radio-programming : Messages : 48377-53896 of 82678

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#53853

From: "G.H. Lang" <wolfy@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 3:50 pm
Subject: RE: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

akeila_wolf

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By your last sentence, you just eliminated every radio on the market....

NC Highway Patrol used to use 33mhz range, Fire/EMS/LEO use/used to use

145-174 range, and others use or used to used UHF, while many are now

700/800/900 range...



Personally, this thread of emails needs to stop.  If any want to bitch and

complain about software sharing it needs to be taken off group or somewhere

else.



Nuff Said



Wolfy



   _____



From: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:radio-programming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stan Rutledge

Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:42 AM

To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing











Then in all fairness every radio should come with programing software or be

be field programable.Law enforcment radios excluded



--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Evan Platt <evan@espphotography

<mailto:evan%40espphotography.com> .com> wrote:



From: Evan Platt <evan@espphotography <mailto:evan%40espphotography.com>

.com>

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

To: radio-programming@ <mailto:radio-programming%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 9:30 AM



At 07:34 AM 5/1/2009, you wrote:

>there is fair compensation and then there is Motorola



Regardless, there's laws.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#53854

From: Evan Platt <evan@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 5:37 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

phirephoto

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Send Email

At 08:30 AM 5/1/2009, you wrote:

>Regardless, there's laws.



Ok, I've gotten a few off list replies... Essentially "So, you always

drive under the speed limit, always cross in the crosswalk, etc".



No, I don't. But if I break the law and get caught, there's

consequences - a speeding ticket, a fine, etc.



The justification that it's more expensive than <Brand X> software is

no justification to steal it.



I'd like to have an iPod. It's $400. WAY more expensive than the

standard flip phone. By this logic, I should steal one, right?



Then there was the justification that the software should be given

free to only law enforcement.



Why just law enforcement? Why not Fire? Why not volunteer Search and

Rescue? Why not Animal Control?



Police departments have budgets. Volunteer organizations generally

have smaller budgets, or no budget. Give them the software free. And

give them the radios for free too.



Motorola has a different price point and a different market than other brands.



(Handhelds) Vertex: I can get a basic Vertex for what, $200? 16

channels, alphanumeric display. A good Vertex radio for $400. 100+

channels. Wide frequency coverage. Alphanumeric. DTMF. I could

probably get a Vertex that does more than I'd ever want for $1000.

Software is what, $100?



Motorola: What would I get for $200? A 2 channel "dot" radio? $400

would probably give me a pretty basic radio. Maybe 16 channels? Non

Alphanumeric? I could easily spend $4k on a Motorola radio. So I

guess the thinking is if you're able to spend that kind of money on a

radio, you can spend money on programming software.



Or, compare it to anything else.



Quicken for home users. $99?



Quicken for Businesses: $400??



Home phone system: $30.



Business phone 'system' (No, not the computer that runs it, just the

PHONE): Upwards of $200.



Sorry, pricing is no justification to steal.



I've just got a question (hypothetical) for all these people who say

"I'm going to steal Motorola softwarae because it's so damn expensive.."



Do you own a copy of EVERY other software you have on your computer?

Did you BUY every copy of EVERY other RSS you have - the inexpensive

ones from Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu, etc? Probably not.



I'll get off my soapbox now.

#48377

From: Stan Rutledge <stnrtldg@...>
Date: Wed Apr 9, 2008 6:44 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Software sharing

stnrtldg

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Send Email

Ham dmz has a bunch for free



Evan Platt <evan@...> wrote:          I've been trying to get

that across to people here for a long time. Best

of luck.



I find it funny especially when someone asks for software or offers to

give away software AND includes their company or organization name.



I mean, sure, the Big Radio /\/\anufacturers could go after Joe Smith

offering to give a copy of his software, but it would look much better

on paper for them to go after a company or an organization that offers

to give away their software.



Oh well, I'm sure someone here will eventually get busted and learn

their lesson.



TRACOMM wrote:

> There are a couple of manufacturers that take a very dim view of their

> software being passed around like shareware. They have, and are chasing

> down and prosecuting users who don't understand the value of their

> patent & trademark rights.

>

> I believe yahoo and most ISP's cooperate with authorities on

> identifying offending parties in such actions.

>

> Free could get very expensive.....

>











  __________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#53855

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

path_finder.geo

Offline

Send Email

I believe you have the law enforcement part backwards.



Stan said, "Then in all fairness every radio should come with programing

software or be be field programable.Law enforcment radios excluded"



Which I would think means that law enforcement (yes he could have included

fire/ems) should not be able to reprogram their raadios so easily simply

because you wouldn't want anything to get messed up that could endanger a

life.  But that's just my interpretation and I'm sure that can be argued

many ways.



Simply put, some people can't afford the software or to have someone else

program the radios.  And as far as affording the radios, some people get the

radios given to them or get them off eBay for real cheap prices.  If

Motorola, or any company, wants to charge bug bucks for the programming

software, one program should be able to do every radio that came out up to

the point the software was released.



Here's another example of pirated software.....Windows.  And you know what

Microsoft's opinion of it is?  I've read articles, can't remember where

right now, saying that they do not go after people who download pirated

copies simply because it doesn't decrease their revenues.  People who use

pirated copies generally can't afford to buy it, and if they don't buy it

then it's no loss either way to Microsoft.  However they do go after the

people illegally selling the software because that is money that they should

be getting.



If I made a program, and I have made a few for myself on occasion, I would

have the same opinion, people who steal it aren't going to pay for it

anyway, and if they can't afford that they certainly aren't going to be able

to afford any fines or lawsuits.  But again, that's just my opinion.



Jeff





----- Original Message -----

From: "Evan Platt" <evan@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:37 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> At 08:30 AM 5/1/2009, you wrote:

>>Regardless, there's laws.

>

> Ok, I've gotten a few off list replies... Essentially "So, you always

> drive under the speed limit, always cross in the crosswalk, etc".

>

> No, I don't. But if I break the law and get caught, there's

> consequences - a speeding ticket, a fine, etc.

>

> The justification that it's more expensive than <Brand X> software is

> no justification to steal it.

>

> I'd like to have an iPod. It's $400. WAY more expensive than the

> standard flip phone. By this logic, I should steal one, right?

>

> Then there was the justification that the software should be given

> free to only law enforcement.

>

> Why just law enforcement? Why not Fire? Why not volunteer Search and

> Rescue? Why not Animal Control?

>

> Police departments have budgets. Volunteer organizations generally

> have smaller budgets, or no budget. Give them the software free. And

> give them the radios for free too.

>

> Motorola has a different price point and a different market than other

> brands.

>

> (Handhelds) Vertex: I can get a basic Vertex for what, $200? 16

> channels, alphanumeric display. A good Vertex radio for $400. 100+

> channels. Wide frequency coverage. Alphanumeric. DTMF. I could

> probably get a Vertex that does more than I'd ever want for $1000.

> Software is what, $100?

>

> Motorola: What would I get for $200? A 2 channel "dot" radio? $400

> would probably give me a pretty basic radio. Maybe 16 channels? Non

> Alphanumeric? I could easily spend $4k on a Motorola radio. So I

> guess the thinking is if you're able to spend that kind of money on a

> radio, you can spend money on programming software.

>

> Or, compare it to anything else.

>

> Quicken for home users. $99?

>

> Quicken for Businesses: $400??

>

> Home phone system: $30.

>

> Business phone 'system' (No, not the computer that runs it, just the

> PHONE): Upwards of $200.

>

> Sorry, pricing is no justification to steal.

>

> I've just got a question (hypothetical) for all these people who say

> "I'm going to steal Motorola softwarae because it's so damn expensive.."

>

> Do you own a copy of EVERY other software you have on your computer?

> Did you BUY every copy of EVERY other RSS you have - the inexpensive

> ones from Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu, etc? Probably not.

>

> I'll get off my soapbox now.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

#53856

From: "ian hope" <ian@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

ijhspark

Offline

Send Email

I have always had a issue with motorola I look after the radios for a

Charity based in England that take Aid to Kosovo We currently use radios

from tait, Philips/Simoco and Motorola Tait will let you download

software from there web site or send it to you free of charge.Team Simoco

actual wrote a Programming file for me, again free of ChargeMotorola even

for a Charity, with zero buget, want to charge me full comercial price

for there software Yes programming software is copyright of the radio

company, but why do some let you have free and others like Motorola

charge the earth, with this system in place there will always be trades

or illegal downloads, it's life. I neither agree or disagree with it



   ----- Original Message -----

   From: "Eagle Link Customer Service"

   To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

   Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

   Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:52:21 -0400







   I believe you have the law enforcement part backwards.



   Stan said, "Then in all fairness every radio should come with

   programing

   software or be be field programable.Law enforcment radios excluded"



   Which I would think means that law enforcement (yes he could have

   included

   fire/ems) should not be able to reprogram their raadios so easily

   simply

   because you wouldn't want anything to get messed up that could

   endanger a

   life. But that's just my interpretation and I'm sure that can be

   argued

   many ways.



   Simply put, some people can't afford the software or to have someone

   else

   program the radios. And as far as affording the radios, some people

   get the

   radios given to them or get them off eBay for real cheap prices. If

   Motorola, or any company, wants to charge bug bucks for the

   programming

   software, one program should be able to do every radio that came out

   up to

   the point the software was released.



   Here's another example of pirated software.....Windows. And you know

   what

   Microsoft's opinion of it is? I've read articles, can't remember

   where

   right now, saying that they do not go after people who download

   pirated

   copies simply because it doesn't decrease their revenues. People who

   use

   pirated copies generally can't afford to buy it, and if they don't

   buy it

   then it's no loss either way to Microsoft. However they do go after

   the

   people illegally selling the software because that is money that they

   should

   be getting.



   If I made a program, and I have made a few for myself on occasion, I

   would

   have the same opinion, people who steal it aren't going to pay for it

   anyway, and if they can't afford that they certainly aren't going to

   be able

   to afford any fines or lawsuits. But again, that's just my opinion.



   Jeff



   ----- Original Message -----

   From: "Evan Platt" <evan@...>

   To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

   Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:37 PM

   Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing



   > At 08:30 AM 5/1/2009, you wrote:

   >>Regardless, there's laws.

   >

   > Ok, I've gotten a few off list replies... Essentially "So, you

   always

   > drive under the speed limit, always cross in the crosswalk, etc".

   >

   > No, I don't. But if I break the law and get caught, there's

   > consequences - a speeding ticket, a fine, etc.

   >

   > The justification that it's more expensive than <Brand X> software

   is

   > no justification to steal it.

   >

   > I'd like to have an iPod. It's $400. WAY more expensive than the

   > standard flip phone. By this logic, I should steal one, right?

   >

   > Then there was the justification that the software should be given

   > free to only law enforcement.

   >

   > Why just law enforcement? Why not Fire? Why not volunteer Search

   and

   > Rescue? Why not Animal Control?

   >

   > Police departments have budgets. Volunteer organizations generally

   > have smaller budgets, or no budget. Give them the software free.

   And

   > give them the radios for free too.

   >

   > Motorola has a different price point and a different market than

   other

   > brands.

   >

   > (Handhelds) Vertex: I can get a basic Vertex for what, $200? 16

   > channels, alphanumeric display. A good Vertex radio for $400. 100+

   > channels. Wide frequency coverage. Alphanumeric. DTMF. I could

   > probably get a Vertex that does more than I'd ever want for $1000.

   > Software is what, $100?

   >

   > Motorola: What would I get for $200? A 2 channel "dot" radio? $400

   > would probably give me a pretty basic radio. Maybe 16 channels? Non

   > Alphanumeric? I could easily spend $4k on a Motorola radio. So I

   > guess the thinking is if you're able to spend that kind of money on

   a

   > radio, you can spend money on programming software.

   >

   > Or, compare it to anything else.

   >

   > Quicken for home users. $99?

   >

   > Quicken for Businesses: $400??

   >

   > Home phone system: $30.

   >

   > Business phone 'system' (No, not the computer that runs it, just

   the

   > PHONE): Upwards of $200.

   >

   > Sorry, pricing is no justification to steal.

   >

   > I've just got a question (hypothetical) for all these people who

   say

   > "I'm going to steal Motorola softwarae because it's so damn

   expensive.."

   >

   > Do you own a copy of EVERY other software you have on your

   computer?

   > Did you BUY every copy of EVERY other RSS you have - the

   inexpensive

   > ones from Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu, etc? Probably not.

   >

   > I'll get off my soapbox now.

   >

   >

   >

   > ------------------------------------

   >

   > Community email addresses:

   > Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

   > Subscribe: radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

   > Unsubscribe: radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

   > List owner: radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

   >

   > Shortcut URL to this page:

   > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups

   Links

   >

   >

   >







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Get a Free Account at www.mail.com







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#53857

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 6:24 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

bbowers311

Offline

Send Email



> Simply put, some people can't afford the software or to have someone else

> program the radios.  And as far as affording the radios, some people get

> the

> radios given to them or get them off eBay for real cheap prices.  If

> Motorola, or any company, wants to charge bug bucks for the programming

> software, one program should be able to do every radio that came out up to

> the point the software was released.

>

One could take into account the cost of programming the radio when they

buy it.    Lets see, I have a Icom here that I can get the software and

cables

to program for $25.00, or a Motorola here that I can get the software and

cable for 500.00.



What to do?



If one wants a change, then show Motorola how they can make more

money doing it differently.   Bottom line, as a for profit company, making

money is what they do.  (At least the two way divisions!)



Microsoft and windows?  What they have decided to do is make

the registration process such that pirating windows is not near as easy

as it used to be.    What is it, three times with XP and then you have to

call and explain.  After that they start to question.



Microsoft does through Techsoup, make lots of copies of all their

software available free or very cheap to non-profits.



Bottom line - do what works for you and your morals.   There will always

be a way to break the law, and always be those that do.  There will also

always be that guy traveling the speed limit holding up the speeders, and

flipping them off when they pass him.















> Here's another example of pirated software.....Windows.  And you know what

> Microsoft's opinion of it is?  I've read articles, can't remember where

> right now, saying that they do not go after people who download pirated

> copies simply because it doesn't decrease their revenues.  People who use

> pirated copies generally can't afford to buy it, and if they don't buy it

> then it's no loss either way to Microsoft.  However they do go after the

> people illegally selling the software because that is money that they

> should

> be getting.

>

> If I made a program, and I have made a few for myself on occasion, I would

> have the same opinion, people who steal it aren't going to pay for it

> anyway, and if they can't afford that they certainly aren't going to be

> able

> to afford any fines or lawsuits.  But again, that's just my opinion.

>

> Jeff

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Evan Platt" <evan@...>

> To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:37 PM

> Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

>

>

>> At 08:30 AM 5/1/2009, you wrote:

>>>Regardless, there's laws.

>>

>> Ok, I've gotten a few off list replies... Essentially "So, you always

>> drive under the speed limit, always cross in the crosswalk, etc".

>>

>> No, I don't. But if I break the law and get caught, there's

>> consequences - a speeding ticket, a fine, etc.

>>

>> The justification that it's more expensive than <Brand X> software is

>> no justification to steal it.

>>

>> I'd like to have an iPod. It's $400. WAY more expensive than the

>> standard flip phone. By this logic, I should steal one, right?

>>

>> Then there was the justification that the software should be given

>> free to only law enforcement.

>>

>> Why just law enforcement? Why not Fire? Why not volunteer Search and

>> Rescue? Why not Animal Control?

>>

>> Police departments have budgets. Volunteer organizations generally

>> have smaller budgets, or no budget. Give them the software free. And

>> give them the radios for free too.

>>

>> Motorola has a different price point and a different market than other

>> brands.

>>

>> (Handhelds) Vertex: I can get a basic Vertex for what, $200? 16

>> channels, alphanumeric display. A good Vertex radio for $400. 100+

>> channels. Wide frequency coverage. Alphanumeric. DTMF. I could

>> probably get a Vertex that does more than I'd ever want for $1000.

>> Software is what, $100?

>>

>> Motorola: What would I get for $200? A 2 channel "dot" radio? $400

>> would probably give me a pretty basic radio. Maybe 16 channels? Non

>> Alphanumeric? I could easily spend $4k on a Motorola radio. So I

>> guess the thinking is if you're able to spend that kind of money on a

>> radio, you can spend money on programming software.

>>

>> Or, compare it to anything else.

>>

>> Quicken for home users. $99?

>>

>> Quicken for Businesses: $400??

>>

>> Home phone system: $30.

>>

>> Business phone 'system' (No, not the computer that runs it, just the

>> PHONE): Upwards of $200.

>>

>> Sorry, pricing is no justification to steal.

>>

>> I've just got a question (hypothetical) for all these people who say

>> "I'm going to steal Motorola softwarae because it's so damn expensive.."

>>

>> Do you own a copy of EVERY other software you have on your computer?

>> Did you BUY every copy of EVERY other RSS you have - the inexpensive

>> ones from Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu, etc? Probably not.

>>

>> I'll get off my soapbox now.

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>> Community email addresses:

>>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>>

>> Shortcut URL to this page:

>>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups

>> Links

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

#53859

From: "AzleComm" <AzleComm@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 7:29 pm
Subject: RE: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

wb5idm

Online Now

Send Email

In message <COL113-W4413D95164430C72F265C9D86D0@...>, ian ashby

<iansradios@...> writes

>

>Not a dealer as such i wouldnt want to be to be honest,but i do get

>loads of motorola kit through the office every week,lucky i have a

>great main dealer who has no problem sending me the stuff i need,if you

>dont pay out big money they dont want to know yet they will happily

>sell you equipment without cps? i bought several trbos when they first

>came out over here cps was well out of date,and that was motorola

>uk,yet someone over in the usa sourced it within seconds,i think in the

>usa they have a better deal.





Possibly the problem then, they do seem a bit averse to dealing with

anyone apart from main dealers, pity because most of the products are

good.

--

Bill

#53864

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

bbowers311

Offline

Send Email

Yeah.



So, as I mentioned, I am willing to have a senior level

executive with Motorola take a look at your application

as a favor to me.  A long time personal friend.  I said so,

and offered my assistance.



Yet, you would rather sit here and complain, then take

action to fix it.



No offense, but I think you are full of it.



Have a great day.





Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



----- Original Message -----

From: "ian hope" <ian@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> Motorola Uk, have been asked several times if they could provide help for

> the charity, either discounted software, acessories or radios. On Each

> ocasion we have either been point blank refused or told the charity does

> not there guidelines. we have also found the authorised dealers are told

> not to discount to charities. ask the same questions to tait or Team

> simoco, and they help you no end. ian

>

>  ----- Original Message -----

>  From: "Blake Bowers"

>  To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

>  Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:35:15 -0500

>

>

>

>  I always like this one.

>

>  Just because Motorola does not support YOUR favorite Charity,

>  does not mean it is not supporting other charities with millions.

>

>  http://www.motorola.com/content.jsp?globalObjectId=8135-11282

>

>  One could look at it the other way, Seems Tait gets off easy just

>  providing free software, when Motorola donates cold hard cash,

>  as well as trailer loads of equipment in disaster situations.

>

>  One could also ask, have you ever asked for a grant from Motorola

>  to purchase their software? Thats called playing by their charitable

>  giving rules.

>

>  If you have, please send me the information - either here or

>  privately, I

>  know

>  the "Giving coordinator" and she is a wonderful person to deal with.

>  I

>  would

>  be more than happy to see what could be done with your application.

>

>  If you have not, how in the world can you gripe if you can't even ask

>  the company properly?

>

>  Don't take your organs to heaven,

>  heaven knows we need them down here!

>  Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

>

>  ----- Original Message -----

>  From: "ian hope" <ian@...>

>  To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

>  Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:12 PM

>  Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

>

>  >I have always had a issue with motorola I look after the radios for

>  a

>  > Charity based in England that take Aid to Kosovo We currently use

>  radios

>  > from tait, Philips/Simoco and Motorola Tait will let you download

>  > software from there web site or send it to you free of charge.Team

>  Simoco

>  > actual wrote a Programming file for me, again free of

>  ChargeMotorola even

>  > for a Charity, with zero buget, want to charge me full comercial

>  price

>  > for there software Yes programming software is copyright of the

>  radio

>  > company, but why do some let you have free and others like Motorola

>  > charge the earth, with this system in place there will always be

>  trades

>  > or illegal downloads, it's life. I neither agree or disagree with

>  it

>

>

>

> --

> Be Yourself @ mail.com!

> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses

> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

#53871

From: "ian hope" <ian@...>
Date: Fri May 1, 2009 11:11 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

ijhspark

Offline

Send Email

you have hit nail on head in part of your post, we do not want cash from

motorola, we want equipment or software.We don't fit there profile as we

are a Uk charity working in another country, Kosovo It's not diaster

relief where they will give equipment, it's Humanitarian aid, Mainly food

and clothing, All donated.



   ----- Original Message -----

   From: "Blake Bowers"

   To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

   Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

   Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 17:22:09 -0500







   Yeah.



   So, as I mentioned, I am willing to have a senior level

   executive with Motorola take a look at your application

   as a favor to me. A long time personal friend. I said so,

   and offered my assistance.



   Yet, you would rather sit here and complain, then take

   action to fix it.



   No offense, but I think you are full of it.



   Have a great day.



   Don't take your organs to heaven,

   heaven knows we need them down here!

   Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



   ----- Original Message -----

   From: "ian hope" <ian@...>

   To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

   Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 5:15 PM

   Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing



   > Motorola Uk, have been asked several times if they could provide

   help for

   > the charity, either discounted software, acessories or radios. On

   Each

   > ocasion we have either been point blank refused or told the charity

   does

   > not there guidelines. we have also found the authorised dealers are

   told

   > not to discount to charities. ask the same questions to tait or

   Team

   > simoco, and they help you no end. ian

   >

   > ----- Original Message -----

   > From: "Blake Bowers"

   > To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

   > Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

   > Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:35:15 -0500

   >

   >

   >

   > I always like this one.

   >

   > Just because Motorola does not support YOUR favorite Charity,

   > does not mean it is not supporting other charities with millions.

   >

   > http://www.motorola.com/content.jsp?globalObjectId=8135-11282

   >

   > One could look at it the other way, Seems Tait gets off easy just

   > providing free software, when Motorola donates cold hard cash,

   > as well as trailer loads of equipment in disaster situations.

   >

   > One could also ask, have you ever asked for a grant from Motorola

   > to purchase their software? Thats called playing by their

   charitable

   > giving rules.

   >

   > If you have, please send me the information - either here or

   > privately, I

   > know

   > the "Giving coordinator" and she is a wonderful person to deal

   with.

   > I

   > would

   > be more than happy to see what could be done with your application.

   >

   > If you have not, how in the world can you gripe if you can't even

   ask

   > the company properly?

   >

   > Don't take your organs to heaven,

   > heaven knows we need them down here!

   > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

   >

   > ----- Original Message -----

   > From: "ian hope" <ian@...>

   > To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

   > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:12 PM

   > Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

   >

   > >I have always had a issue with motorola I look after the radios

   for

   > a

   > > Charity based in England that take Aid to Kosovo We currently use

   > radios

   > > from tait, Philips/Simoco and Motorola Tait will let you download

   > > software from there web site or send it to you free of

   charge.Team

   > Simoco

   > > actual wrote a Programming file for me, again free of

   > ChargeMotorola even

   > > for a Charity, with zero buget, want to charge me full comercial

   > price

   > > for there software Yes programming software is copyright of the

   > radio

   > > company, but why do some let you have free and others like

   Motorola

   > > charge the earth, with this system in place there will always be

   > trades

   > > or illegal downloads, it's life. I neither agree or disagree with

   > it

   >

   >

   >

   > --

   > Be Yourself @ mail.com!

   > Choose From 200+ Email Addresses

   > Get a Free Account at www.mail.com

   >

   >

   >

   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   >

   >

   >

   > ------------------------------------

   >

   > Community email addresses:

   > Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

   > Subscribe: radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

   > Unsubscribe: radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

   > List owner: radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

   >

   > Shortcut URL to this page:

   > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups

   Links

   >

   >

   >







--

Be Yourself @ mail.com!

Choose From 200+ Email Addresses

Get a Free Account at www.mail.com







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#53876

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>
Date: Sat May 2, 2009 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

path_finder.geo

Offline

Send Email

> One could take into account the cost of programming the radio when they

> buy it.    Lets see, I have a Icom here that I can get the software and

> cables

> to program for $25.00, or a Motorola here that I can get the software and

> cable for 500.00.



As I said, some people get given radios, how do you take into account the

cost of the software when something is given to you for free?



> Microsoft and windows?  What they have decided to do is make

> the registration process such that pirating windows is not near as easy

> as it used to be.    What is it, three times with XP and then you have to

> call and explain.  After that they start to question.



Actually, first of all let me say that the automated phone system has

changed so that you don't even have to talk to someone anymore.  You just

punch in the code from your screen and it gives you what you need to type

in.  Since they no longer support Windowx XP, they thought it would be a

good idea to not have to pay people to talk on the phone about it.  Also,

have you ever heard of Volume License Keys?  These are what is used for

businesses, and this is what is widely available on the net.  These copies

that have a VLK come pre-activated and pass the genuine advantage test.

This is done for one reason, to make it easier for corporations to just

insert a CD and let the automated process install windows without having to

touch the keyboard until it asks for information specific to that computer.

So yes, it is VERY easy to get a copy of Windows without having to talk to

Microsoft.  All you have to do is know someone in a corporate environment or

find one online.  Search Google for "download windows xp vlk" without the

quotes and see what comes up.



Jeff

#53877

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>
Date: Sat May 2, 2009 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

bbowers311

Offline

Send Email

Chuckle.



The Fire Departments in our community often get

equipment donated to them from departments up

in Pennsylvania, New York, and New Jersey.  (Thanks guys!)



The equipment, ranging from hose to fire engines, is free.  The

department still has to get it back here to Missouri, often times

repair it, before it goes into service.



All of that costs money.  Sometimes it is funded internally,

sometimes out of the pockets of volunteers, (most normal)

and sometimes from donations from local businesses.



Believe me, these departments around here invented poor.  6k

to run a fire department?  Over half of that goes to insurance!



Knowing how that works is exactly how I take into account

the cost of software when something is given to you for free.



1k in shipping for a 30K fire engine, thats a deal!



We have turned down donations, or sent them elsewhere, when

we could not afford the cost to make those donations servicable for

our department.





Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:42 AM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





>> One could take into account the cost of programming the radio when they

>> buy it.    Lets see, I have a Icom here that I can get the software and

>> cables

>> to program for $25.00, or a Motorola here that I can get the software and

>> cable for 500.00.

>

> As I said, some people get given radios, how do you take into account the

> cost of the software when something is given to you for free?

>

#53878

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>
Date: Sat May 2, 2009 3:26 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

bbowers311

Offline

Send Email

We could carry that one further.



A fire department is given a fire engine, for free.   They

have to drive it back home to put it into service.



Under your thinking, it would be OK for them to get fuel

along the way for the engine without paying for it.



I am really not sure that is how it works....





Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:42 AM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





>> One could take into account the cost of programming the radio when they

>> buy it.    Lets see, I have a Icom here that I can get the software and

>> cables

>> to program for $25.00, or a Motorola here that I can get the software and

>> cable for 500.00.

>

> As I said, some people get given radios, how do you take into account the

> cost of the software when something is given to you for free?

>

#53879

From: "Richard Fitzgerald" <w5rdf@...>
Date: Sat May 2, 2009 3:40 pm
Subject: RE: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

radioconsult

Offline

Send Email

Here's a novel idea; if someone donates radio equipment you cannot use or

program, either sell or trade it for some that you can program for your

needs.







Anyone in the radio business has been approached by a non-profit asking for

a "favor"; you help them with a single unit, next week they are back with a

box full of junk they want you to repair and get on the air.







Rich







From: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:radio-programming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Blake Bowers

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 10:27 AM

To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

















We could carry that one further.



A fire department is given a fire engine, for free. They

have to drive it back home to put it into service.



Under your thinking, it would be OK for them to get fuel

along the way for the engine without paying for it.



I am really not sure that is how it works....



Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...

<mailto:services%40eaglelink.net> >

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:radio-programming%40yahoogroups.com> >

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:42 AM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing



>> One could take into account the cost of programming the radio when they

>> buy it. Lets see, I have a Icom here that I can get the software and

>> cables

>> to program for $25.00, or a Motorola here that I can get the software and

>> cable for 500.00.

>

> As I said, some people get given radios, how do you take into account the

> cost of the software when something is given to you for free?

>







No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.320 / Virus Database: 270.12.13/2091 - Release Date: 05/01/09

17:52:00







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#53882

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>
Date: Sat May 2, 2009 11:12 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

path_finder.geo

Offline

Send Email

Ok, fair enough, you could refuse something for free.  But who would do

something like that if it's perfectly working.  Your analogy with the fire

department is similar, but not the same.  Here's the difference.  If you

receive broken equipment you have to repair, then it means replacing parts

that were once good.  If you get a radio for free that is not programmed for

your frequency, there's nothing to replace.  It's more like adapting instead

of repairing.  For the fire department it would be more like having your

trucks set up for 5" hose and getting a 4" hose for free.  You more than

likely would not refuse that even if you don't have the adapter, but who

knows someone might.  It's more convenient to "find" the adapter by any

means necessary, not sayign stealing, like borrowing one or asking someone

who has an extra one if they don't need it.  Which I agree is not likely

that someone would give away a hose adapter, but who knows.  But in all

fairness, yes, you could refuse something for free that works perfectly,

it's just not likely to happen.



Jeff







----- Original Message -----

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:22 AM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> Chuckle.

>

> The Fire Departments in our community often get

> equipment donated to them from departments up

> in Pennsylvania, New York, and New Jersey.  (Thanks guys!)

>

> The equipment, ranging from hose to fire engines, is free.  The

> department still has to get it back here to Missouri, often times

> repair it, before it goes into service.

>

> All of that costs money.  Sometimes it is funded internally,

> sometimes out of the pockets of volunteers, (most normal)

> and sometimes from donations from local businesses.

>

> Believe me, these departments around here invented poor.  6k

> to run a fire department?  Over half of that goes to insurance!

>

> Knowing how that works is exactly how I take into account

> the cost of software when something is given to you for free.

>

> 1k in shipping for a 30K fire engine, thats a deal!

>

> We have turned down donations, or sent them elsewhere, when

> we could not afford the cost to make those donations servicable for

> our department.

>

>

> Don't take your organs to heaven,

> heaven knows we need them down here!

> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

> To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:42 AM

> Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

>

>

>>> One could take into account the cost of programming the radio when they

>>> buy it.    Lets see, I have a Icom here that I can get the software and

>>> cables

>>> to program for $25.00, or a Motorola here that I can get the software

>>> and

>>> cable for 500.00.

>>

>> As I said, some people get given radios, how do you take into account the

>> cost of the software when something is given to you for free?

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

#53883

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>
Date: Sat May 2, 2009 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

path_finder.geo

Offline

Send Email

Gas?  Hmmm, because fire departments around here are government agencies

they all just fuel up at the nearest DOT yard using a card swiped at the

pump for security.  So that wouldn't really be a problem unless you get it

from out of state.  But again, if you are GIVEN a fire truck and you can use

it, you will find a way of getting gas in it.  You could borrow the money.

Or the department could borrow the money from it's members.  Or you could

simply get one of those government grants that fire departments can get so

easily.  That is how the fire department I used to be with got their first

ambulance.  You could look at the copying of programming software in the

same way you look at recording movies off of TV.  You could say you are only

borrowing it to program your radio, then you could delete it.  There are all

kinds of arguements for and against the copying of software.



Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:26 AM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> We could carry that one further.

>

> A fire department is given a fire engine, for free.   They

> have to drive it back home to put it into service.

>

> Under your thinking, it would be OK for them to get fuel

> along the way for the engine without paying for it.

>

> I am really not sure that is how it works....

>

>

> Don't take your organs to heaven,

> heaven knows we need them down here!

> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

> To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:42 AM

> Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

>

>

>>> One could take into account the cost of programming the radio when they

>>> buy it.    Lets see, I have a Icom here that I can get the software and

>>> cables

>>> to program for $25.00, or a Motorola here that I can get the software

>>> and

>>> cable for 500.00.

>>

>> As I said, some people get given radios, how do you take into account the

>> cost of the software when something is given to you for free?

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

#53884

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>
Date: Sat May 2, 2009 11:53 pm
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

bbowers311

Offline

Send Email

The vast majority of fire departments in the country do

not have the option of just going to the nearest DOT yard,

and I would suspect that those that can - it comes out of their

budget somehow.



So, as you say, if you are given the Fire Engine, you will find

a way to pay for the gas.



So, if you are given these radios, you will find a way to pay

for programming.



Thanks for making my point.



And yes, you can get a government grant for a new engine,

in the rural world all you have to match is 5%.  The engine

we recently got (2007 KME) was 274K, leaving about 17k

in our match.  I guess like the views on software, we could

have just stolen the match.



And for all the Fire Departments that routinely come on here

and ask for software, that same grant program puts a much

higher priority on communications equipment - and you can buy

software on the same grant!







Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:18 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> Gas?  Hmmm, because fire departments around here are government agencies

> they all just fuel up at the nearest DOT yard using a card swiped at the

> pump for security.  So that wouldn't really be a problem unless you get it

> from out of state.  But again, if you are GIVEN a fire truck and you can

> use

> it, you will find a way of getting gas in it.  You could borrow the money.

> Or the department could borrow the money from it's members.  Or you could

> simply get one of those government grants that fire departments can get so

> easily.  That is how the fire department I used to be with got their first

> ambulance.  You could look at the copying of programming software in the

> same way you look at recording movies off of TV.  You could say you are

> only

> borrowing it to program your radio, then you could delete it.  There are

> all

> kinds of arguements for and against the copying of software.

>

#53885

From: "C. R. Vaughan" <tombigbee4@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 12:00 am
Subject: RE: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

southernhono...

Offline

Send Email

Agreed.  Put in over 3.5 million in grants here in Alabama last year and

received a little under 2 million in funding.  One of which was my new

communication system.  Went with ICOM and MIDLAND and had no trouble getting

any of the software/cables with the equipment.  The Midland BaseTech III

repeaters are some nice stuff.  Didn't try MOTO, but didn't want to pay that

much for the wingtips!







CRV











From: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:radio-programming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Blake Bowers

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:54 PM

To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

















The vast majority of fire departments in the country do

not have the option of just going to the nearest DOT yard,

and I would suspect that those that can - it comes out of their

budget somehow.



So, as you say, if you are given the Fire Engine, you will find

a way to pay for the gas.



So, if you are given these radios, you will find a way to pay

for programming.



Thanks for making my point.



And yes, you can get a government grant for a new engine,

in the rural world all you have to match is 5%. The engine

we recently got (2007 KME) was 274K, leaving about 17k

in our match. I guess like the views on software, we could

have just stolen the match.



And for all the Fire Departments that routinely come on here

and ask for software, that same grant program puts a much

higher priority on communications equipment - and you can buy

software on the same grant!



Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...

<mailto:services%40eaglelink.net> >

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:radio-programming%40yahoogroups.com> >

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:18 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing



> Gas? Hmmm, because fire departments around here are government agencies

> they all just fuel up at the nearest DOT yard using a card swiped at the

> pump for security. So that wouldn't really be a problem unless you get it

> from out of state. But again, if you are GIVEN a fire truck and you can

> use

> it, you will find a way of getting gas in it. You could borrow the money.

> Or the department could borrow the money from it's members. Or you could

> simply get one of those government grants that fire departments can get so

> easily. That is how the fire department I used to be with got their first

> ambulance. You could look at the copying of programming software in the

> same way you look at recording movies off of TV. You could say you are

> only

> borrowing it to program your radio, then you could delete it. There are

> all

> kinds of arguements for and against the copying of software.

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#53896

From: "Peter Richens" <prichens@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 12:24 pm
Subject: RE: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

prichens

Offline

Send Email

Hi



Only new to this list but I think you guys are missing the point..

If Motorola are so stupid as to restrict who can program their radios then

this can only go against them as future buyers will - or should consider

this and possibly look for alternate products that are easier to be

programmed.



Am I Wrong?



Regards

Peter Richens - VK4FSD

Brisbane Australia



-----Original Message-----

From: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:radio-programming@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Blake Bowers

Sent: Sunday, 3 May 2009 09:54

To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





The vast majority of fire departments in the country do

not have the option of just going to the nearest DOT yard,

and I would suspect that those that can - it comes out of their

budget somehow.



So, as you say, if you are given the Fire Engine, you will find

a way to pay for the gas.



So, if you are given these radios, you will find a way to pay

for programming.



Thanks for making my point.



And yes, you can get a government grant for a new engine,

in the rural world all you have to match is 5%.  The engine

we recently got (2007 KME) was 274K, leaving about 17k

in our match.  I guess like the views on software, we could

have just stolen the match.



And for all the Fire Departments that routinely come on here

and ask for software, that same grant program puts a much

higher priority on communications equipment - and you can buy

software on the same grant!







Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:18 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> Gas?  Hmmm, because fire departments around here are government agencies

> they all just fuel up at the nearest DOT yard using a card swiped at the

> pump for security.  So that wouldn't really be a problem unless you get it

> from out of state.  But again, if you are GIVEN a fire truck and you can

> use

> it, you will find a way of getting gas in it.  You could borrow the money.

> Or the department could borrow the money from it's members.  Or you could

> simply get one of those government grants that fire departments can get so

> easily.  That is how the fire department I used to be with got their first

> ambulance.  You could look at the copying of programming software in the

> same way you look at recording movies off of TV.  You could say you are

> only

> borrowing it to program your radio, then you could delete it.  There are

> all

> kinds of arguements for and against the copying of software.

>







------------------------------------



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14:23:00

#53886

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 2:24 am
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

path_finder.geo

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The point was that people will find a way to get what they want, not pay for

what they want.  That is why I mentioned borrowing.  I was in no way making

your point.  I was simply stating that people will find a way to get what

they want.  In the case of gas, it's highly unlikely that you would even be

able to steal it, so you would have to find other ways, like the department

borrowing it from it's members or getting a grant.  But with software being

on the internet, that would be the way people will find it if they can't

afford it themselves.  In no way was I saying that people will find a way to

PAY for it, because we both know that is not going to happen.  There will

always be somebody trading software, and if people can't afford the

outrageously high prices, then someone SHOULD help them out with the

software.  It's just too bad that Motorola won't do it.  They charge

outrageous enough prices on the radios alone that they should give the

software to you with the radios.  Again, my opinion of trading or copying

programming software is the same as video or audio tapes and CDs.  They make

DVD recorders so that you can record TV, which if you have HDTV is pretty

much an exact duplicate, why should it be any different?  Honestly, I don't

even know why we're discussing this in this forum.  This is a radio

programming forum, and if you're not here to help people program their

radios, then you shouldn't be here.  Perhaps if you're a dealer in the radio

programming forum instead of complaining about people pirating software you

should offer to program the radios for them for free.  I don't think there

are any laws against that.



Jeff



----- Original Message -----

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 7:53 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> The vast majority of fire departments in the country do

> not have the option of just going to the nearest DOT yard,

> and I would suspect that those that can - it comes out of their

> budget somehow.

>

> So, as you say, if you are given the Fire Engine, you will find

> a way to pay for the gas.

>

> So, if you are given these radios, you will find a way to pay

> for programming.

>

> Thanks for making my point.

>

> And yes, you can get a government grant for a new engine,

> in the rural world all you have to match is 5%.  The engine

> we recently got (2007 KME) was 274K, leaving about 17k

> in our match.  I guess like the views on software, we could

> have just stolen the match.

>

> And for all the Fire Departments that routinely come on here

> and ask for software, that same grant program puts a much

> higher priority on communications equipment - and you can buy

> software on the same grant!

>

>

>

> Don't take your organs to heaven,

> heaven knows we need them down here!

> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

> To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:18 PM

> Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

>

>

>> Gas?  Hmmm, because fire departments around here are government agencies

>> they all just fuel up at the nearest DOT yard using a card swiped at the

>> pump for security.  So that wouldn't really be a problem unless you get

>> it

>> from out of state.  But again, if you are GIVEN a fire truck and you can

>> use

>> it, you will find a way of getting gas in it.  You could borrow the

>> money.

>> Or the department could borrow the money from it's members.  Or you could

>> simply get one of those government grants that fire departments can get

>> so

>> easily.  That is how the fire department I used to be with got their

>> first

>> ambulance.  You could look at the copying of programming software in the

>> same way you look at recording movies off of TV.  You could say you are

>> only

>> borrowing it to program your radio, then you could delete it.  There are

>> all

>> kinds of arguements for and against the copying of software.

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

#53887

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 2:28 am
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

path_finder.geo

Offline

Send Email

By the way, myself, I wouldn't touch Motorola because of the prices and

their stupid policies.  I use Kenwoods that I can field program.  Haven't

have too much trouble with them that I couldn't solve.



Jeff



----- Original Message -----

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 7:53 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





> The vast majority of fire departments in the country do

> not have the option of just going to the nearest DOT yard,

> and I would suspect that those that can - it comes out of their

> budget somehow.

>

> So, as you say, if you are given the Fire Engine, you will find

> a way to pay for the gas.

>

> So, if you are given these radios, you will find a way to pay

> for programming.

>

> Thanks for making my point.

>

> And yes, you can get a government grant for a new engine,

> in the rural world all you have to match is 5%.  The engine

> we recently got (2007 KME) was 274K, leaving about 17k

> in our match.  I guess like the views on software, we could

> have just stolen the match.

>

> And for all the Fire Departments that routinely come on here

> and ask for software, that same grant program puts a much

> higher priority on communications equipment - and you can buy

> software on the same grant!

>

>

>

> Don't take your organs to heaven,

> heaven knows we need them down here!

> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>

> To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:18 PM

> Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

>

>

>> Gas?  Hmmm, because fire departments around here are government agencies

>> they all just fuel up at the nearest DOT yard using a card swiped at the

>> pump for security.  So that wouldn't really be a problem unless you get

>> it

>> from out of state.  But again, if you are GIVEN a fire truck and you can

>> use

>> it, you will find a way of getting gas in it.  You could borrow the

>> money.

>> Or the department could borrow the money from it's members.  Or you could

>> simply get one of those government grants that fire departments can get

>> so

>> easily.  That is how the fire department I used to be with got their

>> first

>> ambulance.  You could look at the copying of programming software in the

>> same way you look at recording movies off of TV.  You could say you are

>> only

>> borrowing it to program your radio, then you could delete it.  There are

>> all

>> kinds of arguements for and against the copying of software.

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

#53888

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 3:34 am
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

bbowers311

Offline

Send Email

I have helped many in the forum with programming, and even learned from

the forum.  I see nowhere where helping people to program includes a mandate

that I provide free software, or free programming for that matter.



Perhaps if you are the moderator, you can make those rules.



And I said people can do what they want, just don't try to justify

it - just say you are bootlegging software.  Makes no rip to me.



Like I tell my teenagers, be true to yourself.







Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.







> much an exact duplicate, why should it be any different?  Honestly, I

> don't

> even know why we're discussing this in this forum.  This is a radio

> programming forum, and if you're not here to help people program their

> radios, then you shouldn't be here.  Perhaps if you're a dealer in the

> radio

> programming forum instead of complaining about people pirating software

> you

> should offer to program the radios for them for free.  I don't think there

> are any laws against that.

>

#53889

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 3:47 am
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

bbowers311

Offline

Send Email

You know, this ended up really aggravating me.



Who in the hell are you to tell me who I should program

for, and for what cost?



No Volunteer Fire Department in my area has ever had

to pay me a fee to program a radio, other than the older

radios that required blanking and reprogramming and eprom,

and then aligning them.



The American Red Cross has gotten their local folks

radios reprogrammed for free, as well as free paging

service for their people who carry commercial pagers on

our system.



Back when it was used, we provided many pagers to the

lifepage pager program for transplant patients, all free of

charge.



Local Law enforcement, many things fall upon the deputies

to fund, and they get cost or better on those items.



I allow HAM groups to use free tower space on my commercial

towers from NY to OK.   Fire Departments have used towers I

own from Maine to Missouri to train on.  Fire Departments also

get free tower space.



We won't even go into equipment that I provide free of charge.



No telling how much money my son and I have put up for our

department over the years.



I am no saint, but I do try to help.



I ask again, who in the hell are you to tell me who to charge,

and how much to charge?



I do ask a free user on a tower to occassionally weedeat around

the site - you sound like one of those that bitch about that minimal

request.







Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.





> radios, then you shouldn't be here.  Perhaps if you're a dealer in the

> radio

> programming forum instead of complaining about people pirating software

> you

> should offer to program the radios for them for free.  I don't think there

> are any laws against that.

>

#53891

From: kevin valentino <kevinvalentino@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 4:59 am
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

kevinvalenti...

Offline

Send Email

never thought we would agree on something but here goes. i have 2 american red

cross divisions in different towns. (vhf with a base and dc remote lines) i

service all 30+ of thier 12 passenger buses w/ lifts for nothing and also give

them used but GOOD kenwoods free!

also have some hams on one peater with community tone panel that does 44o and

don't charge them either! guess i had you wrong, starting to understand you

through your messaging. like i have stated i don't do much of anything w/

trunking after i sold the johnson but i guess we all have to take our organs

somewhere, me it's my heart! feel free to email offline

kevinvalentino@...

--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Blake Bowers <bbowers@...> wrote:

From: Blake Bowers <bbowers@...>

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

To: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 11:47 PM

You know, this ended up really aggravating me.

Who in the hell are you to tell me who I should program

for, and for what cost?

No Volunteer Fire Department in my area has ever had

to pay me a fee to program a radio, other than the older

radios that required blanking and reprogramming and eprom,

and then aligning them.

The American Red Cross has gotten their local folks

radios reprogrammed for free, as well as free paging

service for their people who carry commercial pagers on

our system.

Back when it was used, we provided many pagers to the

lifepage pager program for transplant patients, all free of

charge.

Local Law enforcement, many things fall upon the deputies

to fund, and they get cost or better on those items.

I allow HAM groups to use free tower space on my commercial

towers from NY to OK. Fire Departments have used towers I

own from Maine to Missouri to train on. Fire Departments also

get free tower space.

We won't even go into equipment that I provide free of charge.

No telling how much money my son and I have put up for our

department over the years.

I am no saint, but I do try to help.

I ask again, who in the hell are you to tell me who to charge,

and how much to charge?

I do ask a free user on a tower to occassionally weedeat around

the site - you sound like one of those that bitch about that minimal

request.

Don't take your organs to heaven,

heaven knows we need them down here!

Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

> radios, then you shouldn't be here. Perhaps if you're a dealer in the

> radio

> programming forum instead of complaining about people pirating software

> you

> should offer to program the radios for them for free. I don't think there

> are any laws against that.

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#53894

From: "Eagle Link Customer Service" <services@...>
Date: Sun May 3, 2009 5:33 am
Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing

path_finder.geo

Offline

Send Email

I never said there were any rules saying you had to provide free software or

free programming.  The untwisted version of what I said, since you like to

twist things, "Perhaps if you're a dealer in the radio programming forum

instead of complaining about people pirating software you should offer to

program the radios for them for free."   What I'm trying to say is, "If

you're not going to help, then don't complain!"  And I never said or implied

that I was bootlegging software.  Like I said, I use Kenwood radios that are

field programmable.  I also never said that it was right or wrong to pirate

software, I simply said that people are going to do what they need to do.  I

also never said who you should program for and what you should charge.

Simply that if you're going to complain about people doing things the wrong

way, help them do it the right way instead of yelling at them.  So if you've

helped all these people in the past, what has stopped you from doing it now?

And how can you say that I'm one of those that bitch about that minimal

request?  I haven't bitched about anything, you have.   All along you have

been the one complaining about people using and trading software when they

should be paying for it.  How can you even complain about something you're

not willing to help solve?



You can't even begin to try and control what other people do until you give

them another option, so why don't you stop trying to twist things to make

arguements and just drop the subject.





----- Original Message -----

From: "Blake Bowers" <bbowers@...>

To: <radio-programming@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:34 PM

Subject: Re: [radio-prog@yhgrps] Re: Software sharing





>I have helped many in the forum with programming, and even learned from

> the forum.  I see nowhere where helping people to program includes a

> mandate

> that I provide free software, or free programming for that matter.

>

> Perhaps if you are the moderator, you can make those rules.

>

> And I said people can do what they want, just don't try to justify

> it - just say you are bootlegging software.  Makes no rip to me.

>

> Like I tell my teenagers, be true to yourself.

>

>

>

> Don't take your organs to heaven,

> heaven knows we need them down here!

> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

>

>

>

>> much an exact duplicate, why should it be any different?  Honestly, I

>> don't

>> even know why we're discussing this in this forum.  This is a radio

>> programming forum, and if you're not here to help people program their

>> radios, then you shouldn't be here.  Perhaps if you're a dealer in the

>> radio

>> programming forum instead of complaining about people pirating software

>> you

>> should offer to program the radios for them for free.  I don't think

>> there

>> are any laws against that.

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Community email addresses:

>  Post message: radio-programming@yahoogroups.com

>  Subscribe:    radio-programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  Unsubscribe:  radio-programming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>  List owner:   radio-programming-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/radio-programmingYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

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