In a welcome note to Richard, I told him that I'm currently doing
hard time at my daughter's place as a house, dogs and cat sitter.
She left yesterday to take her youngest son Jordie, his cousin Josh,
and a carload of their stuff to Chicago, where the two lads will be
doing their own hard time as students at Illinois Institute of Art.
My own term of durance vile will probably last a week. Meanwhile I
have to use one of a cluster of wireless linked PCs in my daughter
house under really bad conditions, like a pit bull who thinks he's a
lap dog, and inability to access anything on the iMac in the
apartment 20 miles away, where I live. Some of my stuff was added to
the pop-pop-steamboats files and links sections without explaining
why they were put there. Please explore these sections, add anything
you would like to have there, and ask about any the stuff I put
there, links to companies that make refillable butane lighters for
instance, which were added because I believe butane fired candle
lighters could be combined with boilers of the coiled tubing type as
radio controllable steam engines. A lighter could provide enough
heat for a cluster of coils with ends that could provide thrust in
different directions that would be selected by miniature radio
controlled valves, as indicated in one of the jpegs in the files
section. Please check some of this stuff out and post questions,
comments, criticisms, etc., to keep the chatter going. Discussion
groups aren't much fun if there isn't any discussion.

best wishes, old Frank

----- Original Message -----

From: buzzsboatyard

To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:20 PM

Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Radio control pop-pop boats

Hi Chuck,

This is Buzz from Buzz's BoatYard. I posted a few minutes ago but I
don't see it anywhere now. You can certainly put r/c equipment in a
pop pop boat. I do it from time to time. If the other message I
replied to would show up, it would answer a lot of your questions.

I carry pop pop boats with very large engines in them.. and I have
installed r/c in the Titanic and in the Super Tug. I am also working
now on a wood pop pop powered shrimp boat which will have plenty of
room for r/c gear. As for the Stirling engine, yes.... I can find you
a lot of varieties of small ones that run off the heat of a cup of
coffee. The problem is, the small ones are very weak in power. They
develop enough power to turn the engine components, but I don't think
the small ones would be able to power much more. Feel free to ask me
any questions about poppop applications. You can view some of them
running in my pond if you go to the "movie theater" link on my
website. The website is at:

www.buzzboats.com

Thanks,

Buzz

.

Our twenty-third member is D.M. Moskva of Russia. His hobby is naval
history, including that of paddle steamers and ironclads, so he should
be able to help us with nitty gritty details, like what pop-pop models
of civil war era should look like. They will be too small to look like
static models and too large to look exactly like the miniature models
that war gamers use as markers, so discussions about the design of
semi-scale working models will probably require a maritime historian
to act as the referee.

Best wishes to all, old Frank

Oh, no  big deal.  It isn't much to look at right now. The boats are
fun.... but I'm really hooked one one of the r/c planes!   Seems like
the day flies by so fast I just don't have the time to do all the
things I'd like to.


--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
<frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry about this Buzz,
>
> but I zipped past the reference to the "cheaprc.com" you're
> working on. Please post a link to it in our links section when
> it's ready for prime time viewing. We already have a link to
> Buzz's BoatYard. If you enter thenes link as Cheaprc.com it
> should show up close to the one for the BoatYard. Thanks
> a bunch for coming on board because posts have suddenly
> shot up from almost Zilch to Zowie!!
>
> best wishes, old Frank
>
> --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "buzzsboatyard"
<buzzsboatyard@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Frank, et al.  I'm Buzz from Buzz's BoatYard and I can help you
> > find a lot of information on pop pop boats.  Chuck, you are quite
> > right about that huge pop pop boat. But, Frank is correct...  I have
> > had no problem installing r/c equipment in the Titanic I sell.... or
> > in the Super Tug. The tug is 10" LOA and features one of the largest
> > pop pop engines made today.  You won't set any speed records, but with
> > one of our new "super candles", you can get up to 30 minutes on one
> > candle. We've added ingredients to slow the burn, and they really work
> > well.  It is also very easy to build your own ships and use another
> > type of steam engine that will propel the boat.  I'm speaking of a
> > coil boiler "water recirculating" engine, which I also make. The coil
> > boilers are silent. I copied the engine design of the first ship ever
> > made by Sutcliffe Pressings in England. The coil boilers are made from
> > copper which I anneal and then bend into 4 or five coils. These
> > boilers include a long set of exhaust pipes, so you  can place them in
> > the best suitable location. While I do prefer the pop pop engine
> > because of the noise it makes, the coil boiler is guaranteed NEVER to
> > burn out unless you try to power it with an acetelene torch. <grin>
> > \
> > For those have never seen one in action, I invited you to visit my
> > website. Once on the site, look on your left side and click the "Movie
> > Theater" link. There are several videos of a very few of the boats I
> > stock and sell. I have at least a dozen more new types of pop pop
> > boats which I just brought through customs....and another shipment due
> > in from India on Monday.  I will try to get the pictures up quickly.
> > If you want to get more information on how the engine runs, click on
> > the bold links on the intro page on my site.  I have tons of
> > information to share, so if you have questions about these little
> > wonders...  feel free to ask me and I'll try my best to give you the
> > information you need.
> >
> > Frank...  this is a great idea!  I hope we can draw more people into
> > the group here who are interested in them or have questions. I'll post
> > some pictures as we go along.  Pop pop engines date back to the 1800's
> > .  I'd love to hear some project ideas. Right now I am building a wood
> > shrimp boat 10" long with a large pop pop engine in it. There is
> > plenty of room for R/C.  I can also help out with the r/c stuff as I
> > am trying to finish my "cheaprc.com" site now.  Here's the url to my
> > boat site. Feel free to leave feedback or ask questions. I can get pop
> > pop boats as small as 4"...  they are called "Mini-Pops".
> >
> > Buzz
> > Buzz's BoatYard
> >
> > www.buzzboats.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill
> > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Chuck,
> > >
> > > I will field that one because I think I know the
> > > answers.
> > > The late Peter R. Payne, mentioned in the pop-pop
> > > pages,
> > > is reported to have experimented with pop-pop boats
> > > large enough to ride in. There's an image of a patent
> > > with a diagram of the engine he probably used, a lot
> > > more complicated than the engines in little tin boats
> > > though. Dustin McMillian, owner of Buzz's Boatyard,
> > > reported that he built a boat with the kind of RC
> > > stuff
> > > hobbyists use and equipped it with three pop-pop
> > > engines. The largest of the tin pop-pop boats made
> > > in India and sold by Buzz is the 15-inch long
> > > "Titanic."
> > > The smallest R/C boat I know of with conventional
> > > equipment is the "Footy," so called because it's just
> > > 12-inches long. A pop-pop engine can be as simple
> > > as a length of copper tubing 3/32" diameter or so,
> > > with two or three turns of coil at the center and two
> > > ends sticking out somewhere below the water line.
> > > With enough heat, a boat could have a dozen engines
> > > for just slightly more than one engine would cost.
> > > There are still a lot of questions to be answered,
> > > by folks on pop-pop-steamboats perhaps. I just
> > > posted a link to the American Stirling company to
> > > provide an answer to how small can they be.
> > > There's a photo of one resting on the palm of a
> > > hand and powered by what must be a warm hand.
> > >
> > > Best wishes, Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Charles Duggie <mineadmiral@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi;
> > > >    I went to the informational links and read up on
> > > > pop-pop boats. I don't know if these boats could be
> > > > made large enough to carry radio control gear. How
> > > > big can a pop-pop engine be? Can you put 2 in 1
> > > > boat?
> > > >    As far as Stirling engines , I have to read up on
> > > > them. But I believe there are Stirling powered
> > > > submarines in at least one of the Scandanavian
> > > > navies. Could these engines be miniaturised?
> > > >
> > > >   Chuck Duggie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low
> > > >  PC-to-Phone call rates.
> > >
> > > "Americans will always do the right thing... After they've exhausted
> > all the alternatives."
> > > Sir Winston Churchill
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
>

Thanks, Don...   it really is a screamer.  But no, it is not
proportional. It's full on when you hit the throttle. I had to learn
to stand beside it instead of behind it when I hit the throttle after
getting soaked a couple of times. <g> It is differential thrust.
If you're thinking of putting this in something small...  it might not
fit as the  radio is a bit large.  I really think,  for the money,
that the Specktrum DX-6 radio is the best for the price. It transmits
and receives on 2 channels... no glitches. The receivers are also very
small.  I'd better shut up, because I think there is an article coming
  out soon in Steam In The Garden magazine.  Look for it...  I use one
now and it is incredible!

--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Munsey Jr."
<dmunseyjr@...> wrote:
>
> Buzz,
>
> KOOL Boat!
>
> Now you've got my interest and I can bet there will be a few others
interested in your cheaprc program.  There is a faction of the On30
Model Railroad community, led by Woodie Clyde Greene of the Texas
Outlaws On30 group, that is rebelling against layout wiring and track
cleaning. They are converting their locomotives to self-contained,
battery powered R/C units.  I'm a remote follower and have several
S/Sn42 and 1:24 R/C locos in the works (I use many of the same
mechanisms the On30 crowd does).  The current source of choice for the
R/C electronics for these conversions is the Kyosho Mini-Z 1:24 R/C
autos with digital proportional speed control (As yet the steering
channel is not often used - however - there are lot's of creative folk
into R/C trains - so who knows).  At about $100 a pop (cheaper
occasionally on e-bay) the Mini-Z racers are a bit pricey, but still
very much affordable.  Your $60 R/C speed boat peaques my interest!
Here are a couple of questions:
>
> 1.  Can you slow the boat down to operate something like a tug boat
(I want a 1:24 river tug for my garden railway)?  In other words, Is
the speed controller proportional, or full forward only?
>
> 2.   What is the size of the electronics and battery components for
this boat?
>
> 3.   Can they be physically separated?
>
> 4   Can they be purchased separately?
>
> 5.  Can different boats be operated simultaneously?
>
> 6.  Is there a rudder in this boat (2nd channel), or is directional
controll accomplished by differential thrust applied to the port and
starboard engines?
>
> That's all I can think of now.
>
> Keep in touch.
> Don Munsey, Jr.
> dmunseyjr@...
> Sn42 and Hn42 logging fan
> Virginian Rwy fan
> Bonsai grasshopper
> Living in the UpperRightCorner of Louisiana.
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: buzzsboatyard
>   To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:20 PM
>   Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Radio control pop-pop boats
>
>
>   Hi Chuck,
>
>   This is Buzz from Buzz's BoatYard. I posted a few minutes ago but I
>   don't see it anywhere now. You can certainly put r/c equipment in a
>   pop pop boat. I do it from time to time. If the other message I
>   replied to would show up, it would answer a lot of your questions.
>
>   I carry pop pop boats with very large engines in them.. and I have
>   installed r/c in the Titanic and in the Super Tug. I am also working
>   now on a wood pop pop powered shrimp boat which will have plenty of
>   room for r/c gear. As for the Stirling engine, yes.... I can find you
>   a lot of varieties of small ones that run off the heat of a cup of
>   coffee. The problem is, the small ones are very weak in power. They
>   develop enough power to turn the engine components, but I don't think
>   the small ones would be able to power much more. Feel free to ask me
>   any questions about poppop applications. You can view some of them
>   running in my pond if you go to the "movie theater" link on my
>   website. The website is at:
>
>   www.buzzboats.com
>
>   Thanks,
>
>   Buzz
>
>   New Message Search
>   Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the
improved message search.
>
>
>
>   Share feedback on the new changes to Groups
>
>   Recent Activity
>     a..  21New Members
>     b..  2New Photos
>     c..  57New Links
>   Visit Your Group
>   SPONSORED LINKS
>     a.. Yacht
>     b.. Caribbean yacht
>     c.. Mega yacht
>     d.. Motor yacht
>     e.. Sailing yacht
>     f.. Yacht club
>   .
>

Hi Don and Buzz,

There is another way to slow the "screamer" down by using props with
a flatter pitch. Guys on the tugsandtows group started making their
own props after discovering that props made by using fixtures to
twist the blades of props cut from flat metal worked just as well as
custom made props designed to look like those on real tug boats.
Flat blades wouldn't provide any thrust, so it seems reasonable to
believe that a very slight degree of twist would provide a very
slight degree of propulsion and speed. Maybe that's why I have so
much trouble propelling myself out of bed these days.

old Frank

--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "buzzsboatyard"
<buzzsboatyard@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Don...   it really is a screamer.  But no, it is not
> proportional. It's full on when you hit the throttle. I had to
learn
> to stand beside it instead of behind it when I hit the throttle
after
> getting soaked a couple of times. <g> It is differential thrust.
> If you're thinking of putting this in something small...  it might
not
> fit as the  radio is a bit large.  I really think,  for the money,
> that the Specktrum DX-6 radio is the best for the price. It
transmits
> and receives on 2 channels... no glitches. The receivers are also
very
> small.  I'd better shut up, because I think there is an article
coming
>  out soon in Steam In The Garden magazine.  Look for it...  I use
one
> now and it is incredible!
>
> --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Munsey Jr."
> <dmunseyjr@> wrote:
> >
> > Buzz,
> >
> > KOOL Boat!
> >
> > Now you've got my interest and I can bet there will be a few
others
> interested in your cheaprc program.  There is a faction of the On30
> Model Railroad community, led by Woodie Clyde Greene of the Texas
> Outlaws On30 group, that is rebelling against layout wiring and
track
> cleaning. They are converting their locomotives to self-contained,
> battery powered R/C units.  I'm a remote follower and have several
> S/Sn42 and 1:24 R/C locos in the works (I use many of the same
> mechanisms the On30 crowd does).  The current source of choice for
the
> R/C electronics for these conversions is the Kyosho Mini-Z 1:24 R/C
> autos with digital proportional speed control (As yet the steering
> channel is not often used - however - there are lot's of creative
folk
> into R/C trains - so who knows).  At about $100 a pop (cheaper
> occasionally on e-bay) the Mini-Z racers are a bit pricey, but
still
> very much affordable.  Your $60 R/C speed boat peaques my
interest!
> Here are a couple of questions:
> >
> > 1.  Can you slow the boat down to operate something like a tug
boat
> (I want a 1:24 river tug for my garden railway)?  In other words,
Is
> the speed controller proportional, or full forward only?
> >
> > 2.   What is the size of the electronics and battery components
for
> this boat?
> >
> > 3.   Can they be physically separated?
> >
> > 4   Can they be purchased separately?
> >
> > 5.  Can different boats be operated simultaneously?
> >
> > 6.  Is there a rudder in this boat (2nd channel), or is
directional
> controll accomplished by differential thrust applied to the port
and
> starboard engines?
> >
> > That's all I can think of now.
> >
> > Keep in touch.
> > Don Munsey, Jr.
> > dmunseyjr@
> > Sn42 and Hn42 logging fan
> > Virginian Rwy fan
> > Bonsai grasshopper
> > Living in the UpperRightCorner of Louisiana.
> >
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: buzzsboatyard
> >   To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:20 PM
> >   Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Radio control pop-pop boats
> >
> >
> >   Hi Chuck,
> >
> >   This is Buzz from Buzz's BoatYard. I posted a few minutes ago
but I
> >   don't see it anywhere now. You can certainly put r/c equipment
in a
> >   pop pop boat. I do it from time to time. If the other message I
> >   replied to would show up, it would answer a lot of your
questions.
> >
> >   I carry pop pop boats with very large engines in them.. and I
have
> >   installed r/c in the Titanic and in the Super Tug. I am also
working
> >   now on a wood pop pop powered shrimp boat which will have
plenty of
> >   room for r/c gear. As for the Stirling engine, yes.... I can
find you
> >   a lot of varieties of small ones that run off the heat of a
cup of
> >   coffee. The problem is, the small ones are very weak in power.
They
> >   develop enough power to turn the engine components, but I
don't think
> >   the small ones would be able to power much more. Feel free to
ask me
> >   any questions about poppop applications. You can view some of
them
> >   running in my pond if you go to the "movie theater" link on my
> >   website. The website is at:
> >
> >   www.buzzboats.com
> >
> >   Thanks,
> >
> >   Buzz
> >
> >   New Message Search
> >   Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out
the
> improved message search.
> >
> >
> >
> >   Share feedback on the new changes to Groups
> >
> >   Recent Activity
> >     a..  21New Members
> >     b..  2New Photos
> >     c..  57New Links
> >   Visit Your Group
> >   SPONSORED LINKS
> >     a.. Yacht
> >     b.. Caribbean yacht
> >     c.. Mega yacht
> >     d.. Motor yacht
> >     e.. Sailing yacht
> >     f.. Yacht club
> >   .
> >
>

Hi All,

Our twenty-fourth member is named Dan, except at night
when there is a full moon and he is transformed into a
grauwulf. Just kidding I hope. There are two dozen of
us now so we're on the way to becoming gross.

Best wishes, old Frank

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I almost fainted when I read that an dmir2001 wanted
to join the group. I was wearing the wrong glasses,
and thought an Emir wanted to join! Not too sure what
an Emir is, but recalled reading that they travel with
a lot of harem women that would distract members of
the crew from whatever it is that members of the crew
are supposed to do. old Frank here

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I almost fainted when I read that an dmir2001 wanted
to join the group. I was wearing the wrong glasses,
and thought an Emir wanted to join! Not too sure what
an Emir is, but recalled reading that they travel with
a lot of harem women that would distract members of
the crew from whatever it is that members of the crew
are supposed to do. old Frank here

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- John Schroeder <dmir2001@...> wrote:

> Hi Frank...
>
>   LOL... And thanks for the welcome... I  guess an
> Emir is some kinda Muslem BigWig... Will see that as
> a crossword puzzle clue every now and again.. Again,
> thank you...
>
  Hi John,

Thanks for your note which prompted a search to find
out what the heck an emir is. This is what I found:

Origins
Emir, originally Amir, meaning commander in Arabic,
derives from the Arabic root ʾ-m-r "to order".
Originally simply meaning commander or leader, usually
in reference to a group of people, it came to be used
as a title of governors or rulers, usually in smaller
states, and in modern Arabic usually renders the
English word 'prince'. The word entered English in
1595, from the French émir [1].

In Arabic and Persian :

A state ruled by an independent emir is an emirate.
Some emirates are sovereign, such as the Kuwaiti
monarchy (ruled by the al-Sabah dynasty since the
country gained independence in 1961), Qatar (since
1971), and Bahrain (1971-2002). Emirates can also be
constitutive parts of a state, notably the seven
United Arab Emirates, which belong to a federal
monarchy, and are the electors of its presidency and
prime minister.
Another meaning of the word emir is "prince"
(specifically, the male descendant of a sovereign).
This title was used in the sultanate of the Maldives
alongside the native title Manippulu. In some states
it could mean "crown prince" (more typically Wali
al-Ahd). For example, before he was crowned as King
Abdullah of Jordan, the son of King Hussein was still
referred to as "Emir Abdullah" (in this case an
obsolete title of the dynasty, which adopted the
higher title of Malik = king).
[edit]
In other Muslim cultures
In various Muslim states, Amir was also a nobiliary
title, as under the (Turkic?) form ämir in the Tartar
Khanate of Kazan
In Pakistan and India it also means "rich", and has a
connotation of immortality (a- means "not" and -mar
means "dying", so the name Amar means eternal)
Emir is also the title of the religious leader
(without political power) of the Ahmadiyya anjuman
ishaat-i Islam, a minor Muslim sect, established in
Lahore in April 1914, with five incumbents to date.
In northern Nigeria and other parts of the Sahel
(including various jihad states), the title of some
Muslim traditional rulers is emir or a corruption such
as lamido, sometimes used in addition to a native
title. The most prominent of these are the emirs of
Kano, Bauchi, Zaria and Adamawa.
The Yazidi religion has an emir as its secular leader
alongside a chief sheikh as its religious leader.
Derived and compound titles are numerous.

Maybe I should print that out and carry it so I will
be prepared if anybody ever asks me what an emir is.

Best wishes, Frank

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Our new member has aza52us as his Yahoo ID, no other info on his
profile, so your guess is aza52us good as mine. I considered applying
for the witness protection plan myself, but was rejected because I
haven't witnessed anything. They suggested the witless protection
plan, but I forgot to send my application in on time.

best to all, old Frank

-- but I decided to wait a while for introductions, to
see if more of them show  up. Meanwhile, please click
on:
http://www.contemplator.com/sea/index.html to hear
Songs of the Sea, offered gratis by the management for
your listening pleasure.

old Frank

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

The first new members today were robotc and pkw115.
I thought there might be more, and sure enough, there
were two more, cornish81 and willieb1111. I will get
around to better introductions in a few days, when my
daughter gets home and I can use my iMac, files and
such, instead of an ancient PC (five or six years old
now) in my daughter's house. Hope I don't find out
that I forgot how to use a Macintosh computer while I
was struggling with this PC. :-) old Frank

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Mike Dugan, also known as thedugan, is our newest member.
Best wishes to Mike and all, old Frank

Hi all,

We have just one rule, so there aren't any other rules
or off-topic subjects for discussion. We have members
with different interests because invitations to join
were sent to several groups that do have special
topics like the design and construction of R/C models;
construction and operation of steam powered launches;
naval war games that use small waterline models as
markers; maritime history; wood working; casting
metals, plastics and Portland cement mortar; growing
bamboo and making bamboo products, flyrods for
example, and perhaps eventually hulls, decks and the
like made of bamboo.
Suggestions, anyone, for a discussion topic- it might
even be related to development of pop-pop boats that
resemble real steam powered boats or ships and could
be equipped for radio or infrared control. I have a
question, or topic, for members who design or build
remotely controllable models, ships, cars, planes or
whatever- are there any systems that could be used to
actuate small valves? There are sources for miniature
solenoid actuated valves that could be powered by four
2A size batteries. but I haven't been able to find out
if there are radio or infrared receivers that can
control valves without using servos of the kind used
in remotely controllable models and toys.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Has anyone on here actually made one, if so how did it work? What
materials did you use, and any suggestions on procedures would help. I
have a granddaughter I would like to make one for she's 8 going on 20
but I think she would get a kick out of seeing this going around her
pool.
                                                  Craig


On 7/7/06, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We have just one rule, so there aren't any other rules
> or off-topic subjects for discussion. We have members
> with different interests because invitations to join
> were sent to several groups that do have special
> topics like the design and construction of R/C models;
> construction and operation of steam powered launches;
> naval war games that use small waterline models as
> markers; maritime history; wood working; casting
> metals, plastics and Portland cement mortar; growing
> bamboo and making bamboo products, flyrods for
> example, and perhaps eventually hulls, decks and the
> like made of bamboo.
> Suggestions, anyone, for a discussion topic- it might
> even be related to development of pop-pop boats that
> resemble real steam powered boats or ships and could
> be equipped for radio or infrared control. I have a
> question, or topic, for members who design or build
> remotely controllable models, ships, cars, planes or
> whatever- are there any systems that could be used to
> actuate small valves? There are sources for miniature
> solenoid actuated valves that could be powered by four
> 2A size batteries. but I haven't been able to find out
> if there are radio or infrared receivers that can
> control valves without using servos of the kind used
> in remotely controllable models and toys.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Frank McNeill wrote:
  > Mike Dugan, also known as thedugan, is our newest member.
  > Best wishes to Mike and all, old Frank

Thanks!

This looks more like an 'interesting or weird technology' group than
just pop-pop boats, so I joined.... I heard about this through one of
my other Yahoo groups.

I'm too busy - usually - with family and such to DO anything, but I
like reading about things like this. I used to build radios and putter
about with them as a teenager - back then tube sets were the norm,
transistors were just getting widespread use. How to use them was
almost impossible to find out about, so I lost interest in it after
my parents got divorced.

I remember seeing something like the pop-pop in a Boy Scout manual
somewhere - LONG ago....

I'm also a member on some forum of people that build 'Farnsworth
Fusors', THAT is certainly a lot of work to build from scratch - but
darned interesting to read about.

I like to watch "American Chopper", or anything else that goes through
the creative process in a similiar way.

Hi everyone,
Sorry for the delayed introduction here.  I've been on
the list for about a week now, but now I finally have
a little bit of time to type out some of my adventures
with pop-pop boats.

There was a series of articles in the British magazine
Model Boats about 10 years ago where the author was
experimenting with pop-pops using a single coiled tube
instead of the traditional pop-pop membrane-topped
"boiler".  He was using butane micro-torches to fire
them.  His experiments included varying numbers of
coils, different diameters of tube, different
placement of the torches, etc. to see what gave the
best results.  In one of the articles, he found that
square-section tube worked better than normal round
tube.  He only needed a single loop of square tube to
match the performance of one of his earlier boats that
had several loops of round tube.  Some good reading
there, I just wish I could remember the author's name,
or the dates those articles ran.

Anyway, after reading about the square tube, and
realizing I had some 1/8" square brass tube lying
around, I decided to try it for myself.  The loop is
not even a complete 360-degree loop, basically it's a
270-degree bend followed by a 90-degree bend in the
other direction so that both ends of the tube end up
parallel and pointing in the same direction.  (Hint:
annealing the tube makes bending the coil much
easier.)  Since it was just an experiment, I didn't
feel like going through the trouble of building a
proper hull for it, so I quickly formed a rough hull
out of aluminum foil, poked the ends of the tube out
through the stern, and dripped some candle wax around
the hole in the hull to seal it up.  I already had one
of the little tinplate pop-pop boats that I had bought
a few months earlier, so I borrowed the candle burner
from that boat to provide the flame.  I gave the
experimental foil boat a test run in the bathtub.  It
was faster and much quieter than the tinplate boat
(which has the traditional pop-pop boiler).  Since the
experiment was a success I removed the engine from the
foil hull and built a new 6-inch wooden hull for it
instead.  A piece of sheet brass protects the inside
bottom of the hull from the heat source.

Around the same time, I also bought a very small
single-cylinder oscillating steam engine and boiler
kit.  The boiler measures about 1" in diameter by 2"
long, and although it's a working engine, the unit was
really intended more for show than anything else.  The
engine was supposed to be mounted on top of the boiler
and just sit there and spin and make everyone say "It
actually runs on steam?  Wow!  It's so small!"  Well,
that's all very well and good, but I thought it would
be a lot more fun to use it in a boat, so I built a
base for it with the engine mounted vertically aft of
the boiler.  I designed a 12.5" steam launch hull for
it, and then the idea hit me to build two identical
hulls, one using the steam engine and the other as a
pop-pop.  I had already chosen the name "Firefly" for
the steamer, so the pop-pop version naturally became
"Popfly", although I never actually got her finished.
Since my earlier experimental boat was going to be the
testbed for ideas I was going to use on Popfly (and
since she's only half the size), I named her
"Popflea".

One of the things that I wanted to do on Popfly was to
build an enclosure for the fire, with a smokestack on
top, designed to look like a vertical steam launch
boiler.  When I tried it on Popflea, the "boiler"
quickly became too hot and melted the solder joints
holding it together.  That was really the main thing
that caused me to put Popfly on hold.  Higher
temperature solder, or better yet mechanical
fastenings seem like the way to go, just haven't got
around to trying it out yet.

I have also experimented with a few different flame
sources on Popflea, including candles, little chunks
of esbit, and small blobs of sterno.  She will run
happily on any of those, although esbit leaves sooty
deposits on the tube coil that can build up and reduce
the efficiency of the heat transfer (does burn hotter
than sterno though).  Then, one day a few years back
when I was staying at my sister's place, her roommate
told me something that she thought was just a useless
bit of trivia: that brazil nuts contain so much oil
that they will burn like a candle.  A little lightbulb
immediately went on over my head, I brought out
Popflea, cracked a brazil nut and cut it in half, lit
it up and put it in the boat.  Sure enough, she
steamed merrily around the kitchen sink on nut power!
Didn't smell too good, but it worked!  Actually my
sister's roommate was so impressed that she wanted her
own nut-fired boat, so I made her one with a copy of
Popflea's square-tube engine, using a sardine can for
the hull.

I've been giving some thought to the idea of an R/C
pop-pop since it came up on the list here.  I wonder
if a Kitchen rudder would work on a pop-pop boat.  For
those that don't know, a Kitchen rudder (named for its
inventor Jack Kitchen) is a device that is designed to
control the speed and direction of a boat with a
single-speed, non-reversible engine.  Basically it has
two curved blades that encircle the propeller, sort of
resembling a Kort nozzle when they're in the open
position.  In the closed position, the two blades come
together to form a cone behind the propeller,
deflecting the propwash forward around the propeller
to reverse the boat.  Speed can be controlled by
closing the blades only part-way.  The blades can also
be turned together in either directon for steering.
I'm thinking if the tubes of a pop-pop unit are close
enough together where they exit the hull, perhaps a
single Kitchen rudder surrounding the ends of both
tubes might work.  On the other hand, the dynamics
might be a little bit different without the spinning
propeller in there.  Guess there's only one way to
find out!  Anyway, here's a little more info and some
diagrams...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_rudder

Richard Jenkins

--- Craig Harder <craigmharder@...> wrote:

> Has anyone on here actually made one, if so how did
> it work? What
> materials did you use, and any suggestions on
> procedures would help. I
> have a granddaughter I would like to make one for
> she's 8 going on 20
> but I think she would get a kick out of seeing this
> going around her
> pool.
>
> Craig

Hi Richard,

Thank you for the information about square-tube,
coiled boilers and Kitchen rudders. I know quite a bit
more about methods for improving the performance of
pop-pop engines than I did ten-minutes ago.
One of the best, and currently rarest non popping
pop-pop boats has a similar folded over coiled tube
similar to what you described. Seems a better way to
go about it than a coil of the type shown in most
photos of engines of this kind. One of the items in
files titled "Vertical self-contained pop-pop engine"
shows a less than explanatory view of a vertical
engine sold by Hobbies of Dereham for an outrageously
inflated price. There's a similar vertical engine in a
wooden boat shown in a photo on the website for
"Buzz's Boatyard." I have assumed that both of these
vertical engines use diaphragm boilers, since vertical
coil engines might look more like stacks without
attached "fat" boiler sections. One advantage of thin
vertical boilers might be that they could be installed
in cylindrical versions of the "bait" or "centerboard"
box and rotated for steering, the way outboard motors
are used. I probably have more time to waste searching
for stuff on the WWW and will try to find out more
information of the kind you have provided. I'm
something in between a contributor and a skulker on
the paddleducks group, formerly a Yahoo group, but now
on their own website. Check it out if you haven't
already- very informative and lots of wonderful
photos.
Thanks for a lot of information about things I didn't
know about until quite recently!
old Frank



--- Richard Jenkins <rjenkins@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> Sorry for the delayed introduction here.  I've been
> on
> the list for about a week now, but now I finally
> have
> a little bit of time to type out some of my
> adventures
> with pop-pop boats.
>
> There was a series of articles in the British
> magazine
> Model Boats about 10 years ago where the author was
> experimenting with pop-pops using a single coiled
> tube
> instead of the traditional pop-pop membrane-topped
> "boiler".  He was using butane micro-torches to fire
> them.  His experiments included varying numbers of
> coils, different diameters of tube, different
> placement of the torches, etc. to see what gave the
> best results.  In one of the articles, he found that
> square-section tube worked better than normal round
> tube.  He only needed a single loop of square tube
> to
> match the performance of one of his earlier boats
> that
> had several loops of round tube.  Some good reading
> there, I just wish I could remember the author's
> name,
> or the dates those articles ran.
>
> Anyway, after reading about the square tube, and
> realizing I had some 1/8" square brass tube lying
> around, I decided to try it for myself.  The loop is
> not even a complete 360-degree loop, basically it's
> a
> 270-degree bend followed by a 90-degree bend in the
> other direction so that both ends of the tube end up
> parallel and pointing in the same direction.  (Hint:
> annealing the tube makes bending the coil much
> easier.)  Since it was just an experiment, I didn't
> feel like going through the trouble of building a
> proper hull for it, so I quickly formed a rough hull
> out of aluminum foil, poked the ends of the tube out
> through the stern, and dripped some candle wax
> around
> the hole in the hull to seal it up.  I already had
> one
> of the little tinplate pop-pop boats that I had
> bought
> a few months earlier, so I borrowed the candle
> burner
> from that boat to provide the flame.  I gave the
> experimental foil boat a test run in the bathtub.
> It
> was faster and much quieter than the tinplate boat
> (which has the traditional pop-pop boiler).  Since
> the
> experiment was a success I removed the engine from
> the
> foil hull and built a new 6-inch wooden hull for it
> instead.  A piece of sheet brass protects the inside
> bottom of the hull from the heat source.
>
> Around the same time, I also bought a very small
> single-cylinder oscillating steam engine and boiler
> kit.  The boiler measures about 1" in diameter by 2"
> long, and although it's a working engine, the unit
> was
> really intended more for show than anything else.
> The
> engine was supposed to be mounted on top of the
> boiler
> and just sit there and spin and make everyone say
> "It
> actually runs on steam?  Wow!  It's so small!"
> Well,
> that's all very well and good, but I thought it
> would
> be a lot more fun to use it in a boat, so I built a
> base for it with the engine mounted vertically aft
> of
> the boiler.  I designed a 12.5" steam launch hull
> for
> it, and then the idea hit me to build two identical
> hulls, one using the steam engine and the other as a
> pop-pop.  I had already chosen the name "Firefly"
> for
> the steamer, so the pop-pop version naturally became
> "Popfly", although I never actually got her
> finished.
> Since my earlier experimental boat was going to be
> the
> testbed for ideas I was going to use on Popfly (and
> since she's only half the size), I named her
> "Popflea".
>
> One of the things that I wanted to do on Popfly was
> to
> build an enclosure for the fire, with a smokestack
> on
> top, designed to look like a vertical steam launch
> boiler.  When I tried it on Popflea, the "boiler"
> quickly became too hot and melted the solder joints
> holding it together.  That was really the main thing
> that caused me to put Popfly on hold.  Higher
> temperature solder, or better yet mechanical
> fastenings seem like the way to go, just haven't got
> around to trying it out yet.
>
> I have also experimented with a few different flame
> sources on Popflea, including candles, little chunks
> of esbit, and small blobs of sterno.  She will run
> happily on any of those, although esbit leaves sooty
> deposits on the tube coil that can build up and
> reduce
> the efficiency of the heat transfer (does burn
> hotter
> than sterno though).  Then, one day a few years back
> when I was staying at my sister's place, her
> roommate
> told me something that she thought was just a
> useless
> bit of trivia: that brazil nuts contain so much oil
> that they will burn like a candle.  A little
> lightbulb
> immediately went on over my head, I brought out
> Popflea, cracked a brazil nut and cut it in half,
> lit
> it up and put it in the boat.  Sure enough, she
> steamed merrily around the kitchen sink on nut
> power!
> Didn't smell too good, but it worked!  Actually my
> sister's roommate was so impressed that she wanted
> her
> own nut-fired boat, so I made her one with a copy of
> Popflea's square-tube engine, using a sardine can
> for
> the hull.
>
> I've been giving some thought to the idea of an R/C
> pop-pop since it came up on the list here.  I wonder
> if a Kitchen rudder would work on a pop-pop boat.
> For
> those that don't know, a Kitchen rudder (named for
> its
> inventor Jack Kitchen) is a device that is designed
> to
> control the speed and direction of a boat with a
> single-speed, non-reversible engine.  Basically it
> has
> two curved blades that encircle the propeller, sort
> of
> resembling a Kort nozzle when they're in the open
> position.  In the closed position, the two blades
> come
> together to form a cone behind the propeller,
> deflecting the propwash forward around the propeller
> to reverse the boat.  Speed can be controlled by
> closing the blades only part-way.  The blades can
> also
> be turned together in either directon for steering.
> I'm thinking if the tubes of a pop-pop unit are
> close
> enough together where they exit the hull, perhaps a
> single Kitchen rudder surrounding the ends of both
> tubes might work.  On the other hand, the dynamics
> might be a little bit different without the spinning
> propeller in there.  Guess there's only one way to
> find out!  Anyway, here's a little more info and
> some
> diagrams...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_rudder
>
> Richard Jenkins
>
> --- Craig Harder <craigmharder@...> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone on here actually made one, if so how
> did
> > it work? What
> > materials did you use, and any suggestions on
> > procedures would help. I
> > have a granddaughter I would like to make one for
> > she's 8 going on 20
> > but I think she would get a kick out of seeing
> this
> > going around her
> > pool.
> >
> > Craig
>
>


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Hi Lance,

The largest tin pop-pop boat currently being manufactured by
Rattandeep Enterprise Company is the 15-inch long "Titanic"
which can be seen and heard in a film clip on Buzz's Boatyard.
Go to the links section for this one. A similar question about
size limitations is answered in message #13 which mentions the
experimental work by the late Peter R. Payne with boats large
enough to ride in and engines that were different from, and a
lot more sophisticated than the simple little pop-pop engines
that are manufactured by Rattandeep and other companies now.

best wishes, Frank


--- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Romance"
<willieb1@...> wrote:
>
> How large can a "pop-pop engine" be and still work? Or is there
even a size
> limit to how it
> big it CAN be to work?
> I personally have never seen one operate. It was always the rich
kids who
> had them when I was growing up, and they never seemed to have time
to make
> it work.
> On 7/7/06, Mike & Carmen <mikenmenchie@...> wrote:
> >
> >   Frank McNeill wrote:
> > > Mike Dugan, also known as thedugan, is our newest member.
> > > Best wishes to Mike and all, old Frank
> >
   snip-  snip-  snip-

In response to a request to have a link to
pop-pop-steamboats on Chuck Leinweber's DUCKWORKS
magazine, I got this reply today;

"Hi, Frank:

I have posted a link in our "Links" section. I am also
going to publish your letter in our "Letters" section
with a link to the forum.  Thanks for letting us know
about it.

Chuck"

NOTE: There's a link to the DUCKWORKS magazine in our
links section.

There's also a link titled "Miss England" doubled tube
boiler coil" to a photo of a doubled over tubing coil
similar to a coil Richard Jenkins described Friday,
except that this one appears to have been made of
round tubing flattened slightly by wrapping it to form
a coil.
I wasn't able to find any "Model Boats" magazine
articles, but suspect the author might have been Basil
Harvey, based on this clipping from the Pop-pop Pages:
"Basil Harley seems to have rediscovered the 1891
invention of the pop-pop boat about 1982, after having
written several articles on pop-pops for Model Boats
magazine during the 1970s.  In a 1975 article, Harley
mentions a similar boat seen in a French journal from
1880.  The pop-pop boat as we know it originated in an
1891 British patent for water pulse engines by an
inventor named Thomas Piot. The patented engine was of
the coil type.The popularity of the boats spread
quickly, however, and they were soon being
manufactured in many countries. In Toyshop Steam,
Harley mentions a series of boats made in the first
decade of the 20th century by the German toymakers
Ernst Planck. In 1916 a US patent was granted to
Charles McHugh for the diaphragm type engine.  The
McHugh patent was specified for use in toys, while the
Piot patent was apparently left more general. The
addition of the diaphragm seems to have produced a toy
with great appeal, as evidenced by the large number of
advertisements found in magazines such as Popular
Science and Boy's Life (see illustration). The German
name for the boat, toc-toc, originated as a product
brand name for a diaphragm-boilered boat in the late
1920's, while they have also been called put-put,
phut-phut, and pouet-pouet boats elsewhere. "
The only additional news is that my daughter returned
from her trip to Chicago,that my wife and I are back
in our apartment and where I have been able to replace
an older jpg with a new one titled "layout for R-C
boat.jpg." You can find this one in the files section.

Best wishes, old Frank

__________________________________________________
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Has anyone on here actually made one, if so how did it work? What
materials did you use, and any suggestions on procedures would help. I
have a granddaughter I would like to make one for she's 8 going on 20
but I think she would get a kick out of seeing this going around her
pool.
Craig

On 7/7/06, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We have just one rule, so there aren't any other rules
> or off-topic subjects for discussion. We have members
> with different interests because invitations to join
> were sent to several groups that do have special
> topics like the design and construction of R/C models;
> construction and operation of steam powered launches;
> naval war games that use small waterline models as
> markers; maritime history; wood working; casting
> metals, plastics and Portland cement mortar; growing
> bamboo and making bamboo products, flyrods for
> example, and perhaps eventually hulls, decks and the
> like made of bamboo.
> Suggestions, anyone, for a discussion topic- it might
> even be related to development of pop-pop boats that
> resemble real steam powered boats or ships and could
> be equipped for radio or infrared control. I have a
> question, or topic, for members who design or build
> remotely controllable models, ships, cars, planes or
> whatever- are there any systems that could be used to
> actuate small valves? There are sources for miniature
> solenoid actuated valves that could be powered by four
> 2A size batteries. but I haven't been able to find out
> if there are radio or infrared receivers that can
> control valves without using servos of the kind used
> in remotely controllable models and toys.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi all,

Several jpg documents have been added to files.
A jpg titled “folded coil boiler” shows a tube that
was folded double before it was coiled, so its ends
would extend from the same end of the coil, rather
than its opposite ends.
 
Jpgs titled “layout for R-C boat” and “paddle wheeler
layout” show
how each end of a coiled tube could have a “tee”
coupling with two additional tubes that would provide
propulsion in opposite directions until normally open
valves were closed to provide forward, reverse,
rotation in place, or sideways motion.
 
A jpg titled “magnetic Diverter Valve” shows how a
“tee” coupling might be constructed to function as a
diverter valve that could be used as an alternative to
two normally open valves.
 
A jpg titled “Origami Magic Yacht” shows a photograph
of a yacht with a frame-less aluminum hull
manufactured by a Canadian company. There is also a
Yahoo “origamiboats” discussion group at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ that might
interest anyone who would like to know more about a
“do-it-yourself” method for constructing yachts with
steel hulls.

A jpg titled “origami magic pattern” shows a
photograph and a pattern that can be downloaded from
the Origami Magic company’s website. The pattern can
be printed out and used to make a frame-less hull for
a model of the yacht shown on the Origami Magic
Company’s website.

Best wishes, old Frank
 


 

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Hi all,

I decided to change the theme picture because I can,
and because the new picture shows whatR/C pop-pop or
gurgle-gurgle boat might look like. The picture was
borrowed from the Hobbies online catalog. There's a
link to "Hobbies" for anybody who would like to see a
lot of different kits, including some for boats, steam
engines, a vertical pop-pop engine and R/C stuff. Use
"paddle" as a search word to find the picture that I
borrowed. If anybody knows about other pictures that
indicate what R/C poppers or gurglers might look like,
please provide an internet address, or add a clip to
the photos section with a few details.

ta-ta for now, old Frank

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I just posted some pics in the Photos section showing my single-coil
square tube pop-pop boat Popflea and the little oscillating steamer
Firefly that I mentioned in my earlier post.  One of these days I'll
have to get some underway shots of Popflea, or better yet video!  For
such a simple mechanism, she really does run well.

Richard Jenkins

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
pop-pop-steamboats group:

what is your hobby

   o R/C
   o model building
   o electronics
   o metal working
   o wood working


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats/surveys?id=2280428

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

to rc a pop-pop boat all you need is a radio from a rc car

one of the two channel ones will work great as you only need one
channel for the rudder
the other channel can be used for lites or something else

grumpygrady

I couldn't decide who to thank first, grumpygrady for creating our first poll
and suggesting a
way to steer a pop-pop boat by radio control; or Richard Jenkins for posting
photos of his
pop-pop boat, "Popflea" and oscillating engine powered "Firefly," so I did it by
trying to
remember how the alphabet song goes. I also want to thank all the rest for not
jumping ship
yet because we still seem to have thirty-one members.

Thank you and best wishes, old Frank

The reason is that there are now  thirty-two of us on
board.
pug542 wrote that: "I recently saw a post on a casting
group
and having received a pop-pop last fall was interested
in this
sort of discussion. Remote control butane lighter
specifically
caught my eye."  I had to let him in after that, of
course.
Things like this happen just about every time I try to
do a
prenatal poultry census. :-)

Best wishes, old Frank

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