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  • Category: Food and Drink
  • Founded: Mar 20, 2000
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#42789 From: "andyrud3" <andyrud@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:10 pm
Subject: How Do I Filter?
andyrud3
Send Email Send Email
 
I read lots of past posts about filtering with "activated carbon" but couldn't
find any info about it.  What is it, where do I get it and how do I use it?  Is
there a simple filter like a water filter I can buy for filtering?

thanks in advance,

Andy

#42790 From: tonyjones60@...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Gasket Material
akjones1966
Send Email Send Email
 
For goodness sakes man; do not use flip-flops! Perhaps these folks can help:

http://www.stilldragon.com/gaskets--seals.html

#42791 From: "skub13" <chris2pher13@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:17 am
Subject: Feeling lucky to be alive...
skub13
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all, i took up distilling about a year back and stupidly enough didn't
research it at all, just went "hey chuck this all together and see what i get."
Using nothing but un-distilled water, white el-cheapo brand sugar, instant dry
yeast and unclean equipment i somehow came out with a 17% product which i then
drank. after then researching it a bit i feel luck that i didn't kill my self
with wood alcohol or bacteria and i have now decided to take it up again and
advice would be appreciated.

Please and thanks.

#42792 From: "mccumster" <dmccallum76@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:30 am
Subject: Carbon Filtering
mccumster
Send Email Send Email
 
How much alcohol do you lose with carbon filtering? Is there a substantial drop
in the proof?

#42793 From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:34 pm
Subject: Re: How Do I Filter?
sha_man_1
Send Email Send Email
 
Andy-
  I use oak sticks to "polish" my product.  Don't use Red Oak as I find this leaves a bitter taste which I don't find palatable.
  Cut the sticks into strips 1/2" x 1/2' x ? length.  (whatever fits into your "polishing container").  I use a gallon glass wide mouth canning jar.  Char the pieces until they look like an alligator, this is known as alligator char.  Toss them into a bucket of clean water to stop the charring and pull them out to dry.  When cool, I put 7 sticks in my jar and fill it with my cut.  This is left for three weeks, shaking the jar twice daily.  I like this polishing as it really smooths the final product.  The longer you age the strained product the mellower it gets.
White Bear

From: andyrud3 <andyrud@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: [new_distillers] How Do I Filter?
 
I read lots of past posts about filtering with "activated carbon" but couldn't find any info about it. What is it, where do I get it and how do I use it? Is there a simple filter like a water filter I can buy for filtering?

thanks in advance,

Andy

 

#42794 From: M L <kekedog13@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:35 pm
Subject: Re: How Do I Filter?
kekedog13
Send Email Send Email
 
You can use a Britta water filter or there are ready made ones for distillers. One is a "snake" filter and one is called a "Z" filter or you can make  you're own out of a length of PVC.A lot of home grew suppliers carry activated carbon. Also there's a lot of good info on how to use carbon at the " Home Distillation of Alcohol" site. Here's one of many shops and the HD link.http://homedistiller.org/  here's the link to a good "distiller friendly" shop  http://www.store.homebrew4less.com/default.asp . And I take it you haven't been to the "Artisan Distillers" site yet , much to learn there, A REALLY GREAT place to study ,http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/index.php. Enjoy

--- On Wed, 11/14/12, andyrud3 <andyrud@...> wrote:

From: andyrud3 <andyrud@...>
Subject: [new_distillers] How Do I Filter?
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012, 9:10 AM

 

I read lots of past posts about filtering with "activated carbon" but couldn't find any info about it. What is it, where do I get it and how do I use it? Is there a simple filter like a water filter I can buy for filtering?

thanks in advance,

Andy


#42795 From: "skub13" <chris2pher13@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:45 am
Subject: Just starting.
skub13
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey all im looking for an easy recipe for getting started i've got most of the
equipment required but i cant seem to find any simple recipes for newbies :(

please help!!!

#42796 From: "andyrud3" <andyrud@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: How Do I Filter?
andyrud3
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
>

Thanks guys for the great info,

Andy

> You can use a Britta water filter or there are ready made ones for distillers.
One is a "snake" filter and one is called a "Z" filter or you can make  you're
own out of a length of PVC.A lot of home grew suppliers carry activated carbon.
Also there's a lot of good info on how to use carbon at the " Home Distillation
of Alcohol" site. Here's one of many shops and the HD
link.http://homedistiller.org/  here's the link to a good "distiller friendly"
shop  http://www.store.homebrew4less.com/default.asp . And I take it you
haven't been to the "Artisan Distillers" site yet , much to learn there, A
REALLY GREAT place to study ,http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/index.php.
Enjoy
>
> --- On Wed, 11/14/12, andyrud3 <andyrud@...> wrote:
>
> From: andyrud3 <andyrud@...>
> Subject: [new_distillers] How Do I Filter?
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012, 9:10 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       I read lots of past posts about filtering with "activated carbon" but
couldn't find any info about it.  What is it, where do I get it and how do I use
it?  Is there a simple filter like a water filter I can buy for filtering?
>
>
>
> thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Andy
>

#42797 From: "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:37 am
Subject: Re: Feeling lucky to be alive...
tgfoitwoods
Send Email Send Email
 
Well, you'll never get wood alcohol (methanol) from a sugar wash, and once you've run it through the still bacteria is a thing of the past, but you'll get better tasting stuff (as well as more reliable fermentations) with a little less sugar and some good yeast nutrients. You'll find the yeast nutrients (with instructions) at your local homebrew supply.

Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all, i took up distilling about a year back and stupidly enough didn't research it at all, just went "hey chuck this all together and see what i get."
> Using nothing but un-distilled water, white el-cheapo brand sugar, instant dry yeast and unclean equipment i somehow came out with a 17% product which i then drank. after then researching it a bit i feel luck that i didn't kill my self with wood alcohol or bacteria and i have now decided to take it up again and advice would be appreciated.
>
> Please and thanks.
>

#42798 From: "bbbob194713" <bbbob@...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:12 am
Subject: Enzymes in Australia
bbbob194713
Send Email Send Email
 
I want to try my hand at bourbon with barley and corn but the malted barley is
to expensive for me and I cannot seem to germinate barley successfully, So I was
thinking about using enzymes instead of the malted barley.
do you no where I can get enzymes in Australia
and if you got a good recipe for bourbon, I would appreciate that

Thanks to all
bbbob

#42799 From: "grainbrewer" <gavin_flett@...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:42 pm
Subject: PID Controller
grainbrewer
Send Email Send Email
 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with
electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions.
Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into
lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model #
CN-PBC302-120V.

#42800 From: Bill Rogers <bill.rogers@...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:02 pm
Subject: Re: How Do I Filter?
tucciim
Send Email Send Email
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxVHip4b0eI

I haven't tried this yet but it looks slick


On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:10 AM, andyrud3 <andyrud@...> wrote:
 

I read lots of past posts about filtering with "activated carbon" but couldn't find any info about it. What is it, where do I get it and how do I use it? Is there a simple filter like a water filter I can buy for filtering?

thanks in advance,

Andy



#42801 From: Chris Riddiford <chris2pher13@...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:18 am
Subject: Re: Re: Feeling lucky to be alive...
skub13
Send Email Send Email
 
Well good to know that I can see I still have a lot to learn and still as
egar as ever to get a nice sold batch,  one more question with distill I'm
highly confussed.
How long should I let a 20L batch distill for and how much should I have at
the end?

#42802 From: Chris Riddiford <chris2pher13@...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:06 am
Subject: Re: How Do I Filter?
skub13
Send Email Send Email
 

You should be able to buy carbon filters from any local brewing supplier. Mine are as simple as a funnle with a carbon block in it simply poor it in and let it go.

On Nov 15, 2012 4:11 AM, "andyrud3" <andyrud@...> wrote:
 

I read lots of past posts about filtering with "activated carbon" but couldn't find any info about it. What is it, where do I get it and how do I use it? Is there a simple filter like a water filter I can buy for filtering?

thanks in advance,

Andy


#42803 From: laxt57@...
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:58 pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller
laxt57
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.


#42804 From: virgil hoskins <varminteater2003@...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:18 am
Subject: Re: PID Controller
varminteater...
Send Email Send Email
 
And thats why i have enjoyed this group for the last year ,,
Brothers helping brothers,,
virgil

From: "laxt57@..." <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller
 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 amSubject: [new_distillers] PID Controller
 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.

#42805 From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:42 am
Subject: Re: PID Controller
robertglicksman
Send Email Send Email
 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.


#42806 From: "GGB" <self.adhesive@...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:11 am
Subject: Re: PID Controller
girlguidebis...
Send Email Send Email
 
I built one of these and its gives excellent manual control from 0W up to about
3kW. I haven't done my first distillation yet but I expect it would be just the
ticket. http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/Immersion_Heater_controller.pdf  Matt
Stevens was very helpful with my questions.

Paul

#42807 From: laxt57@...
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:08 am
Subject: Re: PID Controller
laxt57
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Bob
Did you read the technical publication  for this controller?
SYL-2372
I did
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.


#42808 From: "Byron" <odiekokee@...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:24 pm
Subject: Question about end of fermenting
odiekokee
Send Email Send Email
 
Is there any harm in leaving the mash to sit for a period of time (anywhere from
a day to a month) beyond the end of yeast activity? Want to be sure I won't
cause trouble for myself by waiting until I have time to finish the process.

Thanks.

#42809 From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:21 am
Subject: Re: PID Controller
robertglicksman
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Jeri,
 
As I said, no I do not have the technical manual.  I was just pointing out that proportional control of the heating element is not possible with an electromechnaical relay.  The heater is either on or off, and the relay cannot be cycled fast enough to make it pseudo-analog.  If a thermostate-like mode is supported by the PID controller, that is fine, as long as this type of operation is acceptable to Gavin.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi Bob
Did you read the technical publication  for this controller?
SYL-2372
I did
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.


#42810 From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:28 am
Subject: Re: Question about end of fermenting
robertglicksman
Send Email Send Email
 
While most bacteria will be killed by 10% or so alcohol, the bacteria that turn your "wine" into vinegar will not be so affected.  I suggest sterilizing the mash (the "beer", actually).  You can add potassium metabisulfite or sodium bisulfite (campden tablets - crushed) to the beer.  Either of these compounds will dissolve and generate sulfer dioxide gas -- a food sterilizing agent.  Bottle up your beer so that there is very little air and the bottle is sealed.  In other words, just the way they bottle up wine.  You can buy these chemicals in any wine or beer making store or on-line of course).
-----Original Message-----
From: Byron <odiekokee@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm
Subject: [new_distillers] Question about end of fermenting

 
Is there any harm in leaving the mash to sit for a period of time (anywhere from a day to a month) beyond the end of yeast activity? Want to be sure I won't cause trouble for myself by waiting until I have time to finish the process.

Thanks.


#42811 From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:03 am
Subject: RE: PID Controller
grainbrewer
Send Email Send Email
 
Guys, I don't know the first thing about PID's. The terms used are mostly foreign to me, hence my trouble so far. If this is the wrong setup, then someone please tell me what I need to run a 2000W heating element for a RIMS.


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:21:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Hi Jeri,
 
As I said, no I do not have the technical manual.  I was just pointing out that proportional control of the heating element is not possible with an electromechnaical relay.  The heater is either on or off, and the relay cannot be cycled fast enough to make it pseudo-analog.  If a thermostate-like mode is supported by the PID controller, that is fine, as long as this type of operation is acceptable to Gavin.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi Bob
Did you read the technical publication  for this controller?
SYL-2372
I did
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.



#42812 From: "JoeK" <joeklaus313@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:11 pm
Subject: Bottom of the jar??
joeklaus313
Send Email Send Email
 
I have some really good whisky that I aged with oak and raisens and I think
thats about it. Anyway there is this very fine plasma looking stuff at the
bottem of the jar that gets through a coffee filter everytime. I'm pretty sure
its from the raisens. How do I get it out?



                                                 Happy Thanksgiving

#42813 From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:17 pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller
robertglicksman
Send Email Send Email
 
Gavin,
 
I searched out the manual and you should wire it as Jeri suggests.  If you use an external contactor to control power to your heater, the PID controller will cycle it slowly -- turn it on for some number of seconds, then off and repeat every 100 seconds or so.  The heat output from the 2KW heater will vary as this happens, but the PID controller will attempt to hold the temperature as closely as possible.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:03 pm
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Guys, I don't know the first thing about PID's. The terms used are mostly foreign to me, hence my trouble so far. If this is the wrong setup, then someone please tell me what I need to run a 2000W heating element for a RIMS.


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:21:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Hi Jeri,
 
As I said, no I do not have the technical manual.  I was just pointing out that proportional control of the heating element is not possible with an electromechnaical relay.  The heater is either on or off, and the relay cannot be cycled fast enough to make it pseudo-analog.  If a thermostate-like mode is supported by the PID controller, that is fine, as long as this type of operation is acceptable to Gavin.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi Bob
Did you read the technical publication  for this controller?
SYL-2372
I did
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.



#42814 From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:32 pm
Subject: RE: PID Controller
grainbrewer
Send Email Send Email
 
Ok, so it sounds like a similar method of operation to my Johnston A-419 temperature controller which basically turned it on full blast for a bit, then turned it off. I saw temperature variances of up to 5 degrees. For instance I wanted to achieve a temperature of 64C, and it would end up all the way at 69C. Does the PID setup smooth out the heat fluctuations at all, a little bit or a lot?


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Gavin,
 
I searched out the manual and you should wire it as Jeri suggests.  If you use an external contactor to control power to your heater, the PID controller will cycle it slowly -- turn it on for some number of seconds, then off and repeat every 100 seconds or so.  The heat output from the 2KW heater will vary as this happens, but the PID controller will attempt to hold the temperature as closely as possible.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:03 pm
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Guys, I don't know the first thing about PID's. The terms used are mostly foreign to me, hence my trouble so far. If this is the wrong setup, then someone please tell me what I need to run a 2000W heating element for a RIMS.


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:21:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Hi Jeri,
 
As I said, no I do not have the technical manual.  I was just pointing out that proportional control of the heating element is not possible with an electromechnaical relay.  The heater is either on or off, and the relay cannot be cycled fast enough to make it pseudo-analog.  If a thermostate-like mode is supported by the PID controller, that is fine, as long as this type of operation is acceptable to Gavin.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi Bob
Did you read the technical publication  for this controller?
SYL-2372
I did
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.




#42815 From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:06 pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller
robertglicksman
Send Email Send Email
 
The PID setup is intended to smooth this out somewhat.  The data sheet specifies 1 deg F, but I don't know under what conditions they test this under.  You have to follow the auto-tune procedure in the manual in order for its "fuzzy logic" to learn the time constants of your specific system and figure out when to cycle the heater power on and off so that it doesn't overshoot or undershoot as much as a simple thermostat would.  There is also a thermostat "on/off" mode, but configuring the controller for this mode will probably result in the same amount of overshoot that you experienced previously.  So use the PID mode with auto-tune and let us know who well this controller did for you.
 
I personally much prefer controllers for SSRs, since SSRs can switch very fast and the PID controller can then use a one second cycle or less vs 100 second cycle for a contactor.  This has a much greater potential to keep a very even flow of heat and thus much tighter temperature control.  This PID controller does have an SSR output, but it is only for 3 amps - too little for your 2KW heater.  It is designed for use with an external contactor and you already have the contactor, so hook it up and see how well it works. 
 
If you are trying to control heat to control proof in a still, you might be better off to try some sort of automatic reflux control vs trying to keep the heat input controlled very tightly.  The book:  http://www.amphora-society.com/Designing-and-Building-Automatic-Stills-2nd-Edition--by-Riku_p_3.html has a lot of good information about this. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Ok, so it sounds like a similar method of operation to my Johnston A-419 temperature controller which basically turned it on full blast for a bit, then turned it off. I saw temperature variances of up to 5 degrees. For instance I wanted to achieve a temperature of 64C, and it would end up all the way at 69C. Does the PID setup smooth out the heat fluctuations at all, a little bit or a lot?


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Gavin,
 
I searched out the manual and you should wire it as Jeri suggests.  If you use an external contactor to control power to your heater, the PID controller will cycle it slowly -- turn it on for some number of seconds, then off and repeat every 100 seconds or so.  The heat output from the 2KW heater will vary as this happens, but the PID controller will attempt to hold the temperature as closely as possible.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:03 pm
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Guys, I don't know the first thing about PID's. The terms used are mostly foreign to me, hence my trouble so far. If this is the wrong setup, then someone please tell me what I need to run a 2000W heating element for a RIMS.


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:21:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Hi Jeri,
 
As I said, no I do not have the technical manual.  I was just pointing out that proportional control of the heating element is not possible with an electromechnaical relay.  The heater is either on or off, and the relay cannot be cycled fast enough to make it pseudo-analog.  If a thermostate-like mode is supported by the PID controller, that is fine, as long as this type of operation is acceptable to Gavin.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi Bob
Did you read the technical publication  for this controller?
SYL-2372
I did
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.




#42816 From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:40 pm
Subject: RE: PID Controller
grainbrewer
Send Email Send Email
 
Cool, great info. I am actually using it for a barley mash process. So if I understand correctly, an SSR performs the same functions as a PID, but better? If this is the case, can I purchase one that will work with my heating element?


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:06:38 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

The PID setup is intended to smooth this out somewhat.  The data sheet specifies 1 deg F, but I don't know under what conditions they test this under.  You have to follow the auto-tune procedure in the manual in order for its "fuzzy logic" to learn the time constants of your specific system and figure out when to cycle the heater power on and off so that it doesn't overshoot or undershoot as much as a simple thermostat would.  There is also a thermostat "on/off" mode, but configuring the controller for this mode will probably result in the same amount of overshoot that you experienced previously.  So use the PID mode with auto-tune and let us know who well this controller did for you.
 
I personally much prefer controllers for SSRs, since SSRs can switch very fast and the PID controller can then use a one second cycle or less vs 100 second cycle for a contactor.  This has a much greater potential to keep a very even flow of heat and thus much tighter temperature control.  This PID controller does have an SSR output, but it is only for 3 amps - too little for your 2KW heater.  It is designed for use with an external contactor and you already have the contactor, so hook it up and see how well it works. 
 
If you are trying to control heat to control proof in a still, you might be better off to try some sort of automatic reflux control vs trying to keep the heat input controlled very tightly.  The book:  http://www.amphora-society.com/Designing-and-Building-Automatic-Stills-2nd-Edition--by-Riku_p_3.html has a lot of good information about this. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Ok, so it sounds like a similar method of operation to my Johnston A-419 temperature controller which basically turned it on full blast for a bit, then turned it off. I saw temperature variances of up to 5 degrees. For instance I wanted to achieve a temperature of 64C, and it would end up all the way at 69C. Does the PID setup smooth out the heat fluctuations at all, a little bit or a lot?


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Gavin,
 
I searched out the manual and you should wire it as Jeri suggests.  If you use an external contactor to control power to your heater, the PID controller will cycle it slowly -- turn it on for some number of seconds, then off and repeat every 100 seconds or so.  The heat output from the 2KW heater will vary as this happens, but the PID controller will attempt to hold the temperature as closely as possible.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:03 pm
Subject: RE: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Guys, I don't know the first thing about PID's. The terms used are mostly foreign to me, hence my trouble so far. If this is the wrong setup, then someone please tell me what I need to run a 2000W heating element for a RIMS.


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: bobg542492@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:21:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 

Hi Jeri,
 
As I said, no I do not have the technical manual.  I was just pointing out that proportional control of the heating element is not possible with an electromechnaical relay.  The heater is either on or off, and the relay cannot be cycled fast enough to make it pseudo-analog.  If a thermostate-like mode is supported by the PID controller, that is fine, as long as this type of operation is acceptable to Gavin.
 
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi Bob
Did you read the technical publication  for this controller?
SYL-2372
I did
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I don't know this particular PID controller, but if it is going to use a PID algorithm (proportional-integral-differential control), then it needs to adjust the heater output, not just turn it on and off.  Some PIDs can rapidly switch an SSR in order to adjust the heat output.  They do this for turning on the relay for some number of AC half-cycles (about 16 ms each half cycle for 60 Hz AC), since the heater's response time is much slower and will average out the electric power being modulated in this way.  But this type of operation requires a fast electric power switching device (an SSR).  A contactor or other electromechanical relay is too slow to do this (and rapidly switching one on and off all of the time will wear it out in notime flat). 

The only thing that you can realistically do with an electromechanical relay switching power to an electric heater is implement a "deadzone" type of control -- like an ordinary thermostat.  I'm not sure that this PID controller can do this.  Most PID controllers are far more expensive than a simple thermostat and there would be no reason to support this mode of operation.


-----Original Message-----
From: laxt57 <laxt57@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
Hi
Sure, simple as piece of cake.
The number 9 and 10 terminals provide power to the PID
(only for the PID not the heating element)
The 6 and 7 terminals control a relay for some sort of device
The 4 and 5 terminals are input from a thermocouple

So, I assume you are using this to control a heating element?
To make it work, you will need contactor(relay) big enough to run
your heating element.
Also you will need a thermocouple  and a heating element of course
The thermocouple is polarity sensitive, so you need to connect it
the right way round, that is if you are asking form hot and you get cold
swap 4 and 5

----------------
|               |   4---------------- Thermocouple +
|     PID     |   5---------------  Thermocouple -
|               |   6---------------  Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
|               |   7---------------- Contactor------------------- coil RELAY--------- heater
----------------                                                        AC   AC
  9      10                                                            IN    IN
 AC    AC
  IN    IN

Hope this helps
Jeri



-----Original Message-----
From: grainbrewer <gavin_flett@...>
To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:42 am
Subject: [new_distillers] PID Controller

 
I recently purchased a PID Controller. Not being at all familiar with electronics, I am having a very difficult time understanding the instructions. Is it possible for someone to read the instructions and translate them into lamens terms for me? Mostly I am unfamiliar with the wiring diagram and symbols.

The PID is an Auberins SYL-2372 and I have a contacter to go with it model # CN-PBC302-120V.





#42817 From: "GGB" <self.adhesive@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:48 pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller
girlguidebis...
Send Email Send Email
 
> Cool, great info. I am actually using it for a barley mash process. So if I
understand correctly, an SSR performs the same functions as a PID, but better?

No, they're completely different things. The PID is a logic "brain" that
attempts according to the parameters you program in to shoot for a particular
temperature. It determines how long the element is "on" or "off" and makes
adjustments according to results.

SSR stands for Solid State Relay. It's really just an electronic switch - it has
no moving parts. It is the equivalent of the contactor but because the contactor
has moving parts it is not capable of switching power off and on to the element
frequently without destroying itself.

Your PID itself is able to switch loads of up to 3 amps, but this is well short
of 2000 Watts. Remember that Watts = Voltage x Amps. Re-arrange this formula to
get W/V = A, and depending on what your voltage is this will tell you how many
Amps capability you need.

So you employ a contactor, or SSR, to do the heavy-duty switching because these
are capable of handling many more amps.

There is one thing to remember with a SSR, and that is if they fail they switch,
as far as I understand, to full on and will not turn off. The SSR has its own
connection to voltage mains. So, as with all setups like this, you should always
supervise operation.

Paul

#42818 From: Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:20 am
Subject: RE: Re: PID Controller
grainbrewer
Send Email Send Email
 
Now that's what I have been searching for. a lamens description of what a PID and an SSR does. Thanks

How do the beer brewers do this then, what kind of W heating element do they use? Is it multiple low wattage elements?


To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
From: self.adhesive@...
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 23:48:08 +0000
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: PID Controller

 

> Cool, great info. I am actually using it for a barley mash process. So if I understand correctly, an SSR performs the same functions as a PID, but better?

No, they're completely different things. The PID is a logic "brain" that attempts according to the parameters you program in to shoot for a particular temperature. It determines how long the element is "on" or "off" and makes adjustments according to results.

SSR stands for Solid State Relay. It's really just an electronic switch - it has no moving parts. It is the equivalent of the contactor but because the contactor has moving parts it is not capable of switching power off and on to the element frequently without destroying itself.

Your PID itself is able to switch loads of up to 3 amps, but this is well short of 2000 Watts. Remember that Watts = Voltage x Amps. Re-arrange this formula to get W/V = A, and depending on what your voltage is this will tell you how many Amps capability you need.

So you employ a contactor, or SSR, to do the heavy-duty switching because these are capable of handling many more amps.

There is one thing to remember with a SSR, and that is if they fail they switch, as far as I understand, to full on and will not turn off. The SSR has its own connection to voltage mains. So, as with all setups like this, you should always supervise operation.

Paul



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