Speaking only for myself, I have a problem advertising a course as X and
then deleting material that's part of the official syllabus. However, I have
the same concern Rick Seymour's Council Training Committee apparently has,
which is that it will be hard to get volunteers to attend two Saturdays or a
Friday night to Sunday afternoon (2:30) session.
I haven't sat down with the syllabus and reviewed it in depth, but I'm
thinking of recommending something along the following lines to our District
Training Chair:
--Offer it after we've offered the new basic course for all leaders
--Invite adult leaders and Venturing youths attending with two-deep
leadership from their crews
--Have a nighttime planning session before the campout. As part of this, put
on the patrol method explanation, flag ceremony training, campsite
selection, and Leave No Trace. If you're efficient, I think this could be
done from 7:00 to 9:30. A cracker barrel could be combined with patrol
planning for the campout in terms of equipment needs and menu/duty roster
planning if  (I can't remember if the patrols plan their own menus for
Saturday night of the campout.) I think it will be much easier to get
volunteers to a three-hour night session than to an extra night of camping.
--The weekend campout includes a two-hour individual coaching session after
supper. I think it would be possible to use this time for the Sunday morning
hour and a quarter "Packing and Hiking Techniques" session. This would still
leave 45 minutes of "extra" time Saturday night for coaching, as well as
time at or after cracker barrel.
--If Packing and Hiking are presented on Saturday, you could possibly move
closing time up to 1:15. Move up breakfast a bit, and don't dawdle with the
closing ceremony, and you might be able to get folks out of camp by 1:00
without shortchanging them. I think the learning receptiveness curve will
take a plunge the closer you get to noon on Sunday.

Vince Scanio
San Marcos, Texas

What is this position? My council has yet to "get" to the Cub Scout portion
of the new program. They are still "exposing" the Boy Scout portions.

I need to know because the new "train the trainer" (which is now called
something different) class is coming up.

Thanks in advance.

Paula Berghauser, Cub Program Chair, Frontie District, GCC, Cleveland OH

Rick, as both an SA and Training Staff Instructor I've learned that the
Campfire Program is a key element of the outdoor adventure that young Scouts
seek. My fondest memories of youth membership were the great camp / council
fires at the end of a camping trip. I see it in the kids today as well, as I
also run activities for my Council. {One hat, many brims. I just turn it a
little for each job ;-)} A good campfire makes the trip. Just ask a Scout.
Being able to plan a program that revolves around the rise and fall of the
flames is just as important as any advancement activities of an outdoor
program.
The Cracker-barrel will occur naturally between the leaders after the kids
are sleeping or in their tents on their way to sleep, Individual coaching is
something that comes from on the job experience, and will be different with
every boy. The inter-faith worship can be covered elsewhere.

I am looking forward myself to doing the new Outdoor Leader Skills course
this fall here in Brooklyn. We are having a training development session end
of this month at which we are introducing all the new syllabi to our
Trainers.

So, My thoughts are; Do not cut the Campfire Program portion. It is the
culmination of all that is a good camping trip for the boys, and that IS who
do this thing for!


James Gallo
Brooklyn, NY

On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:31:33 -0500, Vincent Scanio wrote:

>Speaking only for myself, I have a problem advertising a course as X and
>then deleting material that's part of the official syllabus. However, I have
>the same concern Rick Seymour's Council Training Committee apparently has,
>which is that it will be hard to get volunteers to attend two Saturdays or a
>Friday night to Sunday afternoon (2:30) session.

I am directing the Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills for our district this
fall and our training chair (my wife) wanted to modify the course
structure to eliminate the Sunday part of the course.  The arguments
against this were two fold:  1) we should at least try it by the book
once before we start modifying it;  2) this new course layout is going
to be less stressful for the participants than our old SMF course (one
of the main complaints for past SMF courses was that we "stuffed too
much into to short a time").

Our old SMF was handled as a "First Troop Meeting" that ran from about
6:30 - 9:00pm where we announced patrol placement and covered a couple
of classroom topics.  A "Patrol Meeting" where the patrol got together
(location, time, place and length determined by the patrol) to do their
patrol planning (song, yell, menu, etc).  Whatever preparation the
patrols needed (purchase of food, craft supplies, flag building, etc.
also had to be taken care of by the patrols on their own time).  And
then a weekend course (Friday from 6:30 - Sunday about 2:00).  Some
patrols (or parts of patrols) spent HOURS between the first troop
meeting and the weekend while others spent no time....

The new course structure will rearrange the same stuff into three
separate courses that the staff will have more involvement with: 1) NLE
for an hour and a half (similar in length to our "First Troop Meeting";
2) scoutmaster split for 7 hours (or about that); and then the 3 day
weekend Outdoor Leader Skills (same as the SMF weekend).  By moving the
"classroom" stuff from SMF to #1 and #2 you end up with a weekend
course that is primarily non-classroom (or the fun stuff as most folks
call it).  The old "Patrol Meeting" will be handled during Friday Night
and Saturday morning and the patrol prep will be next to nothing.  The
staff will have to pick up some of the slack (food purchase, menu
planning, etc) but the weekend course should be more relaxed and the
patrols won't have ANY pre-course purchasing or plaining to do - simply
show up and have a good time.

This will also eliminate the problem we have had where a participant
signs up for the course, misses the "Troop Meeting" and then shows up
for the weekend - he missed part of the course but still expects to be
able to attend the weekend and be trained.  Now he either shows up or
he doesn't and we don't have to worry about it.

I think this is a wonderful, low stress way to get the info across!  It
would seem to me to be MUCH easier to promote multiple separate short
courses than a course that has 3 (or more) parts spread over a month
where every part MUST be attended to complete the course.  It should be
especially easy to promote the Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills part
since it is "Fun in the outdoors"!  I may even use that on my flyer:

   Intro To Outdoor Leader Skills
      (or Fun In The Outdoors)

sounds like a good title to me!

Wendell Brown
Scouting The Net -- http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
A Mini-Yahoo for the scouting community.

Tuocs District of Occonneechee Council in NC has a good set of forms at
http://www.gwd.org/resources/forms/  including a Scouting Resume at
http://www.gwd.org/resources/forms/ScouterResume.pdf , which should be a
good start point for training or other folks.

	 The council web site also has a nice individual training inventory form
at http://www.occoneechee.org/Training/AdultTrainingRecordForm.PDF , or
go to their web site, http://www.occoneechee.org/ and click on "Adult
Training"

	 All in all a nice set of sites, although I am a bit prejudices as I
(re)started my (adult) Scouting career there in 1977.

	 Dave

	 To reply, remove the word, "nospam" from my return address, or click on
the mailto: address below

        Dave Loomis                    mailto:dloomis@...
        164 Tuttle Lane                  (603) 431 5342
        Greenland, NH 03840
   Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam
possit materiari?

--- In scouter_t@y..., bnelson45@h... wrote:
> Are your councils making BALOO training required for tour permits
> approval?
>
> YiS,
> Bill
For some reason I stopped getting stuff from my groups,
anyhow, chiming in late ....
Patriots Path Council (NJ) has advertised, since before the
sylabus was made available, that the training will be required
for a tour permit (for camping) beginning March 2002.

That being said, we ran our second course on June 9th.  Our
attendance went up from 4 to 7 (I personally e-mailed the people
on my district RT list), however our staff went from 6/7 to 2.
It worked OK but I would have liked to have known beforehand
which parts of the sylabus I had to take over.  I am familar
with the whole sylabus but my prep was for planning, and hikes
and games.  Third course in September.

My $0.02
Pete Mullaney

--- In scouter_t@y..., "Wendell Brown" <wbrown@a...> wrote:

> I am directing the Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills for our district
> thisfall and our training chair (my wife) wanted to modify the
> course structure to eliminate the Sunday part of the course.  The
> arguments against this were two fold:  1) we should at least try it
> by the book once before we start modifying it;  2) this new course
> layout is going to be less stressful for the participants than our
> old SMF course (one of the main complaints for past SMF courses was
> that we "stuffed too much into to short a time").

Offering training programs that do not involve activites on the
sabbath should be on the priority list for any district training
committee.  It just seems to contradict the idea that a scout is
reverent to be out playing camp games and holding classes on field
skills on a day set aside for worship.  That means that the district
committee must be sensitive to the needs of Islamic scouters
(Friday), Jewish and Seventh-Day Adventist leaders (Saturday), as
well as sabbath-observant Christian scouters (Sunday).

I realize that this seems to be a burden.  However, population
demographics suggest that any given district will only have to deal
with at most two variations.  In some parts of the country, you'll
only have to deal with one.  But, it is important to have that
respect for the beliefs and standards of our fellow leaders.

James Francisco
Program Chairman, Klahaya District
Mt. Baker Council

--- In scouter_t@y..., Dave Loomis <dloomis@n...> wrote:

>
> The program must run on a WINTEL machine and should also run on a
> Mac.

Not asking for much are we?  This pretty much constrains the common
development platform to Filemaker Pro.  Are there enough Mac users
out there to justify a multi-platform development effort.

James Francisco

>> The program must run on a WINTEL machine and should also run on a
>> Mac.
>
> Not asking for much are we?  This pretty much constrains the common
> development platform to Filemaker Pro.  Are there enough Mac users
> out there to justify a multi-platform development effort.

Yes, there are Mac users out there. I'm typing this on a keyboard/monitor
connected through a switch to a PowerBook G4 , Windows 2000 workstation, and
Linux and Solaris servers. At home I have Windows, Linux and Unix boxes.

Why stop with Mac compatibility? There are Linux and BSD users out there,
too. How about MySQL, which runs on all the UNIX flavors, plus Mac, Windows,
BSD, Solaris, etc. It uses a standardized SQL language, is open source
(read: FREE when used for non-commercial purposes) and well supported by the
community. Why force users to purchase FileMaker, Access, Oracle, SQL
Server, etc., to run your application when you can zip/tar/stuff your
application along with the typical MySQL distributions? Provided you ran
this as a grassroots effort, the terms of the GNU public license would allow
you to write a complete application and distribute it free of charge.

In fact, many ISP already support MySQL for their account holders,
especially business accounts. I would assume that many district and council
web pages fall under this description, and could host the database with
password protection, allowing the training chairs to maintain the records.
Where a district or council doesn't yet have this access, an individual
could manage the information and later export it to the district/council
once they emerge from the dark ages. <grin>

This circumvents the need for individuals to know a programming language,
purchase software, etc. and still be able to take advantage of an
application.

Sounds like a ticket item! If anyone on the list is interested in
collaborating on such a project, let me know. I design databases for a
living. In fact, I've already designed one to track training within our
district, and could convert it to MySQL without too much difficulty. I'm
sure there's a web developer or two out there that could handle creating a
web-based front end to allow manipulation of the database.

What we would need to know are the formats that ScoutNet2000 expects, and
what functionality people want from such an offering. I think someone has
already addressed the functionality issue. Anyone intimate with
ScoutNet2000?
--
Sean Scott
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Cub Scout Training Chairman
Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District

WM-45-2-00 - "I used to be a Buffalo..."

I know that I have many in our District that would enjoy a duel platform
system.

YiS
Vernon
On 6/19/01 1:33 PMJames Francisco (res076dz@...) eloquently inscribed:

> --- In scouter_t@y..., Dave Loomis <dloomis@n...> wrote:
>
>>
>> The program must run on a WINTEL machine and should also run on a
>> Mac.
>
> Not asking for much are we?  This pretty much constrains the common
> development platform to Filemaker Pro.  Are there enough Mac users
> out there to justify a multi-platform development effort.
>
> James Francisco
>
>
>
> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>
> Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

My wife and I would be interested in such a project...
She is the district training chair, and like you, a DB professional,
and is amazed at the lack of training records locally.

We are working on the table definitions and would be interested in
seeing what has worked for others.

In going for a generic solution... How about a cross platform front
end (Java, Perl, any others?) and use the JDBC/ODBC interfaces?  That
way you could jack almost any SQL type DBM into the backend and run.
Though MySQL is a good place to start - the price is right and it runs
on almost any platform.

Peter Sanders
Cubmaster, Pack 69, Pine Island MN.


--- In scouter_t@y..., Sean Scott <sscott@e...> wrote:

> Sounds like a ticket item! If anyone on the list is interested in
> collaborating on such a project, let me know. I design databases for
a
> living. In fact, I've already designed one to track training within
our
> district, and could convert it to MySQL without too much difficulty.
I'm
> sure there's a web developer or two out there that could handle
creating a
> web-based front end to allow manipulation of the database.
>
> What we would need to know are the formats that ScoutNet2000
expects, and
> what functionality people want from such an offering. I think
someone has
> already addressed the functionality issue. Anyone intimate with
> ScoutNet2000?
> --
> Sean Scott

PMJI, but this nuts and bolts discussion on tracking training leads me to
think that while y'all are doing this grand design why not include an input
device such as a bar code reader or magnetic stripe reader for quickly
recording registration information (from a locally produced card since
national's is still akin to the technology that produced my first
membership card in 1960).

Wait, wait, why not an infrared port and registration information could be
beamed from PDAs.

Don't get me wrong, but this front-end, back-end, language discussion is
going over  my head.  I recognize the problem and was affected by it when I
lost one of my training cards and had to take the course over.  In reality,
unless course information is as easily inputted as hot syncing my PDA, the
data is going to languish on someone's desk till it is considered too old
for any good.

Yours in Scouting,

Hank Voegtle
Eagle-Class of '68
I used to be a Fox . . . (SR-Y2K-X2)
Cubmaster, Pack 456, North Trail District, Circle Ten Council
Member, North Trail District Membership Committee


At 08:27 PM 6/19/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>My wife and I would be interested in such a project...
>She is the district training chair, and like you, a DB professional,
>and is amazed at the lack of training records locally.
>
>We are working on the table definitions and would be interested in
>seeing what has worked for others.
>
>In going for a generic solution... How about a cross platform front
>end (Java, Perl, any others?) and use the JDBC/ODBC interfaces?  That
>way you could jack almost any SQL type DBM into the backend and run.
>Though MySQL is a good place to start - the price is right and it runs
>on almost any platform.
>
>Peter Sanders
>Cubmaster, Pack 69, Pine Island MN.
>
>
>--- In scouter_t@y..., Sean Scott <sscott@e...> wrote:
>
> > Sounds like a ticket item! If anyone on the list is interested in
> > collaborating on such a project, let me know. I design databases for
>a
> > living. In fact, I've already designed one to track training within
>our
> > district, and could convert it to MySQL without too much difficulty.
>I'm
> > sure there's a web developer or two out there that could handle
>creating a
> > web-based front end to allow manipulation of the database.
> >
> > What we would need to know are the formats that ScoutNet2000
>expects, and
> > what functionality people want from such an offering. I think
>someone has
> > already addressed the functionality issue. Anyone intimate with
> > ScoutNet2000?
> > --
> > Sean Scott
>
>
>
>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
>   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
>
>Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Sincerely,

Henry J. Voegtle

Hank wrote: In reality, unless course information is as easily inputted as
hot syncing my PDA, the data is going to languish on someone's desk till it
is considered too old for any good.


Our council VP of training told the training chairs that we needed to keep
our own records because they had no idea who had had what training when
because they didn't know where the records were, assuming they even existed.
They think all the old paperwork was tossed when someone heard about
ScoutNet2000 and thought that it would "just know" on its own.

Be it ScoutNet2000, a purchased product, a developed tool or a file drawer,
an action needs to take place to store the information. I trust the folks in
my district to responsibly undertake that action before I do the staff at
council.

Training attendance rosters on their own are useless. The problem is
extracting useful information from them. I think many of us would rather
have them in a database or spreadsheet where we can manipulate them and see,
quickly, what units have no training, who needs to update YPT, which units
qualify for 100% trained ribbons, who isn't going to RT, etc. If we can
achieve that, and make a tool that others without programming and database
background can use, too, I think we've done something worthwhile. Once
that's done, using the tool to keep records up to date becomes a simple
matter of motivation.

--
Sean Scott
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Cub Scout Training Chairman
Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District

WM-45-2-00 - "I used to be a Buffalo..."

No offense to Hank, Scott, Peter and whom ever else
has been discussing the database stuff, but umm, well,
gollygeewilikers, if nothing else, I just got a
refresher in how our brand new den leaders must feel
at their first gathering as the seasoned ones kick
around discussions of badges, arrowpoints, pins,
advancement books, G2SS, "two deep", Safety Afloat,
Climb On, COPE and various other tidbits of what seems
to the seasoned as just every day conversation.

Kevin Pate
Norman, OK
who's most common computer questions begin with "I put
the pointy thingy on the picture thingy and tapped my
finger twice but nothing happened.  I guess I broke
something again" 8^)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/

The Cub Leader Specific Training manual refers to a Cub Leader Book with
a chapter #19 on Tigers, #24 on program planning and #32 and #33 on the
outdoor program. The only item number listed in Trainer Resources is
33221, the same as my copy which is several years old and only has 18
chapters. My Scout Shop doesn't know anything about it. Has anyone out
there seen one? Do you know if they are generally available yet and if
so, from where?

Ruanne
Gateway District
Denver Area Council
________________________________________________________________
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--- In scouter_t@y..., Sean Scott <sscott@e...> wrote:
> Why stop with Mac compatibility? There are Linux and BSD users out
> there, too. How about MySQL, which runs on all the UNIX flavors,
> plus Mac, Windows, BSD, Solaris, etc. It uses a standardized SQL
> language,

Reasonable enough.  The one big downside is the lack of support for
stored procedures.

> is open source(read: FREE when used for non-commercial purposes)

Alternative reading, when you pay nothing, you get exactly what you
pay for. ;)

> and well supported by the community. Why force users to purchase
> FileMaker, Access, Oracle, SQL Server, etc., to run your
> application when you can zip/tar/stuff your application along with
> the typical MySQL distributions?

Using the example of an Access DB why does anyone other than the
developer have to have a copy?  As long as the final developer has a
copy of Office Developer they have a royalty-free distribution
license that allows them to create an application that does not
require Access to be installed on the target computer.

> Provided you ran this as a grassroots effort, the terms of the GNU
> public license would allow you to write a complete application and
> distribute it free of charge.

That's no different from any other royalty-free distribution license.

>
> In fact, many ISP already support MySQL for their account holders,
> especially business accounts. I would assume that many district and
> council web pages fall under this description, and could host the
> database with password protection, allowing the training chairs to
> maintain the records. Where a district or council doesn't yet have
> this access, an individual could manage the information and later
> export it to the district/council once they emerge from the dark
> ages. <grin>
>
NO, no, no! Do not trust this personal data to the "security" of some
ISP.  Every council has servers.  Every council should have dial-up
access capability to their servers as part of the Scoutnet 2000
network infrastructure.  As a security measure, all councils should
be using caller-id authentication or callback authentication on their
dial-up server.

> This circumvents the need for individuals to know a programming
> language, purchase software, etc. and still be able to take
> advantage of an application.

Someone needs to know SQL, PERL, VBA or some programming language to
make it work.  But, with a server-hosted system, only the development
team needs to have access to any tools.  As I've mentioned before,
the user interface should be clean, simple, and self-explanatory.  It
should be simple enough that I could give my eleven-year old scout a
list of data to enter and he could do it.

James Francisco
Prgram Chairman, Klahaya District
Mt. Baker Council

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ruanne E Crumpley" <robnru@...>


> The Cub Leader Specific Training manual refers to a Cub Leader Book with
> a chapter #19 on Tigers, #24 on program planning and #32 and #33 on the
> outdoor program. The only item number listed in Trainer Resources is
> 33221, the same as my copy which is several years old and only has 18
> chapters. My Scout Shop doesn't know anything about it. Has anyone out
> there seen one? Do you know if they are generally available yet and if
> so, from where?

There is a new Cub Scout Leader Book coming out late in the summer.  It has
a white/gray cover with a wolf head. The number I have for it is 33221B.

--------
Leslie Herman
http://powwow-online.com
CubBobwhite (EC-CS-19)
ScoutBuffalo (C-33-98)
Council Training Chairman
Blue Water Council - Port Huron, Michigan

Hey, James, I didn't even include the UNIX/LINUX folks.  Cut me some
slack.  Please.

	 Dave

James Francisco wrote:
>
> --- In scouter_t@y..., Dave Loomis <dloomis@n...> wrote:
>
> >
> > The program must run on a WINTEL machine and should also run on a
> > Mac.
>
> Not asking for much are we?  This pretty much constrains the common
> development platform to Filemaker Pro.  Are there enough Mac users
> out there to justify a multi-platform development effort.
>
> James Francisco
>

	 To reply, remove the word, "nospam" from my return address, or click on
the mailto: address below

        Dave Loomis                    mailto:dloomis@...
        164 Tuttle Lane                  (603) 431 5342
        Greenland, NH 03840
   Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam
possit materiari?

Hi groups:
Is anyone from the list going to be at Philmont July 15-21, specifically at
the session on the new training?  Email me off the list if you are.

Would love to meet up with you.

YIS,
Laura Lyster
fox704@...
EC-CS-19 buffalo, C-30L-97 fox, C-CS-7 Eagle Den Counselor
Pathfinder District Cub Training Chair
Assistant Council Comm'r of Roundtable

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Sean Scott wrote:  . . .which units qualify for 100% trained ribbons. .
.

Hey Sean -

Tell me about this one!  Are these flag streamers?  Do they have the
year printed on them?  Where do you get the ribbons?  How do you
finance?  Any other questions I forgot?

Thanks,

Judy Yeager

A recent thread on the AOL BSA-board included the following reference.
====
As much as I wish a program [for PL training] like this existed (like the
former JLOW), I seriously doubt that whatever syllabus you might locate would
be a BSA
issued item.  I felt that the JLOW program filled a need (JLOW = Junior
Leader
Orientation Workshop).  There is no district training for junior leaders.
====
I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about JLOW. The originator of the
message on AOL was not able to provide much detail.

Thanks
Tom Buesing

At 00:10 -0400 on 6/20/01, Dave Loomis spoke about Re: [Scouter_T]
Re: Tracking Individual Training thusly:

> Hey, James, I didn't even include the UNIX/LINUX folks.  Cut me some
>slack.  Please.
>
><snip>
>  > Not asking for much are we?  This pretty much constrains the common
>>  development platform to Filemaker Pro.  Are there enough Mac users
>  > out there to justify a multi-platform development effort.

Well, James, last I heard there were about 26,000,000 Mac users, and
about 10% of current sales. The latest Mac operating system has Unix
roots and is attracting a lot of interest from tech types. You ain't
seen nothin' yet .. <G> Give me access to 26,000,000 customers
anytime.
--

Hey L'ers

     I'm going to Philmont the week of Aug 11-18.  I'll be taking the
Re-Engineering Scout Training.  Is there anyone on the list that is going to
the same course as I?  If so email me off list so we can get to know each
other before we get there that week.

YiS,

Ron Tramm
I usta be a beaver C-24-97 ... and a good ole staffer too C-7-00
Brotherhood member Mikano Lodge #231
Southwest District BS Training Chair
Milwaukee County Council

One of the reasons JLOW was discontinued out here was that it was
felt troop junior leadership training at this level should be done in
the troop.  Different Scoutmasters have different styles and we had a
number of instances where a Scout would go to JLOW only to return
home to find that his troop did not do Scouting that way.
Confrontations would then arise between the Scoutmaster and the
junior leadership, which was not the intent of JLOW.  So we moved
this 'basic training' class down to the troop level.

YiS,
Bill Nelson

Judy asked: Tell me about this one!  Are these flag streamers?  Do they have
the year printed on them?  Where do you get the ribbons?  How do you
finance?  Any other questions I forgot?

This is a new thing we're doing this year. They are flag streamers (like a
Quality Unit Award) and have the year on them. My DE has a source for these,
which I believe is a local trophy shop. We had similar ribbons printed for
100% FOS units.

Training incentives in our district this year include the flag streamer for
units with 100% of uniformed leaders (CM, CA, den leaders and assistants)
being trained and attending at least 1 RT. We're giving out Fast Start
videos to every unit that registers a Pack Trainer and has them attend a
Trainer Development Conference.

As far as financing, some is from FOS, and some is profit from district
events like our camporee or day camp. Folks in our district don't seem to
mind paying late fees, and it's not unusual for us to be at 15 boys two
weeks before day camp and have 115 five days later!
--
Sean Scott
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Cub Scout Training Chairman
Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District

WM-45-2-00 - "I used to be a Buffalo..."

I use a MAC and do all of my database developing in FileMaker pro.

I agree, if you're going to create something, you should think about the
availability across platforms.  Not everyone uses a PC or MAC for that
matter.

In the company I work for we have MULTIPLE databases (much to my chagrin)
because the "PC people" find a GREAT program that reports to be cross
platform, but runs very very VERY slowly on the MAC (even on the G4's!).
We're in the process of combining everything into one compatible database
... what a headache.


Ida


>
> Hey, James, I didn't even include the UNIX/LINUX folks.  Cut me some
> slack.  Please.
>
> Dave
>
> James Francisco wrote:
>>
>> --- In scouter_t@y..., Dave Loomis <dloomis@n...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The program must run on a WINTEL machine and should also run on a
>>> Mac.
>>
>> Not asking for much are we?  This pretty much constrains the common
>> development platform to Filemaker Pro.  Are there enough Mac users
>> out there to justify a multi-platform development effort.
>>
>> James Francisco
>>

Hey Florida-Bobwhite,

Here in the National Capital Area Council, we hold quarterly
Roundtable Commissioner Meetings 3 times a year (Oct, Jan & Apr).  The
agenda normally contains: New Items at the Scout Shop; Discussions
about what is new in Scouting; Areas where our help is needed in
promoting upcoming training functions like Pow Wow, University of
Scouting or Program Launch; planning for upcoming Roundtbable
Commissioner Basic Training; other presentations that would be
beneficial to the group, such as the new Training Kits overview, or
Youth Protection, or Religious Awards.  I look at this session as
Quarterly Leadership Updates for RTCs.

Unlike your other respondent, we spread our Council meetings out
during the 1st & 3rd weeks of the month to avoid one person from
needing to be in multiple breakouts at the same time.

Have a great summer.

Yours in Scouting,
Ken Todd, Training Chairman
NE-CS-59 Beaver

PS - The flamingo you left is still getting around.  I would not be
surprised to see it at Camp Ross, Goshen SR this summer.



--- In scouter_t@y..., Peter J Murray <pjm@N...> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
>  Central Florida Council has decided that we should have a
bi-monthly
> meeting for all RT commissioners and staff held as a breakout with
the
> Council Commissioner's meeting. Has anyone done/contemplated such a
thing?
> Another Scouter from a neighboring district and I have been given
yet
> another hour a week to accomplish this, and not wanting to waste
this
> valuable extra time, I am looking to ya'll fer suggestions! Of
course, I
> have started an E-mail list (in the form of a .pst file) just as we
did for
> our new District reorganizing. This will enable me to share this
info with
> anyone else with Outlook and make updating it as simple as
downloading the
> file (pass protected) off of the net. We only have an hour, so we
are
> planning so far to have the first half hour combined as a staff
development
> time, and the second half in our own BSRT, CSRT, & VRT niches.
>
>  Sorry in advance if you get this twice, as I have cross-posted
this
> to Scouts-L as well!!!
>
>      "Fla-Bob" Pete Murray
>        "A good ol' Bobwhite too..." NECS 59
>          "A good ol' Eagle too... SR 394
>             Council & District Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner
>                 Hekawee District
>                    Central Florida Council

Rick,

I personally have a hard time signing a training card for a course,
especially when it required to earn the "Trained" patch, when you are
not following the BSA prescribed requirements as outlined in the
syllabus.

I would strongly recommend that you pick one of the 2 options outlined
in the book, and tell your professional advisor to verify their
information with the appropriate person at the National Office.

I have not seen the memo you mentioned, but there appears to be a
typographical error in it.  If they think the course should only run
1.5 days, maybe they can tell you what you can cut out of the
curriculum and still certify that the leaders have received adequate
training for the youth in their units.

I would not cut any of the items you mentioned.  You can use the
campfire and cracker-barrel times for training.  Cutting out the
worship service, to me, violates our Duty to God.  Plus, I do not think
you do not want your leaders attending Wood Badge and finding out that
they got short changed in their training.  What will they think of your
course.

As for my District, we have decided to offer OLS as a 2 Saturday course
the first time.  I personally think it will be harder to get leaders
out 2 Saturdays in a row, but we will see how it works.  As for the
Friday-Sunday option, I don't think it will be any harder than getting
them out for SMF III now.  Most Troop campouts run Friday-Sunday, so
this will be about the same.

I hope you have a lot of commitment from you trainers.  We have decided
to wait until 2002 for OLS because we just don't have enough room on
our calendars with half of my Training Committee working at the Jamo,
and all of the Scouting events in September & October to feel we can
get all of the supplies together and practice for an Oct. OLS course.
I would like to hear how yours comes out.

Yours in Scouting,
Ken Todd, Training Chairman
NE-CS-59 Beaver


--- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Message: 1
    Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:31:06 -0400
    From: "Rick Seymour" <Rick@...>
Subject: Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills

[clip] ...but some bureaucrat in Irving TX recently circulated a couple
memos summarizing the new training scheme in which he mistakenly lists
this course as running a day and a half.

My Council's Training Committee is using this memo as a pretext to cut
the official course outline down to a day and a half.  As I understand
it, their reasoning is that it will be very difficult to get
participants out for a course that runs as long as designed.[clip]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

If you want a look at the cover of the new Tiger Cub Handbook and new
Cub Scout Leader Book, and Tiger Den Leader Patch, go to the BSA Web
Site and go through the Fast Start material for Tiger Den Leaders.

Yours in Scouting,
Ken

--- In scouter_t@y..., "CubBobwhite" <bsa@a...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> There is a new Cub Scout Leader Book coming out late in the summer.
It has
> a white/gray cover with a wolf head. The number I have for it is
33221B.

We taught this course this last spring.  I would not cut anything.  We
simply told the council it was a mistake on the memo.  Our council does not
interfere with training as long as you are following the syllabus.
Everything in the new syllabus is basic and is needed.  If you start cutting
parts out, these will be the same parts the new leaders will cut from their
program with the kids.
     I have to also say that this syllabus is the most fun for a training
team.  We ran the course from Friday night to Sunday afternoon.  This gives
you a little flexibility with the time schedule.  We were able to give more
time to some subjects like LNT without taking away from other subjects.
The participants of the course walked away confident with their outdoor
skills unlike SMF where they leave with a hundred questions still.  We also
created a book of handouts before the course that we gave them when they
checked in.  Everyone said they really liked it because it gave them
something to reference to later.   We had several new Webelos leaders take
the course and they said it helped them see better what they are preparing
their kids for.
     We have already scheduled this course 2 more times for the upcoming year
and we have people begging to be part of the training team for it.  The
participants went away raving about this new course.


Beth Reiller
Training Team (wife to the Training Chairman)
Flint River Council


> [clip] ...but some bureaucrat in Irving TX recently circulated a couple
> memos summarizing the new training scheme in which he mistakenly lists
> this course as running a day and a half.
>
> My Council's Training Committee is using this memo as a pretext to cut
> the official course outline down to a day and a half.  As I understand
> it, their reasoning is that it will be very difficult to get
> participants out for a course that runs as long as designed.[clip]
>
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