Is this an Xtracyle or Big Dummy? Internal or external gearing? Planet Bike 29er
fenders will fit the BD fine as will 2.5" tires, at least with internal (hub)
gears.

David Dannenberg

It's an Xtracycle with external gearing. Back when the donor bike was still an
actual mountain bike, the biggest tire I ever ran was a 2.10. I think, circa
late 90s there weren't too many, if any choices for tires bigger than 2.10. Now,
that being said I think there was probably room in the frame for something
bigger, but it seems like there just isn't a whole heck of a lot of difference
between 2.10 and 2.3-something. I'm kinda wondering, since some guys are running
serious flotation rubber in the 3.0 size what fenders are they using? Do you
think running the bigger tires helps any with load carrying capacity? Say, what
do you think would be the advantages or disadvantages between something in the
1.9 range versus 2.1+ assuming both were quality tires?

--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, David Dannenberg  wrote:
>
> Is this an Xtracyle or Big Dummy? Internal or external gearing? Planet Bike
29er fenders will fit the BD fine as will 2.5" tires, at least with internal
(hub) gears.
>
> David Dannenberg
>

On 2013-01-04, at 8:14 PM, kiltie_celt <matthew-campbell@...> wrote:

>  Do you think running the bigger tires helps any with load carrying capacity?

Reading the Schwalbe ratings, all else equal, bigger is better.

> Say, what do you think would be the advantages or disadvantages between
something in the 1.9 range versus 2.1+ assuming both were quality tires?

Big tires gets you more load carrying ability, better protection from potholes,
longer intervals between tire inflation, and the ability to drop your inflation
to about 35-40psi to get a softer ride.  They're less affected by slots and
cracks in the road.

Disadvantages include reduced fender choice, takes all day to inflate with a
hand pump, and your wheel does not fit in all "bicycle-sized" slots.

David

 

So, one of the last things to do on my build is get some fenders on the ride. Right now I have some Kenda 26x1.95 but I'd like to have the ability to run slightly larger tires, say 26x2.35 or so. I don't know exactly how big of a tire I could squeeze onto my frame without worrying about chain rub issues (back tire), or front fork/V-brake clearance. A couple sets of fenders I'm looking at are SKS B60 which will take up to 2.1 size or SKS P55 which can take up to 2.3 size. Do you think there's really that much difference in terms of weight carrying capacity or whatever - any major reason why you'd choose 2.3 over 2.1 size tires? For the record, I can buy the B60s for about $30, and the P55s for $46, so only a $15 difference. I'm kinda leaning towards the P55s just so I know if I end up going up to 2.3 I'll have the room for them. Suggestions?

David,
	 No offense, but I strongly disagree with your opinion about big tires
getting you more load capacity. I say this from my personal experience in
primarily riding with 1.5” tires. I have carried SO much stuff. Many
people on this list have already seen some of the photos of my loads, so
I will not bother posting links to them this time around. In the past I
always bought 26” x 1.5” Avocet Kevlar lined tires with the inverted
zig-zag tread, and I would go months with out a flat. As an extra
precaution, I would also squirt in Slime just in case. That was back when
I was working as a bike messenger in NYC. The rubber was a stiffer/harder
type in those avocet tires, so they lasted much longer. Of course, I
mainly only ride on pavement with occasional packed dirt trails.
Unfortunately for me in the last several years Avocet stopped making
these tires from what I understand. If I had to guess, the tires lasted
so long they did not make enough money off them. I was really bummed when
I stopped being able to get those tires.
	 I do not know if this helps put my own opinion into perspective, but I
would pump my tires anywhere between 80-110 PSI. At that pressure my
tires were solid and very responsive. I still felt my ride was
better/softer than riding on any road bike. For those especially heavy
loads, I actually much rather preferred a higher inflated tire. I
disliked feeling the bounce in lower pressure tire when hauling a big
load.
	 I will not at all argue your point about better protection from potholes
when riding on bigger less-inflated tires. I just avoided pot holes,
which is sometimes difficult in NYC, but I never had a problem. I did
frequently fly off sidewalk curbs though, which I would consider harsher
on a cargo bike than a mild pot hole. I would not bunny hop off sidewalks
or anything, and I would usually only fly off them when unloaded.
Unloaded for me though is still riding with about thirty pounds on top of
the bike itself.
	 I am not sure what you mean by longer intervals between tire inflation.
Maybe I never had a larger tire on my bike long enough to notice a
difference in re-inflation periods. I think I tended to
inflate/re-inlfate my tires mainly when I had flats. Truthfully, many
times when I finally got around to patching or replacing my inner tubes,
sometimes I would find two or three puncture points. I am almost positive
I must have been getting flats over stretches of time, but the Slime I
put in clogged them up enough so I would only have to inflate my tires up
once every week or every other week. When I did not get flats I would
never have to re-inflate my tires to pump them up to a higher desired PSI
unless for some disturbing reason my bike was not ridden for a long
stretch of time. Of course back then that would have been NEVER as my
bike was my primary mode of transportation as well as my profession.

Ride safe,
_TONE_

On 2013-01-05, at 2:21 PM, Tone <tone@...> wrote:

> David,
> No offense, but I strongly disagree with your opinion about big tires
> getting you more load capacity. I say this from my personal experience in
> primarily riding with 1.5” tires.

No offense taken -- I'm just working from the Schwalbe site; they include load
ratings for different sizes of Big Apple, and the fatter the tire, the higher
the rating.  Here's where I got my info:
http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/big_apple

There's apparently a tradeoff between wheel strength and tire strength; my
understanding is that smaller (spoked) wheels are stronger than larger ones, but
larger tires appear to be stronger (carry larger loads) than smaller ones.

Back when I ran 700c, I did bottom out a 32mm (1.25") tire to the point that I
rumpled the rim.  Fortunately, disk brakes, and I could fix it with vise-grips,
but not a really great thing to have happen.

> I am not sure what you mean by longer intervals between tire inflation.

Many weeks, maybe months.  I suspect that Slime would also work better in the
larger, lower-pressure tires, just because of the lower pressure pushing goop
through holes..

David

On 2013-01-06, at 8:40 AM, David Dannenberg <ddannenberg@...> wrote:

> This discussion echoes the discussion I have been having in my head and with
some biking friends. I have 2.5" Hookworms on my Big Dummy.

>  I have ridden several blocks on a completely flat tire. No fun, and slow, but
marginally better than walking a full cargo bike

This Does Not Work with Big Apples.  I tried once.  The sidewalls are not stiff
enough, and the tires fit loose (Schwalbe in general seem to be a little on the
loose side, Nokian tends tight).

> That said, they are very heavy, and not particularly flat resistant. (I would
rather not have to ride several blocks on a flat tire). I keep thinking I would
like something lighter and more puncture proof in the same size and pressure
range.

> Options? well, I looked at everything Schwalbe makes.  The bigger sizes all
run lower pressure. Also, the most puncture proof models like the Marathon Plus
Tour with Smartguard are not made bigger than 2" (and are heavy).

I think you should look at the 2.35" Big Apples.  60psi is not much lower than
65psi.  I don't get many flats; last one was something like a stiff piece of
10-gauge wire that went in through one sidewall and out the other.

> Meantime I have heard of studies that show that, contrary to intuition, tires
at lower pressure under many circumstances are actually faster than tires under
high pressure. This is especially true on gravel or uneven surfaces where
apparently the compliance of a soft tire is preferable to the energy wasting
bounce and ricochet of a hard tire. I ride a combination of dirt road and
pavement and still lean toward the high PSI….but perhaps I am wrong in that. The
soft is more comfortable, but feels slower.

I compared 700c x narrow x 120psi, versus 26"x2.35" Big Apple (60psi), and the
Big Apple had lower resistance.  However, when the pressure is significantly
down (below 40psi) I notice that it appears to be slower.  At intermediate
pressures I am not sure, but the front end is more prone to shimmy if I ride
no-hands.

What I have read in other places is that if equals are compared (meaning, equal
sidewall tension, so 60psi in a 60mm tire, or 120psi in a 30mm tire, and tires
otherwise the same) the fat tire will have lower rolling resistance.  However,
air resistance matters too, and the top edge of the tire front hits still air at
double your road speed.

David

Fellow longtail riders, I'd like to invite you to go read my blog, 'Velo Celt'
wherein I have completed three posts today, detailing the construction of my
Xtracycle. I still have things I want to do to the bike, but overall it's pretty
much finished. I still need to complete my conversion of some German military
surplus bags into cargo bags, as well as making my own wide loaders, long
loader, installing fenders, and putting some larger tires on the bike. Anyway,
thanks to everyone for providing so much helpful advice, and I hope you enjoy
the read.

http://velocelt.blogspot.com/

Nice job, well done!

Has anyone seen a LT (xtracycle or BD) version of the logo that's usually
painted on streets to identify bike lanes? I'm looking for a version (I believe
I saw it before on the internet, with a rider and 2 kids on the back) with
simple traces (not a photograph or detailed line art).
If you saw it somewhere let me know.
Cheers!
Fred

I found this one a while ago on the Kidicalmass.org site. Not sure who actually
created the logo.

Steven Tallides
Sent from my iPhone

Hey, guys, thanks a lot! I've never seen those. The one I saw years ago was also
cool, and had two kids on the back. I'll keep looking but the ones you posted
are quite nice.
Thanks!
Fred

--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Steven Tallides  wrote:
>
> I found this one a while ago on the Kidicalmass.org site. Not sure who
actually created the logo.
>
>
>
>
> Steven Tallides
> Sent from my iPhone
>

Hey there folks. More tales of Xtracycle adventure, now with booze!

http://www.velocelt.blogspot.com/2013/01/xtracycle-shakedown-booze-cruise.html

Hi,

Anybody have links or references to building your own Half Xtracycle.
An xtracycle on a regular bike, with no wheel extension? Still strong enough to
support a person sitting in the back, but less of a footprint.
Saw some pictures somewhere of one...  Thanks!

I don't know about DIY links for building one, but it sounds like you're talking
about something similar to the Yuba Boda Boda

http://yubaride.com/bodaboda

It has some of the same cargo carrying capacity of their Mundo but a bit less
weight apparently, and I've read some review that say the deck is a bit too high
so it makes loads on the deck feel a bit unstable. You might start there if
you're trying to brain storm ideas. I'd mention, from my own experience, even on
a full-size longtail like the Xtracycle, carrying adult passengers is tricky.
The frame extension is way too flexy to carry a heavy-ish full size adult. And
by heavy-ish I mean 200lb, which really isn't all that heavy. One-piece frames
like the Big Dummy or the various Xtracycle versions like the Radish or
Edgerunner or similar offerings from either Trek, Yuba, or Salsa might be more
rigid and thus support adults better.

--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "diy141"  wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Anybody have links or references to building your own Half Xtracycle.
> An xtracycle on a regular bike, with no wheel extension? Still strong enough
to support a person sitting in the back, but less of a footprint.
> Saw some pictures somewhere of one...  Thanks!
>

Hey gang
Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a
long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles
on it total, so it's young overall.

1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that
checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have
been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side
of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of
gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but
pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was
surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical
importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely
symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the
opposing side)

2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that
carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two
peapod III's, transporting  24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to
nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at
the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I
believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to
lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel
size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.

Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of
cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know
personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.

Cheers
thom

I use Locktite on all of the bolts when I assemble any bike. That being said,
I'll be keeping an eye on these nuts and bolts on my own Xtracycle seeing as how
it's one of the critical points on the whole unit. It's a great platform for
converting an unused mtb into a useful cargo bike, but it does have it's
limitations. The whole thing is a bit on the flexy side, so any of the solid
frame alternatives around bound to be stiffer.

--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab"  wrote:
>
> Hey gang
> Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a
long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles
on it total, so it's young overall.
>
> 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that
checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have
been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side
of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of
gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but
pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was
surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical
importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely
symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the
opposing side)
>
> 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you
that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I
have two peapod III's, transporting  24lb and 35lb children, frequently with
little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY
unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can
get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with
weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice
of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
>
> Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of
cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know
personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
>
> Cheers
> thom
>

Oh, almost forgot - you mentioned something about wheel size? Are you using 700c
wheels instead of a build based off of a more traditional 26" wheel size? The
700c wheels, if that's the case with your build, might make things a bit more
flexy.


--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "kiltie_celt"  wrote:
>
> I use Locktite on all of the bolts when I assemble any bike. That being said,
I'll be keeping an eye on these nuts and bolts on my own Xtracycle seeing as how
it's one of the critical points on the whole unit. It's a great platform for
converting an unused mtb into a useful cargo bike, but it does have it's
limitations. The whole thing is a bit on the flexy side, so any of the solid
frame alternatives around bound to be stiffer.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab"  wrote:
> >
> > Hey gang
> > Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for
a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles
on it total, so it's young overall.
> >
> > 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that
checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have
been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side
of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of
gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but
pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was
surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical
importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely
symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the
opposing side)
> >
> > 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you
that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I
have two peapod III's, transporting  24lb and 35lb children, frequently with
little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY
unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can
get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with
weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice
of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
> >
> > Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of
cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know
personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
> >
> > Cheers
> > thom
> >
>

You guys are making me nervous now!  I'll have to check both of mine now but to
date haven't had an issue ever.  I've moved my Xtra frame to three different
bikes too.

What type of bike is this on?  I've got one built as a StumpJumper with the
original suspension fork and the other a old Mixte frame mated to a 26 inch
Alfine 8 rear and a 700c front.  The rest of the Mixte sans handlebars is stock.
Neither of these bikes feel unstable at start up unless heavily loaded (like
160lbs passenger loaded).  I pick up my little girl daily from school on it. 
She's 7 and I'm unsure of her weight but she's rarely sitting still.  I've even
seen her with her feet up and legs crossed a few times.  I've got a custom deck
on my Xtra (the Mixte is for the wife) with a back rest so she can relax.

We did Cranksgiving this year on both Xtras. By we, I mean a buddy and I rode
one Xtra until the batteries ran low and then swapped to the other to save
weight.  With a ton of groceries and a 160lbs passenger it did get a bit
unstable at slow speeds but I think we were pushing the limit of the bikes.

Off to check my "special nuts" :)

Tony B.
Milwaukee WI

--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab"  wrote:
>
> Hey gang
> Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a
long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles
on it total, so it's young overall.
>
> 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that
checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have
been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side
of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of
gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but
pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was
surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical
importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely
symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the
opposing side)
>
> 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you
that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I
have two peapod III's, transporting  24lb and 35lb children, frequently with
little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY
unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can
get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with
weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice
of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
>
> Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of
cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know
personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
>
> Cheers
> thom
>

A Bid Dummy rides pretty comfortably with an adult sitting on the back, albeit I
have carried adults more in the 125-170lb range.

David Dannenberg

Hey Thom,

The X has been a wonderful addition to our family for 9 years now, and I can
share a couple of tips about hauling kids. My boys are now 8 and 5, and their
combined weight had me huffing and puffing as I biked them 6 miles to school
each morning last fall. On the plus side, I turned in a great time in a century
ride I did in early October. Thanks kids!

Given the high center of gravity and the likelihood that the guys will be even
heavier this spring, I've become concerned about the possibility of low speed
crashes. It's when we're stopping and starting that the X is most unstable, as
you seem to be experiencing as well.

This spring, I plan to get a Burley Piccolo, attach it to the X and ask the
heaviest kid to pedal along with me. In addition to lowering the center of
gravity, I should get a small boost from his workout. The Piccolo attaches to
the X with enough room to spare for the smaller guy. It's a solution that just
came to me recently, so I thought I'd share it.

The problem with high center of gravity/kid hauling must be fairly widespread:
the new X's have small wheels in the back to lower the center of gravity plus
rollbars for rear seat passengers. Nice additions, but we plan to get a few more
years out of our original X before moving on to another.

Good luck!


--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab"  wrote:
>
> Hey gang
> Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a
long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles
on it total, so it's young overall.
>
> 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that
checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have
been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side
of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of
gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but
pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was
surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical
importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely
symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the
opposing side)
>
> 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you
that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I
have two peapod III's, transporting  24lb and 35lb children, frequently with
little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY
unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can
get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with
weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice
of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
>
> Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of
cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know
personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
>
> Cheers
> thom
>

After riding for several years my kids outgrew the double seat I made for
(originally an X, now my) Big Dummy.
I just want to find a better home for it. Someone that will be as happy as I was
with my kids on it.
If you are interested, please let me know. I'll leave the US next Wednesday so
it hasto be shipped before that.
I'm in NYC (10065) so depending on where you are it won't be cheap to have FedEx
or whatever deliver it, but I assure it's definitely worthy it.
It could use a new color or something but the wood is in perfect shape and it
was made to last and be very safe.
It would need a set of 4 superhooks because the ones I use came with my BD and
deck.
I don't intend to profit from it, just to find someone that wants to have a
great time with their kids.
If you have something X- or BD-related and want to trade it in as a reminder of
biking with my kids in the US, I'd be happy to accept, but I'm really letting it
go for free.
I have tons of pics but none available online that I can easily find.
I posted this one
https://plus.google.com/photos/101788283781760256528/albums/5837101550175727169
and I guess you can see it on my BD; I'm also using this trailer to carry more
stuff or more kids.
Best,
Fred

I may not understand exactly what you are trying to do, so forgive me if this is
off base. There may be a reason the project you saw os difficult to find.  Your
description reminds me of the Trek/Fisher which got some mixed reviews due to
the amount of rack extending past the rear wheel.  Once loaded it makes the
front end very light and the whole bike becomes skittish.  Add to that the
whippy frame flex and it doesn't sound so good. I haven't ridden one, but I have
looked at them.  I could see what people were talking about.

   The boda has a high rack (allows for an under deck battery+fender clearance);
however, the frame is remarkably stiff. The deck is also quite a bit shorter
than the one on my Dummy. My wife regularly carries our two kids with panniers
full and it's not squirly.

If I was going to build up a standard frame to carry big loads I would start
with an old school MTB that has really long stays(by current standards), and
keep the cargo over or ahead of the rear axle if possible.


--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "diy141"  wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Anybody have links or references to building your own Half Xtracycle.
> An xtracycle on a regular bike, with no wheel extension? Still strong enough
to support a person sitting in the back, but less of a footprint.
> Saw some pictures somewhere of one...  Thanks!
>