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olderlawstudents · Older Law Students - Discussion group for older law students

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  • Members: 338
  • Category: Law Schools
  • Founded: Apr 7, 1999
  • Language: English
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Looking back on my decision to go to law school at age 45   Message List  
Reply Message #3058 of 5423 |
I posted to this board way back in 1999 when I was a 45 y.o. 1L and
this group first started up. Just finished chatting with a woman
who'll be starting lawschool this fall at age 38 and, after advising
her to join this group, it occured to me that I ought to log in
again. Since I'm now well into my third-year of practice, I thought
you all might find my hind-sight helpful.

First off, let me say that I loved law school but my first couple of
years of practice were TOUGH. I have now settled into a GREAT firm,
am getting to do really interesting legal work, and am (finally)
earning the kind of money I expected to make as an attorney. Yes, I
would do it all over again!

A few pointers:

1) Don't hang your hopes on landing a big-firm job.
As you are no doubt aware, for new attorneys (and for students
looking for summer work), the big money is at the big firms. But
your chances of landing a cushy summer clerkship or a $120K/year job
fresh out of school are practically nil if you're over a certain
age. For women, the cut-off age seems to be about 32-35; for men, 37-
40. Basically, the older you are, the fewer large firms will give
you serious consideration UNLESS you have some highly relevant pre-
law experience. (i.e., if you were CEO of a fortune 500 firm before
you went to law school or were a state legislator for 20 years, your
age probably won't be a hindrance.)

I've heard some rather naive folks argue that "law firms wouldn't
discriminate because it is against the law." Baloney. Of the 16
over-forty students in my class of 350 (at a top-twenty law school),
at least ten or eleven graduated in the upper 50%. Seven, I know,
graduated with honors. Two were on law review. Several others won
some of the most prestigious awards given by the school. But NONE
managed to land a big firm job. Law firms who want to practice age
discrimination can get away with it because they know to do it
without providing the person discriminated against with any basis
for a lawsuit!

2) KNOW ahead of time that you have to be BETTER than your younger
classmates to compete for the same jobs.
While some 95% of my graduating class already had jobs lined up
before graduation, almost all of us older students were still
looking for a job when we took the bar exam - despite the
credentials mentioned above. Of the older students who graduated in
the bottom half of the class, I know of two that have given up on
ever finding legal employment and have gone back to their pre-law
careers. Do the best you possibly can in school and do whatever you
can to make your law resume as strong as possible. Moot court,
journals, whatever.

3) Be prepared to make less money your first year than you did in
your pre-law career.
In my state, first-year lawyers in gov't jobs make $30K - $40K per
year. Very small firms (i.e. those with fewer than ten attorneys)
are the most likely to hire older students because they recognize
the value of previous work experiences outside of the legal field.
But tiny firms tend to pay only slightly, if at all, better than the
gov't positions. And, if you go solo, you'll probably spend a good
part of your first year drumming up clients, not billing hours.

4) Small firms and gov't positions are a great way to gain
experience.
Despite making diddly squat in my first small-firm job in a small
town, it was a fantastic learning experience. The firm consisted of
just me and my boss and I immediately had my own case load with full
responsibility for making decisions. I tried my first FIRST-CHAIR
trial in December after being sworn in in November - and won a $120K
judgment for my client. I wrote contracts, wills, lien documents,
collection letters, and incorporation documents; filed personal
injury claims and represented clients in divorces, DTPA
cases,landlord/tenant disputes, employment discrimination cases;
propounded and responded to discovery, took depositions, tracked
down witnesses, etc... you name it, I saw it. On the other hand, I
spent very little time in the library and, on only one occasion,
wrote a document (a memorandum in support of an appeal) where I
needed to be concerned with whether I was citing case according to
proper blue-book form.

5) Investigate firms CAREFULLY before joining them.
At the end of my first year, I received an offer from a larger
(twelve-attorney) firm that LOOKED like a step up. Twice the money,
more complex cases, a shorter daily commute, etc. I did not check
the firm out as carefully as I should have. IT WAS AWFUL! The
worst kind of sweat-shop imaginable. Wasn't so much the long hours
as that, I swear, the partners took pleasure in destroying
associates! I gained 30 pounds in one year from the stress.
Take the time to go to the library and find the hard-copy
Martindale-Hubbles and look up the listing for any firm you're
thinking of joining going back at least five years. If I'd done
that, I'd have noticed that the firm, which had only 7 associates
when I started, had burned through more than 20 associates over a
five year period...and that was just the people who stuck around
long enough to actually get listed in the hard-copy Martindale-
Hubbles. There were others that had lasted less than 6 months. Do
your homework! Call associates who are no longer with the firm and
tell them you're thinking of accepting a position. If you don't get
enthusiastic, positive responses telling you what a great place it
is to work, be leary.

6) If you should wind up in a horrible firm, remember that you do
have other options. You don't have to suffer.
I was stupid and tried to stick it out...thought that leaving in
less than 2 to 3 years would mark me as a job jumper and RUIN my
career forever. Then, one of the partners did me a huge favor and
fired me when I refused to do something that, while legal, I
considered personally immoral. It took three months to find another
position but, with the help of an extensive support network, I
finally did - and with a much better, stronger, firm! Meanwhile,
another older associate at the horrible firm continues to stick it
out - so beaten down after almost four years with them that he is
convinced he isn't really qualified for anything else!

7) Speaking of networks, take the time to join at least one law-
related group and get actively involved.
Being an older new attorney means that it may be harder for you
to make the kind of connections that younger associates will
naturally make with each other. Connections matter big time in the
legal world. If there is an AMERICAN INN OF COURT in your area,
apply to join. Otherwise, sign up for some State Bar committee or
become active in your local bar association.
Also, take the initiative in developing relationships with your
fellow associates who are younger than you. It's my opinion that
younger associates tend to be somewhat intimidated by us older folks
so we have to put them at ease. Ditto with partners who may be
younger than you are.

8) Stay connected to your friends and associates from before law-
school.
The law world is a STRANGE one in a lot of ways. You need to
stay connected to the "real world" to continue to be a well-rounded
human being. In my opinion, the lawyers who give the profession a
bad name are those that have no understanding or empathy with
anybody outside the legal profession.

9) Stay true to yourself. -nuff said!

Practicing law is challenging and rewarding. You will suffer some
setbacks and you will discover things about yourself you would never
have otherwise known. If you stick with it, eventually I am sure
you will find success. I am truly glad I decided to follow my dream
and I wish all of you success in following yours.

Beverly Angel
(UTLaw 2002)









Fri Jun 3, 2005 3:04 am

bevangel_72
Offline Offline

Message #3058 of 5423 |
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I posted to this board way back in 1999 when I was a 45 y.o. 1L and this group first started up. Just finished chatting with a woman who'll be starting...
bevangel_72 Offline Jun 3, 2005
3:05 am

Bev: Congratulations. Thanks for the update. This board has changed. It is for serious policy discussion and Klingon dialect practice. I suggest you send your ...
Butte Forr
buttfor2007 Offline Send Email
Jun 3, 2005
10:21 am

Thanks so much for that great post. It's great to hear someone tell it like it is. Filled with "what am I doing?" at some point in my first year, I talked to...
liberty
liberty60622 Offline Send Email
Jun 3, 2005
11:07 am

Good of you to check back in! While the elders are the first to be voted off the island, your advice will be valuable. Well done. ... === message truncated ===...
YourID YahooID
YourYahooID Offline Send Email
Jun 3, 2005
11:12 am
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