Hi Joanne, and Rosenet,

> If there is a list moderator, please excuse my not knowing who
> has accepted this assignment. If not, may I suggest that this
> would be a good juncture for one to post to the list regarding
> protocol.

There is no formal list moderator, as of now. I have taken on the
responsibility of maintaining the automated list through egroups, but I've
not been voted in as moderator or any such thing, and I doubt I would
be willing to take on that job. For now, responsibility for the list is
distributed throughout its members.

Until fairly recently, the tone of the list was entirely civil and there was
no need for a moderator--most people here were friends and some knew each
other personally. But I think the only way for a list to stay that way is
when it is by invitation-only, as Rosenet once was. Now it's open to the
public, and the floodgates are open. I've been on the internet a long time,
and this isn't by far the first time I've seen this happen.

> Much harm can result from continuing the kind of negative
> interchanges which have occurred recently.

I very much agree. For myself, I've chosen to stop responding to those
interchanges. No one I've talked to is happy about what's happening here.

I would suggest voting in a formal moderator for this list. For now, we can
only effect changes through general consensus.

In fellowship,
Suzanne

--
http://www.igs.net/~tril/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s-: a-- C++$ ULHOIS+++$>++++ P+++ L++ E+ W+++(--)$ N++(+) !o K++ w---()
!O M-- V-- PS+@ PE@ Y+() PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R !tv b++@ DI++ D--- G++ e++* h---
r++>+++ x*?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Dear Friends:

If there is a list moderator, please excuse my not knowing who
has accepted this assignment. If not, may I suggest that this
would be a good juncture for one to post to the list regarding
protocol.

Much harm can result from continuing the kind of negative
interchanges which have occurred recently.

In fellowship,
Joanne
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Jean, you are a total disappointment! Obviously, I underestimated your
ability to write some really neat posts, which could contribute to
this forum in a positive way. Instead you came up with another sorry
judgmental post, about a subject which was over and done with, ages
ago. I'd bet your Higher Self was going bananas when you were writing
it, and kept sending messages to your brain not to do it.
Unfortunately your lower self won, and you went ahead and clicked on
the send button. C'est la vie! Oh well, maybe you had a rough day, or
maybe you responded to some bad aspect in your chart. Whatever it is,
you need to chill, and stop worrying about my inner self, my three
fingers and my retrospection, and START concerning yourself with your
own inner self, your own three fingers pointing at you, your own
retrospection, and your own subconscious needs.

In loving fellowship,

DeepThinker


---Jean  wrote:
>
> Deep Thinker,
>
> Think deeper before you criticize others and
> remember : "When you point the finger at someone
> there are three fingers pointing back at you !"
> Others reflect outwardly a part of your inner self
> so, when something ticks you off, ask yourself :
> "what is it that needs changing in you ?" (pointing
> the three fingers at yourself first) ... for the
> message came from within yourself through the
> voice of others ... to help you find an answer to
> your own subconscious needs ...
>
> Sweet dreams after retrospection ...
>
> Jean






______________________________________________________________________
2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9%
NextCard Internet VISA has a great introductory APR.
Customers with good credit are eligible for this special rate.
No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great rate for Internet customers!
http://ads.egroups.com/click/60/1/nextcard

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

---curious_seeker wrote:

>I have been monitoring the messages for awhile and not >responding...

>When you first threw in the gauntlet over the Noah's >ark issue I
thought that you were either highly >intelligent (trying to stir up
the group) or extremely >closed minded and arrogant.
>
>Intelligence is not totally cerebral it also includes >the emotional
quotient.  The people who are discussing >the Rosicrucian ideals are
just that. They seem to be >reaching out to make friends more than to
have deep >philosophical discussions.
>
>It seems to me that if you are seeking true >philosophical
penetrating expanding thought you
>should try your local university.

Hmmm...another self-appointed righteous, offering free criticism/sorry
advice...Geez, you guys are like weeds!  Anyway, I'm not sure you
realize where you read my post on Noah's Ark, but I posted it in the
Rosenet list, NOT in alt.mentally-impaired.

I think you are a bit out of line, not only by insulting me, but by
inferring that the people in this list are not the university type,
and can't handle anything above casual conversation. I'm glad you came
out of your lurking dark corner, because you need to be reminded that
this is a private forum for the Students and Probationers of the
Rosicrucian Teachings, as brought forth by Max Heindel, to discuss and
exchange thoughts and ideas about them.  Now, everyone here is also
free to write posts seeking friendships, or engage in idle chat, but
the same freedom applies to those others who want to discuss the
Teachings, learn more about them, and improve their spiritual lives,
without having to worry about being scorned for that.

If your mental and emotional level fall short of such deep
discussions, then you are welcome to post something which better fits
your capabilities, or you can post in other news groups like
alt.knitting, alt.gardening, alt.nosepicking, etc.

All intelligent responses are welcome (emphasis on INTELLIGENT). All
other responses will be forwarded to the Ringling Bros Headquarters,
for proper handling.

In loving fellowship,

DeepThinker





------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

I am currently receiving eGroups eMail at:  Johnny@...
Please delete this address from eGroups.

The address I wish to receive eGroups eMail is, if you please, is
JohnnyP848@....


May the Roses Bloom Upon Your Cross!
JP

______________________________________________________________________
2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9%
NextCard Internet VISA has a great introductory APR.
Customers with good credit are eligible for this special rate.
No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great rate for Internet customers!
http://ads.egroups.com/click/60/1/nextcard

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Deep Thinker,

Think deeper before you criticize others and
remember : "When you point the finger at someone
there are three fingers pointing back at you !"
Others reflect outwardly a part of your inner self
so, when something ticks you off, ask yourself :
"what is it that needs changing in you ?" (pointing
the three fingers at yourself first) ... for the
message came from within yourself through the
voice of others ... to help you find an answer to
your own subconscious needs ...

Sweet dreams after retrospection ...

Jean

>---Suzanne Skinner  wrote:
>
>>And it's not strictly my place to reply to something >not meant for
>me. But I feel that I have to.
>
>Tsk, tsk. Oh, Suzanne...Suzanne...you did it again...{sigh}...went
>with your feelings rather than your mind. It's so disappointing,
>because I thought you had one of the keenest minds in here. Instead
>you chose to waste your precious time by replying to something that is
>none of your business, just like you acknowledged.
>
>
>>A true loving person is honest with those he/she cares >about,
>instead ofjust telling them what will be >pleasant to hear. Love means
>wanting someone to >fulfill their potential.
>
>Then, according to your statement when I say, you are nosy and need to
>mind your own business, I'm actually displaying true love and wanting
>you to fulfill your potential?  Cool!
>
>Actually, someone else here warned me this group prefers lite
>conversation, and suggested I should not reply to any attacks I'd get.
>Maybe that person was right, but still is disappointing that a group
>of forty plus students of the Rosicrucian teachings, have very little
>to say to each other, except an occasional criticism from a few,
>disguised as a "message of love". Imagine being in a room with forty
>other persons, and nobody is talking to anybody else. Then a new
>person comes in and starts a conversation, immediately someone else
>says the new person is egotistical and authoritarian, but nobody else
>says a word about that. Now, when the new person points out someone
>else's inaccuracies, then a few claim that's unloving, confrontational
>and totally wrong. Yeah, right!
>
>Perhaps things would be different if instead talking about Noah's Ark
>in my first post, I  would've said something like this:
>
>"Hi everyone! I'm Deep Fluff. I'm new in here but I already can feel
>the tremendous cosmic love which flows from the hearts of a selected
>few in here. I'm so happy! If y'all were here with me, I'd hug you and
>squeeeeeze you, and sit down and chat with y'all about all kind of
>neat things and stuff like that, while we smile and express our love
>for each other, and...incidentally, can anyone here give me some hints
>on how to get rid of my poodle's worms? Well, y'all be good and keep
>loving like that always. Bye"
>
>Geez, I hate to even think that would've gotten forty plus responses.
>
>Anyway, since you missed quoting the last statement of my post to
>John, allow me to reprint it again in here with the hope it will sink
>in this time, so we can get past this swampy situation and move on to
>better things, if that is possible.
>
>"However, I hope this will totally and forever conclude the matter at
>hand, so we can move onto better things, thus I thank you ALL in
>advance for your possible cooperation."
>
>All intelligent responses are welcome (emphasis on "intelligent").
>
>Always in fellowship,
>
>DeepThinker
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hi RoseNet Friends!

Following up on Richard's Comment on Cosmological Timing, it seems
that these contradictions of between certainty and faith seem to be
out of balance in the physical realm.  In the dense world, certainty
seems to take the lead.  Quantum mechanics at least shows that small
particles have greater uncertainty than bigger particles.

Max Heindel mentions that in the desire world it is easier to be
fooled because there is more change there than over here.  He mentions
the importance of discrimination to guide ourselves right over there.
To me discrimination needs a set of standards to be used properly (it
belongs to the mercury conscience).   Yet we need faith also.  We must
balance both perfectly.  This boils down to the saying of the old west
that says "Be sure you're right, then go right ahead!"

Be sure you're right means that hey stop and scrutinize as much as you
can.  Do not leave any question out and any doubt cleared up.  Once
everything was cleared up then go all the way and do not think any
more.

This means to me that faith is needed in the end to complete the
journey.  We really never were certain that the trip we started will
take us exactly where we wanted but without faith we will never get
anywhere either, because we will be thinking forever if we were right
in the first place.  So This is it!


With Love and friendship



==
**************************************
* Pedro Melo                         *
* email: petermelon@...        *
*                                    *
*        Life is Awesome!            *
*        Viva la Vida!               *
**************************************------------------------------------------\
------------------------------
Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hello,


Several weeks ago DeepThinker brought up an issue on time. Last week Kirk
brought it up again  in a different form. So, it seems to be on our minds and
needs discussion. It is a fascinating subject but very difficult and I doubt
that I will have much to say on the subject that will be of much help to
anyone except to, perhaps, stir up more thought on the issue.

The issue is cosmological timing as in "When did these things occur?" as
DeepThinker broached it or as in "How old is the universe?" as Kirk put it.

Unfortunately this is one of the most secret parts of mystical cosmology. I am
not widely read in modern mysticism but every writer on the subject that I have
read and that I respect does not indicate when the things in the cosmology
occurred in terms that we can understand.

Most writers do not outright mention secrecy and those that do don't say why.
Mme. Blavatsky went so far as to intimiate that it would be dangerous knowledge
in our hands but then she felt that way even about simple spiritual exercises
also. Mme Blavatsky also said that the subject of cosmological timing was so
secret that even the reasons for secrecy had to be kept secret.

When writers do give times or means to discover the times they are almost
unbelieveable in terms of the way we see things in the late 20th century, or the
hints are so difficult that they can't be deciphered. A case of the former is
when Max Heindel and A.P. Sinnet both say that the great pyramid  (Cheops) is
250,000 years old. This is a factor of 10 greater than modern anthropology,
using various age dating techniques, will consider. A case of the later is when
Rudolf Steiner in his lectures on astronomy gave a hint as to how the current
revolutions of the planets we see in orbit are tied in with some level of
sub-revolution in the Earth Period in mystical cosmology. Paul Allen, a
british  mathematician, and several astronomers spent years on the problem and
couldn't get anywhere with it.

It seems to me that there are at least two kinds of secrecy. One kind is
protective, meaning that we could be dangerous to ourselves or others with our
current lack of character and moral development if we had knowledge of this kind
of secret. An example of this kind of misuse of knowledge is implied in the
occult legend about why the island sometimes called Poseidonis (and which some
folks mistakenly call Atlantis) had to be submerged. The claim is made that the
people living there (Some of whom were apparently giants and remants of a bygone
era) were trying an experiment to magically control the movements of the moon to
change the timing of destiny to make it favorable to them. [I don't know if I
believe this and so I suspend judgement]. A more obvious example would be a
knowledge of magical secrets with  the inability to refrain from using
them selfishly.

A second kind of secrecy is de facto because of the limitations of our waking
consciousness---things are secret because we are not conscious enough to know
them or that we are using the wrong kind of knowledge to understand them. I
believe this is the most common form of secrecy.

I believe, in part, that we can't understand cosmological timing because we
don't have the right kind of consciousness to do so. This is probably because
our concept of time is wrong and because we are locked into materialism and
can't get beyond it.

Kirk's question provides a good illustration. The reason why I can't accept the
findings of modern materialistic cosmology that the universe is 13,000,000,000
years old is that modern materialism only considers the material plane as
reality while mysticism claims that the material plane has only been around
since the beginning of the Earth Period which is a relatively brief span in the
life of our solar cosmos to say nothing of the vast ammount of time in the
higher cosmic planes beyound the Author of our solar system.

There is a temptation to want to think that the Big Bang of materialism is the
same of the Word or the cosmic Fiat mentioned in the early pages of Part 2 of
the Cosmo Conception but I can't by any means accept that no matter how I try.
The difference between the solids, liquids and gases of the chemical region of
the physical world and the 1st cosmic plane is vast beyond my comprehension
(and that of Max as well, if I read correctly). Even if one wanted to throw in
the ethers as being the same as electromagnetism [I definitely don't], the
addition is negligible.

At this point a converse question or way of stating the issue usually comes to
mind. A good example of this kind of converse question would be: If materialism
isn't measuring the age of the cosmos because it is seeing only a tiny part of
the cosmos (the part with the most limitation and illusion and the part farthest
in time and representation from the start and the creative initent) what is it
measuring?

I have never arrived at an answer that is acceptable to me. I have speculated
that materialism may be measuring from the point when the physical plane
(chemical and etheric) precipitated from the Desire world. This would assume
that the original cosmic Word on the 1st cosmic plane is in analogy (as above,
so below...) reproduced in some form on every plane and world down the line.
This would mean many, many recreations on many levels as we pass into and out of
the various planes again and again. While this view is not completely
unpalitable to me, it does not get the seal of approval from the intuition, at
least not yet.

I have speculated that perhaps all of the cosmic planes and worlds were created
and sustained from the beginning and that they become organized when the periods
, revolutions and globes are foccused into them and that what materialism is
measuring IS the original Word as it was impressed on the physical plane as it
is seen according to how the globes are foccussed into it by the God of our
solar manifestation. This differs too greatly from the reports of Max and other
initiate seers to allow me to have much faith in it. Besides it would mean that
the Supreme Being would be sustaining many planes that are not in use most of
the time which would seem a terrible waste. It seems so pretty and so much more
efficient to cogeal the planes cotaneously with the creation, i.e. the globes
and such.

A third speculation is that the orgininal Word is impressed right into the
Cosmic Root Substance and that any plane or world congealed out of the Cosmic
Root Substance would bear the stamp of the original impression as seen by the
way (the laws) that plane or world was manifest. This would mean that
materialistic cosmology would be measuring the laws of the physical plane as
they relate to the original impression in the Cosmic Root Substance which is not
the same thing as measuring the age of the universe itself. Of course, their
measurements are only a shadow because the are entropic, depending on the
measurement proton decay and other decays, break-downs and other froms of death
or entropy. The jury is still out on this speculation.

I have other speculatons of this sort though I doubt whether they are much good
except for mental exercise and mind opening. They may help one get different
takes on the subject but they are only speculations. I would appreciate feedback
of any kind because when I get into things so mentally it seems to block
intuition and it often takes a long time to see though my falacies.

DeepThinker brings up a different side of the timing problem and presents us
with a real dilemma as to how to present the CosmoConception to the world of
science without being dogmatic or seeming foolish.

Many of the conceptions of materialistic science are strikingly different than
ours and they feel they have the evidence and it is up to us to back up our
claims with similar evidence---seership is not considered evidence even though
it involves the Great Experiment which they can perform if they wish. For
example, most astronomers don't believe the Moon was thrown off from the Earth
(though it is a possibility whose scenario would be much like Max's) because
the\
evidence seems to imply one of several other scenaria. Most anthropologists and
geologists see no evidence whatsoever of gill-breathing atlanteans or of a time
when the atmosphere of the Earth was think and foggy like that of Venus and they
laugh at us if we bring it up with no facts or fossils or skeletons---it does
strike me as rather strange that none has been found even though I believe the
mystics. According to the most recent Scientific American, materialistic science
seems to think that most of the water in the oceans came from captured
comets---this thesis does not necessarily contradict a nebular-type hypothesis
such as that of Max but it does disagree to some extent with Max's description.
These are merely a few examples of differences, the full list would fill a book
which is not suitable for rosenet.

Again, when considering the question of timing, it seems right to question
science as they question mysticism. The converse question that I ask is "Are
the methods of science for dating or timing the past of the earth or the
universe correct?"  As soon as this is asked and the two outlooks are placed
side by side one thing jumps out. The view of materialist science is one of
constancy, the laws of nature are constant throughout time. On the other hand,
the view of mysticism is that the cosmos is constantly changing, sometimes
gradually and sometimes dramatically---in mystic cosmology there will even be
a time with no gravity because there will be no physical plane. Material science
measures long and short range cosmic time in terms of decay. For example one
of the things used in measuring the age of the universe is proton decay rate and
more short term time is determined by radio-active decay as in carbon dating.
In either case it is adamantly held that these rates are constant (I would call
them cosmological constants but there is already such a term which is a
fudge-factor used in Einsteinian astro-physics). The reason for this adamancy
is understandable: without it science would have nothing to stand on because
nothing would have any certainty and science needs certainty---certainty is
important to study any plane. [Personally, I like the idea of such uncertainty
because it is great for promoting faith.] With this constancy science has done
some wonderful things and it does give on a stable universe to live in
but is it true?

This brings up the very difficult issue mentioned earlier. Materialistic science
has every reason to see things as it does because if one only uses information
from the senses and the brain-mind consciousness, it has no other choice.
Without intuition or some other kind of experience that goes beyond the
limitations of the material world as we experience it now, one cannot see things
any differently except as fantasy. Max talks about the difference of perspective
between being in the body and out, mentioning that whenever the transition is
made either way it is uncomfortable until one gets used to it. We (speaking for
myself) are in the body and when we are inside we see things from that
perspective until we can get beyond it, get outside of it. There are many
examples in science were things appear one way from one perspective and another
from another perspective but that the whole of science my be that way has yet to
dawn on most scientists.

So it may be that radio-active decay may vary and be faster or slower as we are
passing into and out of the dense physical world and much of age dating may be
incorrect in the long run. Obviously, in the short run it has proven exceedingly
consant as in cesium clocks. However, there is no way to determine that from
within the material experience without an external reference. Personally, it
seems meaningless (even from the mystical viewpoint) to think of the age of the
universe in terms of years when a much different kind of consiciousness of time
is called for.

It seems almost paradoxical how the justaposition results in both greater
certainty and gerater uncertainty. I like the uncertainty better because it
promotes greater faith and the wonder of how God (spirit) and the truth is
always different (the Bible and the Cosmo are new books at every reading) is
very appealing to me though I must confess the desire for constancy is present
also.

In any case, this outlook always give me more incentive to try to grow so that I
can get outside of materialism to see exactly when and how things happened and
to what end. In short, our life and our exercises are probably more important
than the study of science to attain to that end though I would certainly not
deter anyone from studying science, including me.

I know this is long and probably unclear but it does leave plenty of opening for
discussion and other outlooks.

With love and friendship,

Richard
______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

John:

Long ago I purchased the audio cassettes of Alexander Scourby reading the
Holy Bible.  I was pleasantly surprised to find this on the Web for anyone
to use.

We are Esoteric Aspirants, and, as such, we sometimes overlook the lessons
to be learned from Exoteric sources, such as from the Holy Bible.

I have some beliefs about the Holy Bible I feel are true.  The English
language flourished in the New World when the religious persecution of the
Old World was thrown off and the Holy Bible could be read by everyone:
  much like Initiation open to whomsoever would do the spiritual work
necessary, and not only to the chosed few.  Look at the wonderfully
explicit language we have here in America compared to the, comparatively
speaking, English language of the Old World:  I feel this is due to the
widespread use of the Holy Bible.

As Aspirants to the Spiritual Life, we are given by the Recording Angels
exactly what we need for our development.  We who would study the Holy
Bible from an OCCULT perspective would do well to know the Holy Bible from
ANY perspective beforehand.
The Holy Bible is integral to personal autonomy on every level:  Christian
Self-Government is pivotal and essential to Esoteric, individuated
responsibility.

And this self-government is in the Holy Bible, occultly interpreted.

May the Roses Bloom Upon Your Cross!

JP


-----Original Message-----
From: John Hempstead [SMTP:johempstead@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 12:18 PM
To: johnny@...
Cc: 'rosenet@egroups.com'
Subject: [rosenet] Re: The "Streaming" Bible

Johnny:

Thanks for sending the web link for the "Streaming" Bible.  It contains a
powerful reading and
is a good resource to add to a bookmark or web link.

John

johnny wrote:

> Beloved Friends:
>
> http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html
>
> is Alexander Scourby's reading of the Holy Bible.
>
> You need to have the FREE Real G2 Player to hear this through your sound
card and speakers.
>
> May the Roses Bloom Upon Your Cross!
> JP
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
> at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9%
NextCard Internet VISA has a great introductory APR.
Customers with good credit are eligible for this special rate.
No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great rate for Internet customers!
http://ads.egroups.com/click/60/1/nextcard

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ZZZXXXZZ\
Z
Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Johnny:

Thanks for sending the web link for the "Streaming" Bible.  It contains a
powerful reading and
is a good resource to add to a bookmark or web link.

John

johnny wrote:

> Beloved Friends:
>
> http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html
>
> is Alexander Scourby's reading of the Holy Bible.
>
> You need to have the FREE Real G2 Player to hear this through your sound card
and speakers.
>
> May the Roses Bloom Upon Your Cross!
> JP
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
> at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.



------------------------------------------------------------------------ZZZXXXZZ\
Z
Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Beloved Friends:

http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

is Alexander Scourby's reading of the Holy Bible.

You need to have the FREE Real G2 Player to hear this through your sound card
and speakers.


May the Roses Bloom Upon Your Cross!
JP

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

If the desire body is checked, it is like a moving car with the driver's
hand off the steering wheel.  Our horoscopes show our strengths and areas to
improve on.  The squares in our chart merely tell us the areas to watch out
for in our daily lives.  They are not restrictions they are wonderful
opportunities.  Do not let the planets tell you what you are.  They are
telling you could become either for better or for worse.  From experience,
it is always easy to blame the position of the planets for our own inability
to change.  When find your thoughts and/or your senses sway to the
unwarranted objects always rely on your intuition (the heart).  It will set
you straight.  Dancing, reading, keeping the hand and the mind busy, surely
helps.  But the real reward lies in confronting the object the seem to hold
you back, with a positive attitude that serves to whole without the benefit
of self.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pedro Melo [mailto:petermelon@...]
Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 7:51 PM
To: rosenet@egroups.com
Subject: [rosenet] Re: [Rosenet] The snares of the desire body ...


Hi Rosenet Friends!

John wrote about the shortcomings of a mars in the 1st house, but I
see a lot of good things there, such as quick initiative and a power
punch to get things done right away.  I know that it may get out of
control but I wish I had a little extra help from mars like John
because it is difficult for me to act quickly and be accurate.  I have
saturn rising je je je.  I have to focus harder on moving!

To help alleviate the bad temper of mars I know nothing better than a
sport or hard work.  I imagine mars as the fire inside a combustion
engine or the burning steam inside a locomotive.  They both need
something hard to push against all the time, so I recommend to have
something difficult and full of challenges but also rewarding and
productive in John's life.  This will take John a long way just like
the steam inside a locomotive did.


As for kirk's problems with venus rising I see that it may take much
more work than most people to develop charm and grace but certainly
not impossible.  Saturn just makes every thing harder than it is.  It
adds extra hurdles to jump.  It may be intimidating facing them but
over experience they can be overcome.  I recommend Kirk to take some
talent classes at a community college like dance or singing.  They
have helped me.  Once personal charm is developed life will get
easier!

With Love and Friendship,

Pedro

---John Hempstead <johempstead@...> wrote:
>
> Truly, the snares of the desire body are past finding out.  (Letters
to
> Students, No. 64, p.168.)
>
> Thanks to Pedro Melo and Robert Kruseman for your thoughtful
> contributions to the discussion of "changing lead to gold."  Max
> Heindel's warning in Letters to Students that "the snares of the
desire
> body are past finding out," is another aspect of the challenge of
> changing raw passion to altruistic love.  The lower nature seems never
> to cease trying to get us to deviate from living a life of service and
> soul growth.
>
> One of the desire body's most subtle tricks is to team up with the
> mind.  (It is subtle to us but very obvious to others.)  If it
succeeds,
> the mind becomes convinced that its job is to judge others.  Reason is
> quickly changed to rationalization.  For example, the mind sets its
own
> standards of what is intelligent or not.  If others respond in a way
> that our mind/desire body deems is unintelligent, then we feel
justified
> in attacking the other people, raking them over the coals for their
dumb
> and inappropriate comments.  Since we feel superior to the other
> (inexcusably stupid) person, then we feel above reproach for our own
> actions (that can be cutting and cruel).
>
> On the other hand, if our own mind yields to the promptings of the
> Higher Self, it blends reason with love.  Rather than working in
> competition against God, it works with God and becomes much more
> effective.  Rather than judging another as intelligent or stupid, it
> sees any response as an opportunity for growth.  By responding
> positively we honor our mutual heritage as children of God and both
> respondents grow.
>
> No matter how much faith I have in the principle that I should live
> every moment as God's child, my first house Mars gets me in situations
> where I am tempted to snap at others.  If I yield to that temptation,
> the tendency is strengthened.  If I am able to overlook perceived
> shortcomings and respond positively, invariably it is a rewarding
> experience.  I am interested in others' thoughts on this matter and
> experiences in changing Mars passion to love.
>
> In fellowship,
>
> John
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
==
**************************************
* Pedro Melo                         *
* email: petermelon@...        *
*                                    *
*        Life is Awesome!            *
*        Viva la Vida!               *
**************************************______________________________________
________________________________
2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9%
NextCard Internet VISA has a great introductory APR.
Customers with good credit are eligible for this special rate.
No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great rate for Internet customers!
http://www.nextcard.com/index.html?ref=eteegstr07

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

______________________________________________________________________
2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9%
NextCard Internet VISA has a great introductory APR.
Customers with good credit are eligible for this special rate.
No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great rate for Internet customers!
http://www.nextcard.com/index.html?ref=eteegstr07

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hi Rosenet Friends!

John wrote about the shortcomings of a mars in the 1st house, but I
see a lot of good things there, such as quick initiative and a power
punch to get things done right away.  I know that it may get out of
control but I wish I had a little extra help from mars like John
because it is difficult for me to act quickly and be accurate.  I have
saturn rising je je je.  I have to focus harder on moving!

To help alleviate the bad temper of mars I know nothing better than a
sport or hard work.  I imagine mars as the fire inside a combustion
engine or the burning steam inside a locomotive.  They both need
something hard to push against all the time, so I recommend to have
something difficult and full of challenges but also rewarding and
productive in John's life.  This will take John a long way just like
the steam inside a locomotive did.


As for kirk's problems with venus rising I see that it may take much
more work than most people to develop charm and grace but certainly
not impossible.  Saturn just makes every thing harder than it is.  It
adds extra hurdles to jump.  It may be intimidating facing them but
over experience they can be overcome.  I recommend Kirk to take some
talent classes at a community college like dance or singing.  They
have helped me.  Once personal charm is developed life will get
easier!

With Love and Friendship,

Pedro

---John Hempstead <johempstead@...> wrote:
>
> Truly, the snares of the desire body are past finding out.  (Letters
to
> Students, No. 64, p.168.)
>
> Thanks to Pedro Melo and Robert Kruseman for your thoughtful
> contributions to the discussion of "changing lead to gold."  Max
> Heindel's warning in Letters to Students that "the snares of the
desire
> body are past finding out," is another aspect of the challenge of
> changing raw passion to altruistic love.  The lower nature seems never
> to cease trying to get us to deviate from living a life of service and
> soul growth.
>
> One of the desire body's most subtle tricks is to team up with the
> mind.  (It is subtle to us but very obvious to others.)  If it
succeeds,
> the mind becomes convinced that its job is to judge others.  Reason is
> quickly changed to rationalization.  For example, the mind sets its
own
> standards of what is intelligent or not.  If others respond in a way
> that our mind/desire body deems is unintelligent, then we feel
justified
> in attacking the other people, raking them over the coals for their
dumb
> and inappropriate comments.  Since we feel superior to the other
> (inexcusably stupid) person, then we feel above reproach for our own
> actions (that can be cutting and cruel).
>
> On the other hand, if our own mind yields to the promptings of the
> Higher Self, it blends reason with love.  Rather than working in
> competition against God, it works with God and becomes much more
> effective.  Rather than judging another as intelligent or stupid, it
> sees any response as an opportunity for growth.  By responding
> positively we honor our mutual heritage as children of God and both
> respondents grow.
>
> No matter how much faith I have in the principle that I should live
> every moment as God's child, my first house Mars gets me in situations
> where I am tempted to snap at others.  If I yield to that temptation,
> the tendency is strengthened.  If I am able to overlook perceived
> shortcomings and respond positively, invariably it is a rewarding
> experience.  I am interested in others' thoughts on this matter and
> experiences in changing Mars passion to love.
>
> In fellowship,
>
> John
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
==
**************************************
* Pedro Melo                         *
* email: petermelon@...        *
*                                    *
*        Life is Awesome!            *
*        Viva la Vida!               *
**************************************__________________________________________\
____________________________
2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 2.9%
NextCard Internet VISA has a great introductory APR.
Customers with good credit are eligible for this special rate.
No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great rate for Internet customers!
http://www.nextcard.com/index.html?ref=eteegstr07

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

John,

I found your response very rewarding. I have another problem than yours.
I have Venus rising square to Saturn so I have a life of continual
sexual strife. It is very hard but can be very rewarding and the
experiences are what we are here for. I think by understanding your
problem and excepting it and acknowledging it to other people is helping
to turn that coal into a diamond!! Keep up the good work and realize
that it will be a lifetime committment to keep changing these lower
desires into higher ones. I am with you brother and appreciate your
honesty. This is one of the main reasons I joined this group so I could
get refreshing insight and the extra umph when needed. Thank you for
being so sincere and human!!

Love and fellowship,

Kirk
______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Thanks to Pedro Melo and Robert Kruseman for your thoughtful contributions to the discussion of "changing lead to gold."  Max Heindel's warning in Letters to Students that "the snares of the desire body are past finding out," is another aspect of the challenge of changing raw passion to altruistic love.  The lower nature seems never to cease trying to get us to deviate from living a life of service and soul growth.

One of the desire body's most subtle tricks is to team up with the mind.  (It is subtle to us but very obvious to others.)  If it succeeds, the mind becomes convinced that its job is to judge others.  Reason is quickly changed to rationalization.  For example, the mind sets its own standards of what is intelligent or not.  If others respond in a way that our mind/desire body deems is unintelligent, then we feel justified in attacking the other people, raking them over the coals for their dumb and inappropriate comments.  Since we feel superior to the other (inexcusably stupid) person, then we feel above reproach for our own actions (that can be cutting and cruel).

On the other hand, if our own mind yields to the promptings of the Higher Self, it blends reason with love.  Rather than working in competition against God, it works with God and becomes much more effective.  Rather than judging another as intelligent or stupid, it sees any response as an opportunity for growth.  By responding positively we honor our mutual heritage as children of God and both respondents grow.

No matter how much faith I have in the principle that I should live every moment as God's child, my first house Mars gets me in situations where I am tempted to snap at others.  If I yield to that temptation, the tendency is strengthened.  If I am able to overlook perceived shortcomings and respond positively, invariably it is a rewarding experience.  I am interested in others' thoughts on this matter and experiences in changing Mars passion to love.

In fellowship,

John
 
 

Hi Kirk!

As I understand the revolution diagram from the Cosmo, during each
period we travel through each of the 7 globes 7 times.  We do it like
this in this order:

A->B->C->D->E->F->G->A->B->C->D->E->F->G... ... ... ...
until we complete the 7 revolutions.  At the end of the 7th revolution
we have traveled into each globe and out of each globe 7 times.  In
other words we have repeated each globe 7 times, one time in each
revolution.

I used to think the same way you wrote me here, but when I looked
closely in the diagram I changed my mind.  This is how each period is
drawn.  All the globes are arranged in a circle and there is a fine
thread that circles 7 turns through each globe in the order I
explained above.  This is "ariadna's" (not sure of the spelling)
thread.  Max Heindel does not describe the flow of the globes with
words very much so I just take the diagram as the bottom line.

Let me know how this looks! Let me know if this makes sense.

With love and friendship

Pedro



---Kirk McLean <mclean@...> wrote:
>
> Pedro,
>
> Thanks for your quick response. I am a little confused. You say we
have
> gone through globes A-G? I thought we have just gone through 7
> revolutions of globes A,B,C and now are in the 4th revolution of globe
> D? Did I misread that?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk
>
>

==
**************************************
* Pedro Melo                         *
* email: petermelon@...        *
*                                    *
*        Life is Awesome!            *
*        Viva la Vida!               *
**************************************__________________________________________\
____________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hello Rosenet Friends!

Kirk posed a very good question, and I am going to answer it the best
I can right now.

Right now we are in globe D of  4th revolution of the earth period.
We have gone through globe D 3 times before, as well globes A - G.  In
this earth period the globes are as follows:

A -  Concrete thought world.
B -  Desire world
C -  Ethereal physical world
D -  Dense (chemical half) physical world
E -  Ethereal physical world
F -  Desire world
G -  Concrete though world.

Max Heindel says that through one revolution each time we pass through
one globe everything disintegrates making a minor cosmic night which
lasts less than the bigger cosmic nights of each period.

I think the discoveries of the universe with the big bang theory are
only limited to the stuff viewed through the dense physical world.
Maybe limitied to the ethereal physical world because we are sensing
e&m radiation through our radio telescopes and spectrophotometers and
interferometers.

Intuitively I think that the big bang marked the end of the cosmic
night between the globes C and D, marking the begginning of the globe
D in the 4th revolution of the earth period.  So these 13 billion
years of the history of the universe are merely the history of the
globe D of the 4th revolution of the earth period.

This is just my immediate intuition flashing this answer.  It may not
be correct or fully consistent with the western wisdom philosophy.
Any comments or remarks on this issue are appreciated cheerfully.

With love and Friendship

____________________________________
Group,

Having read lately about the success of the Hubble Space
Telescope to
peer back through time and according to scientists, reach
to 95% of the
origin of the universe, I wonder how this fits into our
believes of the
revolutions and periods of incarnation. Scientists claim
that our
universe is about 13 billion years old. What would this
"universe" be in
Max Heindel's grand scheme of evolution? Do they coincide
at all? Is
this a revolution or a period? Again any light on this
matter would be
greatly appreciated.

In fellowship,

Kirk



==
**************************************
* Pedro Melo                         *
* email: petermelon@...        *
*                                    *
*        Life is Awesome!            *
*        Viva la Vida!               *
**************************************__________________________________________\
____________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Group,

Having read lately about the success of the Hubble Space Telescope to
peer back through time and according to scientists, reach to 95% of the
origin of the universe, I wonder how this fits into our believes of the
revolutions and periods of incarnation. Scientists claim that our
universe is about 13 billion years old. What would this "universe" be in
Max Heindel's grand scheme of evolution? Do they coincide at all? Is
this a revolution or a period? Again any light on this matter would be
greatly appreciated.

In fellowship,

Kirk
______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

This could be the equivalent of deciding to be either a Presbyterian or
a Baptist. Whatever fits, wear it. Obviously, we were all influenced
greatly by Max Heindel's writings and thus chose his affiliation. I
think the main point is to be a Christian and "walk the walk" and "talk
the talk". Many great minds were part of the organization also if you
look at whom they say were members. I am also interested in the
differences of the Theosophist Society and the Rosicrucians. Can anyone
shine any light on this?

In fellowship,

Kirk
______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

It was a long time ago when I first investigated both the Rosicrucian
Fellowship and the Rosicrucian Organization. I chose the Fellowship for two
reasons: 1) there was some kind of charge involved with lessons (it may
have been dues, but I felt any charge might exclude some poorer person who
deserved access to these teachings) and 2) the Fellowship had a more
positive attitude. The Organization made a point of saying that anyone else
using the Rosicrucian name was a fraud and couldn't trace themselves back
in history to the "original" Rosicrucian, as they claimed they could.

Sherry
from the Great North Woods
______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, johnny wrote:

> I had always believed these "San Jose Roscucians" were as
different from us
> as night is from day.
> I had always believed they charge for levels of
initiation and therefore
> they are as bogus as a $3.00 bill.


No! not really.  Their difference is their addherence to the egipcian
and greek mysticism.  They use a lot of glyphs and symbols from them.
Their rituals are like that too from what I have heard.  They teach a
lot of "magic" tricks to practice over their mailed home lessons,  to
awaken some ESP or some form of clairvoyance.

What I like about us is that we emphasize selfless "service" all the
time as the all time foundation to true brotherhood.  This really made
me stick to our fellowship.  Also we adhere to christianity and it is
a plus too because it is the main religion in this part of the globe.
The San Jose group does not emphasize christianity as much as we do
but they have good books on the life of Jesus Christ, such as the
Mystic Life of Jesus and the Secret Doctrines of Jesus.

From what I have read The San Jose Group does not use Astrology and
they do not believe in it.  They do study Life cycles according to
some other time rythmic scheme I have not studied.

> I had always believed they and us were together at one
moment in time way
> long time ago, and that they failed an initiation and
decided to charge for
> their knowledge and we considered spiritual knowledge not
to be spiritual
> if there were an element of the coin of the realm
involved.


I do not know if the Founder Spencer Lewis failed an initiation.
However I believe that being more giving like we are helps a great
deal reach the kingdom of heaven.  We emphasize the development of
both the heart and the mind.  The san Jose group seems to be leaning
more toward the mind than the heart.  I believe our system allows you
to appreciate a MUCH broader picture of the universe.  However I like
a the books I have read from them (the ones on Jesus) and they have
sound ideas.


  Someone who's
come into contact with a true Rosicrucian would know better
than to call
themselves one.


Yes I with you all the way on this one!  I believe true Rosicrucians
live the kingdom of heaven to the fullest.


With Love and Friendship








==
**************************************
* Pedro Melo                         *
* email: petermelon@...        *
*                                    *
*        Life is Awesome!            *
*        Viva la Vida!               *
**************************************__________________________________________\
____________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, johnny wrote:

> I had always believed these "San Jose Roscucians" were as different from us
> as night is from day.
> I had always believed they charge for levels of initiation and therefore
> they are as bogus as a $3.00 bill.
> I had always believed they and us were together at one moment in time way
> long time ago, and that they failed an initiation and decided to charge for
> their knowledge and we considered spiritual knowledge not to be spiritual
> if there were an element of the coin of the realm involved.

I have checked out http://www.rosicrucian.org and from what I've seen,
I wouldn't be so quick as to dismiss them as bogus. They don't strike
me as being a wealth-accumulating organization, but as using
membership funds to improve their grounds and services. I agree this
doesn't follow Heindel's precept and so I don't think I'd be going to
them for initiation, but that doesn't mean there is nothing of value
there. It's my impression that the folks at AMORC are more students of
Rosicrucianism through books and historical accounts, rather than people
who have actually come into contact with the Brothers (but then, of
course, most of us meet that profile too...but we have a founder whom most
of us believe did come into contact with them). The very error of thinking
that they themselves ARE Rosicrucians gives me that impression. Someone who's
come into contact with a true Rosicrucian would know better than to call
themselves one.

I still find it a bit irksome, though, that they got the .org address and
we got the .com address, being as we are the ones who don't charge membership.
The Fellowship really should have an .org domain as a matter of principle.
But what sounds good and isn't taken at this point?

> I had always believed there were at least five different esoteric
> organizations in the world that have the name "Rosicrucian" in thier title.

Well, the Rosicrucians have been known, at least in legend, since some
centuries ago. This is to be expected. But the Fellowship is different
from other such organizations in that we don't call ourselves
Rosicrucians (not properly anyway), and that we see ourselves as a
sort of renaissance of the movement rather than as having a direct
lineage back to the founding.

In friendship,
Suzanne

--
http://www.igs.net/~tril/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s-: a-- C++$ ULHOIS+++$>++++ P+++ L++ E+ W+++(--)$ N++(+) !o K++ w---()
!O M-- V-- PS+@ PE@ Y+() PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R !tv b++@ DI++ D--- G++ e++* h---
r++>+++ x*?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Oh, something I forgot to mention...

You'll have to register with egroups before you can get into the website,
using the same e-mail address you use with the mailing list. This is
because the site is currently restricted to members only. That can be
changed.

In case you are unable to get into the html-template site (I think it
may be admin only), I've copied part of it onto a webpage on my
own site: http://www.igs.net/~tril/demo.html.

-Suzanne

--
http://www.igs.net/~tril/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s-: a-- C++$ ULHOIS+++$>++++ P+++ L++ E+ W+++(--)$ N++(+) !o K++ w---()
!O M-- V-- PS+@ PE@ Y+() PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R !tv b++@ DI++ D--- G++ e++* h---
r++>+++ x*?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hi Bob and Rosenet members,

> Rikke Jennow from Copenhagen, Denmark has filled out the RoseNet website
> visitor regsitration form and requests her addition to our mailing list.
> Her e-mail address is:
>
>                                                       jennow@...
>
> Welcome Rikke!
>
> (In addition to adding her e-mail address to individual lists, will you,
> Suzanne, be contacting her for the automated list?)

I've sent an invitation to jennow@... to join rosenet@egroups.com. She
simply replies to that and is added to the list.

Bob, when you get a chance, please check out the following url:

    http://www.egroups.com/listman?method=display_templates&listname=rosenet

What you'll see there is HTML templates to put a Rosenet subscription box
up on your site. If you do that, joining the Rosenet list would be
as easy for people as typing in their e-mail address and clicking on a
button.

Those who don't have access to the web can subscribe by sending an empty
message to rosenet-subscribe@egroups.com. Would you consider putting up
this info and the subscription box on your site?

On a related note, you no longer need to send messages to me to post, or
use the "RCF: " prefix. That was a temporary fix which is no longer needed.
Simply send them to rosenet@egroups.com! Everything's automated.

> One suggestion is the addition of e-mail subjects to the e-mail archive web
> page, as the listing displays only dates of e-mail. This would require
> saving the web page, reading the e-mails, then copying & pasting their
> subjects. Interested?

Did you notice my mention of automated archiving at egroups? Check out the
website at http://www.egroups.com/list/rosenet/ and you'll see what I mean.
Messages can be viewed by subject, date, or author. This is all automatic
and requires no human intervention! If you are interested, I'd like to
look into putting the past archives onto this site. I think the egroups
admins can help us with that.

In friendship,
Suzanne

--
http://www.igs.net/~tril/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s-: a-- C++$ ULHOIS+++$>++++ P+++ L++ E+ W+++(--)$ N++(+) !o K++ w---()
!O M-- V-- PS+@ PE@ Y+() PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R !tv b++@ DI++ D--- G++ e++* h---
r++>+++ x*?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Forwarded message from Bob Jacobs:

Dear RoseNet friends,

Rikke Jennow from Copenhagen, Denmark has filled out the RoseNet website
visitor regsitration form and requests her addition to our mailing list.
Her e-mail address is:

                                                       jennow@...

Welcome Rikke!

(In addition to adding her e-mail address to individual lists, will you,
Suzanne, be contacting her for the automated list?)

The Encyclopedic Index of Natal & Medical Astrology has been posted to the
RF website and linked from the Goodnet website. It can be accessed as
follows:

                              www.goodnet.com/~bjake          or,

                              www.rosicrucian.com/courses/adxeng01.htm

The Cosmo Index is 50% complete. Both of these indices will be integrated
into online RF courses as well as being accessible as described above. Hope
you find them helpful....

Apologies to those who have responded to my request for help with various &
sundry projects.
Simply been too overwhelmed with family, work, etc. to respond in a more
timely manner.

One suggestion is the addition of e-mail subjects to the e-mail archive web
page, as the listing displays only dates of e-mail. This would require
saving the web page, reading the e-mails, then copying & pasting their
subjects. Interested?

The volume on the RF website continues to steadily climb. Soon mirror sites
will be needed. Are you ready?

Later, friends,
Bob Jacobs


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hello Rosenet friends:

I have been silent for a long time. I will try to give some
pointers to
John Hempstead's query. I will have to tackle Pedro's and
Richard's et al
Science discussions at some other time.

I agree that Retrospection is a very difficult exercise and
it can be slow
in showing results. Among its other purposes, retrospection
is meant to
stir our conscience when we encounter a situation for which
we have shown
repentance. Max Heindel termed it "like rubbing salt in a
wound." In
Masonry in the First degree there is a special point where
this type of
conscience forming is also invoked. While I try to control
my passions I
find it tough going as I have several configurations that
give me a short
fuse. I have Mars in the sixth house with Jupiter and
Uranus in opposition
and Neptune and Sun squaring it. Top this with the fact my
Saturn's only
aspect is a conjunction to Mercury and you get the picture.

The main problem as I see it is that our mental and vital
body images are
not in agreement. We still respond too strongly to our
desire currents and
our vital body images from previous life-times. I have
found some relief
after writing (journaling) my reactions to situations. I
have found that
involving a physical aspect to the retrospection has been
particularly
helpful. Also, before engaging something or someone I pray
for guidance. I
try to become receptive - this is why I think one must
relax prior to
starting the retrospection exercise - to God's guidance.
The problem is
becoming selfless at that moment and accepting what is
offered to me. Many
times it goes against what I thought was "best". The third
ingredient is
the mind: basically I am changing my vital body, so I
remind myself time
and again: "how can I deal with this situation in a calm,
non-defensive
manner" as an example.

My main problems besides worry and concern given by
Saturn's aspect to
Mercury is impulsiveness - Mars opposition Uranus - so I
have to remind
myself to think before I act - not always easy for me - not
to jump to
conclusions, i.e. to hear both sides of the story before I
make a
determination, etc.  I also have difficulty handling
conflict, especially
with my family (I have four planets in the fourth house).
This is the area
where I have made the least progress. With others it
becomes easier (the
message is sinking in). It has been a struggle, though.

As far as "serving the Divine Essence within" every
individual, I must
admit there are times I am hard-pressed to find that
"Divine Essence
within". I cannot at this stage, look at the most forlorn
of mortals and
see something beyond sin, to quote a passage I once read. I
believe this
comes from Max Heindel's suggestion that evil is good in
the making. While
it is true, that in theory we are supposed to assimilate
our lessons during
our stays in Purgatory and First Heaven how much we bring
back with us is
open to debate. Astrologically speaking, evil is a result
of so called
"bad" aspects, in other words, using our planetary
influences in the wrong
fashion. While this may be true, it also pre-supposes
certain tendencies
that we must master while in the flesh. The answer to this
is more
complicated: The best way I have found is the program that
was originally
used to help alcoholics overcome their dependence. This
same program has
been utilized by others in such diverse activities as
sexual addiction to
emotions anonymous. The main idea is to acquire a
"spiritual awakening" by
which is meant a complete (as far as possible) religious
conversion, going
from a life dictated by our desires, needs, etc. to a
complete reliance in
God. Not an easy task at the best of times.

Feel free to reply critiquing ideas, not grammar. Thanks.

In love and fellowship,


Robert Kruseman






______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hello Rosenet friends:

I have been silent for a long time. I will try to give some
pointers to
John Hempstead's query. I will have to tackle Pedro's and
Richard's et al
Science discussions at some other time.

I agree that Retrospection is a very difficult exercise and
it can be slow
in showing results. Among its other purposes, retrospection
is meant to
stir our conscience when we encounter a situation for which
we have shown
repentance. Max Heindel termed it "like rubbing salt in a
wound." In
Masonry in the First degree there is a special point where
this type of
conscience forming is also invoked. While I try to control
my passions I
find it tough going as I have several configurations that
give me a short
fuse. I have Mars in the sixth house with Jupiter and
Uranus in opposition
and Neptune and Sun squaring it. Top this with the fact my
Saturn's only
aspect is a conjunction to Mercury and you get the picture.

The main problem as I see it is that our mental and vital
body images are
not in agreement. We still respond too strongly to our
desire currents and
our vital body images from previous life-times. I have
found some relief
after writing (journaling) my reactions to situations. I
have found that
involving a physical aspect to the retrospection has been
particularly
helpful. Also, before engaging something or someone I pray
for guidance. I
try to become receptive - this is why I think one must
relax prior to
starting the retrospection exercise - to God's guidance.
The problem is
becoming selfless at that moment and accepting what is
offered to me. Many
times it goes against what I thought was "best". The third
ingredient is
the mind: basically I am changing my vital body, so I
remind myself time
and again: "how can I deal with this situation in a calm,
non-defensive
manner" as an example.

My main problems besides worry and concern given by
Saturn's aspect to
Mercury is impulsiveness - Mars opposition Uranus - so I
have to remind
myself to think before I act - not always easy for me - not
to jump to
conclusions, i.e. to hear both sides of the story before I
make a
determination, etc.  I also have difficulty handling
conflict, especially
with my family (I have four planets in the fourth house).
This is the area
where I have made the least progress. With others it
becomes easier (the
message is sinking in). It has been a struggle, though.

As far as "serving the Divine Essence within" every
individual, I must
admit there are times I am hard-pressed to find that
"Divine Essence
within". I cannot at this stage, look at the most forlorn
of mortals and
see something beyond sin, to quote a passage I once read. I
believe this
comes from Max Heindel's suggestion that evil is good in
the making. While
it is true, that in theory we are supposed to assimilate
our lessons during
our stays in Purgatory and First Heaven how much we bring
back with us is
open to debate. Astrologically speaking, evil is a result
of so called
"bad" aspects, in other words, using our planetary
influences in the wrong
fashion. While this may be true, it also pre-supposes
certain tendencies
that we must master while in the flesh. The answer to this
is more
complicated: The best way I have found is the program that
was originally
used to help alcoholics overcome their dependence. This
same program has
been utilized by others in such diverse activities as
sexual addiction to
emotions anonymous. The main idea is to acquire a
"spiritual awakening" by
which is meant a complete (as far as possible) religious
conversion, going
from a life dictated by our desires, needs, etc. to a
complete reliance in
God. Not an easy task at the best of times.

Feel free to reply critiquing ideas, not grammar. Thanks.

In love and fellowship,


Robert Kruseman








______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hi all,

I don't think this message made it out to the list, so I'm forwarding it
along for the benefit of anyone still using their own mailing lists.

-Suzanne

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 09:22:12 -0600
From: Barbara STIMPSON <barbara.stimpson@...>
Subject: Re: You have been added to rosenet

To all concerned listserv group moderators:

Please remove me from all lists.  This is my work address.  I cannot
continue to receive all the messages generated by these list servers
at my work address.  Thank you.

To John Hempstead:  Please also remove me from any other mailing lists
associated with RoseNet.  I encourage the use of this communication
method, but I am unable to use it with my current access.  Thank you.
(p.s., it was good seeing you again - till we meet again - Barbie)

Sincerely,
Barbara Stimpson

Received: from wingra.adp.wisc.edu by ccmail.adp.wisc.edu (ccMail Link to SMTP
R8.00.01)
	 ; Thu, 01 Oct 98 05:15:54 -0600
Return-Path:
<rosenet-retsub-907237095-1469194514-barbara.stimpson=ccmail.adp.wisc.edu@egroup\
s.com>
Received: from findmail.com by wingra.adp.wisc.edu
           id FAA19960 (8.8.6/50); Thu, 1 Oct 1998 05:19:02 -0500
Received: (qmail 14668 invoked by uid 505); 1 Oct 1998 10:18:15 -0000
Date: 1 Oct 1998 10:18:15 -0000
Message-ID: <19981001101815.14667.qmail@...>
Mailing-List: contact rosenet-owner@...; run by eGroups.com
Precedence: list
From: "eGroups.com List Manager" <tril@...>
Subject: You have been added to rosenet
Reply-To: rosenet-unsubscribe-barbara.stimpson=ccmail.adp.wisc.edu@egroups.com
To: barbara.stimpson@...

Hello all!

I checked this morning and saw that you were all subscribed successfully.
If everything works properly, this mail should end up in your mboxes.

As described in the subscription notice, Rosenet is now fully automated
via egroups.com (thanks to John Hempstead for pointing this service out
to me). Here's how to do various things:

* To post to the list: send mail to rosenet@egroups.com
* To go to the list on the web: go to http://www.egroups.com/list/rosenet/.
   + You'll need to login, and create an account if you haven't already. In
     creating the account you should use the same e-mail address that you
     are registered on the list with. This is necessary because for now the
     list's webspace is restricted to members only.
   + One of the things you can do here is change how you receive messages from
     the list. Right now you all receive them as individual e-mail messages.
     But you can also tell the system you'd rather receive them in weekly
     digests, or not receive mail at all but just read the list on the web
   + You can also read the list archives as well as recent messages
* To unsubscribe: You can do this on the web, or by sending mail to
   rosenet-unsubscribe@egroups.com (no subject or body needed)
* To send a personal reply to a poster: this is the default (note this is
   different from the way I set things up before) with egroups. Just use the
   reply function of your mailer.
* To send a group reply: Use the reply function but change the To: address
   to rosenet@egroups.com, or use "list reply" if your mailer has such a
   function.

Right now I have certain policies set up for the list: the archives are open
to members only, subscriptions do not need to be approved by the moderator
(currently me), nor do messages to the list, membership listing is not visible
to anyone except the moderator, etc. All of these can be changed if it is the
consensus of the group that they should be. Even the way reply-to is handled,
as mentioned above, can be changed. It's as simple as the click of a button
on the web.

I strongly encourage all of you to use this service instead of keeping
your own lists...it no longer requires any extra work for me :-)

That's about it for now. Have fun!

In fellowship,
Suzanne

--
http://www.igs.net/~tril/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s-: a-- C++$ ULHOIS+++$>++++ P+++ L++ E+ W+++(--)$ N++(+) !o K++ w---()
!O M-- V-- PS+@ PE@ Y+() PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R !tv b++@ DI++ D--- G++ e++* h---
r++>+++ x*?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

This is another test message.

-Tril

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s--:- a-- C++$ ULHOI+++$>++++ P+++ L>++ E W+++$ N++(+) !o K++ w---() !O
M-- V-- PS+@ PE@ Y+() PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R !tv(+) b++@ DI++ D--- G++ e*>+++ h+
r++ x*?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.