richardiiisocietyforum : Message: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Gay

Well, of course, we don't really know, as with the question of what
actually killed Henry VIII. I've read some of Edward II's letters to
Isabella and they come over as desperately querulous and weak,
whereas, Isabella - the so-called she-wolf of France - mounted an
expedition against Edward and instead of the normal anniversary
present, it's reported that he received a red hot poker thrust up his
rectum. This may say a lot about their relationship. A woman as
strong willed as Isabella and a man as weak as Edward, which is borne
out by his inglorious reign in general, may well have tolerated
someone else doing the honours under the sheets. Louis X & Enrique IV
may well have been of stronger mettle than Edward. Highly likely in
fact.

Nevertheless, we don't really know and this is simply an 'historical
doubt' - an evaluation of the personalities involved.

It's also rumoured & supported by correspondence, that Marie
Antoinette took a lover: Count Ferson, as she remained without child
for 7 years, because of some inadequacy on the part of Louis XVI. In
fact, sexual inadequacy, whether because of homosexuality, biological
defect or simply shyness, is more common than is thought.

If you asked me to put my hand on my heart and say that no bastard was
ever passed off as the legitimate heir, I wouldn't be able to do that.
Some of these Royal residences were full of secret doors & passageways
and a strong-willed woman - I've yet to meet a weak-willed one -
could've forced the issue if her children were not going to be born by
any other means. Richard III clouded the issue by saying that
pre-contracts legitimized any offspring. After all, the founder of
the entire dynasty: William the Conqueror, was himself illegitimate.

--- In richardiiisocietyforum@yahoogroups.com, aelyon2001
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> David
>
> I'm not sure I'm convinced by your pot calling the kettle black
> argument. Double standards are far from uncommon, and would, I
think,> come into play if there was any risk of a bastard being passed
off as> a potential heir to the throne. I'll reiterate that Isabella's
> brother Louis X repudiated the daughter born to his first wife, had
> the wife smothered and hastily married again in order to produce a
> child whose paternity was not in doubt (some might think it poetic
> justice that his son by his second wife was born posthumously, and
> died when less than a week old).
>
> Much later, in the 1460s, Enrique IV of Castile dithered for years
> over the daughter born to his second wife, who was very probably not
> his, before finally repudiating her in favour of his half-sister
> Isabella the Catholic. His first marriage was unconsummated;
> chroniclers refer to physical malformation, and attempts were made
at
> artificial insemination through a brass tube. His second wife
> certainly had a lover, Don Beltran de la Cueva, at the time the
child
> was conceived, and the infant was known universally as Juana 'la
> Beltraneja'.
>
> Ann
>
>
>
> --- In richardiiisocietyforum@yahoogroups.com, DAVID WILLISON
> <willison2001@y...> wrote:
> > The big problem with homosexuality from a Christian
> > viewpoint is that it doesn't lead to reproduction,
> > which is thought to be God's will, and is seen as
> > selfish in that it is performed purely for pleasure
> > and not the production of bambinos, as God has
> > ordained.
> >
> > Richard I was openly condemned for sodomy by the
> > Church and Edward II was widely seen to be committed
> > to this way of life, which makes me think that his
> > wife probably wondered what she'd let herself in for.
> > Isabella may've resented Edward's affection for
> > Gaveston from the start and there is evidence that
> > some gays have a deep aversion to women, so if
> > Isabella sought lovers elsewhere, as she did later
> > quite openly with Roger Mortimer, it may well have
> > been felt that this was no more scandalous than
> > Edward's sexual life, which was openly known.
> > Contemporary chronicles report him as a sodomite with
> > Gaveston, etc., If, as a result of a mutual breakdown
> > in their relationship, Isabella did get someone else
> > to Father her children, was the openly gay Edward in a
> > position to object? Pots find it difficult to call
> > kettles black!
> >
> > --- Jessica Rydill <la@l...> wrote:
> > <HR>
> > <html><body>
> >
> >
> > <tt>
> > > >The word "bugger" comes from
> > Bulgar, as the heretical sect the Bogomils, 
> > > >from Bulgaria, were alleged to have been
> > sodomites. 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I've never paid a great deal of attention to this
> > issue, so I may be 
> > > misremembering something I didn't quite hear --
> > but wasn't "sodomy" much 
> > > more broadly defined to include practicallly
> > anything that didn't include 
> > > the use of the approved orifice as a
> > receptacle? 
> > > 
> > I am sure you are right, Laura.  I have not
> > studied canonical history, only 
> > read the odd book about Cathars etc.  I think
> > heretics tended to be accused 
> > of antinomianism which suggested (in the lurid view of
> > their adversaries) 
> > that they were capable of just about anything. 
> > (I think antinomianism 
> > involves a belief that "Anything goes"). 
> > 
> > 
> > </tt>
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
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