One must not restrict oneself to either Enoch or Jubilees for the background of chiliastic thought. Papias was known to be a chiliast saying The days will...
1133
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
May 29, 2010 6:40 pm
That would be the Apocalypse of Baruch 29:1-8. I believe Jubilees precedes it by two or three hundred years....
1134
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
May 29, 2010 6:45 pm
That's about right. It was found at Qumran so we know with certainty that it existed then. As I recall the Qumran calendar differed from that of the Temple...
1135
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
May 29, 2010 6:48 pm
Incidentally, perhaps I shouldn't think things are too obvious, but I was struck by the similarity between the Papias quotation and that of 2 Baruch. george...
1136
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
May 29, 2010 7:47 pm
And rightly so Jan! I will also mention that Jubilees chapter 23 and 1:26-29 may be associated with the temporary messianic reign. I think that might be given...
1137
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
May 29, 2010 10:17 pm
Of course, ultimately the concept of chiliasm goes back to the "world week" in which the world is to last 7 days of 1000 years each. george gfsomsel …...
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Jon Newton
jonknewton
May 29, 2010 11:30 pm
I'm not sure it's as "obvious" as that Looking at Jewish writings pre-Revelation, the world week is one strand but the idea of a preliminary reign of messiah...
1139
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Nov 11, 2010 3:03 pm
http://rochesterfirst.tv/go.php...
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e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Today there is little agreement on exactly what the Apocalypse is saying. There are several major ideas that believers tend to cluster around such as preterism...
1141
Jon Newton
jonknewton
Jan 13, 2011 10:15 pm
Very interesting article, Alan. Good to see allegorical readings of Revelation being put forward again. However, I see some areas that may be in tension with...
1142
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 1:23 am
I am really less concerned with the historically manifested schools of interpretation of the Apocalypse than I am with interpreting it according to its own...
1143
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 1:36 am
Thank you very much Dr. Newton, and thank you for your questions. In my scheme the association of the abomination of desolation with 70 AD is due to a Jewish...
1144
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 2:45 am
Thank you for your input. The primary idea that I'm basing my theory on is that pre-Christian Palestinian Jewish interpretation was wrong. The Jews didn't...
1145
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 3:14 am
I think you'll find that what was considered to be wrong in the Jewish interpretation was an emphasis upon a literal 1000 year period of a messianic reign upon...
1146
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 6:02 am
I see three periods of past influence on interpreting biblical prophecy that have contributed to today's diverse views. A. The pre-Christian teachings of...
1147
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 6:16 am
7 And Papias, of whom we are now speaking, confesses that he received the words of the apostles from those that followed them, but says that he was himself a ...
1148
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 7:45 am
1 There are extant five books of Papias, which bear the title Expositions of Oracles of the Lord. Irenaeus makes mention of these as the only works written by...
1149
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 2:50 pm
Thank you for re-posting the comments of Eusebius that were discussed in April. You may remember that Eusebius changed his eschatology after Rome adopted...
1150
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 4:10 pm
Offhand, I don't recall that Eusebius changed his eschatology though he did change his Christology depending upon which direction the political winds seemed to...
1151
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 5:14 pm
Thank you, Here is the article about Eusebius. http://www.jstor.org/pss/1583992 I am saying what Cerinthius believed was something diffferent than Papias...
1152
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 5:31 pm
Dionysius of Alexandria wrote to oppose a chiliast view before Eusebius as well. 1 Besides all these the two books on the Promises were prepared by him. The ...
1153
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 6:02 pm
Yes. I wrote earlier; ... taught in the Christian tradition, besides the heretic Cerinthius, until Nepos of Egypt.<< Dionysius wrote in response to Nepos, and...
1154
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 6:08 pm
Dionysius convinced Nepos of nothing. 4 "But since they bring forward a certain work of Nepos, on which they rely confidently, as if it proved beyond dispute...
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e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 6:35 pm
Thank you George. You have corrected me on that point....
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e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 6:52 pm
I note that even Eusebius calls it a private opinion by Nepos, and not a wide spread doctrine of the early church. He also refers to it as "Jewish." Eusebius,...
1157
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 7:07 pm
The text to which you refer is, in the Greek, δόξας γοῦν οὗτος ἐκ τῆς Ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰωάννου τὴν ἰδίαν...
1158
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 7:48 pm
It comes out like this on my screen. ... That's okay since I'm not a Greek scholar. Is it different than my English version? Thanks, Alan Fuller...
1159
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 8:48 pm
If you can't read what I sent then you need to adjust the settings in your browser to show UTF-8 characters. When I send Greek or Hebrew in any other forum...
1160
e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
Jan 14, 2011 9:03 pm
I apologize for my ignorance of Greek. Here is what I get when I translate to English. At any rate the latter from the glory of his Apokal?pseos John id?an...
1161
George F Somsel
gfsomsel
Jan 14, 2011 9:21 pm
No, it has nothing to do with "solving my own Scripture" it is simply 2 Pet 1.20 which states that no scripture is subject to one's own interpretation. This...
