....... some more videos at files > hvp model testing > test4x.wmv

and at http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6852421/test4s


--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> ...... you can now take a look at some pictures from the hvf from mike
> at files > new fins > test4.jpg
>
> there is a new video at proadesign group .... too !
>
> as well as the pictures from our building the new 1/4 hvf
> at > www.proatech.org > 100 0053 > 60
>

...... you can now take a look at some pictures from the hvf from mike
at files > new fins > test4.jpg

there is a new video at proadesign group .... too !

as well as the pictures from our building the new 1/4 hvf
at > www.proatech.org > 100 0053 > 60

....... take a look at the 100_0009tr.mov video at www.proatech.org !

see how the hvf is going way beyond the vector ?
causing the hinge to go right up to the float .......

it could be the wind gradient ....
being nothing at the waters level > then ever more towards the top !

but it seems to us now .... that ....
the hinge is allowing to much twist on the fin !

causing the hvf to go down and down for ever ......

because the lower part has an angle of attack
and the upper part not .....

so we have now a hinge letting the fin go back ... for sure holding !
and some twist .... but not so much !

then the whole action should be more appropriate ......

you can see the new hinge drawings at files in the folder " csh "

we will as well show pictures of the building progress
made at the 1/4 model soon !

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4155782/11191697

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4155787/11191703

--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "proatechnology" <proatechnology@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > ...... we finnally got some videos made from the 1/8 hvp model >
> > in heavy enough winds to have the float come out !

....... here are a few more clips


http://de.video.yahoo.com/watch/4050831/10945397
http://de.video.yahoo.com/watch/4051211/10946363
http://de.video.yahoo.com/watch/4050934/10945685
http://de.video.yahoo.com/watch/4051298/10946602








> >
> > we will be cutting and loading them up monday > to yahoo video >
> > to have the available space here for drawings ..... short clips !
> >
>
>
>
> http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995851/10825965
> http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995836/10825934
> http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995830/10825911
> http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995820/10825883
>

--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> ...... we finnally got some videos made from the 1/8 hvp model >
> in heavy enough winds to have the float come out !
>
> we will be cutting and loading them up monday > to yahoo video >
> to have the available space here for drawings ..... short clips !
>



http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995851/10825965
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995836/10825934
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995830/10825911
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3995820/10825883

...... we finnally got some videos made from the 1/8 hvp model >
in heavy enough winds to have the float come out !

we will be cutting and loading them up monday > to yahoo video >
to have the available space here for drawings ..... short clips !

....... if a slim hull heels a lot >
it will be effectivally be come more and more a planing hull !
because the heeled bow will be lifting the boat up ......

if now the wind gradient is extreme >
like behind some housing >

then if the hvp will heel to accomodate the high vector !
from the high center of sail pressure ......

then the planing will induce a negative aoa on the fin !
and it will be coming out of the water
after it runs out of it .....

so we need a hinge > that will assure a positive aoa at all times !

meaning some play in what ever it hangs on >
see 2x hinged fin > proadesign group > in files

where the fin will through its own drag go on back
and create a positive aoa
even if the boat proper will point up wards !

it can as well twist some >
and those create more aoa at the tip of the hvf !


a vfp hasnt such a problem > because she never will heel much !
but on the other hand >

you can not change the aoa as easily as on a hvp ......


if the fin on a vfp should ever come out of the water >
then she will shoot up into the wind and be safe !

but if on a hvp the fin comes out ... it will shurely be the end !

because she will first heel a lot >
and then there will be no stability left to shoot up with !

that is why >
the aoa of the hvf has to be positive enough at all times !

to make shure it will stay in the water ......

...... you now can see >

one of the video clips from the recent hvfp model testing >
in files > in the " hvfp model testing " folder !
of the > proadesign group <

more will be cut and shown there soon .....

..... any one here being able to discypher german >

http://www.multihull.de

> forum > proas > geballte dummheit

there is a lively dicusion there going on
about the future of the vfp ......

....... I cant see the fin on todds model ....

but if it is like his other stuff >
it could be not a clean assymetric foil !

so it will then at any negative aoa slide > towards < the boot !
instead of away from >

so in addition to having no play in his hinge attachement
to give a definite aoa at all times

and the big gradiant on the beach
or the 3x reasons it folded

I newer have any problems
because I can predict what will happen ......


but with out todd > we would never know !
what problem we are missing ...... out on ....






--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz roth" <fritz_roth@...> wrote:
>
>
> ...... todd is testing his models behind a sand bar .....
>
> where the wind on the water is 1 kt
> and up on the top 10+ kts !
>
> so you have on the main hull
> no wind or waves to push it much to lee ward >
>
> but as soon as the boat heels the bow comes up
> and creates a negativ aoa on the fin !
>
> so it folds ..... as in the video shown on " you tube "
>
> but .... if he would have no solide hinge >
>
> but a piece of the side wall of a bicycle tire there instead >
> this fin will pull itself down and back from the drag >
>
> keeping up an aoa at all times !
> even in such extrem situations ......
>
> see more of this > under > the new fin < at files !
>
> where we actually had planed
> to use the side walls of a car tire on a man size hvfp ....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

..... if you would take this fictitious tri .....

and reduce his main hull > to maybe 1/3 its lenght
so it just would carry the bridge deck in no wind ....

then you would use the lee ward float
the only comfortable place around >
for sailing on and sleeping in !

then you would reduce his wind ward float
to almost nothing >
but in a storm it would be a titan holding all !

would you have a perfekt tri then ?

or a perfect harry proa ?
a perfect flying proa .......





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

...... todd is testing his models behind a sand bar .....

where the wind on the water is 1 kt
and up on the top 10+ kts !

so you have on the main hull
no wind or waves to push it much to lee ward >

but as soon as the boat heels the bow comes up
and creates a negativ aoa on the fin !

so it folds ..... as in the video shown on " you tube "

but .... if he would have no solide hinge >

but a piece of the side wall of a bicycle tire there instead >
this fin will pull itself down and back from the drag >

keeping up an aoa at all times !
even in such extrem situations ......

see more of this > under > the new fin < at files !

where we actually had planed
to use the side walls of a car tire on a man size hvfp ....






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

there seem to be plans ....
out going from the " proa file " >

for an all " desiding " race >>>
between a russel brown proa and a harry ...

but this is not the whole
or even a proper question !

because the out come will depend >

> on what winds they will face
> what kind of technology
> and what crews those proas will have ....

>>> a traditional flying proa
will be liter than any harry proa !
because the bridge deck
and the ww float can be much liter >

if build to the same scantlings !

now a hvfp will be just as lite as tfp
because it is except for the lateral area
just like a tfp !

having a vf from the tinny float to ww >
but needing not all those crew members to balance !

so it will be just as fast in lite winds

principally faster in moderate winds
not needing all the drag
from those crews on the out rigger !

and faster then even a harry in heavy >
because it can carry all the sail
but being liter .....

and no race will settle this argument
with any boots available today on this planet !

just as no one could settle the question of >>

>>> is this world round or flat ?
400 years ago .... in a fair way !

because there was just one
who knew how to analyse the facts ......

and the masses could and can just do
what they had done all the time before .......

so this could and can
never be about science or technology

but only >> power politics !

just look at the " proa file " .........

....... you can now see

the 6 drawings & the building instructions
for the hinged fin assembly in the files section of

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proadesign/

use the ones loaded up on 7 jan 08












--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> ...... if you want to see .....
>
> the > fin profile <
>
> of this hinged fin modification
> go to >
>
> http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/proadesignde/files/
>
> open the first folder and look for the two <
>
> > profile drawings
>
> there will be later as well the detail top
> and front drawing
>
> to show the building concept .....
>

...... if you want to see .....

the > fin profile <

of this hinged fin modification
go to >

http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/proadesignde/files/

open the first folder and look for the two <

> profile drawings

there will be later as well the detail top
and front drawing

to show the building concept .....

...... for the drawings >

of the modification on my 31'
go to the proadesign group >

>>> files .....




--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> ....... I had another chance
> to test the hinged fin model >
>
> but my camara man was late .....
> so no luck with a video !
>
> but it worked fine
> and we are planning to build
> a modified full scale version of it !
>
> so ...
>
> some time this spring
> you should finally see it be fore your own eyes .....
>

--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "desmond.long" <desmond.long@...> wrote:
>
> Please unscribe me



this is presicely what I was expecting !

as soon as you dont fall for a catastrophy >>>

who is first of all > plainly to see
at the wrong group !

plus making deragotary statements
about model testing

and can read .... etc

then he wants to leave
because he cant even do this him self ..... .

nice social science subject you have been !
we dont need any of that kind here .....

Please unscribe me

....... I had another chance
to test the hinged fin model >

but my camara man was late .....
so no luck with a video !

but it worked fine
and we are planning to build
a modified full scale version of it !

so ...

some time this spring
you should finally see it be fore your own eyes .....

--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "desmond.long" <desmond.long@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.yes I saw Fritz web page showing his proa and sailing it he also
> stated he was building an 88 ft.this is what I was inquiring about.
>



...... as I have stated before here >

the > proadesign group < is the proper place
for discussing building a vfp >

this is plainely shown as well on the www.proadesign.com
on this and the proadesign group home page !

as far as my 88' vfp is concerned
there are several reason I have halted
further building on it >

one being all the work
on the rapid technical development of the vfp concept !

so I have just no time for it right now .....

Hi.yes I saw Fritz web page showing his proa and sailing it he also
stated he was building an 88 ft.this is what I was inquiring about.

Hi Desmond

Fritz is I think being a little cryptic.

Forgive me if I am mistaken but it is my understanding that Fritz built a 30ft
vfp many years ago and sailed it and may still sail it in Gibraltar. If I am
mistaken I am happy to be corrected.

n peter evans





---------------------------------
Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "desmond.long" <desmond.long@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.still did not get a reply to my question did anybody build any of
> these proa.



.... there has been the url from the
> www.proadesign.com < site

in > links < for years
so I did think I would have to mention it ......




would to build a 50-60 ft.and if design plans are avaible.



....... and there as well you can find
the > www.proatech.org < site

where you can look at the concept for a vfp 60'





> Regards.
> Desmond Long.



...... but actually >

the right place for discussing the building of a vfp
would be the > proadesign < group

this here is for future developments ......




>

Hi.still did not get a reply to my question did anybody build any of
these proa.would to build a 50-60 ft.and if design plans are avaible.
Regards.
Desmond Long.

--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "desmond.long" <desmond.long@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.lots of talk about models



...... this is where it all begins !
its a lot less of a problem >

to get your concept right in a model
then full size ....




has any body built any full size and any
> info.on building and how they perform.



..... that was already in the last century !

you can buy any plan >
for any inteligent concept !

just let me know !

for an introduction to building a vfp
go to the > smallboats group <

and get the > vfp 25 mc builders hand book <
from don elliot there  ......



> Regards.
> Desmond Long
>

Hi.lots of talk about models has any body built any full size and any
info.on building and how they perform.
Regards.
Desmond Long

Friction or mechanical device to keep foil centered. Be it rubber
metal fiberglass batten or what ever one chooses to use , is what
was meant. On pivoting foil to windward with out ama. For a fast
beach craft minimum day sailor.

Here are some links to my foil to lee craft. The sails sheeting
arrangement needs to be redone I know. Along with the geometry of
aka and ama.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOeyIGg11K4&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVJV_4G5mZs&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1gl3dJRS88&feature=related

Todd



--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@...> wrote:
>
> --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> >
> > Sure if you use a float.
>
>
>
> ....... in any practical cruising concept
> it will be hard to get around a float
>
>
>
>
> But the whole point of the self aligning
> > hinge is to get rid of the float. With out float and no friction
or
> > mechanical advantage in the hinge. The hinge just doesn't work
in
> > light and variable wind conditions. Or that well in sub apperant
> > wind condition.
>
>
>
> ..... take a look at the vfp 30 pfr !
> shown in files .....
>
> you use diagonal glas
> to keep the > red < batton flexing up and down
> but not twisting
>
> this works !
>
> as does the hinge with a batton
> but this should be more certain
> pertaining to a definite aoa ....
>
> as far as hinge friction is concerned >
> just take teflon tubing
>
> one in an other
>
> and you will have no friction it all
> no problems ...
>
> even the crude hinge on my model is no problem .......
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > I tested my lee foil with and with out unidirectional today.
Winds
> > were 15 mph plus. The geometry still needs to to be worked
though
> > and better sail sheeting arrangement. I'm now wondering what it
> > would do with another lifting foil identical to the leefoil on
> > windward side as well would do. Instead of the gripping or down
> > force foil as in my other test.
> >
> > I have poster 3 videos with ama working on posting the no ama
> > version.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSvI4VXpVJ8&feature=user
>
>
>
> ...... I have seen the land test !
>
> where is the water test ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the mast windsurf tendons I was talking about using them
as
> > the
> > > > joint for the pivoting foil, full size boat. Inline forming
the
> > > > joint.
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ..... I see ......
> > >
> > >
> > > you could even use them then >
> > > to move the fin >>
> > > back on changing the direction
> > >
> > > if you have two of them on your float
> > > and two just hinges on the fin top !
> > >
> > > having two stream lined beams >
> > >
> > > so the vf can move along the horizontal
> > > back and forth
> > >
> > > and up and down ......
> > >
> > > but still be aligned for your proper aoa !
> > >
> > > this would be great for adjusting your balance
> > > and running down wind in a surf .....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Fritz ,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had the same problem with my hinged foil with no ama
no
> > sail
> > > > force
> > > > > > it would fold and aka would drag in the water. I used
rubber
> > > > bands
> > > > > > pinned top and bottom of aka and extended foil deck .It
help
> > > > some
> > > > > > but abanded the idea.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ..... you would need to use the rubber bands on the bottom
only
> > > > > so it would hold up the weight of the out rigger
> > > > >
> > > > > when no wind is present .......
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking something like the windsurf
> > > > > > base that connecting the mast to the board they have a
> > flexible
> > > > > > tending that allow the mast to be held up straight and
in
> > place
> > > > with
> > > > > > little effort but flexes to 90 degrees in any direction.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ...... I know of a guy using them to change on direction !
> > > > > from one to the other bow ......
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe 3 or
> > > > > > 4 of these for smaller craft or use same concept and
build
> > > > bigger
> > > > > > ones for larger craft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ...... on bigger then model vfps
> > > > > you dont get around stayed masts .....
> > > > >
> > > > > or you have a catastrophy on cruising !
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Todd
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth"
<fritz_roth@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ... I had a chance yesterday >
> > > > > > > to test the small hinged fin model again >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > but because it was so nasty
> > > > > > > I did even take a camara with me
> > > > > > > and the other guy had to work ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the visibility was so bad
> > > > > > > I needed to search after the little thing
> > > > > > > on the other side
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > because I had lost visual contact !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > but now it finally came to me
> > > > > > > what I have been seaching for years >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > take a look at the > vfp pf < in files >
> > > > > > > where a fin pluges into the bridge deck
> > > > > > > and bends on stress from the interia
> > > > > > > when sailing fast in waves !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > now picture the hinge of the vfp 25x8
> > > > > > > without the float under
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > being right at the point
> > > > > > > where the fin slides into the bridge deck
> > > > > > > and >>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > having in the center there >>>
> > > > > > > a batton like on a main sail
> > > > > > > keeping the bridge deck level
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > but letting it bend easily on demand
> > > > > > > with out changing the geometry of the fin aligment ....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and having some lee ward pod for storing heavy things
> > > > > > > to balance the weights out !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > looks to me this will be the next model
> > > > > > > for me to build !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > being a 1/4 model > 8' loa
> > > > > > > using some parts from some previous test .....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I will load up some drawings of this concept
> > > > > > > after I have it all sorted out  ....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@...> wrote:
>
> Sure if you use a float.



....... in any practical cruising concept
it will be hard to get around a float




But the whole point of the self aligning
> hinge is to get rid of the float. With out float and no friction or
> mechanical advantage in the hinge. The hinge just doesn't work in
> light and variable wind conditions. Or that well in sub apperant
> wind condition.



..... take a look at the vfp 30 pfr !
shown in files .....

you use diagonal glas
to keep the > red < batton flexing up and down
but not twisting

this works !

as does the hinge with a batton
but this should be more certain
pertaining to a definite aoa ....

as far as hinge friction is concerned >
just take teflon tubing

one in an other

and you will have no friction it all
no problems ...

even the crude hinge on my model is no problem .......





>
> Todd
>
> I tested my lee foil with and with out unidirectional today. Winds
> were 15 mph plus. The geometry still needs to to be worked though
> and better sail sheeting arrangement. I'm now wondering what it
> would do with another lifting foil identical to the leefoil on
> windward side as well would do. Instead of the gripping or down
> force foil as in my other test.
>
> I have poster 3 videos with ama working on posting the no ama
> version.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSvI4VXpVJ8&feature=user



...... I have seen the land test !

where is the water test ?






>
> --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On the mast windsurf tendons I was talking about using them as
> the
> > > joint for the pivoting foil, full size boat. Inline forming the
> > > joint.
> > >
> > > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ..... I see ......
> >
> >
> > you could even use them then >
> > to move the fin >>
> > back on changing the direction
> >
> > if you have two of them on your float
> > and two just hinges on the fin top !
> >
> > having two stream lined beams >
> >
> > so the vf can move along the horizontal
> > back and forth
> >
> > and up and down ......
> >
> > but still be aligned for your proper aoa !
> >
> > this would be great for adjusting your balance
> > and running down wind in a surf .....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Fritz ,
> > > > >
> > > > > I had the same problem with my hinged foil with no ama no
> sail
> > > force
> > > > > it would fold and aka would drag in the water. I used rubber
> > > bands
> > > > > pinned top and bottom of aka and extended foil deck .It help
> > > some
> > > > > but abanded the idea.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ..... you would need to use the rubber bands on the bottom only
> > > > so it would hold up the weight of the out rigger
> > > >
> > > > when no wind is present .......
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking something like the windsurf
> > > > > base that connecting the mast to the board they have a
> flexible
> > > > > tending that allow the mast to be held up straight and in
> place
> > > with
> > > > > little effort but flexes to 90 degrees in any direction.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ...... I know of a guy using them to change on direction !
> > > > from one to the other bow ......
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe 3 or
> > > > > 4 of these for smaller craft or use same concept and build
> > > bigger
> > > > > ones for larger craft.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ...... on bigger then model vfps
> > > > you dont get around stayed masts .....
> > > >
> > > > or you have a catastrophy on cruising !
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Todd
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ... I had a chance yesterday >
> > > > > > to test the small hinged fin model again >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but because it was so nasty
> > > > > > I did even take a camara with me
> > > > > > and the other guy had to work ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the visibility was so bad
> > > > > > I needed to search after the little thing
> > > > > > on the other side
> > > > > >
> > > > > > because I had lost visual contact !
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but now it finally came to me
> > > > > > what I have been seaching for years >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > take a look at the > vfp pf < in files >
> > > > > > where a fin pluges into the bridge deck
> > > > > > and bends on stress from the interia
> > > > > > when sailing fast in waves !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > now picture the hinge of the vfp 25x8
> > > > > > without the float under
> > > > > >
> > > > > > being right at the point
> > > > > > where the fin slides into the bridge deck
> > > > > > and >>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > having in the center there >>>
> > > > > > a batton like on a main sail
> > > > > > keeping the bridge deck level
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but letting it bend easily on demand
> > > > > > with out changing the geometry of the fin aligment ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and having some lee ward pod for storing heavy things
> > > > > > to balance the weights out !
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > looks to me this will be the next model
> > > > > > for me to build !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > being a 1/4 model > 8' loa
> > > > > > using some parts from some previous test .....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will load up some drawings of this concept
> > > > > > after I have it all sorted out  ....
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Sure if you use a float. But the whole point of the self aligning
hinge is to get rid of the float. With out float and no friction or
mechanical advantage in the hinge. The hinge just doesn't work in
light and variable wind conditions. Or that well in sub apperant
wind condition.

Todd

I tested my lee foil with and with out unidirectional today. Winds
were 15 mph plus. The geometry still needs to to be worked though
and better sail sheeting arrangement. I'm now wondering what it
would do with another lifting foil identical to the leefoil on
windward side as well would do. Instead of the gripping or down
force foil as in my other test.

I have poster 3 videos with ama working on posting the no ama
version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSvI4VXpVJ8&feature=user




--- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@...> wrote:
>
> --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On the mast windsurf tendons I was talking about using them as
the
> > joint for the pivoting foil, full size boat. Inline forming the
> > joint.
> >
> > Todd
>
>
>
>
> ..... I see ......
>
>
> you could even use them then >
> to move the fin >>
> back on changing the direction
>
> if you have two of them on your float
> and two just hinges on the fin top !
>
> having two stream lined beams >
>
> so the vf can move along the horizontal
> back and forth
>
> and up and down ......
>
> but still be aligned for your proper aoa !
>
> this would be great for adjusting your balance
> and running down wind in a surf .....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Fritz ,
> > > >
> > > > I had the same problem with my hinged foil with no ama no
sail
> > force
> > > > it would fold and aka would drag in the water. I used rubber
> > bands
> > > > pinned top and bottom of aka and extended foil deck .It help
> > some
> > > > but abanded the idea.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ..... you would need to use the rubber bands on the bottom only
> > > so it would hold up the weight of the out rigger
> > >
> > > when no wind is present .......
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was thinking something like the windsurf
> > > > base that connecting the mast to the board they have a
flexible
> > > > tending that allow the mast to be held up straight and in
place
> > with
> > > > little effort but flexes to 90 degrees in any direction.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ...... I know of a guy using them to change on direction !
> > > from one to the other bow ......
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Maybe 3 or
> > > > 4 of these for smaller craft or use same concept and build
> > bigger
> > > > ones for larger craft.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ...... on bigger then model vfps
> > > you dont get around stayed masts .....
> > >
> > > or you have a catastrophy on cruising !
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > --- In proatech@yahoogroups.com, "fritz_roth" <fritz_roth@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ... I had a chance yesterday >
> > > > > to test the small hinged fin model again >
> > > > >
> > > > > but because it was so nasty
> > > > > I did even take a camara with me
> > > > > and the other guy had to work ...
> > > > >
> > > > > the visibility was so bad
> > > > > I needed to search after the little thing
> > > > > on the other side
> > > > >
> > > > > because I had lost visual contact !
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > but now it finally came to me
> > > > > what I have been seaching for years >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > take a look at the > vfp pf < in files >
> > > > > where a fin pluges into the bridge deck
> > > > > and bends on stress from the interia
> > > > > when sailing fast in waves !
> > > > >
> > > > > now picture the hinge of the vfp 25x8
> > > > > without the float under
> > > > >
> > > > > being right at the point
> > > > > where the fin slides into the bridge deck
> > > > > and >>>
> > > > >
> > > > > having in the center there >>>
> > > > > a batton like on a main sail
> > > > > keeping the bridge deck level
> > > > >
> > > > > but letting it bend easily on demand
> > > > > with out changing the geometry of the fin aligment ....
> > > > >
> > > > > and having some lee ward pod for storing heavy things
> > > > > to balance the weights out !
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > looks to me this will be the next model
> > > > > for me to build !
> > > > >
> > > > > being a 1/4 model > 8' loa
> > > > > using some parts from some previous test .....
> > > > >
> > > > > I will load up some drawings of this concept
> > > > > after I have it all sorted out  ....
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>