White Bear,
The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the heat,
pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the yeast. 
I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not.  I did not grind the
wheat.  Thanks.  Alli

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@...> wrote:
>
> Alli-
>   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is normal. 
This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the tendency to do
this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get ground wheat or
grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will settle down after a
while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try varying the grind on
your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching the yeast?
> WB
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: allibugger <allibugger@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
>
>
>  
>
> Howdy All,
>
> Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a
question.  I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with
a flaked wheat vodka recipe.  I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is
put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out.  This
also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and
still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up.
Is this a problem or just how it works?  Thanks
> Alli
>

My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting small
bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't have a
sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait longer.

If the specific concern is with your alcohol burner, then there is some justification for concern. A lot of boats over the years have burned because of alcohol based stoves. One of the problems with alcohol burners is that alcohol burns with a blue flame that can be hard do see, so you may not realize you've had a leak and flame is spreading until you get secondary fires starting.

Like others have said, you should probably replace the alcohol burner. Alcohol burns at a pretty low (relatively speaking) temperature. This will end up making the long distilling process even longer. Waiting for a "kettle to boil" is boring... Go with propane or a white gas (coleman) stove. They put out a lot of heat and are much more controllable...

ahandyman59

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 22:46:51 -0000, "Mark" <stagof7@...> wrote:

 

To take the plunge into distilling I got an alembic pot still with an alcohol burner as heat source. So far I've distilled a bit of water to try it out and check for leaks. A couple of people I've spoken to have warned me that the open flame alcohol burner is very dangerous. If I use tubing to direct the distillate from the condenser a foot or so from the flame is there really any danger?

And "thank you" to all for the advice I've already received from the members here.

Mark

.

You're talking about the basis of tequila, right?

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:40:55 -0000, "jsducote" <jsducote@...> wrote:

 

Dry/powdered agave nectar is widely available and more easily transported than barrels of wort. If you can't find it in your local supermarket, try the asian or hispanic markets if you have one near you. It's often labelled as cactus honey. Is it exactly the same? No, of course not, but I imagine it's close enough for experimentation. It's widely used as a honey substitute although it's a lot more fructose than glucose, as opposed to honey, which is about equal parts fruc/gluc (wikipedia). It does have a honey-like flavor to it, so consider that in your recipe. It's more expensive than plain sugar, so I would think it should be used as an ingredient for its taste (pot/low-reflux still) as opposed to its price.

As for your northern greenhouse, I hope you have several acres and even more patience.
-j

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB wrote:
>
> Just read up on agave.  Interesting!  It might be worth it to go down south and mixing barrels of agave wort and bring those barrels north to finish fermenting to distill.  Stirring is good, so that long drive back would keep it will stirred.  I wonder how well they would do in a northern greenhouse?
>
> Robert
>
> ________________________________
> From: Donnie
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 2:10 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] agave
>
> eany of you ever use pure agave whater a yeast??

 

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

.

Why dont you invest in a hydrometer, takes the guess work out of the equation.
In answer to your question, yes its probably done.
Dave E
--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Derek" <justweldit41@...> wrote:
>
>  My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting small
bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't have a
sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait longer.
>

This might be of interest from the alcohol textbook:

Gelatinization temperature ranges of various feedstocks

Corn
      Standard                62-72 C            ( 144-162 F )
     High amylose 1       67->80 C          ( 153-176 F )
     High amylose 2       67->80  C         ( 153-176 F )
Barley                         52-59 C              ( 126-138 F )
Rye                             57-70 C              ( 135-158 F )
Rice (polished)             68-77 C              ( 154-171 F )
Sorghum (milo)             68-77 C             ( 154-171 F )
Wheat                             58-64 C            ( 136-147 F )

This is the cooking temperature that you hold for an hour or so to hydrate the
starch molecules so that they enzymes can work on them. In my cooking procedure
I bring 7 gallons of water to a boil, turn off the heat and add 20 pounds of
finely ground wheat, with a little bit of enzyme mixed through the last few
pounds to make the mix more stirrable.  After all the grain is mixed in, the
temperature is at about 180-185, well above the required temp for cooking wheat,
but doesn't hurt it and speeds up the hydration of the starches. I it let stand
for about an hour, mixing occasionally before moving to the liquefaction step
where the alpha amylase enzyme is used.

BTW- I make up the rest of the liquid content in the mash by adding ice blocks
to bring the temp down in the subsequent steps.

BC

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "allibugger" <allibugger@...> wrote:
>
> White Bear,
> The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the heat,
pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the yeast. 
I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not.  I did not grind the
wheat.  Thanks.  Alli
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@> wrote:
> >
> > Alli-
> >   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is normal. 
This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the tendency to do
this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get ground wheat or
grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will settle down after a
while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try varying the grind on
your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching the yeast?
> > WB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: allibugger <allibugger@>
> > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> > Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Howdy All,
> >
> > Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a
question.  I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with
a flaked wheat vodka recipe.  I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is
put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out.  This
also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and
still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up.
Is this a problem or just how it works?  Thanks
> > Alli
> >
>

What is the perfect temp to cook each grain or is there just one temp that will
do for all grains.

I ask because I have seen many different temps listed.

Robert

Thank you Dave and White Bear,
   I had bought a hydrometer, but it was for distilled product, so ill have to
get another one, thank you for the info.  This is my first mash so its all new
to me.
Thanks again

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@...> wrote:
>
> Derek-
> I agree with Dave, it is done.  I made wine for 40+ years most of them
without a hydrometer and have come up with some very fine stuff.  Check out
your fermentation lock and count the times it bubbles.  If it is above 1 per
minute it is done and ready for your next step.
>  
> White Bear
>  
> P.S. Do invest in a hydrometer, there is more to it then just checking if your
mash is done.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:34 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Fermentation
>
>
>  
>
>
> Why dont you invest in a hydrometer, takes the guess work out of the equation.
In answer to your question, yes its probably done.
> Dave E
> --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "Derek"  wrote:
> >
> >  My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting
small bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't
have a sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait
longer.
> >
>

Thank you Dave and White Bear,
   I had bought a hydrometer, but it was for distilled product, so ill have to
get another one, thank you for the info.  This is my first mash so its all new
to me.
Thanks again

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear <sha_man_1@...> wrote:
>
> Derek-
> I agree with Dave, it is done.  I made wine for 40+ years most of them
without a hydrometer and have come up with some very fine stuff.  Check out
your fermentation lock and count the times it bubbles.  If it is above 1 per
minute it is done and ready for your next step.
>  
> White Bear
>  
> P.S. Do invest in a hydrometer, there is more to it then just checking if your
mash is done.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:34 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Fermentation
>
>
>  
>
>
> Why dont you invest in a hydrometer, takes the guess work out of the equation.
In answer to your question, yes its probably done.
> Dave E
> --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "Derek"  wrote:
> >
> >  My mash has been going for six or seven days now, And I'm still getting
small bubbles coming up through it but it is cleared up pretty good, It doesn't
have a sweet taste, So my question is, is it done now or do I need to wait
longer.
> >
>

 

What is the perfect temp to cook each grain or is there just one temp that will do for all grains.

I ask because I have seen many different temps listed.

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 AM
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: distilling

 

Alex,

Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208 ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4 liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.

Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56 lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16 liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.

When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 =  8.69kg total solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78 liters per gallon)=7.56 liters

The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L, which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of  that's figuring my 2 gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic pressure right at the start.

To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the amount of sugar.

I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing. I know because I did it once.

Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf

Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


<br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva <regalsilva@...> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.<br>>       My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   <br>>      Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br>

Back again with another raft of newb questions; fortunately they're much more
specific this time. Progress is being made (and I gotta say, it's all down to
this list and ZB's book... you're a rockstar dude, seriously...)

Okay, so, I made a "coffeepot" still using an erlenmeyer flask (had some issues
with a thermometer since the flask as a much narrower mouth than a coffee pot,
but that was taken care of by using an in-oven model). Turns out the much longer
lyne arm I built works out a treat for collection and a nice cool output.

I've done a couple brandy runs using a large amount of red wine I had handy. The
first was 1000ml and the next was 1500ml. I got roughly 9 to 11 ounces from each
run. Chucked the heads and tails and wound up with 6 ounces kept from the 1000ml
run and 8 ounces kept from the 1500ml run. I strongly suspect that I should have
tossed more heads, as my results have a definite tang to them that is not
something I want to consume.

As far as heat went though, when I cranked the burner (electric hotplate,
restaurant grade), the temp went straight to 89-90 and hovered there until I was
on ounce 5 or 6, then it climbed steadily until it got to about 98 - 99,
whereupon I stopped as the distillate was starting to smell and taste like a wet
dog. When I would attempt to drop the heat to prevent it hitting 90 so fast, the
drip rate would plummet to nil. The wine also stayed at a steady gentle boil. I
had no puking since the flask is quite tall, but I'm still concerned about the
temp.

So here's the questions:

1: What am I doing wrong with temp? More patience? Is it subject to altitude?
(NorCal coastal where I am..) The temperature graph in he book was a ramp, mine
seems to be more of a cliff with a line.

2: Since the temp was so at-variance with what's in ZB's book, how else do I
estimate ABV? Should I just go get a hydrometer before I go any further? Kinda
leaning that direction, and there's a lovely brew shop nearby that stocks them.

3: My output is VERY harsh. Is this normal? Compared to commercial brandy it's
obviously overproof, which is fine, but is the aging what proves all the warmth
and mellow tones? At this point I'm assuming I screwed up my cuts and going
forward from there. I am also noticing it tastes strongly of raisins, for
"brandy" distilled from red wine, is this normal or is the raisin flavor
something else entirely?

4: I have no intention of diluting at this point, is that step something that is
required, or can I collect and start to age without it?

5: Can I take what I've got now, put it back in which the wine I have left, and
re-distill it to remove the heads I should have removed before? I know I can put
the tails back in, but can I do the same with the current product, or is it a
writeoff?

6: Are my input <--> output ratios normal? I had 1100ml of leftovers from a the
1500ml run.

Thanks a bunch.
DeePseudo

But I have READ a TON.... I purchased a nixon stone offset head still and have
it sitting atop a 15.5 gal keg as the pot.  this reflux still has 2 ports for
temp probes... I have a guide to the approx temps and such for the cuts.. (Taste
smell and touch will be the determining factor) however.. one port at the top of
the condensor coil and one port at the top of the column...

My 1st question is... Where to take the readings for the cuts? top of the column
or top of the condensor ?

there is a ton of info out there for a pot still but not a lot or this offset
head one.  I may have to do this trial and error which is fine... But any
information would be greatly appreciated... I have not fired it up yet at all...
I will be running my first clean up run in the next few days 50/50 vinegar/water
x 2 then a simple sugar mash just to push out alcohol  to finish out the
cleaning process...

At the moment I have no cooling on the output just the condensor, what are your
guys thoughts on this? since its a reflux its already condensed so no real need
for the external cooling?

Any input or an idiots guide to this type would be awesome...


Thanks

Oats   52-64 C
Buckwheat    60-85 C

One other thing about commercial enzymes - they are formulated for different
temperature ranges, some will work at very high temperatures.  The alpha amylase
that I use denatures around 160 but it will work at 185 just long enough to
reduce the viscosity to where the mash is easier to work with, but it is done
for within a few minutes.

BC

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks BC
>
> You blew me away with high amylose had no clue until I wiki'ed it.  If you
ever run across Gelatinization temperature for buckwheat and oats, I will be a
happy camper.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Becool Stayslinky <becoolstayslinky@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:26 PM
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat Mash
>
>
>  
> This might be of interest from the alcohol textbook:
>
> Gelatinization temperature ranges of various feedstocks
>
> Corn
> Standard                62-72 C            ( 144-162 F )
> High amylose 1       67->80 C          ( 153-176 F )
> High amylose 2       67->80  C         ( 153-176 F )
> Barley                         52-59 C              ( 126-138 F )
> Rye                             57-70 C              ( 135-158 F )
> Rice (polished)             68-77 C              ( 154-171 F )
> Sorghum (milo)             68-77 C             ( 154-171 F )
> Wheat                             58-64 C            ( 136-147 F )
>
> This is the cooking temperature that you hold for an hour or so to hydrate the
starch molecules so that they enzymes can work on them. In my cooking procedure
I bring 7 gallons of water to a boil, turn off the heat and add 20 pounds of
finely ground wheat, with a little bit of enzyme mixed through the last few
pounds to make the mix more stirrable.  After all the grain is mixed in, the
temperature is at about 180-185, well above the required temp for cooking wheat,
but doesn't hurt it and speeds up the hydration of the starches. I it let stand
for about an hour, mixing occasionally before moving to the liquefaction step
where the alpha amylase enzyme is used.
>
> BTW- I make up the rest of the liquid content in the mash by adding ice blocks
to bring the temp down in the subsequent steps.
>
> BC
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "allibugger"  wrote:
> >
> > White Bear,
> > The recipe called for heating the water to 165 degrees, turning off the
heat, pitching the wheat and letting it cool to 85 degrees before pitching the
yeast.  I don't know if that is what you call cooking it or not.  I did not
grind the wheat.  Thanks.  Alli
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, White Bear  wrote:
> > >
> > > Alli-
> > >   With a lot of grain mashes there will be some floating, this is
normal.  This is called "the cap"  Wheat being so fiberous will have the
tendency to do this more if you are using whole or cracked wheat.  Try to get
ground wheat or grind your own.  The cap will soon waterlog and things will
settle down after a while.  Just keep stirring the cap into the mash and try
varying the grind on your next batch.  Did you cook the mash before pitching
the yeast?
> > > WB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: allibugger
> > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:21 PM
> > > Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Mash
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Howdy All,
> > >
> > > Reading the recent questions/answers regarding mashing processes, I have a
question.  I have tried several corn based recipes and am now experimenting with
a flaked wheat vodka recipe.  I notice after the yeast is pitched and the top is
put on the fermenter, the wheat floats to the top and somewhat dries out.  This
also seems to slow down the fermentation process - when I take the top off and
still it well, the bubbling picks up for a while until the wheat floats back up.
Is this a problem or just how it works?  Thanks
> > > Alli
> > >
> >
>