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The use of possessive apostrophes in place names in Birmingham on ro   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #13854 of 13905 |
The use of possessive apostrophes in place names in Birmingham on road signs



Birmingham City Council now has an emerging city wide view on the inclusion or
dropping of the possessive apostrophe in place names across the city. This
affects thousands of street names and district names like Kings Heath, Kings
Norton and Acocks Green.



Can I first of all thank all the residents who responded to my e-mail at the
start of January asking for opinions on whether or not Kings Heath, should be
spelt King's Heath or Kings Heath.



Some of the responses directed me to various websites which discussed the use of
possessive apostrophes in place names.



As a result, I asked the Highways Department to comment on this issue. The
department has consulted the "Gazetteer of British Place Names" and contacted
two primary organisations concerned with the use of plain language in England:
The Plain English Society and Plain Language Commission. From my perspective, I
have done my own research into the use of the possessive apostrophe in place
names.



As a result, the consensus of the City Council on the future use of possessive
apostrophes in place names is that they should not be re-introduced. This view
will, I know, upset a lot of residents, but if you bear with me, I'll explain
the logic behind the view.



Since all place names in Birmingham had their possessive apostrophe dropped in
the 1950s, places like Kings Heath, Acocks Green, Druids Heath, Kings Norton,
etc, will remain as such.



The reasoning and historical context is as follows:



The reasons for proposing not to re-introduce the possessive apostrophe are:



1) Consistency and avoiding confusion



2) Cost of reintroducing the possessive apostrophe



3) There is confusion as to whether the possessive apostrophe should be
included in place names





1) Consistency and avoiding confusion



Many English language countries have made a national decision to drop the
possessive apostrophe. The USA dropped theirs in 1890 and Australia in 2001.
Britain has never made such a decision, although it appears from Ordnance Survey
maps that the possessive apostrophe has almost completely disappeared since the
1950s. Indeed, if you look at old cast iron street name plates in Birmingham,
you will see the possessive apostrophe has been painted out. Good examples exist
at St. Marys Row (Moseley) and Wheelers Lane (Kings Heath).



Australia's reasoning for dropping the possessive apostrophe is very relevant,
since they argued that with the emergency services using computer databases
there was a need for nationwide consistency. It would be tragic if the ambulance
couldn't find your street, if you forgot to include the possessive apostrophe
when calling 999.



The "Gazetteer of British Place Names" shows that few place names in Britain
have the possessive apostrophe.







Both the Plain English Society and the Plain Language Commission have said that
there is no rule in Britain with regards to possessive apostrophes in place
names. They further add that if the name presently does not have the apostrophe,
then leave it that way.



2) Cost of re-introducing the possessive apostrophe



The cost of re-introducing the possessive apostrophe across Birmingham would be
enormous. There are probably thousands of roads that once had the apostrophe and
would now argue for its re-introduction. Changing all the road name plates and
highway direction sign would be astronomical.



3) There is confusion as to whether the possessive apostrophe should be included
in place names

Kings Heath, along with Kings Norton, was at the time of the Doomsday book part
of the district of Bromsgrove. Bromsgrove at that time was owned by the
monarchy.
By 1564, the monarchy sold Bromsgrove, but retained ownership of parts of the
district - namely Kings Norton and Kings Heath. Kings Norton remained in the
ownership of the monarchy until 1803. I don't have a date for when the monarchy
sold off Kings Heath, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 1803.



Prior to 1803, it can be argued that it was grammatically correct to include the
possessive apostrophe in the Kings Heath and Kings Norton name, since the
monarchy owned the places.



Since the monarchy no longer own either Kings Heath or Kings Norton it is argued
that it is no longer grammatically correct to include the possessive apostrophe.



There is no national guidance on whether place names should have the possessive
apostrophe or not.





Martin Mullaney
(0121) 689 4372

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:18 pm

martin_mullaney
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Message #13854 of 13905 |
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The use of possessive apostrophes in place names in Birmingham on road signs Birmingham City Council now has an emerging city wide view on the inclusion or...
martin mullaney
martin_mullaney
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Jan 28, 2009
5:18 pm

Oh well....
e.tat.oui
d_2005_p
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Jan 28, 2009
6:42 pm

... possessive apostrophes in place names is that they should not be re->introduced. Thats indeed sad new's especially since todae it was also re-veeled how...
mistahg
gileswallwor...
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Jan 29, 2009
4:24 pm

2009/1/29 mistahg <mistahg@...> ... SEE the Daily Telegraph could end in a Riot ...
Barnard Hobbit
barnardhobbit
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Jan 29, 2009
7:43 pm

I like the idea of local residents adding their own apostrophes with marker pens. Would it count as graffiti Martin? _____ From: moseley@yahoogroups.com...
mistahg
gileswallwor...
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Jan 29, 2009
7:57 pm

... marker ... I'll set-up a legal 'apostrophe art' wall?...
martin_mullaney
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Jan 30, 2009
9:43 am

... I cannot let this one go. As someone who spent the majority of the '80s (sic) standardising address lists, spent much of the '90s working with the...
Mike Cummins
mikelcummins
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Jan 30, 2009
6:20 pm

... need for ... address ... Geagraphic ... as 4 of ... is ... normally ... Barnard has made a good point on this issue. Search on google for "Kings Heath" and...
martin_mullaney
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Jan 31, 2009
12:49 pm

... Martin I would not expect it to differentiate between Kings Heath and King's Heath Because that is not what I asked it to do although I could get both by ...
Barnard Hobbit
barnardhobbit
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Jan 31, 2009
1:49 pm

... Heath" ... Kings ... and ... by ... argument ... Barnard if you don't use the inverted commas, then google is also searching for kings or heath as well....
martin_mullaney
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Jan 31, 2009
3:08 pm

... Yes but not necessarily to together in the right order If you wanted to make sure you found all with either Kings Heath OR King's Heath You would have to...
Barnard Hobbit
barnardhobbit
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Jan 31, 2009
3:32 pm

... I do hope that the emergency authorities aren't using Google to find Kings Heath. All the best Simon...
Simon Whitehouse
simon314244
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Jan 31, 2009
1:20 pm

... Kings ... The emergency services most likely won't anything as sophisticated as Google. So the use or non-use of the apostrophe becomes very relevant....
martin_mullaney
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Jan 31, 2009
3:06 pm

Google is bibliographic (not geographic) orientated and reflects the problems some web creators have with embedding special characters in html. Google maps...
Mike Cummins
mikelcummins
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Feb 7, 2009
7:55 am
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