I have chatted with Despina, who supposedly talked to Dr. Cartwright.
No luck.

Anne Frances Goldwater has suggested Dr. Worenklein (Montreal) who
was a great help in my case.

By the way, Reena Sommers in Winnipeg did the Gardner course. I know
her a bit from other things, but I think she would be good too.

I will keep these names and let people know when they come up.

Many thanks.

Pearl Maluzynsky wrote:
>
> Dear Brian:
>
> I don't know of any in Ontario, that's not to say there aren't any.
> Here are some in Calgary and Edmonton (Alberta,CANADA), one of these
> psychologists should be able to provide you with a name of one of
> their peers in eastern Canada.
>
> Edmonton:
>
>            Dr. Carol Chandler
>            Dr. Eileen Baril
>            Dr. Brian Hindmarch
> Calgary:
>            Dr. Larry Fong
>            Dr. John Amundson
>
> On a little bit of a different note, there is a new kind of therapy
> being practised by some psychologists. It is called "Closed Therapy".
> Both adults involved in custody battles attend the psychologist
> together and undergo therapy to try and resolve all of the issues
> surrounding the children. i.e. Parenting Plan. It may sound like
> mediation but it is not, it is a therapeutic environment designed
> with
> the best interest of the child in mind at all times.  When entering
> this type of therapy all information is confidential and the
> psychologist can not be made to go to court. The reason for this is
> that if both parties are not afraid, that whatever they say may be
> used against them in court they are more likely to be open and
> honest.
> This allows the psychologist to get to the root of the problem in
> order to solve the conflicts.
>
> I only know of one in a hamlet close to Edmonton, but I'm sure she
> would be happy to provide the names of others.
>
>                   Dr. Linda Keep
>                   The Psychology Centre
>                   Sherwood Park, AB
>
> You may also wish to contact the psychologist you has this discussion
> group at Mcgill University. His name is Despina Vassiliou and his
> email address is: dvassi@....
>
> He may have knowledge of other Psychologists that specialize in PAS.
>
> I hope I have been of help to you.
>
> Peace Love and Happiness
> Pearl
>
> --- In painmcgill@egroups.com, Brian Jenkins <bjenkins@g...> wrote:
> > Hi. I am the work on the website for FACT ( http://www.fact.on.ca
> ),
> > which has a fairly good selection of PAS papers as a worldwide
> > resource.
> >
> > I have been separated for 6 years now. I have two children,
> > a daughter, now 15, who is severely alienated and has not
> > come to access for about 5 years now. I have a son, now 11,
> > who was also being threatened to be alienated. I just got through
> > an almost trial over the chopping back of my time (was about 40%)
> >  with my son and the complete severing of all information to my
> > daughter, as recommended by a [explictative deleted] psychologist
> > in Toronto. I have the info for my daughter still and an equal
> > parenting type agreement with my son -- about the best a father
> > in Ontario can seem to hope for. It still cost a huge amount of
> > money.
> >
> > I was interested in your comment about resources. Our group has
> > never found either a PAS psychologist or a lawyer in Toronto.
> > Certainly if you have some to recommend, I would love to know who.
> > I used resources from Montreal.
> >
> > Actually, if you have people anywhere in Canada, I would love to
> > know. We have a few scattered people we know of, and a huge number
> > of messages for people looking for such resources.
> >
> > Pearl Maluzynsky wrote:
> > > be considred an expert on PAS by their peers. I have a few
> favorite
> > > psychologists in Alberta and a few favorite lawyers, if you would
> > > like
> > > me to recommend one to you. It is more than likely that you will
> end
> >
> > --
> > Brian Jenkins
> > bjenkins@g...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free, Unlimited Calls Anywhere!
> Visit Firetalk.com - click below.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5479/3/_/759017/_/962467021/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   painmcgill@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: painmcgill-unsubscribe@eGroups.com

--
Brian Jenkins
bjenkins@...

Dear Brian:

I don't know of any in Ontario, that's not to say there aren't any.
Here are some in Calgary and Edmonton (Alberta,CANADA), one of these
psychologists should be able to provide you with a name of one of
their peers in eastern Canada.

Edmonton:

            Dr. Carol Chandler
            Dr. Eileen Baril
            Dr. Brian Hindmarch
Calgary:
            Dr. Larry Fong
            Dr. John Amundson

On a little bit of a different note, there is a new kind of therapy
being practised by some psychologists. It is called "Closed Therapy".
Both adults involved in custody battles attend the psychologist
together and undergo therapy to try and resolve all of the issues
surrounding the children. i.e. Parenting Plan. It may sound like
mediation but it is not, it is a therapeutic environment designed
with
the best interest of the child in mind at all times.  When entering
this type of therapy all information is confidential and the
psychologist can not be made to go to court. The reason for this is
that if both parties are not afraid, that whatever they say may be
used against them in court they are more likely to be open and
honest.
This allows the psychologist to get to the root of the problem in
order to solve the conflicts.

I only know of one in a hamlet close to Edmonton, but I'm sure she
would be happy to provide the names of others.

                   Dr. Linda Keep
                   The Psychology Centre
                   Sherwood Park, AB

You may also wish to contact the psychologist you has this discussion
group at Mcgill University. His name is Despina Vassiliou and his
email address is: dvassi@....

He may have knowledge of other Psychologists that specialize in PAS.


I hope I have been of help to you.

Peace Love and Happiness
Pearl


--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, Brian Jenkins <bjenkins@g...> wrote:
> Hi. I am the work on the website for FACT ( http://www.fact.on.ca
),
> which has a fairly good selection of PAS papers as a worldwide
> resource.
>
> I have been separated for 6 years now. I have two children,
> a daughter, now 15, who is severely alienated and has not
> come to access for about 5 years now. I have a son, now 11,
> who was also being threatened to be alienated. I just got through
> an almost trial over the chopping back of my time (was about 40%)
>  with my son and the complete severing of all information to my
> daughter, as recommended by a [explictative deleted] psychologist
> in Toronto. I have the info for my daughter still and an equal
> parenting type agreement with my son -- about the best a father
> in Ontario can seem to hope for. It still cost a huge amount of
> money.
>
> I was interested in your comment about resources. Our group has
> never found either a PAS psychologist or a lawyer in Toronto.
> Certainly if you have some to recommend, I would love to know who.
> I used resources from Montreal.
>
> Actually, if you have people anywhere in Canada, I would love to
> know. We have a few scattered people we know of, and a huge number
> of messages for people looking for such resources.
>
> Pearl Maluzynsky wrote:
> > be considred an expert on PAS by their peers. I have a few
favorite
> > psychologists in Alberta and a few favorite lawyers, if you would
> > like
> > me to recommend one to you. It is more than likely that you will
end
>
> --
> Brian Jenkins
> bjenkins@g...

Hi. I am the work on the website for FACT ( http://www.fact.on.ca ),
which has a fairly good selection of PAS papers as a worldwide
resource.

I have been separated for 6 years now. I have two children,
a daughter, now 15, who is severely alienated and has not
come to access for about 5 years now. I have a son, now 11,
who was also being threatened to be alienated. I just got through
an almost trial over the chopping back of my time (was about 40%)
  with my son and the complete severing of all information to my
daughter, as recommended by a [explictative deleted] psychologist
in Toronto. I have the info for my daughter still and an equal
parenting type agreement with my son -- about the best a father
in Ontario can seem to hope for. It still cost a huge amount of
money.

I was interested in your comment about resources. Our group has
never found either a PAS psychologist or a lawyer in Toronto.
Certainly if you have some to recommend, I would love to know who.
I used resources from Montreal.

Actually, if you have people anywhere in Canada, I would love to
know. We have a few scattered people we know of, and a huge number
of messages for people looking for such resources.

Pearl Maluzynsky wrote:
> be considred an expert on PAS by their peers. I have a few favorite
> psychologists in Alberta and a few favorite lawyers, if you would
> like
> me to recommend one to you. It is more than likely that you will end

--
Brian Jenkins
bjenkins@...

This is for no one in particular, but for everyone.

Handwritting Analysis is a tool that is recognized in USA,
unfortunately it is not readily used in Canada. I am not aware of
what
weight it holds in other Countrys. This is certainly something worth
exploring with your lawyer As it is able to determine liars,
psycopathic tendencies etc.

Pearl

Dear Colleen:

Wow! You certainly have a big mess on your hands. In my opinion you
should pursue access and getting an access enforcement order.Having
said that it is also necessary for the entire family to see a
psychologist. Pursuing custody is one of the ugliest battles you will
see. It is full of hatred, false accusations, and lies. The risk is
that any parental alienation that is occuring will most likely get
worse.Your family needs to be strong together in order to go through
this experience. Your marriage has to be even stronger. As the "new"
wife and "wicked" stepmother you yourself need to be prepared to be
attacked and have your character shredded to pieces. I don't want to
scare you, but you must prepare for the worst and pray for the best.
In fact, your husband should be the one doing most of the leg work on
this. If his ex-wife gets wind that you are helping, she will
probably
view you as the leader and the reason she has to go through all of
this.She will get a "Things were fine until she came along" kind of
attittude. The Grandparents that you speak of do have rights in
Alberta and I would suggest that they get the same lawyer as you.
No matter what the outcome is you must insist on all of the children
with her and the son with you be seen by a qualified child
psychologist that is considered to be an expert in the field of
parental alienation. I don't just mean a lot of fancy documents
listing how many times they hve testified in court. I mean they must
be considred an expert on PAS by their peers. I have a few favorite
psychologists in Alberta and a few favorite lawyers, if you would
like
me to recommend one to you. It is more than likely that you will end
up having to participate in a home assessment. In this area I caution
you again. I do have a few favorites, but I also have a few "no ways".
If and when you get to that point you can write me again and I can
help you out with that path.

As for my experience, it certainly has turned out horribly for me as
an adult. I am now what you can call an orphan. As a child my mother
would tell me what an lazy, two-timing, alchoholic, sob he was. She
would tell me about the numerous affairs he had, how he beat her,
tried to kill her with a gun, and tried to strangle her. She didn't
stop there, she let me know that everyone in his family was painted
with the same brush, and infact she went so far as to say everyone
from his ethnic background was the same. Well you can imagine my
shame. I hated when anyone asked me about my family or ethnic origin.
I hated when I had to explain why my last name was different than my
mothers. My mother remarried when I was 10 and from that point on I
started lying about my ethnic background and assumed that of my step
fathers. My mother encouraged this. When I was 11 or 12, she asked us
if we wanted to be adopted by my stepfather. Well after all she told
us, who wouldn't. I've come to learn that that was just another
alienation ploy. After that the access visits just dwindled away.
When
I was 16 I refused to see him anymore and at 18 I gave him a piece of
my mind on the telephone.About an hours worth of screaming. (I had
never said anything before, because I was scared to death of him, my
mother made sure of that)(I believe this was her way of keeping it a
secret, so that noone knew whatshe was doing.) I always wondered what
happened to the visits, and why didn't he want to see me anymore? I
figured that he liked his new family better and that he must of hated
daughters. I always thought he was nicer to my brother and his two
stepsons. Now looking back, I think I was probably very difficult to
get to know or to love. I was always angry at him and acted out in
other ways to show this. The alienation was so good that it took me
until I was 32 to realize how controlling my mother was of me and my
thoughts of my father. In wasn't until I was 32 and had removed my
mother from my life entirely that I came to realize this. I have had
a
lot of therapy over the years. The alienation left me with no
selfesteem, no selfworth, and feeling unworthy of love from anyone.
During all of the alienation my mother made sure I didn't spend
anytime with my extended family on my fathers side. After that fight
with him on the phone when I was eighteen, I would have probably
never
talked to him again if it wasn't for his mother. I was 26 years old
and had a beautiful daughter that my father nor none of his family
had
seen. When my grandmother was on her death bed when I received a
request that she wanted to meet her great-grandaughter. I couldn't
refuse a dying woman her last wish and went to the hospital with my
daughter. My father was there and met my daughter for the first time.
From that point on contact was very little and it felt like talking
to
a stranger that i really didn't care much for. I have made a big
effort to try an establish some kind of relationship, but my heart
feels no love for him, nor hatred. At times I have felt more love in
my heart for a complete stranger. He has told me he loves me and I
have never been able to say it back. A part of me still feels that
not
in my stomach from when I was a little girl, perhaps because I felt
he
had abandoned me and to some extent I still feel the abandonement as
a
result of some of his behaviours. I'm still waiting for the birthday
card he supposedly sent in May, I guess it must be with the birthday
card he said he sent me in My last year.  Another side effect of
thinking you are unwanted and unloved by your father, is looking for
love in all the wrong places and usually when you are far to young to
know what it really means. As life goes on I don't think I will
continue to have a relationship with my father, the little
dissapointments still hurt too much. I know I will never see my
mother
again. Dr Gardner reports that obssessed alienators most often have
another psychological order, and in my mothers case I believe this to
be true. I believe she suffers from borderline personality disorder
and as a result she tried to use the same types of alienating
behaviour with my children and with my extended family. In other
words
she started treating me just like she treated my father.

I have shared all of this with you, because it is my hope that you
and
other parents like you "NEVER" give up on your children. Send
presents
and cards "on time", never miss a birthday, christmas or any other
milestone in their lives. Call everyday if you can. Tell them that
you
love them each and every time you see them or talk to them. Hold
them,
hug them, kiss them and cuddle with them. Let them know they are the
most important people in your lifes.  Never talk bad about the other
parent,and remember children will listen through closed doors. Never
answer questions that start with Mom/Dad wants to know?. Let them
know
that those are grownup issues and you are the grown up so you will
talk to mom/dad about whatever it is, and not to worry about getting
into trouble for it.

Reassure them that no matter what you will always be there for them.
Give them your phone number and encourage them to call you. (Even if
they have to sneak the call or call collect.) Write letters to them
and send them pictures, keep copies so if they never get the letters
and there is a "one day". That day will be filled with "SHMILY'S"
(See
How Much I Love You). Follow up with their schools and get their
report cards. Go to parent/teacher interviews. You should have access
to their records and most teachers will be accomodating to see you at
a different time from the other parent. When they are with you take
lots and lots of pictures. Kids like to do "remember when".

I hope I have helped you, please let me know if you would like more
clarity on anything. If you ever need anymore help please feel free
to
write me at Pearl.M@....

Peace Love and Happiness
Pearl
P.S. The email that you sent directly to me was received, but only
after I read your letter in the discussion group.


--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, "Colleen & Jake Bijl" <cjbijl@d...>
wrote:
> Pearl I am sending this message to egroups. Your address does not
seem to be working.
>
> thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Colleen & Jake Bijl
> To: Pearl.M@h...
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 7:12 PM
> Subject: Parental Alienation
>
>
> Hello Pearl,
>
> I saw your posting saying that you an adult survivor of PAS. Do you
now get along with your other parent and if so how did that happen.
The reason I'm asking is I need some insight into the problem I am
married to a man who has not seen his children in three years, we
send
them cards and gifts but no response. Their mother says they don't
want to see him. He has an access order that is very defined. They
live in BC and we live in Alberta. I am currently asking to see his
youngest in August she is twelve. According to the access agreement
we
can see her one week in August and one week in July. She is supposed
to do one half of the driving if she refuses we are going to get the
access order enforced. There are new laws regarding this in Canada
now
as of April 14th, after reading the divorce papers and her letters I
am convinced these children are victims of PAS. The two oldest are
over 18 and we cannot do anything to force them to see us. I want to
know how you would wish this to be handled when you were a little
girl
how did you feel about seeing the alienated parent, did you wish they
would demand to see you. Did you really hate them or did you feel
hurt
and rejected. I can't believe that for a minute that those kids at
ages nine, fourteen and sixteen made lifelong decisions not to see
their father again. I know that him and his daughter had a very close
relationship before the divorce. We also have one of his son's with
us
he is now fifteen he was the only one who couldn't accept things at
face value so she told him to leave and go live with his father he
was
only ten. This is the kind of vengeful woman we are dealing with
after
she moved to BC she refused to allow him to come and visit his
brothers and sister for two years because she says he took his
father's side. Now he is terrified to say anything when he is around
them. I am really anxious to hear how it was for you, and if you
think
forcing access is a good idea. She cannot say he is a bad parent when
she gave him one of her sons that would not make her look very good.
She is now denying access to the grandparents as well not both sides
she has completely denied any communication with Jake's family with
the children she has and she has told Jason that her parents do not
want to see him.
>
> Write soon,
>
> Colleen Bijl

Congratulations!!!

I have not posted here before but I do read the postings.  I am so very
happy for you!!   My husband and I are fighting his X who poisons the mind
of his daughter against him.  It's so nice to hear a happy story!  We go to
court July 13, I hope we are as fortunate.  I have the same question as from
the other message.  What alienating factors helped you to prove your case?

Again,  CONGRATULATIONS!!

Dana

>From: "Pearl  Maluzynsky" <Pearl.M@...>
>Reply-To: painmcgill@egroups.com
>To: painmcgill@egroups.com
>Subject: [painmcgill] Re: WE WON!!!!!!!!!!
>Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:24:54 -0000
>
>CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I am so very happy for you. It was nice receiving such good news this
>morning. I am not sure but I believe you live in CANADA. If you do
>will you please email me directly? I would like to know what Parental
>Alienation factors contributed to your success. May God continue to
>bless you.
>
>Pearl
>Pearl.M@...
>
>
>--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, "Sue " <wwhalen@s...> wrote:
> > WELL WE DID NOT GIVE UP, WE PERSEVERED THIS HELL AND TODAY IT HAS
> > REAPED THE REWARDS, OUR BOYS ARE COMING HOME AFTER LOOSING THEM 11
> > MONTHS AGO TO THEIR ALIENATING FATHER!!!!!!! THE FIGHT IS NOT
> > COMPLETE YET BUT THE BIG BATTLE HAS BEEN WON. IT IS GOING TO BE A
> > LONG HARD ROAD TO HEALING BUT WITH LOVE, UNDERSTANDING AND PATIENCE
> > WE WILL PREVAIL! STAY STRONG ALL OF YOU AND STAY FAITHFUL IN YOUR
> > SELF!
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so very happy for you. It was nice receiving such good news this
morning. I am not sure but I believe you live in CANADA. If you do
will you please email me directly? I would like to know what Parental
Alienation factors contributed to your success. May God continue to
bless you.

Pearl
Pearl.M@...


--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, "Sue " <wwhalen@s...> wrote:
> WELL WE DID NOT GIVE UP, WE PERSEVERED THIS HELL AND TODAY IT HAS
> REAPED THE REWARDS, OUR BOYS ARE COMING HOME AFTER LOOSING THEM 11
> MONTHS AGO TO THEIR ALIENATING FATHER!!!!!!! THE FIGHT IS NOT
> COMPLETE YET BUT THE BIG BATTLE HAS BEEN WON. IT IS GOING TO BE A
> LONG HARD ROAD TO HEALING BUT WITH LOVE, UNDERSTANDING AND PATIENCE
> WE WILL PREVAIL! STAY STRONG ALL OF YOU AND STAY FAITHFUL IN YOUR
> SELF!

WELL WE DID NOT GIVE UP, WE PERSEVERED THIS HELL AND TODAY IT HAS
REAPED THE REWARDS, OUR BOYS ARE COMING HOME AFTER LOOSING THEM 11
MONTHS AGO TO THEIR ALIENATING FATHER!!!!!!! THE FIGHT IS NOT
COMPLETE YET BUT THE BIG BATTLE HAS BEEN WON. IT IS GOING TO BE A
LONG HARD ROAD TO HEALING BUT WITH LOVE, UNDERSTANDING AND PATIENCE
WE WILL PREVAIL! STAY STRONG ALL OF YOU AND STAY FAITHFUL IN YOUR
SELF!

HI, my name is theresa and I too am a victim of PAS - I was losing my
mind until - like finally having an illness diagnosed I found out
about PAS and boy - did I cry because in reading it was lije looking
into a mirror.  There is no pain that can match the pain of losing a
child in this way - my son 9 1/2 is fading away from me - but I
persist - I will not stop - I have a law guardian, a PHD and an
attorney I am going to educate them on PAS and take a very active
role in preparing and organizing my case - they will be my voice - I
am prepared to do whatever I have to do.  My therapist - is good,  if
I knew where you lived I could help you more.  Please e-mail me at my
compuserve address tdkix39@... and we can chat and find out more -
maybe we can work on this together as I belive there is strenth in
numbers.  I am afraid because my fate and my sons is in the hands of
the court system that seems to be blind - but we have to persist -
nothing that is worth having ever comes easily -kinda like freedom is
never free - e-mail me when you get this and let's see what info we
can share with each other - it would be great to have someone to
share with me who knows the devestation anxiety, pain and desperation
that I feel.  God bless.  Theresa

--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, Engelkejo@a... wrote:
> Hi, My name is Jo and I am trying to find out about PAS. My three
> children, because of their fathers influence have turned against me
> and no longer want to see me, they even refuse to speak to me on
the
> phone. They are 2 boys aged 9 and 11 and a little girl aged 6. It's
a
> long, complicated story, but my husband got custody of them because
> they wanted to be with him and they and my husband especially are
> very hostile towards me. I would like to talk to others who are in
> the same boat. I have tried everything and don't know what to do
> next.Is there someone who can help me. Thanks,
> Jo

--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, asearchers@y... wrote:
> Hello Sharon,

I'm an adult survivor of PAS. I may be able to answer some of your
questions. Feel free to send them to me directly at Pearl.M@....

Peace Love and Happiness,
Pearl
>
thanks,
> i replied earlier, but it did not seem to go thru?
> wish someone would compile info on adults.
>
> hugs,
> sharon
>
> --- In painmcgill@egroups.com, Brian Jenkins <bjenkins@g...> wrote:
> > Not lot of material that I have seen, Sharon. The FACT
> > website has a lot of parental alienation material on it
> > at http://www.fact.on.ca -- the material is published
> > material.
> >
> > The Rivlin and Clawar book "Children Held Hostage",
> > published by the ABA, has more material on the impact on
> > the children, but not to an adult level. The FACT site
> > does have links to Amazon and Chapters for this book in the
> > book section.
> >
> > asearchers@y... wrote:
> > >
> > > hi!
> > > didn't realize this group was here!
> > >
> > > i created a mom's group alomost a year ago.
> > >
> > > http://www.egroups.com/group/0PASmoms-adultchild
> > >
> > > my story is at
> > >
> > > http://home.infospace.com/paschild1
> > >
> > > ?  are their any studies, reports, books, info. ect.
> > > from when the alienated child is now an adult?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > sharon
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table
> saws.
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/3/_/759017/_/961943543/
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:   painmcgill@e...
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: painmcgill-
> unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > --
> > Brian Jenkins
> > bjenkins@g...

thanks,
i replied earlier, but it did not seem to go thru?
wish someone would compile info on adults.

hugs,
sharon

--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, Brian Jenkins <bjenkins@g...> wrote:
> Not lot of material that I have seen, Sharon. The FACT
> website has a lot of parental alienation material on it
> at http://www.fact.on.ca -- the material is published
> material.
>
> The Rivlin and Clawar book "Children Held Hostage",
> published by the ABA, has more material on the impact on
> the children, but not to an adult level. The FACT site
> does have links to Amazon and Chapters for this book in the
> book section.
>
> asearchers@y... wrote:
> >
> > hi!
> > didn't realize this group was here!
> >
> > i created a mom's group alomost a year ago.
> >
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/0PASmoms-adultchild
> >
> > my story is at
> >
> > http://home.infospace.com/paschild1
> >
> > ?  are their any studies, reports, books, info. ect.
> > from when the alienated child is now an adult?
> >
> > thanks,
> > sharon
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table
saws.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/3/_/759017/_/961943543/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   painmcgill@e...
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: painmcgill-
unsubscribe@e...
>
> --
> Brian Jenkins
> bjenkins@g...

Not lot of material that I have seen, Sharon. The FACT
website has a lot of parental alienation material on it
at http://www.fact.on.ca -- the material is published
material.

The Rivlin and Clawar book "Children Held Hostage",
published by the ABA, has more material on the impact on
the children, but not to an adult level. The FACT site
does have links to Amazon and Chapters for this book in the
book section.

asearchers@... wrote:
>
> hi!
> didn't realize this group was here!
>
> i created a mom's group alomost a year ago.
>
> http://www.egroups.com/group/0PASmoms-adultchild
>
> my story is at
>
> http://home.infospace.com/paschild1
>
> ?  are their any studies, reports, books, info. ect.
> from when the alienated child is now an adult?
>
> thanks,
> sharon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/3/_/759017/_/961943543/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   painmcgill@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: painmcgill-unsubscribe@eGroups.com

--
Brian Jenkins
bjenkins@...

hi!
didn't realize this group was here!

i created a mom's group alomost a year ago.

http://www.egroups.com/group/0PASmoms-adultchild

my story is at

http://home.infospace.com/paschild1

?  are their any studies, reports, books, info. ect.
from when the alienated child is now an adult?


thanks,
sharon

--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, donnahks@n... wrote:
> I am currently going through a divorce, and in a horrible custody
> battle. My husband is with intent, trying to sever all ties between
> my children and myself.He does this through subtle comments,
positive
> to himself, and then follows with negative comments about me. The
> children are becoming distant, resistant, and protective of him.
How
> can this be proved in family counseling? This is at a severe point
> with the children. I believe they are being emotionally abused.
> Please help, if you can

Hello there,

You may wish to read my reply to Susan. If you need some other kind
of
help, just write and I will be happy to see what I can do.

Pearl

--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, "william whalen" <wwhalen@s...> wrote:
>
> Hello Suzanne,

It sounds like you and the kids are going through a really difficult
time, not to mention your other children and your husband. Your
description of your problem was brief so I will try to provide you
with the best suggestions possible. The first thing you should do is
go and pucrchase the book called "Divorce Casualties,Protecting your
children from Parent Alienation" by Douglass Darnall,Ph.D.

If for any reason you can not trust yourself to not become an
alienator then "DO NOT BUY THE BOOK",because you will only harm your
children.

  My next suggestion is that you contact your solicitor and do
whatever it takes to make sure your children are seen immediately by
a
child psychologist, who is very educated in the area of PAS. A
psychologist who is not well versed in this subject can unconsiously
be taken in by the alienator and can contribute to the problem. This
goes for the home assessor as well.

I suggest you contact your local psychologists association to inquire
whether or not the home assessor is in could standing with them and
if they have ever been suspended. You will also want to ask them for
the names of three psychologists who are considered to be experts in
the field of Parental Alienation (interview them all if you want).

A key thing to remember is that you don't have to stick with the
first home assessor that comes along, if you are not comfortable with
him or her and do not feel as though you can trust them
completely,change psychologists. Trust your instinct on this one.
The
psychologists association should also be able to provide you with
their criteria for conducting a home assessement.Make sure you are
clear on the aspects of confidentiality and that you sign something
agreeing to the terms of it.

The next thing you should do is get a psychologist for yourself,your
husband and your other children. You will need all the help you can
get to make it over all the bumbs along the way. You have a very
bumpy and long road ahead of you and even when the assessement is
complete,it is likely that it won't stop there. Someone will be
unhappy with the outcome and will most likely want a trial.

At times you may think "what's the use", don't ever give up. Don't
ever fall vicitm to "I will just wait until they are grown,then they
will see the truth and come to me on their own." If you do, you are
most likely going to leave them with feelings of being
unworthy,unloved and rejected. The scars from this are likely never
to heal.
>
I hope the tools I have provided you with are helpful. If you want to
ask me more questions or if you ever need more help, please write me
at Pearl.M@... and I will be happy to help. Take care.....
>
Peace Love and Happiness
Pearl Maluzynsky

> Suzanne Whalen
>
>          Hello Pearl!
>
>                Saw your post and would greatly appreciate any
insite
you can offer. I am a mother with 2 sons (age13) experiencing this
from thier father. I am in a long drawn out custody battle to get
them
back. They are chronically depressed and I have recently been made
aware that they may be suicidal too but there is little I can do at
this point as their father is difficult at best and I am unable to
talk to him as he repeats all that I say to the boys, often as I am
saying it but has an inability to repeat exactly ( he throws his own
interpretation in there). I have finally been granted a court order
for a full assessment and it is to begin this week and I am hopefull
that it will help to bring out the truth. Please tell me am I on the
right track?, what should I be doing to help them? By the way they
have 2 other brothers who reside with me, and their step-father of 10
years who they were also very close to before this.
>
>
                        Thanks soooo Much,
>
>
                              Suzanne

Dear Suzanne,

I went through the assessment process 18 months ago and will be going
through it once again in September. I caution you to be careful there. If
you really want to have any hope of being succesful there, and it is very
slim, there are a number of very important things you must always remember.
They are:

Nobody, in the assessment process cares about you. Don't whine and cry.
Don't complain or try to make the children's father look bad, in any way. It
may seem like a contradiction, and it may seem like you can't possibly be
successful, but its the only way. Anything negative will only work against
you because the assessor is only really concerned about the children.

Because of the family breakup, primary tendancies will always be towards
keeping the children in the matrimonial home, if possible and keeping the
children in their same schools, if possible. This is to maintain the
children's surroundings as close as possible to what they are used to. If
either of these things are a problem for you, then you have a very large
mountain to climb.

If the children are being alienated from you, it is okay to bring that up.
But be vague and in general. For example, talk about alienation. But let the
assessor draw out information required to support this. (almost like pulling
teeth). And appear reluctant to complain. Use only rock solid examples of
alienation and NOT mild ones. Mild examples will only serve to hurt you.
Remember that teh alienation is the main sickness and everything else that
upsets you is cosmetics. Ignore the cosmetics and concentrate on the
sickness. Then the assessor may see the sickness and order a remedy to make
the affects of the sickness go away. (i.e. award you custody depending on
how bad the sickness is.) There's a good web document on PAS and Malicious
Mother's Syndrome. One of them talks about does and don'ts. read them and
follow them. They are very good and excellent advise especially for
assessments.

Most importantly, just talk about the kids. Everything about the kids. Happy
stories and things you do. Try to present yourself as really only just
visiting a friend and telling them funny, happy stories. Let the assessor
see the good side in you, and some good side in your ex. You are trying to
portray that you are not upset, bitter or mad at him. The opposite will show
that you two cannot work together and the assessor will be forced to give
the children to one parent only. And guess who will most likely loose. The
parent that does not have the children now.

I made the mistake in my assessment of downloading everything. And I lost.
It then took 18 months of hell for the kids, running away 3 times, 2 death
threats, and 6 contempt of court convictions against my ex for me to be
given the opportunity to care for my children. And even with that, there is
no guarantee that the assessor will allow the children to stay with me. So
beware. The assessment is NOT there for YOU!!!!!

I don't know if others would agree with what I have just written, but that
is how I believe. The family law system in this country is archaic and blind
and unfair. Evgen when you think that right is on your side and you cannot
possibly loose, you will. They have no time to actually find out what is
truly in the best interests if the children. And the lawyers don't care. So
YOU have too. Consider your ex as your mate for life. Treat him like you
would if you two were still together, and happy....and even in love. Let
your stomach turn when he and the kids are NOT around but otherwise, put on
a good show. Then regardless of what happens, in the end, you WILL be the
WINNER. Because your children are NOT stupid. In time, justice comes to all.
Those who are good are rewarded and those who are evil are punished by the
children. Down side is, you may have to wait a long time for that reward. It
will be there. Be patient.

Hope this helps.

If you would like to dialouge more, please don't hesitate to write

richard.walsworth@... <mailto:richard.walsworth@...>

Good Luck

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: william whalen [mailto:wwhalen@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:36 PM
To: painmcgill@egroups.com
Subject: [painmcgill] (unknown)







Suzanne Whalen

          Hello Pearl!

                Saw your post and would greatly appreciate any insite you can
offer. I am a mother with 2 sons (age13) experiencing this from thier
father. I am in a long drawn out custody battle to get them back. They are
chronically depressed and I have recently been made aware that they may be
suicidal too but there is little I can do at this point as their father is
difficult at best and I am unable to talk to him as he repeats all that I
say to the boys, often as I am saying it but has an inability to repeat
exactly ( he throws his own interpretation in there). I have finally been
granted a court order for a full assessment and it is to begin this week and
I am hopefull that it will help to bring out the truth. Please tell me am I
on the right track?, what should I be doing to help them? By the way they
have 2 other brothers who reside with me, and their step-father of 10 years
who they were also very close to before this.


Thanks soooo Much,


Suzanne




   _____

  <http://click.egroups.com/1/5099/2/_/759017/_/961457647/>

<http://adimg.egroups.com/img/5099/2/_/759017/_/961457647/eMailpromo468x60a3
.gif>

   _____

To Post a message, send it to:   painmcgill@eGroups.com
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: painmcgill-unsubscribe@eGroups.com

Hello,

As you can tell,I was able to get on to the site. Thank you, and as I
said in my letter,if you ever need any more information on PAS from
and adult survivor of PAS, please do not hesitate to ask.

Wishing you well,
Pearl

--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, "Nancy Marget" <in00@m...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if this is working
> Despina Vassiliou

I am currently going through a divorce, and in a horrible custody
battle. My husband is with intent, trying to sever all ties between
my children and myself.He does this through subtle comments, positive
to himself, and then follows with negative comments about me. The
children are becoming distant, resistant, and protective of him. How
can this be proved in family counseling? This is at a severe point
with the children. I believe they are being emotionally abused.
Please help, if you can

can you reply to this person:  just ask her to talk to the foundation in
Washington.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Omarlina@...>
To: <painmcgill@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: [painmcgill] Pain


> Hi
>
> I'm in need of help, I have two children from my previous marriage
> that may be suffering from parental alienation.  I wasn't even aware
> that there was such a thing until my husband and I were search the
> web today.  I have a 17 year old daughter who has given us problems
> in the past of wanting to live with her father.  Now she has a very
> strained relationship with her father and these feelings seemed to
> have passed.  Hopefully they will repair their relationship I've been
> unsuccessful to bring them together but neither is budging and its
> been months since they have had any real contact.  I also have a 9
> year old boy who has been showing signs of great anger with us.  We
> cannot speak to him about anything without him yelling and telling us
> he wants to live with his father.  Recently his father has contacted
> family services twice about abuse, siting that our son is spanked
> with the hand and sometimes the belt, he cuts his hair short so that
> is can't be pulled, he's smaked in the face and so on.  The first
> visit by the case worker was ok she did not feel there was any abuse
> she advised our son he can be spanked with the hand or belt by either
> me or my current husband.  My son still doesn't believe this and now
> his returned home this weekend and told me his father said to call
> him if things get to rough.  Yesterday another case worker went to my
> son's school to talk to him again at his father's request.  This was
> told to me yesterday by the first case worker that came to our home.
> I am at a loss of how to help our family and mostly my son.  He hates
> us and his continously told terrible things about us he is greatly
> alienated and I don't know how to help him. I am a bit discouraged by
> some of the information I've read today, one article tells me there
> is little that can be done when a child is suffering from this
> alenation.  We have a coucelor session next week and I hope that his
> father will get involved with us in the future also.  But that
> probably unlikely we have a very strained relationship which is hard
> for the children as well as me.  I am only concerned with our
> children growing up as whole individuals and feel they need both
> parents in their lives.  Please tell me how and what action I should
> take to him the children as well as our family life.  Thanks Lina
> Sorry the message is so long.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Would you like to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on saving
> more each month? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you Long
Distance
> rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2567/2/_/759017/_/958066583/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   painmcgill@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
painmcgill-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>

Hi

I'm in need of help, I have two children from my previous marriage
that may be suffering from parental alienation.  I wasn't even aware
that there was such a thing until my husband and I were search the
web today.  I have a 17 year old daughter who has given us problems
in the past of wanting to live with her father.  Now she has a very
strained relationship with her father and these feelings seemed to
have passed.  Hopefully they will repair their relationship I've been
unsuccessful to bring them together but neither is budging and its
been months since they have had any real contact.  I also have a 9
year old boy who has been showing signs of great anger with us.  We
cannot speak to him about anything without him yelling and telling us
he wants to live with his father.  Recently his father has contacted
family services twice about abuse, siting that our son is spanked
with the hand and sometimes the belt, he cuts his hair short so that
is can't be pulled, he's smaked in the face and so on.  The first
visit by the case worker was ok she did not feel there was any abuse
she advised our son he can be spanked with the hand or belt by either
me or my current husband.  My son still doesn't believe this and now
his returned home this weekend and told me his father said to call
him if things get to rough.  Yesterday another case worker went to my
son's school to talk to him again at his father's request.  This was
told to me yesterday by the first case worker that came to our home.
I am at a loss of how to help our family and mostly my son.  He hates
us and his continously told terrible things about us he is greatly
alienated and I don't know how to help him. I am a bit discouraged by
some of the information I've read today, one article tells me there
is little that can be done when a child is suffering from this
alenation.  We have a coucelor session next week and I hope that his
father will get involved with us in the future also.  But that
probably unlikely we have a very strained relationship which is hard
for the children as well as me.  I am only concerned with our
children growing up as whole individuals and feel they need both
parents in their lives.  Please tell me how and what action I should
take to him the children as well as our family life.  Thanks Lina
Sorry the message is so long.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

COURT

Date: Friday, April 28, 2000
Time: 10:00AM - 4:00PM UTC (GMT+00:00)

Day to get decision on return of children!!!!!!!!

--- In painmcgill@egroups.com, kimdee@b... wrote:
> It is the hardest thing in the world to live with.   I thought that
I
> was the only person this was happening to.  Maybe we can chat
> sometime.


Email me Kim!!!!!!!! we can chat wwhalen@...
or ICQ @ 35575745

It is the hardest thing in the world to live with.   I thought that I
was the only person this was happening to.  Maybe we can chat
sometime.

I am also a mom in the exact same boat as you!!!!!!!! I am wondering
where you are located, i am just out side Toronto! email me and we
can share stories or whatever!!!!!! perhaps we can help each other
Great to meet you!
                          Sue wwhalen@...

Hi, My name is Jo and I am trying to find out about PAS. My three
children, because of their fathers influence have turned against me
and no longer want to see me, they even refuse to speak to me on the
phone. They are 2 boys aged 9 and 11 and a little girl aged 6. It's a
long, complicated story, but my husband got custody of them because
they wanted to be with him and they and my husband especially are
very hostile towards me. I would like to talk to others who are in
the same boat. I have tried everything and don't know what to do
next.Is there someone who can help me. Thanks,
Jo

Hi,

I am wondering if this is working
Despina Vassiliou