--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sn_cur" <sn_cur@...> wrote:
> Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly, an does
the job fine. But
> why is it "better" than electricity? What is the big advantage? For a
number of reasons I
> prefer electricity, but I think they are about equal overall.
>

My personal take on it is this:
Propane is infinitely adjustable, instantly responsive, and capable of
overpowering the still if required (as in the case of running a refluz
still like a pot still).  Any cook who has cooked on a gas stove versus
an electric stove will almost always prefer the gas.  Same in
distilling.

On the downside, you basically have to use propane outdoors.  You may
have a slightly higher fire hazard with propane.  However, you don't
have to worry about keeping your elements covered with distillate, so
the offset is less risk of explosion and more flexibility with small
batch size.

Oh yeah - one final advantage - propane works during power outages. :)

I guess I should have said 'better' than electricity but upon thinking about it,
propane applies heat on the outside of the kettle hence less chance of scorching
therefore fining the wash isn't so necessary.

Electricity - well the electricity that I have encountered - doesn't have the
infinite temperature control and stability that propane heating has.  Propane
doesn't have the on/off surges that electricity has.

However, having said that, if I were using electricity I would probably say that
all the above is bullshit.

The point I was trying to make is that using a naked flame to check for etho
leaks doesn't seem all that sensible to me.  Any new distiller could get
severely caught out by that advice and we, after all, do claim to put safety
before all else.


My advice to new distillers is DON'T DO IT, THE PERSON YOU BURN COULD BE YOU!!!

blanik




> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sn_cur <sn_cur@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: stills
> Date: Wed, 05 Dec:52:04 -0000
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
> >
> > Yairss bwyze,  I thought exactly the same thing.  As I've said at
> > least fifteen million
> times, propane is safe and better than electricity provided one has
> ventilation and
> COMMON SENSE.
> >
> > blanik
>
>
> Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly, and
> does the job fine. But
> why is it "better" than electricity? What is the big advantage? For
> a number of reasons I
> prefer electricity, but I think they are about equal overall.
>
> sn

>



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Buddha)

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Cooling management is where there is no valve below the reflux
condenser because the opening to the product condenser side is above
the reflux condenser rather than below. It is such that one must
carefully control the flow of the reflux cooling water between 100%
condensation (hence no vapour exiting above the reflux condenser and
into the product condenser.), and 0% reflux (100% of vapour traveling
past the reflux condenser and to the product side to condense there).

Liquid management uses a type of stream splitting apparatus that
catches 100% of the reflux. The reflux condenser in this case runs
wide open knocking down all the vapour all the time. The reflux ratio
is determined by how much liquid you take from the obstructed
condensate path. Search Bokabob and Nixon/Stone.

The advantage of these two designs over vapour management is that you
can accurately collect 100% of the vapour if you desire. If it is
cooling management, simply stop the reflux condenser, and all the
vapour will pass right by. If it is liquid management, just open the
stream splitting valve all the way. Why do this? Because, if you know
the maximum rate of collection, then you can easily set an accurate
reflux ratio.

Disadvantage of Cooling management is less control of the reflux
ratio, because you need an accurate metering valve with constant
pressure water at a constant temperature. This is not a big issue in
practicality.

I personally like liquid management, as you only really need one
decent condenser (and an optional small inline leibig on the stream
splitter take off powered by the waste cooling water if you wish
cooler condensate).

Search the designs, and this will all start to make more sense.

Btw… Very nice Sinker.

Bryan.

> Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly, and
does the job fine. But
> why is it "better" than electricity? What is the big advantage? For
a number of reasons I
> prefer electricity, but I think they are about equal overall.
>
> sn
>


In my opinion (worthless), for me gas has the advantage as Blanik has
said of instant response and infinite heat adjustment, plus keeps
working during a power outage (provided your coolant is not being
pumped by electricity) AND it doesn't throw a huge anomalous spike in
my usage pattern for the utility company to focus on. It doesn't take
a genius to work out that something is not quite kosher when every
now and then a large spike appears in your billing pattern. .I like
to maintain as low a profile as I can. Big brother already knows too
much.

my two cents worth .. (GST included)

Ahhhh People,

Yes, you can moderate the amount of propane very, very finely, (much
finer then electric) but remember - a limited amount of propane in a
tank needs constant attention since as it flows out, the pressure
gits less and less.  After making smoked Turkeys, Hams, Briskets,
fish, pastramis etc., on smokers and grills using propane over the
past 30 years or so - Ive found you need to monitor the gas levels
ever 1/2 hour and adjust the valves..

My electric stove on medium only varies 10 to 20 degrees F for an
indefinite amount of time - not enough to screw up a distalltion.

There is absolutly nothing wrong with using propane or natural gas in
distilling - as long as you have common sense and some ventilation to
the outside world.

But - "Every person to their own taste said the old Lady as she
Kissed the Cow...."  And just remember Murphy's Law...

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.





--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@...> wrote:
>
> > Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly, and
> does the job fine. But
> > why is it "better" than electricity? What is the big advantage?
For
> a number of reasons I
> > prefer electricity, but I think they are about equal overall.
> >
> > sn
> >
>
>
> In my opinion (worthless), for me gas has the advantage as Blanik
has
> said of instant response and infinite heat adjustment, plus keeps
> working during a power outage (provided your coolant is not being
> pumped by electricity) AND it doesn't throw a huge anomalous spike
in
> my usage pattern for the utility company to focus on. It doesn't
take
> a genius to work out that something is not quite kosher when every
> now and then a large spike appears in your billing pattern. .I like
> to maintain as low a profile as I can. Big brother already knows
too
> much.
>
> my two cents worth .. (GST included)
>

Gretings,
      I have scoured the archives for ideas and with supplies I had on
hand made a mash of:
16 pounds brown sugar
1 24 oz bottle of "unsulphured robust" mollases
1 pack of turbo 48.

  When finished I measured the mash with a hydrometer and these were the
findings:
  specific gravity 1112
  brix 28
  potential alcohol 15%

    I plan to run through a pot still and would like input as to when to
make the cuts. also is there a simple adjustment I need to make with
the wash?

Hi guys,
I have been a member for quite some time and need to ask a kind of
stupid question.. I recently fermented a wash and decided to try that
turbo sugar stuff (you know with the carbon bits in it.. Weird) and
turbo yeast. However after a freak 38 degree day my fermentation
stuck.. I tested the wash and my alcoholmeter showed only 3-5% abv.
This is when it gets a bit strange, I then ran it through my still
anyway(waste not want not) and got about 3.5-4 litres at 90-95% making
sure my unit stayed around the 79-80 degree mark.
Any help or explanation would be much appreciated...
Cheers boys (and girls????)
P.S. All degrees are in celsius.. Cheers.

You should have used a hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of
your wash, before pitching the yeast and when it stops.  The
alcoholmeter is just for alcohol alone.

You might find this handy.

<http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Fermentation-
chart/fermentation-chart.htm>

Cheers
Marc

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "calebmistnmit"
<calebmistnmit@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> I have been a member for quite some time and need to ask a kind of
> stupid question.. I recently fermented a wash and decided to try that
> turbo sugar stuff (you know with the carbon bits in it.. Weird) and
> turbo yeast. However after a freak 38 degree day my fermentation
> stuck.. I tested the wash and my alcoholmeter showed only 3-5% abv.
> This is when it gets a bit strange, I then ran it through my still
> anyway(waste not want not) and got about 3.5-4 litres at 90-95% making
> sure my unit stayed around the 79-80 degree mark.
> Any help or explanation would be much appreciated...
> Cheers boys (and girls????)
> P.S. All degrees are in celsius.. Cheers.
>

I am looking at building a new still.  A friend suggested useing pex
pipe. Just wondering if anyone has tried this or thinks there would be
issues with this.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "markgb99" <bc_redneck_boy@...>
wrote:
>
> I am looking at building a new still.  A friend suggested useing pex
> pipe. Just wondering if anyone has tried this or thinks there would
be
> issues with this.
>


I wouldn't use it.
I know PEX is used for potable (drinkable, domestic) water both hot
and cold.  However I think you'll find hot agressive solvents like
ethanol liquid & vapours will leach plasticisers from the crosslinked
polyethylene (PEX).  Here's a plumbing supplier who won't sell it and
why...
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pex.html

Slainte!
regards Harry

Hi Cal,

First off you cannot use an alcoholometer (called a proof hydrometer)
to test a wash, mash etc.

They are only ment to test an alcohol / water solution / distillation
(ie. after distilling).  It just dont read right.

Second you have to relize Turbo yeasts ferment almost 2x as fast as
regular yeasts.  So whether or not it was "stuck" you could have
determined by taste or used a regular wine/beer hydrometer.

Proper way to do it is to take the starting SG. then then Ending SG on
a wine hydrometer and subtract.  This would give a rough idea of the
abv of you wash/mash.

Vino es Veritas,
Jim

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "calebmistnmit"
<calebmistnmit@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> I have been a member for quite some time and need to ask a kind of
> stupid question.. I recently fermented a wash and decided to try that
> turbo sugar stuff (you know with the carbon bits in it.. Weird) and
> turbo yeast. However after a freak 38 degree day my fermentation
> stuck.. I tested the wash and my alcoholmeter showed only 3-5% abv.
> This is when it gets a bit strange, I then ran it through my still
> anyway(waste not want not) and got about 3.5-4 litres at 90-95% making
> sure my unit stayed around the 79-80 degree mark.
> Any help or explanation would be much appreciated...
> Cheers boys (and girls????)
> P.S. All degrees are in celsius.. Cheers.
>

I appreciate the advice on this.  I still have not made up my mind
what to build.

Mason

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
    In either case just remember to monitor your still at all times
  and have a fire extinguisher handy.
    I had a situation once where a soldered joint seeped distilate
resulting in a small fire. I shut the burner down and doused the area
with baking soda. Made a real mess (probably overkill on my part)
but it saved the day. Now have a fire extinguisher !
cheers
greg
>
> Ahhhh People,
>
> Yes, you can moderate the amount of propane very, very finely, (much
> finer then electric) but remember - a limited amount of propane in a
> tank needs constant attention since as it flows out, the pressure
> gits less and less.  After making smoked Turkeys, Hams, Briskets,
> fish, pastramis etc., on smokers and grills using propane over the
> past 30 years or so - Ive found you need to monitor the gas levels
> ever 1/2 hour and adjust the valves..
>
> My electric stove on medium only varies 10 to 20 degrees F for an
> indefinite amount of time - not enough to screw up a distalltion.
>
> There is absolutly nothing wrong with using propane or natural gas in
> distilling - as long as you have common sense and some ventilation to
> the outside world.
>
> But - "Every person to their own taste said the old Lady as she
> Kissed the Cow...."  And just remember Murphy's Law...
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim.
>

Ahhhh People,

Yes, you can moderate the amount of propane very, very finely, (much
finer then electric) but remember - a limited amount of propane in a
tank needs constant attention since as it flows out, the pressure
gits less and less. After making smoked Turkeys, Hams, Briskets,
fish, pastramis etc., on smokers and grills using propane over the
past 30 years or so - Ive found you need to monitor the gas levels
ever 1/2 hour and adjust the valves..

My electric stove on medium only varies 10 to 20 degrees F for an
indefinite amount of time - not enough to screw up a distalltion.

There is absolutly nothing wrong with using propane or natural gas in
distilling - as long as you have common sense and some ventilation to
the outside world.

But - "Every person to their own taste said the old Lady as she
Kissed the Cow...." And just remember Murphy's Law...

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@...> wrote:
>
> > Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly, and
> does the job fine. But
> > why is it "better" than electricity? What is the big advantage?
For
> a number of reasons I
> > prefer electricity, but I think they are about equal overall.
> >
> > sn
> >
>
>
> In my opinion (worthless), for me gas has the advantage as Blanik
has
> said of instant response and infinite heat adjustment, plus keeps
> working during a power outage (provided your coolant is not being
> pumped by electricity) AND it doesn't throw a huge anomalous spike
in
> my usage pattern for the utility company to focus on. It doesn't
take
> a genius to work out that something is not quite kosher when every
> now and then a large spike appears in your billing pattern. .I like
> to maintain as low a profile as I can. Big brother already knows
too
> much.
>
> my two cents worth .. (GST included)
>

Someone asked for feedback and sorry if I should have done it sooner.
You can search the group but for a quick story ... I got blue 65%
spirit smelling ammonia from my pot still. I added some water then I
distilled the blue stuff again after and got the same result. I
posted here to know that the wash was not acid enough and corroded
the copper which made the blue ammonia smelly stuff. BTW it was
true. ;)))

So I removed my tubing from my boiler and filled it with vinegar
blocking both end and let it stays for a while. Some nice blue stuff
came out then I rinsed it with water.

I put some lemon juice in the blue spirit and distilled it again to
get a spirit not smelling and clear. But...... I forgot about the
blue smelling tail I had put in my tail container. After two more
distillations from new wash and adding the tail to the container now
it is time to distill the tail..... BLUE SPIRIT!!!!

I was so... "huh not again !!!!!" but I knew whst I had to do. I
turned off the heat, got rid of the blue stuff (100 ml.) then put
some lemon juice in the boiler. The result was a clear not smelling
ammonia spirit that I distilled again later.

PS; Now I will use some acid blend instead of lemon juice after I was
suggested to do so because it is less costly until I get a PH
measuring tool.

Pin

Depends on what you want to make, hooch wise I mean. With a name
like "Rye Junkie", I'm going with wiskey. Pot stills make the best
flavored spirits WITH PRACTISE. Pot stilling is an art, and my hat is
off to the guys here that use them and get consistant fine products.
I've used them with success, but I have a lot more control over the
output of the still with my LM Offset and a parrots beak. The VM is
great and has the "set it and forget it" thing going for it, as it
stops working at around 65% (I believe). Do your research, alittle
reading now will save you alot of money latter!

Tip one, Morgan


--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@...>
wrote:
>
> I appreciate the advice on this.  I still have not made up my mind
> what to build.
>
> Mason
>

Hi Jeff,

In the Good ol' US of A the way you buy propane is take the old
cylinder to a store and exchange it for a new one full (no
regulator).

Those regulators come with some of the higher priced grills in the
300 - 800 dollar range - but not with the cylinder.  For the smokers,
turkey fryers and burners such as the Coleman camping ones - aint no
regulators.  But yea I had a grill with one of them and it didnt need
as much attention.  Thanks.  (saved ya some leg / finger work).

Vino es Veritas,

Jim.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, jeffrey lucas
<curiousswinger2003@...> wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
>   not sure how the LPG market works stateside, but in the UK LPG
cylinders tend to be used with pressuer regulators which avoid the
need to keep adjusting the output. IIRC they're set to 28mBar for
butane, and 37mBar for propane.
>
>   Propane tends to have the slight edge, as it doesn't liquify as
easily as butane (although most BBQs use butane as it's a summer
thing).
>
>   As I work for one of the UKs biggest LPG companies, I should be
able to find out what the deal in the US is, but it's lunchtime, and
I think our operations guys have sneaked down the pub .....
>
> jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>           Ahhhh People,
>
> Yes, you can moderate the amount of propane very, very finely,
(much
> finer then electric) but remember - a limited amount of propane in
a
> tank needs constant attention since as it flows out, the pressure
> gits less and less. After making smoked Turkeys, Hams, Briskets,
> fish, pastramis etc., on smokers and grills using propane over the
> past 30 years or so - Ive found you need to monitor the gas levels
> ever 1/2 hour and adjust the valves..
>
> My electric stove on medium only varies 10 to 20 degrees F for an
> indefinite amount of time - not enough to screw up a distalltion.
>
> There is absolutly nothing wrong with using propane or natural gas
in
> distilling - as long as you have common sense and some ventilation
to
> the outside world.
>
> But - "Every person to their own taste said the old Lady as she
> Kissed the Cow...." And just remember Murphy's Law...
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim.
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@> wrote:
> >
> > > Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly,
and
> > does the job fine. But
> > > why is it "better" than electricity? What is the big advantage?
> For
> > a number of reasons I
> > > prefer electricity, but I think they are about equal overall.
> > >
> > > sn
> > >
> >
> >
> > In my opinion (worthless), for me gas has the advantage as Blanik
> has
> > said of instant response and infinite heat adjustment, plus keeps
> > working during a power outage (provided your coolant is not being
> > pumped by electricity) AND it doesn't throw a huge anomalous
spike
> in
> > my usage pattern for the utility company to focus on. It doesn't
> take
> > a genius to work out that something is not quite kosher when
every
> > now and then a large spike appears in your billing pattern. .I
like
> > to maintain as low a profile as I can. Big brother already knows
> too
> > much.
> >
> > my two cents worth .. (GST included)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>  Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo!
for Good
>

Hello, all!  My question for you is just this...  People talk about
their sugar wash fermenting out in as little as three days.  I have
tried to replicate this using a few different recipes.  This is the
one I'm currently using:

10 pounds white table sugar
2 pounds dark brown sugar
2 tablespoons distiller's yeast
2.5 tablespoons yeast nutrients
water to make up to 5 gallons

Dissolve 10 pounds of white table sugar and 2 pounds of dark brown
sugar in 1 gallon of boiling water.  Pour into fermenter and top off
to 5 gallons using cold water.  Cool the wash to below 70 degrees
F.  Stir in 2.5 tablespoons yeast nutrients.  Adjust pH to approx
4.5.  Rehydrate yeast as per directions on package, and stir into
wash.  Check specific gravity and close fermenter, putting airlock
in place.

The wash I'm working on now has been in the fermenter since November
21.  The initial specific gravity was 1.116 @ 65 degrees F.  On
December 4, bubbling had almost completely ceased and the specific
gravity was 1.088 @ 69 degrees F.  I have made every effort to keep
the temperature of the wash as close to 70 degrees F as possible.  I
know if I let it go hotter it will ferment faster, but how hot is
too hot?

My fermenter is a food grade 22L bucket with a lid.  I have a hose
attached to the lid and run over into another bucket with water in
it.  I do have an airlock I use in a glass carboy when I make wine.
Would this be better to use?  For that matter, would the carboy be
better to ferment in?

Basically what I want to know is how can I make a 5 gallon sugar
wash ferment out to around 18% abv in 3 days?

Thanks!
dbanjo

I have a ss beer keg I'm going to use for my boiler,But after reading a
little now I don't which one to build pot'reflux,or valved reflux.Right
now i'm leaning toward the valved reflux.I'm a pipefitter by trade so
the construction is no problem

-----Original Message-----
From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jamesonbeam1
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:53 PM
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: stills

Hi Jeff,

In the Good ol' US of A the way you buy propane is take the old
cylinder to a store and exchange it for a new one full (no
regulator).

Those regulators come with some of the higher priced grills in the
300 - 800 dollar range - but not with the cylinder. For the smokers,
turkey fryers and burners such as the Coleman camping ones - aint no
regulators. But yea I had a grill with one of them and it didnt need
as much attention. Thanks. (saved ya some leg / finger work).

Vino es Veritas,

Jim.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, jeffrey lucas
<curiousswinger2003@...> wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> not sure how the LPG market works stateside, but in the UK LPG
cylinders tend to be used with pressuer regulators which avoid the
need to keep adjusting the output. IIRC they're set to 28mBar for
butane, and 37mBar for propane.
>
> Propane tends to have the slight edge, as it doesn't liquify as
easily as butane (although most BBQs use butane as it's a summer
thing).
>
> As I work for one of the UKs biggest LPG companies, I should be
able to find out what the deal in the US is, but it's lunchtime, and
I think our operations guys have sneaked down the pub .....
>
> jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
> Ahhhh People,
>
> Yes, you can moderate the amount of propane very, very finely,
(much
> finer then electric) but remember - a limited amount of propane in
a
> tank needs constant attention since as it flows out, the pressure
> gits less and less. After making smoked Turkeys, Hams, Briskets,
> fish, pastramis etc., on smokers and grills using propane over the
> past 30 years or so - Ive found you need to monitor the gas levels
> ever 1/2 hour and adjust the valves..
>
> My electric stove on medium only varies 10 to 20 degrees F for an
> indefinite amount of time - not enough to screw up a distalltion.
>
> There is absolutly nothing wrong with using propane or natural gas
in
> distilling - as long as you have common sense and some ventilation
to
> the outside world.
>
> But - "Every person to their own taste said the old Lady as she
> Kissed the Cow...." And just remember Murphy's Law...
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim.
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@> wrote:
> >
> > > Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly,
and
> > does the job fine. But
> > > why is it "better" than electricity? What is the big advantage?
> For
> > a number of reasons I
> > > prefer electricity, but I think they are about equal overall.
> > >
> > > sn
> > >
> >
> >
> > In my opinion (worthless), for me gas has the advantage as Blanik
> has
> > said of instant response and infinite heat adjustment, plus keeps
> > working during a power outage (provided your coolant is not being
> > pumped by electricity) AND it doesn't throw a huge anomalous
spike
> in
> > my usage pattern for the utility company to focus on. It doesn't
> take
> > a genius to work out that something is not quite kosher when
every
> > now and then a large spike appears in your billing pattern. .I
like
> > to maintain as low a profile as I can. Big brother already knows
> too
> > much.
> >
> > my two cents worth .. (GST included)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo!
for Good
>

Comments inline...

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "dbanjo0335" <dbanjo0335@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, all! My question for you is just this... People talk about
> their sugar wash fermenting out in as little as three days.

...............Doable, but usually with low potential fermentations.  Under 10% a/v.

I have
> tried to replicate this using a few different recipes. This is the
> one I'm currently using:
>
> 10 pounds white table sugar
> 2 pounds dark brown sugar
> 2 tablespoons distiller's yeast
> 2.5 tablespoons yeast nutrients
> water to make up to 5 gallons

.................

...........As you can see from the calculation, your potential a/v is ~17% which is way too high to ferment out in 3 days.  Either lower the sugar to 7 lb, or accept the fact that it's going to take a couple of weeks to attenuate and clear, even with turbo yeast.  Distillers yeast will have problems with attenuating to 17%.  It can do it, but the yeast is stressed and will produce some undesirable off-flavours.

>
> Dissolve 10 pounds of white table sugar and 2 pounds of dark brown
> sugar in 1 gallon of boiling water. Pour into fermenter and top off
> to 5 gallons using cold water. Cool the wash to below 70 degrees
> F. Stir in 2.5 tablespoons yeast nutrients. Adjust pH to approx
> 4.5.

.................pH 4.5 is way too low.  5.5 is what you want.   The pH scale is logarithymic.  That means that 4.5 pH is 10 TIMES more acidic than 5.5 pH.  Be aware that the acidity will increase as a byproduct in a fermentation as the yeast makes the alcohol.  If you start at 5.5 pH, you'll be fine.  If you start at 4.5 ph, you'll probably kill or severely slow your yeast.  I suspect this is what is happening in your fermentation.  That and too high a sugar content which also causes yeast stress through osmotic pressure.

 Rehydrate yeast as per directions on package, and stir into
> wash. Check specific gravity and close fermenter, putting airlock
> in place.
>
> The wash I'm working on now has been in the fermenter since November
> 21. The initial specific gravity was 1.116 @ 65 degrees F.

............Too high for distillers yeast.  In future, use the chart at the bottom of this post as a guide.

 On
> December 4, bubbling had almost completely ceased and the specific
> gravity was 1.088 @ 69 degrees F.

...........Yup, stuck ferment.  Yeast is pooped out for the reasons stated above.

I have made every effort to keep
> the temperature of the wash as close to 70 degrees F as possible. I
> know if I let it go hotter it will ferment faster, but how hot is
> too hot?
>
> My fermenter is a food grade 22L bucket with a lid. I have a hose
> attached to the lid and run over into another bucket with water in
> it. I do have an airlock I use in a glass carboy when I make wine.
> Would this be better to use? For that matter, would the carboy be
> better to ferment in?
>
> Basically what I want to know is how can I make a 5 gallon sugar
> wash ferment out to around 18% abv in 3 days?

................You can't.  Even turbo yeasts will take a couple weeks to do this, as stated before.  Distillers yeast won't even get close.  You have to reduce the sugar to speed up the attenuation.  And you have to start with the correct acidic pH level, or you'll kill the thing before it even gets started.

Slainte!
regards Harry

Distillers Wort Chart

At 03:26 PM 12/06/2007, you wrote:

>I have a ss beer keg I'm going to use for my boiler,But after reading a
>little now I don't which one to build pot'reflux,or valved reflux.Right
>now i'm leaning toward the valved reflux.

Reflux stills produce neutral spirits. If you want to make a lot of fuel
alcohol in a hurry, or a lot of Vodka, they are pretty much the best choice.

Only pot stills make whiskeys, rum, etc.

Reflux stills are more efficient and cheaper to run. You heat the wash
once, run it for however many hours it takes to do the run, and you are
done... dilute it and drink up, cut it with a little gasoline and drive on
it, whatever. The job is done..

Pot stills have to heat up the wash, do the run for however many hours,
then heat up again, run for however many hours again, and maybe even do it
another time.

You need to remain near the still (either type) to keep an eye on it,
change collection vessels, and adjust temperature if needed, for the many
hours that you're burning up propane or electricity.

So, pot stills take much more of your time, and use more heat (Read: $$$)
because you have to distill at least twice, but you get various kinds of
liquor at the end of the process, other than Vodka.

Depending on your goals, your best bet is probably going to be to build a
pot still column somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5" x 24". You just need
to look into the details of how to do the lyne arm and condenser.

You need copper in your vapor path, to improve the flavor.

Build a liquid management still with a removable column. This is
modular and will always act as a pot still or an easily tuned
fractionating still. Follow a design by nixon/stone or bokabob, and
just put 2in threaded fittings at the top and bottom of your column. If
you want some more advice/help with this idea, then just email me, and
we can work on a design that will suit your needs.

Bryan.


--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bodevilio" <bo_101@...> wrote:
>
> I have a ss beer keg I'm going to use for my boiler,But after reading
a
> little now I don't which one to build pot'reflux,or valved
reflux.Right
> now i'm leaning toward the valved reflux.I'm a pipefitter by trade so
> the construction is no problem
>

That bugger is not very keen on PEX, whatever PEX is.  :))

blanik



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Harry <gnikomson2000@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: anyone used pex pipe, is it safe
> Date: Thu, 06 Dec:42:04 -0000
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "markgb99" <bc_redneck_boy@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am looking at building a new still.  A friend suggested useing
> > pex pipe. Just wondering if anyone has tried this or thinks there
> > would
> be
> > issues with this.
> >
>
>
> I wouldn't use it.
> I know PEX is used for potable (drinkable, domestic) water both hot
> and cold.  However I think you'll find hot agressive solvents like
> ethanol liquid & vapours will leach plasticisers from the crosslinked
> polyethylene (PEX).  Here's a plumbing supplier who won't sell it and
> why...
> http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pex.html
>
> Slainte!
> regards Harry

>



"Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni
Buddha)

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At 04:52 PM 12/06/2007, you wrote:

>Hi Jeff,
>
>In the Good ol' US of A the way you buy propane is take the old
>cylinder to a store and exchange it for a new one full (no regulator).

In MY part of the Good Ol' US, you can go to the local U-haul store, which
sells propane, and get your tank filled.

That way, if it isn't quite empty, you don't throw away whatever's left in
a tank exchange.

They also sell a propane gauge that screws into the tank where the
burner-hose would go, and accepts the hose on the other side.

Another downside to Propane is that you pretty much need two tanks. Run one
until it's empty (maybe in the middle of a run), switch it out with the
spare, then get it filled to be the new spare.

Since I got the gauge, though, I don't start a run on a tank that seems to
have a chance of running out during the run.

If there seems to be a chance that a run will get interrupted by an empty
tank, I just start on the spare, and if there are a few pounds left in the
old tank, no sweat! I just take it to U-haul and they add to those pounds,
instead of switching out tanks and probably scavenging my remaining propane
after I drive away.

BTW, there are several U-haul stores where I live, and I know for sure that
several of them don't fill propane tanks.  You might be able find out at
http://www.uhaul.com if/where you can find one near you that fills tanks.

There's a $20 burner (with regulator) 160,000 BTU at
http://www.academy.com, search for "outdoor propane cooker"
Or visit:
http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=products/outdoors/grills/fr\
yers&start=0&selectedSKU=0267-40037-0002

I bought a new empty tank there, and took it to U-haul to get it
filled.  Couldn't see buying a brand new empty tank, then exchanging it for
a used tank that was full...

Jeff
Same here in Oz - the land of milk and honey, now that Bonsai has gone.  I
didn't understand that valve adjustment stuff at all.  I just bring the still up
to 72c, set it and forget it.  The temp rises as the etho is collected and when
it reaches 88 or thereabouts I up the flame and collect tails.

What could be more simple????

blanik






> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jeffrey lucas" <curiousswinger2003@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stills
> Date: Thu, 6 Dec:36:29 +0000 (GMT)
>
>
> Hi James,
>
>    not sure how the LPG market works stateside, but in the UK LPG
> cylinders tend to be used with pressuer regulators which avoid the
> need to keep adjusting the output. IIRC they're set to 28mBar for
> butane, and 37mBar for propane.
>
>    Propane tends to have the slight edge, as it doesn't liquify as
> easily as butane (although most BBQs use butane as it's a summer
> thing).
>
>    As I work for one of the UKs biggest LPG companies, I should be
> able to find out what the deal in the US is, but it's lunchtime,
> and I think our operations guys have sneaked down the pub .....
>
> jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>            Ahhhh People,
>
> Yes, you can moderate the amount of propane very, very finely, (much
> finer then electric) but remember - a limited amount of propane in a
> tank needs constant attention since as it flows out, the pressure
> gits less and less. After making smoked Turkeys, Hams, Briskets,
> fish, pastramis etc., on smokers and grills using propane over the
> past 30 years or so - Ive found you need to monitor the gas levels
> ever 1/2 hour and adjust the valves..
>
> My electric stove on medium only varies 10 to 20 degrees F for an
> indefinite amount of time - not enough to screw up a distalltion.
>
> There is absolutly nothing wrong with using propane or natural gas in
> distilling - as long as you have common sense and some ventilation to
> the outside world.
>
> But - "Every person to their own taste said the old Lady as she
> Kissed the Cow...." And just remember Murphy's Law...
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim.
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Don't disagree that propane is quite safe when used properly,
> > and does the job fine. But > why is it "better" than electricity?
> > What is the big advantage?
> For
> > a number of reasons I > prefer electricity, but I think they are
> > about equal overall. > > sn
> > >
> >
> >
> > In my opinion (worthless), for me gas has the advantage as Blanik
> has
> > said of instant response and infinite heat adjustment, plus keeps
> > working during a power outage (provided your coolant is not being
> > pumped by electricity) AND it doesn't throw a huge anomalous spike
> in
> > my usage pattern for the utility company to focus on. It doesn't
> take
> > a genius to work out that something is not quite kosher when
> > every now and then a large spike appears in your billing pattern.
> > .I like to maintain as low a profile as I can. Big brother
> > already knows
> too
> > much.
> >
> > my two cents worth .. (GST included)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! for Good

>



"Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni
Buddha)

SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
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On the other hand, my old 'coil in a bucket' pot still produces some beautiful
Rum, Brandy and whisky.

Yairss, it does take a lot of time, and uses a bit of propane but so what. I've
just finished a triple distillation of some HGGGP rum and it came out at 90abv
and tastes divine (diluted to 45abv first of course.  I don't worry so much
about cost as when compared to commercial slop we are well in front and can well
afford to make something just that little bit better.  One can do this with a
pot still but I don't know about reflux stills.


blanik






---- Original Message -----
> From: Larry <larry@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: pot or reflux
> Date: Thu, 06 Dec:28:56 -0600
>
>
> At 03:26 PM 12/06/2007, you wrote:
>
> > I have a ss beer keg I'm going to use for my boiler,But after reading a
> > little now I don't which one to build pot'reflux,or valved reflux.Right
> > now i'm leaning toward the valved reflux.
>
> Reflux stills produce neutral spirits. If you want to make a lot of fuel
> alcohol in a hurry, or a lot of Vodka, they are pretty much the best choice.
>
> Only pot stills make whiskeys, rum, etc.
>
> Reflux stills are more efficient and cheaper to run. You heat the wash
> once, run it for however many hours it takes to do the run, and you are
> done... dilute it and drink up, cut it with a little gasoline and drive on
> it, whatever. The job is done..
>
> Pot stills have to heat up the wash, do the run for however many hours,
> then heat up again, run for however many hours again, and maybe even do it
> another time.
>
> You need to remain near the still (either type) to keep an eye on it,
> change collection vessels, and adjust temperature if needed, for the many
> hours that you're burning up propane or electricity.
>
> So, pot stills take much more of your time, and use more heat (Read: $$$)
> because you have to distill at least twice, but you get various kinds of
> liquor at the end of the process, other than Vodka.
>
> Depending on your goals, your best bet is probably going to be to build a
> pot still column somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5" x 24". You just need
> to look into the details of how to do the lyne arm and condenser.
>
> You need copper in your vapor path, to improve the flavor.

>



"Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni
Buddha)

SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@...> wrote:
>
> Build a liquid management still with a removable column. This is
> modular and will always act as a pot still or an easily tuned
> fractionating still. Follow a design by nixon/stone or bokabob, and
> just put 2in threaded fittings at the top and bottom of your column. If
> you want some more advice/help with this idea, then just email me, and
> we can work on a design that will suit your needs.
>
> Bryan.
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bodevilio" <bo_101@> wrote:
> >
> > I have a ss beer keg I'm going to use for my boiler,But after reading
> a
> > little now I don't which one to build pot'reflux,or valved
> reflux.Right
> > now i'm leaning toward the valved reflux.I'm a pipefitter by trade so
> > the construction is no problem
> >
>


Or you can build both. A tall reflux column, and a short pot column. That is
what I have,
and just swap them over as required.

An alternative option to a liquid management reflux column is a vapour
management
column, I have one and it works a treat.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
>
> Jeff
> Same here in Oz - the land of milk and honey, now that Bonsai has gone.
>
> blanik
>

Good riddance to him. Well and truly overstayed his welcome.

But back to the subject at hand, propane v. electricity:

Folks, don't know where you get the idea electricity isn't capable of very fine
adjustment, it
is at least as fine and accurate as propane, if you have a good controller. A
zero switching
circuit (aka a burst fire module) can move in steps of 1% (in a 50Hz supply),
and I doubt
any standard control valves for propane could do better than that. A phase
switching
circuit like Pinto's can adjust output to an almost arbitrarily fine resolution,
way finer than
propane.

Electric heat is also VERY stable, it doesn't surge (again, given a good
controller, not the
standard controllers found in stoves or room heaters). Propane is subject to
wind and
breezes, and seeing as you need to use it outside, or at least in a well vented
space, that is
always a potential problem, though a wind shield can usually fix this. Also, as
mentioned,
if you don't have a regulator than the pressure changes in a propane tank mean
the
occasional adjustment is necessary, not that this is a big problem. Once I set
the burst-fire
controller on my still for a run it is rock solid and I never have to adjust it.

The flame from propane also makes it harder to insulate the boiler, so electric
heating is
probably a fair bit more efficient (in a well insulated boiler).

The response time of modern electric elements is only a bit slower than propane,
and it
isn't particularly relevant for our purposes as we don't change the heat setting
often
during a run, if at all, and anyway we don't need an ultra fast response.

True, you do have to make sure the element is always covered with liquid, but
that is not
hard to do, and you don't have the worries of a naked flame, or damaging the
bottom of
the boiler if it runs dry (even stainless steel doesn't last forever).

Propane does have the advantage of being able to do small batches, my 50 litre
keg boiler
needs a minimum of about 11-12 litres liquid to safely cover the element. But
that doesn't
mean much more than I might have to dilute a small charge a bit with water. No
big deal.

Don't agree there is less overall risk of explosion/fire with propane, as it has
the naked
flame issue (and a bottle of propane nearby as extra bomb fuel if there is an
explosion/
fire). Electric elements also don't put out CO2 and CO into your stilling area.
But elements
do have the risk of electrocution (mixing electricity and liquid always needs to
be handled
carefully).

Propane can reduce the risk of scorching if used properly, but you still need to
clear the
wash well, as heating yeast (whether with electricity or propane) splits it open
and releases
unwanted flavours. Using a low density element seriously reduces the risk of
scorching.
And you can always filter out the solids from the wash first.

Depending on the set-up, propane usually gives a shorter boil up time, but I
don't think
that is a huge advantage for hobby distillers. I can boil up 40 litres of water
in about 75
minutes with my 2400 w element, not exactly a long time, and just about the
right amount
of time to set everything else up (column, coolant supply, etc).

Propane does work during power outages, but it can also run out if you forget to
keep
your tanks filled, besides which modern electric power grids don't go down that
often, and
rarely for very long.

Electricity is more easily available, I can plug in at any house, anytime.
Propane can only be
obtained from a limited number of locations, and not anytime.

I don't know what any cost difference might be, that probably varies a fair bit
from place
to place. But I only still once or twice a month, so it doesn't really matter to
me, and
electricity is pretty cheap in my area anyway.

I am not arguing for or against either of them. Both have their pros and cons,
and work
well and safely when used properly. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Given
my
particular circumstances, I just find electricity more convenient. But it is not
necessarily
the best option for everyone. The choice boils down to what is best for your
particular
circumstances, and personal preference.

"The point I was trying to make is that using a naked flame to check for etho
leaks doesn't
seem all that sensible to me."

Fair point, no argument there.

[End Rant]

Cheers
sn

In the past 14 years, I've used both electric and propane.  Having
done both, I'll stick with propane and never go back to electric.

Arguments can be made either way, but usually are made by those who
have only ever used one or the other.  My suggestion is try them
both, then decide.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sn_cur" <sn_cur@...> wrote:
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@>
wrote:
> >
> > Jeff
> > Same here in Oz - the land of milk and honey, now that Bonsai has
gone.
> >
> > blanik
> >
>
> Good riddance to him. Well and truly overstayed his welcome.
>
> But back to the subject at hand, propane v. electricity:
>
> Folks, don't know where you get the idea electricity isn't capable
of very fine adjustment, it
> is at least as fine and accurate as propane, if you have a good
controller. A zero switching
> circuit (aka a burst fire module) can move in steps of 1% (in a
50Hz supply), and I doubt
> any standard control valves for propane could do better than that.
A phase switching
> circuit like Pinto's can adjust output to an almost arbitrarily
fine resolution, way finer than
> propane.
>
> Electric heat is also VERY stable, it doesn't surge (again, given a
good controller, not the
> standard controllers found in stoves or room heaters). Propane is
subject to wind and
> breezes, and seeing as you need to use it outside, or at least in a
well vented space, that is
> always a potential problem, though a wind shield can usually fix
this. Also, as mentioned,
> if you don't have a regulator than the pressure changes in a
propane tank mean the
> occasional adjustment is necessary, not that this is a big problem.
Once I set the burst-fire
> controller on my still for a run it is rock solid and I never have
to adjust it.
>
> The flame from propane also makes it harder to insulate the boiler,
so electric heating is
> probably a fair bit more efficient (in a well insulated boiler).
>
> The response time of modern electric elements is only a bit slower
than propane, and it
> isn't particularly relevant for our purposes as we don't change the
heat setting often
> during a run, if at all, and anyway we don't need an ultra fast
response.
>
> True, you do have to make sure the element is always covered with
liquid, but that is not
> hard to do, and you don't have the worries of a naked flame, or
damaging the bottom of
> the boiler if it runs dry (even stainless steel doesn't last
forever).
>
> Propane does have the advantage of being able to do small batches,
my 50 litre keg boiler
> needs a minimum of about 11-12 litres liquid to safely cover the
element. But that doesn't
> mean much more than I might have to dilute a small charge a bit
with water. No big deal.
>
> Don't agree there is less overall risk of explosion/fire with
propane, as it has the naked
> flame issue (and a bottle of propane nearby as extra bomb fuel if
there is an explosion/
> fire). Electric elements also don't put out CO2 and CO into your
stilling area. But elements
> do have the risk of electrocution (mixing electricity and liquid
always needs to be handled
> carefully).
>
> Propane can reduce the risk of scorching if used properly, but you
still need to clear the
> wash well, as heating yeast (whether with electricity or propane)
splits it open and releases
> unwanted flavours. Using a low density element seriously reduces
the risk of scorching.
> And you can always filter out the solids from the wash first.
>
> Depending on the set-up, propane usually gives a shorter boil up
time, but I don't think
> that is a huge advantage for hobby distillers. I can boil up 40
litres of water in about 75
> minutes with my 2400 w element, not exactly a long time, and just
about the right amount
> of time to set everything else up (column, coolant supply, etc).
>
> Propane does work during power outages, but it can also run out if
you forget to keep
> your tanks filled, besides which modern electric power grids don't
go down that often, and
> rarely for very long.
>
> Electricity is more easily available, I can plug in at any house,
anytime. Propane can only be
> obtained from a limited number of locations, and not anytime.
>
> I don't know what any cost difference might be, that probably
varies a fair bit from place
> to place. But I only still once or twice a month, so it doesn't
really matter to me, and
> electricity is pretty cheap in my area anyway.
>
> I am not arguing for or against either of them. Both have their
pros and cons, and work
> well and safely when used properly. Six of one, half a dozen of the
other. Given my
> particular circumstances, I just find electricity more convenient.
But it is not necessarily
> the best option for everyone. The choice boils down to what is best
for your particular
> circumstances, and personal preference.
>
> "The point I was trying to make is that using a naked flame to
check for etho leaks doesn't
> seem all that sensible to me."
>
> Fair point, no argument there.
>
> [End Rant]
>
> Cheers
> sn
>