if you distill fermented apple cider, it's no longer apple cider, but
ethanol.

--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
sspence@...
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--

----- Original Message -----
From: "Louie Belle" <louiebelle@...>
To: <Distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 4:26 PM
Subject: [Distillers] HARD APPLE CIDER


> Go TravelHi Louie here again.
> Yes I do mean distilled apple cider when I say Hard apple cider.
> Would this require filtering through charcoal, because I have no idea
> whatsoever as to how to filter it through charcoal. Can anyone tell
exactly
> how to filter through charcoal, or when this kind of filtering should be
> done.
>
> Thanks
>
> Louie
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
>         choose one... Travel Guides "How do you say... ?" Travel Checklist
More on Travel
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>

hard cider is just regular cider that has been allowed to ferment. sometimes
helped along with brown sugar and raisins.

Quick hard cider recipe
Do you ever have the problem of running out of wine or other alcoholic
beverages at large religious festivals? Are you tired of the constant buying
of wine at high prices? There is one fool-proof hard cider recipe that
anyone can make in one month. One time I bought a hard cider brewing kit,
made it and it tasted ok but was too dry for me. I went to a meeting at a
brewing club and was told that the simplest way to make hard cider was to
take a 5 gallon carboy (large glass bottle the kind that used to be used for
water years ago) fill it with apple cider, pitch, or put in two packets of
wine yeast (do not use bread yeast otherwise it will taste very bad) and let
it sit for a month.

To make this hard cider a few things must be in order to ensure the batch
does not turn out bad. First, sterilize the bottle either with iodine or
with one cap bleach mixed with water, then rinse very well. Pour in the
apple cider, fresh squeezed not from store. (You can get this from any apple
orchard and have them pour it in for you). With the cider in the jug put in
the two packets of wine yeast. Shaking is not necessary. You'll need a
blowoff tube. The blowoff tube is simply a clear plastic tube about the
diameter of a cigar. Take the blowoff tube and stick it into a cork with a
hole in it just large enough to squeeze the tube into. Put the cork in the
hole of the bottle and the other end of the tube in a bucket of clean water.
The reason for this is to allow the air created from the yeast to escape
without letting air into the carboy, which would spoil the batch making it
very sour.

The carboy should be kept in a cool dark place but not the refrigerator. I
doubt it would even fit there anyways. A closet is a good place. You should
check on it every day or so as sometimes the cork pops off from the
pressure. Let's say for instance that you put on the cork on but had no hole
in it with the blow off tube sticking out of it, the cork would pop off and
you'd have hard cider all over the walls, ceiling and floor and possible you
from the cork blowing off. After the month is over siphon the nectar of the
Gods into a clean carboy, large punchbowl or whatever you're going to use to
hold it for the ritual. If you know something about bottling you can bottle
it but that is a different set of procedures. When siphoning the mixture out
be sure not to disturb the carboy too much otherwise you'll stir the yeast
(thick white layer on inside bottom of carboy) up which will cloud the cider
and make it taste bad. One good way to siphon the mixture is to use a
racking tube which is a hard clear plastic tube long enough to go to the
bottom of the carboy but you want to get what's above the thick white layer
on the bottom.

1. Put cider in carboy
2. pitch yeast
3. put on cork & blow off tube
4. stick blowoff tube end in water
5. forget about it mostly for a month
6. after a month siphon it into another clean carboy
7. Do ritual and party hardy
This is a simple error-proof method of making hard cider. You can do the
same thing with any fresh squeezed fruit juice. This mixture will be "alive"
from the yeast as opposed to the dead wine you buy at the local liquor
store. We are a people who revere life, shouldn't we be putting life into
us?

Vidar Andrewson - Mind Fire

--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
sspence@...
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Sayers" <brubarn@...>
To: "Louie Belle" <louiebelle@...>
Cc: <Distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Hard apple cider


> Hi Louie, What do you mean by hard apple cider? Is this distilling apple
> cider.
>
> Louie Belle wrote:
>
> > Hi Louie here, I just want to know if anyone has any good recipies for
> > making Hard Apple Cider. And any other information on making Hard Apple
> > Cider. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Many Thanks
> >
> > Louie
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Free, Unlimited Calls Anywhere!
> > Visit Firetalk.com - click below.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5479/7/_/441693/_/962244033/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



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----
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
sspence@...
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--

----- Original Message -----
From: "Louie Belle" <louiebelle@...>
To: <Distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 4:26 PM
Subject: [Distillers] HARD APPLE CIDER


> Go TravelHi Louie here again.
> Yes I do mean distilled apple cider when I say Hard apple cider.
> Would this require filtering through charcoal, because I have no idea
> whatsoever as to how to filter it through charcoal. Can anyone tell
exactly
> how to filter through charcoal, or when this kind of filtering should be
> done.
>
> Thanks
>
> Louie
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
>         choose one... Travel Guides "How do you say... ?" Travel Checklist
More on Travel
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>

It Works, Its Legal, Its Easy, so Why Not?

Parents of 15-year-old find $71,000 cash hidden in his closet.

Does this headline look familiar? Of course it does.

You most likely have just seen this story recently featured on a major
nightly news program (USA).

His mother was cleaning and putting laundry away when she came across a
large brown paper bag
that was suspiciously buried beneath some clothes and a skateboard in
the
back of her 15-year-old
son's closet. Nothing could have prepared her for the shock she got when
she
opened the bag and
found it was full of cash. Five dollar bills, twenties, fifties and
hundreds
- all neatly rubber-banded in
labeled piles.

"My first thought was that he had robbed a bank", says the 41-year-old
woman, "There was over
$71,000 dollars in that bag - that's more than my husband earns in a
year".

The woman immediately called her husband at the car-dealership where he
worked to tell him what
she'd discovered. He came home right away and they drove together to the

boy's school and
picked him up. Little did they suspect that where the money came from
was
more shocking than
actually finding it in the closet.

As it turns out, the boy had been sending out via E-mail on the Internet
a
type of 'chain-letter' to
E-mail addresses that he obtained off of the Internet. Everyday after
school
for the past 2 months,
he had been doing this right on his computer in his bedroom.

"I just got the E-mail one day and I figured what the heck, I put my
name on
it like the instructions
said and I started sending it out", says the clever 15-year-old.

The E-mail letter listed 3 addresses and contained instructions to send
one
$5 dollar bill to the
person at the top of the list, then delete that address and move the
other 2
addresses up, and finally
to add your name to the bottom of the list. The letter goes on to state
that
you would receive
several thousand dollars in five dollar bills within 2 weeks if you sent
out
the letter with your name
at the bottom of the 3-address list "I get junk E-mail all the time, and
I
really didn't think it was
gonna work", the boy continues.

Within the first few days of sending out the E-mail, the Post Office Box

that his parents had gotten
him for his video-game magazine subscriptions began to fill up with not
magazines, but envelopes
containing $5 dollar bills.

"About a week later I rode [my bike] down to the post office and my box
had
1 magazine and
about 300 envelopes stuffed in it. There was also a yellow slip that
said I
had to go up to the [post
office] counter- I thought I was in trouble or something (laughs)". He
goes
on, "I went up to the
counter and they had a whole box of more mail for me. I had to ride back

home and empty out my
backpack 'cause I couldn't carry it all".

Over the next few weeks, the boy continued sending out the E-mail. "The
money just kept coming
in and I just kept sorting it and stashing it in the closet, I barely
had
time for my homework". He
had also been riding his bike to several of the area's banks and
exchanging
the $5 bills for twenties,
fifties and hundreds. "I didn't want the banks to get suspicious so I
kept
riding to different banks
with like five thousand at a time in my backpack. I would usually tell
the
lady at the bank counter
that my dad had sent me in [to exchange the money] and he was outside
waiting for me. One time
the lady gave me a really strange look and told me that she wouldn't be
able
to do it for me and my
dad would have to come in and do it, but I just rode to the next bank
down
the street (laughs).

" Surprisingly, the boy didn't have any reason to be afraid. The
reporting
news team examined and
investigated the so-called 'chain-letter' the boy was sending out and
found
that it wasn't a
chain-letter at all. In fact, it was completely legal according to US
Postal
and Lottery Laws, Title
18, Section 1302 and 1341, or Title 18, Section 3005 in the US code,
also in
the code of federal
regulations, Volume 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state a product or
service must be
exchanged for money received.

Every five dollar bill that he received contained a little note that
read,
"Please add me to your
mailing list". This simple note made the letter legal because he was
exchanging a service (adding the
purchaser's name to his mailing list) for a five dollar fee.

Here is the letter that the 15-year-old was sending out by E-mail, you
can
do the exact same thing
he was doing, simply by following the instructions in this letter.

* * * * *
Here are instructions on how to make $10,000 US cash in the next 2
weeks:

There are 3 addresses listed below.

Send the person at the top of the list a $5 bill wrapped in 2 pieces of
paper (to securely hide it),
along with a note that says: "Please add me to your mailing list".

Then delete that name, move the other 2 up and put your name at the
bottom.

Now start sending this ENTIRE e-mail back out to people.

When 20 people receive it, those 20 people will move your name up to the

middle position and
they will each send out 20. That totals 400 people that will receive
this
letter with your name in the
middle.

Then, those 400 people will move your name up to the top and they will
each
send out 20 E-mails.
That totals 8,000 people that will receive this E-mail with your name at
the
top and they will each
send you a $5 bill.

8,000 people each sending you a $5 bill = $40,000 cash. That's if
everyone
responds to this
E-mail, but not everyone will, so you can expect more realistically to
receive about $10,000 in cash
($5 bills) in your mailbox.

This will work for anyone, anywhere in the world in any country, but
send
only a US CASH $5 bill.


The more E-mails you send out, the more cash you will receive. If each
person sends out 100
E-mails, there will be 1,000,000 people that receive this letter when
your
name reaches the top. If
only 1% of those people respond, you will still get $50,000 cash.

* * * * *

Here is the list:


1. Robert Todino
    8 albert street,
    woburn, MA 01801

2. Karin Johnson
    19 Murray St.
    Burlington, VT 05401

3.Tom Johnson
     91-1048 B Hoomaka St.
     Ewa Beach, Hi. 96706

* * * * *

THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO DO. When your name reaches the top in a few
days,
you will
start receiving $5 bills from other people just like yourself, who are
willing to invest a $5 bill to
receive $10,000 cash.

If you don't try it - you will never know.




****************
77093

--- In new_distillers@egroups.com, Tom Johnson <tjohnson@s...> wrote:
> It Works, Its Legal, Its Easy, so Why Not?
>
> Parents of 15-year-old find $71,000 cash hidden in his closet.
>
> Does this headline look familiar? Of course it does.
>

The message above has been let through to show 'all' members the sort
of posting that is not welcome in this discussion group.  Surely the
name tells everyone what it is about ie distilling.  It is extremely
important for the survival of this and any group that postings adhere
to the subject.  Other groups have been destroyed by this sort of
behaviour and I as moderator will not let that happen here.
If members wanted to read this type of message I am sure there are
other groups that cater for it.

As the early members will remember to begin with this group was
moderated and I vetted all messages before sending on.  I took this
function off because I thought that the members at that time were
acting responsibly and 'playing the game'.  I do not want to impose
moderation on this group again, but that is always an option.
Let me make it plain  off subject messages are not welcome here and
in future the poster can be deleted off the group.  This is a genuine
warning to all.
Isnt it a shame that a few spoil it for the rest.

Young Des
topkiwi
moderator

I am an American and was wondering if there are any other excuses for
having a still other than for fuel and puyfing water.

Burbon, scotch, Hash oil (did I just say that?)

dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Whiz Kid" <slick@...>
To: <new_distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 6:15 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] Excuses


> I am an American and was wondering if there are any other excuses for
> having a still other than for fuel and puyfing water.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CLICK HERE AND START SAVING ON LONG DISTANCE BILLS TODAY!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4125/4/_/834209/_/962784953/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>
>

You could use it to produce essential oils for aroma therapy or massage or
for medicinal purposes.

Young Des


At 09:53 AM 5/07/00 -0000, you wrote:
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Host your next egroup meeting live on Firetalk.
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>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
>      1. Excuses
>           From: "Whiz Kid" <slick@...>
>      2. Re: Excuses
>           From: "David Ferguson" <slimf@...>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
>   Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 08:15:45 -0000
>   From: "Whiz Kid" <slick@...>
>Subject: Excuses
>
>I am an American and was wondering if there are any other excuses for
>having a still other than for fuel and puyfing water.
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
>   Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 19:56:49 +1000
>   From: "David Ferguson" <slimf@...>
>Subject: Re: Excuses
>
>Burbon, scotch, Hash oil (did I just say that?)
>
>dave
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Whiz Kid" <slick@...>
>To: <new_distillers@egroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 6:15 PM
>Subject: [new_distillers] Excuses
>
>
>> I am an American and was wondering if there are any other excuses for
>> having a still other than for fuel and puyfing water.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> CLICK HERE AND START SAVING ON LONG DISTANCE BILLS TODAY!
>> http://click.egroups.com/1/4125/4/_/834209/_/962784953/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>

I was wondering how to get mostly methanol out of my fermentation as
i would like to use it to make bio-diesel for my G.E.E.T. fuel
processor.
Whiz Kid

fermentation produces primarily ethanol. to make methanol, you might try
destructive distillation of wood. geet? good luck. I expect you will get
better power and emissions with a regular diesel.

there is a quick mention of methanol production on
http://www.webconx.com/sawdust_ethanol.htm  ,
http://www.c-f-c.com/specgas_products/methanol.htm , and
http://www.nsc.org/ehc/ew/chems/methanol.htm



--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
sspence@...
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--

----- Original Message -----
From: "Whiz Kid" <slick@...>
To: <new_distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 9:38 PM
Subject: [new_distillers] Methanol


> I was wondering how to get mostly methanol out of my fermentation as
> i would like to use it to make bio-diesel for my G.E.E.T. fuel
> processor.
> Whiz Kid
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>
>
>

> I am an American and was wondering if there are any other excuses for
> having a still other than for fuel and puyfing water.

Yup, makin' alcohol ............... the best reason :):):)

Ross

Des & newbies,

Would it be of value to collate a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for the
NEW-DISTILLERS newsgroup, and post this say monthly ?

If so, what sort of questions/answers should it have ?

I'm thinking along the lines of ....

Is distilling hard to do ?
Is it legal ?
Will it make me blind ?
Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and fractionating
column ?
How do I get or make a still ?
How do i make a whisky / rum / vodka ?
Should i use sugar or grains ?
Can I use fruit wine ?
How do i get rid of that "off-taste" ?
How do i measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
How do i flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
What web resources are there ?

Not too much on any of these (gees - this is how I first intended my site -
but it kept growing), maybe just a simple/clear paragraph on each, but a
bit of a starting point before heading into the advanced stuff & the
regular DISTILLERS news group. Deliberately avoid too much detail on
building stills & all the combinations thereof because this is where it can
get confusing, but just touch on the basics.

Any comments ?

Tony
http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller

Tony,

Excellent idea for the FAQ.  It would save many, many questions for us
newbies and allow us to get going a lot sooner.

Mel

see http://www.webconx.com/ethanol.htm

send email to sspence@... with "subscribe energy" in the subject, to
receive the renewable energy newsletter.

> LONG ISLAND, New York, July 7, 2000 (ENS) - The U.S. Environmental
> Protection Agency (EPA) plans to fund two $1 million pilot projects, one
> each in New York and California, to assist with the cleanup of the
gasoline
> additive MTBE in contaminated community water supplies. Areas of Long
> Island, New York, and Santa Monica, California, are among those
communities
> most affected by MTBE contamination. "To protect public health and the
> environment, the Clinton-Gore Administration has called on Congress to
> eliminate MTBE from gasoline, and we've begun regulatory action aimed at
> phasing it out," said EPA Administrator Carol Browner. "However, in the
> meantime, action must be taken to help communities already affected by
MTBE
> leaks. Today, we are providing additional funding to help New York and
> California remove MTBE contamination in affected communities and prevent
> future problems from leaking tanks."
>
> New York is being awarded $1 million to accelerate cleanup at 50 MTBE
> contaminated sites on Long Island. The funds for Santa Monica will be used
> to help the state and the city with the cleanup of MTBE contaminated
> groundwater. MTBE, or methyl tertiary butyl ether, is a gasoline additive
> used by many fuel refiners to meet a provision of the Clean Air Act that
> calls for the use of oxygenates in fuels. The additive helps fuel burn
more
> completely, resulting in less air pollution from tailpipe emissions. Last
> year, a panel convened by the White House presented scientific proof
> confirming that MTBE threatens drinking water supplies. The Administration
> then called on Congress to phase down or eliminate MTBE. The
Administration
> also has begun regulatory action to control MTBE under the Toxics
Substances
> Control Act.  http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jul2000/2000L-07-07-09.html
>
>
> * * *
> --
> Steve Spence
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
> Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
> X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
> sspence@...
> (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> If we don't believe in freedom of speech
> for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
> --
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5533/5/_/837408/_/963057027/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> biofuel-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>

Yes Tony, I totally agree this is be a great idea but I'm afraid I do not
have all the time required to do the job myself.
Maybe if we start a series of emails to the group on the subject of answers
to
thec questions you have posted below.
I would definately suport the idea and assist where possible.

Those of usw with websites could put a link to the FAQ as well.

Thank you for a good idea.

Des.



___________________________________________________________________________
>
>There are 3 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
>      1. FAQ ?
>           From: Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@...>
>      2. Re: FAQ ?
>           From: "Mel Ambrose" <mambrose@...>
>      3. Finishing the spirit
>           From: "David Ferguson" <slimf@...>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
>   Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:29:28 +1200
>   From: Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@...>
>Subject: FAQ ?
>
>Des & newbies,
>
>Would it be of value to collate a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for the
>NEW-DISTILLERS newsgroup, and post this say monthly ?
>
>If so, what sort of questions/answers should it have ?
>
>I'm thinking along the lines of ....
>
>Is distilling hard to do ?
>Is it legal ?
>Will it make me blind ?
>Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and fractionating
>column ?
>How do I get or make a still ?
>How do i make a whisky / rum / vodka ?
>Should i use sugar or grains ?
>Can I use fruit wine ?
>How do i get rid of that "off-taste" ?
>How do i measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
>How do i flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
>What web resources are there ?
>
>Not too much on any of these (gees - this is how I first intended my site -
>but it kept growing), maybe just a simple/clear paragraph on each, but a
>bit of a starting point before heading into the advanced stuff & the
>regular DISTILLERS news group. Deliberately avoid too much detail on
>building stills & all the combinations thereof because this is where it can
>get confusing, but just touch on the basics.
>
>Any comments ?
>
>Tony
>http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________

To David Ferg. The cloudy nature is usually due to the presence of
proteins and
unfermented sugar, which will foam in the still. More common with
straight turbo
than turbo extra.A capfull of distilling conditioner in the still will
fix the problem.
If its more like a cotteny filiment, then it is most likely due to high
levels of calcium
in the water.
Your % for dripping are ok. The lower the % the more efficently the
carbon will work.
The drip rate is in part controlled by the amount of fine carbon that
settles on the filter
paper. I use small g clamps on hose on the outlet side of the filter to
finely control
the drip rate. I tried small plastic taps from micro irrigation systems,
but the alcohol
broke them down. The slower the drip rate, the better the alcohol. There
is a
dramatic improvement from one drip per second to one per 3. I use 1 per
5.
Hope this helps david. Have a look at
http://www.stillspirits.com/freqaqs.htm

Hi David
The reason for spirit flowing through a continuous filter too fast is
usualy that a little carbon has got under the bottom filter and is
allowing  alcohol to bypass it. Try taking the carbon out and cleaning
your tube completely and repacking it. The carbon also needs to be well
packed so that the filter can't "float up". Another possible reason for
the fast flow is that leaving the alcohol for 3 - 4 days causes it to
settle completely out, those filters are designed so that a little of
the fine High Activity carbon comes through and coats the bottom filter
slowing the flow of alcohol. This all supposes that you are using the
correct grades of carbon in your still that is the liquid High Activity
carbon and the granulated Finishing Carbon.
Regards
Ray

David Ferguson wrote:

> HI there I have used my Still Spirits Reflux still to distill 50L of
> wash. I have a bucket of the distiled spirit and I then tiped in two
> packets of the carbon stuff and left for 3 or 4 days. Now I am using
> the continus filter to filter it... But.. It is coming out slightly
> clowdy (white clowdy not black). This is my second batch. The first
> was perfect. Could the % have anything to do with it? My first batch
> was watered down to about 45% but this stuff is at about 53% Also the
> filter seems to drip faster this time than last? help! ThanksDavid
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>            [GO.com. Click to find what you're looking for]
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>

--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

Here's my stab at a Draft version of a NEW DISTILLERS FAQ.
Any comments, suggestions, additions, corrections, clarifications, etc
needed ?

************************************************************************
********************
1) Is distilling hard to do ?
2) Is it legal ?
3) Will it make me blind ?
4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
fractionating column ?
5) How do I get or make a still ?
6) How do i make a whisky / rum / vodka ?
7) Should i use sugar or grains ?
8) Can I use fruit wine ?
9) How do i get rid of that "off-taste" ?
10) How do i measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
11) How do i flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
12) What web resources are there ?
13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?

************************************************************************
********************

1) Is distilling hard to do ?

Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can
sucessfully distil.


2) Is it legal ?

Probably not.  It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries
turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with  punishment
ranging from fines to imprisonment or floggings.  This action against it is
usually the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more
generally due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through
excise taxes. So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the potential
legal ramifications.


3) Will it make me blind ?

Not if you're carefull.  This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore,
which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases.
  The concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic
nerve poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains
or fruits high in pectin.  This methanol comes off first from the still, so
it is easily segregated and discarded.  A simple rule of thumb for this is
to throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L / 5 gal mash used).
  Probably the greatest risk to your health during distilling is the risk of
fire - collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source.  So keep a fire
extinguisher nearby.


4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
fractionating column ?

A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off
the boiling mash.  This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity
(80-120 proof), with plenty of flavour in it.  If this distillate were put
through the pot still again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85%
purity, and lose a bit of its flavour.

A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by
having some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and
allowing some of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the
packing.  This "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and
increase the % purity.  The taller the packed column, and the more reflux
liquid, the purer the product will be.  The advantage of doing this is that
it will result in a clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for
mixing with flavours etc.

A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still.  It will
condense all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10
back down the column.  The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4
foot), and packed with a material high in surface area, but which takes up
little space (pot scrubbers are good for this).  It will result in an
alcohol 95%+ pure (the theoretical limit without using a vacuum is 95.6%),
  with no other tastes or impurities in it.


5) How do I get or make a still ?

If you're after a pot still, these are generally home made using what-ever
you have at hand - say copper tubing and old water heaters or pressure
cookers.  Reflux stills can be made from plans on the net, or bought from
several manufacturers.  For reflux stil plans see Stillmakers :
http://stillmaker.dreamhost.com/  (free!) or Gert Strands :
http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm (US$5), or for a fractionating
column see Nixon & Stones : http://www.gin-vodka.com/ (US$8).  See the list
of "web resources" below for links to sites selling ready-made stills.


6) How do I make a whisky / vodka / rum ?

Whiskey : Heat 4 kg cracked or crushed malt with 18 L of water to 63-65C,
and hold there for 1-1.5 hours. Heat to 73-75C, then strain off and keep
liquid, using 250 mL of hot water to rinse the grains. Cool to below 30C
(should have an initial specific gravity of 1.050). Add hydrated yeast &
leave to ferment (maintain at 26C) until airlock stops bubbling and final
SG of around 1.010. Let settle for a day, then syphon carefully into a pot
still.  Discard the first 50 mL's, collect the next 2-3L of distillate or
until you start noticing the tails coming through.
Vodka : dissolve 5 kg of sugar & 60g of nutrients in 20L of water, cool to
below 30C and add hydrated yeast.  Leave to ferment at 25C until below an
SG of around 0.990, then settle for a day.  Syphon into a reflux or
fractionating still, and collect as per usual.
Rum :  as per vodka, but use some brown sugar or mollasses, to give an
initial specific gravity (SG) of around 1.06 - 1.07.  Run through either a
pot still, or a not-so-great reflux still.


7) Should I use sugar or grains ?

It depends on what sort of still you have, and what you are trying to make.
  If you have a reflux or fractionating still, only use whatever is cheapest
(usually sugar), as the refluxing will strip out all the flavours anyhow.
  If you have a pot still, and are after a bourban or whiskey, then you need
to go the grain route, or mollasses if after a rum.  If you are trying to
make a neutral spirit for flavouring, go for sugar.


8) Can I use fruit wine ?

Sure, if you have it available.  Again, using a pot still will result in a
brandy/grappa/schnapps, whereas a reflux still will just strip it down to
neutral spirit.


9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ?

That "rough moonshine edge" or "off-taste / wet cardboard smell" is due to
impurities such as the higher order alcohols, known as cogeners or fusel
oils. These will be present more when using a pot still, less if using a
reflux still, and just about absent if using a fractionating column.  So
one way is to use a taller packed column and increase the amount of reflux
occuring.  They can also indicate that you've tried to collect too much of
the alcohol, and have run into the "tails"; so finish collecting a little
bit earlier next time.  Soaking tainted alcohol with activated carbon for a
week (or even months) will help remove some of this flavour - this is known
as "polishing" the spirit.


10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ?

You need a hydrometer.  This is a wee float, with a scale inside it.  The
more alcohol that is present, the lighter the density of the liquid, so the
hydrometer sinks a bit lower.  You then just read off the scale how much
alcohol is present.  You need a seperate hydrometer for measuring the
density of the mash, as this is generally > 1.0, whereas the spirit is <
1.0, and they can't accurately do both ends of the scale.


11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?

There are now many commercial flavourings available, which turn vodka into
pretty decent gin or whiskey, or all manor of liqueurs.  See the commercial
sites, like Des Zines  http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi or Ray Toms
http://moonshine.co.nz/  for details.Or you can soak it with oak chips and
make whiskey, or soak fruits in it to make your own liqueurs.


12) What web resources are there ?

For more details, see :
Tony Ackland's  http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
Aaron Smiths's  http://www.go.to/distillation
Steve Spence's  http://www.webconx.com/ethanol.htm


13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?

Both the NEW DISTILLERS and the DISTILLERS news groups are available via
Egroups, at http://www.egroups.com . NEW DISTILLERS is, as the name
suggests, intended for those of you new to distilling and after simple,
straight-forward discussions, whereas the DISTILLERS group is a bit more
advanced, throwing in bits of design philosophy,  theory, and alternative
ways of achieving the results.  Both tend to overlap to some extent.

Hi there everyone

Thanks for all your help.. I have figured out that it was the wrong grade
carbon in the filter.. I was using a rocky type carbon where as before the
carbon was like tiny bits of lead from a pacer pencil! I put the later type
of carbon back into the filter and it is now working perfectly.

Thanks
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Toms" <ray@...>
To: <new_distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Finishing the spirit


> Hi David
> The reason for spirit flowing through a continuous filter too fast is
> usualy that a little carbon has got under the bottom filter and is
> allowing  alcohol to bypass it. Try taking the carbon out and cleaning
> your tube completely and repacking it. The carbon also needs to be well
> packed so that the filter can't "float up". Another possible reason for
> the fast flow is that leaving the alcohol for 3 - 4 days causes it to
> settle completely out, those filters are designed so that a little of
> the fine High Activity carbon comes through and coats the bottom filter
> slowing the flow of alcohol. This all supposes that you are using the
> correct grades of carbon in your still that is the liquid High Activity
> carbon and the granulated Finishing Carbon.
> Regards
> Ray
>
> David Ferguson wrote:
>
> > HI there I have used my Still Spirits Reflux still to distill 50L of
> > wash. I have a bucket of the distiled spirit and I then tiped in two
> > packets of the carbon stuff and left for 3 or 4 days. Now I am using
> > the continus filter to filter it... But.. It is coming out slightly
> > clowdy (white clowdy not black). This is my second batch. The first
> > was perfect. Could the % have anything to do with it? My first batch
> > was watered down to about 45% but this stuff is at about 53% Also the
> > filter seems to drip faster this time than last? help! ThanksDavid
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >            [GO.com. Click to find what you're looking for]
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
> http://moonshine.co.nz
> Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
> Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Find long lost high school friends:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5535/4/_/834209/_/963188245/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>
>

very nice. might I add, that in the USA, you can get a "small fuel producer"
permit. this allows small scale distilling for "motor fuel" purposes. a nice
advantage is that they don't require denaturing for "fuel" used on the
premises. the regulations are posted on my ethanol page.

http://www.webconx.com/ethanol%20usa%20regs.htm

--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
sspence@...
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony & Elle Ackland" <Tony.Ackland@...>
To: <new_distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 3:11 AM
Subject: [new_distillers] First draft of an FAQ


>
> Here's my stab at a Draft version of a NEW DISTILLERS FAQ.
> Any comments, suggestions, additions, corrections, clarifications, etc
> needed ?
>
> ************************************************************************
> ********************
> 1) Is distilling hard to do ?
> 2) Is it legal ?
> 3) Will it make me blind ?
> 4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
> fractionating column ?
> 5) How do I get or make a still ?
> 6) How do i make a whisky / rum / vodka ?
> 7) Should i use sugar or grains ?
> 8) Can I use fruit wine ?
> 9) How do i get rid of that "off-taste" ?
> 10) How do i measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
> 11) How do i flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
> 12) What web resources are there ?
> 13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
>
> ************************************************************************
> ********************
>
> 1) Is distilling hard to do ?
>
> Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can
> sucessfully distil.
>
>
> 2) Is it legal ?
>
> Probably not.  It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European
countries
> turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with  punishment
> ranging from fines to imprisonment or floggings.  This action against it
is
> usually the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more
> generally due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through
> excise taxes. So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the
potential
> legal ramifications.
>
>
> 3) Will it make me blind ?
>
> Not if you're carefull.  This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore,
> which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases.
> The concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic
> nerve poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains
> or fruits high in pectin.  This methanol comes off first from the still,
so
> it is easily segregated and discarded.  A simple rule of thumb for this is
> to throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L / 5 gal mash used).
> Probably the greatest risk to your health during distilling is the risk of
> fire - collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source.  So keep a fire
> extinguisher nearby.
>
>
> 4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
> fractionating column ?
>
> A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come
off
> the boiling mash.  This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity
> (80-120 proof), with plenty of flavour in it.  If this distillate were put
> through the pot still again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85%
> purity, and lose a bit of its flavour.
>
> A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by
> having some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and
> allowing some of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the
> packing.  This "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and
> increase the % purity.  The taller the packed column, and the more reflux
> liquid, the purer the product will be.  The advantage of doing this is
that
> it will result in a clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for
> mixing with flavours etc.
>
> A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still.  It will
> condense all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10
> back down the column.  The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4
> foot), and packed with a material high in surface area, but which takes up
> little space (pot scrubbers are good for this).  It will result in an
> alcohol 95%+ pure (the theoretical limit without using a vacuum is 95.6%),
> with no other tastes or impurities in it.
>
>
> 5) How do I get or make a still ?
>
> If you're after a pot still, these are generally home made using what-ever
> you have at hand - say copper tubing and old water heaters or pressure
> cookers.  Reflux stills can be made from plans on the net, or bought from
> several manufacturers.  For reflux stil plans see Stillmakers :
> http://stillmaker.dreamhost.com/  (free!) or Gert Strands :
> http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm (US$5), or for a fractionating
> column see Nixon & Stones : http://www.gin-vodka.com/ (US$8).  See the
list
> of "web resources" below for links to sites selling ready-made stills.
>
>
> 6) How do I make a whisky / vodka / rum ?
>
> Whiskey : Heat 4 kg cracked or crushed malt with 18 L of water to 63-65C,
> and hold there for 1-1.5 hours. Heat to 73-75C, then strain off and keep
> liquid, using 250 mL of hot water to rinse the grains. Cool to below 30C
> (should have an initial specific gravity of 1.050). Add hydrated yeast &
> leave to ferment (maintain at 26C) until airlock stops bubbling and final
> SG of around 1.010. Let settle for a day, then syphon carefully into a pot
> still.  Discard the first 50 mL's, collect the next 2-3L of distillate or
> until you start noticing the tails coming through.
> Vodka : dissolve 5 kg of sugar & 60g of nutrients in 20L of water, cool to
> below 30C and add hydrated yeast.  Leave to ferment at 25C until below an
> SG of around 0.990, then settle for a day.  Syphon into a reflux or
> fractionating still, and collect as per usual.
> Rum :  as per vodka, but use some brown sugar or mollasses, to give an
> initial specific gravity (SG) of around 1.06 - 1.07.  Run through either a
> pot still, or a not-so-great reflux still.
>
>
> 7) Should I use sugar or grains ?
>
> It depends on what sort of still you have, and what you are trying to
make.
> If you have a reflux or fractionating still, only use whatever is cheapest
> (usually sugar), as the refluxing will strip out all the flavours anyhow.
> If you have a pot still, and are after a bourban or whiskey, then you need
> to go the grain route, or mollasses if after a rum.  If you are trying to
> make a neutral spirit for flavouring, go for sugar.
>
>
> 8) Can I use fruit wine ?
>
> Sure, if you have it available.  Again, using a pot still will result in a
> brandy/grappa/schnapps, whereas a reflux still will just strip it down to
> neutral spirit.
>
>
> 9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ?
>
> That "rough moonshine edge" or "off-taste / wet cardboard smell" is due to
> impurities such as the higher order alcohols, known as cogeners or fusel
> oils. These will be present more when using a pot still, less if using a
> reflux still, and just about absent if using a fractionating column.  So
> one way is to use a taller packed column and increase the amount of reflux
> occuring.  They can also indicate that you've tried to collect too much of
> the alcohol, and have run into the "tails"; so finish collecting a little
> bit earlier next time.  Soaking tainted alcohol with activated carbon for
a
> week (or even months) will help remove some of this flavour - this is
known
> as "polishing" the spirit.
>
>
> 10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
>
> You need a hydrometer.  This is a wee float, with a scale inside it.  The
> more alcohol that is present, the lighter the density of the liquid, so
the
> hydrometer sinks a bit lower.  You then just read off the scale how much
> alcohol is present.  You need a seperate hydrometer for measuring the
> density of the mash, as this is generally > 1.0, whereas the spirit is <
> 1.0, and they can't accurately do both ends of the scale.
>
>
> 11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
>
> There are now many commercial flavourings available, which turn vodka into
> pretty decent gin or whiskey, or all manor of liqueurs.  See the
commercial
> sites, like Des Zines  http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi or Ray Toms
> http://moonshine.co.nz/  for details.Or you can soak it with oak chips and
> make whiskey, or soak fruits in it to make your own liqueurs.
>
>
> 12) What web resources are there ?
>
> For more details, see :
> Tony Ackland's  http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
> Aaron Smiths's  http://www.go.to/distillation
> Steve Spence's  http://www.webconx.com/ethanol.htm
>
>
> 13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
>
> Both the NEW DISTILLERS and the DISTILLERS news groups are available via
> Egroups, at http://www.egroups.com . NEW DISTILLERS is, as the name
> suggests, intended for those of you new to distilling and after simple,
> straight-forward discussions, whereas the DISTILLERS group is a bit more
> advanced, throwing in bits of design philosophy,  theory, and alternative
> ways of achieving the results.  Both tend to overlap to some extent.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>
>
>

Hi Tony
Like your first draft of the FAQ. Good accurate information. Just one
suggestion as this is an international list I would avoid reference to Proof
which is different in the US and the UK and other parts of the world, alcohol
by volume is the international standard, and also gallons which are different
also Litres are safer even if they are spelt differently in the US.
Regards
Ray

Tony & Elle Ackland wrote:

> Here's my stab at a Draft version of a NEW DISTILLERS FAQ.
> Any comments, suggestions, additions, corrections, clarifications, etc
> needed ?
>
> ************************************************************************
> ********************
> 1) Is distilling hard to do ?
> 2) Is it legal ?
> 3) Will it make me blind ?
> 4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
> fractionating column ?
> 5) How do I get or make a still ?
> 6) How do i make a whisky / rum / vodka ?
> 7) Should i use sugar or grains ?
> 8) Can I use fruit wine ?
> 9) How do i get rid of that "off-taste" ?
> 10) How do i measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
> 11) How do i flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
> 12) What web resources are there ?
> 13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
>
> ************************************************************************
> ********************
>
> 1) Is distilling hard to do ?
>
> Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can
> sucessfully distil.
>
> 2) Is it legal ?
>
> Probably not.  It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries
> turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with  punishment
> ranging from fines to imprisonment or floggings.  This action against it is
> usually the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more
> generally due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through
> excise taxes. So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the potential
> legal ramifications.
>
> 3) Will it make me blind ?
>
> Not if you're carefull.  This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore,
> which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases.
>  The concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic
> nerve poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains
> or fruits high in pectin.  This methanol comes off first from the still, so
> it is easily segregated and discarded.  A simple rule of thumb for this is
> to throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L / 5 gal mash used).
>  Probably the greatest risk to your health during distilling is the risk of
> fire - collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source.  So keep a fire
> extinguisher nearby.
>
> 4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
> fractionating column ?
>
> A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off
> the boiling mash.  This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity
> (80-120 proof), with plenty of flavour in it.  If this distillate were put
> through the pot still again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85%
> purity, and lose a bit of its flavour.
>
> A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by
> having some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and
> allowing some of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the
> packing.  This "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and
> increase the % purity.  The taller the packed column, and the more reflux
> liquid, the purer the product will be.  The advantage of doing this is that
> it will result in a clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for
> mixing with flavours etc.
>
> A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still.  It will
> condense all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10
> back down the column.  The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4
> foot), and packed with a material high in surface area, but which takes up
> little space (pot scrubbers are good for this).  It will result in an
> alcohol 95%+ pure (the theoretical limit without using a vacuum is 95.6%),
>  with no other tastes or impurities in it.
>
> 5) How do I get or make a still ?
>
> If you're after a pot still, these are generally home made using what-ever
> you have at hand - say copper tubing and old water heaters or pressure
> cookers.  Reflux stills can be made from plans on the net, or bought from
> several manufacturers.  For reflux stil plans see Stillmakers :
> http://stillmaker.dreamhost.com/  (free!) or Gert Strands :
> http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm (US$5), or for a fractionating
> column see Nixon & Stones : http://www.gin-vodka.com/ (US$8).  See the list
> of "web resources" below for links to sites selling ready-made stills.
>
> 6) How do I make a whisky / vodka / rum ?
>
> Whiskey : Heat 4 kg cracked or crushed malt with 18 L of water to 63-65C,
> and hold there for 1-1.5 hours. Heat to 73-75C, then strain off and keep
> liquid, using 250 mL of hot water to rinse the grains. Cool to below 30C
> (should have an initial specific gravity of 1.050). Add hydrated yeast &
> leave to ferment (maintain at 26C) until airlock stops bubbling and final
> SG of around 1.010. Let settle for a day, then syphon carefully into a pot
> still.  Discard the first 50 mL's, collect the next 2-3L of distillate or
> until you start noticing the tails coming through.
> Vodka : dissolve 5 kg of sugar & 60g of nutrients in 20L of water, cool to
> below 30C and add hydrated yeast.  Leave to ferment at 25C until below an
> SG of around 0.990, then settle for a day.  Syphon into a reflux or
> fractionating still, and collect as per usual.
> Rum :  as per vodka, but use some brown sugar or mollasses, to give an
> initial specific gravity (SG) of around 1.06 - 1.07.  Run through either a
> pot still, or a not-so-great reflux still.
>
> 7) Should I use sugar or grains ?
>
> It depends on what sort of still you have, and what you are trying to make.
>  If you have a reflux or fractionating still, only use whatever is cheapest
> (usually sugar), as the refluxing will strip out all the flavours anyhow.
>  If you have a pot still, and are after a bourban or whiskey, then you need
> to go the grain route, or mollasses if after a rum.  If you are trying to
> make a neutral spirit for flavouring, go for sugar.
>
> 8) Can I use fruit wine ?
>
> Sure, if you have it available.  Again, using a pot still will result in a
> brandy/grappa/schnapps, whereas a reflux still will just strip it down to
> neutral spirit.
>
> 9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ?
>
> That "rough moonshine edge" or "off-taste / wet cardboard smell" is due to
> impurities such as the higher order alcohols, known as cogeners or fusel
> oils. These will be present more when using a pot still, less if using a
> reflux still, and just about absent if using a fractionating column.  So
> one way is to use a taller packed column and increase the amount of reflux
> occuring.  They can also indicate that you've tried to collect too much of
> the alcohol, and have run into the "tails"; so finish collecting a little
> bit earlier next time.  Soaking tainted alcohol with activated carbon for a
> week (or even months) will help remove some of this flavour - this is known
> as "polishing" the spirit.
>
> 10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
>
> You need a hydrometer.  This is a wee float, with a scale inside it.  The
> more alcohol that is present, the lighter the density of the liquid, so the
> hydrometer sinks a bit lower.  You then just read off the scale how much
> alcohol is present.  You need a seperate hydrometer for measuring the
> density of the mash, as this is generally > 1.0, whereas the spirit is <
> 1.0, and they can't accurately do both ends of the scale.
>
> 11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
>
> There are now many commercial flavourings available, which turn vodka into
> pretty decent gin or whiskey, or all manor of liqueurs.  See the commercial
> sites, like Des Zines  http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi or Ray Toms
> http://moonshine.co.nz/  for details.Or you can soak it with oak chips and
> make whiskey, or soak fruits in it to make your own liqueurs.
>
> 12) What web resources are there ?
>
> For more details, see :
> Tony Ackland's  http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
> Aaron Smiths's  http://www.go.to/distillation
> Steve Spence's  http://www.webconx.com/ethanol.htm
>
> 13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
>
> Both the NEW DISTILLERS and the DISTILLERS news groups are available via
> Egroups, at http://www.egroups.com . NEW DISTILLERS is, as the name
> suggests, intended for those of you new to distilling and after simple,
> straight-forward discussions, whereas the DISTILLERS group is a bit more
> advanced, throwing in bits of design philosophy,  theory, and alternative
> ways of achieving the results.  Both tend to overlap to some extent.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Find long lost high school friends:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5535/4/_/834209/_/963212953/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

Tony

exelent info.

I think most would assume gallons are u.s..  Or you could state u.s. or
imperial gallons.

chris noyes

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@...>
To: 'new_distillers@egroups.com' <new_distillers@egroups.com>
Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:09 AM
Subject: [new_distillers] First draft of an FAQ


>
>Here's my stab at a Draft version of a NEW DISTILLERS FAQ.
>Any comments, suggestions, additions, corrections, clarifications, etc
>needed ?
>
>************************************************************************
>********************
>1) Is distilling hard to do ?
>2) Is it legal ?
>3) Will it make me blind ?
>4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
>fractionating column ?
>5) How do I get or make a still ?
>6) How do i make a whisky / rum / vodka ?
>7) Should i use sugar or grains ?
>8) Can I use fruit wine ?
>9) How do i get rid of that "off-taste" ?
>10) How do i measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
>11) How do i flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
>12) What web resources are there ?
>13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
>
>************************************************************************
>********************
>
>1) Is distilling hard to do ?
>
>Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can
>sucessfully distil.
>
>
>2) Is it legal ?
>
>Probably not.  It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries
>turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with  punishment
>ranging from fines to imprisonment or floggings.  This action against it is
>usually the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more
>generally due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through
>excise taxes. So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the potential
>legal ramifications.
>
>
>3) Will it make me blind ?
>
>Not if you're carefull.  This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore,
>which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases.
> The concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic
>nerve poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains
>or fruits high in pectin.  This methanol comes off first from the still, so
>it is easily segregated and discarded.  A simple rule of thumb for this is
>to throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L / 5 gal mash used).
> Probably the greatest risk to your health during distilling is the risk of
>fire - collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source.  So keep a fire
>extinguisher nearby.
>
>
>4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
>fractionating column ?
>
>A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off
>the boiling mash.  This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity
>(80-120 proof), with plenty of flavour in it.  If this distillate were put
>through the pot still again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85%
>purity, and lose a bit of its flavour.
>
>A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by
>having some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and
>allowing some of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the
>packing.  This "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and
>increase the % purity.  The taller the packed column, and the more reflux
>liquid, the purer the product will be.  The advantage of doing this is that
>it will result in a clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for
>mixing with flavours etc.
>
>A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still.  It will
>condense all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10
>back down the column.  The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4
>foot), and packed with a material high in surface area, but which takes up
>little space (pot scrubbers are good for this).  It will result in an
>alcohol 95%+ pure (the theoretical limit without using a vacuum is 95.6%),
> with no other tastes or impurities in it.
>
>
>5) How do I get or make a still ?
>
>If you're after a pot still, these are generally home made using what-ever
>you have at hand - say copper tubing and old water heaters or pressure
>cookers.  Reflux stills can be made from plans on the net, or bought from
>several manufacturers.  For reflux stil plans see Stillmakers :
>http://stillmaker.dreamhost.com/  (free!) or Gert Strands :
>http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm (US$5), or for a fractionating
>column see Nixon & Stones : http://www.gin-vodka.com/ (US$8).  See the list
>of "web resources" below for links to sites selling ready-made stills.
>
>
>6) How do I make a whisky / vodka / rum ?
>
>Whiskey : Heat 4 kg cracked or crushed malt with 18 L of water to 63-65C,
>and hold there for 1-1.5 hours. Heat to 73-75C, then strain off and keep
>liquid, using 250 mL of hot water to rinse the grains. Cool to below 30C
>(should have an initial specific gravity of 1.050). Add hydrated yeast &
>leave to ferment (maintain at 26C) until airlock stops bubbling and final
>SG of around 1.010. Let settle for a day, then syphon carefully into a pot
>still.  Discard the first 50 mL's, collect the next 2-3L of distillate or
>until you start noticing the tails coming through.
>Vodka : dissolve 5 kg of sugar & 60g of nutrients in 20L of water, cool to
>below 30C and add hydrated yeast.  Leave to ferment at 25C until below an
>SG of around 0.990, then settle for a day.  Syphon into a reflux or
>fractionating still, and collect as per usual.
>Rum :  as per vodka, but use some brown sugar or mollasses, to give an
>initial specific gravity (SG) of around 1.06 - 1.07.  Run through either a
>pot still, or a not-so-great reflux still.
>
>
>7) Should I use sugar or grains ?
>
>It depends on what sort of still you have, and what you are trying to make.
> If you have a reflux or fractionating still, only use whatever is cheapest
>(usually sugar), as the refluxing will strip out all the flavours anyhow.
> If you have a pot still, and are after a bourban or whiskey, then you need
>to go the grain route, or mollasses if after a rum.  If you are trying to
>make a neutral spirit for flavouring, go for sugar.
>
>
>8) Can I use fruit wine ?
>
>Sure, if you have it available.  Again, using a pot still will result in a
>brandy/grappa/schnapps, whereas a reflux still will just strip it down to
>neutral spirit.
>
>
>9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ?
>
>That "rough moonshine edge" or "off-taste / wet cardboard smell" is due to
>impurities such as the higher order alcohols, known as cogeners or fusel
>oils. These will be present more when using a pot still, less if using a
>reflux still, and just about absent if using a fractionating column.  So
>one way is to use a taller packed column and increase the amount of reflux
>occuring.  They can also indicate that you've tried to collect too much of
>the alcohol, and have run into the "tails"; so finish collecting a little
>bit earlier next time.  Soaking tainted alcohol with activated carbon for a
>week (or even months) will help remove some of this flavour - this is known
>as "polishing" the spirit.
>
>
>10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
>
>You need a hydrometer.  This is a wee float, with a scale inside it.  The
>more alcohol that is present, the lighter the density of the liquid, so the
>hydrometer sinks a bit lower.  You then just read off the scale how much
>alcohol is present.  You need a seperate hydrometer for measuring the
>density of the mash, as this is generally > 1.0, whereas the spirit is <
>1.0, and they can't accurately do both ends of the scale.
>
>
>11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
>
>There are now many commercial flavourings available, which turn vodka into
>pretty decent gin or whiskey, or all manor of liqueurs.  See the commercial
>sites, like Des Zines  http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi or Ray Toms
>http://moonshine.co.nz/  for details.Or you can soak it with oak chips and
>make whiskey, or soak fruits in it to make your own liqueurs.
>
>
>12) What web resources are there ?
>
>For more details, see :
>Tony Ackland's  http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
>Aaron Smiths's  http://www.go.to/distillation
>Steve Spence's  http://www.webconx.com/ethanol.htm
>
>
>13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
>
>Both the NEW DISTILLERS and the DISTILLERS news groups are available via
>Egroups, at http://www.egroups.com . NEW DISTILLERS is, as the name
>suggests, intended for those of you new to distilling and after simple,
>straight-forward discussions, whereas the DISTILLERS group is a bit more
>advanced, throwing in bits of design philosophy,  theory, and alternative
>ways of achieving the results.  Both tend to overlap to some extent.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Find long lost high school friends:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/5535/4/_/834209/_/963212953/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>
>

I just joined and skimmed through the postings.  I'm glad I only work
with this stuff in theory,  I saw postings 103-104 (wow!!), viruses
(and their source) can be tracked by (I think) cooperation between
the online companies, the phone companies and law enforcement
agents.  It's probably not likely that people posting on this site
would be targeted by cops unless they start talking about running off
2000 gallon mash batches, turning it into cheap gin (with flavoring
essences- homemade or otherwise) and then hauling it to a large city
for sale to kids, felons, and anyone with cash.  The easiest way is
to just do it in your mind (then get a high paying job to buy all the
imported vodka and 30year old scotch that you want.)  and stick to
brewing beer and wine in the real world.
At any rate, my first question for this group is this:  would a one
quart canning jar, half filled with mash, be a large enough thumper
for a 5 gallon still?  I can't find any calculation pages for this,
anyone ever try it?  By the way, we havn't had a high school shooting
for at least a couple of months now (I think Columbine high was the
last one, actually)- crime is down because unemployment is down.

--- In new_distillers@egroups.com, Stevensgang@w... wrote:
> Tony! I was looking for some copper to build the whole still with. I
> just thought if I was going to do it I may as well go all out. And
make
> a family  heirloom. All those pics you've been showing have got me
fired
> up to build something nice! I can find some places up here to buy
sheet
> copper from but I just ain't priced any yet! I just thought maybe
you
> had an idea on price. No biggie. As far as patterns go i guess the
sky
> is the limit. But I'll make sure to incorporate some kind of a goose
> neck it sounds kinda important for the reflux factor. Though I am
> strictly interested in a pot-still. Can I actually braze with a
lttle
> propane torch or is that strictly for soldering? I'm trying to find
an
> old elec. or gas stove to set up out in the garage as my heat
source. My
> present heat soure is an elec. hot plate  it does O.K. sorta. it
takes a
> long time to run off a little bit. Well thanks for taking the time
to
> listen to my thoughts and for all the help you've give me
Trying to
> run a bead somewhere in the U.S.      See ya!!!!

---I looked into a large chain store that sells a few pieces of sheet
metal.  Be ready for an unpleasant suprise when you price the copper
sheeting.  a 2'by 4' piece of copper costs about $25US on the west
coast.  Your "family heirloom" may quickly turn into the "family
fortune"  If you can find a scrap metal dealer, he will have it
cheaper.  If you can find an old hot water heater (an antique) you
might be in luck, some older models were made up of a copper boiler
with a sheet metal covering.  If you can get one, you will have a
ready made boiler once you remove the covering.  Good luck!

this is a bit strange, a micro still!

see the x86 still at http://www.webconx.com/ethanol.htm


--
Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
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sspence@...
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--

Me MAcHO DoNKeY WREstler MaN, DonKey, DonKEY.
BugGRIT, BUggREM, buGGerAll, I toLd HiM, I ToLD HiM, THAt'S ThE WROng
End, I Tol' HiM!! Ha!  DONATE YOUR bOdIES To SCienCE You FOoLs!
MiLlENIum HanD aNd ShrImP!!!
BuGgEr ThiS For A GAmE oF SolDieRS!

I just saw posting #156 under my email account.  I was showing a guy
at the brewing store your e-group, and I didn't realize he was
watching my hands as I logged on.  I am at this moment in the brew
store and I just checked the postings after the guy left a while
ago.  Please rest assured I would never post something like that, and
after I get off from work and "talk" with that gentleman (and if he
can still use his fingers when I'm through), he won't either.  Once
again I ask your forgiveness, for it was not me that posted that, but
it was my lack of security concern that caused it, and I would like
to thank Tony for bringing it to my attention by e-mailing me.

By the way, what are "meths" anyway?

>By the way, what are "meths" anyway?

Methylated spirits (denatured alcohol), usually fairly high in methanol (eg
the foreshots from your distilling run). Only drank when desperate & in need
of a fix, regardless of the risk of bodily harm.  Common symptons of "meths"
drinkers are 1) sitting in bus/tram shelters and cursing all passerbys 2)a
slow divorce from reality.  Soon leads to ranting emails.

Tony

Thank you for the apology.
Please impress on your friend that their actions put you in danger of
being unsubscribed from this discussion group.  I notice you have
only recently joined but will have seen my last posting on the
subject of spam/chain letters etc.  This also falls into the same
catagorie.
I had already received a number of complaints about this posting and
due to the apology will not be taking the matter further at this time.

Regards

Young Des
moderator.







--- In new_distillers@egroups.com, ups474@a... wrote:
> I just saw posting #156 under my email account.  I was showing a
guy
> at the brewing store your e-group, and I didn't realize he was
> watching my hands as I logged on.  I am at this moment in the brew
> store and I just checked the postings after the guy left a while
> ago.  Please rest assured I would never post something like that,
and
> after I get off from work and "talk" with that gentleman (and if he
> can still use his fingers when I'm through), he won't either.  Once
> again I ask your forgiveness, for it was not me that posted that,
but
> it was my lack of security concern that caused it, and I would like
> to thank Tony for bringing it to my attention by e-mailing me.
>
> By the way, what are "meths" anyway?

Very good work Tony and the suggestions Im sure are welcome, its
comming along well.  Maybe a reference to the various measurements
used in distilling may be helpful as well.  As has been pointed out
in previous postings confusion reigns where measurements are
concerned.

Young Des






--- In new_distillers@egroups.com, "Christopher Noyes" <cnoyes@o...>
wrote:
> Tony
>
> exelent info.
>
> I think most would assume gallons are u.s..  Or you could state
u.s. or
> imperial gallons.
>
> chris noyes
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@c...>
> To: 'new_distillers@egroups.com' <new_distillers@egroups.com>
> Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:09 AM
> Subject: [new_distillers] First draft of an FAQ
>
>
> >
> >Here's my stab at a Draft version of a NEW DISTILLERS FAQ.
> >Any comments, suggestions, additions, corrections, clarifications,
etc
> >needed ?
> >
>
>*********************************************************************
***
> >********************