I'm trying to find a firewall, or maybe a fence, that will keep a
large fuzzy virus away from my computer. The virus looks like a big
kitten, eats cat food and poops in kitty litter. Right now though it
is lying on my desk and trying to bite my fingers. At other times it
has pushed the mouse off of the desk and walked across the keyboard to
erase lines of text, or discover what various function keys and key
combinations do when they are pressed by four feet.
The virus seems to be getting more computer savvy because it has
apparently discovered that the cursor isn't a flying bug that can be
caught and eaten. There are inactive periods when the virus falls
asleep. Oops, it waked up! End of message &*%


--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, wdsmith <dsmith314@...> wrote:
>
> Right now, I'm working on a design for an all-range, fire and forget,
> lawyer-seeking missile.
> Still ironing out some bugs.  It keeps being distracted by cattle
> feedlots and septic tanks.
>
>
>
> Pete B. wrote:
> >
> > Whose Working on What?
> >
> > We're supposed to hibernate in the Winter! Anyone have a design or
> > building project going?
> >
> > Cathy & I spent  3 days watching our grandchildren in CT and then I
> > spent a 3 day weekend in the Wilds of Colebrook, NH. I helped a
friend
> > with some finish work on his log cabin.
> >
> > My hobby work is on the back burner until I get thru my Reunion
> > coordination. All the planning is done. I have to finish up with the
> > paperwork.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
>

Whose Working on What?

We're supposed to hibernate in the Winter! Anyone have a design or building project going?

Cathy & I spent  3 days watching our grandchildren in CT and then I spent a 3 day weekend in the Wilds of Colebrook, NH. I helped a friend with some finish work on his log cabin.

My hobby work is on the back burner until I get thru my Reunion coordination. All the planning is done. I have to finish up with the paperwork.

Pete

Hi Dan,

Sailing, building or re-building? Hope it's sailing!

If I were younger I could get hooked on sailing. Several of my high school classmates are sailors. One in particular sails with the big boys (Dennis Connors). He also races R/C model sailboats for fun. Sandy is presently the Commissioner of The California Boating and Waterways Commission. We visited with him in '02 in San Diego where he is quite active in the community. The following year we visited  a classmate in Castine, ME. He and his wife took us out sailing on Penobscot Bay. It was quite a treat for my wife, her 1st time sailing.

Enjoy yourself at what ever your activities may be.

Pete

--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Dan Noyes <danoyes1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys
> I've bee right out straight on full size sailboats...no pop popin for me untill after the 4th of july or so :(
> Dan
>
> "Pete B." georgeyyy@... wrote:
> Whose Working on What?
> We're supposed to hibernate in the Winter! Anyone have a design or building project going?
> Cathy & I spent 3 days watching our grandchildren in CT and then I spent a 3 day weekend in the Wilds of Colebrook, NH. I helped a friend with some finish work on his log cabin.
> My hobby work is on the back burner until I get thru my Reunion coordination. All the planning is done. I have to finish up with the paperwork.
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank McNeill" <frankmcneilll@...>

> I'm trying to find a firewall, or maybe a fence, that will keep a
> large fuzzy virus away from my computer.

I've got one of those viruses.
Multi-tasking, ie walks on the keyboard, arches its back in front of the
screen and stuffs its tail up my nose all at the same time.

Also poops in my bathroom, which is why it's now making plaintive Error
Messages at me from outside the window by my PC.

The Entry Port will be unlocked at breakfast time.
You've got a fur coat on, so go chase some voles to pass the time.

David





E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.186)
Database version: 5.07430
http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/

All of the businesses and web sites owned by members of the group have
been featured, so the home page of Nori Muster's Steamboats web site
is being used for the second or third time. Go to
<http://steamboats.com/> if you haven't visited this one for a while.

old Frank

Hi Frank,

Here's another site that you might want to add. You have it listed in LINKS. It's a website that completely documents the building of a side wheel launch. It is an ambitious undertaking that is just about completed. Ken has varied mechanical interests as you'll see if you visit the site.

http://www.mysidewheeler.com/

Ken Brockway lives in Cohoes, NY (Albany area). He and I have become friends through the Internet and our interest in steamboats. He plans to have his boat ready for the Waterford, NY Steam Regatta and the Steamboat Celebration at the Clermont Site. Check out both promos on Ken's site.

Waterford (also the Albany area) is where Randy Decker is building the 90" model of the North River Steamboat. The Model will end up on permanent display at the Clermont Site. I plan on visiting Randy and his boat. Hopefully Ken will be able to join me.

Pete
--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
>
> All of the businesses and web sites owned by members of the group have
> been featured, so the home page of Nori Muster's Steamboats web site
> is being used for the second or third time. Go to
> <http://steamboats.com/> if you haven't visited this one for a while.
>
> old Frank
>

Hi All,

Go to <http://www.mysidewheeler.com/> for Ken Brockway's home page.
I used Ken's picture for the home page to show you what a 63 year old
kid should look like.

Best wishes, Frank

Dan,

I enjoyed looking thru your Dory pop-pop album. Nice looking boats. In
one photo it looks like your gunwhale is under water. Did you stay
upright?

Lots of sailing on the Hudson. One of your boats would fit right in.

Regards,

Pete

The World's largest Steamboat Meet on Lake Winnepesaukee, NH.

This year's date:

Steamboats in New Hampshire

On a recent trip to New Hampshire I stumbled upon the Lee's Mills Steamboat Meet in Moultonborough, NH. Quick Carlson from Maryland informed me about what was going on. Tim Lynch took me aboard "Flying Cloud" for a spin around Lake Winnipesaukee. Location: United States of America / New Hampshire / Moultonborough Producer: keithhopkin

Enjoy!

- Travelistic: Video For Travelers

Hi Frank, Dave & all,

After your comments on keyboard problems etc. I couldn't pass up the changing of the home page picture.

Enjoy!

Pete
--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to find a firewall, or maybe a fence, that will keep a
> large fuzzy virus away from my computer. The virus looks like a big
> kitten, eats cat food and poops in kitty litter. Right now though it
> is lying on my desk and trying to bite my fingers. At other times it
> has pushed the mouse off of the desk and walked across the keyboard to
> erase lines of text, or discover what various function keys and key
> combinations do when they are pressed by four feet.
> The virus seems to be getting more computer savvy because it has
> apparently discovered that the cursor isn't a flying bug that can be
> caught and eaten. There are inactive periods when the virus falls
> asleep. Oops, it waked up! End of message &*%
>
>
> --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, wdsmith dsmith314@ wrote:
> >
> > Right now, I'm working on a design for an all-range, fire and forget,
> > lawyer-seeking missile.
> > Still ironing out some bugs. It keeps being distracted by cattle
> > feedlots and septic tanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Pete B. wrote:
> > >
> > > Whose Working on What?
> > >
> > > We're supposed to hibernate in the Winter! Anyone have a design or
> > > building project going?
> > >
> > > Cathy & I spent 3 days watching our grandchildren in CT and then I
> > > spent a 3 day weekend in the Wilds of Colebrook, NH. I helped a
> friend
> > > with some finish work on his log cabin.
> > >
> > > My hobby work is on the back burner until I get thru my Reunion
> > > coordination. All the planning is done. I have to finish up with the
> > > paperwork.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi Pete and All,

Cute picture of the sleeping cat. My only camera is built into an
iMac, so I had to use a mirror to get this picture of my computer
virus. You can probably tell that the virus has one foot on the
keyboard, is wearing a flea collar, and probably wonders what that old
person is up to now.

Best wishes to all, Frank


--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi Frank, Dave & all,
>
> After your comments on keyboard problems etc. I couldn't pass up the
> changing of the home page picture.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Pete
> --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
> <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm trying to find a firewall, or maybe a fence, that will keep a
> > large fuzzy virus away from my computer. The virus looks like a big
> > kitten, eats cat food and poops in kitty litter. Right now though it
> > is lying on my desk and trying to bite my fingers. At other times it
> > has pushed the mouse off of the desk and walked across the keyboard to
> > erase lines of text, or discover what various function keys and key
> > combinations do when they are pressed by four feet.
> > The virus seems to be getting more computer savvy because it has
> > apparently discovered that the cursor isn't a flying bug that can be
> > caught and eaten. There are inactive periods when the virus falls
> > asleep. Oops, it waked up! End of message &*%
> >
> >
> > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, wdsmith dsmith314@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Right now, I'm working on a design for an all-range, fire and
> forget,
> > > lawyer-seeking missile.
> > > Still ironing out some bugs. It keeps being distracted by cattle
> > > feedlots and septic tanks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pete B. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Whose Working on What?
> > > >
> > > > We're supposed to hibernate in the Winter! Anyone have a design or
> > > > building project going?
> > > >
> > > > Cathy & I spent 3 days watching our grandchildren in CT and then I
> > > > spent a 3 day weekend in the Wilds of Colebrook, NH. I helped a
> > friend
> > > > with some finish work on his log cabin.
> > > >
> > > > My hobby work is on the back burner until I get thru my Reunion
> > > > coordination. All the planning is done. I have to finish up with
> the
> > > > paperwork.
> > > >
> > > > Pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi Every body,

I haven't find a conversation concerning this boat and I was wondering
if Franck can tell us more about the boat (length, weight, size of the
pop-pop boat).

I am actually looking at the construction of my own radio controlled
pop-pop boat. I have find an interesting plan of a boat which is
originally a scull boat. The length is around 16" and the weight will
be around a pound I think. I prefer to use a two exhaust pipe pop-pop.

If some of you have some suggestion, they are welcome ...

Xavier

The following is infomation on Eddy's pop-pop boat. The hull is a spare mloded hull from the Gaupner Pollux tug kit. Hope this helps. Please post info on the progress of your project. Good luck.

Pete

Eddy's E-mail address: eddy@...

Graupner Pollux Freelance Design Tug 1:100 Scale Kit for Radio Control

This model is a freelance design of one of those tugs which can be found in any port. Despite her small dimensions (1:100th scale) Pollux is capable of tugging larger model ships and provides a most realistic impression.

Adequate space is available inside the hull for the accommodation of R/C equipment having normal dimensions; so there's no need for miniaturization of parts. Thanks to its moulded hull and extruded superstructures the model can be easily and quickly assembled.

Pack contents:
Quickbuild plan with R/C installation, illustrated building instructions in Dutch, English, French and German. Moulded hull, superstructures, steering house with funnel, bridge and mast of ABS plastic. Die-cut wood parts, rudder shaft, decals miscellaneous plastic parts.

RC functions:
Forward - stop - backwards
Infinitely variable speed control

Specification:
Length: 358 mm
Width: 114 mm
Draught: 40 mm
All up Weight: 620 g
Displacement (less R/C gear): 200 g
Scale: 1:100


--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Xavier LUCAS" <lucas.xav@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Every body,
>
> I haven't find a conversation concerning this boat and I was wondering
> if Franck can tell us more about the boat (length, weight, size of the
> pop-pop boat).
>
> I am actually looking at the construction of my own radio controlled
> pop-pop boat. I have find an interesting plan of a boat which is
> originally a scull boat. The length is around 16" and the weight will
> be around a pound I think. I prefer to use a two exhaust pipe pop-pop.
>
> If some of you have some suggestion, they are welcome ...
>
> Xavier
>

Hi all
about what I'm working on... bringing a boat to the wooden boat show
in Mystic Seaport Coneticut. the steam ship Sabino will be open for
tours and the rare engine shed will be open to the public. I have
posted photos of the boat I'm bringing (Ipswich Bay 18)in pop pop dory
album.
  Joel stoped by last night to pick up the Hammer Head pop pop engine
for some modifications, he wants to put a right algle in the pulse
pipe just after the boiler chamber.

Pete, I did not go over, but I did have the sail touching the
water.have in the past,so have friends, but the little skiff is a
blast to sail.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com


...--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B."
<georgeyyy@...> wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> I enjoyed looking thru your Dory pop-pop album. Nice looking boats.
In
> one photo it looks like your gunwhale is under water. Did you stay
> upright?
>
> Lots of sailing on the Hudson. One of your boats would fit right in.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pete
>

Hi All,

Today's home page picture shows stuff that can be assembled  from twin
wall plastic sheets .375 inches thick, using materials, tools, etc.
sold by the Kelvin Company at <http://www.kelvin.com/>. Some of the
members of a discussion group at
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rcmugi/> use similar, but much thinner,
twin wall plastic sheets for the construction of radio controlled
model airplanes, so it seems reasonable to assume that twin wall
plastic sheets could also be used to build pop-pop boats.

ttfn, Frank

Hi Dan,

I like your boats! I wish that I were in a position  to purchase one and sail th Hudson. It looks like it would trailer well.

I didn't know much about the Sabino so I Googled. It's apparently the last of the coal fired steamboats, commercial that is. A friend, Carl Kreigeskotte still uses coal on his 23' launch "Saucy".

Here's a link that gives the history of the S.S. Sabino: http://www.nps.gov/maritime/nhl/sabino.htm

By the way Mystic is a nice area. We visited last year with our son's family. The Aquarium was a hit. Another enjoyable place to visit is Essex, CT. They have both a Steam Locamotive and steamboat offering rides.

Enjoy,

Pete
--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "danoyes1" <danoyes1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all
> about what I'm working on... bringing a boat to the wooden boat show
> in Mystic Seaport Coneticut. the steam ship Sabino will be open for
> tours and the rare engine shed will be open to the public. I have
> posted photos of the boat I'm bringing (Ipswich Bay 18)in pop pop dory
> album.
> Joel stoped by last night to pick up the Hammer Head pop pop engine
> for some modifications, he wants to put a right algle in the pulse
> pipe just after the boiler chamber.
>
> Pete, I did not go over, but I did have the sail touching the
> water.have in the past,so have friends, but the little skiff is a
> blast to sail.
> Dan
> http://dansdories.googlepages.com
>
>
> ...--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B."
> georgeyyy@ wrote:
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > I enjoyed looking thru your Dory pop-pop album. Nice looking boats.
> In
> > one photo it looks like your gunwhale is under water. Did you stay
> > upright?
> >
> > Lots of sailing on the Hudson. One of your boats would fit right in.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pete
> >
>

Hi All,

Today's picture shows the home page of a small company that sells kits
for battery powered R/C model airplanes made of extruded, twin wall
polypropylene. Go to <http://www.mugi.co.uk/> for the real home page.

Best wishes, old Frank

Hi All,

Today's picture shows two models built mostly of twin wall corrugated
plastic. One is a battery powered delta wing model plane equipped for
radio control and the other is partially assembled hydroplane boat.

old Frank

Hi all
well the wooden boat show was a real treat. quite a bit of interest
in the sailing dory I brought, and a possible magazine article, good
stuff.
I was breathing the fragrant scent of coal smoak all weekend as we
were docked right across from Sabino. We made it over just in time
to catch the special Sabino engine room tour, glistening oiled metal
every where, moving and steaming and coal clattering into the fire
box.
Dan

--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> I like your boats! I wish that I were in a position  to purchase
one and
> sail th Hudson. It looks like it would trailer well.
>
> I didn't know much about the Sabino so I Googled. It's apparently
the
> last of the coal fired steamboats, commercial that is. A friend,
Carl
> Kreigeskotte still uses coal on his 23' launch "Saucy".
>
> Here's a link that gives the history of the S.S. Sabino:
> http://www.nps.gov/maritime/nhl/sabino.htm
> <http://www.nps.gov/maritime/nhl/sabino.htm>
>
> By the way Mystic is a nice area. We visited last year with our
son's
> family. The Aquarium was a hit. Another enjoyable place to visit is
> Essex, CT. They have both a Steam Locamotive and steamboat offering
> rides.
>
> Enjoy,
>
> Pete
> --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "danoyes1" <danoyes1@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all
> > about what I'm working on... bringing a boat to the wooden boat
show
> > in Mystic Seaport Coneticut. the steam ship Sabino will be open
for
> > tours and the rare engine shed will be open to the public. I have
> > posted photos of the boat I'm bringing (Ipswich Bay 18)in pop
pop dory
> > album.
> > Joel stoped by last night to pick up the Hammer Head pop pop
engine
> > for some modifications, he wants to put a right algle in the
pulse
> > pipe just after the boiler chamber.
> >
> > Pete, I did not go over, but I did have the sail touching the
> > water.have in the past,so have friends, but the little skiff is a
> > blast to sail.
> > Dan
> > http://dansdories.googlepages.com
> >
> >
> > ...--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B."
> > georgeyyy@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Dan,
> > >
> > > I enjoyed looking thru your Dory pop-pop album. Nice looking
boats.
> > In
> > > one photo it looks like your gunwhale is under water. Did you
stay
> > > upright?
> > >
> > > Lots of sailing on the Hudson. One of your boats would fit
right in.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> >
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pop-pop-steamboats
group.

   File        : /Waterford2007.pdf
   Uploaded by : northriver07 <georgeyyy@...>
   Description : PIX taken at the Waterford, NY Steamboat Meet 6.30.07

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats/files/Waterford2007.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

northriver07 <georgeyyy@...>

I've been invited to join the Rumseian Group on "The Experiment" at the Clermont Site Steamboat Meet on the Hudson River.

The group is from Shepherdstown, WV. Their boat is a 2/3 scale replica of James Rumsey's boat from 1787. It is propelled by drawing water in from a bow tube and expelling water & steam from a stern tube. Sound familar? Check out their site. http://www.jamesrumsey.org/

I've been acting as their liason with the town of Saugerties, NY (Launch site) and The Clermont Historic Site. If you live in the Northeast join us on August 18th & 19th to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the first"successful" steamboat.

Pete

PS: Questions drop me a line

Hi Frank,

Thanks for putting up the sketch of the EXPERIMENT. I replaced it with a photo of the replica. I thought it quite fitting.

I learned just this morning that my ride on the "EXPERIMENT" will be its last cruise. It will be retired when the Rumseians return to Shepherdstown. It will most likely go on static display in the Shepherds town area

A point of interest: The boat is approximately 30' long. The steam engine that drives the waterjet pump is rated a 1 HP.

Pete

Need Help!

Do any of our members know anything about this "whimsical" model of the Clermont? I found it on E-bay and decided to buy it. The seller was asking $20, I got it for $15. It is said that it was owned by an 87 year old collector who has had it for "years".

The reason I bought it is two fold. The obvious is that I'm interested in the North River (Clermont) steamboat. THe second is that its size, 14"L x 13"H x 4" W, is the approximate proportion of the Pop-Pop North River  Steamboat that I am working on. In that effort it's a hands on piece for a great reference.

Any new projects?

Pete

Our Home Page photo is of the "FIREFLY" borrowed from Richard Jenkin's Photo Folder.

If you have a project under way please consider updating our group on your progress. It's to everyone's benefit to share ideas.

I have plans to get back to work on my copper pop-pop at the end of August after other activities slow down.

Hope to hear from some of you!

Pete

No Pete, we are not all sleeping. See hereafter a cut and paste of today's report about the

Experimental proof (one more !) of the dissymmetry of a propulsion by reciprocating waterjet.

Purpose of the experiment: to show that sucking water on the bow of a ship has a negligible impact; though a jet backward propels.

Principle of the foresee assembly:

A symmetrical hull (according to transverse and longitudinal axis) to avoid endless discussions.

Electric pump located in the middle of a pipe of ID « d ».

Internal diameter of the cross-over equal to more than 2xd.

Thus, on one hand the pressure drops upstream and downstream will be nearly unchanged. And on the other hand, the speeds inside the cross-over will be very low and the resulting forces being opposed they will cancel each other.

Measurement of the boat velocity in both cases: sucking and delivering.

Practical results:

Measurement of the boat velocity when propelled by jet. Result: 72mm/s.

Measurement of the boat velocity during sucking. Result not measurable. Velocity lower than 1mm/min.

Knowing that the thrust evolves as the square of the velocity, one can calculate the ratio between pushing and pulling forces. The pulling force (when sucking) is roughly 20 millions times weaker than the pushing one.

Conclusion : this experiment confirms the theory. Sucking ahead has a negligible effect, and the related assumptions used in other documents are justified.

For more details see www.eclecticspace.net .  ...when Loïc have found the time to do the job. 

Welcome Ken Tait Sr. and D.Walker,

I would encourage you to look through the"PHOTOS", "FILE" and "LINKS" sections. There's a wealth of information on the little Pop-Pop boats out there. It runs the gammit from the basics of design to scientific reseach on why the pulse engines work the way they do.

If you have questions post them or contact individuals directly. The main thing is to ask.

Let us know what your interests are. If you read through the messages you can find out bits and pieces about some of us.

Again Welcome,

Pete

Not much activity on the forum. Vacation time?

After examination of the data of the best engines I know I thought it
could be possible to build a very big engine with a good probability
to get interesting results. I looked in my mess and found the
suitable pipe: a curtain rod… which after my works will never hold a
curtain again. Its inner diameter is 23,5mm. Though I have not the
appropriate tools for a pipe of such a large diameter I succeeded
roughly to bend it as expected. And I'm glad to say that it worked
fine at the first attempt (and followers).
Frequency: 2Hz.
Mean thrust: 133 mN.
These results are quite consistent with the ones I expected by
extrapolation of the data of smaller engines.
However, one must keep in mind the very bad efficiency. There is no
possible industrial application. I built and tested this engine for
the fun, and just to check that the theory applies. And it does.
Se the photo album. The green lighter set on the pipe is just there
to indicate the scale.
Jean-Yves

Jean-Yves,

THANKS! Interesting stuff. Although I don't have anywhere near the knowledge that you have gained through your research I do appreciate your post. Hopefully I'll be able to absorb some of the information that you share.

This past weekend I spent time with the Rumseian Group and their Steamboat "THE EXPERIMENT" at the CLermont Historic Site's Steamboat Celebration. Unfortunately they were unable to steam the Hudson River on Saturday the 18th. We had winds of 20 MPH and strong river currents. They did get out for a bit on the 19th. I watched from shore as I had prior commitments for most of the day. The steam engine runs a pump that sucks in water through the keel on the intake stroke and expels water (and steam) on the exhaust stroke. It  works very much like the pop-pops. You can see each "pulse" of water from the boat's stern in the form of a slight turbulence and bubbles.

In closing I have to say that the 8 fellows from West Virginia are some of the nicest people that I have had the good fortune of working with. They have asked me to work on their next project with them. With the power of technology it is surely doable. I now have to find out just what their project entails. When it comes to building the hardware it's approximately a 7 hour drive to WV.

More later...

Pete

--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jean-Yves Renaud" <boite.de.j-y@...> wrote:
>
> Not much activity on the forum. Vacation time?
>
> After examination of the data of the best engines I know I thought it
> could be possible to build a very big engine with a good probability
> to get interesting results. I looked in my mess and found the
> suitable pipe: a curtain rod? which after my works will never hold a
> curtain again. Its inner diameter is 23,5mm. Though I have not the
> appropriate tools for a pipe of such a large diameter I succeeded
> roughly to bend it as expected. And I'm glad to say that it worked
> fine at the first attempt (and followers).
> Frequency: 2Hz.
> Mean thrust: 133 mN.
> These results are quite consistent with the ones I expected by
> extrapolation of the data of smaller engines.
> However, one must keep in mind the very bad efficiency. There is no
> possible industrial application. I built and tested this engine for
> the fun, and just to check that the theory applies. And it does.
> Se the photo album. The green lighter set on the pipe is just there
> to indicate the scale.
> Jean-Yves
>

Hi Andrew,

You wrote:

Hi,
I am in my 40's father of eleven children and interested in building a
full size pop pop boat. well at lest a one man boat.

A full size Pop-Pop may not be doable. I suggest that you contact member Jean-Yves who has done a lot of technical research and experimentation with Pop-Pop's and Dan Noyes who has built a large version of a Pop-Pop. They have both contributed photos and info on their respective work.

Check ou the Rumseian Photo folder. He designed and built a steam powered "jet" boat. Interstingly Ben Franklin had designed a very similar "jet" boat using a Well pump to siphon and expel the water to move his boat forward. I don't know if he ever followed through like Rumsey did.

I was on a 1/2 scale replica of the Rumsey boat this past weekend at the Clermont Historic Site on the Hudson River.

Welcome to our group!

Pete

Hi Andrew,

You are not the first to come with the project to propel a real size boat by a pop-pop (or putt-putt) engine. This is interesting in the principle, but I'm afraid you will be disappointed. We have to warn you about many "negative" aspects. If we don't do it now, you will be much more disappointed later, after spending time and money for nothing.

As many pop-pop enthusiasts I would have liked to sail on a boat propelled by a pop-pop engine. Though that was not my first goal, I started to study and build small engines (pipes of internal diameter approx 3mm) and progressively I increased the size. In August 2007 my biggest engine had a pipe diameter of 23.5mm, and I'm ready to believe that in theory there is no upper limit. However, for those who expect to propel a real size (small) boat, I would like to draw the attention on what follows: 

·          To deliver an acceptable thrust would require a gigantic pop-pop engine.  According to our today's knowledge it is evident that we cannot get the same thrust as with classic propulsion for less weight. If we extrapolate what we know, to get a thrust corresponding to the one delivered by a 4HP engine at a few knots would require a single pipe pop-pop engine with a pipe diameter of more than 100 m (> one hundred meters!). And its weight, including water, would be more than 15 000t (> fifteen thousand tons!). Though theoretically it could be lighter with multiple engines, I let you imagine for instance (for the same thrust) how to locate on the stern of the small boat 10 000 pipes of internal diameter 10mm.

·          Enormous amount of fuel.  The efficiency of a pop-pop engine is pathetic. It could increase with the size of the engine, but it is so minute on a toy (between 0.001% and 0.1%) that it cannot be "acceptable" on a real size boat. Even if some weight could be saved on the engine itself, think about the enormous amount of fuel (whatever it is) that the boat will have to carry.

Any of the two above mentioned reason should suffice to stop immediately the project. Nevertheless, if you don't trust these figures, we can list other reasons:

·          What about using raw water (worse would be sea water) inside the engine? When you know the water treatment and water quality that are required in a water/steam process...

·          What about reversing to maneuver?

·          What about burn out phenomenon?

·          Would you like being shaken? The pop-pop engine is reciprocating engine acting on a pulsed jet. Would you be happy to live on a boat that is shaking day and night?

...

Nevertheless, the pop-pop engine is fascinating. Hope you will enjoy it.

Jean-Yves