Gary,
On the one hand, I respect your desire for direct revelation from the heavens on such matters, in the form of angels or even God himself appearing, giving explicit instructions, laying on hands for proper ordinations, and such. I too believe that such can and will (and does) happen. And when it happens on the level you are talking about, then what comes as a result will be far more glorious than what we have going right now. No doubt about that. I look forward to such a time too.
Meanwhile, do we just sit back do nothing along these lines until such time comes? Are we stepping beyond our bounds to presume to set forth to work toward these ends now?
It is my strong belief that what we are doing now is not only justified in the eyes of God, but that it should have happened long before this time. Gregory Williams is saying that it did happen 2000 years ago by the early Christians, and he does have some very interesting insights to give us from this perspective of his.
Indeed, it has been the Christians' lack of setting forth a godly solution to the question of world government that has enabled the beast to gain ascendancy. The Christians are more responsible for the success of the beast than those overtly promoting it, because the Christians did not sufficiently oppose it, nor did they present a viable alternative. This is the Christian rejection of Christ in our time that parallels the Jewish rejection of Christ at the time of his first coming. The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.
So again, I repeat what I have said before. Not only are we justified in doing what we are doing, but it has been precisely the lack of doing this sooner that has enable the beast to get above us.
Joseph did not get his answers until he went to the Lord with his questions.
We are presenting the Lord our questions, and it is my faith that he will answer us.
We do our part, he does his.
Those sitting on their duffs on this matter, waiting for him to make the first move are going to be disappointed.
Sterling
----- Original Message -----From: gary cliftonSent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:31 AMSubject: RE: [rs_public] proposed vote: Nominee RatificationsI have observed the process and general directions , votes of the rssicc egroup and have concluded that I do not fit in the structured premises of this organization. I believe in inspiration , consensus but having so few determining so early the course that God would have outlined causes me problems .Perhaps, that is my problem. Have you got together to define your opinion of what you think government should be and so want to create your opinion, Then your organization is not God's project. What vision of America do you have? Are the states still in existance. Do the counties and city governments still exist? or as suggested riots and city verse city, state verse state, family verse family run their course already.Look at what has started in Argentine yesterday with only 18% unemployment ..RIOTS- LOOTING-- Killing.. cast your eyes on 40% to 60% unemployment and think you can replace the current government . The State and National government will be set in order but not by us substituting our method of government.Already voted on and somehow forced on others because a few behind closed doors decided it. Hold on to constitutional principles and out of the choas will arise the order. In small Hamlets ( places of refuge) where in common consent and with devinely called leaders physically appointed by God will the constitution be saved.In the Church we collect donation of tithing to do the work of the Lord? Here you mandate fees to sustain a few that choose to work fulltime at their passion. I worked 8 hours a night doing Bible Codes for a year. I then worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week all summer to bring in a mine to benefit all mankind. I drove 735 miles a weekend for 5months to work an 8 hour shift to the site and then paid for R.V. rental spot and assisted financially in helping those that came to assist in the dig. At no time did I feel that others should fund this passion. The treasure was its gift to the Lord.I have several friends or persons who feel the spirit to write or put information out to the general population according to the spirit. Those that freely give the material away seem to have a greater message than those that calculate the cost that they must be reimburst. If they say anything at all about money , it usually is ,let the spirit guide you in whether you would like to give a donation to the cause. I personally feel inspired to work my mine that is a prelude to bring in the Golden Ensign and the Relief MIne missions that are to assist in the bring in of the Kingdom financially and temporally, and those that labor spiritually.It will not be designed by votes nor based on money collected but on the free will agency of those that chose to get involved and those who God extends a call to. Those calls will not be made solely on my personal desire but actual literal extentions from heaven, By the laying on of hands from the other side of the vail to this side . I will not presume to know who is or isn't called to the work but God will.I find the work that is going on in your area interesting.... good HOMEWORK practice. Much like building a house by voted consensus of the builders but lacking the devine guidance of the future owner of the house. God has set certain limits and guidance on the future structure of government . He has not revealed the complete order nor has he assigned by vote his leaders. They will be called and set apart through his channel by direct appointment at the time of setting in order. Joseph, who was called in this dispensation couldn't do it, having the authority . How can man substitute for the lack of authority and do it, then expect God be bound by their efforts?. Should He be not allowed to put it together his way?.I understand that constitutional government will prevail in the Kingdom of God regardless of how man attempts to design or to destroy it. It will be a Theocracy. A council of 50 called of God. Not chosen of themselves. Not all Mormons or Protestants, or Catholics. But wise men saved and called before this world was to this very calling. They will be a living Constitution with Christ at their Head.The collapse of America is written and soon. The Establishment of the Kingdom is soon and But it will be on God's terms . Shortly there will be another Horrible event that will make the twin towers attack look like a sunday school picnic. This event will start the fast decline of government and economics as we know them. Then look for the start of his Kingdom.I do not Know whether all of you or I are called to that work of establishing the government of the Kingdom. But time will tell and God will reveal. But for now I need to seperate from the direction of your labors as the shoe doesn't fit. Yours sincerely, Gary W. Clifton-----Original Message-----
From: Sterling D. Allan [mailto:sterlingda@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:53 PM
To: Remnant Saints Inter-Continental Congress egroup (public)
Subject: [rs_public] proposed vote: Nominee RatificationsPlease provide input on the following proposed ballot prior to it's being presented officially for a vote.Proposed duration of vote: 48 hours.========BEGIN PROPOSED BALLOT========
(not yet active, votes do not count yet)HONORARY MEMBERS:
The following individuals shall be approved as 'honorary members' of Remnant Saints Inter-Continental Congress as recently defined by the guild atThese individuals have accepted their nomination to serve as founding members of Remnant Saints Inter-Continental Congress, but have not been active participants in the guild (at least not recently). However, "they bring dignity to the organization by virtue of the work done in their particular area of specialty, devoting essentially a full-time effort to their particular ministry and/or organization(s), having made a distinguished name for themselves among patriots in doing so."Dr. Leonard G. Horowitz of Tetrahedron.org J.J. Johnson of SierraTimes.com Alex Jones of Infowars.com Richard Mack of Sheriff Mack Geoff Metcalf, WND Radio Host David John Oates of ReverseSpeech.com Cathy O'Brien of TranceFormation of America Mark Phillips of TranceFormation of America
(1) Approve all of the above.
[ ] Yes[ ] No
Comment (please specify):(2) If there are any 'no' votes specified, then they will individually be presented by silent ballot via the YahooGroups poll feature.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:(3) This vote (#1 above) secures these individuals as members of the guild, pending their individual acceptance of the final terms of membership.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:
HONORARY-ACTIVE MEMBERSThere are other nominees in the guild that merit "honorary member" distinction but who are currently "active" participants (which is preferable). At such time as one of these should need or desire to cut back in their level of activity, they may do so for the above stated reasons, and still maintain their membership in the guild. They are as follows:
- Joseph (Joe) Eldred of God Bless America
- Christopher Hansen of Nevada Jail-4-Judges (see bio)
- Todd Jumper (Enoch Theos) of www.eaglehost.com
- Dennis P. Slatton of Patriot Alliance and United America Party
- H.J. Springer of CentrexNews.com
- Gregory Thomas. Williams of The Ekklesia Church
(4) Approve all of the above.
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
Comment (please specify):(5) If there are any 'no' votes specified, then they will individually be presented by silent ballot via the YahooGroups poll feature.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:(6) This vote (#4 above) secures these individuals as members of the guild, pending their acceptance of the final terms of membership.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:ACTIVE MEMBERS
The following individuals have accepted their nomination to serve as founding members of Remnant Saints Inter-Continental Congress and have been active participants in its development, hence warrant official approval of their nomination.Susan Carter of Hope and Healing Ministries Michel Guilas of PartiConstitutionnel.net (English) Patrick O'Connell of tapa-chemtrails egroup (see: announcement of nomination) Thomas Edward Rice of Ex Nihilo Douglas Schell of Candidate for Governor of NC, 2000 Laura Shortridge (website) (7) Approve all of the above.
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
Comment (please specify):(8) If there are any 'no' votes specified, then they will individually be presented by silent ballot via the YahooGroups poll feature.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:(9) This vote (#7 above) secures these individuals as members of the guild, pending their acceptance of the final terms of membership.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:INACTIVE MEMBERS
According to the recent guild vote, if a person is not an honorary member, then their qualifications for the guild need to come through active participation. The following individuals have accepted their nomination but have not been active in their participation in the guild, and hence will be removed from the consideration for founding membership unless they become active forthwith.
- Albert V. Burns of the John Birch Society
- David Cleveland (website)
- Steven Montgomery of The Perfect Law of Liberty
- Marija Rukavina of PartiConstitutionnel.net (English)
(10) Sustain the removal of these individuals if they do not become active by the time the founding is complete, or if they do not state their commitment to do so.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:(11) If there are any 'no' votes specified for question #10, then the will be presented by silent ballot via the YahooGroups poll feature at or near the time of the final founding measures.[ ] Yes[ ] NoComment:NEW MEMBERS
The following nominees are too new to have been able to show whether they qualify as "active" or not. A vote on the official acceptance of their nomination will come at a later date.[ ] Agree, give them more time[ ] Disagree, (please specify)Were any of the ballot items ambiguously worded?
Please specify:
========END OF PROPOSED BALLOT========ballot created by SDA Dec. 19, 2001presented for preview Dec. 19, 2001http://www.remnantsaints.com/private/guild1/voting/
RSLG Votes Index: current, pending, results, archive
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REMNANT SAINTS INTERCONTINENTAL CONGRESS
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http://www.remnantsaints.com/InterContinentalCongress/
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REMNANT SAINTS INTERCONTINENTAL CONGRESS
"For the government of God on Earth"
http://www.remnantsaints.com/InterContinentalCongress/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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