I'm from Vulpine reach, and am curious as to the construction of
common japanese armor. If you could point me the way, and what not,
i'd be more than happy to accept anything.

(Matt, happy now, you old bastard..)

Dave

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "David" <cofermon@a...> wrote:
> I'm from Vulpine reach, and am curious as to the construction of
> common japanese armor. If you could point me the way, and what not,
> i'd be more than happy to accept anything.
>
> (Matt, happy now, you old bastard..)
>
> Dave

## Japanese Armour

    1. The Nihon Katchuu Seisakuban: An Online Japanese Armour Manual
by AJ Bryant has detailed information on the construction of Japanese
armour. You can find it at http://sengokudaimyo.com
    2. The Yama Kaminari site has some information by Sir Ogami Akira
on making SCA legal Japanese armour. You can find it at
http://www.nb.net/~kmeg/kaminari/
    3. The Tanki Yoriaku is an annotated eighteenth century arming
guide. You can find it at http://rhinohide.cx/tousando/yoriaku

Hope this helps make some old bastard happy.
Otagiri

makiwara_no_yetsuko wrote:

> Honorable friends,
>
> While it's not quite ready yet, I am pleased to announce that I
> spent several hours this weekend working on my "kosode made simple"
> page and hope to have something useful to present in the not too
> distant future.
>
> Now if I can get my roommate to take some pics for me.....
>
> Makiwara

COOL!!!  Can't wait to see it!

Kiri

Makiwara-hime,

I am delighted to hear it, and will happily try it out as soon as it's
available!
I can make detailed Viking and Cavalier garb, even Landsknecht, but for some
reason, straight lines are beyond me.....:)

the lady of the waaaaay lost knarr,
Tsukiko


Honorable friends,

While it's not quite ready yet, I am pleased to announce that I
spent several hours this weekend working on my "kosode made simple"
page and hope to have something useful to present in the not too
distant future.

Now if I can get my roommate to take some pics for me.....

Makiwara



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"Tora o no ni hanatsu"=to let a tiger loose in a field


or

to give free hand to a dangerous character

source-Fountain of Japanese proverbs
The Hokuseido Press
Taiji Takashima



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Yeah!

Now I can start butchering my first Japanese Garb
piece!!  Thank you Makiwara for always being a guide
in my life. (and for getting me to stop wearing
Tanaka's clothes ;)

Miss you!

Miyamori Takame
(Krit)



--- makiwara_no_yetsuko
<makiwara_no_yetsuko@...> wrote:

> Honorable friends,
>
> While it's not quite ready yet, I am pleased to
> announce that I
> spent several hours this weekend working on my
> "kosode made simple"
> page and hope to have something useful to present in
> the not too
> distant future.
>
> Now if I can get my roommate to take some pics for
> me.....
>
> Makiwara
>
>





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Perfect.  Thank you!  ;)



--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Avia Belle Moon <debbiesan2000@y...>
wrote:
>
> "Tora o no ni hanatsu"=to let a tiger loose in a field
>
>
> or
>
> to give free hand to a dangerous character
>
> source-Fountain of Japanese proverbs
> The Hokuseido Press
> Taiji Takashima
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kristin Pamperin
<krystinialefay@y...> wrote:
Kritter-hime, how the heck ARE you?

This is all Fujimaki's fault, y'know. (He may be Gaius' squire, but
he'll always be MY yojimbo.)

> Now I can start butchering my first Japanese Garb piece!!
Sweetie, if you can solder precious metals, you can cut fabric in a
straight line. The cutting and sewing part is easy.

> Thank you Makiwara for always being a guide in my life. (and for
> getting me to stop wearing Tanaka's clothes ;)
And hang around in bars? Guide? Me? Must be someone else you're
thinking of. ;->

Makiwara

YEAH!!!!!

Thank you!!

Kita
also straight-line impaired

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Rae Lahman <tsukiko_gozen@y...>
wrote:
>
> Makiwara-hime,
>
> I am delighted to hear it, and will happily try it out as soon as
it's available!
> I can make detailed Viking and Cavalier garb, even Landsknecht,
but for some reason, straight lines are beyond me.....:)
>
> the lady of the waaaaay lost knarr,
> Tsukiko
>
>
> Honorable friends,
>
> While it's not quite ready yet, I am pleased to announce that I
> spent several hours this weekend working on my "kosode made
simple"
> page and hope to have something useful to present in the not too
> distant future.
>

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "tgrcat2001" <grasse@m...> wrote:
> also straight-line impaired

That's what rulers are for, ladies and gents! And seam gauges. ;->

I was fabric shopping this weekend at a local merchant who offers
sewing workshops in their remnant room. I watched half a dozen women
earnestly using paper patterns to cut out rectangular pieces to make
tote bags - a job I could've done in half the time by eye with a
ruler and a piece of chalk. I do know that not everyone CAN do these
things without step by step instructions. Once I have the kosode page
up, I invite comments if things don't make sense to you. I'm even
working out instructions on making your own paper patterns for the
people that Must Have A Pattern.

Our ancestors faced the same challenges. I just read that the Shoso-
in temple artifacts include a miniature gizmo that works like one of
those engineer's chalk line reels (only using ink instead) for
marking fabric for cutting. If you plan on making your own clothing,
particularly Japanese items which require a lot of straight lines,
there are all sorts of tools you can find at your sewing supply store
that are designed to make your life easier! It's worth your while to
invest in a yardstick and even one of those cardboard cutting mats
with gridlines printed on it.

Cheers,
Makiwara

> That's what rulers are for, ladies and gents! And seam gauges. ;->
>

> Makiwara

That's what carpenter squares and selvedge are made for

Otagiri

it is far less a matter of 'I am clueless on how to draw a straight
line' and more of a 'I cant visualize how things will go together
without the paper pattern'.  With the paper I can hold it up and my
brain recognizes how it should go together.  Just drawing on my
pretty fabric and I just KNOW Im gonna miss or mess up an important
bit.  Perhaps in another year or two I will be able to sew as I cook
(by the seat of my pants um hakama), but for now I want the safety
of a recipe in the shape of a paper pattern.

Kita
confident cook, insecure seamstress


--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Otagiri Tatsuzou" <ronbroberg@y...>
wrote:
> > That's what rulers are for, ladies and gents! And seam gauges. ;-
>
> >
>
> > Makiwara
>
> That's what carpenter squares and selvedge are made for
>
> Otagiri

good day all
I am feeling pretty good that I should buy these two books(see below),  anything
negative at all?? seems like Bottomley is one of the worlds formost researchers
in the area of Japanese armor.
Tim (I almost have a period name)



  Bottomley, Ian. Japanese Armor: The Galeno Collection. Berkeley, CA. Stone
Bridge Press, 1998.
        This book consists entirely of impressive full-page photographs (many in
color) of the armour and related accouterments in the collection of Dr. W. A.
Galeno. Almost all the armour is post-Period, but there are several wonderful
things to look at. Armours in this book should not be reproduced until one
grocks Japanese armour well enought to know which elements to exclude as
post-Period and which ones to run screaming from as hideously post-Period
wierdness.

        Bottomley, Ian and A.P. Hopson. Arms and Armor of the Samurai. Crescent
Books, NYC. 1988.
        The photographs in this oversized book are wonderful. Some of the armours
are typical of the Age of Battles, although there are some wonderful
eccentricities (such as the Edo Era "tengû armour"). Many armours are from the
Arashiyama Art Museum in Kyôto.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim,
I have both books...indeed the Galeno collection book is an expensive
prospect...
If you are in to armor, they are both fine books. Bottomly has done
some fine work, and the books are indespensible to me. True, the
Galeno book features mostly post period work, but it is still usefull,
not only in terms of showing where armor started going in different
kuni, but with different armor groups...
Heck - even the description of the different classes of menpo and
hoate is usefull, because the information is hard to find
elsewhere...and if you like to build armor in Japanese, like I do, the
kanji descriptions are helpfull...

There are minor mistakes in the Arms and Armor book, which can be
judged against other works...but it is also a good work. Bottomly
gives very good descriptions of the armor building process, which,
taken as a whole, is quite informative...

I have had three copies of this book - a "working" book, that I keep
in the armory, a slightly better copy that does not include the grease
marks and burns and tears of the armory book, and a shelf book..Just
beware...the binding does not hold up to excessive wear and tear...my
armory book no longer has a cover or the first few pages...


Not bad additions to your collection...


Date Saburou Yukiie
Yama Kaminari Ryu
Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave




--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Tim adams <tim_adams_unix@y...> wrote:
> good day all
> I am feeling pretty good that I should buy these two books(see
below),  anything negative at all?? seems like Bottomley is one of the
worlds formost researchers in the area of Japanese armor.
> Tim (I almost have a period name)
>
>
>
>  Bottomley, Ian. Japanese Armor: The Galeno Collection. Berkeley,
CA. Stone Bridge Press, 1998.
>        This book consists entirely of impressive full-page
photographs (many in color) of the armour and related accouterments in
the collection of Dr. W. A. Galeno. Almost all the armour is
post-Period, but there are several wonderful things to look at.
Armours in this book should not be reproduced until one grocks
Japanese armour well enought to know which elements to exclude as
post-Period and which ones to run screaming from as hideously
post-Period wierdness.
>
>        Bottomley, Ian and A.P. Hopson. Arms and Armor of the
Samurai. Crescent Books, NYC. 1988.
>        The photographs in this oversized book are wonderful. Some of
the armours are typical of the Age of Battles, although there are some
wonderful eccentricities (such as the Edo Era "tengû armour"). Many
armours are from the Arashiyama Art Museum in Kyôto.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "tgrcat2001" <grasse@m...> wrote:
> it is far less a matter of 'I am clueless on how to draw a
straight
> line' and more of a 'I cant visualize how things will go together
> without the paper pattern'.  With the paper I can hold it up and
my
> brain recognizes how it should go together.

That's OK, different people process information differently. I've
already roughed out written instructions on how to make your own
pattern, now I'm wondering if I can do an exploded diagram sketch
that'll show where all the pieces parts go....

Still mulling,
Makiwara

Anyone know exactly how much kozane would be needed for a typical Do
based on Effingham-dono's kozane design for sale at Noble Plastics?

ICHIKAWA no Moromoto

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McAdams" <rmcadams@c...> wrote:
> Anyone know exactly how much kozane would be needed for a typical
Do
> based on Effingham-dono's kozane design for sale at Noble Plastics?
>
> ICHIKAWA no Moromoto

I worked it out to 1700 or so for a do, 6 kusazuri, and 2 tosei sode,
which includes cutting some in half for the starting and finishing
half-kozane.

You'll have to make the tapered ones for the shikoro and nodowa
yourself.

BTW, thats based off my measurements, a typical, 6', 175 pound male.
With padding, I'm about 36" around the middle, 44" or so aroud the
chest.

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McAdams" <rmcadams@c...> wrote:
> Anyone know exactly how much kozane would be needed for a typical Do
> based on Effingham-dono's kozane design for sale at Noble Plastics?
>
> ICHIKAWA no Moromoto

Here are the numbers as I churned them for a domaru. I am assuming a
42" waistline.

~620 Dou
~680 Kusazuri
~400 Sode
----------
1700 scales.

I ordered 2000 just to be sure. I am sure I can find uses for any extra.

Yup. Its a lot.

Otagiri

As a side note, I got the e-mail update stating they would be
available for sale on the website by last weekend.  Have they been
put up yet?  They don't seem to be there when I go to the site...am I
missing something?




--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Otagiri Tatsuzou" <ronbroberg@y...>
wrote:
> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McAdams" <rmcadams@c...> wrote:
> > Anyone know exactly how much kozane would be needed for a typical
Do
> > based on Effingham-dono's kozane design for sale at Noble
Plastics?
> >
> > ICHIKAWA no Moromoto
>
> Here are the numbers as I churned them for a domaru. I am assuming a
> 42" waistline.
>
> ~620 Dou
> ~680 Kusazuri
> ~400 Sode
> ----------
> 1700 scales.
>
> I ordered 2000 just to be sure. I am sure I can find uses for any
extra.
>
> Yup. Its a lot.
>
> Otagiri

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig! To the best of my knowledge, those are the sort
of domestic dogs that go WAN! WAN! in Japan.
--

					 Your Humble Servant
					 Solveig Throndardottir
					 Amateur Scholar

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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| deMoivre Institute              | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est            |
| mailto:nostrand@...         | mailto:bnostran@...            |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the  |
|       trash by my email filters.                                          |
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--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <igau@a...> wrote:
> As a side note, I got the e-mail update stating they would be
> available for sale on the website by last weekend.  Have they been
> put up yet?  They don't seem to be there when I go to the site...am I
> missing something?
>

I had to refresh my browser on each page to see their new pages.

That's what rulers are for, ladies and gents! And seam gauges. ;->

I watched half a dozen women
earnestly using paper patterns to cut out rectangular pieces to make
tote bags - a job I could've done in half the time by eye with a
ruler and a piece of chalk. I do know that not everyone CAN do these
things without step by step instructions.

When sewing things with curves, I can do the whole thing by eye, but I tried a
hakama once and got it so wide, I swam in it.

It's worth your while to
invest in a yardstick and even one of those cardboard cutting mats
with gridlines printed on it.

Ah...I have one of those cutting boards. It makes my bed a wonderful cutting
table! I suppose I could use the little squareish dots for what they're on there
for....:)

Cheers,
Makiwara


Sewing like mad,

Tsukiko



__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

makiwara_no_yetsuko wrote:

> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "tgrcat2001" <grasse@m...> wrote:
> > it is far less a matter of 'I am clueless on how to draw a
> straight
> > line' and more of a 'I cant visualize how things will go together
> > without the paper pattern'.  With the paper I can hold it up and
> my
> > brain recognizes how it should go together.
>
> That's OK, different people process information differently. I've
> already roughed out written instructions on how to make your own
> pattern, now I'm wondering if I can do an exploded diagram sketch
> that'll show where all the pieces parts go....
>
> Still mulling,
> Makiwara
>
>
You know...if you keep this up, you could potentially turn all of this
lovely work into a Compleat Anachronist...you could also include a part
about how to choose fabrics, which types were used in period (late
period), etc.  I know that one was done a few years back that dealt
mostly with Heian period...it'd be great to have one from
Muromachi-Momoyama times.  I know several people who could, if you
wished, contribute articles on fabrics and fabric embellishment, etc.

Kiri

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Otagiri Tatsuzou" <ronbroberg@y...>
wrote:
> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <igau@a...> wrote:
> > As a side note, I got the e-mail update stating they would be
> > available for sale on the website by last weekend.  Have they
been
> > put up yet?  They don't seem to be there when I go to the
site...am I
> > missing something?
> >
>
> I had to refresh my browser on each page to see their new pages.

Tried that.  Tried deleting all my cookies and temp internet files
too.  I just keep getting the page that says they are coming Summer,
2004, and the shopping and gallery pages hanven't changed either.  =(

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@c...> wrote:
> makiwara_no_yetsuko wrote:
> >
> You know...if you keep this up, you could potentially turn all of
this
> lovely work into a Compleat Anachronist.

There you go, putting the ox before the cart again. That's what
servants are for. ;-> I want to make sure this puppy works for all
the people who claim to be sewing impaired out there FIRST.

There is already a TI article on Momoyama period kosode - I hunted
down the back issue to see if I was repeating something that had
already been done, but it's all about textiles and decorative styles,
not about how to make one. I have not seen Kass McGann's CA on Heian
dress as she let it go out of print in favor of more recent work on
her website.

Speaking of which, I sat down last night with graph paper and
sketched both a cutting diagram and an "exploded" kosode - except I
haven't QUITE figured out how to draw the collar in. I gave it to my
roommate. He seemed to think it'll be comprehensible - and has
offered to take pictures for me.

I am humbled and gratified by the response my "homework" is
receiving. I only hope I come up with something that proves useful.

Makiwara

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Rae Lahman <tsukiko_gozen@y...> wrote:
> Ah...I have one of those cutting boards. It makes my bed a
wonderful cutting table! I suppose I could use the little squareish
dots for what they're on there for....:)

That grid isn't purely decorative, y'know! You can even stick pins in
the fabric to tack it to the cardboard and go to town with a rotary
cutter. OK, $30 seems like a lot for a hunk of cardboard, but it's a
USEFUL piece of cardboard.

M.

Greetings to one and to all.
well it is almost ready for the field. but still need a helm anyone know
were to get a open faced Kabuto that is combat legal.
thankyou
tannim

On Aug 31, 2004, at 6:42 PM, Tannim Fraiser wrote:

>
> Greetings to one and to all.
> well it is almost ready for the field. but still need a helm anyone
> know
> were to get a open faced Kabuto that is combat legal.

I've found it's always easier and better to get one from a local
armorer, even if it's one that doesn't regularly do kabuto.

That said, I'd recommend Date Saburou Yukiie, who can be reached via
www.kabutographics.com

> thankyou
> tannim


Sir Koredono

<snip>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
>    Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:34:43 -0000
>    From: "makiwara_no_yetsuko" <makiwara_no_yetsuko@...>
> Subject: Straight lines, was Re: Kosode project update
>
> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "tgrcat2001" <grasse@m...> wrote:
> > also straight-line impaired
>
> That's what rulers are for, ladies and gents! And seam gauges. ;->
>
> I was fabric shopping this weekend at a local merchant who offers
> sewing workshops in their remnant room. I watched half a dozen women
> earnestly using paper patterns to cut out rectangular pieces to make
> tote bags - a job I could've done in half the time by eye with a
> ruler and a piece of chalk. I do know that not everyone CAN do these
> things without step by step instructions. Once I have the kosode page
> up, I invite comments if things don't make sense to you. I'm even
> working out instructions on making your own paper patterns for the
> people that Must Have A Pattern.
>
> Our ancestors faced the same challenges. I just read that the Shoso-
> in temple artifacts include a miniature gizmo that works like one of
> those engineer's chalk line reels (only using ink instead) for
> marking fabric for cutting. If you plan on making your own clothing,
> particularly Japanese items which require a lot of straight lines,
> there are all sorts of tools you can find at your sewing supply store
> that are designed to make your life easier! It's worth your while to
> invest in a yardstick and even one of those cardboard cutting mats
> with gridlines printed on it.
>
> Cheers,
> Makiwara
>

My information on Japanese woodworking simply calls it an ink line. It
does indeed work identically to chalk lines, though in my opinion seems
to produce a finer line, BUT that line is permanent once it is laid down
unlike a chalk line. I am contemplating making myself a set of 2-4 of
them... 1 for black ink (to use on light surfaces), 1 with orange ink
(to use on dark surfaces), possibly 1 for white ink (to use on metals),
and maybe even one to be filled with chalk. But alas I have way to many
projects to be getting to this one any time soon.

Iwakawa Shiro Yoshimasa

<snip>

Tannim, here are some:

Dresser Jingasa:
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/alcyon/Glendour's%20Japanese%20Helmets/Dre\
sser%20Jingasa/

Fighting Jingasa
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/alcyon/Glendour's%20Japanese%20Helmets/Gle\
ndour's%20Fighting%20Jingasa/

Momonari:
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/alcyon/Glendour's%20Japanese%20Helmets/Gle\
ndour's%20Momonar/

Saika Bachi Kabuto:
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/alcyon/Glendour's%20Japanese%20Helmets/Gle\
ndour's%20Saika%20Bachi%20Kabuto/

Dresser Jingasa: $125

Fighting Jingasa: $225

Momonari: $595

Seiki Bachi Kabuto (6 plate w flower): $750

Zunari w/seashell: $685

The Seiki-bachi found a new home at Pennsic, so it is unavailable.  I'll email
and ask if the sea shell is done, and if he could send me pics.

Glendour can be reached at TalonArmory@..., his website is
www.TalonArmory.com (I don't think any of these pics are on it).

Alcyoneus


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