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  • Category: Food and Drink
  • Founded: Mar 20, 2000
  • Language: English
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#43301 From: "allibugger" <allibugger@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:51 pm
Subject: Re: Wheat Mash
allibugger
Send Email Send Email
 
White Bear,
The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the heat,
pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the yeast. 
I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not.  I did not grind the
wheat.  Thanks.  Alli

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@...> wrote:
>
> Alli-
>   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is normal. 
This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the tendency to do
this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get ground wheat or
grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will settle down after a
while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try varying the grind on
your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching the yeast?
> WB
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: allibugger <allibugger@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
>
>
>  
>
> Howdy All,
>
> Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a
question.  I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with
a flaked wheat vodka recipe.  I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is
put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out.  This
also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and
still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up.
Is this a problem or just how it works?  Thanks
> Alli
>

#43302 From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Wheat Mash
sha_man_1
Send Email Send Email
 
Alli-
  I wouldn't actually call it cooking if there isn't a sustained simmer at least.  I think what you did was "Bloom" the wheat kernels.  I am sure that at the beginning of the "Pitch" there was some cooking but I would bet that the tempreture cooled rather rapidly immediatly after pitching until the kernels equilibreated with the liquid temp.  If you would have cracked the wheat at least, the initial temp would have had the chance to soften and "cook" the kernels so to speak. You may have acquired a decent starch convergence in the beginning but the rest of the starch may have stayed suspended throughout the fermentation period.  This is where the actual cooking comes in, you need to liberate the starch or "denature" the starch through a prolonged cooking session.  Just remember not to exceed 195°F during the cooking process or you may end up with a bunch of glue in your fermentation vessel. 
White Bear
 
 
 

From: allibugger <allibugger@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:51 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat Mash
 
White Bear,
The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the heat, pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the yeast. I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not. I did not grind the wheat. Thanks. Alli

--- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, White Bear wrote:
>
> Alli-
>   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is normal.  This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the tendency to do this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get ground wheat or grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will settle down after a while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try varying the grind on your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching the yeast?
> WB
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: allibugger
> To: mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
>
>
>  
>
> Howdy All,
>
> Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a question. I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with a flaked wheat vodka recipe. I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out. This also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up. Is this a problem or just how it works? Thanks
> Alli
>


#43303 From: "Derek" <justweldit41@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:35 pm
Subject: Fermentation
justweldit41
Send Email Send Email
 
My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting small
bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't have a
sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait longer.

#43304 From: <rdh2059@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:24 pm
Subject: Re: Just how dangerous is it?
ahandyman59
Send Email Send Email
 

If the specific concern is with your alcohol burner, then there is some justification for concern. A lot of boats over the years have burned because of alcohol based stoves. One of the problems with alcohol burners is that alcohol burns with a blue flame that can be hard do see, so you may not realize you've had a leak and flame is spreading until you get secondary fires starting.

Like others have said, you should probably replace the alcohol burner. Alcohol burns at a pretty low (relatively speaking) temperature. This will end up making the long distilling process even longer. Waiting for a "kettle to boil" is boring... Go with propane or a white gas (coleman) stove. They put out a lot of heat and are much more controllable...

ahandyman59

 

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 22:46:51 -0000, "Mark" <stagof7@...> wrote:

 

To take the plunge into distilling I got an alembic pot still with an alcohol burner as heat source. So far I've distilled a bit of water to try it out and check for leaks. A couple of people I've spoken to have warned me that the open flame alcohol burner is very dangerous. If I use tubing to direct the distillate from the condenser a foot or so from the flame is there really any danger?

And "thank you" to all for the advice I've already received from the members here.

Mark

.

 

 


#43305 From: <rdh2059@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:26 pm
Subject: Re: Re: agave
ahandyman59
Send Email Send Email
 

You're talking about the basis of tequila, right?

 

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:40:55 -0000, "jsducote" <jsducote@...> wrote:

 

Dry/powdered agave nectar is widely available and more easily transported than barrels of wort. If you can't find it in your local supermarket, try the asian or hispanic markets if you have one near you. It's often labelled as cactus honey. Is it exactly the same? No, of course not, but I imagine it's close enough for experimentation. It's widely used as a honey substitute although it's a lot more fructose than glucose, as opposed to honey, which is about equal parts fruc/gluc (wikipedia). It does have a honey-like flavor to it, so consider that in your recipe. It's more expensive than plain sugar, so I would think it should be used as an ingredient for its taste (pot/low-reflux still) as opposed to its price.

As for your northern greenhouse, I hope you have several acres and even more patience.
-j

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB wrote:
>
> Just read up on agave.  Interesting!  It might be worth it to go down south and mixing barrels of agave wort and bring those barrels north to finish fermenting to distill.  Stirring is good, so that long drive back would keep it will stirred.  I wonder how well they would do in a northern greenhouse?
>
> Robert
>
> ________________________________
> From: Donnie
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 2:10 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] agave
>
> eany of you ever use pure agave whater a yeast??


 
.

 

 


#43306 From: "David Eastham" <planetgong0@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:34 pm
Subject: Re: Fermentation
planetgong0
Send Email Send Email
 
Why dont you invest in a hydrometer, takes the guess work out of the equation.
In answer to your question, yes its probably done.
Dave E
--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Derek" <justweldit41@...> wrote:
>
>  My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting small
bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't have a
sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait longer.
>

#43307 From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Fermentation
sha_man_1
Send Email Send Email
 
Derek-
I agree with Dave, it is done.  I made wine for 40+ years most of them without a hydrometer and have come up with some very fine stuff.  Check out your fermentation lock and count the times it bubbles.  If it is above 1 per minute it is done and ready for your next step.
 
White Bear
 
P.S. Do invest in a hydrometer, there is more to it then just checking if your mash is done.
 
 

From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:34 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Fermentation
 

Why dont you invest in a hydrometer, takes the guess work out of the equation. In answer to your question, yes its probably done.
Dave E
--- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "Derek" wrote:
>
> My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting small bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't have a sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait longer.
>


#43308 From: "Becool Stayslinky" <becoolstayslinky@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:26 am
Subject: Re: Wheat Mash
becoolstaysl...
Send Email Send Email
 
This might be of interest from the alcohol textbook:

Gelatinization temperature ranges of various feedstocks

Corn
      Standard                62-72 C            ( 144-162 F )
     High amylose 1       67->80 C          ( 153-176 F )
     High amylose 2       67->80  C         ( 153-176 F )
Barley                         52-59 C              ( 126-138 F )
Rye                             57-70 C              ( 135-158 F )
Rice (polished)             68-77 C              ( 154-171 F )
Sorghum (milo)             68-77 C             ( 154-171 F )
Wheat                             58-64 C            ( 136-147 F )

This is the cooking temperature that you hold for an hour or so to hydrate the
starch molecules so that they enzymes can work on them. In my cooking procedure
I bring 7 gallons of water to a boil, turn off the heat and add 20 pounds of
finely ground wheat, with a little bit of enzyme mixed through the last few
pounds to make the mix more stirrable.  After all the grain is mixed in, the
temperature is at about 180-185, well above the required temp for cooking wheat,
but doesn't hurt it and speeds up the hydration of the starches. I it let stand
for about an hour, mixing occasionally before moving to the liquefaction step
where the alpha amylase enzyme is used.

BTW- I make up the rest of the liquid content in the mash by adding ice blocks
to bring the temp down in the subsequent steps.

BC

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "allibugger" <allibugger@...> wrote:
>
> White Bear,
> The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the heat,
pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the yeast. 
I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not.  I did not grind the
wheat.  Thanks.  Alli
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@> wrote:
> >
> > Alli-
> >   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is normal. 
This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the tendency to do
this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get ground wheat or
grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will settle down after a
while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try varying the grind on
your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching the yeast?
> > WB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: allibugger <allibugger@>
> > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> > Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Howdy All,
> >
> > Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a
question.  I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with
a flaked wheat vodka recipe.  I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is
put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out.  This
also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and
still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up.
Is this a problem or just how it works?  Thanks
> > Alli
> >
>

#43309 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:42 pm
Subject: Grain Cokking Temp
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
What is the perfect temp to cook each grain or is there just one temp that will
do for all grains.

I ask because I have seen many different temps listed.

Robert

#43310 From: RLB <last2blast@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:45 pm
Subject: Re: Fermentation
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
I had a batch ferment for 35 days before I did a stripping run, and it would have gone longer.  If it tastes bitter, it's ready.

Robert


From: Derek <justweldit41@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:35 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] Fermentation

 
My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting small bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't have a sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait longer.




#43311 From: RLB <last2blast@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:48 pm
Subject: Re: Re: agave
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
Yes, I was thinking about experimenting with tequila too.

Robert


From: "rdh2059@..." <rdh2059@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: agave

You're talking about the basis of tequila, right?
 
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:40:55 -0000, "jsducote" <jsducote@...> wrote:
 
Dry/powdered agave nectar is widely available and more easily transported than barrels of wort. If you can't find it in your local supermarket, try the asian or hispanic markets if you have one near you. It's often labelled as cactus honey. Is it exactly the same? No, of course not, but I imagine it's close enough for experimentation. It's widely used as a honey substitute although it's a lot more fructose than glucose, as opposed to honey, which is about equal parts fruc/gluc (wikipedia). It does have a honey-like flavor to it, so consider that in your recipe. It's more expensive than plain sugar, so I would think it should be used as an ingredient for its taste (pot/low-reflux still) as opposed to its price.

As for your northern greenhouse, I hope you have several acres and even more patience.
-j

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB wrote:
>
> Just read up on agave.  Interesting!  It might be worth it to go down south and mixing barrels of agave wort and bring those barrels north to finish fermenting to distill.  Stirring is good, so that long drive back would keep it will stirred.  I wonder how well they would do in a northern greenhouse?
>
> Robert
>
> ________________________________
> From: Donnie
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 2:10 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] agave
>
> eany of you ever use pure agave whater a yeast??


 
Yahoo! Groups
.

 
 



#43312 From: Bill Rogers <bill.rogers@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:20 pm
Subject: Re: Fermentation
tucciim
Send Email Send Email
 
test it with a hydrometer.


On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Derek <justweldit41@...> wrote:
 

My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting small bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't have a sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait longer.



#43313 From: RLB <last2blast@...>
Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: Just how dangerous is it?
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
Another example of how poor ethanol is as a heating source: Years ago car salesmen spurted alcohol onto auto hoods and set them on fire to show that its paint was almost indestructible.  It was nothing more than a gimmick because of the way alcohol burns above the surface and water protects it from damaging paint.

Robert



From: "rdh2059@..." <rdh2059@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Just how dangerous is it?

If the specific concern is with your alcohol burner, then there is some justification for concern. A lot of boats over the years have burned because of alcohol based stoves. One of the problems with alcohol burners is that alcohol burns with a blue flame that can be hard do see, so you may not realize you've had a leak and flame is spreading until you get secondary fires starting.
Like others have said, you should probably replace the alcohol burner. Alcohol burns at a pretty low (relatively speaking) temperature. This will end up making the long distilling process even longer. Waiting for a "kettle to boil" is boring... Go with propane or a white gas (coleman) stove. They put out a lot of heat and are much more controllable...
ahandyman59
 
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 22:46:51 -0000, "Mark" <stagof7@...> wrote:
 
To take the plunge into distilling I got an alembic pot still with an alcohol burner as heat source. So far I've distilled a bit of water to try it out and check for leaks. A couple of people I've spoken to have warned me that the open flame alcohol burner is very dangerous. If I use tubing to direct the distillate from the condenser a foot or so from the flame is there really any danger?

And "thank you" to all for the advice I've already received from the members here.

Mark

.

 
 



#43314 From: "Derek" <justweldit41@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:00 am
Subject: Re: Fermentation
justweldit41
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you Dave and White Bear,
   I had bought a hydrometer, but it was for distilled product, so ill have to
get another one, thank you for the info.  This is my first mash so its all new
to me.
Thanks again

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@...> wrote:
>
> Derek-
> I agree with Dave, it is done.  I made wine for 40+ years most of them
without a hydrometer and have come up with some very fine stuff.  Check out
your fermentation lock and count the times it bubbles.  If it is above 1 per
minute it is done and ready for your next step.
>  
> White Bear
>  
> P.S. Do invest in a hydrometer, there is more to it then just checking if your
mash is done.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:34 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Fermentation
>
>
>  
>
>
> Why dont you invest in a hydrometer, takes the guess work out of the equation.
In answer to your question, yes its probably done.
> Dave E
> --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "Derek"  wrote:
> >
> >  My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting
small bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't
have a sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait
longer.
> >
>

#43315 From: "Derek" <justweldit41@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:13 am
Subject: Re: Fermentation
justweldit41
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you Dave and White Bear,
   I had bought a hydrometer, but it was for distilled product, so ill have to
get another one, thank you for the info.  This is my first mash so its all new
to me.
Thanks again

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@...> wrote:
>
> Derek-
> I agree with Dave, it is done.  I made wine for 40+ years most of them
without a hydrometer and have come up with some very fine stuff.  Check out
your fermentation lock and count the times it bubbles.  If it is above 1 per
minute it is done and ready for your next step.
>  
> White Bear
>  
> P.S. Do invest in a hydrometer, there is more to it then just checking if your
mash is done.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:34 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Fermentation
>
>
>  
>
>
> Why dont you invest in a hydrometer, takes the guess work out of the equation.
In answer to your question, yes its probably done.
> Dave E
> --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "Derek"  wrote:
> >
> >  My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting
small bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't
have a sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait
longer.
> >
>

#43316 From: RLB <last2blast@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:21 am
Subject: Re: Re: Wheat Mash
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks BC

You blew me away with high amylose had no clue until I wiki'ed it.  If you ever run across Gelatinization temperature for buckwheat and oats, I will be a happy camper.

Robert



From: Becool Stayslinky <becoolstayslinky@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:26 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat Mash

 
This might be of interest from the alcohol textbook:

Gelatinization temperature ranges of various feedstocks

Corn
Standard 62-72 C ( 144-162 F )
High amylose 1 67->80 C ( 153-176 F )
High amylose 2 67->80 C ( 153-176 F )
Barley 52-59 C ( 126-138 F )
Rye 57-70 C ( 135-158 F )
Rice (polished) 68-77 C ( 154-171 F )
Sorghum (milo) 68-77 C ( 154-171 F )
Wheat 58-64 C ( 136-147 F )

This is the cooking temperature that you hold for an hour or so to hydrate the starch molecules so that they enzymes can work on them. In my cooking procedure I bring 7 gallons of water to a boil, turn off the heat and add 20 pounds of finely ground wheat, with a little bit of enzyme mixed through the last few pounds to make the mix more stirrable. After all the grain is mixed in, the temperature is at about 180-185, well above the required temp for cooking wheat, but doesn't hurt it and speeds up the hydration of the starches. I it let stand for about an hour, mixing occasionally before moving to the liquefaction step where the alpha amylase enzyme is used.

BTW- I make up the rest of the liquid content in the mash by adding ice blocks to bring the temp down in the subsequent steps.

BC

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "allibugger" wrote:
>
> White Bear,
> The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the heat, pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the yeast. I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not. I did not grind the wheat. Thanks. Alli
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear wrote:
> >
> > Alli-
> >   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is normal.  This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the tendency to do this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get ground wheat or grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will settle down after a while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try varying the grind on your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching the yeast?
> > WB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: allibugger
> > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> > Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Howdy All,
> >
> > Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a question. I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with a flaked wheat vodka recipe. I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out. This also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up. Is this a problem or just how it works? Thanks
> > Alli
> >
>




#43317 From: Carlos alberto Sanchez <s_carlosalberto@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:15 am
Subject: Re: Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller
s_carlosalberto
Send Email Send Email
 
MI VIDA SE HABIA VUELTO INGOBERNABLE


De: Chuck <mcr2207@...>
Para: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Enviado: miércoles, 6 de febrero de 2013 13:24
Asunto: Re: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
Very Funny Ben

I started with a 7.5 gallon and am now building a 30 Gal  Already thinking it might be too small.

Cheers



From: ben marks <nebskram@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 7:08 AM
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
SEND IT BACK AND GET A BIGGER ONE!

 
 ...ben
 
 
________________________________ 
 
  Whiskey is What Beer Wants to Be When it Grows Up
______________________
 
Your Car is German. Your Vodka is Russian. Your Pizza Italian. Your
Kebab is Turkish. Your Democracy is Greek. Your Coffee Brazilian.
Your Movies are American. Your Tea is Chinese
. Your Shirt is Mexican.
Your Oil is Saudi Arabian. Your Electronics are Japanese. Your Numbers  are

Arabic, Your Letters are Latin. Your Cocaine is Colombian. And you
Complain that your Neighbor is an Immigrant?
_________________________



To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: sir_mudduck@...
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 00:58:15 +0000
Subject: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
I just recieved my small but functional unit. THe main chamber holds .7 liters. Does any one have expierance with this size device. Maybe some tips or tricks to save me some of the growing pains?







#43318 From: Regal Silva <regalsilva@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:47 am
Subject: distilling
regalsilva
Send Email Send Email
 
(A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash

(B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.
      My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   
     Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.

(C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.

Alex

#43319 From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:09 am
Subject: Re: Grain Cokking Temp
AreoSpike
Send Email Send Email
 
The reason there are different temperatures for mashing grains is because, along with pH, each temperature range activates different enzymes. 

image.jpeg


If your grain has more starch or proteins you adjust the temp and pH accordingly, so you can extract more sugars. 


Remember that these enzymes will work at these temps only until they are denatured (this starts at about 75°C or 168°F). Once this occurs, you cannot turn the starches or proteins into sugar, and you're just wasting grains. 

Maltsters will typically provide a data sheet with the malt that you buy that will tell you how much protein, starch, distatic power, and many other characteristics of the grains. These numbers aren't fixed per se, and reading the sheet can tell you lots about your end flavor. 


This link should get you started with the malt sheet:


If your malt didn't come with one, ask for it. Malt we buy has a sheet stapled to each bag, or at least one for the pallet. You can also always look up the lot number and look online. If you don't know where your grain came from, you can spend about $125USD and have it analyzed in a lab. 



On Feb 18, 2013, at 4:42 PM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

 

What is the perfect temp to cook each grain or is there just one temp that will do for all grains.

I ask because I have seen many different temps listed.

Robert


#43320 From: "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: distilling
tgfoitwoods
Send Email Send Email
 
Alex,

Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208 ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4 liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.

Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56 lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16 liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.

When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 =  8.69kg total solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78 liters per gallon)=7.56 liters

The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L, which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of  that's figuring my 2 gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic pressure right at the start.

To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the amount of sugar.

I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing. I know because I did it once.

Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf

Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


<br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva <regalsilva@...> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.<br>>       My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   <br>>      Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br>

#43321 From: RLB <last2blast@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:18 am
Subject: Re: distilling
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
7 cups of sugar to a gal of water "0.0", wow! I thought 5 cups was a lot (2.4 cups of sugar equals a pound). You might have unused sugar in your wash.

I used 5 grams of of yeast in 5 gals wash. Yeast was placed in a cup of wash and allowed to grow as it was stirred.  Even 24 g of bakers yeast is to much.  Next time, place place 1 tbsp (7 g) of bakers yeast in a large cup of wash and let yeast grow before pitching.  I made all of the same mistakes that you just described.

Robert



From: Regal Silva <regalsilva@...>
To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] distilling

 
(A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash

(B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.
      My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   
     Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.

(C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.

Alex



#43322 From: RLB <last2blast@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:58 am
Subject: Re: Grain Cokking Temp
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
Looks like 165 F is the max temp. for amylase and start out with a higher pH 8.5 then return it to 5.7.  Thanks for the info.

Robert



From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>
To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Grain Cokking Temp

The reason there are different temperatures for mashing grains is because, along with pH, each temperature range activates different enzymes. 

image.jpeg


If your grain has more starch or proteins you adjust the temp and pH accordingly, so you can extract more sugars. 

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/images/b/be/PH_and_temp_enzyme_matrix.jpg

Remember that these enzymes will work at these temps only until they are denatured (this starts at about 75°C or 168°F). Once this occurs, you cannot turn the starches or proteins into sugar, and you're just wasting grains. 

Maltsters will typically provide a data sheet with the malt that you buy that will tell you how much protein, starch, distatic power, and many other characteristics of the grains. These numbers aren't fixed per se, and reading the sheet can tell you lots about your end flavor. 


This link should get you started with the malt sheet:

http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/bmg/noonan.html

If your malt didn't come with one, ask for it. Malt we buy has a sheet stapled to each bag, or at least one for the pallet. You can also always look up the lot number and look online. If you don't know where your grain came from, you can spend about $125USD and have it analyzed in a lab. 



On Feb 18, 2013, at 4:42 PM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

 
What is the perfect temp to cook each grain or is there just one temp that will do for all grains.

I ask because I have seen many different temps listed.

Robert




#43323 From: Brendan Keith <bkeith@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:04 pm
Subject: RE: Re: distilling
bkeith1886
Send Email Send Email
 
The problem with your calculation is that when you create a solution, the volume does not increase (your 1.63 gal. to 2 gal. assumption).
 
A simpler way to plan a simple sugar wash is, first, do it in metric, so if you wanted a wash of SG 1.10 and started with 3L of water (which weighs 3kg by definition), you would just need to add 0.3kg (x 2.2 = 0.66 lbs) of sugar.  Therefore, you now have 3.3kg of 'stuff' in a 3L volume.
 

--

Brendan Keith

bkeith@...

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 AM
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: distilling

 

Alex,

Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208 ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4 liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.

Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56 lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16 liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.

When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 =  8.69kg total solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78 liters per gallon)=7.56 liters

The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L, which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of  that's figuring my 2 gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic pressure right at the start.

To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the amount of sugar.

I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing. I know because I did it once.

Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf

Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


<br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva <regalsilva@...> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.<br>>       My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   <br>>      Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br>


#43324 From: "damionpseudonym" <bloodpuddle@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:38 pm
Subject: More specific newbie questions:
damionpseudonym
Send Email Send Email
 
Back again with another raft of newb questions; fortunately they're much more
specific this time. Progress is being made (and I gotta say, it's all down to
this list and ZB's book... you're a rockstar dude, seriously...)

Okay, so, I made a "coffeepot" still using an erlenmeyer flask (had some issues
with a thermometer since the flask as a much narrower mouth than a coffee pot,
but that was taken care of by using an in-oven model). Turns out the much longer
lyne arm I built works out a treat for collection and a nice cool output.

I've done a couple brandy runs using a large amount of red wine I had handy. The
first was 1000ml and the next was 1500ml. I got roughly 9 to 11 ounces from each
run. Chucked the heads and tails and wound up with 6 ounces kept from the 1000ml
run and 8 ounces kept from the 1500ml run. I strongly suspect that I should have
tossed more heads, as my results have a definite tang to them that is not
something I want to consume.

As far as heat went though, when I cranked the burner (electric hotplate,
restaurant grade), the temp went straight to 89-90 and hovered there until I was
on ounce 5 or 6, then it climbed steadily until it got to about 98 - 99,
whereupon I stopped as the distillate was starting to smell and taste like a wet
dog. When I would attempt to drop the heat to prevent it hitting 90 so fast, the
drip rate would plummet to nil. The wine also stayed at a steady gentle boil. I
had no puking since the flask is quite tall, but I'm still concerned about the
temp.

So here's the questions:

1: What am I doing wrong with temp? More patience? Is it subject to altitude?
(NorCal coastal where I am..) The temperature graph in he book was a ramp, mine
seems to be more of a cliff with a line.

2: Since the temp was so at-variance with what's in ZB's book, how else do I
estimate ABV? Should I just go get a hydrometer before I go any further? Kinda
leaning that direction, and there's a lovely brew shop nearby that stocks them.

3: My output is VERY harsh. Is this normal? Compared to commercial brandy it's
obviously overproof, which is fine, but is the aging what proves all the warmth
and mellow tones? At this point I'm assuming I screwed up my cuts and going
forward from there. I am also noticing it tastes strongly of raisins, for
"brandy" distilled from red wine, is this normal or is the raisin flavor
something else entirely?

4: I have no intention of diluting at this point, is that step something that is
required, or can I collect and start to age without it?

5: Can I take what I've got now, put it back in which the wine I have left, and
re-distill it to remove the heads I should have removed before? I know I can put
the tails back in, but can I do the same with the current product, or is it a
writeoff?

6: Are my input <--> output ratios normal? I had 1100ml of leftovers from a the
1500ml run.

Thanks a bunch.
DeePseudo

#43325 From: "cookin_e85" <skyraider2012@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:14 pm
Subject: new to this hobby
cookin_e85
Send Email Send Email
 
But I have READ a TON.... I purchased a nixon stone offset head still and have
it sitting atop a 15.5 gal keg as the pot.  this reflux still has 2 ports for
temp probes... I have a guide to the approx temps and such for the cuts.. (Taste
smell and touch will be the determining factor) however.. one port at the top of
the condensor coil and one port at the top of the column...

My 1st question is... Where to take the readings for the cuts? top of the column
or top of the condensor ?

there is a ton of info out there for a pot still but not a lot or this offset
head one.  I may have to do this trial and error which is fine... But any
information would be greatly appreciated... I have not fired it up yet at all...
I will be running my first clean up run in the next few days 50/50 vinegar/water
x 2 then a simple sugar mash just to push out alcohol  to finish out the
cleaning process...

At the moment I have no cooling on the output just the condensor, what are your
guys thoughts on this? since its a reflux its already condensed so no real need
for the external cooling?

Any input or an idiots guide to this type would be awesome...


Thanks

#43326 From: RLB <last2blast@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:30 pm
Subject: Re: distilling
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
Alex

There are many ways of creating a good sugar wash.  When my experiments started, I used only what was in my kitchen with no fancy equipment.

I drink Arizona Tea, so it was natural to start with their 128 oz jug, but what surprised me is that those jugs hold 152 oz., which is perfect for 1 gal sugar wash.  Here is how my sugar wash was produced:  Clean jug well with dish soap and a quart of water.  Place cap on top and shake very well.  Empty and rinse well.  Place upside down on a dish rack for at least 2 hrs.  Place 16 cups of hot water (around 140 F) in jug.  Add 4 cups of sugar, 1 tbsp. non-iodine salt., 2 tbsp. lemon juice.  I toss in a multivitamin for some nutrients, but you need 1 tbsp of nitrogen fertilizer.  You could wait until some yeast dies so that it produces its own nitrogen or you could ask a farmer or buy it from garden store.  I purchased 1 lb. of DAP from a brew shop 80 miles from my home.  All of that is placed in the hot water filled jug and shaken with cap on to mix well and to aerate wash.

Fill a large clean glass half way with your mixed sugar wash, and allow it to cool.  I use 18 oz thin plastic cups because heat is transferred easily, so you can tell when its lukewarm to the touch.  Place 1 tbsp of yeast in that cup, and use your hand to move cup in a circle motion until yeast is mixed with wash.  Place a paper towel or clean cloth over the cup.  Every 10 min swirl the yeast.  You can pitch the yeast once your main wash has cooled to 85 F, or you can swirl your yeast all day and pitch it before you go to sleep.  The more yeast you have in your cup the faster it will convert sugar to alcohol.

Normally, I pitch my swirled yeast an hour later, and my wash instantly produces CO2.  You don't really need an airlock, but they are very handy.  You can make an airlock, or you could leave the cap snug and releasing pressure every few hours.  I made at least 10 - 1 gal. batches without an airlock.  Great thing about Arizona jugs is you can see its bubbles through the plastic.

Robert           



From: Regal Silva <regalsilva@...>
To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] distilling

 
(A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash

(B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.
      My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   
     Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.

(C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.

Alex



#43327 From: "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:36 pm
Subject: Re: distilling
tgfoitwoods
Send Email Send Email
 
Sorry, Brendan, but it doesn't work that way. I'll admit I was guessing on the amount the volume changed, but here's proof that it does change, and significantly.

From the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, a 30 Brix sucrose solution has a density of 1.129 kg/L, so that a liter of that solution has a mass of 1129 grams. By Wikipedia's definition, "One degree Brix is 1 gram of sucrose in 100 grams of solution and represents the strength of the solution as percentage by weight (% w/w)."  Therefore the mass of sucrose in that liter is (30/100)1129, or 338.7 grams of sucrose.

Since the mass of the water is everything that isn't the mass of the sucrose, in that solution, the water has a mass of 1129-338.7=790.3 grams of water. By definition, that water has a volume (assuming 4 C) of 790.3 ml, but the total volume of our original liter is 1,000 ml. 790.3 ml of water plus 338.7 grams of sucrose give us a whole liter of solution, way more than just the water.

Yes, it would have been way simpler to solve a problem in grams and liters, but the problem was stated in cups, gallons, and liters, so I had to convert.

I'll stick by my numbers that the problem as originally stated specified a solution almost certainly too concentrated to ferment.

Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits



<br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Brendan Keith <bkeith@...> wrote:<br>><br>> The problem with your calculation is that when you create a solution, the<br>> volume does not increase (your 1.63 gal. to 2 gal. assumption).<br>> <br>> A simpler way to plan a simple sugar wash is, first, do it in metric, so if<br>> you wanted a wash of SG 1.10 and started with 3L of water (which weighs 3kg<br>> by definition), you would just need to add 0.3kg (x 2.2 = 0.66 lbs) of<br>> sugar. Therefore, you now have 3.3kg of 'stuff' in a 3L volume.<br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> <br>> Brendan Keith<br>> <br>> bkeith@...<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]<br>> On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods<br>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 AM<br>> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com<br>> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: distilling<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Alex,<br>> <br>> Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table<br>> sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or<br>> 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208<br>> ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4<br>> liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.<br>> <br>> Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume<br>> of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of<br>> sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the<br>> density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation<br>> will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density<br>> are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56<br>> lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16<br>> liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.<br>> <br>> When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 = 8.69kg total<br>> solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78<br>> liters per gallon)=7.56 liters<br>> <br>> The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L,<br>> which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter<br>> end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be<br>> perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the<br>> yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of that's figuring my 2<br>> gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you<br>> either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the<br>> density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic<br>> pressure right at the start.<br>> <br>> To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the<br>> amount of sugar.<br>> <br>> I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really<br>> important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to<br>> high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that<br>> the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your<br>> liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing.<br>> I know because I did it once.<br>> <br>> Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to<br>> design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table<br>> from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.<br>> http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf<br>> <br>> Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller<br>> <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/> Making<br>> Fine Spirits<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva regalsilva@<br>> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula 7 cups<br>> white sugar, 26 cups water, 24 grams baker's instant dry yeast = to 4<br>> lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it<br>> safe to use heat resistant plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle<br>> to copper cooling coil.<br>> My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted<br>> with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.<br>> <br>> Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose - more flexible<br>> arrangement than copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world<br>> country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard<br>> to come by. So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br><br>><br>

#43328 From: "Becool Stayslinky" <becoolstayslinky@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:28 am
Subject: Re: Wheat Mash
becoolstaysl...
Send Email Send Email
 
Oats   52-64 C
Buckwheat    60-85 C

One other thing about commercial enzymes - they are formulated for different
temperature ranges, some will work at very high temperatures.  The alpha amylase
that I use denatures around 160 but it will work at 185 just long enough to
reduce the viscosity to where the mash is easier to work with, but it is done
for within a few minutes.

BC

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks BC
>
> You blew me away with high amylose had no clue until I wiki'ed it.  If you
ever run across Gelatinization temperature for buckwheat and oats, I will be a
happy camper.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Becool Stayslinky <becoolstayslinky@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:26 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat Mash
>
>
>  
> This might be of interest from the alcohol textbook:
>
> Gelatinization temperature ranges of various feedstocks
>
> Corn
> Standard                62-72 C            ( 144-162 F )
> High amylose 1       67->80 C          ( 153-176 F )
> High amylose 2       67->80  C         ( 153-176 F )
> Barley                         52-59 C              ( 126-138 F )
> Rye                             57-70 C              ( 135-158 F )
> Rice (polished)             68-77 C              ( 154-171 F )
> Sorghum (milo)             68-77 C             ( 154-171 F )
> Wheat                             58-64 C            ( 136-147 F )
>
> This is the cooking temperature that you hold for an hour or so to hydrate the
starch molecules so that they enzymes can work on them. In my cooking procedure
I bring 7 gallons of water to a boil, turn off the heat and add 20 pounds of
finely ground wheat, with a little bit of enzyme mixed through the last few
pounds to make the mix more stirrable.  After all the grain is mixed in, the
temperature is at about 180-185, well above the required temp for cooking wheat,
but doesn't hurt it and speeds up the hydration of the starches. I it let stand
for about an hour, mixing occasionally before moving to the liquefaction step
where the alpha amylase enzyme is used.
>
> BTW- I make up the rest of the liquid content in the mash by adding ice blocks
to bring the temp down in the subsequent steps.
>
> BC
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "allibugger"  wrote:
> >
> > White Bear,
> > The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the
heat, pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the
yeast.  I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not.  I did not
grind the wheat.  Thanks.  Alli
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear  wrote:
> > >
> > > Alli-
> > >   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is
normal.  This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the
tendency to do this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get
ground wheat or grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will
settle down after a while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try
varying the grind on your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching
the yeast?
> > > WB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: allibugger
> > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> > > Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Howdy All,
> > >
> > > Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a
question.  I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with
a flaked wheat vodka recipe.  I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is
put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out.  This
also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and
still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up.
Is this a problem or just how it works?  Thanks
> > > Alli
> > >
> >
>

#43329 From: Carlos alberto Sanchez <s_carlosalberto@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:12 am
Subject: Re: Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller
s_carlosalberto
Send Email Send Email
 
YO SOY UN VERDADERO MILAGRO DE LA VIDA


De: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
Para: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Enviado: jueves, 7 de febrero de 2013 1:30
Asunto: Re: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
Awesome hobby.....

I have a 2 gallon pot still......from ebay....figured I'd go small to learn.

Two sugar/cornmeal runs later.........

Make plenty of mistakes........Almost think I understand the basics.

After 3.5 gallons of wash.............20 oz's of something....

:)

I love it





From: RLB <last2blast@...>
To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, February 6, 2013 10:02:34 PM
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
My last stripping run acquired 2 qts. of heads, hearts, and tails, and my pot still is 2.5 gal.  7.5 gal should give you around 2 gal., 30 gal around 7 gal.  Going bigger will get you noticed by the wrong people so be careful.  They are watching and don't like it when they don't get their tax money.

Robert 



From: Chuck <mcr2207@...>
To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
Very Funny Ben

I started with a 7.5 gallon and am now building a 30 Gal  Already thinking it might be too small.

Cheers



From: ben marks <nebskram@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 7:08 AM
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
SEND IT BACK AND GET A BIGGER ONE!

 
 ...ben
 
 
________________________________ 
 
  Whiskey is What Beer Wants to Be When it Grows Up
______________________
 
Your Car is German. Your Vodka is Russian. Your Pizza Italian. Your
Kebab is Turkish. Your Democracy is Greek. Your Coffee Brazilian.
Your Movies are American. Your Tea is Chinese
. Your Shirt is Mexican.
Your Oil is Saudi Arabian. Your Electronics are Japanese. Your Numbers  are

Arabic, Your Letters are Latin. Your Cocaine is Colombian. And you
Complain that your Neighbor is an Immigrant?
_________________________



To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: sir_mudduck@...
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 00:58:15 +0000
Subject: [new_distillers] Small Volume Hobby Size Distiller

 
I just recieved my small but functional unit. THe main chamber holds .7 liters. Does any one have expierance with this size device. Maybe some tips or tricks to save me some of the growing pains?









#43330 From: "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:01 pm
Subject: Re: More specific newbie questions:
tgfoitwoods
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey Damion,
<br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "damionpseudonym" <bloodpuddle@...> wrote:<br>><br>> Back again with another raft of newb questions; fortunately they're much more specific this time. Progress is being made (and I gotta say, it's all down to this list and ZB's book... you're a rockstar dude, seriously...)<br>>

Thanks(shuffle, blush) I'm glad it's working.

 <br>> Okay, so, I made a "coffeepot" still using an erlenmeyer flask (had some issues with a thermometer since the flask as a much narrower mouth than a coffee pot, but that was taken care of by using an in-oven model). Turns out the much longer lyne arm I built works out a treat for collection and a nice cool output.<br>> <br>> I've done a couple brandy runs using a large amount of red wine I had handy. The first was 1000ml and the next was 1500ml. I got roughly 9 to 11 ounces from each run. Chucked the heads and tails and wound up with 6 ounces kept from the 1000ml run and 8 ounces kept from the 1500ml run. I strongly suspect that I should have tossed more heads, as my results have a definite tang to them that is not something I want to consume.<br>>
On the wine I distilled in the book, I only reserved 4 ounces out of ~1500 ml.
 <br>> As far as heat went though, when I cranked the burner (electric hotplate, restaurant grade), the temp went straight to 89-90 and hovered there until I was on ounce 5 or 6, then it climbed steadily until it got to about 98 - 99, whereupon I stopped as the distillate was starting to smell and taste like a wet dog. When I would attempt to drop the heat to prevent it hitting 90 so fast, the drip rate would plummet to nil. The wine also stayed at a steady gentle boil. I had no puking since the flask is quite tall, but I'm still concerned about the temp.<br>>
Your first mistake was trying to control the head temperature by varying the heat input. You just turn the heat on high until you are almost at the boil and then turn it down to where it's just a simmering boil. Its boiling point will be whatever physics and the various liquid condentration in your wash say it will be, unless you turn the heat down so far that heat loss (bad, on this tiny still) stops your wash from boiling, and then head temp plummets. Admittedly, if you have the heat way up, liquid will evaporate faster, and the ABV will change faster, and the head temp will also change faster.
 <br>> So here's the questions:<br>> <br>> 1: What am I doing wrong with temp? More patience? Is it subject to altitude? (NorCal coastal where I am..) The temperature graph in he book was a ramp, mine seems to be more of a cliff with a line.<br>>

After it starts boiling, just hold it at a simmer and let it take care of its own temperature.
 <br>> 2: Since the temp was so at-variance with what's in ZB's book, how else do I estimate ABV? Should I just go get a hydrometer before I go any further? Kinda leaning that direction, and there's a lovely brew shop nearby that stocks them.<br>>
Sooner or later, you'll want a "Proof and Traille" hydrometer, specifically for testing the ABV of already-distilled spiirits (it won't work at all on your wash). If you ever get to Redding, find Jay at NorCal Brewing Solutions. He's used to working with distillers and has lots of knowledge and good stuff.
 <br>> 3: My output is VERY harsh. Is this normal? Compared to commercial brandy it's obviously overproof, which is fine, but is the aging what proves all the warmth and mellow tones? At this point I'm assuming I screwed up my cuts and going forward from there. I am also noticing it tastes strongly of raisins, for "brandy" distilled from red wine, is this normal or is the raisin flavor something else entirely?<br>>
First off, your undiluted spirit is probably 130 proof, and yes, by the sound of it, you have some heads in there. Diluting is not "required" as such, but most people will, just so the spirit is drinkable.
 <br>> 4: I have no intention of diluting at this point, is that step something that is required, or can I collect and start to age without it?<br>> <br>> 5: Can I take what I've got now, put it back in which the wine I have left, and re-distill it to remove the heads I should have removed before? I know I can put the tails back in, but can I do the same with the current product, or is it a writeoff?<br>>
In distilling, almost nothing is ever a writeoff; you can alsways re-distill. Instead of throwing away the heads and tails, which have lots of ethanol and flavor in them (but still throw away that first sample, the foreshots), save them and combine the outputs of 2 or 3 runs, load all that back into the still, and then do a spirit run. With the increased wash ABV, you'll see longer gentler temperature curves, and you'll have more time to make your cuts. Do yourself a favor and don't try to make the cuts (at first) while the still is running. Air out the distillate and make the cuts the next day or 2.
 <br>> 6: Are my input <--> output ratios normal? I had 1100ml of leftovers from a the 1500ml run.<br>>
Your output seems to be in the ballpark.
 <br>> Thanks a bunch.<br>> DeePseudo<br>><br>
You're very welcome. (You'd have had this sooner but the damned Yahoo reply ate the first one)

Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


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