Kath:
> Hi Eva,
> I just got your reply to this. You raise an excellent question here, and I
> think it was Karen's intention to hear from the community about what
> legislation we want.
>
Well that's good.  If everything is a done deal, no sense wasting the time
attending this.  If ideas are really welcomed, then it's worth spending
the time going.

The problem with the email is this:  it doesn't work (not functioning
properly).  I understand it's a problem with a groupwise upgrade or
something like that.  Whatever it is, it should get fixed.  It sounds like
it is a zoo down there though.  Glad I'm not working there.  :-)

Eva


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Hi Eva,
I just got your reply to this. You raise an excellent question here, and I
think it was Karen's intention to hear from the community about what
legislation we want.

re: reaching her...  you'll definitely have to call (651.296.0294).
There's just no way she can get through the huge volumes of email she
receives.

I look forward to seeing you there,
kath

----------
> From: Eva Young <eyoung@...>
> To: mn-logcabin@egroups.com
> Cc: sodomlist@egroups.com; ActionAlert@...;
Coyle-Discussion@...
> Subject: Re: Invitation to GLBT Community Forum at the Capitol
> Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 2:05 PM
>
> Hi Folks:
>
> I'm a bit confused here.  Has the "GLBT legislative agenda" already been
> decided here, and the goal of the forum to let us know what the agenda
is?
>
> Or, is the goal, to really find out what glbt folks want from the
> legislature this year.
>
> I'm just speaking for myself here, but I'd like to see sodomy repeal as
> part of the legislative agenda.  I really can't imagine an intelligent
> argument that supports retaining this law.
>
> I just sent some mail to Karen Clark replying to this--and it bounced.  I
> guess what I'd like to see the legislature get done soon is this:  talk
to
> their IT people and get their email fixed.
>
> Eva
> Eva Young
> eyoung@...
>
> On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Karen Clark wrote:
>
> > Representative Karen Clark & Senator Allan Spear invite you to a
> > GLBT Community Forum.
> >
> > Saturday, January 9, 1999
> > 1 pm - 3 pm
> > Room 10 of the State Office Building
> > (the hearing room where the House Judiciary Committee passed the 1993
Civil Rights Bill!!)
> >
> > AGENDA:
> > What GLBT issues will the Legislature tackle in 1999?
> >
> > -Minnesota AIDS Project 1999 Legislative agenda
> > -Outfront Minnesota-their new organizational structure and 1999
Legislative agenda
> > -Karen and Allan will share their insights about the 1999 Legislative
Session
> >
> > Find out how you can help:
> >
> > -Keep our 1993 Civil Rights Law intact
> > -Increase funding and support for HIV/AIDS programs and funding
> > -Support programs for GLBT youth in our schools
> > -Consider domestic partner legislation options
> >
> > We really hope you will come to support our community and advise us
about what you want us to be doing on your behalf in the 1999 Legislature.
> >
> >
............................................................................

> >                             The Coyle Connection
> >
> >  ____    Send discussion items to: Coyle-Discussion@...
> >  \  /       Send action alerts to: Coyle-Alert@...
> >   \/           Questions/comments? CoyleLGTB@...
> >
............................................................................

> >
> >
>
>
............................................................................

>                             The Coyle Connection
>
>  ____    Send discussion items to: Coyle-Discussion@...
>  \  /       Send action alerts to: Coyle-Alert@...
>   \/           Questions/comments? CoyleLGTB@...
>
............................................................................



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> I'm a bit confused here.  Has the "GLBT legislative agenda" already been
> decided here, and the goal of the forum to let us know what the agenda is?
>
> Or, is the goal, to really find out what glbt folks want from the
> legislature this year.

I don't find them refering to a "GLBT legislative agenda"  I see that MAP is
presenting their agenda, which is a reasonable thing to do.  Karen Clark
mentions "GLBT issues" which I take to mean things that she expects the
legislature to tackle without regard to who is bring the particular issue
forward.

I originally got the notice from OutFront Minnesota.  Someone has asked for
input or advise.  I don't see anyone trying to impose a "GLBT agenda" on
this one.



Terrell Brown
Minneapolis

> On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Karen Clark wrote:
>
> > Representative Karen Clark & Senator Allan Spear invite you to a
> > GLBT Community Forum.
> >
> > Saturday, January 9, 1999
> > 1 pm - 3 pm
> > Room 10 of the State Office Building
> > (the hearing room where the House Judiciary Committee passed
> the 1993 Civil Rights Bill!!)
> >
> > AGENDA:
> > What GLBT issues will the Legislature tackle in 1999?
> >
> > -Minnesota AIDS Project 1999 Legislative agenda
> > -Outfront Minnesota-their new organizational structure and 1999
> Legislative agenda
> > -Karen and Allan will share their insights about the 1999
> Legislative Session
> >
> > Find out how you can help:
> >
> > -Keep our 1993 Civil Rights Law intact
> > -Increase funding and support for HIV/AIDS programs and funding
> > -Support programs for GLBT youth in our schools
> > -Consider domestic partner legislation options
> >
> > We really hope you will come to support our community and
> advise us about what you want us to be doing on your behalf in
> the 1999 Legislature.
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Folks:

I'm a bit confused here.  Has the "GLBT legislative agenda" already been
decided here, and the goal of the forum to let us know what the agenda is?

Or, is the goal, to really find out what glbt folks want from the
legislature this year.

I'm just speaking for myself here, but I'd like to see sodomy repeal as
part of the legislative agenda.  I really can't imagine an intelligent
argument that supports retaining this law.

I just sent some mail to Karen Clark replying to this--and it bounced.  I
guess what I'd like to see the legislature get done soon is this:  talk to
their IT people and get their email fixed.

Eva
Eva Young
eyoung@...

On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Karen Clark wrote:

> Representative Karen Clark & Senator Allan Spear invite you to a
> GLBT Community Forum.
>
> Saturday, January 9, 1999
> 1 pm - 3 pm
> Room 10 of the State Office Building
> (the hearing room where the House Judiciary Committee passed the 1993 Civil
Rights Bill!!)
>
> AGENDA:
> What GLBT issues will the Legislature tackle in 1999?
>
> -Minnesota AIDS Project 1999 Legislative agenda
> -Outfront Minnesota-their new organizational structure and 1999 Legislative
agenda
> -Karen and Allan will share their insights about the 1999 Legislative Session
>
> Find out how you can help:
>
> -Keep our 1993 Civil Rights Law intact
> -Increase funding and support for HIV/AIDS programs and funding
> -Support programs for GLBT youth in our schools
> -Consider domestic partner legislation options
>
> We really hope you will come to support our community and advise us about what
you want us to be doing on your behalf in the 1999 Legislature.
>
> ............................................................................
>                             The Coyle Connection
>
>  ____    Send discussion items to: Coyle-Discussion@...
>  \  /       Send action alerts to: Coyle-Alert@...
>   \/           Questions/comments? CoyleLGTB@...
> ............................................................................
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Folks:

Are others on MN log cabin able to make this?  I'm planning on going.

We could go for coffee afterwards.

Why should MN Log Cabin folks go?  This is a good opportunity to be
visible.  If a bunch of us go, then we can support each other, if there's
any grief about the gay republican issue.

Eva


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:29:50 -0600
From: Karen Clark <Karen.Clark@...>
To: ActionAlert@...,
     Coyle-Discussion@...,
     glbt@...
Subject: Invitation to GLBT Community Forum at the Capitol

Representative Karen Clark & Senator Allan Spear invite you to a
GLBT Community Forum.

Saturday, January 9, 1999
1 pm - 3 pm
Room 10 of the State Office Building
(the hearing room where the House Judiciary Committee passed the 1993 Civil
Rights Bill!!)

AGENDA:
What GLBT issues will the Legislature tackle in 1999?

-Minnesota AIDS Project 1999 Legislative agenda
-Outfront Minnesota-their new organizational structure and 1999 Legislative
agenda
-Karen and Allan will share their insights about the 1999 Legislative Session

Find out how you can help:

-Keep our 1993 Civil Rights Law intact
-Increase funding and support for HIV/AIDS programs and funding
-Support programs for GLBT youth in our schools
-Consider domestic partner legislation options

We really hope you will come to support our community and advise us about what
you want us to be doing on your behalf in the 1999 Legislature.

............................................................................
                             The Coyle Connection

  ____    Send discussion items to: Coyle-Discussion@...
  \  /       Send action alerts to: Coyle-Alert@...
   \/           Questions/comments? CoyleLGTB@...
............................................................................



------------------------------------------------------------------------
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reposted from MN politics:

Re: It Is the Democratic Party; SOS Kiffmeyer and the
Voter Fraud Obscession
  By James Kiffmeyer @hotmail.com
                                                Monday
                                               January 04
                                                   1999
                                            11:49 PM PST


Eva Young <eyoun-@...> wrote:


   Though, I'm still disturbed that his relative is the secretary of
    state. I think lots of folks were NOT aware that she is firmly
   aligned with  the Quist wing of the party. Jim--you spoke for Mary
   many times on the  list before the election, perhaps you can
   comment on this.

   Her focus was on voter fraud.


I have to correct you there. Her "focus" was *not* on voter
fraud.  Preventing voter fraud was one small part of her
message. Because it is  a hot topic, that is what the some of the media
and this list picked up  on. If you go back and look at her comments,
web site, or whatever, you  will find that Integrity of the office in
*all*
areas was the key issue,  not voter fraud. Her "Citizen Participation
Plan" only mentioned voter  fraud once out of nine plans for the office.


   The republican candidate in NY for attorney

   general claimed voter fraud was the reason for his loss. He used
   this  as evidence: in several high minority voter precincts he
   compared the  list of voters with lists of people who had credit
   cards (gotten from some banks)--then he said, since there were
   voters who weren't on the credit card list, this was evidence of
   fraud--and wanted to start  investigating the "fraudulent"
   voters. What a way to suppress future turnout in low income
   areas--government harrassment of those who don't have credit
    cards.

   Will Mary Kiffmeyer try similar things in MN?


What?!?!?!

First, I don't follow your example in the least. It sounds really
  interesting, and if you told us the whole story, it is
ridiculous.  Somehow I doubt we can get the whole story in two
sentences, so I'm not  going to even comment on that issue. (though I
may look into it)

Second, that isn't even something the SOS could "try".

Why don't you point to one thing she has said or done that would
result  in what you fear, rather than creating scenerios that have no
basis in  reality.


   The secretary of state's office should be used to encourage
   voting.  Will Kiffmeyer, in her zeal to get rid of voter fraud, also
   discourage  voting? There are people who have extreme distrust of
   the government--and for  this reason are difficult to count in
   censuses. These same people are  probably less likely to vote.


Here is some quotes of a recent article in the Strib:

"She wants to recruit more election judges and get the state to help
  local governments buy better voting machines. She also wants to
conduct  focus groups with Jesse Ventura voters, with disgruntled
former voters,  minority groups and the handicapped to learn how to
encourage greater  turnout."

"I'm going to build on the good of the past," Kiffmeyer said. "I want to
  promote citizen participation and keep improving our elections."


   And what is her position on having Gays in the republican
   party? Does  she agree with the North Carolina party leaders that
   gay conservative  elected officials or party leaders who come out
   of the closet should resign  from their posts.


I don't know what Mary specifically feels about this, but you are free
  to ask her.


   Does she agree with Quist on his theories about the
   genetic predispostions of women in society?

   Inquiring minds want to know.


You will have to ask her on that, but I don't quite see what effect that
  would have on her current office responsiblities.

James Kiffmeyer

P.S. I refuse to "speak for Mary" on any of these issues. I will try to
  help the list understand what Mary stands for, supports, or opposes,
but  I will not speak for her.

Gabriel Davis" <gabemichae-@...> wrote:


   What I really want to know is if she, like her husband wants to
   rid Minnesota of SEX TOYS.


I don't see how that relates to her current responsibilities in any way,
  shape, or form, but if you really must know, ask her. The story
behind  that issue is much more complicated than given on this list or
in the  press.


   Just how is Jim related to her?


She is my mother. I manage her web site and update list for the
  campaign.


   Considering that the only thing she has

   really done is be an election judge which hardly is a qualifyer for
    elected office,


You obviously have no idea whatsoever about what Mary has done.

Another quote from the Strib:

"Kiffmeyer's political activities have been jammed into a life full of
  professional nursing, teaching breadmaking at Big Lake High School,
  managing her husband's nurse-anesthesiology business and serving on
  hospital, school and LaLeche League boards. She even worked a
while as a  part-time reporter for the Becker Citizen newspaper."

She also wasn't "just" an election judge, she also did the State-wide
  Election Judge Training Program in 1996, and has worked with
election  issues for many years.

Other activities include:

Elected Board member and Treasurer of Monticello-Big Lake
Community  Hospital and Chair of Finance Committee and member
Human Resources,  Marketing, and Quality Management
Committees. She anounced she would  resign from the board when
she announced she was running for SOS.

Community Education Teacher in politics and bread making High
School Guest Teacher for Social Studies and Home Ec.  Red Cross
Bloodmobile Volunteer
Gideon Auxiliary Hospital Auxiliary member
Big Lake Community Education Advisory Council member and chair

Just what were your "qualifications" for SOS, or "elected office" as
you  put it?


   I wonder what her real agenda is. If I remember right, she did
   get elected to a hospital board, I think it was for Big Lake though
   I'm not  sure and from what I have heard she was instrumental in
   having the hospital  stop performing abortions. Anyone know the
   specifics of this? Will she now resign from the hospital board?


She has already resigned as I mentioned. I have no idea regarding the
  abortion issue.


   Hopefully, she will like her husband only

   serve one term and then be placed on the political one term heap
   of political ambitious.
   Gabriel Davis


Mary will be judged by what she does in office before the next
election.  I have no qualms about what she will have to show in four
years, and  have no doubt it will be a good change for MN.

You can keep up with her activities and changes she makes at
  www.kiffmeyer.org

James Kiffmeyer

-------------------------
Eva C. Young
eyoung@...


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Hi Folks:

here's some of the kiffmeyer thread--from MN politics...

Maybe we should all call the SOS's office and offer to be part of the gay
focus group she's planning.  We could make a second call to the republican
party and make the same offer.

:-)

Eva

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:19:57 CST
From: James Kiffmeyer <kiffster@...>
To: mn-politics@...
Subject: Re: SOS focus groups

regal.fem" <regal.fem@...> wrote:

>James wrote (or snipped)...
>"She wants to recruit more election judges and get the state to help
>local governments buy better voting machines. She also wants to conduct
>focus groups with Jesse Ventura voters, with disgruntled former voters,
>minority groups and the handicapped to learn how to encourage greater
>turnout."
>
>"I'm going to build on the good of the past," Kiffmeyer said. "I want
to
>promote citizen participation and keep improving our elections."
>

>This is great!  Jim, would you tell Mary I'd like to volunteer to help
put
>together the focus
>groups for the GLBT community?

I will certainly pass this on to her and let her know your interest.  I
doubt she will conduct focus groups with *every* group possible, but if
you feel the GLBT community is a group that is in need of a focus group,
I'm sure she would be interested in your comments regarding how she
could help them increase their participation as citizens.

James Kiffmeyer
kiffster@...

______________________________________________________

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well put!!


-----Original Message-----
From: tlind@... <tlind@...>
To: mn-logcabin@egroups.com <mn-logcabin@egroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 9:31 PM
Subject: [mn-logcabin] Re: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender
deputy mayor(fwd)


>Nathan,
>
>You are overlooking one very important fact. Simply stated there are more
>Democrats (traditional and liberal) and Independent fiscal conservative,
>social liberals than the entire Republican Party combined.
>
>As someone who ran as a Republican candidate in a district that has a .68:4
>ratio Rep/Dem and sixty percent declared independents, for a House seat, I
>know this first hand. I am a member of the RNC and Liberal democrats voted
>for me as well as Green party and Progressives.
>
>I had the qualifications and was the better candidate. The factor was the
>that we agreed on 90% of the issues. My opponent exploited the Allan Quist
>platform to defeat me. As long as we allow others to discount the
>individual, in direct conflict with our belief in a less tyrannical society
>and government, we are vulnerable. Many of the Democrats who gave me money
>and put up a lawn sign in plain view of their Democrat neighbors see the
>future in the "Big Tent". Not the exclusion of the old guard Republicans,
>nor the socialist and oppressive tendencies of the Democratic Party. We as
>Republicans must set the tone for the next century. We must stand for
>individual rights, our constitution, our families and our freedom.
>
>If you have been paying attention the Republican Governor's, the Majority
>in both the house and the Senate occurred curiously with the rise of the
>Fiscal conservative, socially open Republicans. You may want to think about
>why a Democrats have lost long held seats to Republicans. Because we
>finally gave them a reason to vote for us.
>
>The reason the Democrats in Texas and Minnesota are on the "ropes" is that
>they have ruined themselves. As we have stood for lower taxes, real reforms
>in education and welfare, real crime initiatives and allowing families and
>individuals to take control of their lives, the Democrats ran rampant with
>socialist programs and initiatives to take the freedoms and controls out of
>your hands and the hands of your neighbors. They lost touch with the
>American people at all levels. Would you have us do the same.
>
>To your other point. In the state of Minnesota the of Homosexuals to
>Heterosexuals is just a little under 1:3. Close to 30%.
>Roughly 40% of Minnesotans are Democrat, 30-some % are Republicans. The
>rest are independent. And, of those roughly 70% are fiscal conservatives
>and social moderates.
>
>We must concentrate on the 90% that we have in common not the 10% we
>disagree on.
>
>Todd Lindquist
>
>
>
>
>----------
>> From: Eva Young <eyoung@...>
>> To: lcr-chat@...; mn-logcabin@egroups.com
>> Subject: [mn-logcabin] Re: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender
>deputy mayor(fwd)
>> Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 1:26 PM
>>
>> Hi Folks:
>>
>> I'd like to respond to this--but would appreciate all your thoughts.
>>
>> This is about more than just the MN republican party.
>>
>> Eva
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:28:46 EST
>> From: SproulND@...
>> To: eyoung@...,
>>     tmoen@...
>> Cc: regal.fem@...,
>>     overeagle@...,
>>     mn-politics@...
>> Subject: Re: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender deputy mayor
>>
>> In a message dated 98-12-22 10:57:10 EST, eyoung@...
>writes:
>>
>> << The question for the Minnesota Republican Party is this:  There is a
>>  Minnesota Log Cabin group organizing.  Will the Alan Quist wing of the
>>  party actively work to keep Log Cabin out of the party--as the analogous
>
>>  "theocrat" wing of the Texas Republican Party--with disastrous
>>  consequences?  Or will the party be the "Big Tent?" that it claims to
>be. >>
>>
>> Two Questions.
>>
>> 1)  What is disastrous about the Texas GOP? Someone recently described
>the
>> Dems in Texas as "in a thousand year winter." That isn't very promising.
>>
>> 2)  Why does "big tent" always refer to homosexuals? Clearly, the values
>of
>> social conservatives (40-50% of Republican voters) are opposed to some of
>the
>> stated values of homosexual activists (1-2% of Republican voters). Why
>then,
>> do we alienate 40% of our base to attract and keep 2%? This logic has
>always
>> escaped me.
>>
>> The promoters of the "GOP big tent theory" want social conservatives to
>follow
>> the lead of liberal dems. "Shut up. Don't say anything. Never stand for
>> principle. So what if you are a dove, Clinton had to bomb Iraq and the
>aspirin
>> factory. Now go out on the floor of the House and support this military
>> operation. So what if you are a strong advocate of prosecuting sexual
>> harrasment cases. Shut up and don't say anything b/c at least Clinton
>will
>> veto a ban on partial birth abortion."
>>
>> This logic doesn't work with conservative Republicans. The big tent works
>only
>> if everyone keeps quiet and never disagrees. It is basic math. 40% is
>bigger
>> than 2%.
>>
>> Nathan Sproul
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Leave the web behind and enter the magic world of Disney
>> Loads of games, activities, and all your favorite characters in one place
>> http://ads.egroups.com/click/133/3
>>
>> eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/mn-logcabin
>> Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>For the absolute lowest price on Video/PC Games visit:
>http://ads.egroups.com/click/58/1/bottomdollar
>
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>
>


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Nathan,

You are overlooking one very important fact. Simply stated there are more
Democrats (traditional and liberal) and Independent fiscal conservative,
social liberals than the entire Republican Party combined.

As someone who ran as a Republican candidate in a district that has a .68:4
ratio Rep/Dem and sixty percent declared independents, for a House seat, I
know this first hand. I am a member of the RNC and Liberal democrats voted
for me as well as Green party and Progressives.

I had the qualifications and was the better candidate. The factor was the
that we agreed on 90% of the issues. My opponent exploited the Allan Quist
platform to defeat me. As long as we allow others to discount the
individual, in direct conflict with our belief in a less tyrannical society
and government, we are vulnerable. Many of the Democrats who gave me money
and put up a lawn sign in plain view of their Democrat neighbors see the
future in the "Big Tent". Not the exclusion of the old guard Republicans,
nor the socialist and oppressive tendencies of the Democratic Party. We as
Republicans must set the tone for the next century. We must stand for
individual rights, our constitution, our families and our freedom.

If you have been paying attention the Republican Governor's, the Majority
in both the house and the Senate occurred curiously with the rise of the
Fiscal conservative, socially open Republicans. You may want to think about
why a Democrats have lost long held seats to Republicans. Because we
finally gave them a reason to vote for us.

The reason the Democrats in Texas and Minnesota are on the "ropes" is that
they have ruined themselves. As we have stood for lower taxes, real reforms
in education and welfare, real crime initiatives and allowing families and
individuals to take control of their lives, the Democrats ran rampant with
socialist programs and initiatives to take the freedoms and controls out of
your hands and the hands of your neighbors. They lost touch with the
American people at all levels. Would you have us do the same.

To your other point. In the state of Minnesota the of Homosexuals to
Heterosexuals is just a little under 1:3. Close to 30%.
Roughly 40% of Minnesotans are Democrat, 30-some % are Republicans. The
rest are independent. And, of those roughly 70% are fiscal conservatives
and social moderates.

We must concentrate on the 90% that we have in common not the 10% we
disagree on.

Todd Lindquist




----------
> From: Eva Young <eyoung@...>
> To: lcr-chat@...; mn-logcabin@egroups.com
> Subject: [mn-logcabin] Re: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender
deputy mayor(fwd)
> Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 1:26 PM
>
> Hi Folks:
>
> I'd like to respond to this--but would appreciate all your thoughts.
>
> This is about more than just the MN republican party.
>
> Eva
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:28:46 EST
> From: SproulND@...
> To: eyoung@...,
>     tmoen@...
> Cc: regal.fem@...,
>     overeagle@...,
>     mn-politics@...
> Subject: Re: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender deputy mayor
>
> In a message dated 98-12-22 10:57:10 EST, eyoung@...
writes:
>
> << The question for the Minnesota Republican Party is this:  There is a
>  Minnesota Log Cabin group organizing.  Will the Alan Quist wing of the
>  party actively work to keep Log Cabin out of the party--as the analogous

>  "theocrat" wing of the Texas Republican Party--with disastrous
>  consequences?  Or will the party be the "Big Tent?" that it claims to
be. >>
>
> Two Questions.
>
> 1)  What is disastrous about the Texas GOP? Someone recently described
the
> Dems in Texas as "in a thousand year winter." That isn't very promising.
>
> 2)  Why does "big tent" always refer to homosexuals? Clearly, the values
of
> social conservatives (40-50% of Republican voters) are opposed to some of
the
> stated values of homosexual activists (1-2% of Republican voters). Why
then,
> do we alienate 40% of our base to attract and keep 2%? This logic has
always
> escaped me.
>
> The promoters of the "GOP big tent theory" want social conservatives to
follow
> the lead of liberal dems. "Shut up. Don't say anything. Never stand for
> principle. So what if you are a dove, Clinton had to bomb Iraq and the
aspirin
> factory. Now go out on the floor of the House and support this military
> operation. So what if you are a strong advocate of prosecuting sexual
> harrasment cases. Shut up and don't say anything b/c at least Clinton
will
> veto a ban on partial birth abortion."
>
> This logic doesn't work with conservative Republicans. The big tent works
only
> if everyone keeps quiet and never disagrees. It is basic math. 40% is
bigger
> than 2%.
>
> Nathan Sproul
>
>
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Hey Dan:

Thank you for your comparative analysis of republican politics in MN and
Virginia.  These arguments will be very helpful to us at MN Log Cabin,
when MN Log Cabin folks meet with people in the MN republican party, and
republican elected officials.

Interestingly enough, Mr. Sproul had agreed (in an earlier MN politics
dialog/debate on this issue), that sodomy laws SHOULD be repealed.

The question then becomes, how can the republican party become a place
where Gays and social conservatives can coexist?  And what about the gays
who hold views that would be described as socially conservative?  I have a
lesbian friend, who is a fundementalist christian, very much opposed to
abortion--but is also proudly gay.  (It took her awhile to get to this).

Eva
eyoung@...

MN Log Cabin discussion:
	 http://www.egroups.com/list/mn-logcabin/


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Nathan Sproul makes an interesting point and one that we shouldn't lose sight
of. His numbers, however, are wrong.  In conservative Virginia, where I live
and vote and which serves as the base of operations for Pat Robertson and
Jerry Falwell, a poll conducted after the 1997 gubernatorial election
indicated that only 18% of Jim Gilmore's  (Republican elected governor that
year) voters were from the religious right.  So, let's round up to give them
more credit and you get 1 in 5 Republican voters (in a conservative state)who
define themselves as part of the religious right -- or are social
conservatives.

Let's say, as Mr. Sproul claims --and again let's round up-- that 2% of the
GOP voters are "homosexual activists." That means there are 10 times as many
social conservatives as there are gay Republicans.

The issue is not merely keeping the larger group within the party, but is
keeping the larger group within the party -- and the smaller and then
pondering how the remaining three-quarters of the GOP electorate would respond
to the inclusion (or exclusion) of social conservatives and.or gay activists.

In conservative Virginia, we have seen, that those who embrace too closely the
social conservatives, lose moderate Republican votes.  The only two
Republicans to lose state-wide in Virginia in the 1990s, Mike Farris (lost for
Lt. Governor in 1993) and Ollie North (lost for Senate against a weak
incumbent in 1994) were tied to the far right.  (Both George Bush and Bob Dole
carried Virginia.  We Virginians are proud that we rejected both Jimmy Carter
and Bill Clinton.)

So, if you focus only on the far right, or as your Minnesotans would put it,
the Quist wing of the party, you lose the moderates. Note than in 1994 while
Mr. Quist won a large majority at the state convention, he lost by a two-to-
one margin in the primary.  Rank-and-file Republicans overwhelmingly voted
against him.  And probably would have done the same in the unfortunate event
that he had won the primary.

Our party needs to find a balance.  If you attack gays, you drive moderate
Republicans and open-minded conservatives away.  We saw this in Arlingotn in
1997 when a Republican-backed independent attacked her openly gay opponent for
promoting an extreme agenda.  Those Republicans who saw her anti-gay mailings
either blank-balloted, voted Democrat of did not vote in that race.  But, if
we losed the far right, we lose roughly one-fifth of our electorate.

We need a big tent and one that includes both the social conservatives and the
libertarian wing of the party.  As to the math that Mr. Sproul touts, the
issue isn't the percentage who are social conservatives and those who are
"homosexual activists," but getting to 51% -- and then some --- in the general
election.  His math might work well for party gathering and ensure their
harmony.  There would be no messy battles over social issues.  But, it would
be a pleasant gathering of a politically ineffective organization.  They would
appease the social conservatives and lose the general election.

The issue for all Republicans is to focus on what unites us, those basic
Republican themes that have ensured our victories in 1980, 1984, 1988 and1994
and helped us win big in the states in 1998 and in Virginia in 1993 and 1997.
(Minnesotans would do well that the candidate who talked like some Republicans
plus the former Democrat who was the Republican nominee tallied over 70% of
the vote, leaving the Democrat with the great Democratic name with just over
one in 4 votes in the only state that voted Democrat in the Reagan landslide
of 1984.)  We can get up to 72% in liberal Minnesota--and perhaps more
elsewhere--if we include all wings of the party.  If social conservatives want
to win elections as Republicans and enact at least part of their agenda (some
of which we Log Cabinites share), they're going to have to cut the anti-gay
crap and work shoulder to shoulder on campaigns with people with whom they
would rather not socialize.

We gay GOPers must accept that the religious right is welcome in the
Republican tent, but they must accept that if they try to keep gay GOPers out,
they will drive others out as well.  They may not be the ideal way to promote
tolerance of gay people, may not be the most moral way, but it is a political
reality that anti-gay rhetoric turns off many moderates and a number of
conservatives.

Let's stop the name-calling and focus on the party-building.

The issues are cutting taxes, providing regulatory relief, cutting government
rebuiliding our national defenses, protecting families and churches from
government meddling, respecting the rule of law and promoting a pro-American
foreing policy.

Sincerely,
Dan
(Daniel Blatt
President
The Log Cabin Republican Club of
Northern Virginia)

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Hi Nathan:
On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 SproulND@... wrote:

> In a message dated 98-12-22 10:57:10 EST, eyoung@... writes:
>
> << The question for the Minnesota Republican Party is this:  There is a
>  Minnesota Log Cabin group organizing.  Will the Alan Quist wing of the
>  party actively work to keep Log Cabin out of the party--as the analogous
>  "theocrat" wing of the Texas Republican Party--with disastrous
>  consequences?  Or will the party be the "Big Tent?" that it claims to be. >>
>
> Two Questions.
>
> 1)  What is disastrous about the Texas GOP? Someone recently described the
> Dems in Texas as "in a thousand year winter." That isn't very promising.
>
Nathan--and others, here is some more info on why I think some of the
Texas GOPs recent actions were disasterous.  My comments are intertwined.

This is from Log Cabin's description of the On the Front Lines Video.

NOW AVAILABLE FROM THE LOG CABIN EDUCATION FUND:

"On The Front Lines" - The Anti-Gay Agenda Exposed

FORT WORTH, TEXAS. JUNE 1998. Fifty elected openly gay
Republican delegates and alternates to the Texas Republican Convention are
denied a Log Cabin Republicans of Texas exhibit booth. State party
spokesman Robert Black launches a public attack campaign against LCR in
the Texas media, comparing the openly-gay delegates to child molestors,
"pedophiles, transvestites and cross-dressers," calling them "moral
deviants" and comparing LCR to the Ku Klux Klan.

My comment:  Will it help Steve Sviggum to get a reelected house majority
to have this nonsense emanate from republican party leaders?

I'm a bit tired of being called a pedophile just because I'm gay.  I find
it a bit ironic that the piece of legislation designed to protect the
sanctity of marriage (DOMA) seems to have done nothing to improve the
quality of DOMA supporters' Clinton, Livingston, Burton, or Hyde's
marriages.

more from the On the Front Lines description:

When these brave gay GOP delegates organize a peaceful rally to call for
an inclusive Republican Party, radical right GOP activists beckoned by
the Texas GOP's public tirade -- some of whom were also delegates to
the convention -- descend on them, interrupt the Pledge of
Allegiance, desecrate the American flag, jeer at messages from top
Republican
Members of Congress and scream "God does not love you! He hates you!" --
and it was captured on video.

My comment:  This behavior sounds more like the followers of Fred Phelps
(of www.godhatesfags.com) --and, where are the folks wanting flag
desicration ammendments when you need them?  :-)

"ON THE FRONT LINES" documents a turning point for the Republican Party
in 1998, where GOP activists drew a line in the sand and launched
the counter-attack against the radical right within their party.  It
vividly demonstrates a lesson taught the hard way to the Texas GOP --
words have consequences, both in terms of public safety, and political
backlash.

"ON THE FRONT LINES" tells the full story of a remarkable week, leading
up to the confrontation in Fort Worth -- and the footage you will see are
the images that forced the state GOP leadership into a retreat. Witness
the confrontation outside the convention hall for yourself, and the flurry
of television news reports from local and national reporters on the scene.
See the Texas GOP Chairwoman scramble onstage inside the GOP convention
hall, struggling to repair the damage done by her own troops. And hear
from the strategists and activists who convinced Governor George W. Bush,
the leading contender for the 2000 GOP nomination, to publicly call on the
state GOP to back off.

My comments:  not particularly helpful to George Dubya's campaign.

See the real face of the movement being led today by James Dobson and
Gary Bauer, who have declared they will "convert" the Republican Party to
their agenda -- or bring it down. And see the gay and lesbian Americans
who stood up to them -- and won the battle in the searing heat of that
Texas afternoon.

Advertisement on how to get the video deleted.

> 2)  Why does "big tent" always refer to homosexuals? Clearly, the values of
> social conservatives (40-50% of Republican voters) are opposed to some of the
> stated values of homosexual activists (1-2% of Republican voters). Why then,
> do we alienate 40% of our base to attract and keep 2%? This logic has always
> escaped me.
>
It's not just "homosexual activists" who reject the antigay message from
people like Pat Robertson, Gary Bauer, James Dobson, and Alan Quist.

It is families and friends of the same.  Part of the reason Norm Coleman
lost the election is because he took the stand that he wanted to repeal
the human rights act as it applied to gays.

> The promoters of the "GOP big tent theory" want social conservatives to follow
> the lead of liberal dems. "Shut up. Don't say anything. Never stand for
> principle. So what if you are a dove, Clinton had to bomb Iraq and the aspirin
> factory. Now go out on the floor of the House and support this military
> operation. So what if you are a strong advocate of prosecuting sexual
> harrasment cases. Shut up and don't say anything b/c at least Clinton will
> veto a ban on partial birth abortion."
>
> This logic doesn't work with conservative Republicans. The big tent works only
> if everyone keeps quiet and never disagrees. It is basic math. 40% is bigger
> than 2%.

True, 40% is bigger than 2%, but are you saying the republican party
should be restricted to heterosexuals only?

And aren't law abiding social conservatives a bit embarrassed by the
behaviors described above?

Eva Young
eyoung@...

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
Christian religion."  George Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, 1796


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Hi Folks:

I'd like to respond to this--but would appreciate all your thoughts.

This is about more than just the MN republican party.

Eva

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:28:46 EST
From: SproulND@...
To: eyoung@...,
     tmoen@...
Cc: regal.fem@...,
     overeagle@...,
     mn-politics@...
Subject: Re: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender deputy mayor

In a message dated 98-12-22 10:57:10 EST, eyoung@... writes:

<< The question for the Minnesota Republican Party is this:  There is a
  Minnesota Log Cabin group organizing.  Will the Alan Quist wing of the
  party actively work to keep Log Cabin out of the party--as the analogous
  "theocrat" wing of the Texas Republican Party--with disastrous
  consequences?  Or will the party be the "Big Tent?" that it claims to be. >>

Two Questions.

1)  What is disastrous about the Texas GOP? Someone recently described the
Dems in Texas as "in a thousand year winter." That isn't very promising.

2)  Why does "big tent" always refer to homosexuals? Clearly, the values of
social conservatives (40-50% of Republican voters) are opposed to some of the
stated values of homosexual activists (1-2% of Republican voters). Why then,
do we alienate 40% of our base to attract and keep 2%? This logic has always
escaped me.

The promoters of the "GOP big tent theory" want social conservatives to follow
the lead of liberal dems. "Shut up. Don't say anything. Never stand for
principle. So what if you are a dove, Clinton had to bomb Iraq and the aspirin
factory. Now go out on the floor of the House and support this military
operation. So what if you are a strong advocate of prosecuting sexual
harrasment cases. Shut up and don't say anything b/c at least Clinton will
veto a ban on partial birth abortion."

This logic doesn't work with conservative Republicans. The big tent works only
if everyone keeps quiet and never disagrees. It is basic math. 40% is bigger
than 2%.

Nathan Sproul


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Hi Mitch:
>
> However, what it DOESN'T account for is the left's propaganda cant that
> Norm is "anti-gay".  It's a broad, and now we see incorrect, brush.  I
> think it'd be swell if the left in St. Paul would admit it.
I'm not speaking for the left, not even the pagan variety.  :-)

I haven't ever said Norm is anti-gay.  He did run an antigay campaign.  I
especially found it offensive when he compared Skip's position on DOMA
with Jesse's position on prostitution.  This was implicitely comparing
gays to prostitutes and I resented it.  I've used the term "Quist Puppet"
to discribe the phenomenum--because on this issue, during his campaign, he
was speaking the Quist party line, not what he actually thought about the
issue.

He wanted to repeal the Human Rights Act as it applies to gays.  If he
wanted to really get rid of "special rights", why not repeal the whole
human rights act--not just single out gays, or as the MN Family Council
now wants to do, single out transgenders?

And speaking of "special rights", what about veteran's preferences?
Veteran's get 10 points on civil service tests, just because they are a
veteran.  This certainly doesn't promote a merit hiring process.  I don't
hear any of the folks who want to get rid of affirmative action, and
"special rights" talking about this one.

Norm is not antigay, but unlike Arne Carlson, he knuckled down, and spoke
the words of Quist on the subject.  Since those were his public
statements, he deserved the roasting he got on the issue.

He made a big mistake--and he lost the election.  End of story.

There is more discussion of Norm and gay issues at the web archives for
the Minnesota Log Cabin:

	 http://www.egroups.com/lists/mn-logcabin/

Anyway, I'm interested in what Norm will do in the future.  The 98
campaign is old news.  Let's see if Norm learns from his mistakes.

Eva
Eva Young
eyoung@...


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NOW AVAILABLE FROM THE LOG CABIN EDUCATION FUND:

"On The Front Lines" - The Anti-Gay Agenda Exposed

FORT WORTH, TEXAS. JUNE 1998.  Fifty elected openly gay Republican
delegates and alternates to the Texas Republican Convention are denied a
Log Cabin Republicans of Texas exhibit booth.  State party spokesman Robert
Black launches a public attack campaign against LCR in the Texas media,
comparing the openly-gay delegates to child molestors, "pedophiles,
transvestites and cross-dressers," calling them "moral deviants" and
comparing LCR to the Ku Klux Klan.

When these brave gay GOP delegates organize a peaceful rally to call for an
inclusive Republican Party, radical right GOP activists beckoned by the
Texas GOP's public tirade -- some of whom were also delegates to the
convention -- descend on them, interrupt the Pledge of Allegiance,
desecrate the American flag, jeer at messages from top Republican Members
of Congress and scream "God does not love you! He hates you!" -- and it was
captured on video.

"ON THE FRONT LINES" documents a turning point for the Republican Party in
1998, where GOP activists drew a line in the sand and launched the
counter-attack against the radical right within their party.   It vividly
demonstrates a lesson taught the hard way to the Texas GOP -- words have
consequences, both in terms of public safety, and political backlash.

"ON THE FRONT LINES" tells the full story of a remarkable week, leading up
to the confrontation in Fort Worth -- and the footage you will see are the
images that forced the state GOP leadership into a retreat.  Witness the
confrontation outside the convention hall for yourself, and the flurry of
television news reports from local and national reporters on the scene.
See the Texas GOP Chairwoman scramble onstage inside the GOP convention
hall, struggling to repair the damage done by her own troops.  And hear
from the strategists and activists who convinced Governor George W. Bush,
the leading contender for the 2000 GOP nomination, to publicly call on the
state GOP to back off.

See the real face of the movement being led today by James Dobson and Gary
Bauer, who have declared they will "convert" the Republican Party to their
agenda -- or bring it down.  And see the gay and lesbian Americans who
stood up to them -- and won the battle in the searing heat of that Texas
afternoon.

To place your order for "On the Front Lines" send your name and address and
$19.95 per video to LCEF Video, 1633 Q St., N.W. #210, Washington, D.C.
20009.  Allow 2 weeks for delivery within the United States.


Log Cabin Republicans  Kevin Ivers
(202) 347-5306 phone  Director of Public Affairs
(202) 347-5224 fax  http://www.lcr.org

Hi Terrell:

Thanks for posting your comments and letter to mn-logcabin.  This is quite
interesting.  Did Norm Coleman respond to the letter?

Obviously Coleman has listened to very bad advice.  I think the question now is
this:

Will he start trying to bring more fiscally conservative gays into the
republican party?

He did bungle this one badly I think--because his flip flops on this issue make
him look really untrustworthy.  It will take him some time to live that down.

I saw Norm in a debate with Benson and Quist.  This was before he pledged to
repeal the human rights act.  He seemed very uncomfortable with taking this
stand.  Quist pushed him hard on it.  Later he cowtowed to Quist on this
one--and I think it cost him the election.

A friend of mine talked her brother into voting for Ventura--rather than
Coleman--because Coleman had said he would sign a repeal of the gay rights
amendment to the human rights act.  She told her brother:  "please don't vote
for someone who wants to repeal the gay rights ammendment.  This is a law that
protects me."  How many other glbt folks had conversations like these with their
supportive parents, friends and coworkers?

The problem is, that in order for a candidate to get the endorsement of the
Republican Party in Minnesota (statewide) as the party is currently constituted,
they end up having to make pledges like this.  The only way that will change is
if more folks who are pro-gay join the party and change the platform on this
issue.  The problem is that the republican party has a very bad image in the gay
community.  Statements comparing gays to kleptomaniacs by Trent Lott, and the
debacle at the Texas Republican Party convention have convinced many fiscally
conservative gays that they have no place in the republican party.  They cross
over and vote Democrat.  In MN, Speaker Sviggum promoted quite a few pieces on
antigay legislation.  This year he has made the statement that the republican
caucus will stay away from social issues.

The Democratic party has it's problems with homophobia also--and what would be
really interesting, and worth while, is if MN Log Cabin could identify who some
of the homophobic democratic legislators are, and target their district with a
progay republican.

Interestingly enough, the sodomy laws are not mentioned in the republican party
platform this year.  This is an opportunity I think--hey, republican reps and
senators can support sodomy repeal without going against party platform.

The bigger question:  Will the Republican Party in Minnesota welcome glbt folks
to the party--or will they try to exclude gays as they are doing in North
Carolina (party leadership pushing for resignation of a conservative gay judge,
who recently came out), or Texas, whose raucus convention has been immortalized
in On the Front Lines.

The National Log Cabin site has lots of useful information and election
analysis.  The site is regularly updated.  You can find it at:

              http://www.lcr.org/

Minnesota GOP website:

              http://www.gop-mn.org/

Eva
Eva Young
eva@...
>
> regarding Cliff's comments/questions about:
> http://www.pioneerplanet.com/news/mtc_docs/029005.htm
>
>
> Okay, I'm finally getting around to dealing with some of the email messages
> that have come it this week.  I had many conversations with Mayor Coleman
> and his campaign beginning with my letter (copy attached) that I wrote the
> night, last March when we first learned we may have a real problem.
> Although the Mayor had refused to sign some Pride proclamations, something
> about an issue with transsexual or transgender, he was a regular attender of
> such events as the annual HRC dinner.
>
> Everyone I talked with would tell me that the Mayor isn't a bigot.  This
> included his campaign managers, staff members and appointees of Governor
> Carlson and others who know the Mayor.  I really believe that he isn't a
> bigot and said something stupid to appease what one staffer referred to as
> "the bigots in the party."  Unfortunately the bigots control much of the
> Republican Party of Minnesota.
>
> While I may have preferred that Coleman go to a primary had he not obtained
> the endorsement (which I think he would have gotten anyway), that wasn't a
> realistic option.  The state party leadership was set on having a meaningful
> endorsement come out of the state convention and avoiding a primary and many
> of these people were leaders in the Coleman campaign.  This folks was an
> improvement as the Quist types had lost much of their control over the state
> party.  Quist was seeking the endorsement as was Lt. Gov. JoAnn Benson.  Our
> Senate District 60 delegates were fairly solidly in the Coleman camp, our
> nominating committee (whose nominations are virtually always elected) had
> met prior to any statements that even suggested a problem.  (I wasn't on the
> nominating committee as I had limited myself to appointing it and providing
> my living room as a place for it to meet).  Basically I think Norm got stuck
> and listened to some bad advice.
>
> Fast forward to this week when announcing his Deputy Mayor appointment he
> said: ``I believe in recognizing people for their talent and competency.
> Susan Kimberly is a very able and talented public servant."  Unfortunately
> there are many who will make such choices on a basis other than competency.
> This appointment may well be very helpful for some other reasons.  The
> so-called Minnesota Family Council is going to make a major effort to exempt
> schools from the state Human Rights Act.  MFC is motivated by 2 transsexual
> teachers in Minnesota, a librarian and an art or music teacher, one in a
> Minneapolis High School and the other in a suburban Middle School.  This
> very visible appointment by their (former?) poster boy will take the wind
> out of their sales.
>
> We  can educate the Mayor and we will see his name on  a future ballot.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CEserman@... <CEserman@...>
> To: c-mehler@... <c-mehler@...>; PaulAlanW@...
> <PaulAlanW@...>; tlind@... <tlind@...>;
> terrell.brown@... <terrell.brown@...>; Todd.5@...
> <Todd.5@...>; REMAXJDK@... <REMAXJDK@...>; bspivey@...
> <bspivey@...>; trussell@... <trussell@...>;
> darren@... <darren@...>; CLamon58@...
> <CLamon58@...>; jasonalan@... <jasonalan@...>
> Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 9:45 AM
> Subject: Fwd: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender deputy mayor
>
>
> >This is our region.  Does anyone in the Minneapolis area have more to share
> >with the rest of the region?
> >
> >CLIFF



-----
See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/mn-logcabin/?start=14

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Hi Terrell:

Thanks for posting your comments and letter to mn-logcabin.  This is quite
interesting.  Did Norm Coleman respond to the letter?

Obviously Coleman has listened to very bad advice.  I think the question now is
this:

Will he start trying to bring more fiscally conservative gays into the
republican party?

He did bungle this one badly I think--because his flip flops on this issue make
him look really untrustworthy.  It will take him some time to live that down.

I saw Norm in a debate with Benson and Quist.  This was before he pledged to
repeal the human rights act.  He seemed very uncomfortable with taking this
stand.  Quist pushed him hard on it.  Later he cowtowed to Quist on this
one--and I think it cost him the election.

A friend of mine talked her brother into voting for Ventura--rather than
Coleman--because Coleman had said he would sign a repeal of the gay rights
amendment to the human rights act.  She told her brother:  "please don't vote
for someone who wants to repeal the gay rights ammendment.  This is a law that
protects me."  How many other glbt folks had conversations like these with their
supportive parents, friends and coworkers?

The problem is, that in order for a candidate to get the endorsement of the
Republican Party in Minnesota (statewide) as the party is currently constituted,
they end up having to make pledges like this.  The only way that will change is
if more folks who are pro-gay join the party and change the platform on this
issue.  The problem is that the republican party has a very bad image in the gay
community.  Statements comparing gays to kleptomaniacs by Trent Lott, and the
debacle at the Texas Republican Party convention have convinced many fiscally
conservative gays that they have no place in the republican party.  They cross
over and vote Democrat.  In MN, Speaker Sviggum promoted quite a few pieces on
antigay legislation.  This year he has made the statement that the republican
caucus will stay away from social issues.

The Democratic party has it's problems with homophobia also--and what would be
really interesting, and worth while, is if MN Log Cabin could identify who some
of the homophobic democratic legislators are, and target their district with a
progay republican.

Interestingly enough, the sodomy laws are not mentioned in the republican party
platform this year.  This is an opportunity I think--hey, republican reps and
senators can support sodomy repeal without going against party platform.

The bigger question:  Will the Republican Party in Minnesota welcome glbt folks
to the party--or will they try to exclude gays as they are doing in North
Carolina (party leadership pushing for resignation of a conservative gay judge,
who recently came out), or Texas, whose raucus convention has been immortalized
in On the Front Lines.

The National Log Cabin site has lots of useful information and election
analysis.  The site is regularly updated.  You can find it at:

http://www.lcr.org/
Eva
Eva Young
eva@...
>
> regarding Cliff's comments/questions about:
> http://www.pioneerplanet.com/news/mtc_docs/029005.htm
>
>
> Okay, I'm finally getting around to dealing with some of the email messages
> that have come it this week.  I had many conversations with Mayor Coleman
> and his campaign beginning with my letter (copy attached) that I wrote the
> night, last March when we first learned we may have a real problem.
> Although the Mayor had refused to sign some Pride proclamations, something
> about an issue with transsexual or transgender, he was a regular attender of
> such events as the annual HRC dinner.
>
> Everyone I talked with would tell me that the Mayor isn't a bigot.  This
> included his campaign managers, staff members and appointees of Governor
> Carlson and others who know the Mayor.  I really believe that he isn't a
> bigot and said something stupid to appease what one staffer referred to as
> "the bigots in the party."  Unfortunately the bigots control much of the
> Republican Party of Minnesota.
>
> While I may have preferred that Coleman go to a primary had he not obtained
> the endorsement (which I think he would have gotten anyway), that wasn't a
> realistic option.  The state party leadership was set on having a meaningful
> endorsement come out of the state convention and avoiding a primary and many
> of these people were leaders in the Coleman campaign.  This folks was an
> improvement as the Quist types had lost much of their control over the state
> party.  Quist was seeking the endorsement as was Lt. Gov. JoAnn Benson.  Our
> Senate District 60 delegates were fairly solidly in the Coleman camp, our
> nominating committee (whose nominations are virtually always elected) had
> met prior to any statements that even suggested a problem.  (I wasn't on the
> nominating committee as I had limited myself to appointing it and providing
> my living room as a place for it to meet).  Basically I think Norm got stuck
> and listened to some bad advice.
>
> Fast forward to this week when announcing his Deputy Mayor appointment he
> said: ``I believe in recognizing people for their talent and competency.
> Susan Kimberly is a very able and talented public servant."  Unfortunately
> there are many who will make such choices on a basis other than competency.
> This appointment may well be very helpful for some other reasons.  The
> so-called Minnesota Family Council is going to make a major effort to exempt
> schools from the state Human Rights Act.  MFC is motivated by 2 transsexual
> teachers in Minnesota, a librarian and an art or music teacher, one in a
> Minneapolis High School and the other in a suburban Middle School.  This
> very visible appointment by their (former?) poster boy will take the wind
> out of their sales.
>
> We  can educate the Mayor and we will see his name on  a future ballot.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CEserman@... <CEserman@...>
> To: c-mehler@... <c-mehler@...>; PaulAlanW@...
> <PaulAlanW@...>; tlind@... <tlind@...>;
> terrell.brown@... <terrell.brown@...>; Todd.5@...
> <Todd.5@...>; REMAXJDK@... <REMAXJDK@...>; bspivey@...
> <bspivey@...>; trussell@... <trussell@...>;
> darren@... <darren@...>; CLamon58@...
> <CLamon58@...>; jasonalan@... <jasonalan@...>
> Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 9:45 AM
> Subject: Fwd: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender deputy mayor
>
>
> >This is our region.  Does anyone in the Minneapolis area have more to share
> >with the rest of the region?
> >
> >CLIFF



-----
See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/mn-logcabin/?start=14

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regarding Cliff's comments/questions about:
http://www.pioneerplanet.com/news/mtc_docs/029005.htm


Okay, I'm finally getting around to dealing with some of the email messages
that have come it this week.  I had many conversations with Mayor Coleman
and his campaign beginning with my letter (copy attached) that I wrote the
night, last March when we first learned we may have a real problem.
Although the Mayor had refused to sign some Pride proclamations, something
about an issue with transsexual or transgender, he was a regular attender of
such events as the annual HRC dinner.

Everyone I talked with would tell me that the Mayor isn't a bigot.  This
included his campaign managers, staff members and appointees of Governor
Carlson and others who know the Mayor.  I really believe that he isn't a
bigot and said something stupid to appease what one staffer referred to as
"the bigots in the party."  Unfortunately the bigots control much of the
Republican Party of Minnesota.

While I may have preferred that Coleman go to a primary had he not obtained
the endorsement (which I think he would have gotten anyway), that wasn't a
realistic option.  The state party leadership was set on having a meaningful
endorsement come out of the state convention and avoiding a primary and many
of these people were leaders in the Coleman campaign.  This folks was an
improvement as the Quist types had lost much of their control over the state
party.  Quist was seeking the endorsement as was Lt. Gov. JoAnn Benson.  Our
Senate District 60 delegates were fairly solidly in the Coleman camp, our
nominating committee (whose nominations are virtually always elected) had
met prior to any statements that even suggested a problem.  (I wasn't on the
nominating committee as I had limited myself to appointing it and providing
my living room as a place for it to meet).  Basically I think Norm got stuck
and listened to some bad advice.

Fast forward to this week when announcing his Deputy Mayor appointment he
said: ``I believe in recognizing people for their talent and competency.
Susan Kimberly is a very able and talented public servant."  Unfortunately
there are many who will make such choices on a basis other than competency.
This appointment may well be very helpful for some other reasons.  The
so-called Minnesota Family Council is going to make a major effort to exempt
schools from the state Human Rights Act.  MFC is motivated by 2 transsexual
teachers in Minnesota, a librarian and an art or music teacher, one in a
Minneapolis High School and the other in a suburban Middle School.  This
very visible appointment by their (former?) poster boy will take the wind
out of their sales.

We  can educate the Mayor and we will see his name on  a future ballot.


-----Original Message-----
From: CEserman@... <CEserman@...>
To: c-mehler@... <c-mehler@...>; PaulAlanW@...
<PaulAlanW@...>; tlind@... <tlind@...>;
terrell.brown@... <terrell.brown@...>; Todd.5@...
<Todd.5@...>; REMAXJDK@... <REMAXJDK@...>; bspivey@...
<bspivey@...>; trussell@... <trussell@...>;
darren@... <darren@...>; CLamon58@...
<CLamon58@...>; jasonalan@... <jasonalan@...>
Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 9:45 AM
Subject: Fwd: St. Paul: Anti-gay mayor appoints transgender deputy mayor


>This is our region.  Does anyone in the Minneapolis area have more to share
>with the rest of the region?
>
>CLIFF
>


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Hi Cliff:

Please join (and post) to MN Logcabin.

To join, send a blank message to:

mn-logcabin-subcribe@egroups.com

You can read the messages on the web:

http://www.egroups.com/lists/mn-logcabin.

Look forward to seeing you on the 5th.

Eva
Eva Young


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----------
From: Doug Case <Doug.Case@...>
To: queerpolitics@...
Subject: CFV loses round, violates campaign rules
Date: Friday, December 18, 1998 12:49 AM

Colorado Springs Independent, December 16, 1998


CFV loses round, violates campaign rules
      Colorado for Family Values this week failed to gather enough
signatures
to call for a special election to alter the city’s zero-tolerance
resolution
denouncing discrimination against anyone, including gays and lesbians.
      And, the group that opposes giving gays and lesbians equal rights
violated the city’s campaign rules in the process.
      According to City Clerk Kathryn Young, the group did not register with
her office – nor has it listed the names of its campaign contributors or
expenditures, as required by law.  Young said she sent CFV a letter two
weeks
ago reminding them they must list the campaign’s donors and expenses, she
said.
      If CFV does not comply, the group could face fines equal to double the
amount they spent on their anti-zero-tolerance campaign – or charges from
the
district attorney’s office.
      On Monday, CFV Executive Director Paul Jessen said Young’s letter was
the
"first I’d heard about it," claiming that the city clerk’s office never
informed CFV of the campaign- disclosure laws.  Jessen said the group will
file a report but is not giving it top priority.
      "Christmas is coming up, and I plan to celebrate the birth of our Lord
Jesus in style," he said.
      However, Frank Whitworth, a gay activist and member of the group
Springs
Together, which organized to oppose CFV’s efforts, was critical of Jessen’s
claims of ignorance.  After all, Whitworth noted, CFV sponsored Amendment 2
in
1992, a statewide initiative prohibiting gays and lesbians from seeking
equal-
rights protection that has since been ruled unconstitutional.  CFV has also
been active in other political campaigns, including an Amendment 2-like law
passed by Cincinnati voters in 1994.
      During both campaigns, CFV has resisted efforts to force them to
disclose
the names of their campaign contributors.  Lower courts have ruled that CFV
must make the information public; however, the Colorado Springs group has
appealed to higher courts.
      "Why do they have to hide?" Whitworth asked.  "What’s wrong with
them?"
      Young said that Springs Together registered with the city as a
political
group earlier this month.
      During its press conference at city hall on Monday, Jessen said his
group
gathered 10,302 signatures to challenge the city’s policy, short by about
783
names of making the ballot.  CFV Chairman Will Perkins took credit for
"poor
judgment" by not calling more public attention to their drive.
      "That was a tactical error," he said.
      But, Jessen said, the group doesn’t plan to back down and will
announce
another campaign next month.  He declined to detail the group’s next move
but
suggested it will work to get several members of the Colorado Springs City
Council thrown out of office during next April’s election.
      None of the members of the City Council, which unanimously passed the
resolution in May 1997, attended CFV’s press conference.  Mayor Mary Lou
Makepeace, who initially defended the resolution, has remained mum over the
group’s efforts to clarify the wording of the resolution.
– Cara DeGette
      [Frank Whitworth is online at fww@... ]

************************************************************************
This message has been distributed as a free, nonprofit informational
service, to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this
information for non-profit research and educational purposes only.   Please
do not publish, or post in a public place on the Internet, copyrighted
material without permission and attribution.  (Note:  Press releases are
fine to reprint.  Don't reprint wire stories, such as Associated Press
stories, in their entirety unless you subscribe to that wire service.)
Forwarding of this material should not necessarily be construed as an
endorsement of the content.  In fact, sometimes messages from anti-gay
organizations are forwarded as "opposition research."

----------

............................................................................
                             The Coyle Connection

  ____    Send discussion items to: Coyle-Discussion@...
  \  /       Send action alerts to: Coyle-Alert@...
   \/           Questions/comments? CoyleLGTB@...
............................................................................



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Hi Folks:

MN Log Cabin is in MN Spin!

Here's the scoop, quoted from MN Spin:

Thanks Terrell for getting us some publicity.  We are hardly off the ground, and
folks are interested.

Pass the word on, let folks know about this mailing list.

And please post your thoughts and hopes for what you want MN Log Cabin to be, on
the list.

A bunch of us met last night at UnCommon Ground.

Also, for those of you who just got added to the list, can you comment on those
list guidelines.  They are in draft stage--and maybe we can all figure out how
we want the list to be run.

Eva
Eva Young

From MN Spin

            http://MN-Politics.com/mn-spin/

            Gay Minnesota Republicans?


The phrase won't throw you for a loop if you're an octogenarian. But otherwise?
Wait one second. You can’t be gay and a Minnesota Republican, can you? You can
if Terrell Brown has anything to say
about it. Brown, the Republican party chair of Senate District 60, is starting a
Minnesota chapter of the national Republican gay and lesbian group, the Log
Cabin Republicans. Brown estimates the group will start out as a political and
social organization of about 25-30 people.

An active Netizen, he plans to leverage the Net to organize the Log Cabin
Republicans through listserves and other means. Brown admitted that there were
Republicans that he wouldn’t support but also said he did a fair amount of work
on the campaign of Republican Sheryl Ramstad Hvass for County Attorney.

The Log Cabin Republicans are not new to Minnesota. A group formed a few years
ago but withered for lack of leadership. Brown
says that he has no immediate plans to start a state-level PAC.

Readers can e-mail Brown for more information.

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:56:05 -0600
From: Steve Labinski <labinski@...>
Reply-To: lcr-chat@...
To: "'lcr-chat@...'" <lcr-chat@...>
Subject: RELEASE: Log Cabin Denounces Anti-Gay Foster Parent Bill


December 16, 1998

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Steve Labinski
Phone: 512-482-8064

Log Cabin Denounces Anti-Gay Foster Parent Bill
Bill Hurts GOP in Future Elections

The Log Cabin Republicans today denounced HB 415, a bill that excludes all
gays and lesbians from serving as a foster parent in Texas, as motivated by
fear without any scientific basis.  The bill was filed by Rep. Robert
Talton (R, Pasadena), who currently serves as vice-chair of the House
Criminal Jurisprudence Committee.  "Talton's bill stereotype's all gays and
lesbians as unfit for serving as a foster parent.  It is sad that in 1999
someone believes that gays should be treated as second-class citizens,
unable to enjoy the same privileges as others simply because of who they
are," said LCR/Texas President Steve Labinski.

"Talton's bill is intellectually rooted in bigotry and irrational hatred
against people who happen to be gay.  It is contrary to traditional
Republican principles of equal treatment and opportunity by the law," said
Labinski.  Labinski also pointed out that asking every applicant their
sexual orientation amounts to a "witch hunt" by the state.

Labinski stated that filing such bills as "foolish and destructive for
Republicans who wish to maintain or broaden their appeal in future
elections."  He referred to recent New York Times exit polls which
determined that gay voters formed 4% of the total vote in the November
election, more then Jewish or Asian voters and almost identical to Hispanic
voters, who made up 5% of the total vote.  The Times poll also found that
gay voters gave 35% of their votes to the GOP.  "Shouldn't the Republican
Party be reaching out to all voters?  What is the point about advocating
bills that single out innocent groups for government-enforced
discrimination?" Labinski asked.

Labinski said that stopping the prohibiting gays and lesbians from adopting
children or serving as foster parents is the groups top legislative
priority in the coming legislative session.

"HB 415 is motivated by fear without any scientific basis.  Rep. Talton's
views are fortunately not shared by a growing number of Texans or
Republican voters, so we think that we can defeat them," said Labinski.

The Log Cabin Republicans is the nation's largest organization of gay and
lesbian Republicans with 10,000 members nationwide.  The group has active
chapters in Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston.




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On the first line of the message type the words unsubscribe lcr-chat


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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:45:28 -0600
From: Beth Zemsky <zemsk002@...>
To: glbt-l@...
Subject: Matthew Shepard Foundation Formed

Rocky Mountain News, December 14, 1998
Denver, Colorado
( http://insidedenver.com  )

Shepard Foundation seeks end to hatred
Family honors son slain in Wyoming
By Kevin McCullen, News Staff Writer

      The family of Matthew Shepard has formed a foundation in the name of
the slain University of Wyoming student to help people "embrace and
rejoice in diversity."
      Shepard, 21, was beaten, tied to a fence and left to die after
leaving a Laramie bar with his accused assailants on the night of Oct. 6.
Shepard, who was gay, died of his injuries several days later at Poudre
Valley Hospital in Fort Collins.
      His beating and death, which drew nationwide attention, brought an
outpouring of offers of financial help to his family and thousands of
letters or e-mails of condolence.  A memorial fund was established.
      Judy Shepard, his mother, said in a statement last week that the
family created the foundation "to help people abandon ignorance, prejudice
and hate. The foundation will be dedicated to the principle of helping
people move beyond tolerance to embrace and rejoice in diversity.
      "The energy and resources of the Matthew Shepard Foundation, in
conjunction with the Matthew Shepard Memorial Fund, will be devoted to
public awareness and education programs to ensure that what Matt lived for
and believed in will help others believe as well," said the statement,
which was posted on the hospital's Web site.
      "We hope that many will share their efforts and their resources so
that many may share Matt's vision:  Life is precious; we can work together
to help each life have meaning and dignity," she said.
      Donations to the foundation can be made through the First National
Bank of Wyoming, 2020 Grand Ave., Laramie, WY 82070.  The Shepards also
said they will have a Web site in February.
      A judge in Laramie has set trial dates next year for the two men
accused of killing Shepard.



Beth Zemsky, Director
Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender Programs Office
University of Minnesota
340 Coffman Union
300 Washington Avenue S.E.
Minneapolis, MN  55455
phone: 612-624-4461 or 612-626-2324
fax: 612-626-0909
email: zemsk002@...
web:  www.umn.edu/glbt

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Hi Folks:

The discussion about Log Cabin Priorities has been interesting.  It brings out
that folks have different opinions about ENDA.  I have been quite impressed with
the arguments against ENDA.  As I understand the argument, putting political
capital into passing ENDA will just pass a bad law, that won't stop any
institutional antigay discrimination--such as that in the Scouts, in Churches,
and
in the Military.  So what we are essentially working for is a law that covers
organizations that already have antidiscrimination policies in place.

Interesting argument.  It is certainly worth debating this type of thing at
places
such as the Creating Change conference.  This argument makes some sense to
me--but
I also do think there is some use to having antidiscrimination laws.  This is
certainly a point worth discussing more--not just within Log Cabin, but in the
larger Gay Community.

This is why I joined Log Cabin.  I think of Log Cabin performing an education
function.  This goes both ways--

1.  Educating the Congresscritters and Senators about Gay Issues.
2.  Educating the larger Gay Community about Congressional and Senatorial
records.

I really think that most people can be educated.  Only the most hard core and
zany
theocrats are really hopeless.  And, as I've said before they do serve a
purpose:
they have some shock and entertainment value.  It is especially effective I
think
to contrast Log Cabin's appropriate and intelligent behavior with the zany
rantings of the theocrats.

History lesson wanted here:  Was the 1992 presidential convention held in
Dallas?
The one where Pat Buchanan made his infamous speech.  As I recall, Log Cabin was
at it's most effective.  Rich Tafel responded to antigay hatred with a calm and
reasonable demeanor.

Then fast forward to this year.  A raucus antigay republican convention in
Texas.
More bad PR for the state.

It is really too bad.  I hear anti-Texas comments regularly living here in MN.
And I don't think they are fair.  When I went to the 1987 March on Washington, I
was struck by the fact that the second largest delegation was from Texas.  It
really made me rethink some of perceptions about the state.

I do think the Theocrats are giving the lone star state a bad name.  Do you
think
da Gub is beginning to realize that?  The person who wrote me about the Boy
Scouts
issue said that probably this Boy Scout Policy would have changed a long time
ago
if the Scouts weren't incorporated in Texas.  I'm not so sure of that.

Someone had commented that Barbara Bush was very good on these issues.  That is
very true, she is.  The head of Parents and Friends of Gays and Lesbians wrote
Mrs. Bush a letter.  Mrs. Bush wrote a warm letter back, where she expressed the
need for parents to support their children, whether they are gay or straight.
This naturally drove the zany element crazy.  Interestingly enough, Barbara
became
the more popular Bush when Bush ran in 1992.

Now it seems that the North Carolina Republican Party is competing to become
known
as the smallest tent republican party.

What is the term for the North Carolina strain of Theocrat?  In MN, they are
known
as Quistanistas, or Quistians.

Eva
Eva Young
eyoung@...
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."

Visit my niece Celia's Way Cool Web Hangout!
http://www.usucceed.com/celia/

Mailing Lists:

Minnesota Log Cabin Mailing List
http://www.egroups.com/mn-logcabin/

SodomList:
http://www.egroups.com/sodomlist/
Discussion of Sodmy repeal strategy.  Open to those of all political
persuasions.

Comments are appreciated about the name of this list.

Minnesota Political Discussion Lists:
Minnesota Politics:
Moderator:  Mick Souder
http://www.egroups.com/list/mn-politics/

Ventura Interactive:
Moderator:  John Birrenbach
http://www.egroups.com/list/venturaactive/

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Hi Folks:

You just wrote a great mn-logcabin rant--and you want a wider
readership--what do you do?

You can index your rant in the search engines.  If you choose the Subject
Line strategically, and put some keywords at the front of the message,
your rant will get retrieved when folks search on the keywords you use in
the title beginning of the rant.

Most search engines allow you to add your web page to the search engines.
Since mn-logcabin messages go to a web viewable archive, what you are
doing by posting, is becoming an instant web publisher--and putting your
rant on the web.

Well now, you want others to come visit.

You can find a list of search engine launching points here:

	 http://www.usucceed.com/usucceed/searchlaunch.htm

1.  Visit the web archive of mn-logcabin at:

	 http://www.egroups.com/list/mn-logcabin/

2.  View your rant.  In this example, you would go to:
	 http://www.egroups.com/lists/mn-logcabin/

3.  Click on an interesting rant.

4.  Capture the rant's URL--to do this, right click in the rant frame--and
choose "open frame in new window"--this is if you are using Netscape
Navigator.   If you are using explorer, I'm not sure exactly what to do--I
rarely use explorer.

5.  You will open up the rant in its own window.

6.  Copy the URL of the rant from the location window.

7.  Go to the altavista add url page:

	 http://www.altavista.com/av/content/addurl.htm

8.  Paste your rant's URL where indicated on the form.  The altavista
robot will index your rant--the full text of it.

Strategically titling your rants can help people to find information about
candidates you support--and oppose.  For example, if you want to rant
about Trent Lott, you can use a subject line like:  Trent Lott, Gays and
Kleptomaniacs.

When folks search altavista for information about Trent Lott--your rant
will be retrieved.  Your article on Trent Lott will also be retrieved if
people are looking for information on Kleptomaniacs, or Gays.

You can do this with other search engines also.

Cool huh?

Almost Instant Web Publishing.

Eva

Eva C. Young
eyoung@...


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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:49:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Eva Young <eyoung@...>
To: editor@...
Subject: Letter to the editor: OutFront Minnesota Analysis

Dear Editor:

OutFront Minnesota Analyis published in your
December 4, 1998 issue states:

"A note of caution, however, must be made in that one of the state's
leading anti-gay extremists, Rep. Steve Sviggum (R), will be the new
Speaker of the House."

Sviggum may have an antigay history.  I'm not familiar with the details.
However, I read in the Strib that he and his deputy are planning on
avoiding social issues in the republican agenda.  I assume this means
abortion and repealing the Human Rights Act.  I hope OutFront does try to
meet with Sviggum because as speaker, in some ways his constituency is
statewide, and it is not only republicans.

I'd like to urge open mindedness in dealing with Sviggum rather than
assuming he will pursue an antigay agenda.

OutFront continues:

"We can expect that the next two years will see renewed and increased
attacks on the GLBT community under his leadership.  In addition, it will
more difficult for the next two years to make further progress on GLBT
human rights in Minnesota. Nevertheless, OutFront Minnesota is dedicated
to working in cooperation with mainstream Republicans and DFLers to
guarantee the survival of the 1993 Human Rights Amendment and to pursue
human rights issues in Minnesota wherever possible."

Bullshit!  I'd assume that the republicans have no desire to repeal the
Human Rights Law--this election locally, and nationally has shown them
this is a losing strategy.  The polls show the public is on the side of
nondiscrimination in employment, but are against gay marriage.  GLBT
voters who voted for Carlson in 1990 and 1994 voted AGAINST Norm Coleman
in this election.  Sviggum is not stupid.  This is an issue that divides
his party.  He doesn't want to deal with it.

I recently had an interesting discussion with a self professed member of
the Christian Coalition.  (This was on the MN politics list).  This person
actually agreed with me that the sodomy law should be repealed.  The point
I'm making is, I would never have expected a Christian Coaltion member to
be opposed to sodomy laws.  I think it is important to avoid assuming that
republicans (even those who have some antigay history) are necessarily
hostile to nondiscrimination policy as it regards gays and lesbians--or
for that matter that these people all favor the sodomy law. After all if a
self professed member of the religious right agrees that sodomy laws
should be repealed, then it would seem that we could fight and win this
battle in the legislature.

I'd suggest repealing the Sodomy Law in MN be put on the OutFront
legislative agenda.  Why:  the worst that can happen is the law won't be
repealed. Also, if the bill gets introduced, Family Council resources will
be devoted to maintaining the sodomy law.  This is much better than having
them devote resources elsewhere.  It also makes them look stupid if they
are defending the sodomy law.  It's a PR plus for the gay community--and a
PR minus for the Family Council.

Who was it who said  the best defense is a good offense?

I pledge $50.00 to OutFront for lobbying.  I'll send OutFront a $25.00
check for Christmas, then send another $25.00 at the end of the
session if the sodomy law is repealed.   If the sodomy law does not get
repealed, I won't give them the second $25.00.  Call this a "challenge
grant."

I've given the Human Rights Campaign $50.00 this year.  I'll give them
another $50.00 at the end of 1999 if ENDA gets passed.

Eva
Eva Young
3424 Park Av S
Mpls., MN  55407

825-2958 (h)  624-4372 (w)

Please include my name, but not address and phone when publishing this
letter.  thanks,  Eva




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a repost from lcr-chat@...

Eva

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:24:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Eva Young <eyoung@...>
To: lcr-chat@...
Subject: Re: Anderson to Carruthers to Sviggum

Hi Terrell:

> Sviggum even mentioned was "partial birth" abortion.  He (and others) talked
> about inclusiveness.  This is a big change from even a year ago.  One thing
> Sviggum isn't is a Quistian and the Quistian group seems to be losing some
> of its pull (should I say strangle hold?) as even many relatively
> conservative folk are learning that such extremism just doesn't work.  I am
> more optomistic now than I have been for a number or years.

This is great.
>
> >I'd heard from OutFront (Mn Gay org) that Sviggum had in the last session
> >made lots of
> >nasty little efforts to attach homophobic riders on bills, he pushed DOMA
> >a lot, and I think was involved with the 4H bill (saying the University
> >couldn't enforce it's antidiscrimination policy).  I'm not involved
> >closely enough--so don't know for sure.
>
>
> I don't want to try to defend someone for doing something dumb here, but I
> think we will see a positive change in what someone did as leader of the
> minority caucus to his actions as speaker.  He has put a number of good
> moderates in key committee chair positions (Peggy Leppik for Higher
> Education immediately comes to mind).  Also, for the most part the new
> legislators, are not social conservatives, but folks that got elected with a
> less government, less tax message.
>
Yes--Peggy Leppik
> The OutFront political staff is tied in strongly with the DFL, lobbiest
> Scott Cooper even ran the Mayor's last campaign.  They have some real strong
> party bias in most of the things they say.  With the new party alignment in
> the Governor's office and the House, they will need to change some of these
> biases to be effective.  They can't rely entirely on being effective in the
> Senate which is now the only place controlled by the DFL.
>
That is nice to know.  I won't waste my money contributing to them.  It
seems that their lobby strategy will be to maintain the Human Rights Act.
This isn't worth paying a lobbyist for.

I'd say repeal of the sodomy law should be on the list.  I'm planning on
writing my legislator:  Democrat Linda Wejcman in the house, and Democrat
Linda Berglin in the Senate on this issue.  They have both said they
support sodomy law repeal.

However, I think what would piss DFL folks off royally, is if a republican
stepped up to the plate and introduced sodomy law repeal in MN.  David
Bishop comes to mind as one republican who might do something like that.
You have more connections with republican legislators.

> >Are there other MN folks on this list?  Maybe we should try to get a
> >meeting with Speaker Sviggum.
>
>
> I think he would be receptive to that.  I'm not sure that he really
> understands these issues and for the most part is hearing from the wrong
> people.  I would like to participate in such a meeting.
>
That was my thought.  If he understood the issues better, he might become
a very good speaker for the gay community.  It would also make the
Democrats have to compete on the merits of their candidates, rather than
by saying the republicans are Quistians.

Eva
Eva Young
eyoung@...


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Hi Folks:

This is a repost from lcr-chat.

Eva
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:49:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Eva Young <eyoung@...>
To: Rob Blanchard <robokieb@...>
Cc: lcr-chat@...
Subject: Minnesota Republican History:  A Cautionary Tale

Hi Folks:

Interesting that you folks in Texas refer to the wacko element in the
republican party as the theocrats.  (or theorepublicans).

Here in Minnesota, I've heard them referred to as Quistians.

Allen Quist ran for republican endorsement--and got it, against Arne
Carlson.  Arne creamed him in the republican primary--with the help of
lots of Democratic crossover vote.

Allen Quist was very wierd.  When his first wife died (in a car accident),
she was 7 months pregnant.  At the funeral, I believe, he displayed her
holding the fetus.  At first, I thought this story was too wierd to be
true--but then the newspapers did report on this--so there must be some
truth to it--so I'm passing it on.

Quist had his hands in this election too:  He forced moderate candidate
Norm Coleman to agree to sign legislation that would repeal gay rights.

This allowed democrats to, fairly in my opinion, paint Norm Coleman as an
Allen Quist puppet.  Ted Mondale even had an attack ad on Coleman before
the primary based on this theme.  I certainly told folks I knew, I thought
Coleman would dance to Quistian melodies.

In 1994, when Quist was running against Carlson, one of his ads featured
Clinton and Carlson dancing together.  He included the rediculous claim
that Carlson favored abortion to the 9th month of pregnancy.

Carlson's comment on the ad:  "I'm a better dancer than the person in the
ad."

When Quist was asked on almanac (public affairs show on public
TV)--whether the ad intended to suggest something about Carlson's progay
stances--Quist smirked, and agreed that the ad did have that as part of
it's intent.

Carlson had very hard hitting ads on Quist.  Quist had made a statement
about women's "genetic dispositions."  Carlson quoted this--and the ad
ended with:  say YES to Carlson, NO to Quist.

Carlson won the primary.  Sharon Anderson won the IR primary for one of
the other constitutional offices.  Sharon Anderson was NOT the republican
endorsed candidate--she was just rather deranged.  (Not a Quistian--just a
common variety nutcase).  This really embarrassed the GOP.

Lesson in all this:

Carlson distanced himself from the republican party--and never got their
endorsement--and became governor twice.  Coleman sold his sole to get
republican endorsement--and he lost.

The GOP should be paying Log Cabin for political consulation.  Do you
think they are smart enough?

Eva
Eva Young
eyoung@...

p.s.  Does anyone else think Gary Bauer looks rather like a toad?  (Or a
troll?)

p.p.s.  Did anyone else see the interview where Gary Bauer was saying:
Matthew Shepherd's murderers weren't christians, they were thugs.  Reminds
me of Nixon's famous:  I am not a crook statement.

p.p.p.s.  I always like Jocelyn Elder's term "Unchristian
Right."  If Clinton had followed her advice rather than firing her, he
wouldn't be in the hot water he is in now.





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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Terrell Brown
December 11, 1998
(612) 371-3014

MINNESOTA GAY REPUBLICAN GROUP TO ORGANIZE

An organizational meeting will be held at 7:00 p.m. on Tuesday January 5, 1999
in the Party Room of One Ten Grant Apartments, 110 West Grant Street in
Minneapolis for all persons interested in forming a Minnesota Chapter of Log
Cabin Republicans. Log Cabin Republicans is the nation's largest gay and lesbian
Republican organization, with over 50 chapters across the country, a national
office staff, and a federal PAC which raises $100,000 per election cycle for
Republican candidates.

In announcing the meeting, Terrell Brown, Chair of the Senate District 60
Republicans and one of the hosts of the meeting said;  "If you're Gay and a
Republican, you have two choices today. You can run and hide, or you can stand
and fight. Forming a Minnesota Log Cabin chapter enables Minnesotans to join the
struggle for an inclusive Republican Party and a better, brighter future."

In encouraging attendance he continued,  "By joining the most dynamic national
gay and lesbian organization in America, you will be making a tremendous
difference in the struggle to build a better future for our community. You'll be
joining people like yourself who know that political victories are not won from
the sidelines, or from the closet. We can only move ahead when both political
parties take up our concerns."

Anyone desiring additional information should call (612) 371-3014.

  Refreshments will be served.

                     - 30 -
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