Douglas A. Anderson wrote...

>I believe it was called Der Joker in Germany, where it was made.  The US
title is _Lethal
>Obsession_.  It came out in 1987, and "starred" Elliott Gould and Michael
York, though
>they didn't appear on the screen all that much.  It actually has Jonathan
Carroll's name
>on it, and it is the only film I know of which does.


You're absolutely right, Douglas. Sorry, I got confused with another title.
Got the Joker bit right though :) (if you're German)

>    It is a cop movie, and it's confusing and not that thrilling.  My
recollection from
>viewing it several years ago was that the only Carrollian element in the
entire picture
>was the hitman who carried his two dogs, Salt and Pepper, with him on the
job.


Hasn't Carroll used Salt and Pepper as pet names somewhere else too? Seems
familiar to me....

>    Carroll doesn't seem to want to talk about his film work, but I
remember one interview
>where he said that he wasn't particularly happy with what was done to his
script for
>Lethal Obsession.  One wonders what the script itself was like, compared to
the finished
>product....


I wonder if the hitman was similar to Mr Pencil, the hitman in Weber
Gregston film, 'Wonderful' from Sleeping in Flame? I've noticed there are
many fragments/hints of stories that Carroll alludes to in his books,
possibly ideas that were used in his film work???

I've also been thinking about a synopsis of 'Wes Craven's New Nightmare'
that I read today that seems to have some things in common with Child Across
the Sky in that it's about a horror director's realtionship with his
creation that takes on a life of it's own. It's on tv soon and I think it's
worth a look even if I'm not usually a fan of Craven's work.

Regards

Richard Berry

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Richard Berry wrote:

>I think one of these is called 'Joker of Love.'  Although, like most of the
>projects he's been involved in for Hollywood, it was distilled so much that
>his name is no longer on the credits. I've never seen it, but it appears to
>be a cop movie!

I believe it was called Der Joker in Germany, where it was made.  The US title
is _Lethal
Obsession_.  It came out in 1987, and "starred" Elliott Gould and Michael York,
though
they didn't appear on the screen all that much.  It actually has Jonathan
Carroll's name
on it, and it is the only film I know of which does.
     It is a cop movie, and it's confusing and not that thrilling.  My
recollection from
viewing it several years ago was that the only Carrollian element in the entire
picture
was the hitman who carried his two dogs, Salt and Pepper, with him on the job.
     Carroll doesn't seem to want to talk about his film work, but I remember one
interview
where he said that he wasn't particularly happy with what was done to his script
for
Lethal Obsession.  One wonders what the script itself was like, compared to the
finished
product....

Best to all,

D.


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jre wrote....

>
>Hello everyone. Carroll in the movies? The funny thing is, any of the
>movies you mentioned could very well have been ghost written or edited
>by Carroll. He's admitted as much in his interviews. I don't think he
>uses an alternate name (nom de plum...sp?) when he does this, however,
>he just opts not to get writing credit.


I think one of these is called 'Joker of Love.'  Although, like most of the
projects he's been involved in for Hollywood, it was distilled so much that
his name is no longer on the credits. I've never seen it, but it appears to
be a cop movie!

> I've always felt that Jacob's Ladder was similiar to Carroll's work in
>many ways...moments of extremely effective sentimentality interspersed
>with horror.


Thar was a great movie with a great ending too.

>Well, I'm new to the list and I promise to think of something
>entertaining to contribute. In the mean time, I need some advice. I'm
>down to three Carroll books that I've yet to read; The Panic Hand,
>Sleeping In Flame, and Bones Of the Moon. Which should I tackle first?
>It's a pity that JC isn't more successful in the states, finding his
>books can be a real chore.
>

Sleeping in Flame now, then Panic Hand. Save Bones for the summer and read
it outside on a hot day (at least that's what I did and have always thought
of it as a summer book. Also, if, like me, you can read it just before going
half-way around the world on holiday then I think you'll enjoy it even more.
If only one could get on a flight to Rondua, eh?).

Richard Berry

berryr@...

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I've always thought that the film "Breaking the Waves" had its
Carroll moments.
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>Lately I have been noticing - perhaps more so than usual -
>that just about every other advertisement I see for a new film
>or many TV shows makes me say, "So, are they paying
>Jonathan Carroll royalties for that?" None of the films of his books
>have happened yet, but it seems that lately Hollywood feels like giving
>us a lot of things with the texture of his work. >

>But I'm curious to know if other JC fans see this
>tendency in the entertainment world... and what recent film
>or TV offerings you all feel could also be accused of being
>"Carroll-Lite".
>


Hi and welcome to the list.

I've also noticed this trend, although it's debatable wether pop culture has
been inspired by JC or if it just happens, for the moment, to be standing in
the same place as he's always been.

I thought some elements of 'the Game' felt like Carroll. The sense of unseen
forces, a nice feeling of paranoia - especially the scene in the Hospital
Parking lot. Devil's Advocate, another deeply flawed film, has a scene on
the subway which reminded me of something Carroll might do. Another film
with a metaphysical theme is City of Angels (although the original Wings of
Desire is better, and more in tune with Carroll). There's a new film with
Brad Pitt and Anthony Hopkins in which Death is a main character... is this
Meet Joe Black? I've also heard good things about a less recent movie called
the Prophecy, with Christopher Walken. Can anyone recommend this film?

Certainly TV shows like Millenium and the X-files are tapping into Millenial
tension and a growing superstition that's rife in the 90s. I think it's
similar to the paranoia-drenched films of the mid/late 70s that followed
Nixon and Vietnam. Although now it's not just the government we distrust,
it's also God and each other. I've always found these themes deep in
Carroll's
work, especially the way his characters often turn out to really be someone
else. It's easy and often lucrative for filmmakers to try and speak to these
fears but rarely are they able to carry it off as well as Carroll. The Usual
Suspects is a rare example of a film with an ending as unexpected and
stunning as, say, Voice of Our Shadow. I had the same response to this movie
as I did to Voice. I had to watch it again.

As usual, Carroll said it best... 'I'm telling you, paranoia is the growth
industry of the 90s'

Richard Berry

berryr@...

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Hi, everyone! I'm new on the list. I've been trying to join for
some time but having many problems... and it seems that
no one is talking, lately. Don't worry... netiquette-wise,
I'm "housebroken". :)

Lately I have been noticing - perhaps more so than usual -
that just about every other advertisement I see for a new film
or many TV shows makes me say, "So, are they paying
Jonathan Carroll royalties for that?" None of the films of his books
have happened yet, but it seems that lately Hollywood feels like giving
us a lot of things with the texture of his work. I'm reading a
synopsis of an upcoming X-Files episode ("The Rain King")
and thinking to myself, so far, "Isn't there an early JC story
about something like that? Wouldn't he *write* something like
that, only... better?"

The recent movie "Meet Joe Black" - which was slow as
molasses - it was based on "Death Takes A Holiday", but
it felt to me in parts like a sugar-coated Carroll story. So
many other things I have seen advertisements for lately have
made me wonder how many executives sit down with copies
of "The Panic Hand" and the novels and say, "O-kaaaaay,
what can we lighten up for an American audience? Is there
a role for Drew Barrymore or Sandra Bullock in it?"

I suppose it could be a general indication of the tendency to
allow non-linear/surreal/paranormal events to affect otherwise
fairly normal character studies - that it's just coming from the
same wellspring of the psyche, and JC happens to be more
skilled, fresh, less hackneyed, more surprising.
But I'm curious to know if other JC fans see this
tendency in the entertainment world... and what recent film
or TV offerings you all feel could also be accused of being
"Carroll-Lite".

frogs and fishes from Elizabeth
who is thrilled to have finally located "The Land of Laughs" recently
(the missing piece!)

thessaly@...
http://www.gothic.net/~thessaly/
"The future's so bright, I have to get one of those
super-huge mag-lights to see a damn thing."
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In a message dated 12/14/98 10:49:32 AM, mrwrite@... wrote:

<<so this is a test of the eGroups email list system.>>

Loud and clear......just a busy time here

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE
Jill
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Hello, Ronduaites!

I've been informed that some people are signing up for the list and not
getting any messages, so this is a test of the eGroups email list system.

If this had been a real message, it would have had something glowing to
say about Jonathan.

glen

--
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engel-cox@...     Reading Diary: http://www.sfsite.com/fi/
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Some of you may be familiar with the name Eric S. Raymond. He's a known
programmer, a spokesman for the OpenSource innitiative (www.opensource.org)
and perhaps best known as the author/editor of the Jargon File, a.k.a. New
Hacker's Dictionary (www.jargon.org). An all-round rational person... A
good writer, too. I read some of his essays the other day, and one sent
shivers down my spine. The story is extremely personal, and it's
(apaprently) fact, not fiction - that's what makes it more terrifying, or
more wonderful, depending :) - but one sure thing is that it re-enacts
precisely what happens to Carroll's characters - in Voice of Our Shadow, in
Sleeping in Flame or Child Across the Sky - as narrated from Venasque's
perspective, perhaps. It's called "Dancing with Gods", and the title itself
sounds like a Carroll story. But fact *is* stranger than fiction... You'll
know what I mean when you get to the line about the leaves. Can't say more
without spoiling the effect, but I think may of you *will* shudder. Highly
recommended, and it's not very long.

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html

greetings to all,
.marek jedlinski

--
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Joe is there anyway that you can confirm whether or not I am actually
signed up for these drawings? I think that I am, but I would rather be
sure then sorry.

Thanks...

Shane Leonard


joe@...,.Internet writes:
>Hello-

>Collectors and Jonathan Carroll fans have long sought after rare 1st
>edition prints of Carroll's masterpiece, The Land of Laughs. In
>association
>with Amazon Books, The Jonathan Carroll web site is beginning a very
>exciting contest with a signed 1st Edition hardback of The Land of
>Laughs
>as the grand prize. Second prize is another collector's piece, a signed
>American hardback of Bones of the Moon with the alternate ending.

>The Q&A section has been updated as well.

>Joe del Tufo
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Hello-

Collectors and Jonathan Carroll fans have long sought after rare 1st
edition prints of Carroll's masterpiece, The Land of Laughs. In association
with Amazon Books, The Jonathan Carroll web site is beginning a very
exciting contest with a signed 1st Edition hardback of The Land of Laughs
as the grand prize. Second prize is another collector's piece, a signed
American hardback of Bones of the Moon with the alternate ending.

The Q&A section has been updated as well.

Joe del Tufo


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My question wasn't particularly original but I really wanted to know the answer:
"What is the most important thing for you as a writer?"
And he answered: "The most important thing for me as a writher is to be able to
tell you a story in such way, that you would forget you wanted to drink some
tea, and only the sound of the tea-kettle would bring you back to the reality
from the world I've created".
Other people asked about his fears, dreams, some magical aspects of his life.
One guy asked him, if he was a God! He said: "Write the word GOD and stand in
front of the mirror. You'll see the word DOG. That's what I am."

Justyna
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>>  Some questions were  O.K., some were really stupid but for me it was
>>extremely exciting as he had  answered my question too.

>So, what was your question?

>Congrats on your acquisitions.

I'd also like to know what he sounds like, having been enchanted by his
words for so long without ever hearing him speak.

Rich


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At 1:29 PM +0100 11/11/98, Justyna Jowik wrote:
>  Some questions were  O.K., some were really stupid but for me it was
>extremely exciting as he had  answered my question too.

So, what was your question?

Congrats on your acquisitions.

Neal


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Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by  () on
Monday, November 9, 1998 at 21:42:21
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

question: This isn't a question, just something perhaps you should publish
for  Jonathan Carroll fans in America who cannot find his books.

http://www.darkcarnival.com/

This is a California company that sells used/rare books and they are HUGE
fans of Jonathan Carroll. I was able to mail order four of his books from
there, including an autographed copy of Bones of the Moon for about $20.

This may be a good resource for his fans.
Thanks,
Joe Chizmas

name: Joe Chizmas

SUBMIT: SEND FORM

email address: jchizmas@...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


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FYI:  The question and answer section (select "Collaborate") was updated
this morning.

We will soon be announcing a contest to win a signed, 1st edition hardcopy
of The Land of Laughs.  As many of you know, this is perhaps the most
sought-after Carroll collectible fetching between $200-$300 for a piece in
nice condition.  The promotion will be held with Amazon Books.  Details to
follow.

Joe


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Last word on A MARRIAGE OF STICKS is April '98 (followed soon thereafter by
the re-release of LAND OF LAUGHS) in the UK only.  US distribution is still
being negotiated, but I would assume the US release will be delayed because
of it.

Joe

>Any word on a new Carroll book soon?
>


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Any word on a new Carroll book soon?
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Few things,

1. Glen can you do you snail mail addy, I have a copy of REDBRICK EDEN
waiting to sail to you.

2. For anyone interested, check out

http://www.geocities.com/athens/oracle/4552

it's got some of my fiction up there, and news about the 3 novels coming
out, the two new new anthologies and various projects I am in on...
including a cd rom version of my second novel launching in February.
Okay, I ain't JC ,) but gimme a coupla thousand years and I'll find a
way to clone him....

Steve Savile

Oh and please sign the guestbook if you drop by... I want to see you
all...


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SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com/) has just released its mid-October issue, and
they have updated their Jonathan Carroll reading list to reflect the official
web site.  See the list at http://www.sfsite.com/lists/jcarr.htm.

glen

--
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engel-cox@...     Reading Diary: http://www.sfsite.com/fi/
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Tomasz-

The movie sounds fascinating, I'll look around for it here.

Don't like Venasque???  Heresy!

Did you know Carroll doing a massive signing/ promo tour in Poland this
month?  I'll try to get details, but he is doing the full TV/ Magazine/
Reading thing.

Joe

>Hi there - back in the group again,
>
>I wonder if anyone of you had an opportunity to see a movie called "The Man
>With Rain In His Shoes". It is an English film, made 1998, directed by
>Maria Ripoll and written by Rafa Russo. I've seen it last Sunday at the
>Warsaw Film Festival (a great opportunity to see many movies from all over
>the world, some of them without any chance to get to the cinemas).
>
>I don't want to spoil the pleasure of watching that movie, so I won't give
>away the plot. I can tell you only that it's a love story, with people
>trying to change something that already went wrong. It's in some way like
>one of Carroll's "magic" stories, but it's told with much more sense of
>humour. It lacks that what I don't like in Carroll's books: the main
>characters speaking round sentences about love and death, and presence of
>annoying gurus like Venasque (yes, I don't like him).
>
>
>Tomasz Konatkowski
>tomaszko@...
>
>PS: If you want to find some information about the film festival, go to
>http://www.wff.org.pl. You can find the English text there too.
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
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I've only just discovered that Rondua has changed servers so this may be a
bit out of date now but I was wondering what everyone thought about Message
in a Bottle

I thought it was a riot. I especially liked the more 'hollywood' aspects of
the tale, like the truck chase (JC doing Raiders of the Lost Ark) and the
inspired Tram chase... how long before that idea is stolen for a summer
block-buster. These elements suprised me, not what I'm used to getting from
Carroll but I warmed to them immediatedly.

Of course, all the usual Carrol touches are there - sharp dialogue, a love
of the bizarre (I thought the scene in the restaurant with the Saruvian
dishes was excellent), unreliable story-tellers (Cthulu's Pinnochio story)
and, as always, the jab in the eye in the last second.

I've been trying to think who would direct this film. I think James Cameron
would do a good job, not because of Titanic but because of True Lies - a
great Bond pastiche, which, on reflection, is what Message in a Bottle could
be pitched as (but is the villain Chthulu or advertising?)

I've just checked the Carroll site and am pleased to see more screenplays
for me to enjoy. Many thanks to Joe del Tufo for all the goodies.

Rich.

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Hi there - back in the group again,

I wonder if anyone of you had an opportunity to see a movie called "The Man
With Rain In His Shoes". It is an English film, made 1998, directed by
Maria Ripoll and written by Rafa Russo. I've seen it last Sunday at the
Warsaw Film Festival (a great opportunity to see many movies from all over
the world, some of them without any chance to get to the cinemas).

I don't want to spoil the pleasure of watching that movie, so I won't give
away the plot. I can tell you only that it's a love story, with people
trying to change something that already went wrong. It's in some way like
one of Carroll's "magic" stories, but it's told with much more sense of
humour. It lacks that what I don't like in Carroll's books: the main
characters speaking round sentences about love and death, and presence of
annoying gurus like Venasque (yes, I don't like him).


Tomasz Konatkowski
tomaszko@...

PS: If you want to find some information about the film festival, go to
http://www.wff.org.pl. You can find the English text there too.


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Don't forget Denton's short story collection, ONE STEP CLOSER TO DEATH, which
also
includes as Blackburn story....

D.


>I strongly second the recommendation.  LUNATICS is a wonderful, magical
>book that could easily have been a Carroll creation, and what an unexpected
>read after the gripping, gothic slasherfest BLACKBURN.  Denton is another
>writer who has been sadly overlooked.  One of his earlier novels, BUDDY
>HOLLY IS ALIVE AND WELL AND LIVING ON GANYMEDE is also a great read.  The
>guys got an amazing, twisted creative streak that is refreshing in these
>days of formula mush.
>


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I strongly second the recommendation.  LUNATICS is a wonderful, magical
book that could easily have been a Carroll creation, and what an unexpected
read after the gripping, gothic slasherfest BLACKBURN.  Denton is another
writer who has been sadly overlooked.  One of his earlier novels, BUDDY
HOLLY IS ALIVE AND WELL AND LIVING ON GANYMEDE is also a great read.  The
guys got an amazing, twisted creative streak that is refreshing in these
days of formula mush.

Hey, has anyone read "Shoes At War" or "The Idiot Heart" from the web site?
I'm itching to talk about them, as they are very unusual pieces for Carroll.

Joe

>Having not read anything by Carroll lately I thought I'd mention a
>(seemingly) Carroll-esque book I'm reading at the moment -- "Lunatics" by
>Bradley Denton. Although I've only read the first chapter it does feature a
>guy who falls in love with a woman who has clawed feet and claims to be the
>Goddess of the Moon. Definitely strange and fanstastical. Anyone else read
>this?
>
>Adrian.
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>
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Having not read anything by Carroll lately I thought I'd mention a
(seemingly) Carroll-esque book I'm reading at the moment -- "Lunatics" by
Bradley Denton. Although I've only read the first chapter it does feature a
guy who falls in love with a woman who has clawed feet and claims to be the
Goddess of the Moon. Definitely strange and fanstastical. Anyone else read
this?

Adrian.


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A search of the Andromeda books site http://www.andromedasf.co.uk/  will yield
several titles.

In the US, Dark Carnival Bookstore (my choice- www.darkcarnival.com) had these
titles last I checked, and they may have added to it (email Jack Rems
Jack@... and ask him for an updated list):

Here's our current JC list, although a
couple of these are very low stock:
LAND OF LAUGHS, we have stopped producing our version; it will be reissued
next May['99] by Doubleday.
VOICE OF OUR SHADOW $13.95--this is a uk import.
BONES OF THE MOON -signed US 1st, $20
SLEEPING IN FLAME vintage pb $13, doubleday hc signed $17.95; not signed $7.99
A CHILD ACROSS THE SKY  pb 7.99
BLACK COCKTAIL $5  pb
OUTSIDE THE DOG MUSEUM hc $20; import pb 13.95
AFTER SILENCE tr $12
FROM THE TEETH OF ANGELS tp $12, hc $22
THE PANIC HAND us hc 23.95 (contains BLACK COCKTAIL and A FLASH IN THE
PANTS that are not in uk edition.)
KISSING THE BEEHIVE us hc $22.95


All of his books are available, on paperback at worst.

Joe del Tufo

Hi,
>
> Does anyone know where there is a good source of JC books in the UK ? =
> This guy is always out of print <growl>. Everytime I want to introduce =
> JC to my friends, can I find any books ? <big growl>.
>
> Thanks
>
> Robin Law.
>
> "Accepting the gift honours the giver" - Stephen Donaldson
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
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>



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Hi,

Does anyone know where there is a good source of JC books in the UK ? This guy
is always out of print <growl>. Everytime I want to introduce JC to my friends,
can I find any books ? <big growl>.

Thanks

Robin Law.

"Accepting the gift honours the giver" - Stephen Donaldson


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