> Posted by: "Solveig Throndardottir"
>
> Well, as I much as I may otherwise enjoy Beat Takeshi, I still think
> that his Zatoichi movies are heretical.
I thought he did only one, and from what he was talking about, it was a
tribute film. Beat Takeshi says he thinks very highly of the Zatoichi
films. Not surprising given how violent many of his films are.
> I have much the same opinion
> about recent Pink Panther movies without Peter Sellers. Incidentally,
> I think that the Zatoichi movies can be seen as part of a theatrical
> thread going back to Zatokyogen.
>
Or bad Western serials.... ;)
> Posted by: "wodeford"
>
> I don't remember if I mentioned this here, but "Hana" (Japanese title "Hana
yori mo naho") is a delightful movie about a young samurai who is sworn to
avenge his father but is better suited to teaching calligraphy than fighting
battles. He is faced with a conundrum when he finally discovers who it is he has
sworn to kill - and I'm going to leave it at that.
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0464038/
>
I wasn't aware it was available in the US. Fun to watch! Jidai-geki is
making a bit of a comeback in Japan. Yay!

Jim

A cross-post from the SCA Heralds mailing list that I hope will be of
interest to some others of us here.

	 Dōshu

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Foreign names in foreign lands
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:19:11 +1000
From: Paul Sleigh <bat@...>
Reply-To: Discussions of SCA Heraldry <SCAHRLDS@...>
To: SCAHRLDS@...

An article for those of us who deal with clients named Abdul MacTavish
von Tokyo and the like...

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1702

: Bat :

--
      Mori Daitarô Michimori-shônagon

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig!
> But I've studied the language (though I've never had much success
> at deciphering Japanese calligraphy).
Well, there is a matrix for Japanese calligraphy. There are several
different historical basic letter forms. Then, each of those can be
written in either kaisho, gyosho, or sosho style. Sosho is difficult
to read and write even if you are Japanese. If you can deal with
printed Japanese, then i am confident that you can deal with kaisho
and possibly even gyosho.
> (2)  From recent conversation with heralds, I would say that
> writing out the scroll text on the back is the least you can do.
> They really like it if you print it out on a computer in a nice
> readable font and attach that to the back.  (I'm guessing you'd
> want to use something easy on the scroll - maybe drafting tape?  I
> don't know these tricks.)
Actually, laser printed cheat sheets can just as easily be attached
to the front. What I have heard from court heralds is that reading
the back of the scroll allows the audience more time to look at the
scroll. BAH! I would vastly prefer that any scroll that I produce be
properly read from the front and then shown to the recipient. Reading
from the back makes it obvious that the scroll is not being read by
the herald. BAH! again.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

Noble cousins!

Greetings from solveig!
> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1702
Sounds like folks from Hong Kong. Pretty much everybody in Hong Kong
had an English name when I was there.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@...> wrote:
>
> Usually an online site, www.sportsmansguide.com, has the military cord
> that others have mentioned and, if the same holds true for this as for
> the other items they carry, you probably won't find it any cheaper!

While sites like that will have paracord, they will generally have only a
limited range of colors, such as black, white, OD green, and brown, possibly the
camo varieties. Often a craft site, such as
http://www.ubraidit.com/supplies-detail.php?item=26 or
http://www.paracordpaul.com/ordering/colors/ will have a wider selection of
paracord colors.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 3:10 AM, Solveig Throndardottir<nostrand@...> wrote:

> Actually, laser printed cheat sheets can just as easily be attached
> to the front. What I have heard from court heralds is that reading
> the back of the scroll allows the audience more time to look at the
> scroll. BAH! I would vastly prefer that any scroll that I produce be
> properly read from the front and then shown to the recipient. Reading
> from the back makes it obvious that the scroll is not being read by
> the herald. BAH! again.

So reading /your/ words is important?

I've known heralds who actually memorize the text of the scroll (or at
least the text of basic scrolls, ad-libbing as need be).  A cheat
sheet, therefore, is just that.  Reading from it should rarely be
"obvious" if the herald has time to do their job properly (for one
thing, they shouldn't be reading into the scroll, but out towards the
audience).

As for a separate sheet, that's a good idea, too--or an index card.
Just realize separate sheets are more likely to go walkabout.

-Ii

Ii dono!

Greetings from Solveig!
> So reading /your/ words is important?
I know people who have gotten awards, in one case a Laurel, for their
scroll wording.
> A cheat sheet, therefore, is just that.  Reading from it should
> rarely be
> "obvious" if the herald has time to do their job properly (for one
> thing, they shouldn't be reading into the scroll, but out towards the
> audience).
Haven't you watched the award presentation ceremonies at the end of
the fifteenth day of a sumo tournament? Or the various presentations
of orders in jidaigeki? I thought we were discussing how to do things
in a more Japanese manner.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Solveig Throndardottir<nostrand@...> wrote:

> Greetings from Solveig!
>> So reading /your/ words is important?
> I know people who have gotten awards, in one case a Laurel, for their
> scroll wording.

But why do you need someone to be reading the wording in front of people?

> Haven't you watched the award presentation ceremonies at the end of
> the fifteenth day of a sumo tournament? Or the various presentations
> of orders in jidaigeki? I thought we were discussing how to do things
> in a more Japanese manner.

I'm discussing how to make scrolls for SCA heralds (with no Japanese
experience) to read them.  You are discussing how heralds should read
in a Japanese manner.  The two are separate, and I guess we are just
talking past each other.

Ii dono!

Greetings from Solveig!
> I'm discussing how to make scrolls for SCA heralds (with no Japanese
> experience) to read them.  You are discussing how heralds should read
> in a Japanese manner.  The two are separate, and I guess we are just
> talking past each other.
Western European heralds should also be reading from the scroll.
Supposably, the white baton carried by European heralds were used to
support longer scrolls as a sort of mechanical tele-prompter.
Historically, "winging it" just wasn't a major part of the job
description.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

> Western European heralds should also be reading from the scroll.
> Supposably, the white baton carried by European heralds were used to
> support longer scrolls as a sort of mechanical tele-prompter.
> Historically, "winging it" just wasn't a major part of the job
> description.
>
Then again, neither were pretty pictures on most scrolls.  People
rarely cared about the C&I, and more about the actual legal effects.

-Ii

Ii dono!

Greetings from Solveig!
> Then again, neither were pretty pictures on most scrolls.  People
> rarely cared about the C&I, and more about the actual legal effects.
While some famous documents lacked illumination, many legal documents
during the European middle ages and renaissance actually did have
pictures on them. Check out the many documents at the Krimminal
Museum in Germany. Also, a Portugese viceregal charter (if I recall
the document correctly) covering East Asia.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
> Western European heralds should also be reading from the scroll.

Interkingdom Anthropology moment: In some kingdoms, they don't read from the
scroll at all, they read a one-litany-fits-all from a Ceremony Book: to the
degree that the populace can identify what the recipient has been called up for
in five words or less.  http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Ceremony/index.htm

Saionji no Hanae
West Kingdom

Saionji hime!

Greetings from Solveig!
> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir
> <nostrand@...> wrote:
>> Western European heralds should also be reading from the scroll.
>
> Interkingdom Anthropology moment: In some kingdoms, they don't read
> from the scroll at all, they read a one-litany-fits-all from a
> Ceremony Book: to the degree that the populace can identify what
> the recipient has been called up for in five words or less.  http://
> heralds.westkingdom.org/Ceremony/index.htm
1. I've spent time in the central Middle Kingdom and am well familiar
with their great book of ceremony.
2. "Should" is not descriptive of any particular SCA practice. The
business about the white rod and actually reading scrolls is well
known to a lot of heralds from across the Known World. It has been
thoroughly discussed on heraldic mailing lists and most likely been
the subject of a class or two at KWHS as well. Quite aside from not
adapting to the individual monarch or award recipient, the biggest
problem with standard scroll texts is that they are antithetical to
research, historical recreation, and learning about pre-modern stuff
in general.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:06 AM, wodeford<wodeford@...> wrote:
> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
>> Western European heralds should also be reading from the scroll.
>
> Interkingdom Anthropology moment: In some kingdoms, they don't read from the
scroll at all, they read a one-litany-fits-all from a Ceremony Book: to the
degree that the populace can identify what the recipient has been called up for
in five words or less. �http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Ceremony/index.htm
>
I really need to (re-)learn all of my West traditions.  I *did* start
in Oertha, but I've been in Atlantia for so long you forget how things
are done elsewhere.  :)


-Ii

Saionji hime!

Greetings from Solveig!
> Interkingdom Anthropology moment: In some kingdoms, they don't read
> from the scroll at all, they read a one-litany-fits-all from a
> Ceremony Book: to the degree that the populace can identify what
> the recipient has been called up for in five words or less.  http://
> heralds.westkingdom.org/Ceremony/index.htm
I just read the section on creating laurels, and the West Kingdom
book of ceremony specifically mentions the possibility of reading
from a scroll. The text in the book of ceremony states that it is to
be used when a scroll is not available. Some kingdoms are much more
proactive than other kingdoms are in producing scrolls in advance of
awards being given. Interestingly enough, the West Kingdom book of
ceremony provides for four different formats at least one of which I
have no recollection of ever seeing performed in an Eastern-Rite
kingdom. This is the seek out the candidate technique. I'm also
pretty certain that the king informing the order format is rare in
Eastern-Rite kingdoms.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
> I just read the section on creating laurels, and the West Kingdom
> book of ceremony specifically mentions the possibility of reading
> from a scroll.

That is an option for peerages, otherwise they're done "by the book."

> Some kingdoms are much more proactive than other kingdoms are in   > producing
scrolls in advance of awards being given.
There was a hugeous scribal backlog when I moved out here. The kingdom and
principality scribal colleges have done a great deal to reduce it. On the other
hand, having the ceremonies boilerplated means that the royalty has the option
of observing meritorious behavior and rewarding it right away.

> Interestingly enough, the West Kingdom book of ceremony provides   > for four
different formats at least one of which I have no recollection of ever seeing
performed in an Eastern-Rite
> kingdom. This is the seek out the candidate technique.

Yeah, they do "surprise" peerages out here. (Personally, I think a job offer
should be treated like a job offer.)

Saionji no Hanae
West Kingdom

Try A.H. Rice Braid. The make a plain flat braid in a wide variety of colors and
in widths from 1/4" to 2". I don't know what their pricing is like, but I don't
think you can beat them for colors and widths. Their web address is
http://www.ricebraid.com/

I also am in the process of making a suit of kebiki laced Maru do. I am just not
to the lacing part yet.

Hope this helps.

Uilleam

P.S. Effingham, The link in the armor manual for A.H. Rice Braid is now
incorrect. It has changed to http://www.ricebraid.com/.


--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "mi6_studios" <mi6_studios@...> wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
> I am new to the SCA and am making Japanese Samurai armor.
>
> I am to the point of lacing.
>
> Does anyone know of any good / cheap place to acquire lacing without breaking
my budget?  I still need $$ for a Kabuto and other items.
>
>
> cheers
>
> w.b
>
> Toronto
>

I don't know if this helps in the discussion at all, but I just wanted to share
what I received when I was given my AoA (as Kajiyama Shinobu).  The scroll with
the wording that was read by the herald was done in a western style.  As an
additional companion piece, the person who did the scroll also did a sumi-e
painting for me of a Buddhist nun (at the time that is what my persona was).  It
fit for me personally because at the time I was just beginning the development
of my Landsknecht persona, so I had both the Japanese and Western personas (as
quite a few of us do).  It was meaningful for me to know that the scribe had not
only done a beautiful job on the Western-style scroll, which took time and
effort, but that she also took extra time to create the additional
Japanese-style piece for me.  Again, I don't know if this helps the discussion,
but just thought I'd share.
Aoyama Narime
____________________________________________________________
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYSwrF0PSz9v5FoFUd18disJoH1K\
jLNwiroJe9K10R7qWy01YiEMfO/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will be teaching at the following two events in the near future:

Collegium Caidis, Torrance, California, 9/19 - 9/20/09,
Saturday, 9 AM - 10:50, Beginner taiko.
Sunday 2PM - 3:50, Before the Shogun: an overview of pre-17th c. Japanese dress.

Great Western War, Taft, California, 10/6 - 10/12/09
Saturday, 1 - 2 PM, Beginner taiko.
Saturday 3 - 4 PM, Before the Shogun: an overview of pre-17th c. Japanese dress.

Hope to see some of you there.
Saionji no Hanae
West Kingdom

The following is not an award scroll, but I just HAD to share:

I've been friends with Richard Man and his wife Karisu for over a year now. He
was the head of photography for Costume Con 26 who made me look so good in
official photos. He also combines Chinese calligraphy with some of his art
photography to beautiful effect. (Go to http://www.rfman.com/Homepage to see his
work.)

Last night, at a party at their house, Richard had ground some ink for a project
he was working on and called me over to his computer to ask me what my Japanese
name was and did I know how to write it. Yes, in hiragana and pretty much only
if I have a copy of it in front of me, which I admit is rather sad. So I fed him
the syllabic elements for the romaji spelling and the meanings of each, he
looked up the kanji for everything and sent me back into the kitchen where I
soon became embroiled in more socializing.

Some time later, he came over and presented me with THIS.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2465/3893937603_ff128577f9.jpg

The large character is "Love," the characters at the right spell out my name in
kanji, Saionji Hanae. The date (2009) and Richard's chop are at the bottom left.

It goes without saying that I was deeply touched and honored.

Saionji no Hanae
West Kingdom

On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:56 AM, wodeford wrote:

> The following is not an award scroll, but I just HAD to share:
>
>
<snip>
>
> It goes without saying that I was deeply touched and honored.
>

The only appropriate response is, in fine southern American
polysyllaby, "dayum!"

That's just too cool for words.



Effingham

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Anthony Bryant<anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
>
> On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:56 AM, wodeford wrote:
>
>> The following is not an award scroll, but I just HAD to share:
>>
> <snip>
>>
>> It goes without saying that I was deeply touched and honored.
>>
>
> The only appropriate response is, in fine southern American
> polysyllaby, "dayum!"
>
> That's just too cool for words.
>
>
Definitely.

-Ii

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:

> The only appropriate response is, in fine southern American
> polysyllaby, "dayum!"
>
> That's just too cool for words.

It occurs to me that I should mention that Richard is originally from Hong Kong
and has been writing in Chinese his entire life. That said, he does have a
lovely hand for calligraphy and I am thrilled beyond belief that he did that for
me.

Saionji no Hanae
West Kingdom

>>>>
The large character is "Love," the characters at the right spell out my name in
kanji, Saionji Hanae. The date (2009) and Richard's chop are at the bottom left.
>>>>

A treasure for a treasure. Congratulations! Ki no Izumi

I will be teaching kumihimo at Collegium Caidis--unfortunately, it's the
same time as Saionji-hime's taiko class, but if you're rhythm-challenged and
string-enhanced...or at least drop by and say "Hi, tora-sensei!" on your
way to  or from taiko [pouting because I can't be both places  at the same
time]

Tora/Luighseach

The class listing says "intermediate kumihimo" but if you've ever done any
braiding on a disk, or finger-looping, you have the skill  set.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

here is an interesting article.....it illustrates that once again the samurai
had a lot of things right........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090907/us_time/08599192075300

Lord Yagyu of ansteorra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just talked to Rice Braid about pricing for the braid I want to order for the
armor I am making. As far as I know, I only need two different widths of braid
for my armour, so, those are the widths I have information for. Their stock roll
is 144yds. They are willing to sell partial rolls if they have them, and are
willing to accomodate you if they can, but there is no guarantee.

I can easily see this being a excellent source for those doing kebiki odoshi, or
several people getting the same colors and widths for matching armours, kebiki
or sugake odoshi.

Here goes:
Both are Plain Flat Braid

Textured Polyester:
3/8"- 73.50 per roll.
3/4"- 133.30 per roll

Nylon
3/8"- 111.85 per roll
3/4"- 142.40 per roll

The lady I talked to (Jennifer Ludmar) was very nice and commented the they had
filled quite a few orders for braid for Japanese armour, and are becoming quite
familar with the particular needs of people making armour.

Hope this helps.

Uilleam

Hello everyone.  I am also new to the SCA and when they mentioned Samurai I
heard my calling.

I have been working on a lot of things since then and I have put together I
think a good name.  I would like your input and feedback.

Yamamoto no Sadataro Hikaru


I am also working on armor.  Im thinking mostly black with silver and red
accents.  Hows that?

I am also a member of the 501st for those of you that know what that is.  LFL
has black Samurai armor ok display on different web sites.  Looks like that was
where they got the concept for the big man in black.  Is that a good model to
work from?

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "loujaue" <loujaue@...> wrote:

> I am also a member of the 501st for those of you that know what that is.  LFL
has black Samurai armor ok display on different web sites.  Looks like that was
where they got the concept for the big man in black.  Is that a good model to
work from?

I had to Google it. If you are referring to Darth Vader, it is a well known fact
that George Lucas shamelessly lifted a great deal from Akira Kurosawa's "The
Hidden Fortress." (If you have not seen it, rent it immediately. It's terrific!)
Vader's helmet is an amalgam of a kabuto and a WWII German coal scuttle helmet.

If you want to make period correct armor, please go immediately to
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/index.html

Read it. Think about it. Then go back and read it again. And think about it some
more: there's a LOT of information in there and it's easy to become overwhelmed.

Welcome!
Saionji no Hanae
West Kingdom

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig!

1. Pretty much ALL Kurosawa movies are well worth seeing.
2. In addition to Baron Effingham's site (already cited) you should
also check out the stuff on http://www.yamakaminari.com/ Sir Ogami
produces functional SCA helmets and armor which are patterned after
historical pieces.
3. If you are at all able to, go to a museum which actually has
Japanese armor on display. For example, the Smithsonian.
4. Finally, if you don't mind books written in Japanese, there are
some fine profusely illustrated books out there which can be obtained
through Amazon's Japanese storefront or possibly found at a research
library. Various people here can recommend books to take a look at.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar