula751
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:22 PM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question





Bill,

Yes, I did. Response, and I quote: "It is a known issue."

This is one of two responses I get when I report something. The other is
"your incident number is xxxxx. Check the flash page for updates."

Unlike most, I do report it because you never know if it has been reported
before. I may work for the BSA, but my degree is in Management Computer
Systems. I work PC Help Desks before and know how frustrating it is on both
ends.

Hopefully it will be resolved soon. But I reported another error 4 months
ago that still hasn't been fixed with a MyBSA gadget that was working 5
months ago.

So I just sit, wait, and tell people how to solve the real issue, until the
problem is fixed. (In this case below the real issue is getting the training
recorded. Because after all it is more important that 1. They are actually
trained (a whole other topic) and 2. That it is recorded in the system. Not
how it is recored.)

Yours in Scouting,
Brian Sutilla

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"bnelson45" <bnelson45@...> wrote:
>
> I go back to an earlier posting..... Did you report this to National?
>
> Bill
>
> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"spatula751" <spatula@> wrote:
> >
> > I go back to an earlier posting.....
> >
> > If your Person ID/Member ID/Number is entered into myScouting, PRIOR to
you taking online courses ... it records in ScoutNET fine.
> >
> > If it is NOT in PRIOR to taking a course...it DOES NOT record into
ScoutNET.
> >
> > Any courses taken AFTER it is entered WILL record to ScoutNET just fine.
> >
> > To get the courses taken before entry into ScoutNET:
> > 1. Print certificate and send it to the Council Registrar for manual
entry.
> > 2. Take the online course again, after the Person ID has been entered.
It will record it to ScoutNET then.
> >
> > Yours in Scouting,
> > Brian Sutilla
> >
> >
> > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"bnelson45" <bnelson45@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Right now, if you have your membership ID in myscouting, it pours into
Scout Net just fine when you finish a course. As far as I can tell.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
, struax@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And that is when the issues really begin....
> > > > Will all data map correctly back to scoutnet and be retrieved by
reports generated
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "bnelson45" <bnelson45@>
> > > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:15:50
> > > > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Late year the 3rd section will be available online
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> > > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

WE know there are problems and National is trying to fix it.    Right now,
it is a pain.



However, this is about the boys (and girls)--no matter what the effort is,
if it helps them, its worth it.



From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Ellis
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 6:48 PM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question





So, let's see. BSA has approximately 1.1 million (yes, million) adult
leaders. So, say we only ask 10% of them (let that represent the number of
new leaders each year) to hit the myscouting.org site and do their initial
leader training (Fast Start for their position, This is Scouting, and Youth
Protection). If their BSA ID number is there, everything works fine and
ScoutNet is automatically updated.

But what that means is even if the leader gets a BSA ID number and enters it
on myscouting.org, any of the training accomplished prior to the BSA ID
number being doesn't go anywhere. And most new leaders don't get a BSA ID
number for several months (if the process is working fine).

Does the National Office realize how much work it takes by humans (the
leader, unit leaders, district training staff, and council staff) to correct
this simple "programming" issue so we know who is trained and who isn't?
It's hundreds of thousands of records, folks! That's hours and hours of
work. And they have the audacity to say training is important. I believe
training is, but this is simple programming, folks. This ain't rocket
science.

Get to it, please. You're wasting our time, and more importantly, you're
losing our trust.

Mark Ellis

Training Chair

From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of spatula751
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:22 PM
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question

Bill,

Yes, I did. Response, and I quote: "It is a known issue."

This is one of two responses I get when I report something. The other is
"your incident number is xxxxx. Check the flash page for updates."

Unlike most, I do report it because you never know if it has been reported
before. I may work for the BSA, but my degree is in Management Computer
Systems. I work PC Help Desks before and know how frustrating it is on both
ends.

Hopefully it will be resolved soon. But I reported another error 4 months
ago that still hasn't been fixed with a MyBSA gadget that was working 5
months ago.

So I just sit, wait, and tell people how to solve the real issue, until the
problem is fixed. (In this case below the real issue is getting the training
recorded. Because after all it is more important that 1. They are actually
trained (a whole other topic) and 2. That it is recorded in the system. Not
how it is recored.)

Yours in Scouting,
Brian Sutilla

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"bnelson45" <bnelson45@...> wrote:
>
> I go back to an earlier posting..... Did you report this to National?
>
> Bill
>
> --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"spatula751" <spatula@> wrote:
> >
> > I go back to an earlier posting.....
> >
> > If your Person ID/Member ID/Number is entered into myScouting, PRIOR to
you taking online courses ... it records in ScoutNET fine.
> >
> > If it is NOT in PRIOR to taking a course...it DOES NOT record into
ScoutNET.
> >
> > Any courses taken AFTER it is entered WILL record to ScoutNET just fine.
> >
> > To get the courses taken before entry into ScoutNET:
> > 1. Print certificate and send it to the Council Registrar for manual
entry.
> > 2. Take the online course again, after the Person ID has been entered.
It will record it to ScoutNET then.
> >
> > Yours in Scouting,
> > Brian Sutilla
> >
> >
> > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"bnelson45" <bnelson45@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Right now, if you have your membership ID in myscouting, it pours into
Scout Net just fine when you finish a course. As far as I can tell.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
, struax@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And that is when the issues really begin....
> > > > Will all data map correctly back to scoutnet and be retrieved by
reports generated
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "bnelson45" <bnelson45@>
> > > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:15:50
> > > > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: CS Training Requirements Question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Late year the 3rd section will be available online
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> > > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hudson Valley Council in NY will hold our University and Pow-Wow at John
Jay High School in Fishkill NY 11/7 Info on web site hvcbsa.org

Ed  Harvey
Dutchess District Training Chair
Every Scout Deserves a Trained  Leader


In a message dated 10/2/2009 7:41:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
capersisle@... writes:




The Heart of Virginia Council will hold theirs on in March 2010. We are
just inside the 5 hour window.

_http://www.doubleknhttp://www.doublhttp://www.doublhttp://www.doublhttp://w
w_
(http://www.doubleknot.com/registration/calendardetail.asp?ActivityKey=670275)

---  In _scouter_t@yahoogrouscoute_ (mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com) ,
Ilively@... wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a Commissioners College (or  similar) in the Mid-Atlantic
area .... other than the one to be held at  Greater Pittsburgh Council
[date conflict].
>
> Pennsylvania  would be ideal, but MD, NJ, NY, WV, and OH are not out of
the question.
>
> CT, RI, MA (and north) ... and maybe even VA *might* be  doable. [I would
prefer to keep the drive to under 5 hours. ;) ]
>
> Anyone out there know of courses that fit the bill?
>
>
> Ida Lively
> - District Commissioner Nittany Mountain  District, Juniata Valley
Council
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been asked to present the break-out session for Cubmaster at the leader
specific training for our district. This will be my first time doing so. I have
the power point and the syllabus, but was wondering if anyone who has taught
this before had any suggestions.

Thanks,
Alicia

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "a_riggans" <ariggans@...> wrote:
>
> I have been asked to present the break-out session for Cubmaster at the leader
specific training for our district. This will be my first time doing so. I have
the power point and the syllabus, but was wondering if anyone who has taught
this before had any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Alicia
>
In my experience of teaching other ranks for CSLST (as well as the first two
sections), I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to be enthusiastic and
well-prepared. Simply reading the provided speaker's notes for parts 1, 2, or 3
to your trainees will neither engage nor inform them. (You won't have any fun,
either.) Take several separate nights to expand the published speaker's notes
where necessary and add examples of your and your colleagues' experience.

Also, as instructed by the curriculum I choose energetic "sparklers" (cheers,
songs, even audience participation and a game) in parts 1 and 2. The first time
I taught the practical information in part 3, though, I noticed that it was
pretty dull due to the absence of sparklers, so I've added some there, too.

You CAN teach CSLST in the prescribed three hours. But even if you expand it to
six hours to go through tons of additional sparklers and practical advice,
please teach your trainees how Scouters learn: By studying the published body of
Scouting knowledge (online and printed by national), attending training courses
(online and live), and with guidance from trained Scouters in the field.

Remind your trainees that a Scout is Resourceful. They must engage learning and
development personally and continously (in one of the many formats offered for
their convenience). They cannot learn everything in three (or even six) hours.

Finally, let us remember as trainers that our purpose is to train leaders to
lead Scouts, not to run training courses.

And, have fun training!

YIS

Bill

To many trainers like to hear there own voice. Work with the syllabus and make
it as interactive as possible. Also, Cub scouting is also about cermonies and
fun.  Don't blow off have opening ceremony, award ceremony and a song or two.
herb d

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "a_riggans" <ariggans@...> wrote:
>
> I have been asked to present the break-out session for Cubmaster at the leader
specific training for our district. This will be my first time doing so. I have
the power point and the syllabus, but was wondering if anyone who has taught
this before had any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Alicia
>

We have a national Scout Shop.

I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
intended to put the two courses on themselves.

My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.  My
council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything that has
a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control it.

What do you guys/gals in other councils do?  Or am I over-reacting and should,
with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase manuals and
do their own training?

I find it surprising that anyone can buy the sylabus for trainings. How can that
be? It seems if anyone could put on a training then why do councils even bother?
It seems the inconsistencies and urban myths would run rampant..........

connie

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, apatschin75 <tttrack@...> wrote:

We have a national Scout Shop.

I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
intended to put the two courses on themselves.

My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.  My
council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything that has
a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control it.

What do you guys/gals in other councils do?  Or am I over-reacting and should,
with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase manuals and
do their own training?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well I purchased all the training material prior to taking my training,  and
now I use it to conduct training, Of course there are certain syllabuses I
have not been able to get my hands on such as the syllabus for Wood Badge.

I think the more important question should be, will they be considered
trained  for training themselves and do they know it?   I personally do not
believe they should be able to self-train, however I have no problem with
them reading the material ahead of time.

Ed Mitchell
SM T1508
CC P4508
Member of the district training committee


On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM, apatschin75 <tttrack@...> wrote:

>
>
> We have a national Scout Shop.
>
> I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
> intended to put the two courses on themselves.
>
> My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.
> My council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything
> that has a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control
> it.
>
> What do you guys/gals in other councils do? Or am I over-reacting and
> should, with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase
> manuals and do their own training?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Take a visit to your local scout shop, at the three I have visited this year
(in different councils no less) they are on the shelf for all to see and
buy.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>wrote:

>
>
> I find it surprising that anyone can buy the sylabus for trainings. How can
> that be? It seems if anyone could put on a training then why do councils
> even bother? It seems the inconsistencies and urban myths would run
> rampant..........
>
> connie
>
>
> --- On Thu, 10/8/09, apatschin75 <tttrack@... <tttrack%40aol.com>>
> wrote:
>
> We have a national Scout Shop.
>
> I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
> intended to put the two courses on themselves.
>
> My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.
> My council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything
> that has a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control
> it.
>
> What do you guys/gals in other councils do?  Or am I over-reacting and
> should, with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase
> manuals and do their own training?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, I've seen many coursebooks available for public purchase at Scout
shops. It is the responsibility of the district training chair to develop a
culture of learning and environment where Scouters will prefer to
have trained trainers to teach them. Restricting the material from public
sale would help, but there seem to be scanned copies available at various
websites. Maybe if we encourage each other to keep our mission in mind, it
would guide our actions.

YIS

Bill

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:46 PM, apatschin75 <tttrack@...> wrote:

>
>
> We have a national Scout Shop.
>
> I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
> intended to put the two courses on themselves.
>
> My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.
> My council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything
> that has a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control
> it.
>
> What do you guys/gals in other councils do? Or am I over-reacting and
> should, with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase
> manuals and do their own training?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I see no problem with trainers buying the copyrighted BSA training
materials. In fact, I encourage Scouters to buy all training materials they
are using the first time they lead that particular training. We all should
know there are ethical and legal questions about passing copyrighted BSA
training materials to other trainers as PDFs without compensating the BSA
for them. However, one should note that buying a syllabus doesn't
automatically make someone a certified trainer.
      BALOO and IOLS courses should never be held under any auspices other
than through the council with Trainer's EDGE or Trainer Development
Conference trainers leading that training.  Since a district BALOO course is
typically sanctioned by the Council Training Committee and led by district
trainers, it could be held with no problem with the following provisos: it
should be advertised as a district event and anyone in that district or in
the council (or any would-be participants from out-of-council) should be
welcomed to take part as well.
      If the pack does not want to put the BALOO course on as a
district-sponsored event with sanctioned district trainers (Trainer's EDGE
or TDC) taking part, I would say it would be wise to contact the district
training chair and the council training chair..
      However, because of the nature of IOLS, I do not believe it is wise for
one troop to put on what should clearly be a council-led training.  Again, I
would contact the district training chair and the council training chair and
have them nip this in the bud right away. Ultimately,non-sanctioned training
courses led by trainers who are not certified are subject to reprimands such
as these courses not being recognized by the council.

Yours in Scouter training,

Alan Smason
New Orleans, LA
   -----Original Message-----
   From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of apatschin75
   Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:46 AM
   To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [Scouter_T] Availability of Training Materials for Purchase


     We have a national Scout Shop.

   I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
intended to put the two courses on themselves.

   My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.
My council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything
that has a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control
it.

   What do you guys/gals in other councils do? Or am I over-reacting and
should, with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase
manuals and do their own training?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ed,

I'm glad to see that others purchase the training syllabi before they attend
training. I've done this same thing for many years.

May I share some information on the methods of training described in the
Leadership Training Committee Guide: Plans, Procedures, Materials, No 34169
published by the BSA? You may find it of interest that Self Study is one of the
three methods or situations for training identified by the BSA. Often as
trainers we only focus on the group training method or environment. Must of us
prefer the group experience for many good reasons. However, there are also
Personal Coaching and Self-Study available as methods to accomplish our goal of
training our leaders. Each method of training has a place when administered
properly and recorded properly

As for the syllabi for BSA training events being available for purchase to the
general public this is a long standing practice. The only significantly upheld
restriction on acquiring a training syllabus is the Wood Badge syllabus. Dang, I
would prefer it was not withheld, but I understand and accept their decision.

Whether the training of a volunteer is conducted using a group method, Personal
Coaching, or Self Study it only gets recorded as a completed training when the
training attendance report is properly submitted to the local council for
inclusion in the ScoutNet record for those completing the training. So units can
hold their own training, but it ain't official until it gets recorded and
reported properly to the local council. This is where the district and council
training staff can exhibit their appropriate quality control on the training
process.

Yours Truly in Service,
Rick Pushies


--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Edward Mitchell <edward.b.mitchell@...> wrote:
>
> Well I purchased all the training material prior to taking my training,  and
> now I use it to conduct training, Of course there are certain syllabuses I
> have not been able to get my hands on such as the syllabus for Wood Badge.
>
> I think the more important question should be, will they be considered
> trained  for training themselves and do they know it?   I personally do not
> believe they should be able to self-train, however I have no problem with
> them reading the material ahead of time.
>
> Ed Mitchell
> SM T1508
> CC P4508
> Member of the district training committee
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM, apatschin75 <tttrack@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We have a national Scout Shop.
> >
> > I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
> > intended to put the two courses on themselves.
> >
> > My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.
> > My council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything
> > that has a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control
> > it.
> >
> > What do you guys/gals in other councils do? Or am I over-reacting and
> > should, with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase
> > manuals and do their own training?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

They don't get credit for taking the training unless a authorized instructor
gives it.

This is a council training committee issue

Yours In Scouting





Mike Crothers

Unit Commissioner

Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner

Lagonda District, Tecumseh Council



I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11

and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13

and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Availability of Training Materials for Purchase
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 9:53 AM






 





                   I find it surprising that anyone can buy the sylabus for
trainings. How can that be? It seems if anyone could put on a training then why
do councils even bother? It seems the inconsistencies and urban myths would run
rampant..... .....



connie



--- On Thu, 10/8/09, apatschin75 <tttrack@aol. com> wrote:



We have a national Scout Shop.



I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
intended to put the two courses on themselves.



My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.  My
council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything that has
a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control it.



What do you guys/gals in other councils do?  Or am I over-reacting and should,
with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase manuals and
do their own training?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

. . . with training records. The following (long) quote is from a BSA employee
posted to the Innovation Engine:



"We should be able to run training reports for all volunteers for a specific
unit or district. It should list the leaders, their position, what training they
have taken with the dates and then what training they need to become a trained
leader. We have volunteers come in to our office on a weekly basis looking for
this information and we are unable to give them useful reports. We either have
to spend time printing person profiles for the whole unit (because this is the
only way to get training with dates) or we try and run a Training Complete and a
Training Not Complete reports. Trying to get those reports are very difficult to
obtain. They either take hours to run or time out and you need to go back and
request the same reports again and again, until they finally work. Who has the
time for that, I know we don’t at our council. If you are lucky to get the
reports they are not useful. They only list codes with no dates. The volunteer
has no need to know all the codes our system uses and if no dates are listed
what good are they to the volunteers anyway.
And, why doesn’t training have expiration dates? For example; we have a Scout
Master that registered 10 years ago took all the training and was conceder
trained back then. He has not been a leader for the last 8 years and then once
again is called to be a Scout Master, he still shows20as trained. Why? I know
training has changed in the last 10 years. Another reason we should have
expiration dates; we have people that show trained on the roster so you go and
look at what training they have taken, now where does it show under the training
tab any of the training required to be trained for that position but it stills
shows them trained and no way to remove it.
Youth Protection should be required to be conceder trained? The tour permit
requires leaders to have taken Youth Protection in the last two years; if it is
required ever two years then it should expire automatically two years from the
date taken and then send them a reminder to take it again if they still are a
registered leader. It would be nice too if once you entered a new leader in the
system that it generated a letter or e-mail (if entered) thanking and telling
them the importance of being a trained leader and how to obtain such
training’s. The system sends a thank you letter to all new Scout Parents, why
can’t we do the same for registered leaders?
We put so much information in to ScoutNET but we have such a hard time getting
it out, I have never seen a data base program with so little options for custom
reports. It is so frustrating for us to have to tell the professionals no sorry
we can’t do that or pull so many different reports and spend the time
combining them in to what they want. I honestly don’t think our council uses
one report straight out of the sy
stem. It is even more frustrating when you go to the training provided by the
region and they tell you that we are not important enough to listen too. They
only want to listen to the Scout Executive. When you go to these trainings it is
a great opportunity for them to take back to National on how to improve the
system from the people that work in it every day. Not be told to play Solitaire
when the system is slow. (And yes that is exactly what they told us)."



______________

I gleaned a piece of information from the above. A "Person Profile" will
generate info on a specific leader and show all of the trainings that person has
recorded WITH dates of training. It is apparently a laborious report to
generate, but does exist.  Difficult but not impossible to obtain the info
apparently.

YiS,

Jamie Niss Dunn
Pack Trainer, Pack 512
Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
Troop Committee, Troop 509
Ham Lake, MN
Cub Scout Training Coordinator
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Three Rivers District


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<Ultimately,non-sanctioned training
courses led by trainers who are not certified are subject to reprimands such
as these courses not being recognized by the council.>>



If the leaders from a unit who held their own course in this fashion even knew
to submit a Training Attendance Report, would your council accept it? Would the
staff in the office know enough to recognize that the listed "trainers" are or
are not authorized to present these courses? What would the reaction be of these
leaders being told that even though they had attended a course it didn't
"count"? Would your council disapprove a tour permit or camping application for
a Cub Scout Pack with such a BALOO trained leader? Do your staff members check
training records to see if a pack has a BALOO trained leader.



Lots of worms in this can!



Jamie Niss Dunn
Pack Trainer, Pack 512
Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
Troop Committee, Troop 509
Ham Lake, MN
Cub Scout Training Coordinator
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Three Rivers District








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rick:  Interesting comment.  I agree with you that self-study is listed in the
Leadership Training Committee Guide as the least desirable training option. 
However, it also talks about about a personal visit from a instructor (from
district or council) as well as "self study questions after each segment of
training" that are contained in a self study guide.   Not sure I have ever seen
a self study guide for adult leader training.

Individual or units can't "roll their own" and then claim credit.  District or
Council trainers must be involved in face-to-face basic adult leader training --
period.

In our district, we have a statement posted to the district website that says
which courses are taught at the district level.  None are delegated to the unit
level, though completion of web-based courses are highly encouraged.

Seems like this unit wants to get everyone trained up.  I'd try to turn this
into a positive, though I would be interested in knowing why they want to do
this on their own versus attending the regularly scheduled district or council
events.  Perhaps working with the unit and the district / council training teams
to get the training accomplished (particularly if they make all the physicial
and logistical arrangements) will lead to more leaders trained and perhaps
additions to your training staff.  We do training targeted at indvidual units
from time to time, but we require publicizing the event at least 60 days in
advance both district- and council-wide.

Mark Ellis
Training Chair
Aquia District, NCAC
(703) 376-4150

-------------------

Oct 8, 2009 01:40:59 PM, scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:





Hello Ed,

I'm glad to see that others purchase the training syllabi before they attend
training. I've done this same thing for many years.

May I share some information on the methods of training described in the
Leadership Training Committee Guide: Plans, Procedures, Materials, No 34169
published by the BSA? You may find it of interest that Self Study is one of the
three methods or situations for training identified by the BSA. Often as
trainers we only focus on the group training method or environment. Must of us
prefer the group experience for many good reasons. However, there are also
Personal Coaching and Self-Study available as methods to accomplish our goal of
training our leaders. Each method of training has a place when administered
properly and recorded properly

As for the syllabi for BSA training events being available for purchase to the
general public this is a long standing practice. The only significantly upheld
restriction on acquiring a training syllabus is the Wood Badge syllabus. Dang, I
would prefer it was not withheld, but I understand and accept their decision.

Whether the training of a volunteer is conducted using a group method, Personal
Coaching, or Self Study it only gets recorded as a completed training when the
training attendance report is properly submitted to the local council for
inclusion in the ScoutNet record for those completing the training. So units can
hold their own training, but it ain't official until it gets recorded and
reported properly to the local council. This is where the district and council
training staff can exhibit their appropriate quality control on the training
process.

Yours Truly in Service,
Rick Pushies

--- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Edward Mitchell wrote:
>
> Well I purchased all the training material prior to taking my training, and
> now I use it to conduct training, Of course there are certain syllabuses I
> have not been able to get my hands on such as the syllabus for Wood Badge.
>
> I think the more important question should be, will they be considered
> trained for training themselves and do they know it? I personally do not
> believe they should be able to self-train, however I have no problem with
> them reading the material ahead of time.
>
> Ed Mitchell
> SM T1508
> CC P4508
> Member of the district training committee
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM, apatschin75 wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We have a national Scout Shop.
> >
> > I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and
> > intended to put the two courses on themselves.
> >
> > My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.
> > My council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything
> > that has a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control
> > it.
> >
> > What do you guys/gals in other councils do? Or am I over-reacting and
> > should, with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase
> > manuals and do their own training?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Two factors to consider:

1. Purchase of Training Material
a. Most councils do not provide training material, other than one copy of the
syllabus for each different training subject to each district.
b. Most trainer must buy or copy the master syllabus in order to have their own
copy.

2. Authorized Trainers
a. Don't forget the Pack Trainer, which national say can teach Cub Scout Leader
Specific.

Yours In Scouting





Mike Crothers

Unit Commissioner

Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner

Lagonda District, Tecumseh Council



I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11

and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13

and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Mark Ellis <mark.ellis21@...> wrote:

From: Mark Ellis <mark.ellis21@...>
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Availability of Training Materials for Purchase
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 11:09 AM






 





                   Rick:  Interesting comment.  I agree with you that self-study
is listed in the Leadership Training Committee Guide as the least desirable
training option.  However, it also talks about about a personal visit from a
instructor (from district or council) as well as "self study questions after
each segment of training" that are contained in a self study guide.   Not sure I
have ever seen a self study guide for adult leader training.



Individual or units can't "roll their own" and then claim credit.  District or
Council trainers must be involved in face-to-face basic adult leader training --
period.



In our district, we have a statement posted to the district website that says
which courses are taught at the district level.  None are delegated to the unit
level, though completion of web-based courses are highly encouraged.



Seems like this unit wants to get everyone trained up.  I'd try to turn this
into a positive, though I would be interested in knowing why they want to do
this on their own versus attending the regularly scheduled district or council
events.  Perhaps working with the unit and the district / council training teams
to get the training accomplished (particularly if they make all the physicial
and logistical arrangements) will lead to more leaders trained and perhaps
additions to your training staff.  We do training targeted at indvidual units
from time to time, but we require publicizing the event at least 60 days in
advance both district- and council-wide.



Mark Ellis

Training Chair

Aquia District, NCAC

(703) 376-4150



------------ -------



Oct 8, 2009 01:40:59 PM, scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com wrote:



Hello Ed,



I'm glad to see that others purchase the training syllabi before they attend
training. I've done this same thing for many years.



May I share some information on the methods of training described in the
Leadership Training Committee Guide: Plans, Procedures, Materials, No 34169
published by the BSA? You may find it of interest that Self Study is one of the
three methods or situations for training identified by the BSA. Often as
trainers we only focus on the group training method or environment. Must of us
prefer the group experience for many good reasons. However, there are also
Personal Coaching and Self-Study available as methods to accomplish our goal of
training our leaders. Each method of training has a place when administered
properly and recorded properly



As for the syllabi for BSA training events being available for purchase to the
general public this is a long standing practice. The only significantly upheld
restriction on acquiring a training syllabus is the Wood Badge syllabus. Dang, I
would prefer it was not withheld, but I understand and accept their decision.



Whether the training of a volunteer is conducted using a group method, Personal
Coaching, or Self Study it only gets recorded as a completed training when the
training attendance report is properly submitted to the local council for
inclusion in the ScoutNet record for those completing the training. So units can
hold their own training, but it ain't official until it gets recorded and
reported properly to the local council. This is where the district and council
training staff can exhibit their appropriate quality control on the training
process.



Yours Truly in Service,

Rick Pushies



--- In scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com, Edward Mitchell wrote:

>

> Well I purchased all the training material prior to taking my training, and

> now I use it to conduct training, Of course there are certain syllabuses I

> have not been able to get my hands on such as the syllabus for Wood Badge.

>

> I think the more important question should be, will they be considered

> trained for training themselves and do they know it? I personally do not

> believe they should be able to self-train, however I have no problem with

> them reading the material ahead of time.

>

> Ed Mitchell

> SM T1508

> CC P4508

> Member of the district training committee

>

>

> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM, apatschin75 wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > We have a national Scout Shop.

> >

> > I found out today that a troop/pack had ordered IOLS and BALOO manuals and

> > intended to put the two courses on themselves.

> >

> > My first thought was that they should not be able to purchase/order them.

> > My council training advisor tells me that the Scout Shop can sell anything

> > that has a valid number, and he doesn't think we have the ability to control

> > it.

> >

> > What do you guys/gals in other councils do? Or am I over-reacting and

> > should, with the liberalization of training venues, allow units to purchase

> > manuals and do their own training?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pack Trainer is not a substitute for the District training(ers) - they are there
to encourage the leaders to take training courses provided by District, Council,
and National.

From the National website:
Pack Trainer Responsibilities: The pack trainer is responsible for:
	 * Conducting orientation of new families and pack leaders
	 * Encouraging pack leaders to attend Cub Scout Leader Basic Training, which
includes New Leader Essentials and Cub Scout Leader Specific Training
	 * Helping with Unit Leadership Enhancements during pack leaders' meetings
	 * Conducting other training as designated by the district and/or council
	 * Encouraging pack leaders toattend ongoing training such as Youth Protection
training, roundtable, pow wow, BALOO, Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders,
and Wood Badge
	 * Remaining current with training material and program updates 
	 * Keeping track of pack training records
	 * Encouraging den chiefs to attend Den Chief Training




________________________________
From: Michael Crothers <dowrightbw@...>
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 2:37:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Availability of Training Materials for Purchase

 
Two factors to consider:

1. Purchase of Training Material
a. Most councils do not provide training material, other than one copy of the
syllabus for each different training subject to each district.
b. Most trainer must buy or copy the master syllabus in order to have their own
copy.

2. Authorized Trainers
a. Don't forget the Pack Trainer, which national say can teach Cub Scout Leader
Specific.
Yours In Scouting
Mike Crothers
Unit Commissioner
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Lagonda District, Tecumseh Council
I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11
and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13
and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06

Yes, they are there for all listed, one of which is "Conducting other training
as designated by the district and/or council". I have Pack trainers who also
train for me and I'm comfortable allowing them to provide the training that I've
pre-approved. They provide me the attendees information and I add them to a
training roster. We aren't here to put on training sessions. We're here to get
leaders trained, however we feel comfortable with the process.



Bruce Johnson


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Buckley" <tm.buckley@...>
To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:57:29 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Availability of Training Materials for Purchase

 




Pack Trainer is not a substitute for the District training(ers) - they are there
to encourage the leaders to take training courses provided by District,
Council, and National.

From the National website:
Pack Trainer Responsibilities: The pack trainer is responsible for:
* Conducting orientation of new families and pack leaders
* Encouraging pack leaders to attend Cub Scout Leader Basic Training, which
includes New Leader Essentials and Cub Scout Leader Specific Training
* Helping with Unit Leadership Enhancements during pack leaders' meetings
* Conducting other training as designated by the district and/or council
* Encouraging pack leaders toattend ongoing training such as Youth Protection
training, roundtable, pow wow, BALOO, Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders,
and Wood Badge
* Remaining current with training material and program updates 
* Keeping track of pack training records
* Encouraging den chiefs to attend Den Chief Training

________________________________
From: Michael Crothers < dowrightbw@... >
To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 2:37:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Availability of Training Materials for Purchase

 
Two factors to consider:

1. Purchase of Training Material
a. Most councils do not provide training material, other than one copy of the
syllabus for each different training subject to each district.
b. Most trainer must buy or copy the master syllabus in order to have their own
copy.

2. Authorized Trainers
a. Don't forget the Pack Trainer, which national say can teach Cub Scout Leader
Specific.
Yours In Scouting
Mike Crothers
Unit Commissioner
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Lagonda District, Tecumseh Council
I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11
and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13
and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yup.  Can't wait for the "train wreck" next year when top leaders are
required to be trained and National finds out that it has no way to know
who really is trained and who isn't.  I learned from my work with the
government that one way to facilitate change is to allow disaster to
happen.  It's a shame, but maybe that's what it takes to "force"
National to fix or replace ScoutNET with a user-friendly online database
employing varying degrees of accessibility depending on a person's position.

YiS,

Ron Parks
District Training Chair
Victory District

Jamie Niss Dunn wrote:
>
>
>
> . . . with training records. The following (long) quote is from a BSA
> employee posted to the Innovation Engine:
>
> "We should be able to run training reports for all volunteers for a
> specific unit or district. It should list the leaders, their position,
> what training they have taken with the dates and then what training
> they need to become a trained leader. We have volunteers come in to
> our office on a weekly basis looking for this information and we are
> unable to give them useful reports. We either have to spend time
> printing person profiles for the whole unit (because this is the only
> way to get training with dates) or we try and run a Training Complete
> and a Training Not Complete reports. Trying to get those reports are
> very difficult to obtain. They either take hours to run or time out
> and you need to go back and request the same reports again and again,
> until they finally work. Who has the time for that, I know we don’t at
> our council. If you are lucky to get the reports they are not useful.
> They only list codes with no dates. The volunteer has no need to know
> all the codes our system uses and if no dates are listed what good are
> they to the volunteers anyway.
> And, why doesn’t training have expiration dates? For example; we have
> a Scout Master that registered 10 years ago took all the training and
> was conceder trained back then. He has not been a leader for the last
> 8 years and then once again is called to be a Scout Master, he still
> shows20as trained. Why? I know training has changed in the last 10
> years. Another reason we should have expiration dates; we have people
> that show trained on the roster so you go and look at what training
> they have taken, now where does it show under the training tab any of
> the training required to be trained for that position but it stills
> shows them trained and no way to remove it.
> Youth Protection should be required to be conceder trained? The tour
> permit requires leaders to have taken Youth Protection in the last two
> years; if it is required ever two years then it should expire
> automatically two years from the date taken and then send them a
> reminder to take it again if they still are a registered leader. It
> would be nice too if once you entered a new leader in the system that
> it generated a letter or e-mail (if entered) thanking and telling them
> the importance of being a trained leader and how to obtain such
> training’s. The system sends a thank you letter to all new Scout
> Parents, why can’t we do the same for registered leaders?
> We put so much information in to ScoutNET but we have such a hard time
> getting it out, I have never seen a data base program with so little
> options for custom reports. It is so frustrating for us to have to
> tell the professionals no sorry we can’t do that or pull so many
> different reports and spend the time combining them in to what they
> want. I honestly don’t think our council uses one report straight out
> of the sy
> stem. It is even more frustrating when you go to the training provided
> by the region and they tell you that we are not important enough to
> listen too. They only want to listen to the Scout Executive. When you
> go to these trainings it is a great opportunity for them to take back
> to National on how to improve the system from the people that work in
> it every day. Not be told to play Solitaire when the system is slow.
> (And yes that is exactly what they told us)."
>
> ______________
>
> I gleaned a piece of information from the above. A "Person Profile"
> will generate info on a specific leader and show all of the trainings
> that person has recorded WITH dates of training. It is apparently a
> laborious report to generate, but does exist.  Difficult but not
> impossible to obtain the info apparently.
>
> YiS,
>
> Jamie Niss Dunn
> Pack Trainer, Pack 512
> Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
> Troop Committee, Troop 509
> Ham Lake, MN
> Cub Scout Training Coordinator
> Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
> Three Rivers District
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>