I wish that I remembered the books that I read about cutting. They
were recommended to me by the youth who was cutting, to better
understand her. Once she was placed in a safe room, where the staff
thought that she couldn't get anything to harm herself. She took this
as a challenge and did find something.
This youth cut very deep but knew where not to cut so that her life
would never be in danger.
I really feel compation for you b/c I was the case worker involved
with this teen and her parents.
I believe that there are sites that deal with cutters or people who
self mutulate. This is just a suggestion, if she wants to cut, she
will find a way. What worked with this youth and lots of youths that
I had worked with since was now to make cutting the issue. That's a
really hard thing to ask from you. She may cut deeper to make the
cutting the issue for you to avoid the real issue underlinning why
she cuts. As I understand it real cutters, cut to releave stress &
anxiety.
Where does she cut, how deep, are there past scars anywhere on her
body. All the cutters that I have met know where to cut so that they
don't die from bleeding to death or hitting a main artery.
Perhaps you already know this. Please seek out all information about
cutting that you can. Don't ask your daughter. All it does is give
her more power to get YOU to focus on the cutting as opposed to what
are the issues.

In a message dated 4/5/02 6:11:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:


> however, when they spoke with
> her alone, she denied ever saying it.  They came to the conclusion
> that she was not harmful to herself or anyone else, so they sent her
> home with instructions to keep her May 1st appointment.
>

Don't you love it?  And why would a child just "say" these types of things
for kicks?  The last time that we took Shawn to be hospitalized, or we were
hoping anyway, he was so violent and oppositional and defiant.....they told
us right in front of him that it was our parenting and that they weren't
babysitters because we didn't want to do our jobs.  You should have seen the
look in his eyes.....like....I can't wait to get the two of you home alone.

Margaret


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My husband is taking a first-shift job so he can be home in the
evenings.  He'll take a slight cut in pay, but, as he pointed out to
his current employer, he needs to be home more to help with his
daughter.

I put the knives, scissors, etc., out of her reach; however, last
weekend, she went through the trash and dug out soup can lids and was
playing with those.  We took her to the E.R. of a hospital that has a
psychiatric ward.  We told our side and what she had said to one of
my friends (about cutting on herself); however, when they spoke with
her alone, she denied ever saying it.  They came to the conclusion
that she was not harmful to herself or anyone else, so they sent her
home with instructions to keep her May 1st appointment.

strength based IEPs info.



In educational situations, it is essential that parents understand
the nature of the weak areas, what skills need to be learned to
strengthen those areas, and how the strong areas can be used to help
remediate the child's weak areas.
http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/tests_measurements.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IEP_guide/links


Subject: Do teachers' lesson plans reflect children's IEP goals and
objectives?





the IEP journey are listed below in question form. Answering yes to
these questions and the ones posed in a later section (reviewing the
IEP) indicates that our destination may be in sight.

Do teachers' lesson plans reflect children's IEP goals and
objectives?
Is the staff person responsible for teaching an objective(s)
monitoring the child's progress as indicated on the IEP?
Are the periodic reviews taking place as scheduled or as needed?
Are related services being provided as indicated on the IEP?
Has an IEP meeting been scheduled to discuss expected changes in
objectives, goals, services, and/or placement?
Does instruction focus on the child's strengths and needs?
Are team members working together to implement IEP goals and
objectives?
Have friendships and natural supports been facilitated within the
school and community for full implementation of the child's program?
Has the team made appropriate instructional modifications in order to
support the child's participation in integrated school and community
settings?
http://www.hyperlexia.org/iep_roadmap.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/001add-adhd/


Using the PEPSI
to identify Student Strengths and Growth Needs
Once a PEPSI profile is established, there is a graphic
representation of a student's strengths and weaknesses. Use the
following example of a seven year old youngster to practice looking
for student strengths and areas that might be important to focus on
as part of an individual education plan.





Area Strengths Build-ons
Physical Good large muscle coordination
Dresses self
Prints own name
Not washing hands after toileting
Needs help tying shoes
Runs out of energy before tasks are completed

Emotional Very trusting
Enjoys helping when asked
Tattles to solve problems with peers
Has frequent tantrums
Very stubborn, willful

Philosophical Wants to be praised
Usually tells the truth
Very loving
Bossy with others
Takes others' things and cries when confronted
No recognition of others' needs

Social Likes to please the teacher
Loves to organize things
Tends to interact with adults or play alone
Possessive

Intellectual Counts to ten
Writes own name when asked
Reads twenty sight words
Likes to copy from the board
Preschool grade level work
Five minute attention span
Not able to follow two consecutive directions




Now, write two objectives for each of the PEPSI areas. Stay focused
on strengthening the student's potential. Try to address one of the
objectives toward strengths the student already has.



Physical

1.

2.







Emotional

1.

2.







Philosophical

1.

2.





Social

1.

2.







Intellectual

1.

2.



Building on a Child's Strengths
When I'm called upon to assist a child who is struggling in
school, I find the spotlight is often focused on a child's
weaknesses. This is particularly common for the child with poor
social skills, communication skills, learning disabilities, and/or
any other disability. Children with disabilities already feel they
are different. It is up to us to teach all children that different is
not bad, and that each of us has special strengths. We can help that
process along by showcasing every child's special interest and
strengths.

Years of remedial effort have been poured into fixing what's
broken, the deficit, rather than capitalizing on the strength and
what works. In other words, if a child can't read, hours are spent
teaching that child with methods that didn't work in the first place.
If there are behavior issues, the same punitive measures are used
over-and-over, yet there's no improvement.

When the spotlight shifts onto areas where your child shines, in
his/her areas of strengths and personal interest, there are often
very dramatic changes in work effort and negative behaviors often
dramatically diminish.

Child psychologist and recognized authority on ADHD, Dr. Robert
Brooks, developed the term "islands of competence" in reference to
these areas of strength. I interpret his concept in the following
way:

Everyone has strengths, but sometimes they're not obvious. We must
find those areas of strength and build on them. Every person must
feel they are making a contribution to their environment. If we
accept both these concepts, the obvious thing to do is to build upon
them. Every child must feel important and every child must taste
success.
Once academic needs are determined and appropriate services are in
place, it's extremely important to begin building self-confidence and
self-reliance. It's essential to have a concerted effort both at home
and at school, with clear communication between the school officials
and the parents.

Dr. Brooks likes for each of his young patients to have a special
job at school in an area related to the child's interests and needs.
It can be something like feeding pets or taking attendance to the
office monitor. This can take creativity and ingenuity, but it's
essential.

The schools I visit are sometimes resistant to this effort. After
all, only recently has there been such emphasis on this positive
approach to resolve behavior issues or low self-esteem problems.
Sometimes school personnel look at us like we've lost a few screws.
But it works! Inappropriate behaviors diminish, the child walks
taller, often begins to show improved self-confidence, and
demonstrates reliability. He feels needed and recognized for his
efforts.

Sadly, the child with a disability that impacts behavior and
social skills is often the last picked to help out with different
tasks. In reality, it's one of the single most effective tools to
help your child gain self-confidence.

The focus of scholastic effort must also be on the child's
strengths. Following, are just few examples and suggestions for
compensating effectively for weaknesses and building on strengths.

If your child has excellent verbal skills and creativity, but writing
is a struggle, you might ask for daily use of a computer. If a child
demonstrates such a need, (and I see this often in ADHD and learning
disabilities), than the school is responsible for providing that
assistive technology. Remember your child doesn't have to settle for
the broken computer in the corner of the room (which happens all too
frequently). Any needed equipment must be in working order and be
made available in the regular learning environment. If you're
concerned about the condition of equipment, you can stipulate in any
504 plan or IEP that the equipment be in working order and located in
an area immediately accessible to the student.
Perhaps your child grasps math concepts, but has difficulty
performing the actual calculations on paper. A calculator is a great
assistive device for such children. There might be complaints that
the child has to first learn math the "old fashioned way." Practical
experience has taught me that if a child can't perform very basic
math calculations by, say, the fifth grade, it will probably always
be somewhat difficult. Is he/she going to suddenly become proficient
in this area when an adult or count fingers? Most likely not. This
person will buy a calculator for as little as 5.00 and finally
become successful in performing practical arithmetic calculations.
Why not start early to help the person with a math disability
progress rapidly with the concepts by using a calculator to bypass
the disability? This is not to say a child should not continue to
work on mastery of calculations as well.
Or take the fifth-grader who's struggling with second-grade spelling,
perhaps spending as much as two hours a night trying to learn a list
of twenty words. The most common modification, if any is made at all,
is to cut the list in half. What if we let that child spend spelling
time becoming computer literate? With the use of a spell checker and
word processor program to offset organizational difficulties and
spelling difficulties, children suddenly blossom into creative
authors.
A child who is very distractible in the classroom can show dramatic
improvement when work is produced on a computer. Headphones can also
enhance learning. Many children with ADHD tend to lose the thought
somewhere between brain and pencil, but are excellent writers when
using a computer. There seems to be an instant direct connection
between brain and screen. Organizational skills show improvement.
Problem solving skills are also honed on the computer, bypassing
faulty circuitry that gets in the way of real learning. In each of
these instances weaknesses are diminished by technology that levels
the playing field for people with disabilities. The spotlight then
shifts from the writing weakness to the content strengths.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/1580/strengths.html


An excellent way to actively involve all those invested in the
inclusion process is to implement the MAPS process when developing
the child's IFSP/IEP. MAPS stands for Making Action Plans or the
McGill Action Planning System. The Kansas State Board of Education
has available a manual and videotape which describes the actual MAPS
process in detail entitled MAPS: A Plan for Including All Children in
Schools (1990). The MAPS manual and videotape might prove to be
helpful in developing strategies for creating a user friendly and
functional IFSP/IEP for children attending inclusive early childhood
programs. Information presented in the MAPS manual is geared toward
older students, however we have found that by using a modified MAPS
system we have been able to create IFSP's/IEP's which are built upon
the childıs strengths and prove to be functional within the inclusive
setting.
http://www.circleofinclusion.org/pim/seven/maps.html

2. What happens next?

Development of Goals and Objectives

Goals and objectives should be based on assessment, and should focus
on using a student's strengths and interest to address areas of
identified need. The best objectives contain specific information
about what we want a student to achieve, how instruction will support
the mastery of the goal, and are measurable.

http://www.parentsinc.org/newsletter/S98/SEQUENC.html

IDEA 1997 brings several changes to the IEP and the IEP team. Not
only will the role of the IEP team dramatically increase, the IEP
will move from a deficit-based educational plan to one that is
strength-based. IDEA 1997 is based on the belief that the majority of
students with disabilities can participate in the general education
curriculum to varying degrees.

http://www.cec.sped.org/pd/sbsre

The student's areas of strength and need. Whereas a statement of
needs identifies the student's weaknesses, a statement of strengths
identifies the student's own "tools" which can be used to address the
weaknesses. The basis for these statements should be the description
contained in the IPRC's statement. These statements might take the
form "Student demonstrates significant strength in..." and "Student
requires significant instruction/ support to ...."For
example, "Student demonstrates significant strength in auditory
learning"; "Student requires significant instruction/support to
develop reading skills."

Goals for the student. Goals should be based on the strengths and
needs of the student and represent the best prediction of what the
student should be able to accomplish by the end of the school year
http://www.ldao.on.ca/articles/newiprc.html


The IEP is a written document outlining the who, what, when,
why, where and how of instruction and related services that
are to be provided to a student with disabilities. IEPs are built
upon the strengths of individual students and are
designed to help each student achieve success in school, at
home, at work, and in the community.

The IEP Implementation Checklist
p The IEP has been shared and discussed with appropriate staff
members and service providers.
p Instruction focuses on the student's strengths and needs.
p Instruction reflects stated IEP goals and objectives.
p Identified modifications and accommodations are being provided.
p A designated IEP team member is monitoring the student's progress.

http://www.msde.state.md.us/specialeducation/

Strength Based Planning

Identify the strengths and resources of the student and student's
family and use these strengths and resources to develop an effective
IEP and / or other service plan. One full day offered once in the
fall and once in the spring.

Target Group: Administrators, SPED teachers, social workers, FSWs,
Counselors, CSSS, 504
Site: District
Trainer: Felix Training Institute
http://rrsc.k12.hi.us/sped/kauai/kwsp2.htm

D. Exceptionally Appropriate Practices
1) Writes IEPs using a strength-based approach
http://www.bgsu.edu/org/focus/preschool.pdf

Strength-based assessments

Create Strength-based Functional Behavior Assessments/Interventions
Train on the development of Strength-based IEP's
http://www.air.org/TAPartnership/consultant_pool/bios/w_hussey.htm

A good IEP has objectives that focus on a student's strengths and aim
for positive outcomes
http://www.acl.on.ca/Daily_News/2001/oct01/oct17.htm

The result of the teamwork is and IEP that embraces John's strengths
and the team's goals
http://www.region3.net/

Based on the child's needs while building upon the child's strengths,
the team drafts both annual
goals and short term learning outcomes.
http://star.nm.org/deafblind/forms/facts/IEPDevelopment.pdf

The focus of the IEP should be the development of strategies to build
on the child's strengths in order to remediate weaknesses and build
self-esteem. Educators agree that the best strategy for helping the
child with learning disabilities is to concentrate on strengthening
the child's existing abilities, while working steadily to improve
weaker skills. For example, if the child has excellent verbal skills
but is totally frustrated putting thoughts on paper, the IEP might
specify that his reports be given orally. If the child is strong in
math and poor in reading, the IEP might specify having him coach a
classmate who is struggling with math; reading support might include
reading two key paragraphs in the sports section of the newspaper
each night to a parent.
http://www.ldac-taac.ca/ldindepth/six.htm

5. What are the individual's strengths, gifts and abilities?
So often when educational teams get together, they dwell upon the
things that the individual cannot do as opposed to identifying and
building upon the strengths and abilities of the individual. The
facilitator asks the participants to review the list which described
the individual as a way to identify some of his or her strengths and
unique gifts. In addition, they are instructed to think about what
the individual can do, what he or she likes to do and what he or she
does
http://ssd.k12.mo.us/Inclusion/maps.htm

This full-day workshop is designed develop participants' skills in
the implementation of research-validated educational programming
for students with Autism and other significant disabilities according
to IDEA `97. It is intended for all staff working
with this population in an elementary through secondary environment.
First, participants will learn to develop and monitor IEP's using a
strength-based approach, implement proactive behavior and
integration plans, and identify the major research-validated
strategies used with this unique population.
http://www.nasponline.org/pdf/prel_prog02_thurws.pdf


The student's areas of strength and need. Whereas a statement of
needs identifies the student's weaknesses, a statement of strengths
identifies the student's own "tools" which can be used to address the
weaknesses. The basis for these statements should be the description
contained in the IPRC's statement. The statements might take the
form "Student demonstrates significant strength in and "Student
requires significant instruction/support to  For example, "Student
demonstrates significant strength in auditory learning"; "Student
requires significant instruction/support to develop reading skills."

Goals for the student. Goals should be based on the strengths and
needs of the student and represent the best prediction of what the
student should be able to accomplish by the end of the school year.

http://www.ldany.on.ca/

Based on the child's needs while building upon the child's strengths,
the team drafts both annual goals and short term learning outcomes.
http://www.usdb.k12.ut.us/fss/hand7.htm

A child's strengths should be a part of any IEP and these strengths
should be drawn upon when developing goals and objectives.

Strengths should be identified in all five areas described on page 1.
In addition, strengths should not be limited to only academics and/or
physical abilities. They can, and should, include interests skills,
hobbies, peronal traits, etc.

Examples:


  Matt is great at basketball.
  Dylan is trying really hard to talk.
  Benjamin knows how to use the computer.
  Emily likes to play board games with other girls.
  Nicole can read 4th grade textbooks.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/9021/articles/iepplanning.h
tml

GALLERY
8:00AM-12:30PM
Strength-Based IEP
Sharon Gage
http://ww2.stclair.k12.il.us/cgi-bin/roomres/


  `````````````````
anyone have a strength-based
IEP,
please contact me!
thanks,
asearchers@...

See http://bipolar.about.com/library/weekly/aa-02fittsvfnma.htm  it
concerns a lawsuit (successful) against an insurance company wherin
the judge found bipolar to be a "physical" rather than a "mental"
disorder.

Chris

Your right about my daughter whatever is going on with her is her
stuff. I don't need to accept it as just growing up beh. I also agree
with you about her self abusing herself b/c she is chosing to date
some one who is abusive to her. I have only met this boy once. One of
her girlfriends told me about him. His profile as being popular and a
jock and being very nice fit almost any sociapath, not that I am
saying that he is.

As for taking her back if it does come to that. I'm not ready to
unless there are big changes in her. I am the adult and she is the
child. Unfortunately right now she doesn't see it.

I'm sorry about your son. It's really hard to detach. I used to count
the days until she became 17 and perhaps gain some maturity, I never
expected or wanted her to actually leave my home.
There are many good Residential T.C. If you haven't gone with that
route do so now. He is still young enough to get into one. He won't
want to go, but I have never met any kid who did.
Wind

When I worked at the treatment centre I saw lots of kids cut
themselves. The cutting was gross and they would cut with many
different things. The cutting was and is only a symtem of what is
going on with them. We found that not many shrinks knew what type of
treatment to do on cutting. We as a staff body ignored the cutting
and delt with the beh. The cutting didn't always go away, but it
seemed to be under some control. As far as I know they cut to release
tension. We had one girl who cut severly and whenever we took her to
the hospital the doctors asked her why she was trying to kill herself
she would tell them that she wasn't and thought they were stupid.
It's very disturbing to see or witness. Get her to a child psyc. and
one who has delt with cutting before. We didn't talk about the
cuttings or self abuse but talked about issues. The closer we got to
a brake threw the more she would cut. She did stop deep cutting for a
long time, but now she is cutting again. I really liked this girl.
There are many books on cutting and self mutalitions some good but
other very good.
Refuse to talk or make a big deal out of the cutting.
Just my little advice.

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to give
it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with
thousands of those joining the actual Internet.  Remember, play FAIRLY
please! This ensures a huge circle of wealth that grows with the
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to the
above addresses, in order to create the legal service of the Mail
Order
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it's a
service.  You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. THIS IS
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for it! At first I was to scared to try this but I researched it and
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is like an equity stock on the stock market, continuously going up.
Believe
me it works. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL, THANK YOU AND PLEASE CONSIDER
GIVING SOME
OF YOUR NEWLY FOUNDED WEALTH TO A WORTHWHILE CHARITY.  IT WILL MAKE
YOU FEEL
GREAT. YOU'LL GET EVEN MORE BACK.  THE MORE YOU GIVE THE MORE YOU
RECEIVE
Sue xxxx

Has anyone else had these type of strange behaviors in their
  children?



****YES!!  I have found some REALLY strange things.  Mainly things that sparkle
or shine.  I even found the wrapper of a tampon in his room (SS).  You name it. 
But mostly, I have found nails, matches, paperclips, anything that could be
construed and/or used as a weapon, multitudes of pencils (or rather the remnants
of pencils) and food wrappers like you wouldn't believe.  He never uses the
trash can....everywhere else, even under rugs, in the dirty clothes, between
piles of books, anywhere.  How he remembers where he's put stuff, I haven't got
a clue.  He can't remember basic rules but he can remember something that he's
done and is properly motivated.  Yeah, right.

Margaret

Are your daughter or step-son on medication?  Is there other types of
  medication (aside from what is prescribed for ADHD) specifically for
  this type of problem?



*****Shawn takes 10 mg prozac and 20 mg adderall in the morning.  At lunch, he
takes 10 mg of adderall.  IN the evening, he takes 1mg of risperdal.  And he
still behaves unbearably when he wants to.  I could never go back to how he was
without the meds.  Good God... there are many herbal things on the market that
would provide relief.  I'm not at home but will be shortly and I'll check for
you.  Some of the things that come to mind immediately are kava kava, valerian,
st. john's wort.... but there are some dietary things that help more with anger,
anxiety.  I'll check.

Margaret

Are your daughter or step-son on medication?  Is there other types of
medication (aside from what is prescribed for ADHD) specifically for
this type of problem?


--- In oddparentsroom@y..., emandcee@a... wrote:
> You're the one with the 17 y.o. that was piercing and whatknot?
>
> That is a fantasy of mine.  Noncompliance can be very draining
emotionally and mentally.  It's a form of abuse really and children
have no right to do this to their parents.  We've had enough of the
abuse out of SS.  Last night was a nightmare and we just decided that
his being anti-social with us, he can do it alone in his room with
the alarm on.  I didn't miss him or his rotten, snotty, abusive
behaviour.  It's a shame that parents have to do this and that kids
think that it's okay to behave in this manner.  We are talking about
residential treatment centers or group homes.  We are also filing at-
risk-youth papers on him next week.
>
> You're lucky that your ex can take her.  The grass isn't always
greener and he'll soon see her behaviour for what it is, if he
doesn't already.  I wouldn't take her back either.  She's close
enough to 18, I'm guessing, and he can keep her until she is then
she's out on her own.... unless there are other plans?  Don't put
yourself in that position any longer.  It isn't worth it because all
they do is throw it back in your face and use you for a dishrag.  I
can't wait until SS is 18.  Seven years and 198 days until he's 18.
Yeah, I'm counting.
>
> Tough love.
>
> Margaret

My step-daughter has an appointment on May 1st at the outpatient
psychiatric clinic at one of the area hospitals.  One of my friends
sent her husband to my house to talk to her (he's a police officer).
At first, she was defiant with him, but she finally broke down and
admitted to the smoking, as well as to using nails, thumbtacks, etc.,
to cut at herself.  I'm going to contact the area mental health
center and start parenting classes.  In addition, my husband and I
are going to start seeing a counselor, as well.


--- In oddparentsroom@y..., fan24family <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> My two kids were with their dad.  Yesterday morning, I found that a
> few of my cigarettes were missing.  My step-daughter (8) had been
> smoking.  She, of course, denied that she was the one who had done
> it ... there was no one else to do it.  Proceeded to clean out her
> room ... she's always complaining that I don't wash her clothes.
> That's because they were all thrown in her toy box.  So I guess
> she'll have to wear dirty clothes this week.  And while I was
> cleaning, found several weird things in her bed and under her
bed ...
> nails (in bed), thumb tacks (in bed), broken glass (under the bed),
> ziploc bags of rotten food (under the bed), screwdrivers (under the
> bed), parts of flower arrangements with (sharp) metal ends, etc.
She
> even had (used) toilet paper thrown in her chest of drawers.  So I
> spend my morning calling to see if I can't get her in to see a
> psychiatrist ... no one calls me back.
>
> Has anyone else had these type of strange behaviors in their
children?

You're the one with the 17 y.o. that was piercing and whatknot?

That is a fantasy of mine.  Noncompliance can be very draining emotionally and
mentally.  It's a form of abuse really and children have no right to do this to
their parents.  We've had enough of the abuse out of SS.  Last night was a
nightmare and we just decided that his being anti-social with us, he can do it
alone in his room with the alarm on.  I didn't miss him or his rotten, snotty,
abusive behaviour.  It's a shame that parents have to do this and that kids
think that it's okay to behave in this manner.  We are talking about residential
treatment centers or group homes.  We are also filing at-risk-youth papers on
him next week.

You're lucky that your ex can take her.  The grass isn't always greener and
he'll soon see her behaviour for what it is, if he doesn't already.  I wouldn't
take her back either.  She's close enough to 18, I'm guessing, and he can keep
her until she is then she's out on her own.... unless there are other plans? 
Don't put yourself in that position any longer.  It isn't worth it because all
they do is throw it back in your face and use you for a dishrag.  I can't wait
until SS is 18.  Seven years and 198 days until he's 18.  Yeah, I'm counting.

Tough love.

Margaret

my daughter is now living with her dad, my choice but really her
choice due to her beh. of noncompliance. I overeacted but I really
don't know what I could have done differently.

My two kids were with their dad.  Yesterday morning, I found that a
few of my cigarettes were missing.  My step-daughter (8) had been
smoking.  She, of course, denied that she was the one who had done
it ... there was no one else to do it.  Proceeded to clean out her
room ... she's always complaining that I don't wash her clothes.
That's because they were all thrown in her toy box.  So I guess
she'll have to wear dirty clothes this week.  And while I was
cleaning, found several weird things in her bed and under her bed ...
nails (in bed), thumb tacks (in bed), broken glass (under the bed),
ziploc bags of rotten food (under the bed), screwdrivers (under the
bed), parts of flower arrangements with (sharp) metal ends, etc.  She
even had (used) toilet paper thrown in her chest of drawers.  So I
spend my morning calling to see if I can't get her in to see a
psychiatrist ... no one calls me back.

Has anyone else had these type of strange behaviors in their children?

I have reread some of the articles about ODD. I see that I have been
very hard on myself and on my daughter.

After reading all these articles, I find myself renewed with a spirit
that I will be ok. I need to stop overeacting to her. I have almost
stopped. She loves to control. She's not a bad person. I need to see
that she doesn't see what she's really like.

I wish that I could show her a mirror or movie and let her watch
herself.

Now after taking a breath and reading I feel newly empowered to deal
with another day. I do love her but I don't like her beh. At times
she can be so naturally friendly. I think that I will hold on to the
smiles and joy of looking at her in a different light. It must be
very difficult to be her. She is so angry and confused a lot of the
time. Now she probably has a tongue ring. Well it's not me that has
to live with it, it's her. Life goes on and she will meet the
consequences of her actions.

take care and hugs to all others who have kids with ODD
Wind2ca

my daughter has been giving me trouble since she was born. I thought
at first that it was my fault. All the guilt that a parent carries.
getting divorced. She was in the middle and I lost custody of her b/c
she wanted to live with her father. Well she got her wish, but at the
same time I spoilt her b/c I didn't see her very much.

Also I worked as a Youth Worker and the kids that I saw compared to
her were easy.

She is now 17 and defiant. She plays the game of pushing my buttons
and then wonders why I'm angry or refuse to give her things. She
really is confused. and confusing. She can be nice when she wants
something, but really nasty. She doesn't see the error of her ways.
It's as if she has no comprehention that what she is doing comes with
consequences.

On a scale of 1 to 10 she doesn't try me as hard as before. I would
say that she is now a 5 where before 9 was the buggy high.

I understand how hard it is to love these children. My patience is
wearing very thin. I am burn out by the constant pressure of walking
on egg shells. I don't believe what she says anymore. I have found
her in too many lies. I know that she doesn't steal, or do hard
drugs. She just loves to control me and her surroundings.

I have been told that this is her problem and I react to it. That's
true. Since I have stopped reacting the level of frustration is with
her. I just really don't care all that much for what she does
anymore. I figure she will be leaving home for good soon.

I wish I could have helped her. I wish I could up her self esteem. I
wish for her all the good things in life. Some say that they grow out
of this. Well if she does, I'll bless the day. Things aren't so bad
around here anymore I think b/c I don't get as excited about it
anymore. Wind

I feel pulled in two directions with this child. I love her, but not
  without conditions. For this I feel guilty. All the other parents who
  know her just think that she is the best. I at times wish that they
  could see her when she is doing her routine with me.
  Thanks for listening. Wind


          *****Hey, I totally understand what you're going through.  I resent my
stepson and his ability to manipulate others into thinking that his father and I
are the ones that are totally screwed up and he's just a perfect angel.  I hate
the fact that he holds it together all day this year at school and then unloads
on us as soon as he walks through the door.  I hate the fact that he sits and
BS's his way through a therapy session until I address something that he cannot
squirm out of.  He told me this morning that his BM is the only one that
understands him...because I spanked him for slamming (so hard that the entire
house shook) his bedroom door.   I only spanked him once.  That is the only time
that I spank him.  Otherwise, he's doing pushups.  I will not abide by his
slamming doors.  He's got a right to be angry but he will not.  I'm sure people
will tell me that I'm nuts...whatever.  I don't spank out of anger; just
discipline.  He doesn't make me angry anymore.  Or rather, I don't show it to
him.  I'm dealing with it because I told myself that I want my life back and I
want to be happy again.  I have not liked who I've become and will no longer let
him control ME.  My paycheck was beginning to suffer....he would get me so riled
every morning that I could not go to work (I'm a substitute teacher at present).
My attendance has been spotty and so has my pay.  I think that I finally
realized that he's a liar and a manipulator that has NO INTENTION of changing
until he's damn good and ready.  He won't make the right decisions, then I'll
make his decisions for him.  Plain and simple.  I've taken control of everything
for him.  He hates it.  And I'm glad.  I hate saying that but the more he hates
it, then the more that we'll get that gigantic brick wall to shatter and crack
and hopefully one day, break.

I'll be damned if he destroys me.  I will not ruin my years AFTER he's gone from
the house by falling apart now.  It's the only thing that I look forward
to...him not being there.  I don't miss him when he's not there one bit.  Just
being honest.  I love and care for him but his behaviours are so pervasive that
there isn't a moment in my day that I am not reminding, repeating, disciplining.
I don't miss that at all when he isn't at home.

Margaret

since I brought up the topic and was so angry at the time that my dd
would again defy me & that's what I was really angry about.

Tatoos or piercings other than my daughter have very little effect on
me. In fact I do like some tatoos. My dd has a nice one on her back.
It was very tastful and looks good.

As for the piercing, especially in the tongue, I find it gross. My
problem. I try to see what my stuff is going on in all this coping
with ODD so that I can control my reaction. One friend said to me,
it's only a hole. That's a fact. and true. Now when asked what was
the real issue behind this piercing, I felt that I had approved of
all the other piercings that she had done. They were discrete. This
one I feel is about me and how little control I really have with her.
She did say that to me. "YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT I DO".

My first reaction is to kick her out. b/c what is next.

I think she has low self esteem. Things around her need to be exiting
all the time for her to be happy. The trill of the momment. Since she
is still in Florida and does call daily to tell me what she's doing,
I like that, when she is positive.

She isn't as defiant as she once was. She has moved out twice. Both
times b/c I said NO. Now I walk on eggshells at times.

Her clothes are the Britney Speers kind. She's very pretty and
popular b/c she is where things are usually happening.

I feel pulled in two directions with this child. I love her, but not
without conditions. For this I feel guilty. All the other parents who
know her just think that she is the best. I at times wish that they
could see her when she is doing her routine with me.
Thanks for listening. Wind

Anyway, she told me that people who excessively pierce or have
several tattoos suffer from low self-esteem.

      I have two tattoos and don't feel that I have low self-esteem.
Where does this woman get her research?  I feel that the majority of
people that get tattoos are expressing themselves.  I have my sign on
one arm and my children's name on the other.  MANY people I know have
tattoos, including my husband, his brother (this guy is sleeved),
sisters, brothers and I don't see low self-esteem being their
problems.

      This is just my .02.  But I do agree on the piercing of the
tongue.  I think it's horrible to see it, have it done, just makes my
skin crawl but if there are people out there willing to do it, there
will be people willing to do it to them.  The new thing that I
despise is the stuff that is like earrings but makes gigantic holes
in your earlobes.  You keep switching to bigger and bigger things to
make the holes bigger; anyone seen these?  That is just about the
most bizarre thing in the world to me.

      I just don't agree on the tattoo thing.  Would you really walk
up to a biker and say that he/she has low self-esteem?  It's making
me smile just thinking about it.

Margaret

I'm fairly new and couldn't actually remember that I had signed up
for this group because I hadn't received any emails!  I just realized
that my membership wasn't set up to receive any...duh!

I'm a 35 y.o. custodial stepmother to a 10 y.o. FAS, RAD, ODD/CD,
ADHD, SI, anxiety and depression boy.  His father has had custody
since he was 3 and I've been in his life since just a few months
prior to him turning 5.

Your ears bleeding...been there.  Still do it sometimes.  You have to
persevere and NOT give in.  Giving in is what they view as weakness.
If you give in...you're toast.  Don't get angry, upset because you'll
be toast on that, too.  A good book with great methods of stuff is 1-
2-3 Magic by Thomas W. Phelan, Ph.D.  You both need to be
consistent.  I hear in your message that your son is crying for his
father to come home and my question is...does your son think that
he's going to be free of you and any discipline when daddy comes
home?

This used to be the way in my house.  My husband is finally learning
that consistency is EVERYTHING.  That will give you strength, no
matter how painful the learning of it is for these kids.

We have been through it all and now we're in another phase of
defiance and opposition:  SS's mother has a new male roommate and SS
hates him.  I don't know how long the guy has lived there but we
believe for long enough where SS is starting to make himself bleed,
mostly in his nose, constantly.  He's the most anxious child that I
have ever met.

You're not the only one going crazy....I'm going crazy up here in
Washington State.  I feel like I'm in better control the last couple
week than I have been in a few years and that's GREAT!  Just
determination to make it happen for MY life, not his.  And he thought
he had control of me.  He admitted yesterday in therapy that he was
mad that I wasn't getting pissed off anymore.  I couldn't care less.
I'm more effective as a parent now and can handle his bull-loney.

I can't wait to get more emails from the group.  I think that I set
up the membership correctly so that I would.  I was only on special
notices and I have no idea why that happened!!

Have a great day!
Margaret

Hi.  I have posted once before, but I am still fairly new here.  I
was hoping that someone had some advice that they could share.  I
have a soon to be 4 year old (March 30) step-son that has been
diagnosed with ODD, ADHD, and the lastest of the alphabet soup, RAD.
I am going out of my mind trying to get control in my household.
Most of the consequenses that I have been advised to try do not seem
to be age appropriate for a 4 year old.  Anyway, our counselor wants
us to work on one problem per week, which is reasonable.  So this
week we are working on not throwing a completely raging fit when told
to do something that he doesn't want to do or being told no.  We are
using Time Out until he calms down as a consequence.  The Time Out
doesn't start until he does it properly.  Well, we are now going on 7
hours, and he is still kicking the wall, begging for Daddy to come
home, getting up and chasing the cat, etc.  Does anyone have any
advice on where to go with this?  My ears are about to bleed from all
the screaming!

--- In oddparentsroom@y..., wind2ca <no_reply@y...> wrote:

A woman I used to work with has a teenager, and she read a book (for
the life of me, I can't remember what the title is ... refer to my
previous post.  I'm suffering from a light stage of dementia <LOL>.)
Anyway, she told me that people who excessively pierce or have
several tattoos suffer from low self-esteem.  I, personally, have not
read this book, but could this be the answer to your question?  Does
she feel as though she "fits in" with her peers?


> I just don't understand why a young, intelligant young woman of 17
> would want to pierce her tougne. She knows I don't want her to. She
> really gets off on getting me angry.
>
> I know that I can't control her beh. I feel trapped with this girl.
I
> do feel really guilty, that I have failed her sometimes and walk on
> eggshells at other times. Being 17 should bring some maturity. I
just
> don't know how to deal with things that I can't do anything about.
>
> She has just gone to Florida with some friends and their dad. She
> saved her $$ and I gave her some spending money. She has called
> everyday that she has been away. She can't seem to have fun and
just
> stop and smell the roses. She told me that she is bored and would
> like to come home.
>
> ODD??? she not violent, aggressive, but has a large chip on her
> shoulders and her beh. is rude.

I'm still searching for a psychologist ... the one we were referred
to isn't covered by our insurance and isn't taking new patients
anyway.  The school counselor told me to contact my step-daughter's
pediatrician, so that's my next course of action.

Wind ... yes, I did read Dr. Chandler's report.  I couldn't believe
it ... it's her through and through.  I also plan to visit the
library (or a couple libraries) to see if I can't get more
information on this particular situation.

Sorry I haven't been here for a while.  I had to re-boot, and then I
couldn't figure out how to get back online.  I've been having
terrible memory problems, myself, lately.  I read an article in the
new Good Housekeeping mag, and the author spoke about pre-menopausal
conditions.  Even in your mid-30s, you can suffer from hormonal
changes, and memory loss is one of them.  That's all I need!

Thanks for being here!

Hi, my name is Jennifer and I have a 3 year old who is out of
control.  She was diagnosed about 2 months ago with ADHD and ODD and
the doctor put her on 2.5 mg of Adderol twice per day.  At first
things seemed to go really well with the medication and  now she's
going through a period of being terribly disobedient refusing to talk
when we ask her a question, spitting, hitting you name it it's just
been terribly hard.  Last week she had gotten so bad that I called
the hospital to try to get her into a same day appointment and the
triage nurse heard her in the background and immediately made an
appointment but needless to say by the time we got to the hospital
she was behaving somewhat normally again.  The one thing the doctor
did was set up an appointment with a child pyschatrist to see what he
can recommend for us to do with her ODD and hopefully we will have
some good advice.  I am just frustrated and I want to enjoy my child
all the time and most days I dislike her terribly (I know that sounds
aweful)but I really want to enjoy my children and I am just so
frustrated I do not know what to do with myself anymore.  Anyway,
thanks for letting me vent..lol

Jennifer

I just don't understand why a young, intelligant young woman of 17
would want to pierce her tougne. She knows I don't want her to. She
really gets off on getting me angry.

I know that I can't control her beh. I feel trapped with this girl. I
do feel really guilty, that I have failed her sometimes and walk on
eggshells at other times. Being 17 should bring some maturity. I just
don't know how to deal with things that I can't do anything about.

She has just gone to Florida with some friends and their dad. She
saved her $$ and I gave her some spending money. She has called
everyday that she has been away. She can't seem to have fun and just
stop and smell the roses. She told me that she is bored and would
like to come home.

ODD??? she not violent, aggressive, but has a large chip on her
shoulders and her beh. is rude.

Subject: Yahoogroups will be down


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Subject: Yahoogroups will be down






I just found out that Yahoogroups will be down for maintenance from
March 15
until March 18. It will be back up and running sometime late on the
18th. This
means that any messages sent the group will not be processed until
Yahoogroups
is back up and running, and will most likely be out of any sensible
order.

Please send this on to as many yahoogroups as you want. And remember
that when
sending messages next weekend, you will not see them until late on
Monday or
early Tuesday.


we/iep guide members will need to use:

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/iepguide

Yes hon we are all in the same boat so to speak and I am determined
mine shall not sink. My son was diagnosed at age 3 1/2 with ADHD then
came the Bipolar Dx then came ODD then OCD then lastly the Tourettes
Syndrome. Life is not easy to say the least but with other moms who
know what we live through daily it does make it somewhat easier to
say the least. I am here for any of you if you have questions etc.
Aaron has been hospitalized 2 times for his Bipolar etc.
Hang in there and God Bless.
             Judy   SgrBear25@...

Yes most kids with ADHD also have another disability with it.
It is called Co-Morbid meaning more than one disability.
My son is ADHD, ODD, OCD, Bipolar and Tourettes Syndrome.
           Hugs Judy

Yes, Hon I do remember you.
I have been trying to get into this club for days kept getting error
messages.. uughh so frustrating good thing I am not ADHD or Bipolar
also. hehehehe nice to hear from you again hon..
             Love  Judy