Thanks Gordon: I appreciate you help
The Clarke Family went from Scotland to Armagh northern Ireland in the Mid
1700's, Then they went from Armagh northern Ireland to Victoria County in
Ontario Canada in 1833

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Gordon Crooks@... <
gordoncrooks@...> wrote:

>
>
> Allen: I can't give you a postive answer to your question, but looking at
> your surnames they are to be found in a wide area if N. Ireland, so I would
> be inclined to think they came from separate areas in Scotland, they are
> fairly common Scottish names too which means they might have come from
> scattered areas.
>
> Gordon Crooks
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Allen Clark
> To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com <scots-origins%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: Alexander / Black/Clark/Weir
>
> Good Afternoon
> My name is Allen Clark. I was wondering if there4 was one area in Scottkand
> Where the Clark Family settled
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:44 PM, madeline1960edin <
> madeline1960edin@... <madeline1960edin%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi, I have not found any connection, sorry.
> >
> > Madeline
> >
> > --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
<scots-origins%40yahoogroups.com><scots-origins%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > christine paton <christinelouiseuk@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a Jane Bingham CLARK born 1884 Dalry, parents
> > > John CLARK and Margaret WEIR.
> > >
> > > Any connection?
> > >
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.63/2500 - Release Date: 11/13/09
> 07:54:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone have a Peter Lyle Campbell in their records?        Marianne
Campbell Shannon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Sheryl,
Saw your request while browsing "Robert Scobie"
My name is John Alexander Scobie and living in Perth, West Australia.
I am a direct descendant of the Robert Scobie you mention.
We have been told he and his family went to NZ on the ship "Robert Henderson" in
1870 but passenger lists I have found have no mention of Scobies on board.  I am
trying to find out which ship they did go on.
A younger member of our tree has compiled a lot of info on this family and I
have a copy of the book she compiled.
I am also trying to find out as much as I can, hopefully we can help each other.
I am using "Family Tree Maker ver 9"
At the moment I am at sea using the ships computer but will be home
about the 4th of December for a few weeks.
My email address is jsco8342@...
Bye for now.
Regards
John Scobie.

--- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, "nz_bris" <apiatash@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> I am searching for any information regarding Robert Scobie who married
> Jessie Strachan Pollock at the High Church in Paisley on 28 Nov 1865.
>
> They had 12 children, 3 who were born in the area, of these, 2 were
> possibly buried at sea as they emigrated to New Zealand in 1870.  The
> daughter who survived the journey was named Marion Robertson Pollock
> Scobie and she was born in Rothesay, Bute on 1 Dec 1869.
>
> At the time of Robert's marriage to Jessie, he was listed as a
> Draper's Salesman and his parents were William and Marjory nee
> Pollock, William was listed as a Shawl weaver.  Jessie's parents were
> Alexander Pollock, Grocer, deceased and Elizabeth Pollock, nee Murdoch.
>
> I have a copy of what would be known today as a business card from a
> shop at 45 High Street, Renfrew, Robert Scobie & Co, General Drapers,
> Milliners & Clothiers.
>
> If anyone has any knowledge of this family, I would appreciate any
> assistance.
>
> Regards
>
> Sheryl
>

There was indeed a longstanding tradition in Scotland of naming wains after
their grandparents.....

First son after the paternal grandfather
Second son after the maternal grandfather
Third son after the parent

First daughter after the maternal grandmother
Second daughter after the paternal grandmother
Third daughter after the mother.

Note that in some parts of Scotland the paternal/maternal
relationship was reversed in terms of the first two sons and daughters.

After the first three wains of whatever sex, the eldest siblings
of the parents tended to be used.

But I have never ever yet come across an example of the suggested naming pattern
involving greatgrandparents and/or uncles/aunts and greatuncles/aunts that cover
8 sons and 8 daughters !!

Such a pattern, I'd suggest, is a pure myth !

If anyone out there can provide me with such an example, backed up by clear
documentary evidence in the Scottish records, I'll eat whatever hat that they
care to nominate.

Never mind that I'd dearly like to use such an example in my next appropriate
lecture !! <g>

Yes, it's far from uncommon to find the first 3 sons' and 3 daughters' given
names matching the above pattern, but it's equally common to find this pattern
being 'interfered' with by infant deaths, - sometimes the name was 'recycled',
sometimes not.

And equally common to find that the names of 4th and subsequent sons and
daughters, while eldest siblings of the parents often come into the situation,
cannot, in my experience be shown reliably to follow any pattern other than that
of given names that are common in the family tree.  Equally common, however, my
experience is that the given names of fourth and subsequent wains can produce
surprises ! <g>

And sometimes other family events, such as the death of an aged relative led to
a deviation from the above 'ideal' pattern.


As regards family surnames used as middle names, the aristocracy apart, this was
quite uncommon prior to the early decades of the 1800s.

Thereafter, the practice became widespread, but, in my experience there was no
pattern, other than that, -

... the first such surname to be used was the mother's maiden name, but this was
often repeated for many wains ....

... if the mother's maiden surname wasn't repeated, then the father's mother's
maiden name came into play, thereafter maiden surnames in previous generations,
- which can obviously be extremely valuable research clues.

... but watch out for the use of such middle names where there is absolutely no
family connection, - from wide experience, there are many such reasons !!

Orraverybest

David

David W Webster  FSA Scot

email:   davidwwebster@...
www:     www.rossgenealogy.co.uk

--- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Crooks@..." <gordoncrooks@...>
wrote:
>
> Elaine: Well I don't have it written down as such but with experience with my
own line and others that i have reseached, the object of the Scottish nameing is
to honor past living and dead relatives. Example first son is almost always
named after the father, if he has a middle name it is frequently his mothers
maiden surname. Daughters aee named after the mother, grandmothers, and aunts,
sons follow this procedure too. Here is an example of my settler whose name was
John, first son was named John, 2nd son was named James, both sons named one of
their sons John, the daughter of the settler named her first born John . They
are reffered to in the family bible as: John, John Jr, John 2 and John 3. If you
think that is bad look at the Germans. I have 4 brothers who came from Germany
among my ancestors all four of them were named Johann, however they all had
different middle names and thats what they were called by.
>
>                                                                            
Gordon Crooks
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Elaine Rosenberg
>   To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 7:18 AM
>   Subject: [scots-origins] names
>
>
>     Hi,
>   I have been trying to work out family names in my husbands Scottish line. Is
there a pattern to naming children etc. as some of the names seem to have
surnames for middle names..Can you help me sort this out please?
>   Elaine
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>   Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.18/2437 - Release Date: 10/15/09
03:57:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Joan if you decide to use a genealogist to research your family, spend the
extra dollar/pound, and use a certified professional one, otherwise you
will  turn out to be the long lost gggggdaughter of Robert the Bruce, Willie
Wallace  or Bonnie Prince Tearloch/Chairlie. which considering we are a
population of 5.1  million we are all probably related at some point which ay
explain a number of  peculiarities.

Name Crooks:
John Crukis merchant and burgess of Irving  1635

John Cruix orCruiks in Glensheilds on record 1635

William Cruikis in Polwart 1665

Alexander Cruicks was retoured heir in lands in the  Barony of Monkland
1692. (sounds like fought in a revolt and lost the family  lands)

James Crukes of Carturk was retoured heir of  Alexander Craiks of Carturk
1698

Ramsey Crooks 1786 to 1859 Fur trader described by Black Hawk he  Indian
chief as "the best pale-face friend the red man ever ad," as born in  Greenock

Hope this helps a wee bit
Dave






I'm trying to obtain some general information on the origin of  the Crooks
name and family.

The few bits of family information I  have on my ggg grandfather, James
Crooks, indicate he came to this country  from Ireland and the surname was
possibly spelled Crookes. I've found  several family trees online that
indicate
he was born in Glamoris, Scotland,  but there is no source or documentation
for this information and none of the  trees indicate that he was born in
Ireland.

I did make contact with a  distant cousin who said she had visited Scotland
and we were descended from  the Stewart clan, but she couldn't or wouldn't
provide anything to support  this.

I seem to remember reading something online about a massive  migration of
people from Scotland to Ireland sometime in the 1700's, which  might
explain
why my family thinks James came from Ireland and others have  somehow
determined he was actually born in Scotland.

Can you provide  any information on migrations from Scotland to America, or
the British  colonies as they were back then, in the 1700's ? Would
immigrants have come  directly from Scotland or traveled to Ireland first
or could
it have been  either one ?

Any information you could provide would be greatly  appreciated.

Regards,
Joan Crooks
Jacksonville, Florida







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have Clark's in my family.  So far they seem to be from Fife and West Lothian.
The earliest I have is Michael Clark born in Ireland and he married Jane Nevins
(Navin) in Auchterderran, Fife, Scotland.  He died in  1890 in Bathgate, West
Lothian.  Dont't know if this will help you any.

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Allen Clark <allen.clark88@...> wrote:


From: Allen Clark <allen.clark88@...>
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: Alexander / Black/Clark/Weir
To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 3:24 PM


Good Afternoon
My name is Allen Clark. I was wondering if there4 was one area in Scottkand
Where the Clark Family settled

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:44 PM, madeline1960edin <
madeline1960edin@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi, I have not found any connection, sorry.
>
> Madeline
>
> --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com <scots-origins%40yahoogroups.com>,
> christine paton <christinelouiseuk@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have a Jane Bingham CLARK born 1884 Dalry, parents
> > John CLARK and Margaret WEIR.
> >
> > Any connection?
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------
This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that members
can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an email to
scots-origins@yahoogroups.com

To unsubscribe send a blank email to: scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joan: Contact me off line I can trace my line of Crooks back to Robert Croc
(Crooks in 1066, this Glamoris stuff is more fiction than fact. The Crooks
settled at Pasiley, Scotland. The fact that you are a Florida Crooks you might
be related to David Crooks born March 20, 1812 in Franklin Co., Pa., if so we
are kissing cousins. I also hold the Crooks bible.

                                              Gordon Crooks


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jec7725@...
   To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:41 PM
   Subject: [scots-origins] Crooks Family - Scottish Origins



   Hello !

   I'm trying to obtain some general information on the origin of the Crooks
   name and family.

   The few bits of family information I have on my ggg grandfather, James
   Crooks, indicate he came to this country from Ireland and the surname was
   possibly spelled Crookes. I've found several family trees online that indicate
   he was born in Glamoris, Scotland, but there is no source or documentation
   for this information and none of the trees indicate that he was born in
   Ireland.

   I did make contact with a distant cousin who said she had visited Scotland
   and we were descended from the Stewart clan, but she couldn't or wouldn't
   provide anything to support this.

   I seem to remember reading something online about a massive migration of
   people from Scotland to Ireland sometime in the 1700's, which might explain
   why my family thinks James came from Ireland and others have somehow
   determined he was actually born in Scotland.

   Can you provide any information on migrations from Scotland to America, or
   the British colonies as they were back then, in the 1700's ? Would
   immigrants have come directly from Scotland or traveled to Ireland first or
could
   it have been either one ?

   Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

   Regards,
   Joan Crooks
   Jacksonville, Florida

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.63/2500 - Release Date: 11/13/09
07:54:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, ScotHeritage@... wrote:
>
>
> If they were called Catherine in Skye I would think they may be  referred
> to as Catriona (accent \ over the "O") The Gaelic for Catherine.
> Dave

I use the spelling that's in the BDM registrations or on the OPRs. Apart from my
aunty and me, I believe all the Catherines regardless of spelling were called
Kate, Katy or Katie.
I might add that I prefer to be called by my full name, Catherine, but would
accept almost any abbreviation of my name except those three mainly because
Australia's notorious bushranger Ned Kelly had a sister, Kate. Kelly was my
surname before I married.  Just one of my pecularities, I guess. On the other
hand, my brother Neil was nicknamed "Ned" by his mates at high school and work
and it never bothered him.

Catherine

My grandmother's birth name was Mary Susie and when she got married the Marriage
Certificate states that her name is Pearl Henrietta. Her School records and her
high school diploma that I have also state that her name was Pearl. Family
members referred to her as Pearl, Etta, Henri, Henrietta and the 1930 census
states also that her name was Pearl. Imagine my confusion when I got the
original birth certificate and the name change certificate. I thought she had a
twin.
Rose
I am a Wife, Mother, and Grandmother and that follows Daughter, Sister, and
Spoiled Rotten Granddaughter.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Isn't that the problem with all naming systems? The same names come up. I was
"Bob's Bobby" and my brother was "little Adam" (as opposed to his uncle "Big
Adam"). There were three Helen's "Big Helen" (older), "Little Helen", and
"Ollie's Helen" (she married into the family).  We all knew who we were!



--- On Wed, 11/11/09, ScotHeritage@... <ScotHeritage@...> wrote:

From: ScotHeritage@... <ScotHeritage@...>
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: names
To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 12:14 PM







 











All the talk of naming patterns is very interesting, but it should be

remembered that first and family names mean/meant little or nothing in the

Highlands. It is not unusual to have, in a small village school, a large number

of children who shared the same names. We identified everyone by a nick

name.

Examples:

Willie Charger.... ran off when the rent man came.

Young Jock the Coo .... Knew everything to know about cattle

Rab the Coo...... Jock's younger brother

Old Jock the Coo... their father

Black Tierlach (Charlie) ... Just a mean SOB

Dave



In a message dated 11/11/2009 10:44:15 A.M. Central Standard Time,

rbsmithwrite@ yahoo.com writes:



One  more note on middle names. In my family middle names weren't used

until the  1800s. When they were, they were surnames that clearly identified the

  grandparent for whom the child was named. In my grandmother' One  more note

on middle names. In my family middle names weren't used until the  1800s.

When they were, they were surnames that clearly identified the  grandparent

for whom the child was named. In my grandmother' <WBR>s case she  was

"Elizabeth May Jamieson" and she was named for her maOne  more note on middle
names.

In my family middle names weren't used until the  1800s. When they were,

they were surnames that clearly identified the  grandparent for whom the child

was named. In my grandmother' <WBR>s case she  was "Elizabeth May Jamieson"

and she was named for her maternal grandmother  who was "Elizabeth May". The

same was true of her sisters ("Agnes Cochrane"  and "Flora McFee" all with

the surname "Jamieson"). The strength of this  family tradition is m



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ScotHeritage@... wrote:
>
> All the talk of naming patterns is very interesting, but it should be
> remembered that first and family names mean/meant little or nothing in the
> Highlands. It is not unusual to have, in a small village school, a large
number
> of children who shared the same names.

YES!

A neighbour in Urray parish had the common name of Ishbell
Mackay. She may still be alive. So many Mackay women had
that name, she was better know as PIGS MACKAY.

In her village she was the only pig farmer surnamed Mackay.

BCC sent to her neighbour!

Alistair



   We identified everyone by a nick
> name.
> Examples:
> Willie Charger.... ran off when the rent man came.
> Young Jock the Coo .... Knew everything to know about cattle
> Rab the Coo...... Jock's younger brother
> Old Jock the Coo... their father
> Black Tierlach (Charlie) ... Just a mean SOB

Let's be careful to distinguish between nicknames and bynames !

Nicknames are substitutes, bynames are a clarification added to the name, - the
Welsh practice of "Jones the Baker" is the perfect example, using the
occupation.

In the Highlands bynames could be related to appearance or locality as well ,
e.g. there was never a person baptised as Allan Breck Stewart, but there was
Alan Stewart given the byname of "Breck" to reflect his freckled and/or fair
fair complexion.

Similary re Rob Roy or Ruadh McGregor !

Orraverybest

David W Webster  FSA Scot

email:    davidwwebster@...
www:      www.rossgenealogy.co.uk

--- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, ScotHeritage@... wrote:
>
>
> All the talk of naming patterns is very interesting, but it should be
> remembered that first and family names mean/meant little or nothing in the
> Highlands. It is not unusual to have, in a small village school, a large
number
> of children who shared the same names. We identified everyone by a nick
> name.
> Examples:
> Willie Charger.... ran off when the rent man came.
> Young Jock the Coo .... Knew everything to know about cattle
> Rab the Coo...... Jock's younger brother
> Old Jock the Coo... their father
> Black Tierlach (Charlie) ... Just a mean SOB
> Dave
>
> In a message dated 11/11/2009 10:44:15 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> rbsmithwrite@... writes:
>
> One  more note on middle names. In my family middle names weren't used
> until the  1800s. When they were, they were surnames that clearly identified
the
>  grandparent for whom the child was named. In my grandmother'One  more note
> on middle names. In my family middle names weren't used until the  1800s.
> When they were, they were surnames that clearly identified the  grandparent
> for whom the child was named. In my grandmother'<WBR>s case she  was
> "Elizabeth May Jamieson" and she was named for her maOne  more note on middle
names.
> In my family middle names weren't used until the  1800s. When they were,
> they were surnames that clearly identified the  grandparent for whom the child
> was named. In my grandmother'<WBR>s case she  was "Elizabeth May Jamieson"
> and she was named for her maternal grandmother  who was "Elizabeth May". The
> same was true of her sisters ("Agnes Cochrane"  and "Flora McFee" all with
> the surname "Jamieson"). The strength of this  family tradition is m
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi, my mane is Angus and have an intrest in Beatties in Scotland

My oldest relative was William Beattie who died Benholm 1853
and his wife Isobel Kennedy who dies Brawliemuir, Benholm near Montrose in 185
May.

My GGreatgrandmother Isabella Watt (married to Robert Beattie)
died at 80 Baltic Street Montrose in 1945.

--- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Bias <cosmoswonderful@...> wrote:
>
>
>   Mine our Keen, and Colson if there is anyone out there with these names.
>
> Gayle <gayleannherron@...> wrote:
>           Hi, just was going over my emails for the first time in weeks and
saw
> these emails discussing the how domant the site has gotten and now that
> some are trying to get it going again I will also include my names. If
> anyone knows anything about them please do not hesitate to email me at
> gayleannherron@... or via this site. I will continue to read
> as time permits and if I see anything I might have that helps will send
> it. Unfortunately, my information tends to all be rather recent (past
> 100-150 years) as my lines tended to want to not be traced back then,
> and now it is a challenge at best and hopeless typically. Most of my
> help would be of the more recent Americanize stuff.
>
> Names: Colvin, Lemley, Anderson, Phillips (son's), Herron (spouse), and
> McQueen (spouse).
>
> Thanks
> Gayle
>
> kay cooper wrote:
> >
> > I will give my names too Beattie, Fairweather Wilkes all from the
> > Montrose area.
> >
> > Dont talk to me about spam, it awful.
> >
> > Kay
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sharon Bias, M.A.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

We have  Barbara Clark who had a son called Alexander Clark and he was born at
Alticry Farm near Port William

Isobel Ferguson,



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Allen: I can't give you a postive answer to your question, but looking at your
surnames they are to be found in a wide area if N. Ireland, so I would be
inclined to think they came from separate areas in Scotland, they are fairly
common Scottish names too which means they might have come from scattered areas.

                                                                       Gordon
Crooks
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Allen Clark
   To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:24 PM
   Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: Alexander / Black/Clark/Weir



   Good Afternoon
   My name is Allen Clark. I was wondering if there4 was one area in Scottkand
   Where the Clark Family settled

   On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:44 PM, madeline1960edin <
   madeline1960edin@...> wrote:

   >
   >
   > Hi, I have not found any connection, sorry.
   >
   > Madeline
   >
   > --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com <scots-origins%40yahoogroups.com>,
   > christine paton <christinelouiseuk@...> wrote:
   > >
   > > I have a Jane Bingham CLARK born 1884 Dalry, parents
   > > John CLARK and Margaret WEIR.
   > >
   > > Any connection?
   > >
   > > Christine
   > >
   > >
   > > __________________________________________________
   > > Do You Yahoo!?
   > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
   > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
   > >
   >
   >
   >

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.63/2500 - Release Date: 11/13/09
07:54:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You are fortunate, and it appears that I am not alone with my logging in
problems. I now have to think twice before attempting to try again and be
faced with yet another long session of faults and emails . I must admit that
this is a relatively recent problem. I too have had five years of almost
fault free access.


----- Original Message -----
From: <Liliardsedge@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:57 AM
Subject: [scots-origins] Re: O/T Scotlandspeople.gov.uk


>I have not noticed any problem getting signed in.
>
> I have used the site for at least five years now.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
> members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send
> an email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
> scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>