--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@...> wrote:
>
> im no pro but i had this blue spirit and used to use lemon
concentrate
> also. ive switched to citric acid that is available at the brew
store
> by me and is much more cost efficient.


This is what I will eventually do.



> i had the same troubles on my reflux still. i made the wash the same
> way i always do and then proceeded to run it through and out came
the
> blue. i changed nothing in my procedures of wash ma king and stillin
> or the time that the wash fermented. im gonna guess that your using
> well water in your ferments, correct? the only conclusion i came to
is
> that the well waters ph varies and this caused my problem.

No I use tap water from Montreal and beside the chlore the water is
good.

> as a preventive i always add the citric acid into the boiler and
then
> pour in the wash. this mixes it up and makes sure that i will never
> see that blue crap again.

Great idea to do it and since it happened to me, I will always add
some acidity.

> as for a remedy to this problem of the distillate, id run the
> disstilate through carbon and then dillute by half with water. add
> some citric acid or lemon juice concentrate to it and rerun through
> the still in a stripping run. then do a spirit run if the stripping
> run products are fine and if not then either repeat this process or
> just call your losses and pitch it.

I had put a piece of towel in the bottom of a big funnel filled with
carbon. I do not say it was a good filter but the stuff was still
smelling as bad. I got rid of the carbon since I feel it was
contamitated with copper. I will also add a good amount of water but
what was worrying me was the smell. I got rid of most of it by
letting the lid of my container open for two days. I know I lost some
alcohol but I was worry the smell would go through the distilling
process as it did before.


> as for your 3rd wash. add the lemon juice concentrate to it that you
> think is enough and then add some more. or test the ph to get it
more
> acidic.

Yes you can be sure that it will add of it enough to be acidic.

> again i use the citric acid from the brew shop. its less money and
> wont add lemon flavor to your potstill product.
>
> keep us posted on your results please
>

I am already doing so and next weekend I should post my final result.

Pin

All the paranoia about 'being caught' making spirits as a hobby simply causes
anxiety that is unnecessary.  You are better rewarded by following the 'rules'
and to not brag about what you are doing.

We make small amounts of spirit and we DON'T SELL IT.  The cost involved for any
government to take a hobby distiller to court has to be prohibitive so why would
they bother. If you keep your nose clean and your mouth shut I don't think the
anxiety is ever going to be a problem. It really is common sense IMHO.

Relax and use the wasted energy to enjoy your hobby. After all, as Mason said
'We not making crystal meth or crack here and peddling the stuff in schools. 
And there aren't a whole lot of people who are going to bother trying to do what
we do anyway.  It is work.'

I suspect that some folk 'get off' on worrying about being 'caught'. Don't be
one of them. Stay within the bounds of common sense and all should be OK.


blanik







"Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni
Buddha)

SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



--
_______________________________________________
Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com

Powered by Outblaze

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> Welp Link,
>
> Like I said - down here in Virgini - "Land of Love and Pork", most
> of the cuts we buy are pre-smoked and/or country hams cured in salt
> brine (hate em, ya have to soak them 24 hours just to git all the
> salt out).
>
> Also have never seen so many different cuts like hog jowels, hog
> ears, pigs feet, chittlins etc etc etc.  Aint nothing from a pig
> that goes to waste here lol.
>
> Master Jim,

Are you really from ole Va.? Any butcher, raiser of hogs, vet. and
especially the home farmer raising his own hogs will tell you the
best of all are the mtn oysters properly fried. Next is the fresh
liver the day of killing, dinner that night. Then if properly cold
enough the cutting and sugar, salting and peppering process the next
day, with the grinding of all the trimmings and odds and ends into
sausage, while the intestines are cleaned for the caseings. Fire is
lit for the 4 to 5 hour water bath canning for the backbones and ribs.

The sausage is baked in a wood stove oven, hot packed into jars and
sealed upside down and then stored that way. The leaf lard and other
good fat is rendered on the wood stove top for cracklings and lard.

The skull and quarter to half the liver and some of the fat goes to a
neighbor who specializes in hogs head cheese, one of my favorites,
and scrapple.

We ain't stingy, we share, dogs get the eyeballs, tail, ears and
wanger. You have to give up something for your friends. Oh yeah the
big ole toenails also. All else is ours.

Ah heck, you just talked me into getting some baby pigs next spring.
Bring one sharp knife, and one dull one for the scrappeing. Water
barrels will be boiling for the scrappeing.

Of course, I forgot to mention the most important part. Just below
all these smokey fires, and with a fire of its own runs the before,
dureing and after libations. We in these high up hills of NC are so
fortunate as the womenfolk just shrug their shoulders and take over
the work and processing, to the tune of our snores.

Now thats some damn good pork, no matter what that state the but came
from.

the question i have is how long should one keep oak chips in our brew??
thanks
slough


-----Original Message-----
From: bigjim <bigjim@...>
To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Aging with oak chips























              Link, I just came in from The Jack  Daniels Invitational
BBQ Cook Off in

Lynchburg, Tn. We got 5th in chicken .

    Any how I came across a fellow with a pick-up loaded with some tops
from

their whiskey kegs. I scored 4 of them (all I could get on the footrest
of

my powerchair) They are charred on one side and still smell like
Gentleman

Jack and they were still damp. I thought I would saw up a stave or 2
and

char the other 3 sides  and slip one in a Mason jar with my next batch.

    They made an announcement at the awards that if anybody that if
anybody

wanted one, they had 100 kegs they would sell us for $30.00 US apiece.
I did

not have enough room to get one. They normally go for $75.00 US.

    You have my email, if you want a couple of stave off one of these
tops,

Let me know and I will send ya some.

    I'll put up some pictures from The Jack and post the URL. Anybody
else?

   I saw one vendor selling BBQ that was cooking with the tops.

James A. "Big Jim" Whitten

bigjim@...

www.lazyq.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Link D'Antoni" <link2d@...>

To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Aging with oak chips



> Jim,

> I did an experiment using various woods that I use to

> BBQ.  Figured if it's good enough to smoke (BBQ) then

> it's good enough to drink.

> Cherry wood had a harsh taste.  I used raw, toasted,

> and charred.  Raw was best but left and aftertaste.

>

> The others woods that I experimented with were:

> -Live Oak, really really good

> -Pecan, almost as good as the Live Oak.

> -Hickory, the tannin came though but I didn't like

> the taste)

> -Lemon & Orange wood, a slight hint of fruity taste.

> Not enough to waste my time.

>  There again I used raw, toasted and charred of each.

> Afterward, I blended all samples except the Live Oak

> and Pecan thinking that I would filter and blend into

> some later.  The mix is just great.

> I think that pictures of the experiment are in

> Distillers/Photos.

>

> Link

>

>

> --- jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

>

>> Speaking of Oak Chips, Ive heard of people aging in

>> cherry wood,

>> apple and other hard woods - depending on the liquor

>> being produced.

>>

>> Was just wondering, I have a big bag of Hickory

>> Chips from

>> barbaqueing - has anyone every used them charred to

>> age whiskey??

>>

>> "A Fine Wine is just like a Beautiful woman -

>> Fragrant , mellow, and

>> smooth on the pallat..."

>>

>> JIm.

>>

>> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rhodeseng"

>> <rhodeseng@...>

>> wrote:

>> >

>> > homemade oak chunks work fine also in mason jars.

>> >

>> > about 2 pieces the size and length of your finger

>> charred with a

>> > propane torch will do the trick.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum

>> norbu" <blanik@>

>> > wrote:

>> > >

>> > > Way to go, easy.

>> > >

>> > > Blanik

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > > ----- Original Message -----

>> > > > From: easythreesix <easythreesix@>

>> > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com

>> > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging with oak chips

>> > > > Date: Wed, 24 Oct:27:16 -0000

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > > Gents,

>> > > >

>> > > > I'm using some mason jars to age some

>> different homemade

>> > whiskies with

>> > > > some toasted/charred oak chips (approximately

>> 2 teaspoons of

>> > chips per

>> > > > quart).  Am I doing this the right way, or is

>> there a better

>> > type of

>> > > > container to use when doing this?

>> > > >

>> > > > Thanks,

>> > > >

>> > > > Easy

>> > >

>> > > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by

>> human beings".

>> > (Shakyamuni Buddha)

>> > >

>> > > SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page

>> > > http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > --

>> > > _______________________________________________

>> > > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:

>> > > Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com

>> > >

>> > > Powered by Outblaze

>> > >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

> http://mail.yahoo.com

>

>

> New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/

> FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>




























________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com

Dang Boy,

Really didnt want to get into them Rocky Mountain Smoked Oyster
parts, but no, Im not a true blood Virginian - just a transplant
from Texas - where them Smoked oysters are delicious but come from
bull balls down there.  Still think calf's liver is better and am
familar with making sausage ;-). Only part of a calf/cow I wont eat
are calf's brains (when i was young my mother was makin em in a
skillet and looked in - had nightmares ever since).

Like I said before, aint nothing goes to waste from a pig in these
parts (or cattle out west)....

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mtnwalker2" <mtnwalker2@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
> <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
> >
> > Welp Link,
> >
> > Like I said - down here in Virgini - "Land of Love and Pork",
most
> > of the cuts we buy are pre-smoked and/or country hams cured in
salt
> > brine (hate em, ya have to soak them 24 hours just to git all
the
> > salt out).
> >
> > Also have never seen so many different cuts like hog jowels, hog
> > ears, pigs feet, chittlins etc etc etc.  Aint nothing from a pig
> > that goes to waste here lol.
> >
> > Master Jim,
>
> Are you really from ole Va.? Any butcher, raiser of hogs, vet. and
> especially the home farmer raising his own hogs will tell you the
> best of all are the mtn oysters properly fried. Next is the fresh
> liver the day of killing, dinner that night. Then if properly cold
> enough the cutting and sugar, salting and peppering process the
next
> day, with the grinding of all the trimmings and odds and ends into
> sausage, while the intestines are cleaned for the caseings. Fire
is
> lit for the 4 to 5 hour water bath canning for the backbones and
ribs.
>
> The sausage is baked in a wood stove oven, hot packed into jars
and
> sealed upside down and then stored that way. The leaf lard and
other
> good fat is rendered on the wood stove top for cracklings and lard.
>
> The skull and quarter to half the liver and some of the fat goes
to a
> neighbor who specializes in hogs head cheese, one of my favorites,
> and scrapple.
>
> We ain't stingy, we share, dogs get the eyeballs, tail, ears and
> wanger. You have to give up something for your friends. Oh yeah
the
> big ole toenails also. All else is ours.
>
> Ah heck, you just talked me into getting some baby pigs next
spring.
> Bring one sharp knife, and one dull one for the scrappeing. Water
> barrels will be boiling for the scrappeing.
>
> Of course, I forgot to mention the most important part. Just below
> all these smokey fires, and with a fire of its own runs the
before,
> dureing and after libations. We in these high up hills of NC are
so
> fortunate as the womenfolk just shrug their shoulders and take
over
> the work and processing, to the tune of our snores.
>
> Now thats some damn good pork, no matter what that state the but
came
> from.
>

Answer: As long as ya can keep from drinkin it.....

Law requires true Bourbon to be aged in oak barrels for a minimum of
2 years while most age for 4 years, including all Tenessee sour mash
whiskeys...

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, SLOUGHVIEW@... wrote:
>
> the question i have is how long should one keep oak chips in our
brew??
> thanks
> slough
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bigjim <bigjim@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Aging with oak chips
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>              Link, I just came in from The Jack  Daniels
Invitational
> BBQ Cook Off in
>
> Lynchburg, Tn. We got 5th in chicken .
>
>    Any how I came across a fellow with a pick-up loaded with some
tops
> from
>
> their whiskey kegs. I scored 4 of them (all I could get on the
footrest
> of
>
> my powerchair) They are charred on one side and still smell like
> Gentleman
>
> Jack and they were still damp. I thought I would saw up a stave or
2
> and
>
> char the other 3 sides  and slip one in a Mason jar with my next
batch.
>
>    They made an announcement at the awards that if anybody that if
> anybody
>
> wanted one, they had 100 kegs they would sell us for $30.00 US
apiece.
> I did
>
> not have enough room to get one. They normally go for $75.00 US.
>
>    You have my email, if you want a couple of stave off one of
these
> tops,
>
> Let me know and I will send ya some.
>
>    I'll put up some pictures from The Jack and post the URL.
Anybody
> else?
>
>   I saw one vendor selling BBQ that was cooking with the tops.
>
> James A. "Big Jim" Whitten
>
> bigjim@...
>
> www.lazyq.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Link D'Antoni" <link2d@...>
>
> To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 2:08 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Aging with oak chips
>
>
>
> > Jim,
>
> > I did an experiment using various woods that I use to
>
> > BBQ.  Figured if it's good enough to smoke (BBQ) then
>
> > it's good enough to drink.
>
> > Cherry wood had a harsh taste.  I used raw, toasted,
>
> > and charred.  Raw was best but left and aftertaste.
>
> >
>
> > The others woods that I experimented with were:
>
> > -Live Oak, really really good
>
> > -Pecan, almost as good as the Live Oak.
>
> > -Hickory, the tannin came though but I didn't like
>
> > the taste)
>
> > -Lemon & Orange wood, a slight hint of fruity taste.
>
> > Not enough to waste my time.
>
> >  There again I used raw, toasted and charred of each.
>
> > Afterward, I blended all samples except the Live Oak
>
> > and Pecan thinking that I would filter and blend into
>
> > some later.  The mix is just great.
>
> > I think that pictures of the experiment are in
>
> > Distillers/Photos.
>
> >
>
> > Link
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Speaking of Oak Chips, Ive heard of people aging in
>
> >> cherry wood,
>
> >> apple and other hard woods - depending on the liquor
>
> >> being produced.
>
> >>
>
> >> Was just wondering, I have a big bag of Hickory
>
> >> Chips from
>
> >> barbaqueing - has anyone every used them charred to
>
> >> age whiskey??
>
> >>
>
> >> "A Fine Wine is just like a Beautiful woman -
>
> >> Fragrant , mellow, and
>
> >> smooth on the pallat..."
>
> >>
>
> >> JIm.
>
> >>
>
> >> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rhodeseng"
>
> >> <rhodeseng@>
>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >
>
> >> > homemade oak chunks work fine also in mason jars.
>
> >> >
>
> >> > about 2 pieces the size and length of your finger
>
> >> charred with a
>
> >> > propane torch will do the trick.
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum
>
> >> norbu" <blanik@>
>
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > Way to go, easy.
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > Blanik
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> >> > > > From: easythreesix <easythreesix@>
>
> >> > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
>
> >> > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging with oak chips
>
> >> > > > Date: Wed, 24 Oct:27:16 -0000
>
> >> > > >
>
> >> > > >
>
> >> > > > Gents,
>
> >> > > >
>
> >> > > > I'm using some mason jars to age some
>
> >> different homemade
>
> >> > whiskies with
>
> >> > > > some toasted/charred oak chips (approximately
>
> >> 2 teaspoons of
>
> >> > chips per
>
> >> > > > quart).  Am I doing this the right way, or is
>
> >> there a better
>
> >> > type of
>
> >> > > > container to use when doing this?
>
> >> > > >
>
> >> > > > Thanks,
>
> >> > > >
>
> >> > > > Easy
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > >
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by
>
> >> human beings".
>
> >> > (Shakyamuni Buddha)
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
>
> >> > > http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > --
>
> >> > > _______________________________________________
>
> >> > > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
>
> >> > > Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
>
> >> > >
>
> >> > > Powered by Outblaze
>
> >> > >
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > __________________________________________________
>
> > Do You Yahoo!?
>
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> > FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>

Any possibility of increased methanol? They do call it "wood alchohol"

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> Nope, just dont add any apricot pits or peach pits to it and you will
> be ok (they have cyanide in em) - watch out for the fruit flys too.
>
> Jim.
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking of re-distilling some crappy brandy that has been aged
> > on  oak chips. Is there a problem if a bit of oak gets into the pot
> > and distilled along with it? There are woody stems that are part of
> > the mash with grappa.
> > Cheers
> > M
> >
>

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...>
wrote:
>
> All the paranoia about 'being caught' making spirits as a hobby
simply causes anxiety that is unnecessary.  You are better rewarded
by following the 'rules' and to not brag about what you are doing.
>
> We make small amounts of spirit and we DON'T SELL IT.  The cost
involved for any government to take a hobby distiller to court has
to be prohibitive so why would they bother. If you keep your nose
clean and your mouth shut I don't think the anxiety is ever going to
be a problem. It really is common sense IMHO.
>
> Relax and use the wasted energy to enjoy your hobby. After all, as
Mason said 'We not making crystal meth or crack here and peddling
the stuff in schools.  And there aren't a whole lot of people who
are going to bother trying to do what we do anyway.  It is work.'
>
> I suspect that some folk 'get off' on worrying about
being 'caught'. Don't be one of them. Stay within the bounds of
common sense and all should be OK.
>
>
> blanik



Sage advice, Dog. :)
If we were collecting butterflies, nobody would give a sh!t (EPA &
rare species not withstanding).  But if you're making more than you
& uncle Fred & yer cousins Jethro & Billy can drink, then it begs
the question, WHY?

As a hobby, ethanol distilling has few equals in terms of self-
satisfaction.  But as a commercial enterprise, legal or illegal,
well there's plenty of other ways where you can get-rich-quick and
stay out of trouble.

Slainte!
regards Harry

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mtnwalker2" <mtnwalker2@...>
wrote:
>
> Are you really from ole Va.? Any butcher, raiser of hogs, vet. and
> especially the home farmer raising his own hogs will tell you the
> best of all are the mtn oysters properly fried. Next is the fresh
> liver the day of killing, dinner that night. Then if properly cold
> enough the cutting and sugar, salting and peppering process the next
> day, with the grinding of all the trimmings and odds and ends into
> sausage, while the intestines are cleaned for the caseings. Fire is
> lit for the 4 to 5 hour water bath canning for the backbones and
ribs.
>
> The sausage is baked in a wood stove oven, hot packed into jars and
> sealed upside down and then stored that way. The leaf lard and other
(SNIP)

If I ever get lucky & win the lottery (a real one, online scams
excluded) I gonna look you up & try that hog.  I'll bring the homebrew
Scotch!  :)

Slainte!
regards Harry

The answer to how long for soaking wood chips is... You soak them
until you deem it finished. This might require regular sampling.

On, hogs... Kentucky and North Carolina have a lot in common. Except
that with a few German variations on the sausage whaere I come from
along with the blood wurst, souse, liverwurst and braunshwager.

On power controllers... I need to put together a how-to. I have all
the parts to do a 240vac one that can handle 40 amps. I'll work on it
soon.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mtnwalker2" <mtnwalker2@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Are you really from ole Va.? Any butcher, raiser of hogs, vet. and
> > especially the home farmer raising his own hogs will tell you the
> > best of all are the mtn oysters properly fried. Next is the fresh
> > liver the day of killing, dinner that night. Then if properly cold
> > enough the cutting and sugar, salting and peppering process the next
> > day, with the grinding of all the trimmings and odds and ends into
> > sausage, while the intestines are cleaned for the caseings. Fire is
> > lit for the 4 to 5 hour water bath canning for the backbones and
> ribs.
> >
> > The sausage is baked in a wood stove oven, hot packed into jars and
> > sealed upside down and then stored that way. The leaf lard and other
> (SNIP)
>
> If I ever get lucky & win the lottery (a real one, online scams
> excluded) I gonna look you up & try that hog.  I'll bring the homebrew
> Scotch!  :)
>
> Slainte!
> regards Harry
>

I use an aquarium heater in the winter where it gets bloody cold in the shed. 
Alternatively, I have a tea chest with a 15 watt globe in it and heavily
insulated inside.  Both work well.

Blanik



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: drboater <dww@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Stopped fermentation
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct:15:55 -0000
>
>
> Thanks for all the tips.
> I tasted the wash and it was still very sweet. So I gave the bin a
> good stir and kept the heating on and it fermented again for another 2
> days. It stopped again by this morning. I think this must be because
> it really has finished this time. I'll taste.
>
> > Ohhhh, one more thing, David - Please git that Heater away from
> > your wash before you A. Melt your Primary Fermenter...
> > B. Cause Bacteria to turn your wash to vineger...
> > C. Burn all the alcohol out of the wash....
>
> On the topic of temperature, what are the temperature limits can you
> get away with. My boat gets pretty cold, maybe 5 to 10 degrees C
> overnight now it's getting colder. Is a heater belt a good thing to
> use? I'm trying to avoid big fluctuations. When I put the wood burner
> on it gets roasting, which I'm trying to avoid doing.

>



"Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni
Buddha)

SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



--
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Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com

Powered by Outblaze

Seeing as we are all breaking the law anyway, I would suggest that you leave it
for at least two months, preferably in a place that has changes in temperature. 
You will see the colour changes and if you taste it on a weekly basis you can
remove the oak when you're happy with the progress.

Remember that your spirit is at 65abv so you will need to dilute it a bit before
tasting.

blanik



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Aging with oak chips
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct:44:12 -0000
>
>
> Answer: As long as ya can keep from drinkin it.....
>
> Law requires true Bourbon to be aged in oak barrels for a minimum of
> 2 years while most age for 4 years, including all Tenessee sour mash
> whiskeys...
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim.
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, SLOUGHVIEW@... wrote:
> >
> > the question i have is how long should one keep oak chips in our
> brew??
> > thanks
> > slough
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bigjim <bigjim@...>
> > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, 29 Oct:06 pm
> > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Aging with oak chips
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              Link, I just came in from The Jack  Daniels
> Invitational
> > BBQ Cook Off in
> >
> > Lynchburg, Tn. We got 5th in chicken .
> >
> >    Any how I came across a fellow with a pick-up loaded with some
> tops
> > from
> >
> > their whiskey kegs. I scored 4 of them (all I could get on the
> footrest
> > of
> >
> > my powerchair) They are charred on one side and still smell like Gentleman
> >
> > Jack and they were still damp. I thought I would saw up a stave or
> 2
> > and
> >
> > char the other 3 sides  and slip one in a Mason jar with my next
> batch.
> >
> >    They made an announcement at the awards that if anybody that if anybody
> >
> > wanted one, they had 100 kegs they would sell us for $30.00 US
> apiece.
> > I did
> >
> > not have enough room to get one. They normally go for $75.00 US.
> >
> >    You have my email, if you want a couple of stave off one of
> these
> > tops,
> >
> > Let me know and I will send ya some.
> >
> >    I'll put up some pictures from The Jack and post the URL.
> Anybody
> > else?
> >
> >   I saw one vendor selling BBQ that was cooking with the tops.
> >
> > James A. "Big Jim" Whitten
> >
> > bigjim@...
> >
> > www.lazyq.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Link D'Antoni" <link2d@...>
> >
> > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 2:08 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Aging with oak chips
> >
> >
> >
> > > Jim,
> >
> > > I did an experiment using various woods that I use to
> >
> > > BBQ.  Figured if it's good enough to smoke (BBQ) then
> >
> > > it's good enough to drink.
> >
> > > Cherry wood had a harsh taste.  I used raw, toasted,
> >
> > > and charred.  Raw was best but left and aftertaste.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > The others woods that I experimented with were:
> >
> > > -Live Oak, really really good
> >
> > > -Pecan, almost as good as the Live Oak.
> >
> > > -Hickory, the tannin came though but I didn't like
> >
> > > the taste)
> >
> > > -Lemon & Orange wood, a slight hint of fruity taste.
> >
> > > Not enough to waste my time.
> >
> > >  There again I used raw, toasted and charred of each.
> >
> > > Afterward, I blended all samples except the Live Oak
> >
> > > and Pecan thinking that I would filter and blend into
> >
> > > some later.  The mix is just great.
> >
> > > I think that pictures of the experiment are in
> >
> > > Distillers/Photos.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Link
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >> Speaking of Oak Chips, Ive heard of people aging in
> >
> > >> cherry wood,
> >
> > >> apple and other hard woods - depending on the liquor
> >
> > >> being produced.
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> Was just wondering, I have a big bag of Hickory
> >
> > >> Chips from
> >
> > >> barbaqueing - has anyone every used them charred to
> >
> > >> age whiskey??
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> "A Fine Wine is just like a Beautiful woman -
> >
> > >> Fragrant , mellow, and
> >
> > >> smooth on the pallat..."
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> JIm.
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rhodeseng"
> >
> > >> <rhodeseng@>
> >
> > >> wrote:
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> > homemade oak chunks work fine also in mason jars.
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> > about 2 pieces the size and length of your finger
> >
> > >> charred with a
> >
> > >> > propane torch will do the trick.
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum
> >
> > >> norbu" <blanik@>
> >
> > >> > wrote:
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > Way to go, easy.
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > Blanik
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > >> > > > From: easythreesix <easythreesix@>
> >
> > >> > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > >> > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging with oak chips
> >
> > >> > > > Date: Wed, 24 Oct:27:16 -0000
> >
> > >> > > >
> >
> > >> > > >
> >
> > >> > > > Gents,
> >
> > >> > > >
> >
> > >> > > > I'm using some mason jars to age some
> >
> > >> different homemade
> >
> > >> > whiskies with
> >
> > >> > > > some toasted/charred oak chips (approximately
> >
> > >> 2 teaspoons of
> >
> > >> > chips per
> >
> > >> > > > quart).  Am I doing this the right way, or is
> >
> > >> there a better
> >
> > >> > type of
> >
> > >> > > > container to use when doing this?
> >
> > >> > > >
> >
> > >> > > > Thanks,
> >
> > >> > > >
> >
> > >> > > > Easy
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > >
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by
> >
> > >> human beings".
> >
> > >> > (Shakyamuni Buddha)
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
> >
> > >> > > http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > --
> >
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> >
> > >> > > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
> >
> > >> > > Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> > > Powered by Outblaze
> >
> > >> > >
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > __________________________________________________
> >
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
> > > FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> ___
> > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
> Mail! -
> > http://mail.aol.com
> >

>



"Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni
Buddha)

SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
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Right Pint - Thats what i was trying to say...  Till there aint no
more to sample lol.

Jim.


--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...>
wrote:
--snip--
>
> The answer to how long for soaking wood chips is... You soak them
> until you deem it finished. This might require regular sampling.
>

i age for bout one month till it starts to get a nice pretty color.
then i start to airate ? how often depends on how low my stock is.
since when barrel aging you loose about 3% a year,i go by the same rule
of thumb. when my abv has dropped 9-10% i consider that a good 3yr
aging. then i filter cut and bottle.works good just doesn't last a long
time.  mike                                             --- In
new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> Right Pint - Thats what i was trying to say...  Till there aint no
> more to sample lol.
>
> Jim.
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@>
> wrote:
> --snip--
> >
> > The answer to how long for soaking wood chips is... You soak them
> > until you deem it finished. This might require regular sampling.
> >
>

Well Mike,

  As said in an earlier thread, I dont like giving those angels more
then their due share, but if it makes it smooth to your taste then
it works for me....

"A fine whiskey is like a Beautiful woman, pretty, aromatic, and
smooth on the pallate."

Jim.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nenengstoute"
<nenengstoute@...> wrote:
>
> i age for bout one month till it starts to get a nice pretty
color.
> then i start to airate ? how often depends on how low my stock is.
> since when barrel aging you loose about 3% a year,i go by the same
rule
> of thumb. when my abv has dropped 9-10% i consider that a good 3yr
> aging. then i filter cut and bottle.works good just doesn't last a
long
> time.  mike                                             --- In
> new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@>
wrote:
> >
> > Right Pint - Thats what i was trying to say...  Till there aint
no
> > more to sample lol.
> >
> > Jim.
> >
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@>
> > wrote:
> > --snip--
> > >
> > > The answer to how long for soaking wood chips is... You soak
them
> > > until you deem it finished. This might require regular
sampling.
> > >
> >
>

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
>
> All the paranoia about 'being caught' making spirits as a hobby
simply causes anxiety that is unnecessary.  You are better rewarded by
following the 'rules' and to not brag about what you are doing.
>
> We make small amounts of spirit and we DON'T SELL IT.  The cost
involved for any government to take a hobby distiller to court has to
be prohibitive so why would they bother. If you keep your nose clean
and your mouth shut I don't think the anxiety is ever going to be a
problem. It really is common sense IMHO.
>
> Relax and use the wasted energy to enjoy your hobby. After all, as
Mason said 'We not making crystal meth or crack here and peddling the
stuff in schools.  And there aren't a whole lot of people who are
going to bother trying to do what we do anyway.  It is work.'
>
> I suspect that some folk 'get off' on worrying about being 'caught'.
Don't be one of them. Stay within the bounds of common sense and all
should be OK.
>
>
> blanik
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings".
(Shakyamuni Buddha)
>
> SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
> http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
>
> Powered by Outblaze
>
If the government took your private property,like your house would
that be more worth it to the government?

i don't know who stays drunker,my angels or my potbelly pigs!
mike                                                               ---
  In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
wrote:
>
> Well Mike,
>
>  As said in an earlier thread, I dont like giving those angels more
> then their due share, but if it makes it smooth to your taste then
> it works for me....
>
> "A fine whiskey is like a Beautiful woman, pretty, aromatic, and
> smooth on the pallate."
>
> Jim.
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nenengstoute"
> <nenengstoute@> wrote:
> >
> > i age for bout one month till it starts to get a nice pretty
> color.
> > then i start to airate ? how often depends on how low my stock
is.
> > since when barrel aging you loose about 3% a year,i go by the
same
> rule
> > of thumb. when my abv has dropped 9-10% i consider that a good
3yr
> > aging. then i filter cut and bottle.works good just doesn't last
a
> long
> > time.  mike                                             --- In
> > new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Right Pint - Thats what i was trying to say...  Till there aint
> no
> > > more to sample lol.
> > >
> > > Jim.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@>
> > > wrote:
> > > --snip--
> > > >
> > > > The answer to how long for soaking wood chips is... You soak
> them
> > > > until you deem it finished. This might require regular
> sampling.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Nope,

If there was naturally fermented methanol or "wood alcohol" in
charred oak, then most people over the past 200 or 300 years wood
have died (mispelling and pun intended) of formaldeyde poisoning to
the liver (which is what methanol digests into) or gone blind from
drinking Bourbon and other whiskeys or liquors aged in charred oak
barrels for 2 to 4 or more years...

The term "wood alcohol" originated by Robert Boyle, in 1661, who
called it spirit of box, because he produced it via the distillation
of boxwood in natural occuring yeast and bacteria. It later became
known as pyroxylic spirit or "wood alcohol".

During the old days it was made from fermented wood pulp.  Today, it
is now produced synthetically by a multi-step process.

In short, natural gas and steam are reformed in a furnace to produce
hydrogen and carbon monoxide; then, hydrogen and carbon monoxide
gases react under pressure in the presence of a catalyst.

Since you added the charred oak to about 120 - 125 proof alcohol for
aging, this would have killed any yeasts or bacterial matter - so no
methanol could possibly have been produced.

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.


--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...>
wrote:
>
> Any possibility of increased methanol? They do call it "wood
alchohol"
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
> <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
> >
> > Nope, just dont add any apricot pits or peach pits to it and you
will
> > be ok (they have cyanide in em) - watch out for the fruit flys
too.
> >
> > Jim.
> >
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I was thinking of re-distilling some crappy brandy that has
been aged
> > > on  oak chips. Is there a problem if a bit of oak gets into
the pot
> > > and distilled along with it? There are woody stems that are
part of
> > > the mash with grappa.
> > > Cheers
> > > M
> > >
> >
>

Dang Mike,

Just please dont butcher those poor little pot belly pigs <sigh>, my
old girlfriend in Tennessee, I met on the internet keep a pot
bellied pig in her house as a pet and named it after me  "James"...

Jim.



--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nenengstoute"
<nenengstoute@...> wrote:
>
> i don't know who stays drunker,my angels or my potbelly pigs!
>
mike                                                               --
-
>  In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Well Mike,
> >
> >  As said in an earlier thread, I dont like giving those angels
more
> > then their due share, but if it makes it smooth to your taste
then
> > it works for me....
> >
> > "A fine whiskey is like a Beautiful woman, pretty, aromatic, and
> > smooth on the pallate."
> >
> > Jim.
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nenengstoute"
> > <nenengstoute@> wrote:
> > >
> > > i age for bout one month till it starts to get a nice pretty
> > color.
> > > then i start to airate ? how often depends on how low my stock
> is.
> > > since when barrel aging you loose about 3% a year,i go by the
> same
> > rule
> > > of thumb. when my abv has dropped 9-10% i consider that a good
> 3yr
> > > aging. then i filter cut and bottle.works good just doesn't
last
> a
> > long
> > > time.  mike                                             --- In

UPDATE:
Have duplicated turbo performance using obtainable ingredients. Am in
the process of figuring out what ingredients are superfluous. Although
it is not fine tuned for the absolute least amount of ingredients yet
it is a working formula and doesn't taste awful. There didn't seem to
be much interest in this thread but if anyone is interested I will
share with anyone who will continue parallel testing and willing to
share results. Current tests are charting to beat turbo's using 1118 or
bakers yeast. Contrary to many posts, bakers yeast is easily capable of
doing 14% fast. Will explore the higher alcohol limits after the
formula is nailed down.

David


--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@...> wrote:
>
> Gathering information and have done first trials making home made
turbo
> receipes with only moderate success so far. Looking for any secret
> ingredients I have not been able to gleem from the web so far. The
> turbo's I have tried so far work as advertised, to my surprise, and I
> am impressed, but are very expensive. I am new to this group and
maybe
> this has already been discussed but the archives are huge. Any help
> would be appreciated. Please point me in the right direction.
>
> I have lists of all the minerals, vitamins, yeast hulls, suspended
> solids, nutrients, buffers, strains, etc, I could find but little
> information on the exact proportions of the minor ones.
>
> David
>

Thanks for the reply. Thats some interesting stuff.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> Nope,
>
> If there was naturally fermented methanol or "wood alcohol" in
> charred oak, then most people over the past 200 or 300 years wood
> have died (mispelling and pun intended) of formaldeyde poisoning to
> the liver (which is what methanol digests into) or gone blind from
> drinking Bourbon and other whiskeys or liquors aged in charred oak
> barrels for 2 to 4 or more years...
>
> The term "wood alcohol" originated by Robert Boyle, in 1661, who
> called it spirit of box, because he produced it via the distillation
> of boxwood in natural occuring yeast and bacteria. It later became
> known as pyroxylic spirit or "wood alcohol".
>
> During the old days it was made from fermented wood pulp.  Today, it
> is now produced synthetically by a multi-step process.
>
> In short, natural gas and steam are reformed in a furnace to produce
> hydrogen and carbon monoxide; then, hydrogen and carbon monoxide
> gases react under pressure in the presence of a catalyst.
>
> Since you added the charred oak to about 120 - 125 proof alcohol for
> aging, this would have killed any yeasts or bacterial matter - so no
> methanol could possibly have been produced.
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim.
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Any possibility of increased methanol? They do call it "wood
> alchohol"
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
> > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nope, just dont add any apricot pits or peach pits to it and you
> will
> > > be ok (they have cyanide in em) - watch out for the fruit flys
> too.
> > >
> > > Jim.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking of re-distilling some crappy brandy that has
> been aged
> > > > on  oak chips. Is there a problem if a bit of oak gets into
> the pot
> > > > and distilled along with it? There are woody stems that are
> part of
> > > > the mash with grappa.
> > > > Cheers
> > > > M
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi David,

Thanks for your efforts. I'm certainly interested.
I use fresh bakers yeast and agree that 14% is quite achievable
without stressing the yeast out.

Ian...

On 11/1/07, David Dolata <david@...> wrote:
>
>
> UPDATE:
> Have duplicated turbo performance using obtainable ingredients. Am in
> the process of figuring out what ingredients are superfluous. Although
> it is not fine tuned for the absolute least amount of ingredients yet
> it is a working formula and doesn't taste awful. There didn't seem to
> be much interest in this thread but if anyone is interested I will
> share with anyone who will continue parallel testing and willing to
> share results. Current tests are charting to beat turbo's using 1118 or
> bakers yeast. Contrary to many posts, bakers yeast is easily capable of
> doing 14% fast. Will explore the higher alcohol limits after the
> formula is nailed down.
>
> David

http://consumer.lallemand.com/ has tons of information on this.  look
for the Fermaid K specs and anything you can find by Dr. Clayton Cone.
  That's how I formulated my "Turbo" using Red Star EC1118 knockoff as
a starting point.  Basically the key is DAP (how much and when) yeast
hulls, and buffers (to keep the acidity down). This is for a straight
sugar wash.  Use some molasses and the buffer problem goes away as
well as simplifying the others.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@...> wrote:
>
> UPDATE:
> Have duplicated turbo performance using obtainable ingredients. Am in
> the process of figuring out what ingredients are superfluous. Although
> it is not fine tuned for the absolute least amount of ingredients yet
> it is a working formula and doesn't taste awful. There didn't seem to
> be much interest in this thread but if anyone is interested I will
> share with anyone who will continue parallel testing and willing to
> share results. Current tests are charting to beat turbo's using 1118 or
> bakers yeast. Contrary to many posts, bakers yeast is easily capable of
> doing 14% fast. Will explore the higher alcohol limits after the
> formula is nailed down.
>
> David
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@> wrote:
> >
> > Gathering information and have done first trials making home made
> turbo
> > receipes with only moderate success so far. Looking for any secret
> > ingredients I have not been able to gleem from the web so far. The
> > turbo's I have tried so far work as advertised, to my surprise, and I
> > am impressed, but are very expensive. I am new to this group and
> maybe
> > this has already been discussed but the archives are huge. Any help
> > would be appreciated. Please point me in the right direction.
> >
> > I have lists of all the minerals, vitamins, yeast hulls, suspended
> > solids, nutrients, buffers, strains, etc, I could find but little
> > information on the exact proportions of the minor ones.
> >
> > David
> >
>

Hi again David,

This is an interesting thread, But...

While never trying Turbo yeasts due to what users have said about it
with bad results, and still not knowing what your trying to make
with it, I have reviewed your listing of nutrients below.

As far as bakers yeast is concerned, i dont recommend it for any
type of sugar wash since it is a bottom fermenting yeast and needs
something to attach itself to.  Futhermore, the most sucess i've had
with it is fermenting out a 13 / 14% wash in about 10 days and it
really doesnt clear.

As stated in earlier posts, the fastest acting non-Turbo yeast i
have experimented with is Lalvin EC 1118.  So far ive made 5 mashes
of 5 - 6 gallons of 16% - 17% potential abv which fermented out and
started clearing in 4 days.  Im currently trying a 2 gallon mash
with a potential of 20% to see how far it can be pushed.

Reviewing the needs of yeast as far as nutrients, one of the bad
things Turbo yeast makers add is nitrogen which can result in
producing Schweitzer's reagent with ammonia smelling, blue colored
alcohol.  Yes, yeast is a plant and even in Tony's Home Distillers a
recipe calls for plant food added -lol- along with alot of other
stuff.  Yeast basically likes Diammonium Phospates (DAP), minerals
and vitamins (especially B complex) - just like most plants, along
with a low ph factor in its growth environment (which also prevents
bacterial infections and makin vinegar instead)...

Now after saying all that from what i learned about wine making in a
past life,let me tell you what I use to make corn whiskey now with
the nutrients list.

The 6 major ingredients I use are:

1. White cane sugar - to produce alcohol.

2. Brown Sugar containing 40% Molassas that provides:
-sugar,
-Calcium,
-Iron,
-Magnesium,
-Phosphorus,
-Potassium,
-Sodium,
-Zinc,
-Copper,
-Manganese,
-Selenium,
-along with the vitamins:
-Thiamin
-Riboflavin
-Niacin
-Pantothenic acid
-Vitamin B-6
-Folic acid.
(from USDA National Agricultural Library)

3. Yeast Nutrient which provides Diammonium Phosfates (DAP) and
yeast hulls.

4. Acid blend which provides:
-citric acid,
-Tartaric acid,
-Malic acid.

5. Either Corn meal or cracked corn - for flavors.

6. (the secret ingredient)  CORN FLAKES - KELLOGS IF POSSIBLE
     which provides:

-Milled corn, sugar, malt and corn syrup along with
-sodium ascorbate (vitamin c)
-iron,
-niacinamide (vitamin B3)
-cyanocobalamin (vitamin B12)
-Thiamin (vitamin B1 and B6)
-riboflavin (vitamin B2)
-folic acid (A and B vitamins)

(have also now been adding Beano to turn some starch from the corn
into additional sugars which contains alpha-galactosidase enzyme.)

So, to make a long story short, at least i know the yeast strain im
using and what is going into my mash unlike Turbo yeasts where they
keep the strain secret and the ingredients they use....

Vino es Veritas,
James.

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Kent" <kegscruiser@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> Thanks for your efforts. I'm certainly interested.
> I use fresh bakers yeast and agree that 14% is quite achievable
> without stressing the yeast out.
>
> Ian...
>
> On 11/1/07, David Dolata <david@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > UPDATE:
> > Have duplicated turbo performance using obtainable ingredients.
Am in
> > the process of figuring out what ingredients are superfluous.
Although
> > it is not fine tuned for the absolute least amount of
ingredients yet
> > it is a working formula and doesn't taste awful. There didn't
seem to
> > be much interest in this thread but if anyone is interested I
will
> > share with anyone who will continue parallel testing and willing
to
> > share results. Current tests are charting to beat turbo's using
1118 or
> > bakers yeast. Contrary to many posts, bakers yeast is easily
capable of
> > doing 14% fast. Will explore the higher alcohol limits after the
> > formula is nailed down.
> >
> > David
>
< snip --------- >
These are my notes so far trying to create a turbo for a sugar wash:

Vitamins, minerals and additives to try, I have no info on amounts...
B5 (pantothenate)(heavy needs)
B1 (thiamine)
B3 (niacin)
B6
B7 (biotin)
B9 (folic acid)
iron
copper
zinc
cobalt
manganese
magnesium
DAP (12 pounds per 1000 gal)(3-5 tablespoons per 7 gal??)
Epsom Salts(Magnesium Sulfate)(magnesium source?)
hydrolyzed caseinate (weight lifters protein)

[Still needed: something to keep yeast suspended, (although the turbo
was so agressively bubbling it may not be necessary, and appropriate
buffer to aim for about 3-4PH]

other things to try adding (benefits may be covered by above)...
brewers yeast
dark molassas
lemon juice (citric acid) to adjust ph down

Thanks for the input.
All of the vitamin and minerals you listed are indeed needed plus
amino acids and others. I wish I could get some info on what is
unnessarily too much. I am still in the midst of narrowing everything
down but I can tell you there is nothing inheritantly slow about
bakers yeast. My latest test actually completed run was from 14PA to
0PA in 65 hours and was bubbling so much that nothing settled to the
bottom. Currently another bakers yeast run went from 14PA to 6PA in
the first 20 hours and I had to take the air lock off the bubbling is
so violent. I have very high hopes for this one. I also think 1118 is
going to be better tasting in the end and am duplicating all the good
results with that as time permits. I am using strictly sugar washes.
Any more "secrets" others have had good luck with are appreciated.
David

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi again David,
>
> This is an interesting thread, But...
>
> While never trying Turbo yeasts due to what users have said about
it
> with bad results, and still not knowing what your trying to make
> with it, I have reviewed your listing of nutrients below.
>
> As far as bakers yeast is concerned, i dont recommend it for any
> type of sugar wash since it is a bottom fermenting yeast and needs
> something to attach itself to.  Futhermore, the most sucess i've
had
> with it is fermenting out a 13 / 14% wash in about 10 days and it
> really doesnt clear.
>
> As stated in earlier posts, the fastest acting non-Turbo yeast i
> have experimented with is Lalvin EC 1118.  So far ive made 5 mashes
> of 5 - 6 gallons of 16% - 17% potential abv which fermented out and
> started clearing in 4 days.  Im currently trying a 2 gallon mash
> with a potential of 20% to see how far it can be pushed.
>
> Reviewing the needs of yeast as far as nutrients, one of the bad
> things Turbo yeast makers add is nitrogen which can result in
> producing Schweitzer's reagent with ammonia smelling, blue colored
> alcohol.  Yes, yeast is a plant and even in Tony's Home Distillers
a
> recipe calls for plant food added -lol- along with alot of other
> stuff.  Yeast basically likes Diammonium Phospates (DAP), minerals
> and vitamins (especially B complex) - just like most plants, along
> with a low ph factor in its growth environment (which also prevents
> bacterial infections and makin vinegar instead)...
>
> Now after saying all that from what i learned about wine making in
a
> past life,let me tell you what I use to make corn whiskey now with
> the nutrients list.
>
> The 6 major ingredients I use are:
>
> 1. White cane sugar - to produce alcohol.
>
> 2. Brown Sugar containing 40% Molassas that provides:
> -sugar,
> -Calcium,
> -Iron,
> -Magnesium,
> -Phosphorus,
> -Potassium,
> -Sodium,
> -Zinc,
> -Copper,
> -Manganese,
> -Selenium,
> -along with the vitamins:
> -Thiamin
> -Riboflavin
> -Niacin
> -Pantothenic acid
> -Vitamin B-6
> -Folic acid.
> (from USDA National Agricultural Library)
>
> 3. Yeast Nutrient which provides Diammonium Phosfates (DAP) and
> yeast hulls.
>
> 4. Acid blend which provides:
> -citric acid,
> -Tartaric acid,
> -Malic acid.
>
> 5. Either Corn meal or cracked corn - for flavors.
>
> 6. (the secret ingredient)  CORN FLAKES - KELLOGS IF POSSIBLE
>     which provides:
>
> -Milled corn, sugar, malt and corn syrup along with
> -sodium ascorbate (vitamin c)
> -iron,
> -niacinamide (vitamin B3)
> -cyanocobalamin (vitamin B12)
> -Thiamin (vitamin B1 and B6)
> -riboflavin (vitamin B2)
> -folic acid (A and B vitamins)
>
> (have also now been adding Beano to turn some starch from the corn
> into additional sugars which contains alpha-galactosidase enzyme.)
>
> So, to make a long story short, at least i know the yeast strain im
> using and what is going into my mash unlike Turbo yeasts where they
> keep the strain secret and the ingredients they use....
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> James.
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Kent" <kegscruiser@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Thanks for your efforts. I'm certainly interested.
> > I use fresh bakers yeast and agree that 14% is quite achievable
> > without stressing the yeast out.
> >
> > Ian...
> >
> > On 11/1/07, David Dolata <david@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > UPDATE:
> > > Have duplicated turbo performance using obtainable ingredients.
> Am in
> > > the process of figuring out what ingredients are superfluous.
> Although
> > > it is not fine tuned for the absolute least amount of
> ingredients yet
> > > it is a working formula and doesn't taste awful. There didn't
> seem to
> > > be much interest in this thread but if anyone is interested I
> will
> > > share with anyone who will continue parallel testing and
willing
> to
> > > share results. Current tests are charting to beat turbo's using
> 1118 or
> > > bakers yeast. Contrary to many posts, bakers yeast is easily
> capable of
> > > doing 14% fast. Will explore the higher alcohol limits after the
> > > formula is nailed down.
> > >
> > > David
> >
> < snip --------- >
> These are my notes so far trying to create a turbo for a sugar wash:
>
> Vitamins, minerals and additives to try, I have no info on
amounts...
> B5 (pantothenate)(heavy needs)
> B1 (thiamine)
> B3 (niacin)
> B6
> B7 (biotin)
> B9 (folic acid)
> iron
> copper
> zinc
> cobalt
> manganese
> magnesium
> DAP (12 pounds per 1000 gal)(3-5 tablespoons per 7 gal??)
> Epsom Salts(Magnesium Sulfate)(magnesium source?)
> hydrolyzed caseinate (weight lifters protein)
>
> [Still needed: something to keep yeast suspended, (although the
turbo
> was so agressively bubbling it may not be necessary, and appropriate
> buffer to aim for about 3-4PH]
>
> other things to try adding (benefits may be covered by above)...
> brewers yeast
> dark molassas
> lemon juice (citric acid) to adjust ph down
>

Ahhhhh Dave, Dave, Dave,-

The Art of making a fine liquor/wine is in the quantities and
qualities of each ingredient that are combined in the
mash/wash/must/wort and how it is fermented...  Then comes the cuts
on the distallations...  Then comes the Aging process...

Try not to be so concerned about a super fast fermentation process -
thats just the first step :-).  Time is not of the essence here, Mon
Ami...

Remember - it takes a week to ferment and years to age a good
liquor/wine....

BTW, if you want to make a neutral tasting alcohol, use Rice Krispies
(read the ingredients listing sometimes), instead of Corn Flakes for
all them nutrients your looking for... As far as that dang bakers
yeast - just use it for baking...,please.

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.

PS. Heres a nice site if you want to learn about Bakers yeast..
http://www.dakotayeast.com/yeast_production.html

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input.
> All of the vitamin and minerals you listed are indeed needed plus
> amino acids and others. I wish I could get some info on what is
> unnessarily too much. I am still in the midst of narrowing
everything
> down but I can tell you there is nothing inheritantly slow about
> bakers yeast. My latest test actually completed run was from 14PA
to
> 0PA in 65 hours and was bubbling so much that nothing settled to
the
> bottom. Currently another bakers yeast run went from 14PA to 6PA
in
> the first 20 hours and I had to take the air lock off the bubbling
is
> so violent. I have very high hopes for this one. I also think 1118
is
> going to be better tasting in the end and am duplicating all the
good
> results with that as time permits. I am using strictly sugar
washes.
> Any more "secrets" others have had good luck with are appreciated.
> David

Jim,
Thanks for the rice crispies hint. I will definitely try it, any idea
on amounts?. Neutral is definitely what I am after. I do require the
speed for my need. I am in the midst of setting up a small comercial
distillery and right now going back and forth for my basic permit,
not a fun or easy process. This is not just for my own needs. I need
speed and cheap for economic reasons, and free of as many of the
other alcohols and byproducts as I can get while keeping the speed. I
am trying for speed first and intend to work backward from there. You
can probably help me with another question. Some of my PH's are
getting down into the mid 3's but seem to work quite well. Any
ramifications to that as long as the yeast is surviving? Everything I
read says to keep between 4 and 4.6, never lower than 4 but I don't
know exactly why except a claim of it killing the yeast.???
Thanks again,
David

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> Ahhhhh Dave, Dave, Dave,-
>
> The Art of making a fine liquor/wine is in the quantities and
> qualities of each ingredient that are combined in the
> mash/wash/must/wort and how it is fermented...  Then comes the cuts
> on the distallations...  Then comes the Aging process...
>
> Try not to be so concerned about a super fast fermentation process -

> thats just the first step :-).  Time is not of the essence here,
Mon
> Ami...
>
> Remember - it takes a week to ferment and years to age a good
> liquor/wine....
>
> BTW, if you want to make a neutral tasting alcohol, use Rice
Krispies
> (read the ingredients listing sometimes), instead of Corn Flakes
for
> all them nutrients your looking for... As far as that dang bakers
> yeast - just use it for baking...,please.
>
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim.
>
> PS. Heres a nice site if you want to learn about Bakers yeast..
> http://www.dakotayeast.com/yeast_production.html
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the input.
> > All of the vitamin and minerals you listed are indeed needed plus
> > amino acids and others. I wish I could get some info on what is
> > unnessarily too much. I am still in the midst of narrowing
> everything
> > down but I can tell you there is nothing inheritantly slow about
> > bakers yeast. My latest test actually completed run was from 14PA
> to
> > 0PA in 65 hours and was bubbling so much that nothing settled to
> the
> > bottom. Currently another bakers yeast run went from 14PA to 6PA
> in
> > the first 20 hours and I had to take the air lock off the
bubbling
> is
> > so violent. I have very high hopes for this one. I also think
1118
> is
> > going to be better tasting in the end and am duplicating all the
> good
> > results with that as time permits. I am using strictly sugar
> washes.
> > Any more "secrets" others have had good luck with are appreciated.
> > David
>

Wow Dave,

A small commercial distillery huh?

What again are you planning on making???  If your setting up that,
then you surely could afford buying white sugar, brown sugar or
molasses (depending on price) and EC 1118 yeast (not bakers yeast)
in bulk, along with yeast nutrients, acid blend, and rice krispies,
etc.

If you let me know the quantites of wash per batch your trying to
produce - then will try to give you the the amount percents for
ingredients.

PH levels are no problem - wine makers shoot for a 3.5 to 4.0 PH
and whiskey makers shoot for 4.0 - 5.0, but if it gets too low, some
baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) will increase it.  Just expect a .5
decrease in PH as the batch is feremnted (hope ya already know that
if your going this deep into distilling ;-).


--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@...>
wrote:
>
> Jim,
> Thanks for the rice crispies hint. I will definitely try it, any
idea
> on amounts?. Neutral is definitely what I am after. I do require
the
> speed for my need. I am in the midst of setting up a small
comercial
> distillery and right now going back and forth for my basic permit,
> not a fun or easy process. This is not just for my own needs. I
need
> speed and cheap for economic reasons, and free of as many of the
> other alcohols and byproducts as I can get while keeping the
speed. I
> am trying for speed first and intend to work backward from there.
You
> can probably help me with another question. Some of my PH's are
> getting down into the mid 3's but seem to work quite well. Any
> ramifications to that as long as the yeast is surviving?
Everything I
> read says to keep between 4 and 4.6, never lower than 4 but I
don't
> know exactly why except a claim of it killing the yeast.???
> Thanks again,
> David
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
> <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
> >
> > Ahhhhh Dave, Dave, Dave,-
> >
> > The Art of making a fine liquor/wine is in the quantities and
> > qualities of each ingredient that are combined in the
> > mash/wash/must/wort and how it is fermented...  Then comes the
cuts
> > on the distallations...  Then comes the Aging process...
> >
> > Try not to be so concerned about a super fast fermentation
process -
>
> > thats just the first step :-).  Time is not of the essence here,
> Mon
> > Ami...
> >
> > Remember - it takes a week to ferment and years to age a good
> > liquor/wine....
> >
> > BTW, if you want to make a neutral tasting alcohol, use Rice
> Krispies
> > (read the ingredients listing sometimes), instead of Corn Flakes
> for
> > all them nutrients your looking for... As far as that dang
bakers
> > yeast - just use it for baking...,please.
> >
> > Vino es Veritas,
> > Jim.
> >
> > PS. Heres a nice site if you want to learn about Bakers yeast..
> > http://www.dakotayeast.com/yeast_production.html

EVERY cost matters!
Opening a distillery is a catch 22, one cannot legally admit to
experimenting without going full blown with it. Production at some
level must start 60 days after getting the permit. The way I
understand it you cannot just get the permit and do R&D for years,
they want that tax money from sales. The only product to start with
is Vodka for obvious reasons if one wants imediate cash flow.

Some of my tests are changing PH from 6.6 to 3.5 during the ferment
so right now I am starting out on the high side aiming for 6 or over.
Good bad or indifferent??

The biggest cost is the white sugar. Second biggest expense is time
which equates to volume of must=overhead. Then energy, then labor.

My test batches are 7 gal each. R&D will use 275 gal totes. I don't
know about produciton fermentation tanks but I know shallow is
supposed to be better.

Using turbo yeasts would mean $200 per batch for the yeast and
nutrients which is too much for that portion. I'm sure I can do at
least as good with some effort. Besides turbo yeasts sure don't taste
good, enough said about the taste. I know with some effort I can
product a fast must with good distiling characteristics. ie: not so
many of the other alcohols, ets. making for a more economical
distillation.

Thanks again for your input.
David



--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
> Wow Dave,
>
> A small commercial distillery huh?
>
> What again are you planning on making???  If your setting up that,
> then you surely could afford buying white sugar, brown sugar or
> molasses (depending on price) and EC 1118 yeast (not bakers yeast)
> in bulk, along with yeast nutrients, acid blend, and rice krispies,
> etc.
>
> If you let me know the quantites of wash per batch your trying to
> produce - then will try to give you the the amount percents for
> ingredients.
>
> PH levels are no problem - wine makers shoot for a 3.5 to 4.0 PH
> and whiskey makers shoot for 4.0 - 5.0, but if it gets too low,
some
> baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) will increase it.  Just expect
a .5
> decrease in PH as the batch is feremnted (hope ya already know that
> if your going this deep into distilling ;-).
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Jim,
> > Thanks for the rice crispies hint. I will definitely try it, any
> idea
> > on amounts?. Neutral is definitely what I am after. I do require
> the
> > speed for my need. I am in the midst of setting up a small
> comercial
> > distillery and right now going back and forth for my basic
permit,
> > not a fun or easy process. This is not just for my own needs. I
> need
> > speed and cheap for economic reasons, and free of as many of the
> > other alcohols and byproducts as I can get while keeping the
> speed. I
> > am trying for speed first and intend to work backward from there.
> You
> > can probably help me with another question. Some of my PH's are
> > getting down into the mid 3's but seem to work quite well. Any
> > ramifications to that as long as the yeast is surviving?
> Everything I
> > read says to keep between 4 and 4.6, never lower than 4 but I
> don't
> > know exactly why except a claim of it killing the yeast.???
> > Thanks again,
> > David
> >
> > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
> > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ahhhhh Dave, Dave, Dave,-
> > >
> > > The Art of making a fine liquor/wine is in the quantities and
> > > qualities of each ingredient that are combined in the
> > > mash/wash/must/wort and how it is fermented...  Then comes the
> cuts
> > > on the distallations...  Then comes the Aging process...
> > >
> > > Try not to be so concerned about a super fast fermentation
> process -
> >
> > > thats just the first step :-).  Time is not of the essence
here,
> > Mon
> > > Ami...
> > >
> > > Remember - it takes a week to ferment and years to age a good
> > > liquor/wine....
> > >
> > > BTW, if you want to make a neutral tasting alcohol, use Rice
> > Krispies
> > > (read the ingredients listing sometimes), instead of Corn
Flakes
> > for
> > > all them nutrients your looking for... As far as that dang
> bakers
> > > yeast - just use it for baking...,please.
> > >
> > > Vino es Veritas,
> > > Jim.
> > >
> > > PS. Heres a nice site if you want to learn about Bakers yeast..
> > > http://www.dakotayeast.com/yeast_production.html
>