In response to : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/4949

Dear Ms. Afsarunnesa,  

I presume you are a new member in this forum. I really appreciate your enquiries and healthy discussion with Ms. Bonna and Ms. Tasneem. Being a non-Muslim, I have several questions to you. I have read Quran for several times (sometimes with original Arabic) and I differ with your opinion that you expressed in the discussion with Bonna. It actually amazes me -  How could  a person  simply  deny the fact of cruelty against the womankind residing in holy Quran and consider it a word of god ?  Quran clearly demeans the womankind in many of it's holy verses. Please consider the following verses :

 1. Man has a degree over women.  Sura 2:228.  

2. Witness of 2 women equals that of 1 man. Sura 2:282.  

3. Inheritance of 2 women equals that of 1 man.  Sura 4.11-12. 

4. Men are stronger, righteous women are obedient. Sura 4:34.  

5. Women are asked to stay quietly in houses. 33:33.  etc.  

6. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women 4:34 etc.  

7. Women are a tilt for men (to cultivate). 2:223 etc.  

8. Men can marry more than one times. sura 2:3 etc.  

9. Men can beat their women (wives). 4: 34. etc. etc.  

Among the verses stated above, the worst is sura 2.282 (IMO). The inequality between men and women is crystal clear in matters of giving testimony or evidence or being a witness is enshrined in the Koran in this sura .

“But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember”.

 How do you  justify the above text, Ms. Afsarunnesa ? As par Islam the testimonies of two women is equal to one man.  It means, even though the woman is a University Professor or a Doctor, still she is considered less intelligent than an illiterate male!! Is it acceptable ?  The criterion here clearly is not intelligence but gender. 

So, what values religion teaches to its followers, Ms. Afsarunnesa? Haven't you found that Quran is very clear that men are a degree superior to women and that they are their protectors?  This undoubtedly conveys the idea that women are incapable to take care of themselves and they are dependent on men. This false image of women is further emphasized when the laws of the Sharia do not recognize women as intelligent enough to witness in a court. The reason perhaps given is that if one of them forgets, the other one can remind her. Isn't it ? But Is there any scientific study that demonstrates women are more forgetful than men? Absolutely not! All these stereotypes convey only one message to the subconscious of the man who believes those teachings are from God.

If you accept Quran as the book of God, you have to accept many irrational things. some  other muslim freethinkers have already done a great job showing such absurdities in their pages (http://www.faithfreedom.org)  here is the excerpt :

Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay them  (Q. 9:5), fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax (Q. 9: 29). Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tell clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q. 3: 85). It relegates those who disbelieve in Quran to hell  (Q.  5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q. 9: 28). It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (Q. 2: 193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (Q. 14: 17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that “they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter” (Q.5: 34). “As for the disbelievers”, it says that “for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods” (Q. 22: 9). Quran prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (Q. 9: 23), (Q. 3: 28). Quran asks the Muslims to “strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor (Q. 25: 52), be stern with them because they belong to hell (Q. 66: 9).  The holy Prophet demanded his follower to “strike off the heads of the disbelievers”; then after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives” (Q. 47: 4). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (Q. 4:34). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (Q.  66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (Q. 2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (Q. 4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the court (Q. 2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness.

How can you disregard cruelty resides in Holy Quran, Ms. Afsarunnesa ? 

You said, "One thing for sure, just the translation would lead you to misinterpret ....."

You know Ms. Afsarunnesa, It is a very clever strategy which has already been refuted many times in MM and NFB pages.  Apologists generally attempt to defend Quranic flaws by following ridiculous and incogitant arguments while they cannot refute  the cruelties and absurdities  residing in holy Quran, such as :   1)  They generally  blames the translation/ interpretation, 2) some apologists say that human being can not understand Allah’s Qudraat (glory), 3)    Quran has to be taken (when there is serious flaws) as Allegory/parable, 4)   Quranic verses (which has flaws) are only a poetry and not to be taken as real, or 5)   at least some apologists say it is "mission impossible", Or, 6)     sometimes  attack the messenger leaving messages by saying Mr. X or Y is not an intellectual (high quality enough) to comment on Holy Quran (for e.g.  you asked Ms. Bonna her age etc....which may indicate that she is not capable to perceive Allah's glory) —even though Allah repeatedly said: "I (Allah) made the Quran in simple Arabic so that ordinary Arabs can understand it."

I wish to clarify some valid points about misconception on "translation/mistranslation" of holy Quran.  

1) While we talk about the translation, we generally  take  Yusuf Ali, Pikthal, Shakir and Dawwod's translation as a reference who are accepted as world wide renowned  translators. No Muslim ever raised  voice to ban any particular translation  for their mis-interpretation of any verse.

2) Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Pickthall 's knowledge of Arabic was much better than average person. All of them had also a better knowledge of English than average, and we all know that Yusuf Ali and  Pickthall had better than average knowledge in English and Pickthall is also an English born person.

3)The believers  who propagate that all translation is not authentic   cannot be any more knowledgeable in Arabic than the respected translators like Dawood, Shakir, Pickthall, Yusuf Ali to challenge their translations as inaccurate.

4) Two translator may vary in linguistic skill in some aspects but  basic INFORMATION, FACT or an INJUNCTION remains accurate (Like "4" cannot change to "3", or "yes" cannot change to "no" etc.). It means, while Quran says that men have rights to "beat" women (sura nesa), the word beat will never be turned to "kiss" from original Arabic to translated english.

5) The translations of Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Pickthall agree with one another in respect to basic information, facts and injunction.

I hope you have understood my points clearly.

Regards.

Avijit