It has been pointed out to me that there is a striking similarity between

Tolkien's monogram, and a character in the Chinese and Japanese alphebets.  Here

is a sample:  http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/.



Does anyone know whether Tolkien ever demonstrated any knowledge of or interest

in oriental languages, or specifically in oriental calligraphy?  I know that (as

Wayne and Christina say), he had from a very early age "an abiding interest in

alphabets and scripts" but I've never heard that that interest extended to

oriental languages.  But my knowledge is woefully inadequate in this area.  The

similarity is probably just a coincidence, but it piqued my interest

nonetheless.  If anyone has any thoughts or information on the subject I'd be

interested in hearing more.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Doug Kane wrote:



>It has been pointed out to me that there is a striking similarity between

>Tolkien's monogram, and a character in the Chinese and Japanese alphebets.

>Here is a sample:

><http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/.>http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/.

>

>Does anyone know whether Tolkien ever demonstrated any knowledge of or

>interest in oriental languages, or specifically in oriental calligraphy? I

>know that (as Wayne and Christina say), he had from a very early age "an

>abiding interest in alphabets and scripts" but I've never heard that that

>interest extended to oriental languages. But my knowledge is woefully

>inadequate in this area. The similarity is probably just a coincidence,

>but it piqued my interest nonetheless. If anyone has any thoughts or

>information on the subject I'd be interested in hearing more.



It's almost certainly a coincidence. Although Tolkien had an early liking

for Japanese prints, we've recorded no interest in or study of Chinese or

Japanese (see the essay "Languages" in The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and

Guide: Reader's Guide). Nor was it necessary: the idea of intertwining

letters to form monograms (or ciphers) has a long history in the West, and

Tolkien developed his now-familiar JRRT monogram after trying out a series

of simpler versions.



Wayne & Christina





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Wayne and Christina!



   _____



From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Wayne G. Hammond

Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:35 PM

To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien and Oriental Calligraphy







Doug Kane wrote:



>It has been pointed out to me that there is a striking similarity between

>Tolkien's monogram, and a character in the Chinese and Japanese alphebets.

>Here is a sample:

><http://www.mahou. <http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/.>

org/Kanji/422B/.>http://www.mahou. <http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/.>

org/Kanji/422B/.

>

>Does anyone know whether Tolkien ever demonstrated any knowledge of or

>interest in oriental languages, or specifically in oriental calligraphy? I

>know that (as Wayne and Christina say), he had from a very early age "an

>abiding interest in alphabets and scripts" but I've never heard that that

>interest extended to oriental languages. But my knowledge is woefully

>inadequate in this area. The similarity is probably just a coincidence,

>but it piqued my interest nonetheless. If anyone has any thoughts or

>information on the subject I'd be interested in hearing more.



It's almost certainly a coincidence. Although Tolkien had an early liking

for Japanese prints, we've recorded no interest in or study of Chinese or

Japanese (see the essay "Languages" in The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and

Guide: Reader's Guide). Nor was it necessary: the idea of intertwining

letters to form monograms (or ciphers) has a long history in the West, and

Tolkien developed his now-familiar JRRT monogram after trying out a series

of simpler versions.



Wayne & Christina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, Tolkien's monogram reminds me very distantly of the signature symbols

used by Aubrey Beardsley http://www.wormfood.com/savoy/salome/154.html (I know

there are more examples but that's the best I found in a quick search online)

and James Whistler

http://www.mr-whistlers-art.info/art/design/exhibitions/signature.shtml -

perhaps the influence was indirectly Oriental through these and similar artists?

Or perhaps it went back to Albrecht Durer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AlbrechtD%C3%BCrer01.jpg ? Do we know if

Tolkien had any appreciation of Beardsley?  I looked in Wayne and Christina's

book on Tolkien's art but the closest mention is a discussion of Tolkien's

comments on surrealism in art in OFS.



Janet





From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Wayne G. Hammond

Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:35 PM

To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien and Oriental Calligraphy





Doug Kane wrote:



>It has been pointed out to me that there is a striking similarity between

>Tolkien's monogram, and a character in the Chinese and Japanese alphebets.

>Here is a sample:

><http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/.<http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/>>http://www\

.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/.<http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/422B/>

>

>Does anyone know whether Tolkien ever demonstrated any knowledge of or

>interest in oriental languages, or specifically in oriental calligraphy? I

>know that (as Wayne and Christina say), he had from a very early age "an

>abiding interest in alphabets and scripts" but I've never heard that that

>interest extended to oriental languages. But my knowledge is woefully

>inadequate in this area. The similarity is probably just a coincidence,

>but it piqued my interest nonetheless. If anyone has any thoughts or

>information on the subject I'd be interested in hearing more.



It's almost certainly a coincidence. Although Tolkien had an early liking

for Japanese prints, we've recorded no interest in or study of Chinese or

Japanese (see the essay "Languages" in The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and

Guide: Reader's Guide). Nor was it necessary: the idea of intertwining

letters to form monograms (or ciphers) has a long history in the West, and

Tolkien developed his now-familiar JRRT monogram after trying out a series

of simpler versions.



Wayne & Christina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Janet wrote:



>Actually, Tolkien's monogram reminds me very distantly of the signature

>symbols used by Aubrey Beardsley

><http://www.wormfood.com/savoy/salome/154.html>http://www.wormfood.com/savoy/sa\

lome/154.html

>(I know there are more examples but that's the best I found in a quick

>search online) and James Whistler

><http://www.mr-whistlers-art.info/art/design/exhibitions/signature.shtml>http:/\

/www.mr-whistlers-art.info/art/design/exhibitions/signature.shtml

>- perhaps the influence was indirectly Oriental through these and similar

>artists? Or perhaps it went back to Albrecht Durer

><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AlbrechtD%C3%BCrer01.jpg>http://en.wikipedia\

.org/wiki/File:AlbrechtD%C3%BCrer01.jpg

>? Do we know if Tolkien had any appreciation of Beardsley? I looked in

>Wayne and Christina's book on Tolkien's art but the closest mention is a

>discussion of Tolkien's comments on surrealism in art in OFS.



I doubt that there was any Oriental influence on the monogram, direct or

indirect. Tolkien's is unlike Beardsley's or Whistler's devices, but in the

same long tradition as Durer's (if more elaborate). There's a small section

on monograms in Edward Johnston's _Writing and Illuminating, and

Lettering_, a book Tolkien owned.



We've not recorded that Tolkien had any appreciation of Beardsley's work,

but one never knows.



Wayne





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks - I'm going to go take a look at it out of curiosity.  Now the monogram I

developed for myself back in high school is quite definitely inspired by

Tolkien's, no questions about it...



Janet





...



There's a small section

on monograms in Edward Johnston's _Writing and Illuminating, and

Lettering_, a book Tolkien owned.



...



Wayne



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]