David LeVine wrote:
> Stan Stocker wrote:
>
>> Cold Fusion works for the true believer also, at least once in a while.
>>
>
> Were you referring to the web programming language or the power
> generating system?  Both fit all the descriptions above.
>
>
Hi David,

Very nice...  Given Adobes pricing structures, I'd imagine they're about
equal in cost and goofy press releases also :-)

Cheers,
Stan

Pat Delany wrote:
> An easy wood/metal lathe, drill and milling machine for rural areas of
developing countries.
>
> Remove all the insides of a engine block except the crank and 1 rod.
Might I suggest that a "one-lung" B&S, Techmseh, etc. engine might be a
good choice here?  Even a four-banger can be hard to turn until oil
starts to "fly" the crank.  Some one-lung engines either have roller or
ball bearings or less friction during operation (or both!)

--
David G. LeVine
Nashua, NH  03060

Pat Delany wrote:
>
>
> A very good idea David, I keep changing things every few minutes so I
> deleted the original posts until I get my ideas firmer. Your idea
> could work on a lot of things!
>
> I was about to write you and ask about your idea for generating flat
> surfaces. I stored my copy somewhere safe but forgor where. Do you
> still have it somewhere?
>
> Pat

Probably, but not offhand.

Generatty, take 3 somewhat flat surfaces (A, B, and C)  Put A face up
and grind B until there is no gap.  Put B face up and grind C against it
until there are no gaps.  Repeat with C face up and A.

Basically, the AB, BC, CA, AB pattern is done until there is no
grinding, then you have 3 flats..

--
David G. LeVine
Nashua, NH  03060

Hi everyone, I;m getting stuff together for my multimachine and I am having
trouble sourcing the 4" od pipe.  Seems that almost no one carries 3.5" pipe
anymore. Any suggestions?

Great with me. Just take a lot of pics for us.

Pat

--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Chris M <chrism3667@...> wrote:
>
> I'm interested in building one of these. If anyone else wants to (and
apologies to the moderator), drop me a line or respond (as long as the mod
doesn't mind) on the list. We could even get a side discussion going (again if
the mod doesn't object). It's what the doctor ordered it would seem if you want
an actual bench lathe. I think it would be fun. Carry on  otherwise maties!
>

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of an overhead block with ways
instead of a piece of pipe. The idea of an overhead center rest and tail stock
combined with the movable slide seems like a great combination. Sorta like this
http://www.lathes.co.uk/metalmaster/

It will really have to be anchored well or it will be a killer!

Pat

  --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "wh33l3r18" <caudill@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone, I;m getting stuff together for my multimachine and I am having
trouble sourcing the 4" od pipe.  Seems that almost no one carries 3.5" pipe
anymore. Any suggestions?
>

you've always been a gentleman Pat.

Now others just need to share the interest :)

In all reality, it would probably cost the better part of 200$ to build one,
since I'd be using precision ground steel for the ways and slides. Might be able
to get by w/CRS for the support pieces. Maybe less considerably, I don't know.

*sits and waits*

--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:

> From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
> Subject: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig style
lathe?
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:13 PM
> Great with me. Just take a lot of
> pics for us.
>
> Pat
>
> --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com,
> Chris M <chrism3667@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm interested in building one of these. If anyone
> else wants to (and apologies to the moderator), drop me a
> line or respond (as long as the mod doesn't mind) on the
> list. We could even get a side discussion going (again if
> the mod doesn't object). It's what the doctor ordered it
> would seem if you want an actual bench lathe. I think it
> would be fun. Carry on  otherwise maties!
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:multimachine-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

wh33l3r18 wrote:
> Hi everyone, I;m getting stuff together for my multimachine and I am having
trouble sourcing the 4" od pipe.  Seems that almost no one carries 3.5" pipe
anymore. Any suggestions?
Discount Steel
<http://www.discountsteel.com/index.cfm/go/main.itemDisplay/itemID/44.htm>
has it as 4" DOM tubing with a 1/4" wall or thicker (if you wish.)

Other vendors will have the same stuff.

--
David G. LeVine
Nashua, NH  03060

----- Original Message -----

From: wh33l3r18

To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 4:26 PM

Subject: [multimachine] overarm pipe source

 

Hi everyone, I;m getting stuff together for my multimachine and I am having trouble sourcing the 4" od pipe. Seems that almost no one carries 3.5" pipe anymore. Any suggestions?

David,

As I interpret Pat's proposal, the only parasitic drag component remaining will
from be the crankshaft journal bearings.  The secondary mechanical resistance
and the compression resistance are entirely removed.  Are you certain that the
remaining drag will be significant enough to skew the engine choice towards
engines that will likely be of more limited availability in the third world?  I
tried to find some reference that isolated journal bearing drag, at least in
theory, but could not. It appears that the weight of a typical crankshaft is ~60
lbs. (Chevy small block) so inertial resistance should not be too difficult to
overcome. Assuming that the driven load is significantly less than the typical
HP rating of the engine block used, it is likely possible to use a much lighter
weight oil, and/or adjust journal clearances (possibly to values that would be
destructive in a running engine) either of which could reduce the remaining
drag.

--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, David LeVine <dlevine144@...> wrote:
> > Remove all the insides of a engine block except the crank and 1 rod.
> Might I suggest that a "one-lung" B&S, Techmseh, etc. engine might be a
> good choice here?  Even a four-banger can be hard to turn until oil
> starts to "fly" the crank.  Some one-lung engines either have roller or
> ball bearings or less friction during operation (or both!)
>
> --
> David G. LeVine
> Nashua, NH  03060
>

----- Original Message -----

From: keith gutshall

To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:30 AM

Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig style lathe?

 

Hello Chris M  Building a lathe is not a inexpenive as you may think.  A good 6in chuck is about $100  A 1/2 HP motor is $125+ for them.    The 8 in 2 groove pulley I got was $75  for it. It is on the spindle.    A piece of ground stock 1/2x4x36 can be as high as $200+ for it.    I have invested $750-800 in the machine I am building, and have not started to  build the ways and carriage yet. I got the 6 cylinder block for $0.    Cold rolled steel is good for ways for the price of it. I am going to useit  for the ways on the machine I am building.    Keith G Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Chris M <chrism3667@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Chris M <chrism3667@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig style lathe? To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 8:30 PM   you've always been a gentleman Pat. Now others just need to share the interest :) In all reality, it would probably cost the better part of 200$ to build one, since I'd be using precision ground steel for the ways and slides. Might be able to get by w/CRS for the support pieces. Maybe less considerably, I don't know. *sits and waits* --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com> wrote: > From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com> > Subject: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig style lathe? > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:13 PM > Great with me. Just take a lot of > pics for us. > > Pat > > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, > Chris M <chrism3667@ ...> wrote: > > > > I'm interested in building one of these. If anyone > else wants to (and apologies to the moderator), drop me a > line or respond (as long as the mod doesn't mind) on the > list. We could even get a side discussion going (again if > the mod doesn't object). It's what the doctor ordered it > would seem if you want an actual bench lathe. I think it > would be fun. Carry on otherwise maties! > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:multimachine- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > >

aaadams@... wrote:
> David,
>
> As I interpret Pat's proposal, the only parasitic drag component remaining
will from be the crankshaft journal bearings.  The secondary mechanical
resistance and the compression resistance are entirely removed.  Are you certain
that the remaining drag will be significant enough to skew the engine choice
towards engines that will likely be of more limited availability in the third
world?  I tried to find some reference that isolated journal bearing drag, at
least in theory, but could not. It appears that the weight of a typical
crankshaft is ~60 lbs. (Chevy small block) so inertial resistance should not be
too difficult to overcome. Assuming that the driven load is significantly less
than the typical HP rating of the engine block used, it is likely possible to
use a much lighter weight oil, and/or adjust journal clearances (possibly to
values that would be destructive in a running engine) either of which could
reduce the remaining drag.

Have you ever felt the drag on dry crank bearings?  Even with pressure
lubrication, a slightly warped crank can eat 1 BHP easily, you can't
provide that much energy.

For an idea about loads, take a block, crank and bearings and try it.
Without pressure fed lubrication, you will be surprised!

Anyone here build engines?  Will you discuss how tight just the crank
and bearings can be...

--
David G. LeVine
Nashua, NH  03060

Bruce Bellows wrote:
> Hi Chris
>
> I think the first step in building a lathe is probably the cheapest
> and that's defining what you want your lathe to do and be for you. If
> you just want to make round objects it can be cheap and easy, if you
> want to make highly precise round objects the cost can go up
> accordingly. As an example a standard class tapered roller bearing
> with a 4" bore can be bought for approx. $60.00 The same bearing as a
> precision class 3, which is most common in a standard lathe, goes for
> about $400.00

A point to ponder:

If you buy $120.00 worth of utility grade bearings and ruin them, will
you be more or less unhappy than if you do it with $800 worth of bearings?

I personally would live with the $120 standard class bearings until I
was sure of fit and shielding, then put in the $800 class 3 bearings
once I was sure I wouldn't damage things.

But your choice may be different because your skills are different from
mine...

--
David G. LeVine
Nashua, NH  03060

The more I think of it the Britannia no doubt had bushings and not ball bearings
along with the rough cast gears.

Pat

http://www.lathes.co.uk/britannia/page7.html--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com,
Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
>
> I was thinking about using only the used  bearing inserts and only on the end
main journals. I would oil it by plugging all the unused oil holes then feeding
oil through the top of the block. Compare this drag with a Britania treadle
triple geared lathe that used as cast gears to get down to a few rpm.
>
> You are right, expert engine builders needed!
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: David LeVine <dlevine144@...>
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 12:19:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: New treadle lathe idea reposted
>
>
> aaadams@rocketmail. com wrote:
> > David,
> >
> > As I interpret Pat's proposal, the only parasitic drag component remaining
will from be the crankshaft journal bearings.  The secondary mechanical
resistance and the compression resistance are entirely removed.  Are you certain
that the remaining drag will be significant enough to skew the engine choice
towards engines that will likely be of more limited availability in the third
world?  I tried to find some reference that isolated journal bearing drag, at
least in theory, but could not. It appears that the weight of a typical
crankshaft is ~60 lbs. (Chevy small block) so inertial resistance should not be
too difficult to overcome. Assuming that the driven load is significantly less
than the typical HP rating of the engine block used, it is likely possible to
use a much lighter weight oil, and/or adjust journal clearances (possibly to
values that would be destructive in a running engine) either of which could
reduce the remaining drag.
>
> Have you ever felt the drag on dry crank bearings?  Even with pressure
> lubrication, a slightly warped crank can eat 1 BHP easily, you can't
> provide that much energy.
>
> For an idea about loads, take a block, crank and bearings and try it.
> Without pressure fed lubrication, you will be surprised!
>
> Anyone here build engines?  Will you discuss how tight just the crank
> and bearings can be...
>
> --
> David G. LeVine
> Nashua, NH  03060
>

> I personally would live with the $120 standard class
> bearings until I
> was sure of fit and shielding, then put in the $800 class 3
> bearings
> once I was sure I wouldn't damage things.

absolutely. And it's a question of whether or not higher grade bearings will
match the rest of the homemade contraption LOL. Building a basic lathe doesn't
have to be rocket science. But there are a number *tuning* issues if  you will
that might be very hard to implement if you're basically throwing stuff together
anyway. Using steel doesn't insure the utmost in accuracy from the getgo.

Chris,

Romig's articles were written in the early 1920s.  That's why the turret lathe
picture shows an overhead lineshaft.  Few machine tools had their own electric
motors in those days.

>Basically the idea of a Romig lathe (and I was thinking around  24" long) is to
avoid castings.<

"[Arrangements have been made to supply the necessary castings for this lathe,
at a low figure, to any who are interested. This magazine has no financial or
other interest in this, beyond that of service to the reader. The name and
address of the maker will he furnished, upon request, by the Shop Notes
Department, Popular Mechanics Magazine, 6 N. Michigan Ave., Chicago.—Editor.]"

That notice leads my copy of the Romig turret lathe article.

His concrete bed turret lathe and concrete bed horizontal mill are the best
remembered.  He not only advocated "hand scraping" but using castings.  In those
days small foundries with iron melting cupolas were very common.  Most counties
had at least one.  A common practice was you'd make up your own patterns and
take them to the foundry to be sand cast.  If you read much in the Popular
Science & Popular Mechanics archives at Google Books you might notice this. 
Many authors' articles from before the late 1950s assume ready availability of a
local foundry to do simple castings from patterns you make.

Romig also called for some outside machine shop work:

"it will be necessary, however, to have certain things, such as the machining of
the headstock and the cutting of the feed screw, done in a machine shop, but
this is a small item."

Shop rates were a bit lower in those days.  And the numbers of machinists and
their average skill level was higher.



--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Chris M <chrism3667@...> wrote:
>
> you can't rely on everything ready made if you're going to build a lathe.
Basically the idea of a Romig lathe (and I was thinking around  24" long) is to
avoid castings. But it might not be a bad idea to either cast a pulley for
instance, or make the pattern and have someone cast it for you. Not usually too
much money if done in aluminum (yeah cast iron would be better). The sort of
things that would need to be discussed. If there was sufficient interest.
>  The ground stock would cost well under 100$ I'm guessing. The issue is though
is it really ideal for that sort of application. Remember the Romig article
advocated scraping. Not a bad skill at  all to learn, but time consuming.
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote:
>
> From: keith gutshall <drpshops@...>
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 12:30 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Chris M
>  Building a lathe is not a inexpenive as you may think.
>  A good 6in chuck is about $100
>  A 1/2 HP motor is $125+ for them.
>  
>  The 8 in 2 groove pulley I got was $75  for it. It is on the spindle.
>  
>  A piece of ground stock 1/2x4x36 can be as high as $200+ for it.
>  
>  I have invested $750-800 in the machine I am building, and have not started
to
>  build the ways and carriage yet. I got the 6 cylinder block for $0.
>  
>  Cold rolled steel is good for ways for the price of it. I am going to useit
>  for the ways on the machine I am building.
>  
>  Keith G
>
> Deep Run Portage
> Back Shop
> " The Lizard Works"
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Chris M <chrism3667@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Chris M <chrism3667@...>
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 8:30 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
> you've always been a gentleman Pat.
>
> Now others just need to share the interest :)
>
> In all reality, it would probably cost the better part of 200$ to build one,
since I'd be using precision ground steel for the ways and slides. Might be able
to get by w/CRS for the support pieces. Maybe less considerably, I don't know.
>
> *sits and waits*
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:13 PM
> > Great with me. Just take a lot of
> > pics for us.
> >
> > Pat
> >
> > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com,
> > Chris M <chrism3667@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm interested in building one of these. If anyone
> > else wants to (and apologies to the moderator), drop me a
> > line or respond (as long as the mod doesn't mind) on the
> > list. We could even get a side discussion going (again if
> > the mod doesn't object). It's what the doctor ordered it
> > would seem if you want an
>  actual bench lathe. I think it
> > would be fun. Carry on otherwise maties!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> > mailto:multimachine- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
> >
> >
> >
>

Chris,

>>I'd build a Gingery style lathe, but it's a bit light.<<

No law (yet) says you can't heavy the design up.  Use 3/8" or 1/2" CRS instead
of 1/4" thick.  Have a piece of ASTM A-500 steel tube milled flat on two sides
for the bed.  Pics were just published in the Gingery Group of a "Gingery lathe"
with 3/8" CRS ways and milled steel tube bed.  And redesigned carriage.  Very
nice looking device.

Or get a drop of 8020 t-slot aluminum extrusion and handscrape that.  It's a lot
stronger and flatter than starting from a Gingery bed casting.

To me the "Gingery style" is more about a set of detailed accessible and low
cost building techniques rather than a specific design.  A full bore Gingery
build is sorta like climbing Mount Everest for some folks.

Mark




--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Chris M <chrism3667@...> wrote:
>
> Bruce, this is mainly a fun exercise. I'd build a Gingery style lathe, but
it's a bit light. Roller bearings are cheap enough (4" bore??!! Icarumba! I'd be
too happy if I could push a 1" shaft through the spindle).
>  Anyway, I started a yahoo group probably 3 years ago for this and other
purposes (the idea has got my goat a longer time ago then that). In deference to
our valiant leader, I won't advertise it here, not that it would detract from
this discussion one bit (no messages posted in months). I'm sure you'll agree,
the idea of building a lathe, or a blasted vertical mill, is too tantalizing.
There have been a number of ideas floating around out there for, well centuries
basically. The Romig design is compact. I had the opportunity to bring home a
drop dead gorgeous lathe a number of years ago, 18" swing IIRC, for free.
Fumbled that one. So nothing against larger lathes. There's just a special place
in my heart for smaller units.
>  Oh by the way, I already own about 18 lathes in various states of
completeness. It's not that I NEED to build one, but as I said, I find the idea
of doing so fascinating.
>  What would I do with it? Make chips LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. What did you think I
would want it fer?
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...> wrote:
>
> From: Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...>
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 1:04 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Chris
>  
> I think the first step in building a lathe is probably the
> cheapest and that's defining what you want your lathe to do and be for you. If
> you just want to make round objects it can be cheap and easy, if you want to
> make highly precise round objects the cost can go up accordingly. As an
> example a standard class tapered roller bearing with a 4" bore can be bought
for
> approx. $60.00 The same bearing as a precision class 3, which is most common
in
> a standard lathe, goes for about $400.00 
>  
> So first decide what you want your lathe to be for
> you.
> There are a multitude of approaches you can take
>  
> Lathe Beds made from
> An engine block
> Cast Iron
> Cast Epoxy Granite
> EG filled rect steel tube
> Aluminium
>  
> Ways
> Linear guide rails
> Ground cast iron
> dovetailed tool steel
>  
> Hope this gives you a few ideas to ponder. Thinking it through
> first will save you a lot of money later.
>  
> Bruce
>  
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From:
>   keith
>   gutshall
>   To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
>
>   Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:30
>   AM
>   Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone
>   have a hankering to build a Romig style lathe?
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         Hello Chris M
>          Building a lathe is not a inexpenive as you may think.
>          A good 6in chuck is about $100
>          A 1/2 HP motor is $125+ for them.
>          
>          The 8 in 2 groove pulley I got was $75  for it. It is on
>         the spindle.
>          
>          A piece of ground stock 1/2x4x36 can be as high as $200+ for
>         it.
>          
>          I have invested $750-800 in the machine I am building, and
>         have not started to
>          build the ways and carriage yet. I got the 6 cylinder block
>         for $0.
>          
>          Cold rolled steel is good for ways for the price of it. I am
>         going to useit
>          for the ways on the machine I am building.
>          
>          Keith G
>
> Deep Run Portage
> Back Shop
> " The Lizard
>         Works"
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Chris M
>         <chrism3667@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
> From:
>           Chris M <chrism3667@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re:
>           [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig style
>           lathe?
> To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> Date:
>           Saturday, August 1, 2009, 8:30 PM
>
>
>            
>
>
> you've always been a gentleman Pat.
>
> Now others just
>           need to share the interest :)
>
> In all reality, it would probably
>           cost the better part of 200$ to build one, since I'd be using
>           precision ground steel for the ways and slides. Might be able to get
>           by w/CRS for the support pieces. Maybe less considerably, I don't
>           know.
>
> *sits and waits*
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pat Delany
>           <rigmatch@yahoo. com>
>           wrote:
>
> > From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo.
>           com>
> > Subject: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a
>           hankering to build a Romig style lathe?
> > To: multimachine@
>           yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:13
>           PM
> > Great with me. Just take a lot of
> > pics for
>           us.
> >
> > Pat
> >
> > --- In multimachine@
>           yahoogroups. com,
> > Chris M <chrism3667@ ...>
>           wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm interested in building one of
>           these. If anyone
> > else wants to (and apologies to the
>           moderator), drop me a
> > line or respond (as long as the mod
>           doesn't mind) on the
> > list. We could even get a side discussion
>           going (again if
> > the mod doesn't object). It's what the doctor
>           ordered it
> > would seem if you want an actual bench lathe. I
>           think it
> > would be fun. Carry on otherwise maties!
> >
>           >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------
>           --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups
>           Links
> >
> >
> > mailto:multimachine-
>           fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
> >
> >
> >
>

Thank you Louis for your great answer.
My son had the idea of cutting the width of the inserts by 2/3 to reduce
friction and then packing the extra space with grease. The caps could also be
drilled for grease fittings.

Pat

--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, louis richardson <louisrfnauto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
>
> on some engines a major source of drag is the rear oil seal,older motors had a
rope type seal that realy fit tight in order to seal.V8s had 5 main
bearings,leave the front & rear & the thrust bearing, then take out the other 2
bearings along with oil seal that should make it easyer to turn.you could use
the factory oiling system  hookup a small electric pump to circulate oil from
the bottom of factory oil pan,as leakage from bearings will be
considerable.stuff old lifters  back in to stop leakage from there.leakage will
also be from where you removed bearings. if hole is round brass or steel plugs
can be driven in holes. and stop leak.if crank is bent or warped crank can be
straightended,with press or sledge hammer.From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
> Subject: [multimachine] Re: New treadle lathe idea reposted
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 3:32 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> The more I think of it the Britannia no doubt had bushings and not ball
bearings along with the rough cast gears.
>
> Pat
>
> http://www.lathes. co.uk/britannia/ page7.html- -- In multimachine@
yahoogroups. com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@ .> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking about using only the used bearing inserts and only on the end
main journals. I would oil it by plugging all the unused oil holes then feeding
oil through the top of the block. Compare this drag with a Britania treadle
triple geared lathe that used as cast gears to get down to a few rpm.
> >
> > You are right, expert engine builders needed!
> >
> > Pat
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: David LeVine <dlevine144@ ...>
> > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 12:19:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: New treadle lathe idea reposted
> >
> >
> > aaadams@rocketmail. com wrote:
> > > David,
> > >
> > > As I interpret Pat's proposal, the only parasitic drag component remaining
will from be the crankshaft journal bearings. The secondary mechanical
resistance and the compression resistance are entirely removed. Are you certain
that the remaining drag will be significant enough to skew the engine choice
towards engines that will likely be of more limited availability in the third
world? I tried to find some reference that isolated journal bearing drag, at
least in theory, but could not. It appears that the weight of a typical
crankshaft is ~60 lbs. (Chevy small block) so inertial resistance should not be
too difficult to overcome. Assuming that the driven load is significantly less
than the typical HP rating of the engine block used, it is likely possible to
use a much lighter weight oil, and/or adjust journal clearances (possibly to
values that would be destructive in a running engine) either of which could
reduce the remaining drag.
> >
> > Have you ever felt the drag on dry crank bearings? Even with pressure
> > lubrication, a slightly warped crank can eat 1 BHP easily, you can't
> > provide that much energy.
> >
> > For an idea about loads, take a block, crank and bearings and try it.
> > Without pressure fed lubrication, you will be surprised!
> >
> > Anyone here build engines? Will you discuss how tight just the crank
> > and bearings can be...
> >
> > --
> > David G. LeVine
> > Nashua, NH 03060
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Pat Delany

To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:57 AM

Subject: [multimachine] Re: New treadle lathe idea reposted

 

Thank you Louis for your great answer.
My son had the idea of cutting the width of the inserts by 2/3 to reduce friction and then packing the extra space with grease. The caps could also be drilled for grease fittings.

Pat

--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, louis richardson <louisrfnauto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
>
> on some engines a major source of drag is the rear oil seal,older motors had a rope type seal that realy fit tight in order to seal.V8s had 5 main bearings,leave the front & rear & the thrust bearing, then take out the other 2 bearings along with oil seal that should make it easyer to turn.you could use the factory oiling system  hookup a small electric pump to circulate oil from the bottom of factory oil pan,as leakage from bearings will be considerable.stuff old lifters  back in to stop leakage from there.leakage will also be from where you removed bearings. if hole is round brass or steel plugs can be driven in holes. and stop leak.if crank is bent or warped crank can be straightended,with press or sledge hammer.From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
> Subject: [multimachine] Re: New treadle lathe idea reposted
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 3:32 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> The more I think of it the Britannia no doubt had bushings and not ball bearings along with the rough cast gears.
>
> Pat
>
> http://www.lathes. co.uk/britannia/ page7.html- -- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@ .> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking about using only the used bearing inserts and only on the end main journals. I would oil it by plugging all the unused oil holes then feeding oil through the top of the block. Compare this drag with a Britania treadle triple geared lathe that used as cast gears to get down to a few rpm.
> >
> > You are right, expert engine builders needed!
> >
> > Pat
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: David LeVine <dlevine144@ ...>
> > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 12:19:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: New treadle lathe idea reposted
> >
> >
> > aaadams@rocketmail. com wrote:
> > > David,
> > >
> > > As I interpret Pat's proposal, the only parasitic drag component remaining will from be the crankshaft journal bearings. The secondary mechanical resistance and the compression resistance are entirely removed. Are you certain that the remaining drag will be significant enough to skew the engine choice towards engines that will likely be of more limited availability in the third world? I tried to find some reference that isolated journal bearing drag, at least in theory, but could not. It appears that the weight of a typical crankshaft is ~60 lbs. (Chevy small block) so inertial resistance should not be too difficult to overcome. Assuming that the driven load is significantly less than the typical HP rating of the engine block used, it is likely possible to use a much lighter weight oil, and/or adjust journal clearances (possibly to values that would be destructive in a running engine) either of which could reduce the remaining drag.
> >
> > Have you ever felt the drag on dry crank bearings? Even with pressure
> > lubrication, a slightly warped crank can eat 1 BHP easily, you can't
> > provide that much energy.
> >
> > For an idea about loads, take a block, crank and bearings and try it.
> > Without pressure fed lubrication, you will be surprised!
> >
> > Anyone here build engines? Will you discuss how tight just the crank
> > and bearings can be...
> >
> > --
> > David G. LeVine
> > Nashua, NH 03060
> >
>

Keith,

>>It is just as easy to make a larger machine as to make a smaller one.<<

Part of this depends on the skill and experience level of the builder.  A
beginner is more likely to complete a smaller sized project.  This is probably
why Dave Gingery's series has been so durable over three decades.

Training the machinist is a bigger job than shaping the parts for a machine
tool.

Regards,

Mark

--- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Chris
>  It is just as easy to make a larger machine as to make a smaller one.
>  The machine will be more useful in the long run.
>  
> The two block lathe I am working on is about 60+ ins long.
> The ways are 10ins overall, and I split them in to two seperate ways
>  The spindle is a 2in pipe that is 2.375 OD with an 8in chuck on it.
>  
>  I have been adjusting on the machine to get it better.
>  
>  I was turning a 4 in part in it .
>  
>  Keith
>
> Deep Run Portage
> Back Shop
> " The Lizard Works"
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Chris M <chrism3667@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Chris M <chrism3667@...>
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 4:21 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bruce, this is mainly a fun exercise. I'd build a Gingery style lathe, but
it's a bit light. Roller bearings are cheap enough (4" bore??!! Icarumba! I'd be
too happy if I could push a 1" shaft through the spindle).
>  Anyway, I started a yahoo group probably 3 years ago for this and other
purposes (the idea has got my goat a longer time ago then that). In deference to
our valiant leader, I won't advertise it here, not that it would detract from
this discussion one bit (no messages posted in months). I'm sure you'll agree,
the idea of building a lathe, or a blasted vertical mill, is too tantalizing.
There have been a number of ideas floating around out there for, well centuries
basically. The Romig design is compact. I had the opportunity to bring home a
drop dead gorgeous lathe a number of years ago, 18" swing IIRC, for free.
Fumbled that one. So nothing against larger lathes. There's just a special place
in my heart for smaller units.
>  Oh by the way, I already own about 18 lathes in various states of
completeness. It's not that I NEED to build one, but as I said, I find the idea
of doing so fascinating.
>  What would I do with it? Make chips LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL . What did you think
I would want it fer?
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Bruce Bellows <bbellows@rogers. com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Bruce Bellows <bbellows@rogers. com>
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 1:04 PM
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Chris
>  
> I think the first step in building a lathe is probably the cheapest and that's
defining what you want your lathe to do and be for you. If you just want to make
round objects it can be cheap and easy, if you want to make highly precise
round objects the cost can go up accordingly. As an example a standard class
tapered roller bearing with a 4" bore can be bought for approx. $60.00 The same
bearing as a precision class 3, which is most common in a standard lathe, goes
for about $400.00 
>  
> So first decide what you want your lathe to be for you.
> There are a multitude of approaches you can take
>  
> Lathe Beds made from
> An engine block
> Cast Iron
> Cast Epoxy Granite
> EG filled rect steel tube
> Aluminium
>  
> Ways
> Linear guide rails
> Ground cast iron
> dovetailed tool steel
>  
> Hope this gives you a few ideas to ponder. Thinking it through first will save
you a lot of money later.
>  
> Bruce
>  
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: keith gutshall
> To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Chris M
>  Building a lathe is not a inexpenive as you may think.
>  A good 6in chuck is about $100
>  A 1/2 HP motor is $125+ for them.
>  
>  The 8 in 2 groove pulley I got was $75  for it. It is on the spindle.
>  
>  A piece of ground stock 1/2x4x36 can be as high as $200+ for it.
>  
>  I have invested $750-800 in the machine I am building, and have not started
to
>  build the ways and carriage yet. I got the 6 cylinder block for $0.
>  
>  Cold rolled steel is good for ways for the price of it. I am going to useit
>  for the ways on the machine I am building.
>  
>  Keith G
>
> Deep Run Portage
> Back Shop
> " The Lizard Works"
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Chris M <chrism3667@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Chris M <chrism3667@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 8:30 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
> you've always been a gentleman Pat.
>
> Now others just need to share the interest :)
>
> In all reality, it would probably cost the better part of 200$ to build one,
since I'd be using precision ground steel for the ways and slides. Might be able
to get by w/CRS for the support pieces. Maybe less considerably, I don't know.
>
> *sits and waits*
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: [multimachine] Re: OT:anyone have a hankering to build a Romig
style lathe?
> > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:13 PM
> > Great with me. Just take a lot of
> > pics for us.
> >
> > Pat
> >
> > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com,
> > Chris M <chrism3667@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm interested in building one of these. If anyone
> > else wants to (and apologies to the moderator), drop me a
> > line or respond (as long as the mod doesn't mind) on the
> > list. We could even get a side discussion going (again if
> > the mod doesn't object). It's what the doctor ordered it
> > would seem if you want an actual bench lathe. I think it
> > would be fun. Carry on otherwise maties!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> > mailto:multimachine- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
> >
> >
> >
>