Yikes with the long distance judgmental parenting...I roll on an X with a kid on
the back (no "car seat" style set-ups) and I feel pretty confident that I am
giving US (bike commuting, low-car, healthy, involved, concerned,active parents)
a great name. Every time I see a mom or dad fighting with a kid to strap in the
car seats at the grocery store parking lot, I am grateful that my kid sits right
behind me on my bike.
Lets not give in to the pervasive MYTH that biking with kids is more dangerous
(it isn't), using factory produced plastic saftey gear provides safety (it
doesn't)and good parenting means strapping our kids into two-ton metal
projectiles. No thank you.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Gus" <doggiecaveman@...> wrote:
>
> We all know there are times to not be cheap and this is one. A little kid
NEEDS a child seat. My grandson was five when I got the Big Stoker, it was much
less than a surfboard, and he could not reach the Footies. Dude, people like
you give us a bad name, just like people who do not obey traffic laws.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@> wrote:
> >
> > DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
> >
> > So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my
Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been
throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap
slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap
to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much
better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so
long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that
would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would
fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for
putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I
have included some pictures.
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> > Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom
before fitting).
> >
> > Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my
part collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If
you are curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
> >
>
I have to agree that car seat style kid seats are not inherently safer, at least in my perception. I use a bobike on the front of one of my fixed gears which supports the child's back, and offers a three point harness. But it's not like on an overturn there's a roll cage there. In reality, I expect the helmet to HOPEPULLY minimize cranial impact damage, and the seat belts from preventing the child from being ejected at speed. As to neck safety, these seats do no more to protect the occupant than we have protections as riders. In fact, technically possibly they are even WORSE than riding (or the aforementioned bench/stoker kid configuration) because the child is strapped to the bike as it topples and may be forced into a head/neck impact they might otherwise avoid if they simply rolled off. I simply prefer the kid seat until my child is old enough to hold on tight and capable of being somewhat resilient on a fall off the way any of us are (instinctive head protection and roll) as what I very much do NOT want is my child becoming distracted and loosening their grip on a stoker, or simply losing their balance and falling off, while I'm riding, having nothing to do with an accident scenario.
Life is risk.
On Apr 10, 2012, at 11:42 AM, wjemco wrote:
Yikes with the long distance judgmental parenting...I roll on an X with a kid on the back (no "car seat" style set-ups) and I feel pretty confident that I am giving US (bike commuting, low-car, healthy, involved, concerned,active parents) a great name. Every time I see a mom or dad fighting with a kid to strap in the car seats at the grocery store parking lot, I am grateful that my kid sits right behind me on my bike.
Lets not give in to the pervasive MYTH that biking with kids is more dangerous (it isn't), using factory produced plastic saftey gear provides safety (it doesn't)and good parenting means strapping our kids into two-ton metal projectiles. No thank you.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Gus" <doggiecaveman@...> wrote:
>
> We all know there are times to not be cheap and this is one. A little kid NEEDS a child seat. My grandson was five when I got the Big Stoker, it was much less than a surfboard, and he could not reach the Footies. Dude, people like you give us a bad name, just like people who do not obey traffic laws.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@> wrote:
> >
> > DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
> >
> > So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I have included some pictures.
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> > Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom before fitting).
> >
> > Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my part collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If you are curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
> >
>
I think there is some good science behind all of these ideas. You cannot protect against all injuries in a fall or crash, it is just not possible. We all need to just minimize risk. Good bike handling, wise route choices, regulated speed based on surroundings and surfaces, safe riding style and a good helmet go much further than any fangled apparatus or seat. We have had two minor issues in almost 9 years of riding. Both times the kids came out without a scratch and we were all the wiser for it. I will tell you in one of the instances when I righted the bike, my 4 year old was still on his seat holding the handlebars with both feet on the pedals. Do not underestimate your kids.
Sean
From: thom chiaramonte <thom@...> To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
I have to agree that car seat style kid seats are not inherently safer, at least in my perception. I use a bobike on the front of one of my fixed gears which supports the child's back, and offers a three point harness. But it's not like on an overturn there's a roll cage there. In reality, I expect the helmet to HOPEPULLY minimize cranial impact damage, and the seat belts from preventing the child from being ejected at speed. As to neck safety, these seats do no more to protect the occupant than we have protections as riders. In fact, technically possibly they are even WORSE than riding (or the aforementioned bench/stoker kid configuration) because the child is strapped to the bike as it topples and may be forced into a head/neck impact they might otherwise avoid if they simply rolled off. I simply prefer the kid seat until my child is old enough to hold on tight and capable of being somewhat resilient on a fall off the way any of us are
(instinctive head protection and
roll) as what I very much do NOT want is my child becoming distracted and loosening their grip on a stoker, or simply losing their balance and falling off, while I'm riding, having nothing to do with an accident scenario.
Life is risk.
On Apr 10, 2012, at 11:42 AM, wjemco wrote:
Yikes with the long distance judgmental parenting...I roll on an X with a kid on the back (no "car seat" style set-ups) and I feel pretty confident that I am giving US (bike commuting, low-car, healthy, involved, concerned,active parents) a great name. Every time I see a mom or dad fighting with a kid to strap in the car seats at the grocery store parking lot, I am grateful that my kid sits right behind me on my bike.
Lets not give in to the pervasive MYTH that biking with kids is more dangerous (it isn't), using factory produced plastic saftey gear provides safety (it doesn't)and good parenting means strapping our kids into two-ton metal projectiles. No thank you.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Gus" <doggiecaveman@...> wrote:
>
> We all know there are times to not be cheap and this is one. A little kid NEEDS a child seat. My grandson was five when I got the Big Stoker, it was much less than a surfboard, and he could not reach the Footies. Dude, people like you give us a bad name, just like people who do not obey traffic laws.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@> wrote:
> >
> > DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
> >
> > So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I have included some pictures.
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> > Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom before fitting).
> >
> > Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my part collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If you are curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
> >
>
Good riding/observation is the number one thing really. Route choices depend on where you cycle, in my area there are not many really bad roads.
As for good helmets, I don’t think there’s a particular standard for judging that, although if you wear one it should certainly be properly fitted.
In Denmark and the Netherlands, helmet wearing is rare, cycling rates are high, casualties are low.
Personally one of the worst things in my view is the people that say to child cyclists to ‘wear a helmet’, as if that will protect them from their own risk-taking and lack of road skills. I’m much happier with my son on my bike with no helmet, subject to my judgement, then him on his, wearing a helmet, but with very questionable judgement/road sense.
Obviously everyone can make their own decisions, but I would personally class helmets alongside your ‘fangled apparatus’, and not the riding style.
Not meaning to start a tedious helmet debate, just expressing a point of view.
From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Mackin Sent: 10 April 2012 21:55 To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
Thom,
I think there is some good science behind all of these ideas. You cannot protect against all injuries in a fall or crash, it is just not possible. We all need to just minimize risk. Good bike handling, wise route choices, regulated speed based on surroundings and surfaces, safe riding style and a good helmet go much further than any fangled apparatus or seat. We have had two minor issues in almost 9 years of riding. Both times the kids came out without a scratch and we were all the wiser for it. I will tell you in one of the instances when I righted the bike, my 4 year old was still on his seat holding the handlebars with both feet on the pedals. Do not underestimate your kids.
You are probably right, I should have worded it properly fitted helmet. At one point in my mountain biking adventures I landed on my head and shoulder. The shoulder broke and so did the helmet but my head was not hurt. I am pro-helmet but will take a quick spin here and there without, but it is rare. I am not a helmets save all kind of guy, but do realize head injuries are to be avoided. There was a great article about helmets and head injuries in Dirtrag magazine a few months ago. It was a great read and touched on the pro an con plus each sides valid and skewed arguments.
Preventing the crash/injury in the first place is always the best plan.
Sean
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Matthew Brealey" <thelawnet@...>
Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 00:24:17 +0100
To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
Good riding/observation is the number one thing really. Route choices depend on where you cycle, in my area there are not many really bad roads.
As for good helmets, I don’t think there’s a particular standard for judging that, although if you wear one it should certainly be properly fitted.
In Denmark and the Netherlands, helmet wearing is rare, cycling rates are high, casualties are low.
Personally one of the worst things in my view is the people that say to child cyclists to ‘wear a helmet’, as if that will protect them from their own risk-taking and lack of road skills. I’m much happier with my son on my bike with no helmet, subject to my judgement, then him on his, wearing a helmet, but with very questionable judgement/road sense.
Obviously everyone can make their own decisions, but I would personally class helmets alongside your ‘fangled apparatus’, and not the riding style.
Not meaning to start a tedious helmet debate, just expressing a point of view.
From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Mackin Sent: 10 April 2012 21:55 To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
Thom,
I think there is some good science behind all of these ideas. You cannot protect against all injuries in a fall or crash, it is just not possible. We all need to just minimize risk. Good bike handling, wise route choices, regulated speed based on surroundings and surfaces, safe riding style and a good helmet go much further than any fangled apparatus or seat. We have had two minor issues in almost 9 years of riding. Both times the kids came out without a scratch and we were all the wiser for it. I will tell you in one of the instances when I righted the bike, my 4 year old was still on his seat holding the handlebars with both feet on the pedals. Do not underestimate your kids.
We try to run as many errands around our neighborhood on the Dummy. We get thumbs up constantly and questions about where to buy one. We also usually see plenty of people we know since I have lived here 19 years. It is pretty funny, I can even get across town faster than my wife with her driving the car (usually). We have a great network of paved and unpaved bike paths around here. And I agree "safety" can be misleading.
Sean
From: wjemco <wjeremycohen@...> To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:42 AM Subject: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
Yikes with the long distance judgmental parenting...I roll on an X with a kid on the back (no "car seat" style set-ups) and I feel pretty confident that I am giving US (bike commuting, low-car, healthy, involved, concerned,active parents) a great name. Every time I see a mom or dad fighting with a kid to strap in the car seats at the grocery store parking lot, I am grateful that my kid sits right behind me on my bike.
Lets not give in to the pervasive MYTH that biking with kids is more dangerous (it isn't), using factory produced plastic saftey gear provides safety (it doesn't)and good parenting means strapping our kids into two-ton metal projectiles. No thank you.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Gus" <doggiecaveman@...> wrote:
>
> We all know there are times to not be cheap and this is one. A little kid NEEDS a child seat. My grandson was five when I got the Big Stoker, it was much less than a surfboard, and he could not reach the Footies. Dude, people like you give us a bad name, just like people who do not obey traffic laws.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@> wrote:
> >
> > DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
> >
> > So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I have included some pictures.
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> > Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom before fitting).
> >
> > Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my part collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If you are curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
> >
>
Surfboards? What has any of this man's communication have to do with surfboards,
other than your shallow, pretentious and mean-spirited judgemental-ism? I used
to take my son ultralight flying at that age... He now flies for the USMC, try
judging me for that... People like YOU give you a bad name... And I'm sure you
have broken traffic laws at least once, try seeing reality...
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Gus" <doggiecaveman@...> wrote:
>
> We all know there are times to not be cheap and this is one. A little kid
NEEDS a child seat. My grandson was five when I got the Big Stoker, it was much
less than a surfboard, and he could not reach the Footies. Dude, people like
you give us a bad name, just like people who do not obey traffic laws.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@> wrote:
> >
> > DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
> >
> > So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my
Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been
throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap
slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap
to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much
better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so
long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that
would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would
fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for
putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I
have included some pictures.
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> > Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom
before fitting).
> >
> > Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my
part collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If
you are curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
> >
>
I respect all opinions, we are entitled to them and have these freedoms because of brave men like your son (Semper Fi). We each have our own sense of adventure and safe. Some more than others, yours is way more than mine, but wicked cool.
Sean
From: Vince <vintagemotorad@...> To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
Surfboards? What has any of this man's communication have to do with surfboards, other than your shallow, pretentious and mean-spirited judgemental-ism? I used to take my son ultralight flying at that age... He now flies for the USMC, try judging me for that... People like YOU give you a bad name... And I'm sure you have broken traffic laws at least once, try seeing reality...
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Gus" <doggiecaveman@...> wrote:
>
> We all know there are times to not be cheap and this is one. A little kid NEEDS a child seat. My grandson was five when I got the Big Stoker, it was much less than a surfboard, and he could not reach the Footies. Dude, people like you give us a bad name, just like people who do not obey traffic laws.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@> wrote:
> >
> > DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
> >
> > So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I have included some pictures.
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> > Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom before fitting).
> >
> > Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my part collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If you are curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
> >
>
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Vince" <vintagemotorad@...> wrote:
> Surfboards? What has any of this man's communication have to do with
surfboards, other than your shallow, pretentious and mean-spirited
judgemental-ism?
The Flightdeck had stickers for surfboards. I didn't mean to sound hateful or to
provoke hatred, but maybe I erred in both respects. I regret speaking up and
hope that this discussion will revert to a level below heaping pejoratives on
each other.
Robbie, no hate but an over-enthusiastic defense of Sean. I am very new to this
group and have found the people to be genuinely interested in helping one
another. Ordinarily, I do not participate in such groups but the questions and
responses are helpful even to the lurkers, I want to see it flourish. Focus on
the bike and the happiness it brings and the rest will follow.
Life is short but worth living to the fullest, I too hope this controversy is a
mere :"bump in the road" for this community and a personal learning moment for
us all.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "robbie_thek@..." <ansi41man@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Vince" <vintagemotorad@> wrote:
> > Surfboards? What has any of this man's communication have to do with
surfboards, other than your shallow, pretentious and mean-spirited
judgemental-ism?
> The Flightdeck had stickers for surfboards. I didn't mean to sound hateful or
to provoke hatred, but maybe I erred in both respects. I regret speaking up and
hope that this discussion will revert to a level below heaping pejoratives on
each other.
>
This is a perfect example of how thin the "veil of civilization" really is and
how easy it would be for people to start ripping each others heads off in a real
situation.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Vince" <vintagemotorad@...> wrote:
>
> Robbie, no hate but an over-enthusiastic defense of Sean. I am very new to
this group and have found the people to be genuinely interested in helping one
another. Ordinarily, I do not participate in such groups but the questions and
responses are helpful even to the lurkers, I want to see it flourish. Focus on
the bike and the happiness it brings and the rest will follow.
> Life is short but worth living to the fullest, I too hope this controversy is
a mere :"bump in the road" for this community and a personal learning moment for
us all.
>
> --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "robbie_thek@" <ansi41man@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Vince" <vintagemotorad@> wrote:
> > > Surfboards? What has any of this man's communication have to do with
surfboards, other than your shallow, pretentious and mean-spirited
judgemental-ism?
> > The Flightdeck had stickers for surfboards. I didn't mean to sound hateful
or to provoke hatred, but maybe I erred in both respects. I regret speaking up
and hope that this discussion will revert to a level below heaping pejoratives
on each other.
> >
>
No worries Sean--I've got my 3.5 year old sitting an a children's lawn chair
that I have band-clamped to the xtracycle. No straps, just a helmet.
My previous seat for her (a Wee Ride) had straps, but they weren't snug and the
harness had a way of working loose. I called the company and they told me it
was supposed to be that way--the straps were to keep her from leaving the seat
on her own, but not intended to keep her attached to the bike in a crash, which
makes alot of sense to me. I'm looking to add a stoker for her, but it is
remarkably good without one--good enough for my casual biking wife to be
comfortable commuting with it (and the little one) in NYC.
We have 2 wee-rides too. My middle son and I did about 800 miles with a wee-ride before he was able to switch to the back of the tandem. She likes back of the Dummy best though. Check out my stoker conversion that started this whole thread it is easy and really makes them feel like a real rider.
Sean
From: Toby Sheppard Bloch <tsb@...> To:
rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:21 AM Subject: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
No worries Sean--I've got my 3.5 year old sitting an a children's lawn chair that I have band-clamped to the xtracycle. No straps, just a helmet.
My previous seat for her (a Wee Ride) had straps, but they weren't snug and the harness had a way of working loose. I called the company and they told me it was supposed to be that way--the straps were to keep her from leaving the seat on her own, but not intended to keep her attached to the bike in a crash, which makes alot of sense to me. I'm looking to add a stoker for her, but it is remarkably good without one--good enough for my casual biking wife to be comfortable commuting with it (and the little one) in NYC.
I don't have a stoker bar or a child seat, just the snapdeck that came with my
Xtracyclekit. I have the snapdeck secured with cable ties as well as the normal
snaphooks. I always carry a spare helmet for passengers. Ribs, busted arms and
so on can all heal, but a single crack on the head can be fatal or disabling.
That said, I have carried lots of people, including total strangers walking
home, without anyone ever falling off.
I tell kids (and everyone else!) just to hang on tight and clamp a bit with
their knees. Some grip the deck, some hold onto my waist. Stoker bar sounds like
a good idea, I might put one together when I get around to it.
Biggest problem I find with kids is that they don't want to get off! "Go around
again! Go around again!" is the most common response
The road are wide and the traffic is very light here in Wagga Wagga, New South
Wales, Australia. Although it has only 60,000 people it is the largest inland
city in the most populated state in Australia. The biggest cities are all on the
coast.
It is funny, sometimes I pick up my boys from school on it. Everybody wants to hop on.
From: rayretrovox <ray@...> To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:04 PM Subject: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
I don't have a stoker bar or a child seat, just the snapdeck that came with my Xtracyclekit. I have the snapdeck secured with cable ties as well as the normal snaphooks. I always carry a spare helmet for passengers. Ribs, busted arms and so on can all heal, but a single crack on the head can be fatal or disabling. That said, I have carried lots of people, including total strangers walking home, without anyone ever falling off.
I tell kids (and everyone else!) just to hang on tight and clamp a bit with their knees. Some grip the deck, some hold onto my waist. Stoker bar sounds like a good idea, I might put one together when I get around to it.
Biggest problem I find with kids is that they don't want to get off! "Go around again! Go around again!" is the most common response
The road are wide and the traffic is very light here in Wagga Wagga, New South Wales, Australia. Although it has only 60,000 people it is the largest inland city in the most populated state in Australia. The biggest cities are all on the coast.
"Parent your own kids." Talk to any CPS worker about how many times they heard that line or some variant thereof--or how many times a neighbor has been told that and backed off until small, shrouded bodies were taken out of the house.
The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart. ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
Is that just a random, off-topic observation or do you have a point you want to make on the subject of cycling?
From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Alan Wilson Sent: 11 April 2012 04:43 To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Subject: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
"Parent your own kids." Talk to any CPS worker about how many times they heard that line or some variant thereof--or how many times a neighbor has been told that and backed off until small, shrouded bodies were taken out of the house.
The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart. ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
I don't have anything bad to say about anybody's parenting choices.
I will say that one perk of the plastic 'car-seat' style kid seats like the Peapod comes with the ability to be heavily strapped in for naptime. This gave me piece of mind when my daughter was smaller and would regularly fall asleep on rides. I'm not worried about her falling out so much as being comfortable while she's asleep. If she has a good nap going, I want her to stay asleep for a while, and I'll just add some distance and make the ride a little longer.
I don't have anything bad to say about anybody's parenting choices.
I will say that one perk of the plastic 'car-seat' style kid seats like the Peapod comes with the ability to be heavily strapped in for naptime. This gave me piece of mind when my daughter was smaller and would regularly fall asleep on rides. I'm not worried about her falling out so much as being comfortable while she's asleep. If she has a good nap going, I want her to stay asleep for a while, and I'll just add some distance and make the ride a little longer.
For years we rode a Madsen, which was really great for small kids, especially for naps. Now we use a kayak seat and stoker bars on a Radish. The kayak seat's straps connect to the saddle and wrap around the four-year old. Also she holds on.
I have a bike/kid-related question: I was talking about this with my wife, now that I'm riding a faster bike than the Madsen. What do you guys think a safe speed range is for a four-year old riding on the back of an X? My commute is 5 miles on residential roads and trails.
Sigh... I wasn't going to comment further about this, but, Really? For every
anecdotal "Heroic CPS" story you may have, I'm sure I can counter with an
"Abusive CPS" story... To equate a difference in child rearing philosophy with
body bags is in extremely poor taste.
We are here to support other longtail riders and celebrate life, not impose our
personal values on others.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Alan Wilson"
<bruce_alan_wilson@...> wrote:
>
> "Parent your own kids." Talk to any CPS worker about how many times they
heard that line or some variant thereof--or how many times a neighbor has been
told that and backed off until small, shrouded bodies were taken out of the
house.
>
>
>
> Bruce Alan Wilson
> http://www.wvdemolay.org/
> http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/bruce_alan_wilson
> http://signon.org/sign/lets-get-moving?source=c.fwd&r_by=2744828
>
> The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of
transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart.
~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
>
Most of the Child Protective Services employees should be arrested and
imprisoned for abuse of power and harassment, they are Sadists and Hate families
consisting of a Mother and Father.
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Alan Wilson"
<bruce_alan_wilson@...> wrote:
>
> "Parent your own kids." Talk to any CPS worker about how many times they
heard that line or some variant thereof--or how many times a neighbor has been
told that and backed off until small, shrouded bodies were taken out of the
house.
>
>
>
> Bruce Alan Wilson
> http://www.wvdemolay.org/
> http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/bruce_alan_wilson
> http://signon.org/sign/lets-get-moving?source=c.fwd&r_by=2744828
>
> The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of
transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart.
~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
>
Wow, the claws are out and the blood is really flying on this string. I'm not
even going to mention this graph with the United States on one end and the
Netherlands on the other, with the US having the Most bicycle helmet use, the
Most Cycling Deaths and the least bicycle use per population, and the
Netherlands having the Least Cycling Deaths and the Most bicycle use per
population....AND THEY DON'T WEAR HELMETS !!!!!!!
Not going to mention every where mandatory helmet laws go into effect: cycling
plummets, obesity rises, car use increases. I'm not even going to mention
bicycle helmets should be Banned.
"Stir the pot"
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@...> wrote:
>
> DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
>
> � So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my
Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been
throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap
slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap
to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much
better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so
long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that
would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would
fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for
putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I
have included some pictures.
>
>
> Sean
>
> Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom
before fitting).
>
> Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my part
collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If you are
curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
>
I apologize for my simple money saving part suggestion spiraling into this polarized string. Let's get back to what we all love; long tail bikes, riding them, enjoying them and enjoying the camaraderie with those who enjoy the same.
Thanks, Sean
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "rwieneke@..." <catrike@...>
Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 06:00:12 +0000
To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rootsradicals] Re: Cheap Stoker Conversion For Dummy
Wow, the claws are out and the blood is really flying on this string. I'm not even going to mention this graph with the United States on one end and the Netherlands on the other, with the US having the Most bicycle helmet use, the Most Cycling Deaths and the least bicycle use per population, and the Netherlands having the Least Cycling Deaths and the Most bicycle use per population....AND THEY DON'T WEAR HELMETS !!!!!!!
Not going to mention every where mandatory helmet laws go into effect: cycling plummets, obesity rises, car use increases. I'm not even going to mention bicycle helmets should be Banned.
"Stir the pot"
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Mackin <gear.head@...> wrote:
>
> DIY Stoker Bar Conversion,
>
> � So I have been hauling my 3 year old daughter around on the back of my Dummy for a few months (her mom was nervous she would fall off). I have been throwing a strap around her waist to the snap deck and having her hold a strap slung under the seat. The reason for the make shift set up was I was too cheap to buy a stoker stem. Xtracycle website has them for $55 and Ebay was not much better for just the stem. Then I had a brainstorm, not sure what took me so long. Anyway, I figured a cheap way around this would be to get a shim that would allow me to use a regular 1 1/8" stem out of my bike parts box that would fit my seat post. So I looked on Ebay and found a shim for a seat post for putting a 27.2 seat post in a 28.6 frame for less than $5 including shipping. I have included some pictures.
>
>
> Sean
>
> Picture 1. Stem out of my parts bin and seat shim
> Picture 2. Stem and shim test fit together (note: cut excess from bottom before fitting).
>
> Picture 3. How finished stoker bar looks. I had the bars and grips in my part collection. So I was able to do this whole conversion for $5 vs. $55. If you are curious I take the blinkie off when she is riding.
>
Long time lurker popping up long enough to salute you two fellers: Phaedrus
for making *exactly* the points that needed making in defense of Sean's
post.....and Sean for proving himself to be a class act, and then some. Cheers,
good sirs. ~ Mickyle
I butchered a topeak child seat and bolted it to a snapdeck. My little girl is 3.5, and I wavered for a while on weather I should do this or the stoker bar. This seat was easy enough and I had a seat laying around. I think she would be fine with the stoker set up and will probably move to that solution after this summer. Thanks for the shim idea that will save some bucks for sure.
This is a picture of the radish with a kayak seat on the back--I'll post another pic later so you all can see it later. It's worked really well and the 4 1/2-year-old can buckle and unbuckle herself--an added bonus!
This is how we connected a kayak seat to the longtail. It adjusts to squeeze two in there, but it's better to have the older one hang on in back of the seat. Mine fight when they're squeezed together, which makes it hard to balance...or be happy.
Can you tell me which kayak seat that is? I have looked a quite a few and they
all look huge.
FWIW, I have my 5-YO on the rear deck on a magic carpet. Bar ends for foot
rests, and an upside-down/reveresed bullhorn stoker bar (using a std MTB stem
with a shim like the OP).
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Jesse Ross <jessejross@...> wrote:
>
> This is how we connected a kayak seat to the longtail. It adjusts to
> squeeze two in there, but it's better to have the older one hang on in back
> of the seat. Mine fight when they're squeezed together, which makes it hard
> to balance...or be happy.
>
Can you tell me which kayak seat that is? I have looked a quite a few and they all look huge.
FWIW, I have my 5-YO on the rear deck on a magic carpet. Bar ends for foot rests, and an upside-down/reveresed bullhorn stoker bar (using a std MTB stem with a shim like the OP).
--- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Jesse Ross <jessejross@...> wrote:
>
> This is how we connected a kayak seat to the longtail. It adjusts to
> squeeze two in there, but it's better to have the older one hang on in back
> of the seat. Mine fight when they're squeezed together, which makes it hard
> to balance...or be happy.
>
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