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How to Begin from the Beginning by Zizek   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #3118 of 4073 |
Re: [platypus1917] Re: How to Begin from the Beginning by Zizek

I have no preconceived notions about the council communists, nor am I a Lenin-basher. I'm generally hostile to the ultraleft, at least of recent vintage.  But I find Chris Cutrone's point of departure fundamentally mistaken. Ultimately, the question of the greatest star in the firmament of Marxism is irrelevant.  Suggesting that the left has degenerated since Lenin and the Bolsheviks is a non sequitur in my estimation. Furthermore, it is fundamentally wrong to take as a point of departure the self-understanding of Lenin or any of his contemporaries. Whatever the intentions of the leading theoretician-practitioners of Bolshevism, their perspective and orientation, in spite of the reproduction of their works in millions of copies, were never shared by their followers or even other leaders, not to mention the masses of peasants and the relative handful of proletarians, and their subjective conceptions of their projects were necessarily swallowed up by the circumstances in which they were forced to act and by the perspectives of millions of less sophisticated people and functionaries. One wise man ends up in effect no wiser than the millions of people who drag him down to their level, to which he has to stoop to be effective.  Lenin had more self-consciousness about what he was up against than most, but the fact is his consciousness had to be limited as well as his scope of action, or he could not have functioned as the leader of a party, mass movement, revolution, or head of state.

To give a penetrating example of a whole different kind of analysis, see this old essay I recently uploaded onto my web site:

http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/gouldner7.html

. . . which leads into the text itself:

Gouldner, Alvin W. " Stalinism: A Study of Internal Colonialism," Telos #34, Winter 1977-78, pp. 5-48.

In fact, all of Marxist political practice and the self-conceptions of its theoreticians crashed on the rocks of circumstance. And since that happened, it is obvious that their self-conceptions were not adequate to the concreteness of the situations they faced and to the problems of social transformation.


At 10:54 AM 7/6/2009, Angelus Novus wrote:

--- Chris Cutrone <schwartzweiss@... > schrieb am Mo, 6.7.2009:

> These characters can't hold a candle to Lenin or Trotsky -- or the hero
> they mistakenly try to appropriate, Luxemburg, who worked with Lenin but > would have had nothing to do with them.

Um, considering that Luxemburg was murdered in 1919, whereas the KAPD was founded in 1920, it would have been really difficult for her to "have something to do with them", unless:

1. a time machine had been invented,

or,

2. a cure for death had been discovered.

Pannekoek was in the SPD in the pre-war period, and in fact both Pannekoek and Luxemburg engaged in polemics against the Kautskyite center. Lenin, at the time, shamefully supported Kautsky against Luxemburg.

And "libertarian" would never have been used as a label by these tendencies. That's just a label anarchists like to tack on in their mistaken belief that these tendencies are somewhat compatible with anarchism.

Furthermore, it's a bit of a myth that the KAPD wasn't oriented towards party-building. And the Italian left-communists are Bordiga were quite Leninist.

Sometimes it's a good idea to conduct independent research on something, rather than rely on whatever potted history the Sparts spoon-fed you as a cadre-whelp.

__._,_._


Mon Jul 6, 2009 4:33 pm

rdumain
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... Um, considering that Luxemburg was murdered in 1919, whereas the KAPD was founded in 1920, it would have been really difficult for her to "have something...
Angelus Novus
fuerdenkommu...
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Jul 6, 2009
3:50 pm

I have no preconceived notions about the council communists, nor am I a Lenin-basher. I'm generally hostile to the ultraleft, at least of recent vintage. But...
Ralph Dumain
rdumain
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Jul 6, 2009
4:39 pm

Just two quick historical points: 1) Lenin admitted later that he had been wrong about not defending Luxemburg earlier. He went so far as to say in a letter in...
Jeremy Cohan
gatsby6060
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Jul 6, 2009
7:49 pm

I was addressing the reception and currency of such "Left" communism as a specific symptom of the present, which has more to do with the legacy of the 1960s...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 6, 2009
4:29 pm

My point is not so much positive as "negative," meaning, does history have anything -- *critical* -- to offer in the present? Can we mount a critique of the...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 6, 2009
4:53 pm

Hello, I have some comments on the proceeding forum discussion. Herman Gorter wrote in 1921 an article titled: "Why we need the Fourth Communist Workers'...
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 6, 2009
7:49 pm

I fail to see what "Newtonian space-time" has to do with anything here and speaking of NEWTONIAN "space-time" seems singularly inappropriate since Minkowski...
rer137@...
shempenmanhce
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Jul 7, 2009
1:01 pm

I agree in part, esp. in the way that dialectical materialism was institutionalized and handed down in a doctrinaire manner to confuse generations. I've...
Ralph Dumain
rdumain
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Jul 7, 2009
1:54 pm

I should have been more precise and written "Newtonian space and time." As for Kant and Newton, that's the issue of materialism vs. idealism, the a priori...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 7, 2009
1:35 pm

I'm generally finding Marxists to have become as irrational as the society in which they live. Among other things, I'm reviewing the entire history of Marxist...
Ralph Dumain
rdumain
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Jul 7, 2009
2:00 pm

The problem is that for many decades "Trotskyists" paid no attention whatsoever to Benjamin and Adorno, leaving them in the hands of (dis)ingenuous amateurs,...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 7, 2009
1:59 pm

I do not believe this one claim: "when Adorno or Benjamin write "regression," they mean the regressing in theory and practice from the insights and...
Ralph Dumain
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Jul 7, 2009
2:13 pm

I agree on the limited usefulness of Lenin on philosophy: limited but useful. On Trotsky on "dialectics," what we have to refer to are popularized (not to say...
Chris Cutrone
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Jul 7, 2009
2:15 pm

I've never been able to stand the News & Letters people, and apparently they can no longer stand one another, as some split I know nothing about has occurred....
Ralph Dumain
rdumain
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Jul 7, 2009
3:43 pm

Specifically, Horkheimer wrote in Daemmerung (Notes 1926-31) of the impossibility of trying to mount an "external critique" of revolutionary Marxism. Adorno...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 7, 2009
2:21 pm

Unfortunately, my reading comprehension of French is not advanced enough for me to venture a solid opinion on the Zizek article from 1977 on Stalinism posted...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 7, 2009
6:09 pm

Don't get me wrong, I like to imagine myself outmarxing Zizek too, but Cutrone throws the baby out with the bathwater (whether this baby is Lacanian, Hegelian...
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 7, 2009
7:37 pm

<<4. Lenin's distinction between philosophical materialism and specific scientific theories is most preceptive. Lenin denies adherence to any specific...
rer137@...
shempenmanhce
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Jul 7, 2009
7:14 pm

It's not opportunist to want to oppose the (non-)"anti-imperialist" demagoguery of Ahmadinejad while not wanting to uncritically endorse either Mousavi's...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 7, 2009
7:55 pm

Chris Cutrone wrote: "It's not opportunist to want to oppose the (non-)"anti-imperialist" demagoguery of Ahmadinejad while not wanting to uncritically endorse...
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 7, 2009
8:55 pm

I'm not playing parlor-intellectual games on the question of politics. It's not "theoretical." What I am expressing comes from what I find immediately...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 7, 2009
9:09 pm

If I fairly grasped the gist of Zizek's article, it comes down to a recognition that with the US-guided world capitalist system speeding up on its catastrophic...
gregory krivoruchko
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 8, 2009
12:44 am

The urgency exists but I think Gregory is misplacing it. It is not that continued U.S. hegemony (what's the alternative for the foreseeable future?) is going...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 8, 2009
12:55 am

The first remark about the US is a strawman, I am aware of Postone's warning about fetishing the US (btw I think its to platypus greatest credit for having...
gregory krivoruchko
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 8, 2009
3:18 am

Dude, the ad hominem-ism has to stop. I don't get my perspective from either Postone or the Spartacists, but I find certain key aspects of their perspectives...
Chris Cutrone
schwartzweiss
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Jul 8, 2009
3:44 am

I've not read Postone's major work, but I was impressed by his brilliant analysis of the Holocaust: "<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/postone1.html>Anti...
Ralph Dumain
rdumain
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Jul 8, 2009
11:58 am

"The fake "Left" is indeed plagued by a negative fetish about the U.S. (and Israel) which demonizes but does not understand. Recognizing this doesn't make one...
gregory krivoruchko
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 8, 2009
12:01 pm

"Beyond this, anti-semitism remains a problem, in the Middle East and elsewhere. Again, recognizing this doesn't mean adopting a pro-Zionist or pro-Israeli...
gregory krivoruchko
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 12, 2009
11:58 pm

I don't see much difference between the two positions. They both go together....
Ralph Dumain
rdumain
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Jul 13, 2009
3:37 am

Yes, they both use some kind of a structuralist explanation. But Postone's theory that capitalism inevitably produces antisemitic responses, implies that...
gregory krivoruchko
gkrivoruchko
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Jul 13, 2009
11:13 am
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