I 'chucked  out the baby with the bath water'. Meaning, I
excessively tidied my browser folders.
-------------------------------------------
At the address I gave for Peter L. Campbell bn 1880,  I looked
again, and advise that his father Peter Campbell, a coach maker,
is entered in the 1881 Census as aged 42, bn Glasgow.

I am not related: my CAMPBELL family was in Muir of Ord n. of
Beauly.

Cheers,

ALISTAIR

My aunt, May McLeod born early 1900s  married Donald Fletcher ,
Greenock...Their son is Ian, (John) I believe still lives in Greenock.....any
connections
out there...Penni

Hi Alistair

I do not see that my message was in any way challenging you and your light
hearted opinions just trying to correct the impression given that Sheffield was
in the north of England by illustrating through use of the mileage chart
provided by the AA that it is in the middle of the country (more or less).

Ian A C Scott




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is there something you know which we don't know David, and is it anything to
do with the planned fragmentation of England, where each County Shire rules
itself  - just like in Germany & France under their presidents?
==

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Millan" <david.millan.mailinglist@...>
>
> As it was not always in England perhaps the rider "at the moment"
> would be appropriate. ;-))

> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:10:21 EST, there appeared in the mailing list:
> [snip]
>
> >Yes, Berwick-upon-Tweed is in Northumberland, England, not Scotland
> [snip]

Hi David,
I hope this does not throw a spanner in the works. I have an Alexander
Cuthbertson b 3-3-1807 in Ratho, Midlothian, Scotland died 14-3-1884 married
to a Jane Reid.

David.

Sorry I can't help with your request.

I have a Rankin in my tree.  Her name was Jean Rankin.  Married to my
ggg grandfather, Patrick Steel, aka Peter Steele in 1793 at New
Monkland in Lanark.  I have no idea as yet of her parents names.

It seems we share the name Young also, as both my grandfather and g
grandfather have it as middle names.  I was told we had a Young in
the family, but I have yet to find it.

If you have a connection, please let me know.

Gordon



--- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, "Dellas Johnston" <parma@h...>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Reposting names,GEORGE YOUNG RANKIN born 1820/1821 Clealand County
Lanark  parents maybe WILLIAM AND AGNES married in NSW Australia 1855
to
>
> MARY MCCREA born 1829/1830 Canthill, Rossshire, Scotland.  Possible
relations are JOHN MCCREA AND MARY ISOBELLA MCCREA.
>
> Spelling could be MCRAE  father FARQUHAR MCRAE.  I am looking for
shipping as I think they both arrived in Australia as young children.
> I have a Mary McRae arriving in 1849 aged 17 yrs, but going by
children born from the marriage, I don't think this is my MARY MCCRAE
>
> Any help would be appreciated as I have hit a very solid brick wall
>
> Dellas
> NSW Australia.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Paul,
I was at the Midlothian library / archive centre today looking at the old
parish records and Stephen Baxter christened in August 1691 is recorded in
English not Gaelic so I don't think gaelic was the tongue in Lowland
Scotland.

Do you know Dalkeith has a historical society? I cannot give you any further
details on it but if you Email local.studies@... they will
give you further information.

Regards David.

In a message dated 31/10/03 11:13:38 GMT Standard Time, acameron@...
writes:


> I failed to get a proper reference, for my noting report that King David of
> Scotland in 1310, occupied lands close to Northallerton. As latitude goes,
> about 45 miles n. of Leeds and Bradford
>

I'll leave it up to some of the other stalwarts to reply to the other bits -
but I'm not surprised that you didn't find the reference you were looking for
here, since in 1310 Robert I (Bruce)  not David, was King of SCOTS (NOT
Scotland).

Lis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you, Canary. Yes, the James Herriot books (which became
the film and tv series All Creatures Great and Small) are set in
Yorkshire. There is a James Herriot museum at Thirsk.

Have you read Gervais Phinn's books? He was a school inspector in
the Dales and his book are in a similar vein to the James Herriot
ones. Sounds as if you'd enjoy them.

Sorry to hear it's cold in Alice. Yorkshire is starting to get cold too,
after the best summer in living memory. As a result, we have a
spectacular autumn with the trees putting on a brilliant show of colour.

Regards
Judy

Canary wrote:
  Hi Judy,  I used to live in Suffolk and sure wish I had made it up to
Yorkshire.  Didn't James Herriot write about that area?  (have all his books
but a bad memory) I am obsessed with England and most of the books I read
are set in that area. I am especially obsessed with Norah Lofts.   Sure
enjoyed your fascinating letter.  Alice in cold and misty CO for which I am
thankful as two fires broke out yesterday due to very high winds here!

Hi
Can anyone help with any info on Archibald Connell from Stewarton
Ayrshire born around 1786?

I am also looking for info on Felix Mc Ewan ( Mc Queoun ) from
Campsie Stirlingshire around 1800. & Alexander Mc Ewan from
Kirkintilloch. I have Alexander's date of birth as 1888 but can't
find anything else about him.
Thank you.

Ah, but then Sheffield only just scrapes into Yorkshire,
doesn't it? And the rest of Yorkshire would hardly call
Sheffield typical of the rest of the county!!!

But thirteen years is a long time when local governments
get their skates on with redevelopment.  Came back for
another visit soon, Alistair. The place has changed a lot.

Regards
Judy

Alistair wrote"
Ian and Judy have challenged my light- hearted opinions and I won't add to
the "flames". Except to reply to Judy's questions:

>  Are you trying to start a war!!!!

No. Like many Scots I like to disagree, without being disagreeable.

> I must ask you: when were you last in England?

August 1990, in Southgrove Rd Sheffield.   Hey! the tramcars are back on the
rails. Ancestral home of my mother. Sadly the General Cemetery has been
destroyed by the Local Authority.

I suppose I'd better reply, Alistair, although I don't usually indulge in
message board arguments as they're usually a waste of time.

         'ALBA  OF THE RAVENS (John Mander) has a map "The Kingdom of Scone"
          which encloses York, and southward to all of the Humber.'

The Kingdom of Scone isn't the same thing as Scotland. The border between
Scotland and England can only exist once entities called Scotland and
England exist.

The 'enclosing York and southward to the Humber' sounds like the southern
boundary of the old Kingdom of Northumbria. But this existed before Scotland
and England became nation states.

         'THE LION IN THE NORTH (John Prebble) describing how the Romans were
          driven out of Scotland, they "fell back to the Tyne..." having
          decided "that Caledonia was not worth the loss of another Legion"

The river Tyne is in Newcastle, which is well north of Yorkshire.

         'I failed to get a proper reference, for my noting report that King
          David of Scotland in 1310, occupied lands close to Northallerton.
          As latitude goes, about 45 miles n. of Leeds and Bradford

When you live in a country as small as Britain, 45 miles is a long way
and makes a big difference. Northallerton is on the very northern border
of present day Yorkshire.

        'SCOTLAND A NEW HISTORY (Michael Lynch) Map 3 "Provinces and
        Territories in Early Scotland" cuts off at Lancaster and York.

Just got my copy of this book off the shelf, and I can't agree with you. Map
3 doesn't show Lancaster and York. The point of cut-off on the map seems
to be where it is because that's where the page ends! And this map is using
the word Scotland in the sense of 'the land now known as Scotland'. It is
not referring to a country called Scotland.

       1823 DERBY DIRECTORY (Brewer) p101, the arrival of Prince Charles: the
        invaders demanded billets for 900 men. etc. The Directory goes on to
        describe the refugees leaving Derby for the south "the principal
        Gentlemen and Ladies, and their Tradesmen with their wives and
        children, getting away as quickly as possible."

I'm not sure what point you're making with this quote. Are you saying it
proves that the border with Scotland moved, in 1823, to Derby? I do hope
not.

         Such a load of twaddle!! Thanks to Listers, we now know that the
         Scots really had darned little penetration into dear England!!

I used the word 'tosh' actually. And it was referring to all of your
posting, not just your first point.

Regards
Judy Strachan

Paul wrote:

> Today I was wondering if any of these
> generations (born 1774, 1808 and 1842 respectively) would have
> spoken Gaelic as their modern tongue... Was Gaelic spoken at all in
> South Scotland, or was it mainly a Highland language?

Counties Argyll and north thereof probably accounted for most of the Gaelic
speakers. But Southern/ Central Scotland attracted numerous residents, economic
"refugees" ie Highlanders looking
for a more comfortable life. Those southern parishes having Free Church
congregations would <very roughly> correspond to Highlander- friendly
communities.

Gaelic was still being spoken by my rellies in Inverness and Dingwall towns,
c.1900.

Cheers,

ALISTAIR

Dorothy wrote:

>
> And, correct me if I am wrong folks, but Alastair was born in St.
> Andrews, Fife Scotland??????? or thereabouts, and has a wide
> knowledge of Scottish life and history.
>

Thanks for your kind comment. I'll not mention my birthplace, but my late father
was Champion 1937, 1938 of his golf club...... and would be "chuffed" to know
that Cameron Dam now supplies
mains water to St Andrews. Cameron Dam is in the Fife parish of Cameron.

Cheers,

Alistair Murdo CAMERON bn 4.11.29

Shane wrote:

> Census records do have errors in place of birth
> column, possibly from not understanding the accent of
> Gaelic speakers, or plain ignorance. I have a great
> great grandmother given as born in
> a. Clyne
> b. Helmsdale
> c. Loth
> d. Sunderland, Durham
>

The Sunderland DUR reference was probably one you sourced from the FAULTY LDS
1881 Census Index. The two SCOTLAND CDs were withdrawn and replaced later by a
correct pair, free of charge.

Cheers,

ALISTAIR M. CAMERON    http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/

PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

Paul

I suspect that you will get an interesting and diverse range of answers to
your several questions. I am sure that you will certainly get more detailed
answers from our more learned listers.

In a general way, Gaelic tended to be the native language of the highlands
and Islands (each region having a distinct dialect of their own), and Lalans
was spoken in the Lowlands. The clan system (where a clan would be headed by
a chief and would comprise of any number of families who may or may not be
related to each other, offering communal protection from outside attack and
the like. The family name of the chief providing the clan name) was specific
to the Highlands and Islands and not found in the Lowlands (although that is
not to say that "families" did not historically control Lowland areas).
Generally, (and I emphasise this) another main difference would be based on
religion - in my family at least, the Gaelic-speaking highlanders were
Catholic, whereas the Lalans-speaking lowlanders were, on the whole, Church
of Scotland. England was a huge cultural and political influence (either
directly or as a reaction against - I like Alastair's comment in another
message about liking to disagree without being disagreeable ...). The French
influence arises from the "Auld Alliance" which relates to Scotland/France
alliance against England for both political and religious purposes.

I do hope our fellow listers will now be kind (to my general efforts) and
generous (in sharing their specific knowledge).

Regards.

Julianne

----- Original Message -----
From: "southtropycs" <t210p@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 3:45 AM
Subject: [scots-origins] Speaking of Gaelic...


> Hello all....
>
> The three last generations I've been able to track down on
> my "Young" side of the family have been born or lived in Dalkeith,
> MDL (near Edinburgh.) Today I was wondering if any of these
> generations (born 1774, 1808 and 1842 respectively) would have
> spoken Gaelic as their modern tongue... Was Gaelic spoken at all in
> South Scotland, or was it mainly a Highland language? How
> ethnically/culturaly different were the Lowlanders compared to the
> Highlanders? Was the Clan system in the Lowlands basically the same
> as in the Highlands, or there were differences (some English/French
> influence, perhaps)? Just curious, any info greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> :-)
>
> Paul
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

In a message dated 30/10/2003 12:14:06 Central Standard Time,
canaryalice@... writes:

> Page 83 holds a little on MacRaes:"And long after the erosion of Gaelic
> society in the aftermath of Culloden, a Fletcher of Glenlyon demonstrated that
> he was as much a Gael as any clansman.  He was Archibald son of Angus
> Fletcher, born in Glenlyon in 1746, and after attending school at Kenmore in
> Breadalbane he went to Edinburgh to pursue his studies.  There in 1778 he was
deputed
> to negotiate with some MacRaes who had joined the army and were now
> objecting to the order to embark from Leith for foreign service in America. 
The
> reason he was appointed to this was that he was a native Gaelic speaker in a
> capital that had never troubled to study the language of half the population
of
> Scotland."   Alice  free samples of olive oil skin care:http://www.dhccare.com
>
The regiments did rise, and there was even an execution.  <A
HREF="http://www.hometown.aol.com/radioscotland/stories.html">ScotRadio Stories
from the Highlands</A>  You can read one of the stories on this page. It shows
the
spirit of the Highland soldier.of the time. An interesting fact often over
looked about the Mutiny is that ALL the English language books refer to the
regiments as "FENSABLE's) the true name of the regiments were, (DEfencibles) The
were risen to defend the borders of the realm and to serve inside those borders.
The had no problem until the king attempted to change the contract. While
many of the books written in the "foreign language" portray the Highlanders as a
pile of uneducated bumpkins it must be remembered that the vast majority of
the Highlanders/Gaels were bilingual, Gaelic and English, or Gaelic and French,
literate in at least their own language. Each soldier serving as a volunteer
or by conviction of conscience, they were not drummed and dragged from the
beer halls and whore houses of the kingdom. In the whole history of the Highland
regiments there are only 3 floggings recorded and all for the same incident,
all admittedly served upon innocent men. The records show that the populations
of the south of Scotland were utterly shocked at the pious nature, (each
having a bible and the ability to read it), and self discipline of the
Highlanders.
Even the mutiny was served in a military and socially acceptable manner as
gentlemen do.
Dave
Cha bhi fios aire math an tobair gus an tràigh e.
(The value of the well is not known until it goes dry.)
  MOL DO OIGHREACHD   CELEBRATE YOUR HERITAGE
to listen to ScotRadio just click below      Click here for short films
<A
HREF="http://www.live365.com/stations/240319">http://www.live365.com/stations/24\
0319</A>    <A
HREF="http://tvscots.neptune.com/index.html?selectedalbum_id=tvscots200332413242\
03652">http://tvscots.neptune.com</A>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MOL DO OIGHREACHD   CELEBRATE YOUR HERITAGE
to listen to ScotRadio just click below      Click here for short films
<A
HREF="http://www.live365.com/stations/240319">http://www.live365.com/stations/24\
0319</A>    <A
HREF="http://tvscots.neptune.com/index.html?selectedalbum_id=tvscots200332413242\
03652">http://tvscots.neptune.com</A>

Paul a lot depends on the time frame the question is asked in.  For example
during the clearances and the Industrial revolution Gaelic was quite a
prominent language in the Southern industrial city of Glasgow. But not because
Glasgow
is a Gaelic city, but because of mass immigration from the Highlands and
Islands to Glasgow where communities of Gaels formed.

Now in the very old days Arounf the 14th Century, the times of Wallace and
the Bruce, a very large portion of the north of what is today called Scotland
was claimed and gave fealty to the King of Norway. The famlies in the south were
families, not clans in the sence of the Highlands in which the clan unit was
a political entity among other purposes.  See tanestry etc.

Gaelic was and is a very old language and was more or less religated to
regions of Scotland north of Perth for the most part and then as the Normans
moved
in it too moved north. There were several languages spoken in the 12, 13, 14
etc centuries no longer spoken. A form of Norman French, called, (if I remember
correctly, and that is a stretch) Lannis was spoken by at leats the wealthy.

The Gaelic over the last hundred years or more has basically been isolated to
the areas well north of Inverness and the Islands. Mind you I can remember
the day when the Gaelic was not at all uncommon on the streets of Inverness
especially in specific areas.

Hope I have answered a couple of your questions.
Dave

In a message dated 31/10/2003 05:14:10 Central Standard Time,
t210p@... writes:

> Hello all....
>
> The three last generations I've been able to track down on
> my "Young" side of the family have been born or lived in Dalkeith,
> MDL (near Edinburgh.) Today I was wondering if any of these
> generations (born 1774, 1808 and 1842 respectively) would have
> spoken Gaelic as their modern tongue... Was Gaelic spoken at all in
> South Scotland, or was it mainly a Highland language? How
> ethnically/culturaly different were the Lowlanders compared to the
> Highlanders? Was the Clan system in the Lowlands basically the same
> as in the Highlands, or there were differences (some English/French
> influence, perhaps)? Just curious, any info greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance!
> Paul


  MOL DO OIGHREACHD   CELEBRATE YOUR HERITAGE
to listen to ScotRadio just click below      Click here for short films
<A
HREF="http://www.live365.com/stations/240319">http://www.live365.com/stations/24\
0319</A>    <A
HREF="http://tvscots.neptune.com/index.html?selectedalbum_id=tvscots200332413242\
03652">http://tvscots.neptune.com</A>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How did you get on with your search?

My name is Peter Croll. Our family are based in Perth / Aberdeen in
Scotland going back as far as I remember.

My father John Percival Croll and my late grandfather John Kirkwood
Croll take the family tree back to 1937 and 1908 respectively.

I 'chucked  out the baby with the bath water'. Meaning, I
excessively tidied my browser folders.
-------------------------------------------
At the address I gave for Peter L. Campbell bn 1880,  I looked
again, and advise that his father Peter Campbell, a coach maker,
is entered in the 1881 Census as aged 42, bn Glasgow.

I am not related: my CAMPBELL family was in Muir of Ord n. of
Beauly.

Cheers,

ALISTAIR

hi, i know a robert marshall, who used to live in blackridge - he now
lives in armadale west lothian, he has been a volunteer with
barnardos west lothian family support team for the last twenty years
that is how i met him, should u require futher info then contact me
at

jonathanvn@...


--- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, davidwmason@h... wrote:
> Darren,
> Your Robert Marshall may be a descendant of my Queensferry family,
> which was headed by a Robert Marshall and Margaret Tait, but it
would
> be a long shot to write him at this point.  If I hit a brick wall
on
> other fronts with this branch of my tree I'll get in touch.
> Cheers!
> Dave Mason
>
> --- In scots-origins@egroups.com, Darren Stewart <dstewart10@y...>
> wrote:
> > Hello my name is Darren Stewart of Australia my
> > fathers first cousin Elizabeth Ballantyne of Scotland
> > married a Robert Marshall who lives in Blackridge
> > Bathgate West Lothian If you are interested I can give
> > you his Mail address and you can write to him ,but
> > bare in mind he is in his late 70's may even early
> > 80's
> > I dont know if he ever lived in Queensferry as I have
> > never met the man
> > regards Darren
> >
> >
> > --- davidwmason@h... wrote: > To any kind soul
> > with access to the 1851 census for
> > > S. Queensferry,
> > > West Lothian, I am looking for all residents with
> > > last name MARSHALL.
> > > Any help appreciated.
> > >
> > > DWM, Ottawa, Canada
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion
> > > Group, sponsored by
> > > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official
> > > website for family history
> > > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
> > > scots-origins@e...
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
> > > scots-origins-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> > http://clubs.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Clubs
> > - Join a club or build your own!

Caroline Day wrote:

> =====================//=============chopped by AMC

>  Unfortunately Alexander died age 41 in Gartsherrie, Old Monkland, in 1869 age
41 and Mary Kelly was in a poorhouse with the children in 1881 census
>
> I haven't found them in 1871 census if anyone can help with there too!!  At
least if I could find Alexander on a census it might indicate his birthplace.

To find a birth record, first know the names of his parents. These should appear
in his 1864 death entry if he died in SCT. You <may> also see his parents named
in his 1849 marriage entry.

Once you have his parents names you may be able to find the names of his
siblings. That could add leverage to your determining his birthplace.  You may
wish to reflect, upon whether the knowledge of that place name, could greatly
advance your research. Many rural workers shifted house with annual changes to
employment.

Cheers,

ALISTAIR M. CAMERON        http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/

PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

"Alastair was born in St.Andrews, Fife Scotland??????? or thereabouts"


Well.......what's 10,000 miles between friends!!!!!

Regards,

Dorothy (Longforgan - just over the River Tay from St. Andrews, or
thereabouts!!)

Thanks Anne - Have been away and just now checking on
the new info.  Can you tell me exactly where you found
Monthelene Cameron on the Canadian census?  I have
searched the Ontario census without success.  I also
went to the Family Search site and came up with no
matches every time.

You could well be right about that generation all
being born in Ontario - which is what their death
certificates indicate.  Is it possible to access birth
certificates online?  They should give the parents
names as well as the birthdate.

Kay Scott




  --- Anne Pryce <annepryce@...> wrote: > I
just found your Monthelen Cameron on the 1881
> Canadian census on the
> Family Search site.
>    It says born Ontario and ethnic origin Scottish..
> I don`t know what that
> means. It says the same thing about both her parents
> and her sister. Could
> it not be what the census says that they where all
> born in Ontario Canada??
>      Anne
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joy" <kayceca@...>
> To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:42 PM
> Subject: [scots-origins] Cameron
>
>
> > Has anyone come across the name Monthelene
> Cameron?
> >
> > This is my grandmother and I have searched high
> and
> > low and through hundreds of camerons but have had
> no
> > success in tracing anyone beyond her.  It is such
> an
> > unusual first name and a family name that has been
> > passed down - thought someone may have noticed it.
> > The family came to Canada from Scotland as far as
> I
> > know - have traced her to Saskatchewan in the
> early
> > 1900's but that is it.
> >
> > Any help would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Kay Scott
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> >
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> > This message comes from the Scots Origins
> Discussion Group, sponsored by
> > Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group
> has been set up so that
> members can share genealogical information about
> Scotland, to reply send an
> email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
> scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion
> Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has
> been set up so that members can share genealogical
> information about Scotland, to reply send an email
> to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
> scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

If you go to the to the Family Search site at http://www.familysearch.org/
click `search for your ancestors.." and then click on "census". They have
the 1881 Canadian census their and I just entered Monthelen without an `e`
at the end and the only one there was likely your ancestor.
      Heres a copy of what I found..

          Household:

              Name  Marital Status Gender Ethnic Origin Age Birthplace
Occupation Religion
              Thomas G. CAMERON   M   Male   Scottish   28   Ontario   Marble
Cutter   E. Methodist
              Sarah CAMERON   M   Female   Scottish   28   Ontario      E.
Methodist
              Monthelen CAMERON      Female   Scottish   4   Ontario      E.
Methodist
              Kitty C. CAMERON      Female   Scottish   2   Ontario      E.
Methodist


        I had a wee go at searching for them on the IGI - they have a birth
of Kitty Cameron there which might be the right one for you..I think she`s
the only one of the family on the site...
            Hope this is of some help
                 Anne

        Kitty Cameron
               Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------
             Event(s):
            Birth:  28 FEB 1879   Paris, Brant, Ontario

            Christening:
            Death:
            Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------
             Parents:
               Father:  Thomas G. Cameron  Family
               Mother:  Sarah Rounds



----- Original Message -----
From: "Joy" <kayceca@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Cameron


> Thanks Anne - Have been away and just now checking on
> the new info.  Can you tell me exactly where you found
> Monthelene Cameron on the Canadian census?  I have
> searched the Ontario census without success.  I also
> went to the Family Search site and came up with no
> matches every time.
>
> You could well be right about that generation all
> being born in Ontario - which is what their death
> certificates indicate.  Is it possible to access birth
> certificates online?  They should give the parents
> names as well as the birthdate.
>
> Kay Scott
>
>
>
>
>  --- Anne Pryce <annepryce@...> wrote: > I
> just found your Monthelen Cameron on the 1881
> > Canadian census on the
> > Family Search site.
> >    It says born Ontario and ethnic origin Scottish..
> > I don`t know what that
> > means. It says the same thing about both her parents
> > and her sister. Could
> > it not be what the census says that they where all
> > born in Ontario Canada??
> >      Anne
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joy" <kayceca@...>
> > To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:42 PM
> > Subject: [scots-origins] Cameron
> >
> >
> > > Has anyone come across the name Monthelene
> > Cameron?
> > >
> > > This is my grandmother and I have searched high
> > and
> > > low and through hundreds of camerons but have had
> > no
> > > success in tracing anyone beyond her.  It is such
> > an
> > > unusual first name and a family name that has been
> > > passed down - thought someone may have noticed it.
> > > The family came to Canada from Scotland as far as
> > I
> > > know - have traced her to Saskatchewan in the
> > early
> > > 1900's but that is it.
> > >
> > > Any help would be much appreciated.
> > >
> > > Kay Scott
> > >
> > >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This message comes from the Scots Origins
> > Discussion Group, sponsored by
> > > Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group
> > has been set up so that
> > members can share genealogical information about
> > Scotland, to reply send an
> > email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
> > scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion
> > Group, sponsored by
> > Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has
> > been set up so that members can share genealogical
> > information about Scotland, to reply send an email
> > to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> >
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> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Judy,  I need to make a trip to the library soon so will add this name to my
list, Aliceps- I love the cold now as I had to endure 19 years in and around San
Antonio, TX!!!!Thank you, Canary. Yes, the James Herriot books (which becamethe
film and tv series All Creatures Great and Small) are set inYorkshire. There is
a James Herriot museum at Thirsk.Have you read Gervais Phinn's books? He was a
school inspector inthe Dales and his book are in a similar vein to the James
Herriotones. Sounds as if you'd enjoy them.Sorry to hear it's cold in Alice.
Yorkshire is starting to get cold too,after the best summer in living memory. As
a result, we have aspectacular autumn with the trees putting on a brilliant show
of colour.RegardsJudy

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Very surprised to read this as a Mormon geneologist who helped me told me the
Highlanders were protestant and the lowlanders were Catholic!  From Anya Seton's
book Devil Water the Covenanters were along the Scottish border.  I thought this
was Highlands?  help, Alice
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Speaking of Gaelic...PaulI suspect that you will
get an interesting and diverse range of answers toyour several questions. I am
sure that you will certainly get more detailedanswers from our more learned
listers.In a general way, Gaelic tended to be the native language of the
highlandsand Islands (each region having a distinct dialect of their own), and
Lalanswas spoken in the Lowlands. The clan system (where a clan would be headed
bya chief and would comprise of any number of families who may or may not
berelated to each other, offering communal protection from outside attack andthe
like. The family name of the chief providing the clan name) was specificto the
Highlands and Islands and not found in the Lowlands (although that isnot to say
that "families" did not historically control Lowland areas).Generally, (and I
emphasise this) another main difference would be based onreligion - in my family
at least, the Gaelic-speaking highlanders wereCatholic, whereas the
Lalans-speaking lowlanders were, on the whole, Churchof Scotland. England was a
huge cultural and political influence (eitherdirectly or as a reaction against -
I like Alastair's comment in anothermessage about liking to disagree without
being disagreeable ...). The Frenchinfluence arises from the "Auld Alliance"
which relates to Scotland/Francealliance against England for both political and
religious purposes.I do hope our fellow listers will now be kind (to my general
efforts) andgenerous (in sharing their specific knowledge).Regards.Julianne

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Penni wrote:

> My aunt, May McLeod born early 1900s  married Donald Fletcher ,
> Greenock...Their son is Ian, (John) I believe still lives in Greenock.....

I am not related. First tactics (those being common names in a populous area)-
assuming your aunt and her spouse d. in SCT

Get death entry for May
Get death entry for Donald
Note names of Informants
Hope to see that John or his sibling is named along with his street address.

Later, perhaps, try for testaments of John's parents

Apply the new found knowledge to reading the current Telecom Directory/ Elec.
Rolls


> any connections out there...Penni

Bound to be!!  ;~)

Cheers,

ALISTAIR M. CAMERON       http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/

PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

IACSCOTT@... wrote:

> Hi Alistair
>
> I do not see that my message was in any way challenging you and your light
> hearted opinions just trying to correct the impression given that Sheffield
was
> in the north of England ...........//----------chopped

Thanks Ian, I vote for the Light Hearted every time.  Serious consideration may
sometimes be a health hazard.

As you say AA has Sheffield in the middle not the north of England. As
motorists, I forgive AA for viewing a nation as a compendium of paved streets. 
But as one of the lemmings, I also
recognise England as a host of <people>, for whom the Centre of Mass is probably
very much in the south of Britain. I am thus stuck with the notion that
Sheffield and its County of York are
properly considered as northerners.

Other spheres in our Galaxy have north poles which flip/ flop. Some have days
which are longer than their years. What fun we may have in some time future,
rewriting the atlases and nav
charts!!   Think I may stay at home...........

Cheers,

ALISTAIR bn 4 November 1929.        Seventy-five today!!      (wish I was 60
again!)

Rena MCCARTHY wrote:

> Is there something you know which we don't know David, and is it anything to
> do with the planned fragmentation of England, where each County Shire rules
> itself  - just like in Germany & France under their presidents?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A grand idea. The Kingdom of Fife is still proclaimed on public signs there. For
me, the Royal Burghs of Tain and Dingwall held special powers in living memory-
my grannie bn Dingwall, my
dad bn Tain. There is a kinda immortality in neural memory.

I still "see" my late mother over my right shoulder, when I do something wrong!

Cheers,

ALISTAIR