permaculture-request@... wrote:
>
> Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
>         permaculture@...
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         permaculture-request@...
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@...>
> Subject: [permaculture] PCPlantDB mailing lists, lists for the online
permaculture plant
>  database project & other little-used lists - should we keep them?
> Reply-To: permaculture@...
>
> PCPlantDB mailing lists, lists for the online permaculture plant database
project - should we keep them?
> -
>
> I hate to say use them or lose them but do we need to revive this project?
will it go anywhere?
> will the Open Permaculture Project's Permaculture Wiki replace this project?
>
> I hate to keep lists around if they aren't being used. Can we arrive at a
consensus about this?
>
> I can, of course just leave them where they are in case they are needed at
some future time.
>
> The list names are:
> ppcplantdb
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/pcplantdb
> pcplantdb-data
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/pcplantdb-data
> pcplantdb-tech
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/pcplantdb-tech

Yep, I would like to keep the mailing list up and running.
Don't know if the project is sufficiently far advanced to
warrant the two sub lists (-tech and -data).

In my mind the project is still going its just taken a long time
for me to find time to do work on it.

I managed to find some time in june to do a bit of work on the
database, and almost got a working framework running on my home
PC. I was racing against the clock to get a first draft version
up and running so it was in a fit state for other to look at.
Unfortunately time ran out, and I've been waiting for another time
window
to appear to continue the work.

I've posted a message to the pcplantdb with the readme for the
first draft, which explains what I've been thinking of so far.

Basically what I've done to know is develop a framework for
the database. Important components
	 1) Recording info on authors and contributors
		 (essential to find out who contributed what)
	 2) Documentation features. Self documenting features
		 similar to javadoc so that everything
		 (eg table definitions) is well documented.
		 Includes a glossary feature.
	 3) An extensible framework which can allow authors
		 to add their own tables of information, or
		 fields to existing tables.
	 4) Referencing and bibliographic information.
	 5) Mechanism for linking with other datasets.

What I've not done is any spec for that actual data to be recorded
about any particular plant. I feel that this is really for
the discussion of the group rather something to be imposed. Hence
I've concentrated on what might be the core underlying framework
which allows others to really develop the data structure.

We've also been in discussion in PFAF about our licensing policy
and every one seems to like the two path development, where
we have one path completely open source (with some restrictions
on selling our data) which would be the pcplantdb, the other path is
a commercial product (with pictures added) to raise some money
for our project. Upshot of this is its looking more likely for
a basic dataset to get pcplantdb up and running.

Unfortunately, I have not had time to get the basic framework running
on the metalab machines so you can't yet see what I've done so far.
I'll have another stab at getting the working system up and running
in the next couple of days. Very very draft, be warned.

	 Sorry for not letting people know what's been going on sooner.

		 Rich

--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:    01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf

Any word yet, Rich?

We're getting a constant flow of emails from the educational
institutions that have linked to the db that it has been down for two
months now.  Can we help in any way?

Marcus

Information about own rootstock fruit tree growing...

http://www.cooltemperate.co.uk/own_root.shtml

(fwd'd to UK permaculture list & eco vegans list as might be of interest)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Margaret L Wilson" <>
To: <permaculture@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Where/How to start


> I think my biggest hurdle to turning this old ranch into a self sustaining
> permaculture, that I can leave to my grandchildren, is actually knowing
> where to start.  I think it would be  much easier to start with a bare
> piece of land rather than having to live with someone else's mistakes
while
> you are trying to repair and redesign everything.
> Margaret SW Oregon
>

A key principle about permaculture is, I think, that we start from where we
are... as a person who lives in a large conurbation with an 'allegedly'
(disclaimer ;-) ) corrupt council who are more interested in putting roads
through 11th century public parks, and also want to build incinerators on
public land, where I live is hardly 'the permaculture ideal'- ditto the site
of this years UK permaculture convergence/conference, held in Easton,
Bristol, a highly impoverished/run down inner city zone where people are
making the very best of a bad lot, was truly inspiring- like I say in my
book 'Permaculture A Beginners guide', not alot of us have a great deal of
control over where we live, especially if we ain't got alot of cash... But
we can all have a hell of alot of control over HOW we live...

Consider the mistakes of your predecessors as 'limiting factors', overcoming
these is all part of that wonderful experience known as the permaculture
design process...

Over & out (for now)

Graham Burnett
www.landandliberty.co.uk


> -----------------------------------------------------
> Click here for Free Video!!
> http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@...
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture

Hi Richard,

I'm just cleaning out my mailbox and came across this:

Richard Morris wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for the feedback. Much appreciated and helpful.
>
> A couple of new drafts for logo attached.
>
> In relation to specific comments
>
> Ute Bohnsack wrote:
> > How about a composite photographic banner with say 5-7 photos of some of the
'5
> > out of 5' less well known edibles and the PFAF title superimposed.
> > I'd have a go, if you like, but I lack photos of less well-known species in
> > their e.g. fruiting stage.
>
> Cool, I've been think similar thoughts myself, but time and graphics
> skills limited. You can find some images at
>         http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/photos/photos.html
> mainly flowering plants, so maybe not the most useful ones, but..
[snip]


Totally overlooked it. Do you still want me to have a go?

My apologies.

Ute
>

Hi Rich- here's a forward of a post from the Permaculture Newsgroup after I
copied and pasted the page on Quinoa...

Message follows;

"Janet Baraclough" <> wrote in message
news:2002110218261988435@....
> The message <ooTw9.7661$CC7.53505187@...>
> from "Graham Burnett" <grahamburmett@...> contains these
words:
>
> > There's also this from Plants For A Future's database...
>
> > http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/cgi-bin/pfaf/arr_html?Chenopodium+quinoa
>
> > Chenopodium quinoa (snip)
>
> > The plant prefers light (sandy), medium (loamy) and heavy (clay) soils
and
> > requires well-drained soil. The plant prefers acid, neutral and basic
> > (alkaline) soils and can grow in very alkaline and saline soils.It
> > requires moist soil....
>
>   Well which does it "prefer"....light or heavy; sandy or clay; acid or
> neutral or alkaline? Does it require well drained, or moist soil?
>
>  Can the Leeds author distinguish an arse from an elbow, one wonders?
>
>   :-)
>

Blimey you mean somebody actually READS that stuff I copy and paste!! Well
done! The 'Leeds author' was probably Ken Fern, however I think I might just
pass your comment back to the PFAF yahoo list and see if they can spin
doctor their way out of that colemanballism....

Cheers Graham

From another list.....

------Original Message-------

Just thought everyone should know about this.

<snip from another email>
Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons" to track YahooGroups users
around the net & see what you are doing. ...seems these beacons work just
like cookies......

Take a look at this site:
http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html

About halfway down the page, in the "Outside the Yahoo! Network" section,
there is a tiny little (click here) link that lets you opt-out of their
electronic snooping.
<end snip>

Are Yahoo / Hotmail etc.. monitored by the sucurity
services?!!! It's Bush and Blair again!
Please visit:

www.echelonwatch.org

Best wishes,
Richard

  --- Graham Burnett <grahamburnett@...>
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>


<tt>
From another list.....<BR>
<BR>
------Original Message-------<BR>
<BR>
Just thought everyone should know about this.<BR>
<BR>
<snip from another email><BR>
Yahoo is now using something called "Web
Beacons" to track YahooGroups users<BR>
around the net & see what you are doing. ...seems
these beacons work just<BR>
like cookies......<BR>
<BR>
Take a look at this site:<BR>
<a
href="http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html">http://privacy.ya\
hoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html</a><BR>
<BR>
About halfway down the page, in the "Outside the
Yahoo! Network" section,<BR>
there is a tiny little (click here) link that lets you
opt-out of their<BR>
electronic snooping.<BR>
<end snip><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>


<br>
<tt>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>

<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>

</body></html>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Hi there,

I am new to this group, but not entirely new to the ideas of
permaculture.  I am seeking to apply them to my realm of influence --
  my home and yard in Tampa, Florida

  Around my home I am seeking to put in edible and useful plants
which will require a minimum of care.  One common difficulty is that
standard growing instructions are not entirely applicable to
Florida.  Often plants which require full sun in other climates are
burned by direct sun here -- they do better in partial shade.

I am seeking advice for establishing a planting area on the
northside of my house.  This planting area is shady Oct through Feb,
but receives a fair bit of sun in the warmer months when the sun
sets further to the north.

What kinds of edible useful plants are likely to do well in this
location?

Dear Friends,
I am an expert on hydroponics running an organization named
Hydro-Domestic ( I believe every one should grow his/her own vegies
etc. Recently I am busy with rural community project whereby I
suggest to focus on Future Crops. One of the high potential
plant/crop is the Helianthus tuber.
I am looking for source of seeds of this plant and other seeds or
tubers to start a commercial pilot in the rural areas.
Any one that can assist will be highly appreciated.
To the group members free hydroponics advise is granted.
Thanks,
Ben Safronovitz
South africa

Dear Sir:
  Please check out ANDA (www.andainternational.com) and
see how we are trying to reach the same objectives,
which means, sustainable development at community
level by improving native species performance and
therefore income for small landowners, i think you´ll
be specially interest on our partner from france,
commercequitable.com

forest greetings

eDER
--- propolis <propolis@...> wrote:
> Dear guys,
> I am an Hydroponics expert, recently involved with a
> project to grow crops in the rural areas and helping
> the communities to build sustainable and respected
> income.
> I would like to start pilot /trials with various
> future crops and urgently need sources to acquire
> such seeds/tubers.
> Will appreciate assistance from any one who can.
> Ben Safronovitz
> P.S: need advise about Hydroponics? with pleasure.
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

Dear Sir:

It is fundamental, if we are talking about legalizing
timber trade within producers and importers, that two
main objectives can be foreseen: first that a block
must be build among tropical producing countries,
second that this block should fight for a Bann on
temperate and boreal timber products.
Without a strong power of political influence, which
can only be reached by agreement with countries on
similar productive systems, the challenge of taking
out from businees people who constantly sustain their
positions by taking oportunities first arranged for
political miscareness will be hard to.  If all
tropical forested countries can sit together and
measure their forces and weekness for increasing the
awareness on the thema of sustainable forestry, than
we have a strong argument, took from commom sense, for
bitting out those who bett on our own incapacity of
mutal recognition.
Illegal trade is rulled and runned by people who take
advantage of the bitg lapses of time in-between
problem recognition, problem assesment and problem
solving, if this is made separately by each country,
time from the first step to the last is long, allowing
enemies from the governance to act.  If we reduce
this timming than their operations will became
dificult and maybe join the good forest practises can
be seeing as an advantage.
I will take one example that i know pretty well, in
Brazil, our government fights to put certification of
our forests as a main goal, for market reasons. 
I was talking with some chinese companies about the
problem of buying not certified timber, presenting the
problem and talking about bringing certified timber to
our trade operations, of course this would demand
further arrangements, manly on finances, but they
would have total legalized timber.  meanwhile
another company came into the scenario, offering
larger amounts of timber and with no considerations
about certification.  My government cannot have,
or cannot aford to have, a strong policy on allowing
only legal timber to be trade, cause there are many
other countries, like China, that have bigger social
problems and cannot accept international "voluntary"
certification mechanisms.  Because both countries
haven´t yet argued themselves about their procedures
and come up with a solution, the second company is
doing business, while I, who brought up the trade as a
problem, will have to wait some years untill the
procedures are stablish.  Next time i won´t be
talking about it anymore.
This is why for having capability of requiring
whatever it might be from the private sector, first
the governments must go to their own process of
recognition on fundamentals.
Secondly, but even more important, temperate and
boreal forest are responsible for 75% of the timber
traded in the planet, and there is no person that
doesn´t understand the fact that this forest have
lower levels of biodiversity and rotation periods of
average 100 years.  Countries that hold those
forest, however, have a strong political influence on
markets and a well build cooperation when it becames
to be aware of tropical policies.
Tropical forest had been overtaken by agriculture
sector, this has already cause a major rate of
destruction into its ecossystem and a degradation of
life quality, not to mention the obvious increase of
poverty.  People which really intend to provide
room for growing with sustainable development concepts
can not afford to repeat the same mistake done in the
past, when the world population was ignored, since
they could be used for development.
Nowadays the only way for lowering poverty and
conserving nature is to link both.  So, if we do
not allowd forest products from tropical countries,
notably poor ones, to be broader spread all around the
globe, history will again prove that pressure over the
poor is pressure over the nature.  For lowing
down the pressure we should "cut" the percentages of
timber products from nothern rich countries and give a
pice of them to tropical producing countries, whithout
money it is impossible to pay for the environmental
services of the forest.

Forest Greetings


EDER Zanetti


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

Dear Friend,
	 Thanks for the interest you have shown in the work of Plants
for a Future.

	 We would like to invite you to two events coming up in the
next few weeks:

Woodland Weekends 30th Nov/1st Dec. and 14th/15th Dec.
-----------------------------------------------------

Gathering between 10/11 am Saturday for a site tour looking at
nature, management and future plans. The emphasis is on the existing
native woodland, the new woodland planted five years ago,
and the demonstration gardens plantings.

Over these and future weekends we hope to carry out a variety of
projects including rescuing trees, mulching, planting, minimal coppice
and pollarding, deer fence maintenance, Devon hedge creation and
re-establishment, surveys, plant identification and labelling,
and perhaps green-wood creations in the gardens. Content depends
on turn you turning up.

New Plants For A Future Newsletter now out
------------------------------------------

The latest Plants For Newsletter is now out. This 28 page newsletter
has a variety of articles including: Plants for the Woodland Garden
Edge by Ken Fern, The PFAF Quiz to test your plant knowledge,
Tree Bog rules for appropriate sphincter control during the use of
Tree Bogs and the latest news and plans for both sites.

The newsletter should have been sent to all existing members
of Friends of Plants For A Future. If you would like to join
please see
	 http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/friends.html
or reply to this email.
If you are an existing Friend and have not received the newsletter
then please get in touch.

Forthcoming Events
------------------

The Following events are in the pipeline. Dates are yet to be fixed
please email us if your interested.

* Wetland Ecosystems with Biologic Design.
Series of courses based around the
design and implementation of whole site water reticulation in order to
provide quality and quantity to meet demand purely from run off and rain
water harvesting and filtration systems using landscaping and plants.
Swales, ponds, filtration, irrigation, edible and useful plants, and
much more. Starting this winter.

* Woodland Gardening with Stephen Nutt.
Further weekend courses inspired
by Robert Hart and Ken Fern looking at design and implementation of a
woodland garden within an existing woodland: "The Garden of Love" which
is dedicated to the memory of Robert Hart (the pioneer off temperate
'forest gardening'). Taking place from February onwards.

* Green Woodworking With Anthony Waters.
Create spoons, candlesticks,
chairs, stools, benches, tables etc using green wood skills. Planned for
the spring.

* Clay Oven course.
Wow 84 acres of clay and our first clay oven. Help
design and build ovens for the campsite gardens to be used by future
visitors and feast on breads and nuts. March - dates t.b.c.

* PFAF Spring Gathering.
Shaping the Future of Plants For A Future 3.

* Yurt or geodesic dome course
Ideally resulting in the creation of a
geodesic dome or yurt for plants for a future. PFAF desperately need a
portable dismantleable structure for events on site and away. Can you
help??

Latest News
-----------

The last few months have been dedicated to running a series of events
and courses which included:

* Plants For A Futures autumn equinox gathering in September
	 This attracted 30 people from around the country and included
	 a full tour of the demonstration gardens and the whole site;
	 a fence maintenance work party which help to seal off the
	 holes in the dear and rabbit fences; constructing the display
	 tables for the plant sales area and lots of networking
	 and discussions on plants and sustainable living.
	 The next gathering is planned for the spring all welcome.

* Woodland Gardening courses in October
	 The first two weekends in this series of courses were a great
	 success. The idea behind the courses is to go through the
	 whole design and implementation process. The courses focus
	 around an existing 1 Acre patch of existing woodland:
	 "The Garden of Love" which is dedicated to the memory of
	 Robert Hart (the pioneer off temperate 'forest gardening').
	 The courses are being led by Stephen Nutt an excellent tutor
	 with input from plants for a future on interesting plants
	 to uses.

	 The first weekend looked at surveying techniques and mapping
	 out the site including the use of hand made surveying equipment
	 including bunyip's and A-frames.

	 The second weekend looked at more detailed design on
	 chosen areas within the site and selecting plant guilds
	 for these areas.

	 Future courses will include implementation of these areas
	 and further surveying and design work.

* Green Woodworking
	 A windy weekend was spent creating various small and not
	 so small items. The tutor, Anthony Walters, brought
	 along a pole lathe, a couple of shaving horses and a
	 wide selection of woodworking tools. Everyone on the
	 course had a go creating something, from spoons and
	 bowls to tables and a cloche frame. We also looked
	 at an area of woodland and harvested the materials
	 required for the course.

We also had a visit from the Devon Wildlife Trust with much discussion
about the Culm Grassland on site which is an important wildlife habitat.

We now completed our Fey Fund grant period and have had over 200 people
visit this year. Work is now focussing on preparing our revised planning
application due for renewal in June 2003 when our temporary planning
permission expires and preparing next years event program. We will need
lots of letters supporting the project if you interested please complete
the coupon overleaf.

The above may seem that everything is rosy down at Plants For A Future.
However we are just keeping our heads above water and run by a skeleton
staff. We are greatly in need of help financially (some stamps to help
towards the cost of this mailout would be great).

	 We hope to see you down this neck of the woods sometime!

	 With Love

	 All at PFAF

--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:    01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf

----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Morris

To: PCUK ; PC USA

Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:26 PM

Subject: [pfaf] Plants For A Future news and Events Nov 02

Dear Friend,
      Thanks for the interest you have shown in the work of Plants
for a Future.

      We would like to invite you to two events coming up in the
next few weeks:

Woodland Weekends 30th Nov/1st Dec. and 14th/15th Dec.
-----------------------------------------------------

Gathering between 10/11 am Saturday for a site tour looking at
nature, management and future plans. The emphasis is on the existing
native woodland, the new woodland planted five years ago,
and the demonstration gardens plantings.

Over these and future weekends we hope to carry out a variety of
projects including rescuing trees, mulching, planting, minimal coppice
and pollarding, deer fence maintenance, Devon hedge creation and
re-establishment, surveys, plant identification and labelling,
and perhaps green-wood creations in the gardens. Content depends
on turn you turning up.

New Plants For A Future Newsletter now out
------------------------------------------

The latest Plants For Newsletter is now out. This 28 page newsletter
has a variety of articles including: Plants for the Woodland Garden
Edge by Ken Fern, The PFAF Quiz to test your plant knowledge,
Tree Bog rules for appropriate sphincter control during the use of
Tree Bogs and the latest news and plans for both sites.

The newsletter should have been sent to all existing members
of Friends of Plants For A Future. If you would like to join
please see
      http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/friends.html
or reply to this email.
If you are an existing Friend and have not received the newsletter
then please get in touch.

Forthcoming Events
------------------

The Following events are in the pipeline. Dates are yet to be fixed
please email us if your interested.

* Wetland Ecosystems with Biologic Design.
Series of courses based around the
design and implementation of whole site water reticulation in order to
provide quality and quantity to meet demand purely from run off and rain
water harvesting and filtration systems using landscaping and plants.
Swales, ponds, filtration, irrigation, edible and useful plants, and
much more. Starting this winter.

* Woodland Gardening with Stephen Nutt.
Further weekend courses inspired
by Robert Hart and Ken Fern looking at design and implementation of a
woodland garden within an existing woodland: "The Garden of Love" which
is dedicated to the memory of Robert Hart (the pioneer off temperate
'forest gardening'). Taking place from February onwards.

* Green Woodworking With Anthony Waters.
Create spoons, candlesticks,
chairs, stools, benches, tables etc using green wood skills. Planned for
the spring.

* Clay Oven course.
Wow 84 acres of clay and our first clay oven. Help
design and build ovens for the campsite gardens to be used by future
visitors and feast on breads and nuts. March - dates t.b.c.

* PFAF Spring Gathering.
Shaping the Future of Plants For A Future 3.

* Yurt or geodesic dome course
Ideally resulting in the creation of a
geodesic dome or yurt for plants for a future. PFAF desperately need a
portable dismantleable structure for events on site and away. Can you
help??

Latest News
-----------

The last few months have been dedicated to running a series of events
and courses which included:

* Plants For A Futures autumn equinox gathering in September
      This attracted 30 people from around the country and included
      a full tour of the demonstration gardens and the whole site;
      a fence maintenance work party which help to seal off the
      holes in the dear and rabbit fences; constructing the display
      tables for the plant sales area and lots of networking
      and discussions on plants and sustainable living.
      The next gathering is planned for the spring all welcome.

* Woodland Gardening courses in October
      The first two weekends in this series of courses were a great
      success. The idea behind the courses is to go through the
      whole design and implementation process. The courses focus
      around an existing 1 Acre patch of existing woodland:
      "The Garden of Love" which is dedicated to the memory of
      Robert Hart (the pioneer off temperate 'forest gardening').
      The courses are being led by Stephen Nutt an excellent tutor
      with input from plants for a future on interesting plants
      to uses.
     
      The first weekend looked at surveying techniques and mapping
      out the site including the use of hand made surveying equipment
      including bunyip's and A-frames.
     
      The second weekend looked at more detailed design on
      chosen areas within the site and selecting plant guilds
      for these areas.

      Future courses will include implementation of these areas
      and further surveying and design work.

* Green Woodworking
      A windy weekend was spent creating various small and not
      so small items. The tutor, Anthony Walters, brought
      along a pole lathe, a couple of shaving horses and a
      wide selection of woodworking tools. Everyone on the
      course had a go creating something, from spoons and
      bowls to tables and a cloche frame. We also looked
      at an area of woodland and harvested the materials
      required for the course.

We also had a visit from the Devon Wildlife Trust with much discussion
about the Culm Grassland on site which is an important wildlife habitat.

We now completed our Fey Fund grant period and have had over 200 people
visit this year. Work is now focussing on preparing our revised planning
application due for renewal in June 2003 when our temporary planning
permission expires and preparing next years event program. We will need
lots of letters supporting the project if you interested please complete
the coupon overleaf.

The above may seem that everything is rosy down at Plants For A Future.
However we are just keeping our heads above water and run by a skeleton
staff. We are greatly in need of help financially (some stamps to help
towards the cost of this mailout would be great).

      We hope to see you down this neck of the woods sometime!

      With Love

      All at PFAF

--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:         01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719     
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf



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--- In pfaf@y..., "propolis" <propolis@i...> wrote:
> How can I get the newsletter?
> Best Rgds,
> Ben Safronovitz

Hi,
     The best way to get the newsletter is by joining friends of
Plants For A Future you can do this at
http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/friends.html
You can also join by sending your subscription
	 £10 - standard membership
	 £15 - overseas
     	 £6 - low income
     	 £25 - Supporting Membership. For those who want to help a little
bit more.      £150 - life membership
To PFAF, Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF, England

When we receive your subscriptions we will send out a copy
of the newsletter.

After about a year we may make the newsletter
publically available on the website or in the files section
of this group.

            All the best

--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:    01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf

Thought this might be of interest.

> Mehmet Uludogan (mehmetuludogan@... ) added the comment:
>
> hello
> we have two types of crataegea in Turkey the endemic plant C.Dikmensis ,
> and C.tanacetifolia both of them are very delicious fruits . last year I saw
another type of Cratagea plant in İstanbul
> the flowers of the plants were magnifecent , but their fruits were inedible
..I will be very pleased to have seeds of different kinds of edible type of this
plant , I can send the seeds of the Turkish type of the plant
> thank you for your cooperation
> greetings from İstanbul Turkey
> İstanbul, Turkey

	 Rich
--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:    01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf

Nobody wrote:
>
> Maarten Warndorff (maarten.warndorff@...) added the comment:
>
> I attach a site which contains a number of links to good sources of
> information on Chinese Yam.
> Having looked at many sites, it appears there is quite some confusion
> about the names. I am not sure if D.esculenta is a synonym for D. batatas.
> Nor is it clear to me whether the D batatas or D opposita which is the one
> used for medicinal purposes in China is also the same as the variety
> used for culinary purposes in China.
> Thank you for your excellent website and thorough information (though I did
> not yet find the answer to my question...).<P>Link: <a
href="http://www.ahs.cqu.edu.au/info/science/psg/AsianVeg/Yam.htm">the Plant
Sciences Group of Central Queensland Universit</a> </P>

--
p.s. Can I take this opportunity to encourage to you to join our
friends of Plants For A Future membership scheme. Membership is only
£10 a year (£15 overseas) and we are trying to recruit 1000 friends
in the coming year. If we can reach this target then we will be
able to secure the land for our demonstration gardens and visitors
centre in Devon which could become a shining example of woodland
gardening, sustainability, and the use of perennial plants.
See http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/friends.html for details.

--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:    01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf

Here's my latest article- hope it's useful!

http://www.gb0063551.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/cherryplum/cherryplumtable.htm

Cheers Graham

Forgive the cross post, but I've updated the Land & Liberty website today,
got some new stuff on there, including some new articles, the
'Treesponsibility' book plus a colour version of my 'Permaculture manadala'
poster...

Have a look if you feel like doing some consuming and making me a rich man
(arf ),

www.landandliberty.co.uk

Eco-Logic have a snazzy new website- worth a visit to
http://www.eco-logicbooks.com/

Cheers Graham
www.landandliberty.co.uk

Seedy Business- a history of allotmenting in Brighton by Warren Carter of
Moulscombe Forest Garden & Wildlife project
http://www.seedybusiness.org/page0.shtml

Dear Friend,

Thanks for the interest you have shown in the work of Plants for a
Future. Below you'll find the latest news from the project and an update
on activities on the year to come which mainly focus around preparing
the site for a new round of planning applications.

2002 News Round Up

The last year has been dedicated to running a series of events and
courses at our Education Centre at Blagdon Cross in North Devon. A large
number gatherings, tours and courses were organized and over 200 people
visited the site.

Shaping the Future of Plants For A Future - April 6th/7th

The year kicked off with this event designed to bring everyone
interested in helping us in the future together. It was a great success
and attracted 45 people from around the region. It featured a site tour
with a wheelbarrow picnic. A number of trees were donated and planted,
including; Walnut, Fig, Dogwood and Plum. A large stretch of long
overdue fencing maintenance was carried out - just a few miles to go.
Volunteers also helped reclaim a kitchen garden and built a rustic
retreat shower facility. Quite a few new faces with ideas and enthusiasm
are becoming involved with the project including Mat who's especially
interested in researching medicinal plants.

Buddhafield Mens Retreat - May 31st - June 8th

An event hosted in collaboration with the Buddhafield group. This was a
meditation and working retreat which had a strong plant nature based
focus.

South West Permaculture Convergence - June 29 - 30th

This attracted people from all round the region many of whom also have
their own interesting projects and a lot of time was spent exchanging
experiences over cups of tea. Sunday morning saw the arrival of three
special visitors: three cows from a neighbouring field. A few of us then
had the task of herding the cows away from all the delicious plants in
the demonstration gardens and back to their own field of grass, luckily
the cows seemed to know the way home. One major achievement was that we
managed to obtain water self sufficiency for the Convergence: all the
water used at the convergence was collected from the roof of a mobile
home, filtered through a British Berkfield ceramic water filter (give us
a ring if your interested in getting one) and stored. We managed to
filter and store enough water to last the whole gathering.

Autumn equinox Gathering - Sept 20th - 23rd

This attracted 30 people from around the country and included a full
tour of the demonstration gardens and the whole site; a fence
maintenance work party which help to seal off the holes in the dear and
rabbit fences; constructing the display tables for the plant sales area
and lots of networking and discussions on plants and sustainable living.

Woodland Gardening Courses - Oct 5th/6th and Oct 26th/27th

The first two weekends in this series of courses, held in October, were
a great success. The idea behind the courses is to go through the whole
design and implementation process. The courses focus around an existing
1-Acre patch of existing woodland: "The Garden of Love" which is
dedicated to the memory of Robert Hart (the pioneer off temperate
'forest gardening'). The courses are being led by Stephen Nutt an
excellent tutor with input from plants for a future on interesting
plants to uses. The first weekend looked at surveying techniques and
mapping out the site including the use of hand made surveying equipment
including bunyip's and A-frames. The second weekend looked at more
detailed design on chosen areas within the site and selecting plant
guilds for these areas. Future courses will include implementation of
these areas and further surveying and design work.

Green Woodworking - Oct 15th/16th

A windy weekend was spent creating various small and not so small items.
The tutor, Anthony Walters, brought along a pole lathe, a couple of
shaving horses and a wide selection of woodworking tools. Everyone on
the course had a go creating something, from spoons and bowls to tables
and a cloche frame. We also looked at an area of woodland and harvested
the materials required for the course.

Woodland Working Weekends - Nov 30th/Dec 1st and Dec 14th/15th

These two weekends were held in December and featured a number of
activities, including tree felling, construction of a crooked woodshed
and weaving the sides of our treebog.

We also had a visit from the Devon Wildlife Trust (15/9/02) with much
discussion about the Culm Grassland on site, which is an important
wildlife habitat. The Bristol Permaculture Groups (31/3/02) and a
permaculture course from Exeter (7/3/02), also came along for site
tours.

All visitors to site have been given welcome packs, including visitors
record sheets and the Plants For A Future Quiz. The quiz was designed to
help people learn about useful plants. Visitors they could use all the
information in the visitors centre to help them find the answers to some
of the tricky questions. The visitors centre is packed with information
including all 40 PFAF leaflets and a well stocked library. We've been
busy creating new leaflets including the PFAF Virtual Catalogue - with
concise information on 200 of our favourite plants and a new leaflet by
Ken on Plants for a Woodland Edge.

We have now completed our Fey Fund grant period and have had over 200
people visit in the last year. We received a grant from the Devon and
West Somerset Key Fund for £25,000 in October 2001; this was towards
capital costs at our Blagdon site and the setting up of a
training/volunteer program. This grant enabled us to buy lots of tools
and safety equipment for volunteers that were a major contribution to
making the years events a success. It also paid for the construction of
our new site entrance and the purchase of a 12-ton digger necessary for
the construction of our car park and lake.

Work is now focussing on preparing our revised planning application due
for renewal in June 2003 when our temporary planning permission expires.
A lot of major construction work is needed and the site needs a major
spring clean and tidy up. We will need lots of letters supporting the
project if you interested please complete the coupon overleaf. We will
also need a lot of help in doing all the work necessary for getting the
site in shape. We are planning a moth long site spring clean in
April/May and need all the help we can get on site so that the it will
look really good and show the benefits of woodland gardening and
sustainable living.

Shows and exhibitions

Celebration of Cornish Gardening - May 1st - 4th

We attended this show at Trelissick Gardens near Truro. Our portable
potted garden of unusual edible plants was displayed as well as our full
set of leaflets and display board with photos and details of 50 plants.

Halwil Junction Mind Body and Spirit Fair - May 24th/25th

Another stall held 5 miles from the Blagdon site. This help greatly in
building local relations. This also was the appearance of Ann who has
help greatly with the demonstration beds.

We also had stalls at Wadebridge Green Fair - April 13th Falmouth Green
Fair - July 6th The Natural Heath and Healing Show, RHS Rosemore.

Henry Doubleday Research Association - AGM - Nov 22nd

Ken was invited to join the panel in an Organic Gardeners Question Time
event at their AGM and we also held a stall there. At first the
questions centred around normal organic growing, but towards the end of
the session the questions turned more towards permaculture and
alternative plants and Ken was in full form giving details of
alternative root crops. After the talk demand for our publications was
so great that we nearly ran out of all our stock. This was probably our
most successful stall of the year.

The Field in Cornwall

A Benassi Horizontal Sythe mower was bought for the Field. We think this
is a lot more friendly to little critters than rotary mowers as the
horizontal action makes a clean cut and allows the creatures to jump
free rather than being spun about inside a rotary mower. Its also a much
better tool for cutting through long undergrowth and can easily cut
through anything up to waist height, the only time it has failed was on
a large patch of brambles. On the first day we managed to clear all the
very overgrown paths on site using the mower at walking pace. The only
thing to watch is that all the nuts are good and tight, trying to find a
lost nut in a 20 acre site is not an activity to be recommended!
Maintenance is essential: as we recently got the mower serviced and a
bag
full of grass was removed.

We are sorry to see the departure of Frank. Frank spent a year and a
half at the Field in Cornwall and had been a great help in maintaining
that site and added a lot of good energy. Frank is a shining example of
living in the Plants For A Future way, with a varied diet of many of the
plant that we advocate, and he thrived on the products from the field
even in the lean winter months (see our winter salad leaflet for detail
of this). He is a great plant enthusiast and experimented with growing
many interesting plants in a woodland gardening situation. Frank is now
planning to set up his own project on Portugal where Holm oaks grow,
(their acorns contain very little tannin and make an excellent
substitute for wheat flour). We hope that we will be able to collaborate
in the future and wish him all the best in the future.

Other News The first round of loanstock also became due this year. We
have been amazed by the generosity of many of our loanstock holders,
many of whom extended their loans or converted them to donations. This
took much of the financial pressure off the charity and the future of
Blagdon now looks financially more secure. It has also allowed us to buy
a much need nature friendly grass cutter for the Field in Cornwall.

Work is now progressing on the PFAF CD-ROM which will contain an easy to
use version of the database and over 1,000 pictures. We recently got a
slide scanner in the January sales and the pictures are being scanned at
a cracking pace.

As ever the website attracts a lot of interest with 30,000 hits a week
and 7,000 unique hosts a week. New additions include a photo album, and
a ten page report about PFAF which formed part of an MSc dissertation in
Holistic agriculture. See
	 http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/photos/album/index.html
	 http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/relations/LizTurner.html
for these.

New Trustees needed

Two of our trustees recently resigned and we now need to recruit some
more. If you interested in shaping the future of the charity and willing
to take on the responsibility then please get in touch.

New Plants For A Future Newsletter now out

The latest Plants For Newsletter is now out. This 28 page newsletter has
a variety of articles including: Plants for the Woodland Garden Edge by
Ken Fern, The PFAF Quiz to test your plant knowledge, Tree Bog rules for
appropriate sphincter control during the use of Tree Bogs and the latest
news and plans for both sites.

The newsletter should have been sent to all existing members of Friends
of Plants For A Future. If you would like to join please see
	 http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/friends.html
If you are an existing Friend and have not received the newsletter
then please get in touch.

Forthcoming Events

The immediate focus is in getting the site prepare for planning
permission. We are planning a month long spring clean event in
April/May. Once this has been achieve we can begin looking at hosting
other events which may include: Wetland Ecosystems design and
implementation, Woodland Gardening, Green Woodworking, Clay Oven course,
Yurt or geodesic dome course.

The above may seem that everything is rosy down at Plants For A Future.
However we are just keeping our heads above water and run by a skeleton
staff. We are greatly in need of help financially (some stamps to help
towards the cost of this mailout would be great).

We hope to see you down this neck of the woods sometime!

With Love

All at PFAF

--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:    01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf

I am wondering what the comensurate USDA zone would be for the
climate in Cornwall.

Interesting article;
http://www.allotmentforestry.com/trad.htm

Dear Friend

Some climatic zone charts show us as being in zone 9, others place us in
zone 8. Since these zones are based more on minimum winter temperatures than
anything else, perhaps a few details of our weather type might be of use to
you.

  We have a generally mild maritime climate - mild winters where the
temperature rarely falls below -5ºc, but relatively cool summers with
temperatures rarely exceeding 25ºc and usually rather below that figure. We
get quite a lot of rain, around 1000mm spread fairly evenly through the year
with slightly more in the winter months than in the summer. We can also get
very variable weather with periods of very mild weather in the winter
(daytime temperatures around 10ºc, night times down to about 5ºc)
interspersed with usually short periods of much colder weather (daytime
around 3 to 6ºc, night times around 0ºc occasionally going as low as -5ºc).
We also get a lot of wind, which can be very strong with gusts in excess of
120 kilometres per hour. The wind is mainly quite mild, blowing off the
Atlantic Ocean, though sometimes very cold when it comes down from the polar
regions. We also have quite low sunshine figures, especially in the winter
when we can go many days without seeing the sun.

With our mild winters, we are able to grow a wider range of plants here than
in most of Europe. However, due to the cooler summers and relative lack of
sunshine, plants are not always able to fully ripen their wood and so we can
get a lot of die-back of certain tree and shrub species in the winter.

I hope the above is of use to you. Please write to me if you require more
detailed weather figures.

Ken Fern

----- Original Message -----
From: <ch_shanks@...>
To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:58 PM
Subject: [pfaf] Comensurate temperature zones?


> I am wondering what the comensurate USDA zone would be for the
> climate in Cornwall.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I grew a Yam Bean (Pachyrizus erosus) indoors in a large pot last year. It
didn't show any sign of flowering. I left it as long as possible before
harvesting as I know it needs a long season to produce its edible tubers. I
finally decided to harvest today as the top growth was almost dead and found
that it had produced a respectable sized tuber about 3 inches across with a
couple of small tubers in addition. My questions are a) does anybody know
whether you can propagate from tubers ( I have read that it is normally
propagated by seed). The PFAF site says you can. Can I just replant - can the
tubers be stored like potatoes? b)what is the best way to eat it??

Best regards

Steve Barstow, Trondheim, Norway

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Founder of the Movement for Compassionate Living, author of the inspiring
book 'Abundant Living in the Coming Age of the Tree' and early vegan pioneer
Kathleen Jannaway very sadly died earlier today.

From the MCL website;
http://www.mclveganway.org.uk/

"We are sad to announce that Kathleen Jannaway,
co-founder of MCL and former secretary of the Vegan Society (UK),
passed away peacefully in her sleep early on 27 January 2003, in her local
cottage hospital."

best wishes to all, Graham

I'd just like to add a few thoughts:

Kathleen was a big supporter of PFAF and our work and has helped us
through some difficult times.

We can certainly say that she and the MCL have been a big influence
on the ethics behind pfaf. The plant and tree based focus behind MCL
is something we beleive to be very valuable.

I personally never met Kathleen but others in the project have
and talk about her with high regard.

A long time ago before I had ever heard about Plants For A Future
and just after I became a Vegan I found the MCL's booklets and they
were a great infulence on me. I particularly remember the poster
of the tree and all its uses.

I'd like to think that PFAF will help keep the sprit of Katheleens
work alive.

	 Rich

Graham Burnett wrote:
>
> Founder of the Movement for Compassionate Living, author of the inspiring
> book 'Abundant Living in the Coming Age of the Tree' and early vegan pioneer
> Kathleen Jannaway very sadly died earlier today.
>
> >From the MCL website;
> http://www.mclveganway.org.uk/
>
> "We are sad to announce that Kathleen Jannaway,
> co-founder of MCL and former secretary of the Vegan Society (UK),
> passed away peacefully in her sleep early on 27 January 2003, in her local
> cottage hospital."
>
> best wishes to all, Graham
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
p.s. Can I take this opportunity to encourage to you to join our
friends of Plants For A Future membership scheme. Membership is only
£10 a year (£15 overseas) and we are trying to recruit 1000 friends
in the coming year. If we can reach this target then we will be
able to secure the land for our demonstration gardens and visitors
centre in Devon which could become a shining example of woodland
gardening, sustainability, and the use of perennial plants.
See http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/friends.html for details.

--
Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
Web:       http://www.pfaf.org/  :=  http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
Snail:     Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon, EX21 5DF
Tel:    01208 872 963 / 0845 458 4719
Email:     webmaster@...
PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf