MARCH frequently asked questions -- last updated 3/30/2006

1. What is MARCH?

MARCH is a user group for people who enjoy using antique/vintage computers.  Our
name is an acronym for Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists.  Our club's legal
name has an "Inc." on the end because we're incorporated as a non-profit group.

2. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between Connecticut and Virginia, yet I never
heard of you before.

That's because we are relatively new.  We began in early 2005 as a Yahoo
discussion group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/), became an
informal club in the springtime, and didn't become a legal entity until late in
the year.  Now it's 2006 and our ship is moving at full-steam!  We also have a
web site which is VERY under contruction.  It's at both www.midatlanticretro.org
and www.marchclub.org.

3. So I have to live in the Mid-Atlantic part of the U.S. to join?

Nope.  That description just conveys where our members and activities are
concentrated.  In fact, we have members from around the country.  We have a few
more in the extremes of New Hampshire, Pittsburgh, and the Carolinas.  But as I
said, we're mostly in a triangle between Connecticut, eastern Pennsylvania, and
Washington, D.C. ... our physical home is on the New Jersey shore.

4. Physical home?  Huh?

That's right, we have a home of sorts.  Our home is the InfoAge Learning Center
(www.infoage.org) which is a non-profit science museum currently under
construction.  MARCH is one of several groups residing there, and our job is to
run a computer museum on the premises.  We are making slow but steady progress
on that.

5. What else does MARCH do?

Lots of fun stuff.  The most visible thing we do is maintain our Yahoo
discussion group.  Activity-wise, our flagship event will be the Vintage
Computer Festival East.  Our first edition of that hobbyist convention (and the
third VCF East event overall) will be held Saturday, May 13, 2006 at the InfoAge
facility.  We also participate in the Trenton Computer Festival every April.
Once we make it through the VCF event, we'll start planning other events such as
a swap meet, regional gatherings, and perhaps a road trip.  We also offer an
online inventory database to help you (and us) keep track of our collections.

6. Okay, this all sounds interesting.  So by "antique/vintage" do you mean my
old Pentium II?

No, we mean your old Altair, Apple II, Commodore, DEC PDP-8, Epson HX-20,
HP-1000, IBM PC, KIM-1... we could go through the alphabet a couple times but we
think you get the idea by now.  We're interested in truly antique computers, not
merely "used" computers.

7. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's antique/vintage?

Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers" by Michael
Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go online anyway.  Check
out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the Vintage Computer Festival
(vintage.org); vintage-computer.com/vcforum, vintagecomputermarketplace.com,
old-computers.com; technologyrewind.com, and many, many, many others.  (If
you're interested in specific machines, just post your question to our
discussion list and we can refer you to the best sites.)

8. What's behind the scenes of this wacky endeavor?

We have some de facto officers; an official set of bylaws and all that boring
stuff is being worked on... we're just so busy having fun that we keep
procrastinating.  The officers (i.e., those who were suckered into the gig) are
Evan Koblentz (prez), Bill Degnan and Andy Meyer (VPs), Jim Scheef (treasurer),
and John Allain (web/museum helper-outer).  The five of us take care of
logistical crap so the members can have fun with everything else.

9. Members, hmm, is it like just you and two buddies?

We're much bigger than that!  As of spring 2006, we have three or four dozen
paid members, and 100+ on our discussion list.

10. Uh-oh, you said 'paid'... is that the catch?

Sort of.  We realized early on that running a real club takes some money.  To
help raise money, we ask members for a $20 donation or a board-approved
alternative.  For now, alternatives include giving us good-quality folding
tables, doing some kind of work for our club which we'd otherwise have to pay
for, or being a minor. Anyway, this $20 situation is supposed to be a one-time
deal, but in real life, it may become an annual deal.  But fear not: nobody *
has to * contribute anything.  We offer some perks from time to time for the
paid members, but anyone can still participate in our group.  Basically we're a
lot like shareware -- if you like what we do, then please help us pay our bills.
Of course, donations larger than $20 are always welcome, as are donations of
antique computers and various supplies for our museum.

11. So the club is entirely member-supported?

We raise money in other ways as well.  For example, in the past we've rented
some antique computers to film companies as props, and we hope to make a few
dollars from hosting the Vintage Computer Festival and other events.  In our
museum, we'll also sell t-shirts and such.

12. I have some other question not on this FAQ.

Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message boards or
pinging me (evan@...) ... ask us anything, we're not shy!  (And moreover,
unlike some computer clubs, we're not cliquey.  All are welcome here!)

13. What else should I know before diving in to MARCH?

If you're a nerd who thinks really old computers and their related technologies
were cool, then give MARCH a chance.  You'll be glad you did.  Also, if you were
wondering, we're NOT a bunch of old farts who sit around and whine about how
much better things used to be.  Quite the contrary: we're a lot of young and
mid-life farts who ... ooooh maybe we said too much.  :)

----- Original Message -----

From: Evan Koblentz

To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:41 PM

Subject: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

Hi guys, I haven’t got anything to do this Saturday so I might go work at the museum.  Anybody want to join me for an informal work day on the MARCH rooms?

----- Original Message -----

From: Evan Koblentz

To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:58 PM

Subject: [!! SPAM] RE: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

Rich,

Welcome to MARCH.  How did you find out about us?  What’s your background with computers and collecting?

Usually our work days go from around 10:30am until the late afternoon / early evening.  Since you’re new here, when you arrive at the museum, you’d get a full behind-the-scenes tour.

Our group is just one of a dozen or so based at the InfoAge Science Center.  We have three areas on the campus: a small, public “preview” exhibit room; a secure storage room; and one half of an entire wing that will be our real museum space for the next few years.

That last part – our long-term museum space – is where we’re currently focusing our renovation work.  About 95% of the work is done by us – “us” all being volunteers, even the InfoAge CEO and everyone involved.  The only paid work is for professional subcontractors, i.e., we recently got a new roof installed onto our long-term area.  The InfoAge organization paid for that because it’s a major expense.

What I’d like to start this weekend, which I planned but didn’t get to last weekend, is to scrape a bunch of old lead-based paint off the walls of our future entranceway.  For this task, we’ll wear duskmasks, and Fred (aforementioned InfoAge CEO) advised me that we should also wet down the paint with a spray bottle before scraping it off.  Another day, once the old lobby paint is gone, we can repaint it.

Not much fun, huh?

Honestly, it IS fun.  We get to delete decades of worn-out paint and restore the original walls in that building, which was constructed during WWII.  This may sound corny but I find this hugely satisfying.

Or, if scraping paint isn’t your thing, then we have plenty of other such tasks.  Some are MARCH-specific, many more are general InfoAge tasks, but they all need doing.

And of course, sometimes we take breaks to eat and tinker with our massive collection of vintage computers.

- Evan

-----Original Message-----
From: Troposphere [mailto:troposphere@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:47 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

I'm interested in finding out what's involved.  What is needed?

During what hours is it needed?

Regards,
Rich Solomon
troposphere@comcast.net

----- Original Message -----

From: Evan Koblentz

To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:41 PM

Subject: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

Hi guys, I haven’t got anything to do this Saturday so I might go work at the museum.  Anybody want to join me for an informal work day on the MARCH rooms?

There is no time quota.  Come help for an hour, two hours, a half-day, a full
day, weekend ... you get the idea.  Every block of help counts and we will be
grateful.  (Email me off-list if you wish to discuss specifics, etc. -
evank@...)

-----Original Message-----
From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:17 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Very cool find!

Evan and all,

Well, it says its a bill for 84 hours at night and 95 hours of daytime use of the Moore School's differential analyzer (a type of analog calculating device produced in the late 30's). It has nothing to do with the ENIAC or even with actual computers, but is cool none the less. It makes sense that people at Fort Monmouth (and Camp Evans) would need to solve large differential equations in their research and development activities and a differential analyzer would be way faster than mechanical desk calculators! The date is in 1947, after ENIAC had been announced to the public. I wonder how much the Moore School charged for time on the ENIAC.

Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2007 12:39:55 AM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Very cool find!

Gang,

 

Check out the file called “contract.jpg” in the files section of our Yahoo group.  Fred sent it to me tonight; I don’t know yet where he found it.  He said it’s probably not a bill for the ENIAC, but it’s from something very close on ENIAC’s heels.

 

I’ll see if we can get a large version of this and frame it for a museum display.

 

http://tinyurl.com/3bo8yn

 

- Evan

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Bill Sudbrink wrote:

> Basically, a differential analyzer is a very large slide rule.  Some good
> footage of one can be seen in the
> science fiction movie "When Worlds Collide".

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200208/history.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:KayMcNultyAlyseSnyderSisStumpDifferentialAnal\
yzer.jpg
http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/mauchly/jwm5.html

     ...and an excerpt from :

http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/61ordnance/chap1.html

"The Moore School of Electrical Engineering of the University of
Pennsylvania had a Bush Differential Analyzer of somewhat larger capacity
than the one at Aberdeen Proving Ground. It had fourteen integrating units
instead of ten. Therefore the Ordnance Department awarded a contract to
the University of Pennsylvania for the utilization of this device. Several
additional contracts were later awarded to the University to carry out
different phases of the increasingly important role which it was to play
in the computation activities of the Ordnance Department during the war.

Lt. P. N. Gillon, in his capacity as officer in charge of ballistic
computations, conferred frequently with Dean Pender, Professor Brainerd,
and their associates at the Moore School in order to effect proper
coordination of the computational work at the two localities, Philadelphia
and Aberdeen. There was a very talented group at the Moore School under
the direction of Professor Brainerd and as a result of Lt. Gillon's
discussions with them Assistant Professor Weygand undertook to develop an
electronic torque amplifier to replace the mechanical torque amplifiers on
the Bush Differential Analyzers. This work was eminently successful and,
in addition, photoelectric followers were developed by the Moore School
group for both the input and output tables of the analyzer. As a result of
these accomplishments the productive capacity of the analyzers at both the
Moore School and Aberdeen Proving Ground were enhanced by at least an
order of magnitude."


Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

Awesome information.  Thanks for checking into this, Mike.


> On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
>
>> Basically, a differential analyzer is a very large slide rule.  Some
>> good
>> footage of one can be seen in the
>> science fiction movie "When Worlds Collide".
>
> http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200208/history.cfm
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:KayMcNultyAlyseSnyderSisStumpDifferentialAnal\
yzer.jpg
> http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/mauchly/jwm5.html
>
>     ...and an excerpt from :
>
> http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/61ordnance/chap1.html
>
> "The Moore School of Electrical Engineering of the University of
> Pennsylvania had a Bush Differential Analyzer of somewhat larger capacity
> than the one at Aberdeen Proving Ground. It had fourteen integrating units
> instead of ten. Therefore the Ordnance Department awarded a contract to
> the University of Pennsylvania for the utilization of this device. Several
> additional contracts were later awarded to the University to carry out
> different phases of the increasingly important role which it was to play
> in the computation activities of the Ordnance Department during the war.
>
> Lt. P. N. Gillon, in his capacity as officer in charge of ballistic
> computations, conferred frequently with Dean Pender, Professor Brainerd,
> and their associates at the Moore School in order to effect proper
> coordination of the computational work at the two localities, Philadelphia
> and Aberdeen. There was a very talented group at the Moore School under
> the direction of Professor Brainerd and as a result of Lt. Gillon's
> discussions with them Assistant Professor Weygand undertook to develop an
> electronic torque amplifier to replace the mechanical torque amplifiers on
> the Bush Differential Analyzers. This work was eminently successful and,
> in addition, photoelectric followers were developed by the Moore School
> group for both the input and output tables of the analyzer. As a result of
> these accomplishments the productive capacity of the analyzers at both the
> Moore School and Aberdeen Proving Ground were enhanced by at least an
> order of magnitude."
>
>
> Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
> Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

Just woke up, so close to noon.

10 will not happen, I just woke up.

Thanks for the tip.

Not entirely correct, there is a phone in the gift shop / office in the hotel.

Just got home.  Joe and I worked our butts off today.  Details to follow...

<snip>
>
> That's all for now.  I feel a HUGE sense of community accomplishment,
> now that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Comments /
> questions are highly encouraged.  (For the 19 millionth time: this is
> YOUR club, not mine.)
>
> - Evan
>


Excellent...I am sure I speak for the whole group - Thank you guys!  I
will try to come on the 25th, if I can.
Bill

-END-

> Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the
> metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.

Wuss. Let me know whenyou have to deal with paint that comes in eight
inch incements.

> We considered using a belt sander (while we'd wear respirators), and/or using
an
> industrial solvent of some kind, but I spoke with Fred yesterday and again
today,
> and he said "no way" to those ideas.  He assures me that new paint designed to
> adhere to metal, i.e. Rustoleum, while work a lot better than I expect.  And
he says
> that choosing the right color, such as dark green or blue, will cover up most
of the
> bumpy areas where old paint is still underneath.

The best way to remove paint, in my opinion, is still an old triangle
shaped chipper (other shapes are available), or the "green"
environmentally freindly goops. Stay away from the nasty petrochemical
things of old - they work, but leave such a mess, and you slowly die..
When you have a lot of time (a couple of days) and large flat expanses
(like on a door), the green goop is pretty great.

I am currently (always?) restoring a house from 1776, with my cousin
(half owner of the house) being a classcially trained archiologist
often looking over my shoulder, so I get to do a LOT of very proper
paint removal.

A standard chipper, with a *light* touch, can do wonders. Make sure
the blades are SHARP. Yes, there will be some damage to the wood, but
nothing a little steam or filler can not fix. And with metal? No big
deal, unless you are Hercules. When you strip, you MUST strip it all.
Modern paints WILL NOT hide half stripped areas. Nothing will. If you
chip, be prepared to chip it ALL, or be skilled at filling and sanding
the transition zone, so the differences in the paint will be hidden.

Dark colors are better than light colors for hiding flaws, but better
yet is the lustre of the paint - the flatter the paint is, the more
sins are hidden. Unfortuneately, flat paints tend to look bad on
moulding and doorframes, so pick something middle of the road -
semi-gloss.

I am still a fan (and user) of oil paints (like Rustoleum), but unless
you realy know what you are doing, stick to latex. Good latex, as in
Baer or Benjamin Moore. WIth paint, you get what you pay for. And if
you must ue oils, used a Benjamin Moore oil. A few places will still
color match oils.

The choice is yours when it comes to painting. If you do a quick job,
you will need to do a quick repaint later. Do a very careful complete
job, and you can ignore it for years.

--
Will

>>> The best way to remove paint, in my opinion

Will, thanks for all this good advice.  I suspect that InfoAge's tool
edges are dull and haven't been replaced in eons.  Maybe I'll try again
with some new blades.

Or you could come visit and be as helpful as you were at VCF.  :)

- Evan

 

Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.  We removed the vast majority of the peeling paint, but there’s a LOT of non-peeling paint still there.  It seems to be a really massive challenge, time-wise, to remove all of that old paint.

>  You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a
blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can
scrape it off with a putty knife.

If the metal doorframes come anywhere near contact with wood, even
studs inside the walls, using a heat gun is ABSOLUTELY NOT
RECOMMENDED. The risk for fire is very large. If the metal doorframes
ONLY touch masonry, you can use a heat gun.

Heatguns are OK on wood, of course.

--
Will

> You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can scrape it off with a putty knife.

If the metal doorframes come anywhere near contact with wood, even
studs inside the walls, using a heat gun is ABSOLUTELY NOT
RECOMMENDED. The risk for fire is very large. If the metal doorframes
ONLY touch masonry, you can use a heat gun.

Heatguns are OK on wood, of course.

--
Will

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