What is the perfect temp to cook each grain or is there just one temp that will do for all grains.

I ask because I have seen many different temps listed.

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 AM
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: distilling

 

Alex,

Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208 ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4 liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.

Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56 lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16 liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.

When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 =  8.69kg total solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78 liters per gallon)=7.56 liters

The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L, which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of  that's figuring my 2 gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic pressure right at the start.

To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the amount of sugar.

I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing. I know because I did it once.

Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf

Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


<br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva <regalsilva@...> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.<br>>       My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   <br>>      Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br>

Back again with another raft of newb questions; fortunately they're much more
specific this time. Progress is being made (and I gotta say, it's all down to
this list and ZB's book... you're a rockstar dude, seriously...)

Okay, so, I made a "coffeepot" still using an erlenmeyer flask (had some issues
with a thermometer since the flask as a much narrower mouth than a coffee pot,
but that was taken care of by using an in-oven model). Turns out the much longer
lyne arm I built works out a treat for collection and a nice cool output.

I've done a couple brandy runs using a large amount of red wine I had handy. The
first was 1000ml and the next was 1500ml. I got roughly 9 to 11 ounces from each
run. Chucked the heads and tails and wound up with 6 ounces kept from the 1000ml
run and 8 ounces kept from the 1500ml run. I strongly suspect that I should have
tossed more heads, as my results have a definite tang to them that is not
something I want to consume.

As far as heat went though, when I cranked the burner (electric hotplate,
restaurant grade), the temp went straight to 89-90 and hovered there until I was
on ounce 5 or 6, then it climbed steadily until it got to about 98 - 99,
whereupon I stopped as the distillate was starting to smell and taste like a wet
dog. When I would attempt to drop the heat to prevent it hitting 90 so fast, the
drip rate would plummet to nil. The wine also stayed at a steady gentle boil. I
had no puking since the flask is quite tall, but I'm still concerned about the
temp.

So here's the questions:

1: What am I doing wrong with temp? More patience? Is it subject to altitude?
(NorCal coastal where I am..) The temperature graph in he book was a ramp, mine
seems to be more of a cliff with a line.

2: Since the temp was so at-variance with what's in ZB's book, how else do I
estimate ABV? Should I just go get a hydrometer before I go any further? Kinda
leaning that direction, and there's a lovely brew shop nearby that stocks them.

3: My output is VERY harsh. Is this normal? Compared to commercial brandy it's
obviously overproof, which is fine, but is the aging what proves all the warmth
and mellow tones? At this point I'm assuming I screwed up my cuts and going
forward from there. I am also noticing it tastes strongly of raisins, for
"brandy" distilled from red wine, is this normal or is the raisin flavor
something else entirely?

4: I have no intention of diluting at this point, is that step something that is
required, or can I collect and start to age without it?

5: Can I take what I've got now, put it back in which the wine I have left, and
re-distill it to remove the heads I should have removed before? I know I can put
the tails back in, but can I do the same with the current product, or is it a
writeoff?

6: Are my input <--> output ratios normal? I had 1100ml of leftovers from a the
1500ml run.

Thanks a bunch.
DeePseudo

But I have READ a TON.... I purchased a nixon stone offset head still and have
it sitting atop a 15.5 gal keg as the pot.  this reflux still has 2 ports for
temp probes... I have a guide to the approx temps and such for the cuts.. (Taste
smell and touch will be the determining factor) however.. one port at the top of
the condensor coil and one port at the top of the column...

My 1st question is... Where to take the readings for the cuts? top of the column
or top of the condensor ?

there is a ton of info out there for a pot still but not a lot or this offset
head one.  I may have to do this trial and error which is fine... But any
information would be greatly appreciated... I have not fired it up yet at all...
I will be running my first clean up run in the next few days 50/50 vinegar/water
x 2 then a simple sugar mash just to push out alcohol  to finish out the
cleaning process...

At the moment I have no cooling on the output just the condensor, what are your
guys thoughts on this? since its a reflux its already condensed so no real need
for the external cooling?

Any input or an idiots guide to this type would be awesome...


Thanks

Oats   52-64 C
Buckwheat    60-85 C

One other thing about commercial enzymes - they are formulated for different
temperature ranges, some will work at very high temperatures.  The alpha amylase
that I use denatures around 160 but it will work at 185 just long enough to
reduce the viscosity to where the mash is easier to work with, but it is done
for within a few minutes.

BC

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks BC
>
> You blew me away with high amylose had no clue until I wiki'ed it.  If you
ever run across Gelatinization temperature for buckwheat and oats, I will be a
happy camper.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Becool Stayslinky <becoolstayslinky@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:26 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat Mash
>
>
>  
> This might be of interest from the alcohol textbook:
>
> Gelatinization temperature ranges of various feedstocks
>
> Corn
> Standard                62-72 C            ( 144-162 F )
> High amylose 1       67->80 C          ( 153-176 F )
> High amylose 2       67->80  C         ( 153-176 F )
> Barley                         52-59 C              ( 126-138 F )
> Rye                             57-70 C              ( 135-158 F )
> Rice (polished)             68-77 C              ( 154-171 F )
> Sorghum (milo)             68-77 C             ( 154-171 F )
> Wheat                             58-64 C            ( 136-147 F )
>
> This is the cooking temperature that you hold for an hour or so to hydrate the
starch molecules so that they enzymes can work on them. In my cooking procedure
I bring 7 gallons of water to a boil, turn off the heat and add 20 pounds of
finely ground wheat, with a little bit of enzyme mixed through the last few
pounds to make the mix more stirrable.  After all the grain is mixed in, the
temperature is at about 180-185, well above the required temp for cooking wheat,
but doesn't hurt it and speeds up the hydration of the starches. I it let stand
for about an hour, mixing occasionally before moving to the liquefaction step
where the alpha amylase enzyme is used.
>
> BTW- I make up the rest of the liquid content in the mash by adding ice blocks
to bring the temp down in the subsequent steps.
>
> BC
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "allibugger"  wrote:
> >
> > White Bear,
> > The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the
heat, pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the
yeast.  I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not.  I did not
grind the wheat.  Thanks.  Alli
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear  wrote:
> > >
> > > Alli-
> > >   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is
normal.  This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the
tendency to do this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get
ground wheat or grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will
settle down after a while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try
varying the grind on your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching
the yeast?
> > > WB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: allibugger
> > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> > > Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Howdy All,
> > >
> > > Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a
question.  I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with
a flaked wheat vodka recipe.  I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is
put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out.  This
also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and
still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up.
Is this a problem or just how it works?  Thanks
> > > Alli
> > >
> >
>

I just tried a banana mash just 5 gal, thank god it was in my shower about
1:00am a big boom brought me up out of the bed lol I had banana mash all over
the bath room what whint wrong added no shugar and used on pack of yeast the
brew store give me what tha hell man ????????

So what recipe did you use for your banana mash?

Sent from my iPad

As a test, I purchased 200 ml of the cheapest vodka from a local liqueur store
as a base for my first finish run.  Now I have a good idea what not to keep as
drinkable spirits.  That one small sip gave me a headache, so it has to be heads
that was nasty stuff.

If you are a newbie to distillation like myself, I would suggest that you go out
and sample the cheapest spirits you can find as a means of knowing what you
don't want to produce from your still.

Robert

thanks you all, but let me git back on track here im not new at this but I am
old school corn whiskey not corn meal, and barly scotch, and evan shugar shine
is all I no im 9th gen, shiner just wanted to try something new and it bit me in
the ass LOL, but hey on other hand smells good LMFAO!!!!!!

Remember that vodka is a "grain" spirit, from some unnamed grain, or even potatoes; moonshine, for the "real thing" (not cola) is made of corn, sometimes with a bit of rye for spice or wheat for smoothness. Most of the s&*t seen on the Discovery Channel "Moonshiners" is "sugar whiskey" or "sugar jack", that is made from sugar, water, and yeast. Vodka can be made this way.

There is, after all, a tradition that can be kept alive here, or at least revived, the making of "old time Mountain Dew" which was only one of many names. Others were "Sweet Spirits of cats a fightin'", "Panther P___s", "Bust head", "Stump Hole", "Stump Water" and many more. The product of a well run Mountain still was clear as spring water, had a sweet scent of flowers, fresh corn, and maybe smoke, if they dried the malted grain over a fire or in the smokehouse. The taste was smooth for some makers, fiery for others (some liked a "bite", which led some makers to add lighter fluid, methanol, lye and other chemicals, which could get the moonshiner killed if discovered, and could kill customers), and had flavor profiles that varied from sweet corn to smoky, to, some said "flowery", depending on the makeup of the mash - some used honey in it.

There is a good old book called "Mountain Spirits" that can be found on Amazon that tells a lot about it.

Alex Netherton
Blue Ridge Discovery

On 2/23/2013 3:16 AM, last2blast wrote:

 

As a test, I purchased 200 ml of the cheapest vodka from a local liqueur store as a base for my first finish run. Now I have a good idea what not to keep as drinkable spirits. That one small sip gave me a headache, so it has to be heads that was nasty stuff.

If you are a newbie to distillation like myself, I would suggest that you go out and sample the cheapest spirits you can find as a means of knowing what you don't want to produce from your still.

Robert

I apologize in advance if this is a little wordy.

I'm fermenting a cracked corn and rye wash with 8 lbs of sugar in 5 gallons of
water. I'm on my 8th day with it and the airlock only lets out a bubble every 25
seconds (been that way now for the last 6 days). SG is 1.08 and still tastes
sugary as hell. I'm using reverse osmosis water and started with 2 packets of
champaign yeast. I'm on my 3rd run. 1st 2 washes i didnt even know to check SG
before and after. got me some equipment and decided to get a little more
aggressive with my wash. this is my 2nd wash using RO water. 1st went ok but in
retrospect probably still had a lot of sugar in it. I confess I didnt rehydrate
my yeast at 1st, did some more reading and decided to add another packet of
champaign yeast after rehydrating it for 30 min and adding sugar and letting it
foam. added the new rehydrated yeast about 4 days ago. doesnt seem to have
helped much. Any way I can get it going again? any ideas what to do different?
if my problem was dry yeast, shouldnt adding a yeast starter have helped?