Hi Simon -

Sorry I wasn't around the past day or two to advise on how to upload rug
images to the 'Files' section of the Rug Fanatics site at eGroups.com but I
see you managed it, and the images you have provided are excellent - for
those who have missed them they are listed and viewable at the following
url: http://www.egroups.com/files/rug-fanatics/

As far as Toodesh (or Tudesh, or even Tudeshk) goes, these are, as already
pointed out, Nain carpets of notably exceptional quality. They are regarded
by some as among the earliest of Nain production - which means from
1917-1928 (the *very* earliest period, examples of which are rare to the
point of non-existence) or, much more likely, from the period from 1928 -
1939, after the establishment of a second art school in Nain in 1928. This
is generally considered the great period of Nain production, when ustads
(carpet masters) like Habibian and others first began, and created their
best work.

Shirin Souresrafil in his Persian-published book 'Na'in Carpet' (Farhangan
Publications, Tehran 1997) says that the rugs of Tudesh have been among the
most outstanding products of the Nain villages from the start of carpet
making in the town. Your photos would tie in with a dating to the 1930's
period, in which case they fall within the first Nain period referred to by
Edwards in 'The Persian Carpet' (London 1953) page 314, when a basic quality
of 22 x 22 knots to the inch (484 per square inch) made these early Nains
among the finest Persian carpets of this great period of Persian workshop
creativity (i.e. approx 1928-1945). As other top items of this period - i.e.
those made for the new rich of Reza Pahlavi's reign, not for export, and
represented at their peak by certain works from Tehran and Qum that rivalled
many sixteenth and seventeenth century Safavid court carpets in opulence and
purity - achieved considerably higher knot counts in both silk and silk/wool
constructions, and as I have seen two or three Habibians from this time with
counts in the 25 x 25 knots per inch range, your figure of 725-775 knots per
square inch is not inconceivable, although I must agree with Barry O'Connell
that it seems a tad on the high side, and your photo of the back of your
piece does not look anything like this level of quality (which is
approaching that of the finest 'real' Serafian Isfahans of 1000 knots per
sq. inch, where you can hardly see the knots at all from the back, and need
a *very* strong loop to count them!)

From your photos it also looks as though the whole of one end of the piece
is discoloured in some way - as though it had been burnt or smoked, or an
extremely large dog had been caught short, or was overcome by its beauty,
while crossing its glittering silk-accented surface. I guess that is the
tea-staining you mention, which I thought originally might just be the
tea-staining of the fringes which has for long been used to give a rug a
little age, or even to support the genuine age of a piece where the fringe
is so pristine that your average customer will never accept it is forty or
fifty years old, even though it is. Such extensive discolouration in your
rug is obviously a major defect, detracting from the beauty of the piece as
much as it will undermine its value. It looks like that kind of
discolouration that no cleaning however skilful can remove, although there
may be one or two people (in the world) who have the skill to minimise it,
but I think the cost would be prohibitive even with a carpet of the
potential value (in good condition) of yours. The border design I thought
looked especially well-formed, and supported attribution to the high quality
pre World War 2 Nains, although the colour is perhaps a bit dull -
especially compared to some Habibians of this era, which are truly radiant,
and a far cry from the drab Nains of today (although few of those are actual
Nains insofar as they are made elsewhere)

Anyway, thanks very much for posting this interesting piece - the more
information we can get about the top calibre Persian workshop carpets of the
1930-45 period, the better, as it remains among the most under-rated (or
unrecognised) periods of Persian carpet history, while also being among the
most fascinating and, IMHO, most important of them all.
--
Iain Stewart
World Rugs Webmaster <mailto:webmaster@...>
and Rug Fanatics Moderator

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With Kindest Regards
Iain Stewart

44 Florence Road, London SE14 6TW
Telephone: +44 (0)20 8692 5345 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7691 7097


-----Original Message-----
From: simon [mailto:sachst@...]
Sent: 09 January 2001 03:50
To: rug-fanatics@egroups.com
Subject: [rug-fanatics] Re: Toodesh(?) Rug


--- In rug-fanatics@egroups.com, "simon " <sachst@t...> wrote:
> I have a carpet recently identified to me by a former resident of
the
> region as a Toodesh. It is about 5x8, and at first glance, appears
to
> be a rather plain open-field, herati design with a small medallion
> and two small anchors. It is Kork with very heavy use of silk, with
> many of the vines executed entirely in silk. Pile is cut very
short,
> about 3/16 of an inch. Foundation is cotton. In sample areas, the
> fineness ranges from a low of about 725 pksi to a high of about
775.
> I was told vintage is about 1920-1930, supported by the fact that
it
> has unfortunately been tea-stained, we believe, a practice popular
> then in the US. Field was originally an off-ivory. For all my
> life,I would have sworn this thing was an old Isfahan. Would
> appreciate any comments as to provenence, history, possible
> correctness of identification, etc. This is one I need an
education on. Thanks.

Thanks-If someone will tell me how, I will attach photos. The
details of construction I gave are accurate, with the addition that
persian knots are used, with observed densities of from 26x27 to
27x28. In remembering the conversation, the possibility of tea-
staining was advanced, but not specified. If anything, the pile is
shorter than 3/16, and much of what was taken as staining I believe
to be extremely subtle color variations in color to express the vines
between silk flowers. The coloration is highly variable, both in the
wool and silk, based on lighting, presenting a clear dark and light
direction. It is as if the weaver wanted to express a gold, darker
aspect from one direction and a lighter, silvery aspect from the
other. Supposedly, Toodesch is in the area of Nain, and rug
production declined or died out before the war, or advent of
extensive weaving in Nain. This Iranian acquaintance stated they are
distinguishable from Isfahans primarily in their fineness relative to
the prewar period, and rarely seen outside of the personal
collections of dealers in the area. He has, incidently, no vested
interest in this piece-he happened to be in another dealer's shop and
was interested in the piece. Once again-tell me how and I'll post
pictures. Thanks