Dear Colleagues, I have just finished my doctoral thesis (in Hungarian language) about a presupposed "Apocalyptic" category in art, and generally, in ...
Dear Colleagues, I have just finished my doctoral thesis (in Hungarian language) about a presupposed "Apocalyptic" category in art, and generally, in ...
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revelation-list@yahoo...
Nov 23, 2006 2:37 pm
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the revelation-list group. File :...
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David L Barr
david.barr@...
Oct 16, 2006 1:55 pm
I want to endorse Lyn's comment about Chris' book. I had a chance to review it for CBQ; I'll paste it below for those interested. David L. Barr Wright State...
I cannot pronounce myself on this special issue, since I'm not a specialist in this aspect of the Revelation, but this is a good opportunity for me to try to...
Actually, Spectacles of Empire is a well written and insightful work. I would highly recommend it to anyone who is doing work on Revelation in relation to the...
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KennethGentry@...
Oct 14, 2006 1:50 am
In a message dated 10/13/2006 3:10:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... "EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM" Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Th.D. Revelation is the most difficult...
Almost, but not quite. The difference is that those whom he labels "as not being Jews are probably the more negative ones. george gfsomsel ... From: Ramsey...
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Ramsey Michaels
profram@...
Oct 13, 2006 9:38 pm
Isn't that just a more polite way of saying the same thing? Alternatively, if those who say they are Jews and are not are actually Judaizing Gentiles, then...
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David Scholer
dscholer@...
Oct 13, 2006 9:03 pm
For what it is worth, I agree. I will look for Rob's article, which I had not seen. The discussion of this whole issue has been fun. As G. K. Chesterton...
I agree that the Jews in Rev 2:9 are ethnic jews. As for the two groups in Rev 7, I have recently published an Article in Biblica 86 (2005) 396-406 titled...
When the identities of the "Jews" and the 144,00 are considered, one issue to be addressed is how John understood the source and nature of the conflict the...
Twice John sees the world in a two part taxonomy of Jews and Gentiles: 7.1-9 (144,000 from Israel and innumerable Gentiles) and 14.1-6 (144,000 on Mt Zion and...
No, I don't think the author of the Apocalypse means that when a Jew calls himself a Jew he is lying. What I think he is saying is that the then current...
Since the whole Church is represented by the innumerable multitude and the two groups are clearly distinguished, I don't think it likely that the 144,000 would...
I would take that as referring to ethnic Jews who opposed the Church. Remember that after Jamnia there was considerable antipathy for Christians. I believe...
Colleagues, David Barr's helpful reference to very recent (too recent for libraries at my institution) articles from Friesen and Duff has helped turn the ...
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David L Barr
david.barr@...
Oct 13, 2006 2:55 pm
Colleagues: I would like to recommend two articles that I think complicate this discussion; they both appear in *The Reality of Apocalypse: Rhetoric and ...
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Ramsey Michaels
profram@...
Oct 13, 2006 1:47 pm
If ethnic Jews are meant, isn't John saying that when a Jew calls himself a Jew he is lying? Is that what we should say to our Jewish friends? Does a Jew stop...
Due to the fact that the number is given as precisely 144,000 as opposed to an innumerable multitude, I would say that these are the faithful Jews of the Old...
Jon Newton wrote: "I have been absent from this group for about 2 years. Has anyone any comments on Frilingos' 'Spectacles of Empire'?" Jon Newton, You might...
Kenneth Gentry wrote: "I have a brief paper on 1:7 from this perspective that I could post on revelation-list if anyone would like for me to." I would very...
Sinclair Stable wrote: "I was wondering if the group could give the understanding of Rev 2:9; 3:9." I was about to ask you to search the (old) archives, as I...
I have been absent from this group for about 2 years. Has anyone any comments on Frilingos' "Spectacles of Empire"? Jon Newton Tabor College NSW, Australia...
Two brief comments: Some commentators see the 144,000 as another way of viewing the whole church, i.e. under the image of the ancient Israelite tribes numbered...
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KennethGentry@...
Oct 13, 2006 2:25 am
In a message dated 10/12/2006 9:20:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I, too, believe the Jews in 2:9 and 3:9 are ethnic Jews. My understanding of Revelation is...
I agree [ethnic Jews], though there is a related question here, still unanswered in my own mind. The Apocalypse clearly understands the "people of God" to be...
I would agree with Dr. Scholer that the Jews mentioned in Rev. 2.9, and 3.9 are ethnic Jews. I am unaware of any reason to understand the references in any...
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David Scholer
dscholer@...
Oct 12, 2006 11:33 pm
My recent PhD student, Philip Mayo, wrote his dissertation on Revelation and the Jews. It has now been published by Wipf and Stock in the Princeton Monograph...
beloved, I was wondering if the group could give the understanding of Rev 2:9; 3:9. Spacifically if the identity of "Jews" is of ethnic origin = children from...
