After reading messages on this list and lots of literature on the subject
(and the flawd prostate cancer study wasn't the only concern), I decided
not to take the risk of messing around with plumbing that is working just
fine.  Likewise, my wife read enough horror stories about complications
from tubal ligation to scare us away from that procedure.  Her blood
pressure is borderline, so the pill isn't an option.  And of course we had
tired of the loss of sponteneity of condom use.  After much research and
consultation with her O.B./Gyn, we opted to try an IUD.  They've made major
improvements since the ones that had caused so much uproar in the 70's, and
all the literature seemed to indicate that the ones used now are very safe
and effective.  The most attractive thing was that the procedure is
completely reversible, so that if there were any signs of trouble we could
simply have it removed.  If there are no problems, then she should be
through menopause before it would need to be replaced (they are good for
about 10 years).  And the procedure was even cheaper than a vasectomy.  My
wife said there was minor discomfort during the insertion, but no more than
during any normal pelvic exam with a Pap smear.

It was one of the best decisions we've made!  While I never had any
complaints about our sex life before, it's now better than ever.  I'd
forgotten how much better it was without a condom.

Check it out, you may find it a viable option.

Good luck!

From the post vasectomy perspective, It is the best thing I have done since I
got married.  Well, since I've had my fair share of children and don't need
anymore ;-D

I have had no problems since my vasectomy 5 years ago.  The procedure is
relatively simple and painless, and it only took a couple of days for any
discomfort to go away.

As far as our sex life.  It has been wonderful.  Talk about spontaneous, wild
abandon, all the good stuff that goes along with sex.  No bother with
condoms, creams, suppositories, birth control pills, etc., and the associated
mess, interruptions, and expense.

Also, if you are worried about that study that linked vasectomies with
prostate cancer, Have no fear.  The study was found to be flawed and not
valid.  No correlation exists between these two.

Hope this helps.

G.

Hey Guys,

I am looking for your personal pre- and post-vasectomy experiences, both good
and bad.  I want to go into the doctor's office armed with as much knowledge
as I can.

I have not yet discussed the procedure with my GP, and will be having my
annual in the next few weeks.

Thanks so much!

Kevin

Quest1962@...

For someone who has had a vasectomy recently,would you do it all over again?From
the research I have done on this subject,I'm not sure of the long term effects
of this procedure,in terms of your health down the road.I understand there
hasn't been enough studies to conclude this medical procedure as really being as
safe as they would like you to beleive.

To me 37 years. Has exposed vasectomies per 30 years. In batches (time per 2
months) I have peakings an epididymitis that on one, on other testis. The doctor
recommendes an epididymectomy, one I do not hurry it to make...

Hello:

I had my vasectomy on December 11, 1998 and I still every once in a while
have some pain in my left testicle and in the area where the actual vas was
cut.  It is much better now, and I'm hoping that it continues to improve.
Since yours has only been a few weeks, I would keep a close check on it to
make sure that you do not have any swelling or infection.  If it continues,
check back with your doctor.

Good Luck!


----Original Message Follows----
From: "JulEd0822" <JulEd0822@...>
Reply-To: post_vasectomy@onelist.com
To: <post_vasectomy@onelist.com>
Subject: [post_vasectomy] Greetings
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:36:04 -0500

I had my vasectomy on the 17 th of August 1999. I am experiencing some pain
in the testicle area and I am concerned of post vasectomy syndrome. I have
explained my situation with the Doctor and he has prescribed Motrin for pain
which does little more than upset my stomach. Has anyone else experienced
something like this?

I had my vasectomy on the 17 th of August 1999. I am experiencing some pain in
the testicle area and I am concerned of post vasectomy syndrome. I have
explained my situation with the Doctor and he has prescribed Motrin for pain
which does little more than upset my stomach. Has anyone else experienced
something like this?

Subj:    HOW A VASECTOMY CAUSES THE BODY TO FIGHT AGAINST ITSELF

> HOW A VASECTOMY CAUSES THE BODY TO FIGHT AGAINST ITSELF >
After a vasectomy, sperm production remains the same: about 50,000
spermatozoa each minute. Having "no way out," these cells, are either
consumed by the body's destroyer cells, or they leak or degenerate,
producing antigens or " foreign substances." These antigens infiltrate
the bloodstream and cause the body to manufacture antibodies to defend
itself against them.  This sequence produces an "autoimmune" response,
causing the body to become allergic to its own tissue. These "antisperm
auto-antibodies" have been found in 55 percent to 75 percent of
vacectomy patients within two years after the surgery.  Some doctors
suspect that a whole series of long-term systemic disorders may be
caused by vasectomies. Their bases for this belief is that the only common
  denominator in the men who were studied was a previous vasectomy.
< PHYSICAL DISORDERS >
The disorders that are now being linked with the auto-immune reaction after
vasectomy include unexplained thrombophlebitis, prolonged fever, generalized
lymph node enlargement, recurrent infection, skin eruptions, multiple
sclerosis,
liver dysfunction, and rheumatoid arthritis.  In addition to these health
problems,
several studies have revealed a statistically significant association between
the
risk of prostate cancer and the history of vasectomy. The risk of prostate
cancer in men who have had a vasectomy is more than three times that of
those who were not vasectomized.  Men who have had vasectomies more
than 20 years ago might have an 85 percent to 90 percent higher risk of
developing prostate cancer than men who have not had a vasectomy.
The earlier the age that a man had a vasectomy, the greater the risk he has
of developing prostate cancer.
>PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDERS >
Psychological disturbances may occur immediately or many years after
vasectomy. One study which tested patients before and one year after surgery
indicated that over 40 percent of vasectomized men experienced personality
problems as a result of the vasectomy. These psychological consequences
may include the following, feeling of "stripped masculinity," marital
difficulties,
attitude of rejecting children, and envy of other people's children and the
ability
to have them.
"Long-term complications of vasectomy," by Dr. Anthony H. Horan  H.J.
Roberts,
"Volentary Sterilization in the male," British Medical Journal E.
Giovannucci, et al.,
"A Retrospective Cohort Study of Vasectomy and Prostate Cancer in US Men,"
JAMA(VOL 269) Chuck Michelini,
"Vasectomy Linked To Tripled Prostated Cancer," Medical World News H. Edey,
" Psychological Aspects of Vasectomy," Medical Counterpoint

Hi Noel:

You might consider a combination of pain-killers.  I have found that
buffered aspirin in the morning (afer a slice of toast!) and ibuprofen at
lunch make me comfortable during the day.  If I'm still being bothered at
night, I use regular aspirin then.

I had a vasectomy four years ago, and have been bothered with pain on and
off ever since.  I've discovered that the pain seems to shortly overcome any
one pain-killer if used exclusively.

Currently, my chief complaint involves the left testis.  There is a
"pinching" sensation in the morning as I get up and start moving around.
Sometimes during the commute to work the discomfort can be annoying, so I
make sure to take the aspirin before leaving the house.
Unfortunately, not much seems to be known about post-vastectomy pain.  My
urologist told me that he couldn't find anything out of the ordinary--while
reaching for a prescription pad to write out a prescription for pain meds.
I refused the pain meds on the grounds that if he didn't know what was
causing the problem, then he had no business prescribing medication for it!

I advise against getting heavily involved with prescription pain
medications.  They can have serious side effects that may be all out of
proportion to the discomfort you are experiencing.  Of course, severe,
intractable pain should be dealt with vigorously and promptly.

I've two brothers who also had vasectomies, and neither have reported any of
the problems I've experienced.

If you've had any sperm granulomas develop, be careful not to fuss with
those too much--they are your body's natural reaction to sperm that leaked
from the site of the surgery and if you don't let them subside naturally,
you might encourage them to expand and involve some nerves in their
structure.   I've had several granulomas form over the past four years and
they've all gradually shrunk down to very small lumps--which is the way you
want them, nice and quiet!

Good luck to you!

Ric

In a message dated 8/24/99 2:08:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
katrina@... writes:

> From: katrina@...
>
>  Hi, my name is Noel and I had a vasectomy in May of this year, as my wife
> and I have five children.  The vasectomy went fine, but now I am suffering
> from a constant nagging pain in my right testicle and tube.  My doctor has
> prescribed pain-killers on two occasions.  This seems to heal the problem
for
> a few weeks, however, the pain then seems to re-appear.  Has anyone else
> suffered from this problem?
>
>
  <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~sterilization_rights/">Vasectomy Tubal
Coalition important</A>  hope this helps

Hi, my name is Noel and I had a vasectomy in May of this year, as my wife and I
have five children.  The vasectomy went fine, but now I am suffering from a
constant nagging pain in my right testicle and tube.  My doctor has prescribed
pain-killers on two occasions.  This seems to heal the problem for a few weeks,
however, the pain then seems to re-appear.  Has anyone else suffered from this
problem?

Proponents of Patient's Rights will be sponsoring a rally at the AMA Building in
Chicago on August 27, 1999.

This event is the first of it's kind.  It's the coming together of may small
organations and groups (such as this one) to form a national allience.

I can not stress how important it is for everyone to turn out for this event.
Anyone (men, women, and childern) is invited.-  this event is about and for 
anyone who uses or may need medical care, as well as for people who have been a
victim of med mal or of the system.

If anyone wants to contribute their story, but can not attend, it's asked that
you write it or tape it -  Please pass the word and have anyone interested get
in contact with Debra  Dixon (see below for more Debra Dixons contact and for
more information)


  On August 28 we are sponsoring a
Victim Impact Forum/Press Conference that will provide victims/survivors
with an opportunity to share their stories in a public forum. On the 29th
advocates/victims/survivors will have an opportunity to meet and work on
common issues to the cause of Patient's Rights including a Spring
Conference in Washington.  This rally will be of no interest to you or your
family if you are sure that you will never need health care.  If this is
not the case please support those who are fighting this long, hard battle
for accountability in medicine.

HOTEL
The Patient's Rights Rally of 1999 will be at the Radisson Northbrook and
the AMA building.  They are offering us a special rate so please mention
the Medical Malpractice Conference. Call (847)298-2525

REGISTRATION
Please send your registration fee of $20.00 per family to ARM ASAP:
Conference Registration
Association For Responsible Medicine
P.O. Box 270986
Tampa, Florida 33688

In the memo section of your check please write "Chicago Medical Malpractice
Conference." This will help ARM keep the funds separate.
Please include with the following information with your registration fee:
1) name address, phone #
2) how many in party (spouse, children you do not have to send $20 per
person)
3) how arriving - car, bus, plane - and expected time of arrival
4) will you stay in hotel - if yes, how many nights
5) occupation
6) Description of medical malpractice experience (optional)
7) Do you want to present your experience during the Victim Impact Forum?
8) Organizational affiliations
9) Are you a mental health provider?
10) email address

VICTIM IMPACT FORUM/PRESS CONFERENCE

Please contact VJC Inc. at (765)2922590 or email
JusticeDenied@... if you would like to participate by either
telling your story or speaking on a topic.  If you can not make the
conference and would like to share your experience through video or other
means please let me know.  We are willing to do whatever we can to make
your voice heard.

We need for the sponsors, advocates and victims/survivors to please provide
VJC Inc a list of those they are inviting to the Victim Impact Forum.  This
should include media and policymakers.  That does not mean that we are
excluding others only that the purpose of this Forum is to provide the
victims/survivors with the opportunity to educate the public on medical
malpractice and their experiences. You will soon be receiving an invitation
for distribution.

Indiana Wants You...

On August 26, 1999 there will be a hearing in Indianapolis regarding the
license of Robert Morgan.  For more information on this case go to
http://www.howdyneighbor.com/JusticeDenied  Then go to the Justice Denied
section and then to the Robbie Rollin story.  If you can come to
Indianapolis first to rally during this hearing please contact VJC Inc.  We
will provide transportation from Indianapolis to Chicago after the
Indianapolis rally.  After reading this story you will understand the
importance of this case.

Justice For Sale
Follow-up to announcement on Dr. Ralph Speken's website: For history refer
to previous email entitled Hospital Threatens to "Destroy" VJC Board
Member, MD and Med Mal Survivor. Please note that this site at
www.med-malpractice.com has been locked down. Please conclude that the only
First Amendment (or any other) Rights you have are those that you can buy.
Please question why you may never again hear about the tragic and
unnecessary death of his beloved son Seth Speken. Please question what it
would take to silence such a committed activist and injured family.

Volunteers Needed
If anyone is willing and able to act as a volunteer coordinator please
contact me.
Please distribute this as a flyer to those who are not on the internet.

This Rally & Conference is being sponsored by:
American Society for Action on Pain (ASAP)
The Association For Responsible Medicine (ARM)
The Breast Implant Information Exchange of Illinois
Canadian Connection
The Coalition For Consumer Rights
Coalition for Post Tubal Women
Families Advocating Injury Reduction (FAIR)
National Patient's Rights Alliance (NPRA)
New England Patients' Rights Group, Inc. (NEPRG)
Patients In Arms
PULSE of Colorado
PULSE of New York
PULSE of Washington
Spencer & Maston, LLP
Toxic Discovery Network Inc. (TDN)
The Victim's Justice Center Inc. (VJC)

Please forgive any duplicate mailing. If you are interested in sponsoring
this rally or have any questions please
contact VJC Inc. at JusticeDenied@... or (765)2922590.
Please distribute this notice freely.  Please do not alter text or add
graphics.

"Won't you please come to Chicago? No one else can take your place." -
Crosby Stills & Nash

Did you know that:

-  Deaths due to medical malpractice are the equivalent of three jumbo jet
crashes every two days (JAMA)
-  Medical Malpractice is the third leading preventable cause of death
killing more people per year than AIDS or breast cancer (Trial)
- Medical malpractice can effect those who survive severely. The
devastation is broad sweeping and effects victim's and their loved ones
financially, emotionally and physically. (The Lancet & Social Problems)
-  To avoid responsibility the medical community often blames and
discredits the victim, offers no explanation or apology and goes to great
lengths to cover up the initial error. (The Lancet, Trial, Social Problems
& Medical Malpractice Journal)
-  Victims are frequently injured seriously during the cover-up phase.
(Medical Malpractice Journal)
-  Common feelings expressed are anger, betrayal, bitterness, fear,
humiliation and loss of trust.  "Strong feelings are aroused and relatives
are distressed even years later." (The Lancet, Social Problems & Peoples
Medical Society)
-  "In the USA there are 8 times as many instances of negligence as claims
for compensation.  The chance of a doctor being sued after a negligent
event was only 1 in 50." (The Lancet)
-  Doctors are seldom disciplined and consumers are not protected. (Medical
Malpractice Journal)
For  source citations go to http://www.howdyneighbor.com/JusticeDenied

HELP TO SHINE A LIGHT ON THIS UNNECESSARY SUFFERING

Hi,

I am 40 years old.  I had a vasectomy 4 years ago, a few months after the
birth of our 4th child.  I live in Southern California and have been married
for 12 years.  The procedure was relatively painless and there was some pain
and swelling that lasted only a couple of days afterwards.

Today I enjoy a healthy sex-life with my wife without loss of spontaneity or
fear of pregnancy.  The way sex should be!

Thanks to all who have responded with information and advice (wyzguy, Eric,
and Randall).  So far the "pro" vasectomy side is lagging way behind.  I'm
sure glad I found this list BEFORE I made a decision!  I'm going to look
long and hard before I let anyone near my privates with snippers, at least
for voluntary surgery.

- Heisenberg

---wyzguy  wrote:
>
> From: wyzguy <wyzguy@...>
>
> I hope you don't really believe that all sperm granulomas are good.
> The pressure is on your epididymis and the sperm can cause an allergic
> reaction . You sure don't know the whole story, guy
>
>
>
>
>
> ---Eric D  wrote:
> >
> > From: "Eric D" <morgorn@...>
> >
> > Hello Werner Heisenberg:
> >
> > I advise you to carefully think over how comfortable you would be
> with
> > any changes made to your body.  Everyone has different levels of
> > sensitivity to change.  How you would react to the changes invoked
> by a
> > vasectomy would depend a great deal on how much you are aware of
your
> > own body and sensations.
> >
> > I have two brothers who've had vasectomies and reported absolutely
no
> > adverse effects.
> >
> > I had a vasectomy when I was 35 (I am now 39) and have experienced
a
> > persistent ache from the area surrounding one testicle.  This ache
> > usually isn't all that severe, however, it can be distracting at
> times.
> > Sometimes, the ache is very annoying.  At one time, I was actually
> > considering having the testicle removed.  However, at this time,
the
> > ache is tolerable enough that right now I would not consider such a
> > procedure.
> >
> > My urologist denied findings of anything unusual, but did offer a
> > perscription for some medication to reduce swelling (which I
refused
> > because of his attitude of obvious disbelief).
> >
> > I have noticed that during and directly after ejaculation, that
> there is
> > a sensation of "pressure" in the testicles/scrotum area.  My
> urologist
> > explained that some men do experience a feeling of pressure during
> > ejaculation, but they become used to it and do not notice it after
a
> > certian period of time.  My urologist actually snapped at me that I
> "had
> > to expect a certain amount of congestion!"  Fine, I will accept
that,
> > however, he DID NOT let me know to expect any such congestion prior
> to
> > the procedure.
> >
> > It is not a painful sensation--just different.  And that's where
the
> > issue of sensitivity comes in.  Will you feel any difference, and if
> you
> > do, will you adjust and tolerate it?  Or will you become depressed
> and
> > bitter about the changes--and if so, who would you most likely
> blame:
> > The doctor?  The medical community?  Yourself?  Your wife?
> >
> > I still notice the pressure now and then, but it doesn't concern me
> > much.  However, since the "pressure" situation wasn't explained to
me
> > until AFTER the vasectomy, I thought I'd pass that along to you.
> >
> > I'm personally convinced that vasectomy DOES bring about changes in
> > sexual sensation, but they are slight and most men simply are not
"in
> > tune" with their bodies enough to really notice.  Most men do not
> > experience any long-term problems with pain.  Those men who do,
> however,
> > are most likely in for a really humiliating session with their
> urologist
> > who will railroad them out of their exam room as fast as
> possible--after
> > all, they've already been paid by your insurance company.
> >
> > As a side note, I belonged to an HMO at the time of my vasectomy.
> When
> > I developed two lumps a short time after the procedure (later found
> out
> > these were "normal and expected" sperm granulomas) my primary care
> > physician was unable to refer me back to the urologist because the
> HMO
> > would not approve follow up visits to urologist for six months after
> the
> > vasectomy procedure.  It took me a while to find out the lumps were
> > "normal and expected."
> >
> > Sperm granulomas are actually good things, as it turns out.  They
> serve
> > as pressure relief valves--the scar tissue allows the sperm more
> contact
> > with the body so that they can be broken down and disolved faster.
> >
> > Sperm production, by the way, will diminish as the granulomas will
> fade
> > away in a year or two.  Both of the granulomas I developed have
> shrunk
> > down into tiny little lumps.
> >
> > Remember that the primary reason your urologist is there in his/her
> > clinic is MAKE money.  They have their eye on that glorious lot and
> that
> > beautiful country club out there at Desert Mountain in Scottsdale,
> > Arizona.  Before SPENDING your money (or, at least, your
deductible),
> > ask questions!  Don't be embarrassed.  Be specific about what you
> want
> > to know.  If your doctor assumes a casual and dismissive tone with
> you
> > prior to the procedure, then you can expect the same or even worse
> after
> > the procedure if you (God forbid) encounter any problems.
> >
> > I'm afraid I've rambled a little, but I hope I've spurred you to be
> > cautious and to do some thinking.  Good luck to you!
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Heisenberg <heisenberg@...>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am a 38 (nearly 39) year old male; my wife is 40.   We have two
> > children
> > and don't plan on any more.  We are considering some form of
> > sterilization,
> > and began doing research on the Internet to learn about our options.
>  In
> > the process, I stumbled across the post-vasectomy/tubal ligation
> page,
> > and
> > was most troubled by what I read.  A couple of days ago I subscribed
> to
> > this mail list to hear what those of you who have had vasectomies
> have
> > to
> > say.  Unfortunately, I have not yet received any messages, so I
don't
> > even
> > know if the list is still active.
> >
> > If any of you have any advice for me, I'd like to hear it. I post
> under
> > the
> > pseudonym of Werner Heisenberg to protect my privacy; please don't
be
> > offended - I'm just a little cautious when communicating in a new
> forum.
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
> >
> > - Heisenberg
> >
> > At 10:42 PM 2/9/99 -0000, you wrote:
> > >Welcome to the Post Vasectomy List.
> > >              You are now registered.
> > >
> > >When sending mail to the list please mail to:
> > >     post_vasectomy@onelist.com
> > >
> > >This list is a public forum for men who have had a vasectomy, or
who
> > are
> > >considering having one.
> > >
> > >We believe that we are the first public forum to be dedicated to
men
> > and
> > >vasectomies.
> > >
> > >Currently there are over 4.2 million men in the United States who
> have
> > had a
> > >vasectomy and the numbers are growing.  This area of health care
has
> > suffered
> > >from a lack of  follow up reseach.  This forum will provide an
arena
> > for
> > men to
> > >meet and discuss their experiences.
> > >
> > >Please give us a short "newbie"  introduction about
> > >yourself so we know who you are.
> > >
> > >A little about who we are...
> > >
> > >This "Post Vasectomy" mailing list and the Vasectomy-Tubal
Coalition
> > was
> > formed
> > >in conjuction with the  National Insutitue For Health Care Rights
> > (NIHCR).
> > >
> > >              The aim of the NIHCR is to:
> > >              Educate Consumers about Health Care and Rights
> > >              Create Laws to Protect Consumers
> > >              Help Consumers Seek Fairness in Health Care
> > >
> > >The NIHCR Reproductive Health Care Division will soon be conducting
> a
> > >national study regarding "SURGICAL STERILIZATION".  Notice
> > >of when of when the study is to begin and an invitation to
> > >particapate will be sent to the group well in advance. At that time
>
=== message truncated ===

I hope you don't really believe that all sperm granulomas are good.
The pressure is on your epididymis and the sperm can cause an allergic
reaction . You sure don't know the whole story, guy





---Eric D  wrote:
>
> From: "Eric D" <morgorn@...>
>
> Hello Werner Heisenberg:
>
> I advise you to carefully think over how comfortable you would be
with
> any changes made to your body.  Everyone has different levels of
> sensitivity to change.  How you would react to the changes invoked
by a
> vasectomy would depend a great deal on how much you are aware of your
> own body and sensations.
>
> I have two brothers who've had vasectomies and reported absolutely no
> adverse effects.
>
> I had a vasectomy when I was 35 (I am now 39) and have experienced a
> persistent ache from the area surrounding one testicle.  This ache
> usually isn't all that severe, however, it can be distracting at
times.
> Sometimes, the ache is very annoying.  At one time, I was actually
> considering having the testicle removed.  However, at this time, the
> ache is tolerable enough that right now I would not consider such a
> procedure.
>
> My urologist denied findings of anything unusual, but did offer a
> perscription for some medication to reduce swelling (which I refused
> because of his attitude of obvious disbelief).
>
> I have noticed that during and directly after ejaculation, that
there is
> a sensation of "pressure" in the testicles/scrotum area.  My
urologist
> explained that some men do experience a feeling of pressure during
> ejaculation, but they become used to it and do not notice it after a
> certian period of time.  My urologist actually snapped at me that I
"had
> to expect a certain amount of congestion!"  Fine, I will accept that,
> however, he DID NOT let me know to expect any such congestion prior
to
> the procedure.
>
> It is not a painful sensation--just different.  And that's where the
> issue of sensitivity comes in.  Will you feel any difference, and if
you
> do, will you adjust and tolerate it?  Or will you become depressed
and
> bitter about the changes--and if so, who would you most likely
blame:
> The doctor?  The medical community?  Yourself?  Your wife?
>
> I still notice the pressure now and then, but it doesn't concern me
> much.  However, since the "pressure" situation wasn't explained to me
> until AFTER the vasectomy, I thought I'd pass that along to you.
>
> I'm personally convinced that vasectomy DOES bring about changes in
> sexual sensation, but they are slight and most men simply are not "in
> tune" with their bodies enough to really notice.  Most men do not
> experience any long-term problems with pain.  Those men who do,
however,
> are most likely in for a really humiliating session with their
urologist
> who will railroad them out of their exam room as fast as
possible--after
> all, they've already been paid by your insurance company.
>
> As a side note, I belonged to an HMO at the time of my vasectomy.
When
> I developed two lumps a short time after the procedure (later found
out
> these were "normal and expected" sperm granulomas) my primary care
> physician was unable to refer me back to the urologist because the
HMO
> would not approve follow up visits to urologist for six months after
the
> vasectomy procedure.  It took me a while to find out the lumps were
> "normal and expected."
>
> Sperm granulomas are actually good things, as it turns out.  They
serve
> as pressure relief valves--the scar tissue allows the sperm more
contact
> with the body so that they can be broken down and disolved faster.
>
> Sperm production, by the way, will diminish as the granulomas will
fade
> away in a year or two.  Both of the granulomas I developed have
shrunk
> down into tiny little lumps.
>
> Remember that the primary reason your urologist is there in his/her
> clinic is MAKE money.  They have their eye on that glorious lot and
that
> beautiful country club out there at Desert Mountain in Scottsdale,
> Arizona.  Before SPENDING your money (or, at least, your deductible),
> ask questions!  Don't be embarrassed.  Be specific about what you
want
> to know.  If your doctor assumes a casual and dismissive tone with
you
> prior to the procedure, then you can expect the same or even worse
after
> the procedure if you (God forbid) encounter any problems.
>
> I'm afraid I've rambled a little, but I hope I've spurred you to be
> cautious and to do some thinking.  Good luck to you!
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> From: Heisenberg <heisenberg@...>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am a 38 (nearly 39) year old male; my wife is 40.   We have two
> children
> and don't plan on any more.  We are considering some form of
> sterilization,
> and began doing research on the Internet to learn about our options.
  In
> the process, I stumbled across the post-vasectomy/tubal ligation
page,
> and
> was most troubled by what I read.  A couple of days ago I subscribed
to
> this mail list to hear what those of you who have had vasectomies
have
> to
> say.  Unfortunately, I have not yet received any messages, so I don't
> even
> know if the list is still active.
>
> If any of you have any advice for me, I'd like to hear it. I post
under
> the
> pseudonym of Werner Heisenberg to protect my privacy; please don't be
> offended - I'm just a little cautious when communicating in a new
forum.
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> - Heisenberg
>
> At 10:42 PM 2/9/99 -0000, you wrote:
> >Welcome to the Post Vasectomy List.
> >              You are now registered.
> >
> >When sending mail to the list please mail to:
> >     post_vasectomy@onelist.com
> >
> >This list is a public forum for men who have had a vasectomy, or who
> are
> >considering having one.
> >
> >We believe that we are the first public forum to be dedicated to men
> and
> >vasectomies.
> >
> >Currently there are over 4.2 million men in the United States who
have
> had a
> >vasectomy and the numbers are growing.  This area of health care has
> suffered
> >from a lack of  follow up reseach.  This forum will provide an arena
> for
> men to
> >meet and discuss their experiences.
> >
> >Please give us a short "newbie"  introduction about
> >yourself so we know who you are.
> >
> >A little about who we are...
> >
> >This "Post Vasectomy" mailing list and the Vasectomy-Tubal Coalition
> was
> formed
> >in conjuction with the  National Insutitue For Health Care Rights
> (NIHCR).
> >
> >              The aim of the NIHCR is to:
> >              Educate Consumers about Health Care and Rights
> >              Create Laws to Protect Consumers
> >              Help Consumers Seek Fairness in Health Care
> >
> >The NIHCR Reproductive Health Care Division will soon be conducting
a
> >national study regarding "SURGICAL STERILIZATION".  Notice
> >of when of when the study is to begin and an invitation to
> >particapate will be sent to the group well in advance. At that time
a
> formal
> >questionnaire will be sent to you.
> >
> >...In the meanwhile this forum has been created.
> >
> >If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, go to the
> >ONElist web site, at www.onelist.com, and select the User Center
link
> from
> the
> >menu bar on the left.
> >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Hello Werner Heisenberg:

I advise you to carefully think over how comfortable you would be with
any changes made to your body.  Everyone has different levels of
sensitivity to change.  How you would react to the changes invoked by a
vasectomy would depend a great deal on how much you are aware of your
own body and sensations.

I have two brothers who've had vasectomies and reported absolutely no
adverse effects.

I had a vasectomy when I was 35 (I am now 39) and have experienced a
persistent ache from the area surrounding one testicle.  This ache
usually isn't all that severe, however, it can be distracting at times.
Sometimes, the ache is very annoying.  At one time, I was actually
considering having the testicle removed.  However, at this time, the
ache is tolerable enough that right now I would not consider such a
procedure.

My urologist denied findings of anything unusual, but did offer a
perscription for some medication to reduce swelling (which I refused
because of his attitude of obvious disbelief).

I have noticed that during and directly after ejaculation, that there is
a sensation of "pressure" in the testicles/scrotum area.  My urologist
explained that some men do experience a feeling of pressure during
ejaculation, but they become used to it and do not notice it after a
certian period of time.  My urologist actually snapped at me that I "had
to expect a certain amount of congestion!"  Fine, I will accept that,
however, he DID NOT let me know to expect any such congestion prior to
the procedure.

It is not a painful sensation--just different.  And that's where the
issue of sensitivity comes in.  Will you feel any difference, and if you
do, will you adjust and tolerate it?  Or will you become depressed and
bitter about the changes--and if so, who would you most likely blame:
The doctor?  The medical community?  Yourself?  Your wife?

I still notice the pressure now and then, but it doesn't concern me
much.  However, since the "pressure" situation wasn't explained to me
until AFTER the vasectomy, I thought I'd pass that along to you.

I'm personally convinced that vasectomy DOES bring about changes in
sexual sensation, but they are slight and most men simply are not "in
tune" with their bodies enough to really notice.  Most men do not
experience any long-term problems with pain.  Those men who do, however,
are most likely in for a really humiliating session with their urologist
who will railroad them out of their exam room as fast as possible--after
all, they've already been paid by your insurance company.

As a side note, I belonged to an HMO at the time of my vasectomy.  When
I developed two lumps a short time after the procedure (later found out
these were "normal and expected" sperm granulomas) my primary care
physician was unable to refer me back to the urologist because the HMO
would not approve follow up visits to urologist for six months after the
vasectomy procedure.  It took me a while to find out the lumps were
"normal and expected."

Sperm granulomas are actually good things, as it turns out.  They serve
as pressure relief valves--the scar tissue allows the sperm more contact
with the body so that they can be broken down and disolved faster.

Sperm production, by the way, will diminish as the granulomas will fade
away in a year or two.  Both of the granulomas I developed have shrunk
down into tiny little lumps.

Remember that the primary reason your urologist is there in his/her
clinic is MAKE money.  They have their eye on that glorious lot and that
beautiful country club out there at Desert Mountain in Scottsdale,
Arizona.  Before SPENDING your money (or, at least, your deductible),
ask questions!  Don't be embarrassed.  Be specific about what you want
to know.  If your doctor assumes a casual and dismissive tone with you
prior to the procedure, then you can expect the same or even worse after
the procedure if you (God forbid) encounter any problems.

I'm afraid I've rambled a little, but I hope I've spurred you to be
cautious and to do some thinking.  Good luck to you!

Eric



From: Heisenberg <heisenberg@...>

Hello,

I am a 38 (nearly 39) year old male; my wife is 40.   We have two
children
and don't plan on any more.  We are considering some form of
sterilization,
and began doing research on the Internet to learn about our options.  In
the process, I stumbled across the post-vasectomy/tubal ligation page,
and
was most troubled by what I read.  A couple of days ago I subscribed to
this mail list to hear what those of you who have had vasectomies have
to
say.  Unfortunately, I have not yet received any messages, so I don't
even
know if the list is still active.

If any of you have any advice for me, I'd like to hear it. I post under
the
pseudonym of Werner Heisenberg to protect my privacy; please don't be
offended - I'm just a little cautious when communicating in a new forum.
Thanks in advance for your help.

- Heisenberg

At 10:42 PM 2/9/99 -0000, you wrote:
>Welcome to the Post Vasectomy List.
>              You are now registered.
>
>When sending mail to the list please mail to:
>     post_vasectomy@onelist.com
>
>This list is a public forum for men who have had a vasectomy, or who
are
>considering having one.
>
>We believe that we are the first public forum to be dedicated to men
and
>vasectomies.
>
>Currently there are over 4.2 million men in the United States who have
had a
>vasectomy and the numbers are growing.  This area of health care has
suffered
>from a lack of  follow up reseach.  This forum will provide an arena
for
men to
>meet and discuss their experiences.
>
>Please give us a short "newbie"  introduction about
>yourself so we know who you are.
>
>A little about who we are...
>
>This "Post Vasectomy" mailing list and the Vasectomy-Tubal Coalition
was
formed
>in conjuction with the  National Insutitue For Health Care Rights
(NIHCR).
>
>              The aim of the NIHCR is to:
>              Educate Consumers about Health Care and Rights
>              Create Laws to Protect Consumers
>              Help Consumers Seek Fairness in Health Care
>
>The NIHCR Reproductive Health Care Division will soon be conducting a
>national study regarding "SURGICAL STERILIZATION".  Notice
>of when of when the study is to begin and an invitation to
>particapate will be sent to the group well in advance. At that time a
formal
>questionnaire will be sent to you.
>
>...In the meanwhile this forum has been created.
>
>If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, go to the
>ONElist web site, at www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link
from
the
>menu bar on the left.
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

WERNER,
JUST A NOTE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE VERY REAL RISKS OF VASECTOMY I
HAD ONE 14 MONTH AGO AND HAVE BEEN IN NON STOP TESTUCLAR PAIN EVER SINCE
DUE TO NERVE DAMAGE IN THE SCROTUM.
	 SINCE THEN I HAVE BEEN DOING AS MUCH RESEARCH AS POSSIBLE TO FIND
OUT HOW WIDE SPREAD THIS PROBLEM IS IF YOU WANT ME TO SEND A PACKAGE TO
YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW  AS NEAR AS I CAN TELL 2-10 PERCENT OF MEN HAVE
SOME SORT OF CHRONIC PAIN SYNDROME AFTER A VASECTOMY


		 RANDALL HOFFMAN BALTIMORE MARYLAND, USA

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Hello,

I am a 38 (nearly 39) year old male; my wife is 40.   We have two children
and don't plan on any more.  We are considering some form of sterilization,
and began doing research on the Internet to learn about our options.  In
the process, I stumbled across the post-vasectomy/tubal ligation page, and
was most troubled by what I read.  A couple of days ago I subscribed to
this mail list to hear what those of you who have had vasectomies have to
say.  Unfortunately, I have not yet received any messages, so I don't even
know if the list is still active.

If any of you have any advice for me, I'd like to hear it. I post under the
pseudonym of Werner Heisenberg to protect my privacy; please don't be
offended - I'm just a little cautious when communicating in a new forum.
Thanks in advance for your help.

- Heisenberg

At 10:42 PM 2/9/99 -0000, you wrote:
>Welcome to the Post Vasectomy List.
>              You are now registered.
>
>When sending mail to the list please mail to:
>     post_vasectomy@onelist.com
>
>This list is a public forum for men who have had a vasectomy, or who are
>considering having one.
>
>We believe that we are the first public forum to be dedicated to men and
>vasectomies.
>
>Currently there are over 4.2 million men in the United States who have had a
>vasectomy and the numbers are growing.  This area of health care has suffered
>from a lack of  follow up reseach.  This forum will provide an arena for
men to
>meet and discuss their experiences.
>
>Please give us a short "newbie"  introduction about
>yourself so we know who you are.
>
>A little about who we are...
>
>This "Post Vasectomy" mailing list and the Vasectomy-Tubal Coalition was
formed
>in conjuction with the  National Insutitue For Health Care Rights (NIHCR).
>
>              The aim of the NIHCR is to:
>              Educate Consumers about Health Care and Rights
>              Create Laws to Protect Consumers
>              Help Consumers Seek Fairness in Health Care
>
>The NIHCR Reproductive Health Care Division will soon be conducting a
>national study regarding "SURGICAL STERILIZATION".  Notice
>of when of when the study is to begin and an invitation to
>particapate will be sent to the group well in advance. At that time a formal
>questionnaire will be sent to you.
>
>...In the meanwhile this forum has been created.
>
>If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, go to the
>ONElist web site, at www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from
the
>menu bar on the left.
>
>

I HAD A VASECTOMY OVER A YEAR AGO, AND HAVE BEEN IN SEVERE TESTICULAR
PAIN EVER SINCE. AFTER A YEAR I'M NOW LOOKING INT GETTING CASTRATED TO
GET RID OF THE PAIN . I'VE BEEN TO THE BEST JOHNS HOPKINS HAS TO OFFER,
AND THEY HAVE TOLD ME THAT NOTHING ELSE CAN BE DONE.  PAIN CLINIC AT
HOPKINS HAS TRIED MANY APPROACHES BUT NOTHING WORKS.
	 THIS IS THE EXPERIENCE I'VE HAD WITH A VASECTOMY AND I WOULD
ENCOURAGE YOU TO ABANDON ANY IDEA  OF HAVING THIS DONE. TO ANSWER THE
OBVIOUS QUESTION YES I HAVE A LAWYER. THERE IS INFORMATION ON POST
VASECTOMY PAIN SYNDROME BUT NO DOCTOR WILL TELL YOU IT EXISTS.. I'VE DONE
EXTENSIVE REASEARCH ON THE NET AND WILL SEND COPIES TO YOU IF YOU LIKE.
              MY REASEARCH SHOWS A 2-10% AVG FOR SOME TYPE OF CHRONIC PAIN
SYNDROME


		 I CAN BE REACHED AT MISSAMAN@JUNO .COM

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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> wyzguy <wyzguy@...> wrote:
>
>My advice to you and your boyfriend is that you shouln't mess with
>mother nature. Your body parts are there for a reason, once you start
>cut them or removing them, the body doen't work the same, ever.

I agree to a point wyzguy, however what about dealing with
an accidental birth? Phaedra pretty much exhausted her
contraceptive options. If you aren't properly exercising,
have proper nutrition, supplementing, having colonics etc..
Your body is messed up anyway. Sorry mother nature isn't
providing all the vitamins and minerals the body needs these
days.

My 2 cents

Sapos

First and foremost, I would like to know your age.
I would not consider permanent birth control in a
boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. A vas or tubal
are both huge commitments by the person having
the surgery. I would only do so under the circumstances
that the relationship has that same commitment.
The surgery itself is simple, but results of recent studies
indicate that following microsurgical vasovasostomy sperm
appears in the semen in approximately 85 to 97% of men.
Approximately 50 percent of couples
subsequently achieve a pregnancy.
Following microsurgical vasoepididymostomy, sperm
appears in the semen in approximately 65% of men.
Approximately 20 percent of couples subsequently achieve
  a pregnancy. Not only that but, the longer you wait to reverse
the less chance it will be successful.

I am 28 and my wife and decided not to have children
for various reason. I was totally against "the pill" I know
what harm it has on a woman internally.
And my mother had a tubal, that was absolutely out of the
question..any man that would allow his wife to go through
that does not love or care for her at all..you probably know
what the surgery entails..

I had a vas 2 years ago....Yes, I have read all of the hype
regarding the "stats" tha men who have had
vas' have an 89% better chance of getting prostate cancer..
I don't believe it personally, How can they claim that when
they aren't sure what causes prostate cancer..I am sure it is
a mixture of many things: nutrition, lack of excersise, smoking,
the list goes on...

I only know from personal experience, and I feel that this is one of the

best decisions we have made. The surgery is around 25 minutes..under
local anesthesia. I have had no problems, I don't smoke, drink, I excersise
3 times a week, and eat 6 small meals a day(one cheat day a week) so I am
sure my chances are better than others..
Suggestions:  Look into no-scalpel vasectomy, make sure you have a
couch, chair (whatever) ready with magazines, remote, load the VCR..
take care of you man, after this..the less movement he has the better..
A couple days prior by some frozen bags of baby peas...FREEZE them
when he gets home use these instead of ice packs the contour better to the
curves of the genitals...Have him take it easy for 2 days..I had my surgery
planned
for a Friday so I had the whole weekend to recover, I was back to work Mon..
walking easy, but fine...
Not sure if this helps at all...If you need anything else please email me
direct
msapos@...

Good luck with the decision you make..

Michael Sapos










At 09:41 AM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote:
>From: "Waybourn, Phaedra" <Phaedra_Waybourn@...>
>
>My boyfriend and I are considering permanent birth control.
>We are tired of using condoms and are not always consistent
>with them.  I've tried The Pill and had terrible side effects (mood swings
>like you wouldn't believe, chronic fatigue and complete loss of libido).
>I'm not interested in an IUD or any of the other hormonal choices such
>as Norplant or Depo-Provera because I responded so poorly to the pill.
>My boyfriend initially volunteered to have a vasectomy because he
>had insurance and I didn't.  Upon doing so research however he found
>there was a link between vasectomies and an increase in prostate cancer.
>This link is only a correlation at this stage and we haven't found any
>articles with hard evidence for this.  He felt uncomfortable with the
>idea and decided against it.  I've gotten health insurance since then
>and am considering a tubal ligation.  I have an appointment to discuss
>it with my OB-GYN in March.  Upon doing research, however, I too am
>becoming uncomfortable with the idea in light of women's problems with
>PTS.  Now we don't know what we are going to do.  All the options seem
>to have real risky side effects.  I know people who have had both procedures
>and come out fine with no complaints, but I'm worried that my boyfriend or I
>would be one of the unlucky ones.  I don't suppose anyone has any
>statistics on how often men and women have difficulty with these procedures?
>>From what I've read these problems are not recognized by the medical
>community
>and so no accurate stats would be available.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Dear Newbie,

I think your boyfriend and you should re-consider vasectomy.  The correlation of
prostate cancer and vasectomy has been shown to be flawed by evidance-based
medicine.  Yes, there is a correlation, males have vasectomy, males have
prostate cancer.  The only good work shows that the percentage of males who have
had vasectomy and develop prostate cancer is less than the percentage of
non-vasectomies males.  What has appeared to skewed the numbers in many of the
studies is that vasectomised males often have earler detection than
non-vasectomised males and many non-vasectomised males prostate cancer goes
totally undiagnosed.

There is always problems with BTL's being intra-abdomanal surgery, and many
woman experience heaver periods that become problmatic requiring hysterectomy.

Vasectomised RN in NYS

"Waybourn, Phaedra" wrote:

> From: "Waybourn, Phaedra" <Phaedra_Waybourn@...>
>
> My boyfriend and I are considering permanent birth control.
> We are tired of using condoms and are not always consistent
> with them.  I've tried The Pill and had terrible side effects (mood swings
> like you wouldn't believe, chronic fatigue and complete loss of libido).
> I'm not interested in an IUD or any of the other hormonal choices such
> as Norplant or Depo-Provera because I responded so poorly to the pill.
> My boyfriend initially volunteered to have a vasectomy because he
> had insurance and I didn't.  Upon doing so research however he found
> there was a link between vasectomies and an increase in prostate cancer.
> This link is only a correlation at this stage and we haven't found any
> articles with hard evidence for this.  He felt uncomfortable with the
> idea and decided against it.  I've gotten health insurance since then
> and am considering a tubal ligation.  I have an appointment to discuss
> it with my OB-GYN in March.  Upon doing research, however, I too am
> becoming uncomfortable with the idea in light of women's problems with
> PTS.  Now we don't know what we are going to do.  All the options seem
> to have real risky side effects.  I know people who have had both procedures
> and come out fine with no complaints, but I'm worried that my boyfriend or I
> would be one of the unlucky ones.  I don't suppose anyone has any
> statistics on how often men and women have difficulty with these procedures?
> >From what I've read these problems are not recognized by the medical
> community
> and so no accurate stats would be available.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

In a message dated 1/27/1999 12:47:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wyzguy@... writes:

<< Hi - You seem to be on the right track. There are some sights go to
  www.dogpile.com andyou'll find some good styff.
  My advice to you and your boyfriend is that you shouln't mess with
  mother nature. Your body parts are there for a reason, once you start
  cut them or removing them, the body doen't work the same, ever. You'll
  just have to find a way to comprimise on contraception, because it is
  not woprth the pain and suffering you could end up going through if
  you happen to be the 1 out of 1000. I am and it could be you, do you
  really want to find out?
  Regards, Dave
  >  >>
Dave-
Could you please fill me in on the side effects you suffer.  My husband is
planning on having a vasectomy in a few months.  We decided against a tubal
because of the risks of PTLS.  You don't hear much on post vasectomy problems.
In fact, we were under the impression that there really were none.  Thanks for
your time.
Tammy&Jeremy

Hi - You seem to be on the right track. There are some sights go to
www.dogpile.com andyou'll find some good styff.
My advice to you and your boyfriend is that you shouln't mess with
mother nature. Your body parts are there for a reason, once you start
cut them or removing them, the body doen't work the same, ever. You'll
just have to find a way to comprimise on contraception, because it is
not woprth the pain and suffering you could end up going through if
you happen to be the 1 out of 1000. I am and it could be you, do you
really want to find out?
Regards, Dave
>

My boyfriend and I are considering permanent birth control.
We are tired of using condoms and are not always consistent
with them.  I've tried The Pill and had terrible side effects (mood swings
like you wouldn't believe, chronic fatigue and complete loss of libido).
I'm not interested in an IUD or any of the other hormonal choices such
as Norplant or Depo-Provera because I responded so poorly to the pill.
My boyfriend initially volunteered to have a vasectomy because he
had insurance and I didn't.  Upon doing so research however he found
there was a link between vasectomies and an increase in prostate cancer.
This link is only a correlation at this stage and we haven't found any
articles with hard evidence for this.  He felt uncomfortable with the
idea and decided against it.  I've gotten health insurance since then
and am considering a tubal ligation.  I have an appointment to discuss
it with my OB-GYN in March.  Upon doing research, however, I too am
becoming uncomfortable with the idea in light of women's problems with
PTS.  Now we don't know what we are going to do.  All the options seem
to have real risky side effects.  I know people who have had both procedures
and come out fine with no complaints, but I'm worried that my boyfriend or I
would be one of the unlucky ones.  I don't suppose anyone has any
statistics on how often men and women have difficulty with these procedures?
From what I've read these problems are not recognized by the medical
community
and so no accurate stats would be available.

I'd like to welcome all that is currently on this list.  The list is not very
active considering the number of subscribers, probably due to the fact that men
don't want to publicly talk about what happened.

Men  are told that there are no side effects and the truth is many men
experience bad side effects after a vasectomy, including lasting pain and
discomfort.

This is unacceptable that men are not warned before hand that this can happen.

Is anyone as outraged as I am?

There is a "sister" group to this vasectomy list. It's the post-tubal coalition
of women.  One of their goals is to have some laws changed, namely informed
consent laws which would warn of these possible side effects.

There is also talk of a "class action" law suit that would benifit women and men
who have had these surgeries with out full informed consent.

In the end, these actions  may not help us with our health condition, but will
help our sons and daughters from having done to them what has been done to us.

Post tubal woman are organized and ready to move forward on this issue and the
planed action for change.  The group has asked for and has gain the support of
NOW, (National Organization of Women).  Although this is a primarly a "woman's"
orgainzation, there are many men members, and NOW is not opposed to including
men who have had vasectomies with this fight for change.

In order for the men to be included though they (you) will have to talk about
your experinces.

What did the doctor tell you about the vasectomy?

What kind of doctor did the surgery?

Was any written information given to you about the surgery, and who authored or
published that information?

What happened after your vasectomy?  What did the doctor tell you?  What did
other doctors tell you?

What is you state of health now?

How has this happening to you affected your mental state of mind, and your
personal life?

Would you like to see informed consent laws changed?

Once an open dialoge begins, then the men can also get organized with this fight
for change and justis.

This is too serious to keep quiet about!

Here's my "newbie" introduction requested when I signed up.

For any interested doctors:  I am a 38 year old white male, 5'10" 170#
with controlled hypertension (Tenormin 5mg per day) and mild asthma.  I
am moderately active and exercise regularly.

For everybody:

I am the father of one son.  He was the result of a second pregnancy.
The first one ended in a miscarriage (well, okay, it was termed a
spontaneous abortion by you docs).  My wife and I tried for many years
after his birth to have another baby.  She at last became pregnant, but
lost that one too.

After her recovery, my son turned 10 years old, and we decided we were
both too old and too far along with our careers to have another baby to
contend with in the house.  We'd altered our lifestyle, given away the
crib, the clothes, etc., etc.

As my wife is some 30 lbs overweight, I decided when the subject of
permanent birth control was discussed between us that I'd be the one to
have it done, because I felt the risks of complications were too great
for her.  I was also influenced by the fact that both my brothers had a
vasectomy and reported no long term complications, though my youngest
brother did develop a very nasy staph infection right after the
procedure.

I had the consultation, and the procedure was done in about 20 minutes
with no undue pain (well, okay--"discomfort" as you docs like to call
those sensations) afterward.  I was given the "all clear" about six
weeks later.

About four months after the procedure, I developed a mild case of
epididymitis.  Because my health insurance was handled through an HMO, I
was forced to go and see my primary care physician.  He did a cursory
exam, said he could find nothing out of the ordinary.  He then stated
that the HMO would not pay for me to see the urologist again until six
months had elapsed from the date of the initial procedure.  Though his
findings were negative, he did prescribe a anti-inflammatory which I
dutifully took all of.

Six months after the procedure, I was still experiencing discomfort and
had developed what I learned later were two sperm granulomas, one on
each side of the scrotum, the right one was the size and consistency of
a "baby carrot" for lack of a better description.  Neither of these were
painful, just felt a bit odd to me.

I again went back to my primary care physician, this time I did receive
a referral to the urologist.

Three weeks later, I saw the urologist and received a very brief exam.
(We're talking a slight brush on one side of the scrotum).   He too
stated there was nothing out of the ordinary that he could detect.  I
asked about the lumps?  "What lumps?" he asked.  I told him there were
two lumps in the scrotum.  He asked me to slip my pants down again and
poked briefly, found the one on the right side and said "Oh, well,
that...well, you're just being too impatient, that's all."

Now prior to this time, I did some exploring and found that the main
discomfort I am experiencing is emanating from the epididymis of the
left testicle, which had a very small pea-sized granuloma.

I questioned the doctor on the discomfort I was experiencing in the left
testicle (you have to understand that I was trying to talk to him while
he was busily scribbling in my file) when he suddenly snapped at me that
I "had to expect SOME congestion after the procedure!"

I felt humiliated by his irritation, and finished adjusting my clothing,
growing angrier by the second too.

At that time, he held out a prescription for what I assumed was another
anti-inflammatory.  By now I was extremely angry and I laid it down on
the counter and said "as there is nothing wrong, I certainly don't need
that!"

He turned and stalked out and I haven't seen the man since.

All this was three years ago.  Since then, the granuloma on the left
side has disappeared.  The one on the right has shrunk considerably, it
is a small, painless mass of tissue.

I have episodes of acute pain from mainly the left testicle, though
twice now the right testicle has gotten into the act.

My main problem is with the left testicle.  It aches, with varying
intensity, night and day.  I take aspirin for the discomfort, having
found that plain, regular aspirin is the most effective pain reliever.
The pain increases AFTER physical activity that involves running, though
there are a few jabs during.  The pain is distracting during
intercourse, and there have been a few times when I've given up and
faked orgasm because the pain was strong enough to interfere with
reaching climax.

I have stopped discussing the situation with my wife as she gets very
upset over it and I don't feel there is anything to be gained by making
her feel bad.

So...

Does anyone have any advice?  My situation is further complicated now
because I've since purchased my own business and currently don't have
health insurance.

To be honest...I am currently exploring the idea of having the left
testicle removed.  I know that sounds really weird!  And, perhaps it is
a bad idea.  For those of you who might be experiencing the same thing,
maybe it doesn't sound like such a bad idea to you.

From what I've read, one testicle can do the job that both were doing,
and I wouldn't be affected in any way sexually.

But, I don't have the funds for any major procedure, and I've been
thinking that via the 'Net, I might come across someone who would be
qualified to remove the testicle at a minimal cost.

Okay...so there's my intro, complete with all details and one possible
solution that I've thought of.  Anyone out there have any ideas or
comments?

Eric

I had a vasectomy in January.  Since then I have had chronic pain in my
nuts, pain where the tube is end capped upon ejaculation, burning pain
at the tip of my penis and general discomfort in my pelvic region.  It
comes and goes, flares up and dies down, seems associated with sex.  Is
this familiar?

My dick doctor doesn't seem to have a clue what it could be.  My g.p.
say I have chronic pain and just have to live with it.

Can you point me to any references that discuss this, solutions?

Help, Stephen

kivi sharma wrote:

> From: "kivi sharma" <kivish@...>
>
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