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  • Members: 383
  • Category: Computers
  • Founded: Jan 17, 2005
  • Language: English
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#5898 From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2007 11:46 am
Subject: File - marchfaq.txt
midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Send Email Send Email
 
MARCH frequently asked questions -- last updated 3/30/2006

1. What is MARCH?

MARCH is a user group for people who enjoy using antique/vintage computers.  Our
name is an acronym for Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists.  Our club's legal
name has an "Inc." on the end because we're incorporated as a non-profit group.

2. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between Connecticut and Virginia, yet I never
heard of you before.

That's because we are relatively new.  We began in early 2005 as a Yahoo
discussion group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/), became an
informal club in the springtime, and didn't become a legal entity until late in
the year.  Now it's 2006 and our ship is moving at full-steam!  We also have a
web site which is VERY under contruction.  It's at both www.midatlanticretro.org
and www.marchclub.org.

3. So I have to live in the Mid-Atlantic part of the U.S. to join?

Nope.  That description just conveys where our members and activities are
concentrated.  In fact, we have members from around the country.  We have a few
more in the extremes of New Hampshire, Pittsburgh, and the Carolinas.  But as I
said, we're mostly in a triangle between Connecticut, eastern Pennsylvania, and
Washington, D.C. ... our physical home is on the New Jersey shore.

4. Physical home?  Huh?

That's right, we have a home of sorts.  Our home is the InfoAge Learning Center
(www.infoage.org) which is a non-profit science museum currently under
construction.  MARCH is one of several groups residing there, and our job is to
run a computer museum on the premises.  We are making slow but steady progress
on that.

5. What else does MARCH do?

Lots of fun stuff.  The most visible thing we do is maintain our Yahoo
discussion group.  Activity-wise, our flagship event will be the Vintage
Computer Festival East.  Our first edition of that hobbyist convention (and the
third VCF East event overall) will be held Saturday, May 13, 2006 at the InfoAge
facility.  We also participate in the Trenton Computer Festival every April.
Once we make it through the VCF event, we'll start planning other events such as
a swap meet, regional gatherings, and perhaps a road trip.  We also offer an
online inventory database to help you (and us) keep track of our collections.

6. Okay, this all sounds interesting.  So by "antique/vintage" do you mean my
old Pentium II?

No, we mean your old Altair, Apple II, Commodore, DEC PDP-8, Epson HX-20,
HP-1000, IBM PC, KIM-1... we could go through the alphabet a couple times but we
think you get the idea by now.  We're interested in truly antique computers, not
merely "used" computers.

7. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's antique/vintage?

Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers" by Michael
Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go online anyway.  Check
out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the Vintage Computer Festival
(vintage.org); vintage-computer.com/vcforum, vintagecomputermarketplace.com,
old-computers.com; technologyrewind.com, and many, many, many others.  (If
you're interested in specific machines, just post your question to our
discussion list and we can refer you to the best sites.)

8. What's behind the scenes of this wacky endeavor?

We have some de facto officers; an official set of bylaws and all that boring
stuff is being worked on... we're just so busy having fun that we keep
procrastinating.  The officers (i.e., those who were suckered into the gig) are
Evan Koblentz (prez), Bill Degnan and Andy Meyer (VPs), Jim Scheef (treasurer),
and John Allain (web/museum helper-outer).  The five of us take care of
logistical crap so the members can have fun with everything else.

9. Members, hmm, is it like just you and two buddies?

We're much bigger than that!  As of spring 2006, we have three or four dozen
paid members, and 100+ on our discussion list.

10. Uh-oh, you said 'paid'... is that the catch?

Sort of.  We realized early on that running a real club takes some money.  To
help raise money, we ask members for a $20 donation or a board-approved
alternative.  For now, alternatives include giving us good-quality folding
tables, doing some kind of work for our club which we'd otherwise have to pay
for, or being a minor. Anyway, this $20 situation is supposed to be a one-time
deal, but in real life, it may become an annual deal.  But fear not: nobody *
has to * contribute anything.  We offer some perks from time to time for the
paid members, but anyone can still participate in our group.  Basically we're a
lot like shareware -- if you like what we do, then please help us pay our bills.
Of course, donations larger than $20 are always welcome, as are donations of
antique computers and various supplies for our museum.

11. So the club is entirely member-supported?

We raise money in other ways as well.  For example, in the past we've rented
some antique computers to film companies as props, and we hope to make a few
dollars from hosting the Vintage Computer Festival and other events.  In our
museum, we'll also sell t-shirts and such.

12. I have some other question not on this FAQ.

Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message boards or
pinging me (evan@...) ... ask us anything, we're not shy!  (And moreover,
unlike some computer clubs, we're not cliquey.  All are welcome here!)

13. What else should I know before diving in to MARCH?

If you're a nerd who thinks really old computers and their related technologies
were cool, then give MARCH a chance.  You'll be glad you did.  Also, if you were
wondering, we're NOT a bunch of old farts who sit around and whine about how
much better things used to be.  Quite the contrary: we're a lot of young and
mid-life farts who ... ooooh maybe we said too much.  :)

#5899 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:41 am
Subject: This Saturday
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 

Hi guys, I haven’t got anything to do this Saturday so I might go work at the museum.  Anybody want to join me for an informal work day on the MARCH rooms?


#5900 From: "Troposphere" <troposphere@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:47 am
Subject: Re: This Saturday
troposphere2002
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm interested in finding out what's involved.  What is needed?
 
During what hours is it needed?
 
Regards,
Rich Solomon
troposphere@...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:41 PM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

Hi guys, I haven’t got anything to do this Saturday so I might go work at the museum.  Anybody want to join me for an informal work day on the MARCH rooms?


#5901 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 2:58 am
Subject: RE: This Saturday
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 

Rich,

 

Welcome to MARCH.  How did you find out about us?  What’s your background with computers and collecting?

 

Usually our work days go from around 10:30am until the late afternoon / early evening.  Since you’re new here, when you arrive at the museum, you’d get a full behind-the-scenes tour.

 

Our group is just one of a dozen or so based at the InfoAge Science Center.  We have three areas on the campus: a small, public “preview” exhibit room; a secure storage room; and one half of an entire wing that will be our real museum space for the next few years.

 

That last part – our long-term museum space – is where we’re currently focusing our renovation work.  About 95% of the work is done by us – “us” all being volunteers, even the InfoAge CEO and everyone involved.  The only paid work is for professional subcontractors, i.e., we recently got a new roof installed onto our long-term area.  The InfoAge organization paid for that because it’s a major expense.

 

What I’d like to start this weekend, which I planned but didn’t get to last weekend, is to scrape a bunch of old lead-based paint off the walls of our future entranceway.  For this task, we’ll wear duskmasks, and Fred (aforementioned InfoAge CEO) advised me that we should also wet down the paint with a spray bottle before scraping it off.  Another day, once the old lobby paint is gone, we can repaint it.

 

Not much fun, huh?

 

Honestly, it IS fun.  We get to delete decades of worn-out paint and restore the original walls in that building, which was constructed during WWII.  This may sound corny but I find this hugely satisfying.

 

Or, if scraping paint isn’t your thing, then we have plenty of other such tasks.  Some are MARCH-specific, many more are general InfoAge tasks, but they all need doing.

 

And of course, sometimes we take breaks to eat and tinker with our massive collection of vintage computers.

 

- Evan

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Troposphere [mailto:troposphere@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:47 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

 

I'm interested in finding out what's involved.  What is needed?

 

During what hours is it needed?

 

Regards,
Rich Solomon
troposphere@...

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:41 PM

Subject: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

 

Hi guys, I haven’t got anything to do this Saturday so I might go work at the museum.  Anybody want to join me for an informal work day on the MARCH rooms?


#5902 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 4:39 am
Subject: Very cool find!
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 

Gang,

 

Check out the file called “contract.jpg” in the files section of our Yahoo group.  Fred sent it to me tonight; I don’t know yet where he found it.  He said it’s probably not a bill for the ENIAC, but it’s from something very close on ENIAC’s heels.

 

I’ll see if we can get a large version of this and frame it for a museum display.

 

http://tinyurl.com/3bo8yn

 

- Evan


#5903 From: "Troposphere" <troposphere@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 4:43 am
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: This Saturday
troposphere2002
Send Email Send Email
 
Evan,
 
I learned about MARCH when I visited the Vintage Computer Expo event a couple of months ago.  You might recall me as the guy who said he had an old TI/99-4A computer and that I was disappointed not to find one on display.
 
My background is learning to program on the TI and TRS-80 line when I was in my early teens, and then I got my first PC in 1993.  I started professional programming with VB 3.0 and FoxPro 2.0 ( DOS ), and now I do C++, and .NET. 
 
I am generally good at working with my hands, and with hand tools. 
 
I would like to help and be a part of things, but I wouldn't feel comfortable committing a whole day right at the beginning.
 
Do you have a "beginner's program?"
 
Regards,
Rich Solomon
troposphere@...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:58 PM
Subject: [!! SPAM] RE: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

Rich,

Welcome to MARCH.  How did you find out about us?  What’s your background with computers and collecting?

Usually our work days go from around 10:30am until the late afternoon / early evening.  Since you’re new here, when you arrive at the museum, you’d get a full behind-the-scenes tour.

Our group is just one of a dozen or so based at the InfoAge Science Center.  We have three areas on the campus: a small, public “preview” exhibit room; a secure storage room; and one half of an entire wing that will be our real museum space for the next few years.

That last part – our long-term museum space – is where we’re currently focusing our renovation work.  About 95% of the work is done by us – “us” all being volunteers, even the InfoAge CEO and everyone involved.  The only paid work is for professional subcontractors, i.e., we recently got a new roof installed onto our long-term area.  The InfoAge organization paid for that because it’s a major expense.

What I’d like to start this weekend, which I planned but didn’t get to last weekend, is to scrape a bunch of old lead-based paint off the walls of our future entranceway.  For this task, we’ll wear duskmasks, and Fred (aforementioned InfoAge CEO) advised me that we should also wet down the paint with a spray bottle before scraping it off.  Another day, once the old lobby paint is gone, we can repaint it.

Not much fun, huh?

Honestly, it IS fun.  We get to delete decades of worn-out paint and restore the original walls in that building, which was constructed during WWII.  This may sound corny but I find this hugely satisfying.

Or, if scraping paint isn’t your thing, then we have plenty of other such tasks.  Some are MARCH-specific, many more are general InfoAge tasks, but they all need doing.

And of course, sometimes we take breaks to eat and tinker with our massive collection of vintage computers.

- Evan

-----Original Message-----
From: Troposphere [mailto:troposphere@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:47 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

I'm interested in finding out what's involved.  What is needed?

During what hours is it needed?

Regards,
Rich Solomon
troposphere@comcast.net

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:41 PM

Subject: [midatlanticretro] This Saturday

Hi guys, I haven’t got anything to do this Saturday so I might go work at the museum.  Anybody want to join me for an informal work day on the MARCH rooms?


#5904 From: "Evan" <evan@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 5:24 am
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: This Saturday
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
There is no time quota.  Come help for an hour, two hours, a half-day, a full
day, weekend ... you get the idea.  Every block of help counts and we will be
grateful.  (Email me off-list if you wish to discuss specifics, etc. -
evank@...)

#5905 From: Jim Scheef <jscheef@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: Very cool find!
jscheef
Send Email Send Email
 
Evan and all,

Well, it says its a bill for 84 hours at night and 95 hours of daytime use of the Moore School's differential analyzer (a type of analog calculating device produced in the late 30's). It has nothing to do with the ENIAC or even with actual computers, but is cool none the less. It makes sense that people at Fort Monmouth (and Camp Evans) would need to solve large differential equations in their research and development activities and a differential analyzer would be way faster than mechanical desk calculators! The date is in 1947, after ENIAC had been announced to the public. I wonder how much the Moore School charged for time on the ENIAC.

Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2007 12:39:55 AM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Very cool find!

Gang,

 

Check out the file called “contract.jpg” in the files section of our Yahoo group.  Fred sent it to me tonight; I don’t know yet where he found it.  He said it’s probably not a bill for the ENIAC, but it’s from something very close on ENIAC’s heels.

 

I’ll see if we can get a large version of this and frame it for a museum display.

 

http://tinyurl.com/3bo8yn

 

- Evan



#5906 From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:08 pm
Subject: RE: Very cool find!
bsudbrink
Send Email Send Email
 
Basically, a differential analyzer is a very large slide rule.  Some good footage of one can be seen in the
science fiction movie "When Worlds Collide".
-----Original Message-----
From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:17 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Very cool find!

Evan and all,

Well, it says its a bill for 84 hours at night and 95 hours of daytime use of the Moore School's differential analyzer (a type of analog calculating device produced in the late 30's). It has nothing to do with the ENIAC or even with actual computers, but is cool none the less. It makes sense that people at Fort Monmouth (and Camp Evans) would need to solve large differential equations in their research and development activities and a differential analyzer would be way faster than mechanical desk calculators! The date is in 1947, after ENIAC had been announced to the public. I wonder how much the Moore School charged for time on the ENIAC.

Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2007 12:39:55 AM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Very cool find!

Gang,

 

Check out the file called “contract.jpg” in the files section of our Yahoo group.  Fred sent it to me tonight; I don’t know yet where he found it.  He said it’s probably not a bill for the ENIAC, but it’s from something very close on ENIAC’s heels.

 

I’ll see if we can get a large version of this and frame it for a museum display.

 

http://tinyurl.com/3bo8yn

 

- Evan



#5907 From: Mike Loewen <mloewen@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:23 pm
Subject: RE: Very cool find!
mloewen16823
Send Email Send Email
 
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Bill Sudbrink wrote:

> Basically, a differential analyzer is a very large slide rule.  Some good
> footage of one can be seen in the
> science fiction movie "When Worlds Collide".

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200208/history.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:KayMcNultyAlyseSnyderSisStumpDifferentialAnal\
yzer.jpg
http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/mauchly/jwm5.html

     ...and an excerpt from :

http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/61ordnance/chap1.html

"The Moore School of Electrical Engineering of the University of
Pennsylvania had a Bush Differential Analyzer of somewhat larger capacity
than the one at Aberdeen Proving Ground. It had fourteen integrating units
instead of ten. Therefore the Ordnance Department awarded a contract to
the University of Pennsylvania for the utilization of this device. Several
additional contracts were later awarded to the University to carry out
different phases of the increasingly important role which it was to play
in the computation activities of the Ordnance Department during the war.

Lt. P. N. Gillon, in his capacity as officer in charge of ballistic
computations, conferred frequently with Dean Pender, Professor Brainerd,
and their associates at the Moore School in order to effect proper
coordination of the computational work at the two localities, Philadelphia
and Aberdeen. There was a very talented group at the Moore School under
the direction of Professor Brainerd and as a result of Lt. Gillon's
discussions with them Assistant Professor Weygand undertook to develop an
electronic torque amplifier to replace the mechanical torque amplifiers on
the Bush Differential Analyzers. This work was eminently successful and,
in addition, photoelectric followers were developed by the Moore School
group for both the input and output tables of the analyzer. As a result of
these accomplishments the productive capacity of the analyzers at both the
Moore School and Aberdeen Proving Ground were enhanced by at least an
order of magnitude."


Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

#5908 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 4:06 pm
Subject: RE: Very cool find!
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Awesome information.  Thanks for checking into this, Mike.


> On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
>
>> Basically, a differential analyzer is a very large slide rule.  Some
>> good
>> footage of one can be seen in the
>> science fiction movie "When Worlds Collide".
>
> http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200208/history.cfm
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:KayMcNultyAlyseSnyderSisStumpDifferentialAnal\
yzer.jpg
> http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/mauchly/jwm5.html
>
>     ...and an excerpt from :
>
> http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/61ordnance/chap1.html
>
> "The Moore School of Electrical Engineering of the University of
> Pennsylvania had a Bush Differential Analyzer of somewhat larger capacity
> than the one at Aberdeen Proving Ground. It had fourteen integrating units
> instead of ten. Therefore the Ordnance Department awarded a contract to
> the University of Pennsylvania for the utilization of this device. Several
> additional contracts were later awarded to the University to carry out
> different phases of the increasingly important role which it was to play
> in the computation activities of the Ordnance Department during the war.
>
> Lt. P. N. Gillon, in his capacity as officer in charge of ballistic
> computations, conferred frequently with Dean Pender, Professor Brainerd,
> and their associates at the Moore School in order to effect proper
> coordination of the computational work at the two localities, Philadelphia
> and Aberdeen. There was a very talented group at the Moore School under
> the direction of Professor Brainerd and as a result of Lt. Gillon's
> discussions with them Assistant Professor Weygand undertook to develop an
> electronic torque amplifier to replace the mechanical torque amplifiers on
> the Bush Differential Analyzers. This work was eminently successful and,
> in addition, photoelectric followers were developed by the Moore School
> group for both the input and output tables of the analyzer. As a result of
> these accomplishments the productive capacity of the analyzers at both the
> Moore School and Aberdeen Proving Ground were enhanced by at least an
> order of magnitude."
>
>
> Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
> Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

#5909 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 4:08 am
Subject: Just in case...
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 

If anyone decides to join me at the museum tomorrow, and you get there and the gate’s closed, then just call my cell phone – 646-546-9999.  Planning to get there around 10 or 11.


#5910 From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: Just in case...
jtkirk1337
Send Email Send Email
 
What time do you think you'll be getting there today? Barring any unforeseen circumstances between now and when I leave, I should be able to get there today.

Thanks
Joe

On 8/4/07, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:

If anyone decides to join me at the museum tomorrow, and you get there and the gate's closed, then just call my cell phone – 646-546-9999.  Planning to get there around 10 or 11.



#5911 From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 1:06 pm
Subject: Wifi at Infoage
jtkirk1337
Send Email Send Email
 
Just had an idea regarding WiFi internet access at Infoage...

Has anyone ever heard of La Fonera router? Its a small, white WiFi router, produced by a European Company called fon. It provides unlimited WiFi access to the internet for $2 a day, one dollar of which goes to fon, the other dollar goes to whoever purchased the router. So if MARCH were to purchase the $50 router, onve 50 people sign on, it will have been paid for. You can also get free access through it, because on the bottom of the router is the WEP encryption key for that serial number router. My brother recently won one of these, I could bring it in today to show, but he already registered it, so we wouldn't be able to use it.



#5912 From: "Evan" <evan@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: Just in case...
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Just woke up, so close to noon.

#5913 From: "Evan" <evan@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 2:04 pm
Subject: More like noon today...
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
10 will not happen, I just woke up.

#5914 From: "Evan" <evan@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: Wifi at Infoage
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks for the tip.

#5915 From: Jim Scheef <jscheef@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 10:18 pm
Subject: Re: Wifi at Infoage
jscheef
Send Email Send Email
 
Joe,

Very interesting. I had not heard of this 'service' but, naturally, others have. See http://stefans.datenbruch.de/lafonera/ for more information on how this router works and how to "open it up". The problem with getting Wi-Fi working at InfoAge is not the fact there there is no router - I'll donate a router. The problem is that the router needs a DSL or cable connection to the Internet. There is no DSL or cable at InfoAge, at least not in the hotel. There is not even a phone. That's why we did the Wi-Fi connection across the street for VCF. That link worked much better than I had expected but it is not something we can do all the time. There has been talk of Verizon donating DSL service to InfoAge or MARCH. Someday we'll get all this working.

Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Giliberti <Starbase89@...>
To: midatlanticretro <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2007 9:06:11 AM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Wifi at Infoage

Just had an idea regarding WiFi internet access at Infoage...

Has anyone ever heard of La Fonera router? Its a small, white WiFi router, produced by a European Company called fon. It provides unlimited WiFi access to the internet for $2 a day, one dollar of which goes to fon, the other dollar goes to whoever purchased the router. So if MARCH were to purchase the $50 router, onve 50 people sign on, it will have been paid for. You can also get free access through it, because on the bottom of the router is the WEP encryption key for that serial number router. My brother recently won one of these, I could bring it in today to show, but he already registered it, so we wouldn't be able to use it.




#5916 From: "Evan" <evan@...>
Date: Sat Aug 4, 2007 10:45 pm
Subject: Re: Wifi at Infoage
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Not entirely correct, there is a phone in the gift shop / office in the hotel.

Just got home.  Joe and I worked our butts off today.  Details to follow...

#5917 From: "Jeffrey Frady" <Legodude522@...>
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 5:42 am
Subject: Re: Just in case...
legodude522
Send Email Send Email
 
Work day?  Sorry I haven't been up to date on emails.

On 8/4/07, Evan <evan@...> wrote:

Just woke up, so close to noon.




--
Moderator at http://www.PalmInfocenter.com
Moderator at http://forums.palm.com

#5918 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 12:02 am
Subject: Important museum update
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 

Hi all,

 

Today was an ordinary day at InfoAge – our room had about 15 visitors during the three public “open” hours – but they’ve been staying in the room for longer and longer each week, since ours has an air conditioner that works very well. J  Captive audience!!  We’ve also had many visitors who say, “I was at / I heard about your show in June and wanted to see more.”

 

Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.  We removed the vast majority of the peeling paint, but there’s a LOT of non-peeling paint still there.  It seems to be a really massive challenge, time-wise, to remove all of that old paint.  We considered using a belt sander (while we’d wear respirators), and/or using an industrial solvent of some kind, but I spoke with Fred yesterday and again today, and he said “no way” to those ideas.  He assures me that new paint designed to adhere to metal, i.e. Rustoleum, while work a lot better than I expect.  And he says that choosing the right color, such as dark green or blue, will cover up most of the bumpy areas where old paint is still underneath.  So I’m trusting his experience on this matter.  Just have to remove a little bit more of the peeling stuff, and then we’ll apply new paint to that area.  Some of the paint on the adjacent sheetrock is also peeling, but there it’s more likely that Fred or Steve will just put in new sheetrock.  When this job (which really isn’t as big as I’m making it sound) is done, then we will have a clean enough entrance to our museum rooms.

 

Meanwhile, to prepare the actual rooms: for those who don’t recall or never visited, we have four rooms.  Three are about the size of an ordinary office, and one is double-sized.  The double-sized room is closest to the entranceway and we already have a piece of carpet for it; just have to lay that carpet down.  What we’ll do with computer gear currently in that large room is disperse it into the smaller rooms, and also move some of it (the smaller, random stuff) into our basement storage area.  Then we’ll put down the carpet (which will be easy) and be able to start making exhibits!  I believe we’re just two more solid workdays away from being in that position.

 

This part is open for debate, but I believe our first three exhibits should be: 1., Computing at Camp Evans / Computing in the Military (parts of computer history with direct ties to what happened in these hallways – there is a nice list); 2., Computers of the Region (literally, an exhibit of interesting computers made by companies around these parts, from – I guess – Boston to Pittsburgh to DC); 3., 70s/80s personal computers (since those are easiest to exhibit and will most likely resonate with our visitors.)

 

And so, our next official workday (plenty of notice this time!!) will be Saturday, August 25, 10:30am until whenever, although I’ll continue working on these things a little at a time until then.

 

That’s all for now.  I feel a HUGE sense of community accomplishment, now that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Comments / questions are highly encouraged.  (For the 19 millionth time: this is YOUR club, not mine.)

 

- Evan


#5919 From: "B Degnan" <billdeg@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 12:26 am
Subject: Re: Important museum update
billdeg
Send Email Send Email
 
<snip>
>
> That's all for now.  I feel a HUGE sense of community accomplishment,
> now that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Comments /
> questions are highly encouraged.  (For the 19 millionth time: this is
> YOUR club, not mine.)
>
> - Evan
>


Excellent...I am sure I speak for the whole group - Thank you guys!  I
will try to come on the 25th, if I can.
Bill

-END-

#5920 From: Jim Scheef <jscheef@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 12:55 am
Subject: Re: Important museum update
jscheef
Send Email Send Email
 
Evan,

This is great. I can't believe we'll have a museum room by fall!

Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2007 8:02:02 PM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Important museum update

Hi all,

 

Today was an ordinary day at InfoAge – our room had about 15 visitors during the three public “open” hours – but they’ve been staying in the room for longer and longer each week, since ours has an air conditioner that works very well. J  Captive audience!!  We’ve also had many visitors who say, “I was at / I heard about your show in June and wanted to see more.”

 

Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.  We removed the vast majority of the peeling paint, but there’s a LOT of non-peeling paint still there.  It seems to be a really massive challenge, time-wise, to remove all of that old paint.  We considered using a belt sander (while we’d wear respirators), and/or using an industrial solvent of some kind, but I spoke with Fred yesterday and again today, and he said “no way” to those ideas.  He assures me that new paint designed to adhere to metal, i.e. Rustoleum, while work a lot better than I expect.  And he says that choosing the right color, such as dark green or blue, will cover up most of the bumpy areas where old paint is still underneath.  So I’m trusting his experience on this matter.  Just have to remove a little bit more of the peeling stuff, and then we’ll apply new paint to that area.  Some of the paint on the adjacent sheetrock is also peeling, but there it’s more likely that Fred or Steve will just put in new sheetrock.  When this job (which really isn’t as big as I’m making it sound) is done, then we will have a clean enough entrance to our museum rooms.

 

Meanwhile, to prepare the actual rooms: for those who don’t recall or never visited, we have four rooms.  Three are about the size of an ordinary office, and one is double-sized.  The double-sized room is closest to the entranceway and we already have a piece of carpet for it; just have to lay that carpet down.  What we’ll do with computer gear currently in that large room is disperse it into the smaller rooms, and also move some of it (the smaller, random stuff) into our basement storage area.  Then we’ll put down the carpet (which will be easy) and be able to start making exhibits!  I believe we’re just two more solid workdays away from being in that position.

 

This part is open for debate, but I believe our first three exhibits should be: 1., Computing at Camp Evans / Computing in the Military (parts of computer history with direct ties to what happened in these hallways – there is a nice list); 2., Computers of the Region (literally, an exhibit of interesting computers made by companies around these parts, from – I guess – Boston to Pittsburgh to DC); 3., 70s/80s personal computers (since those are easiest to exhibit and will most likely resonate with our visitors.)

 

And so, our next official workday (plenty of notice this time!!) will be Saturday, August 25, 10:30am until whenever, although I’ll continue working on these things a little at a time until then.

 

That’s all for now.  I feel a HUGE sense of community accomplishment, now that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Comments / questions are highly encouraged.  (For the 19 millionth time: this is YOUR club, not mine.)

 

- Evan



#5921 From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 1:40 am
Subject: Re: Important museum update
toober00
Send Email Send Email
 
> Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the
> metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.

Wuss. Let me know whenyou have to deal with paint that comes in eight
inch incements.

> We considered using a belt sander (while we'd wear respirators), and/or using
an
> industrial solvent of some kind, but I spoke with Fred yesterday and again
today,
> and he said "no way" to those ideas.  He assures me that new paint designed to
> adhere to metal, i.e. Rustoleum, while work a lot better than I expect.  And
he says
> that choosing the right color, such as dark green or blue, will cover up most
of the
> bumpy areas where old paint is still underneath.

The best way to remove paint, in my opinion, is still an old triangle
shaped chipper (other shapes are available), or the "green"
environmentally freindly goops. Stay away from the nasty petrochemical
things of old - they work, but leave such a mess, and you slowly die..
When you have a lot of time (a couple of days) and large flat expanses
(like on a door), the green goop is pretty great.

I am currently (always?) restoring a house from 1776, with my cousin
(half owner of the house) being a classcially trained archiologist
often looking over my shoulder, so I get to do a LOT of very proper
paint removal.

A standard chipper, with a *light* touch, can do wonders. Make sure
the blades are SHARP. Yes, there will be some damage to the wood, but
nothing a little steam or filler can not fix. And with metal? No big
deal, unless you are Hercules. When you strip, you MUST strip it all.
Modern paints WILL NOT hide half stripped areas. Nothing will. If you
chip, be prepared to chip it ALL, or be skilled at filling and sanding
the transition zone, so the differences in the paint will be hidden.

Dark colors are better than light colors for hiding flaws, but better
yet is the lustre of the paint - the flatter the paint is, the more
sins are hidden. Unfortuneately, flat paints tend to look bad on
moulding and doorframes, so pick something middle of the road -
semi-gloss.

I am still a fan (and user) of oil paints (like Rustoleum), but unless
you realy know what you are doing, stick to latex. Good latex, as in
Baer or Benjamin Moore. WIth paint, you get what you pay for. And if
you must ue oils, used a Benjamin Moore oil. A few places will still
color match oils.

The choice is yours when it comes to painting. If you do a quick job,
you will need to do a quick repaint later. Do a very careful complete
job, and you can ignore it for years.

--
Will

#5922 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 2:14 am
Subject: RE: Important museum update
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
>>> The best way to remove paint, in my opinion

Will, thanks for all this good advice.  I suspect that InfoAge's tool
edges are dull and haven't been replaced in eons.  Maybe I'll try again
with some new blades.

Or you could come visit and be as helpful as you were at VCF.  :)

- Evan

#5923 From: "D Bailey" <ddbailey_2234@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 3:02 am
Subject: Fw:Scrapping off old paint
bailey_2234
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Brother
 
At various sizes, and if or not you are using a blow torch (which is effective in gently softening old paint by heat taking care however to avoid burning and/or scorching any wood), followed by the use of a skarsten scraper.  This scraper will give a finish very nearly immediately suitable for priming etc
 
 
 
Another brother  UK based
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Important museum update

> Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the
> metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.

Wuss. Let me know whenyou have to deal with paint that comes in eight
inch incements.

> We considered using a belt sander (while we'd wear respirators), and/or using an
> industrial solvent of some kind, but I spoke with Fred yesterday and again today,
> and he said "no way" to those ideas. He assures me that new paint designed to
> adhere to metal, i.e. Rustoleum, while work a lot better than I expect. And he says
> that choosing the right color, such as dark green or blue, will cover up most of the
> bumpy areas where old paint is still underneath.

The best way to remove paint, in my opinion, is still an old triangle
shaped chipper (other shapes are available), or the "green"
environmentally freindly goops. Stay away from the nasty petrochemical
things of old - they work, but leave such a mess, and you slowly die..
When you have a lot of time (a couple of days) and large flat expanses
(like on a door), the green goop is pretty great.

I am currently (always?) restoring a house from 1776, with my cousin
(half owner of the house) being a classcially trained archiologist
often looking over my shoulder, so I get to do a LOT of very proper
paint removal.

A standard chipper, with a *light* touch, can do wonders. Make sure
the blades are SHARP. Yes, there will be some damage to the wood, but
nothing a little steam or filler can not fix. And with metal? No big
deal, unless you are Hercules. When you strip, you MUST strip it all.
Modern paints WILL NOT hide half stripped areas. Nothing will. If you
chip, be prepared to chip it ALL, or be skilled at filling and sanding
the transition zone, so the differences in the paint will be hidden.

Dark colors are better than light colors for hiding flaws, but better
yet is the lustre of the paint - the flatter the paint is, the more
sins are hidden. Unfortuneately, flat paints tend to look bad on
moulding and doorframes, so pick something middle of the road -
semi-gloss.

I am still a fan (and user) of oil paints (like Rustoleum), but unless
you realy know what you are doing, stick to latex. Good latex, as in
Baer or Benjamin Moore. WIth paint, you get what you pay for. And if
you must ue oils, used a Benjamin Moore oil. A few places will still
color match oils.

The choice is yours when it comes to painting. If you do a quick job,
you will need to do a quick repaint later. Do a very careful complete
job, and you can ignore it for years.

--
Will


#5924 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 3:17 am
Subject: RE: Fw:Scrapping off old paint
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 

Dear brother?  A UK person on MARCH?  Huh???

 

Anyway, I will check out this “skarsten” thing, never heard of that before.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: D Bailey [mailto:ddbailey_2234@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 11:02 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Fw:Scrapping off old paint

 

Dear Brother

 

At various sizes, and if or not you are using a blow torch (which is effective in gently softening old paint by heat taking care however to avoid burning and/or scorching any wood), followed by the use of a skarsten scraper.  This scraper will give a finish very nearly immediately suitable for priming etc

 

 

 

Another brother  UK based

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 2:40 AM

Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Important museum update

 

> Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the
> metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.

Wuss. Let me know whenyou have to deal with paint that comes in eight
inch incements.

> We considered using a belt sander (while we'd wear respirators), and/or using an
> industrial solvent of some kind, but I spoke with Fred yesterday and again today,
> and he said "no way" to those ideas. He assures me that new paint designed to
> adhere to metal, i.e. Rustoleum, while work a lot better than I expect. And he says
> that choosing the right color, such as dark green or blue, will cover up most of the
> bumpy areas where old paint is still underneath.

The best way to remove paint, in my opinion, is still an old triangle
shaped chipper (other shapes are available), or the "green"
environmentally freindly goops. Stay away from the nasty petrochemical
things of old - they work, but leave such a mess, and you slowly die..
When you have a lot of time (a couple of days) and large flat expanses
(like on a door), the green goop is pretty great.

I am currently (always?) restoring a house from 1776, with my cousin
(half owner of the house) being a classcially trained archiologist
often looking over my shoulder, so I get to do a LOT of very proper
paint removal.

A standard chipper, with a *light* touch, can do wonders. Make sure
the blades are SHARP. Yes, there will be some damage to the wood, but
nothing a little steam or filler can not fix. And with metal? No big
deal, unless you are Hercules. When you strip, you MUST strip it all.
Modern paints WILL NOT hide half stripped areas. Nothing will. If you
chip, be prepared to chip it ALL, or be skilled at filling and sanding
the transition zone, so the differences in the paint will be hidden.

Dark colors are better than light colors for hiding flaws, but better
yet is the lustre of the paint - the flatter the paint is, the more
sins are hidden. Unfortuneately, flat paints tend to look bad on
moulding and doorframes, so pick something middle of the road -
semi-gloss.

I am still a fan (and user) of oil paints (like Rustoleum), but unless
you realy know what you are doing, stick to latex. Good latex, as in
Baer or Benjamin Moore. WIth paint, you get what you pay for. And if
you must ue oils, used a Benjamin Moore oil. A few places will still
color match oils.

The choice is yours when it comes to painting. If you do a quick job,
you will need to do a quick repaint later. Do a very careful complete
job, and you can ignore it for years.

--
Will


#5925 From: Dan Roganti <ragooman@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: Important museum update
ragoo_sauce
Send Email Send Email
 

You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can scrape it off with a putty knife.

=Dan

Evan Koblentz wrote:


 

Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.  We removed the vast majority of the peeling paint, but there’s a LOT of non-peeling paint still there.  It seems to be a really massive challenge, time-wise, to remove all of that old paint.



#5926 From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 3:23 pm
Subject: Re: Important museum update
toober00
Send Email Send Email
 
>  You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a
blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can
scrape it off with a putty knife.

If the metal doorframes come anywhere near contact with wood, even
studs inside the walls, using a heat gun is ABSOLUTELY NOT
RECOMMENDED. The risk for fire is very large. If the metal doorframes
ONLY touch masonry, you can use a heat gun.

Heatguns are OK on wood, of course.

--
Will

#5927 From: Dan Roganti <ragooman@...>
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 7:58 pm
Subject: Re: Important museum update
ragoo_sauce
Send Email Send Email
 

In any event, you might have to resort to just painting over to avoid any EPA issues regarding paint removal/fumes on an old gov't/state installation since there's most likely lead in that paint--in some or all the layers--there's strict guidelines for lead paint removal. Something Fred probably didnt want to elaborate to avoid giving you any more headaches :)

A blowtorch, as suggested previously, has a much higher temp than a heatgun, >1000F
At least with a heatgun, you can use the low setting , usually 700/800F
Even a heatgun can cause burn spots in wood if not used correctly.
In combination with the large surface area of the sheet metal doorframe creates a heatsink which disperses the heat.
An old trick I always do on a window pane is to cover the window glass with sheet metal to protect it from cracking under the heat when removing old paint.

=Dan


William Donzelli wrote:

> You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can scrape it off with a putty knife.

If the metal doorframes come anywhere near contact with wood, even
studs inside the walls, using a heat gun is ABSOLUTELY NOT
RECOMMENDED. The risk for fire is very large. If the metal doorframes
ONLY touch masonry, you can use a heat gun.

Heatguns are OK on wood, of course.

--
Will


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