Festivus followup: this is the Yahoo group for Selectric typewriters, terminals
and clones:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golfballtypewritershop/

Hey All,

Not exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on this list maybe the
finest on the internet for answering this question.

I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will only need to do it 10
times so if its's laborious.

I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a hammer and block of
wood. I'm now ready for some advice if anyone has got some.


Ben

--- On Fri, 12/14/12, Ben Greenfield <ben@...> wrote:
>
> Not exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on
> this list maybe the finest on the internet for answering
> this question.

I'd say this is exactly on topic - this is something that pretty much everyone
has to do at some point with vintage computers.

> I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will
> only need to do it 10 times so if its's laborious.
>
> I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a
> hammer and block of wood. I'm now ready for some advice if
> anyone has got some.

Don't use a hammer and don't strip the wires. These are IDC connectors,
Insulation Displacement Connector. The teeth puncture the insulation on the
cable.

Place the ribbon cable into the connector and line it up with the teeth. Then
use a clamp, vice, or other object to slowly squeeze it together. Personally, I
use a quickgrip type clamp (the kind you squeeze a handle on, rather than a C
clamp), and clamp the connector down to the workbench. This works so well I've
never found the need to buy a real ribbon cable press, despite doing this very
frequently.

-Ian

Hi,

I usually split it into it's individual cores, and then use an old pair
of cutters with a small "nick" in the jaws to strip each core, gently !.

Or do you need to strip it as a ribbon of 10 in one go ?, then I use a
proprietary wire stripper with the multi section jaws that "form" around
a wire, in that case they just strip all the cores at once. This type
(line wrap) -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0001K9W58/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9557926269&ref=asc_\
df_B0001K9W58

Mike.


On 14/12/2012 15:24, Ben Greenfield wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> Not exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on this list
> maybe the finest on the internet for answering this question.
>
> I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will only need to
> do it 10 times so if its's laborious.
>
> I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a hammer and
> block of wood. I'm now ready for some advice if anyone has got some.
>
> Ben
>
>

Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus@...> writes:

>--ow9T4tDefjBl9BSokPaTRIVC-WJSZy43yt0BDKc Content-Type: text/plain;
>charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>--- On Fri, 12/14/12, Ben Greenfield <ben@...> wrote: > > Not
>exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on > this list maybe
>the finest on the internet for answering > this question.
>
>I'd say this is exactly on topic - this is something that pretty much
>everyone has to do at some point with vintage computers.
>
>> I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will only need
>>to do it 10 times so if its's laborious.  I have tried 3 variations
>>of stripping the wires and using a hammer and block of wood. I'm now
>>ready for some advice if anyone has got some.

I was going to suggest poison or a gun! :)



>Don't use a hammer and don't strip the wires. These are IDC connectors,
>Insulation Displacement Connector. The teeth puncture the insulation on
>the cable.
>
>Place the ribbon cable into the connector and line it up with the teeth.
>Then use a clamp, vice, or other object to slowly squeeze it together.
>Personally, I use a quickgrip type clamp (the kind you squeeze a handle
>on, rather than a C clamp), and clamp the connector down to the workbench.
>This works so well I've never found the need to buy a real ribbon cable
>press, despite doing this very frequently.

I'd second Ian's suggestion of the quickgrips clamps.  I have several
of these with hard-rubber padding, so they don't scar the connector.
Use of a vice, without some sort of similar guard, can leave teeth
marks in the connector.  You also risk crushing the connector if you
are too overzealous when you close the vice.  The only time I used my
vice was when making 50 conductor cables for early SCSI connections
because there was too much force needed to completely compress the
connector on the cable.

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "And though it seems they smile with glee, I know in truth they envy me
        and watch as my befuddled brain, shines on brightly quite insane"

There is a press to terminal cables, I have one, but it's for drive cables.
  Each cable type has a different die.

-------- Original Message --------
> From: "Ben Greenfield" <ben@...>
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 10:53 AM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [midatlanticretro] off topic- how to hand terminate ribbon
cable
>
> Hey All,
>
> Not exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on this list maybe
the finest on the internet for answering this question.
>
> I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will only need to
do it 10 times so if its's laborious.
>
> I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a hammer and
block of wood. I'm now ready for some advice if anyone has got some.
>
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Ben does not mention termination to an IDC connector.
If it is a vice with smooth jaws is the easiest.

Mike.


On 14/12/2012 15:24, Ben Greenfield wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> Not exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on this list
> maybe the finest on the internet for answering this question.
>
> I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will only need to
> do it 10 times so if its's laborious.
>
> I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a hammer and
> block of wood. I'm now ready for some advice if anyone has got some.
>
> Ben
>
>

On 12/14/2012 10:24 AM, Ben Greenfield wrote:
> Not exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on this list
> maybe the finest on the internet for answering this question.
>
> I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will only need
> to do it 10 times so if its's laborious.
>
> I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a hammer
> and block of wood. I'm now ready for some advice if anyone has got
> some.

   Assuming it's an IDC connector...

   One does not strip or separate the wires before attaching the
connector.  The action of the connector depends upon the wires' webbing
not being separated.  When you crimp one of these connectors closed, the
pins cut through the insulation and make contact with the conductors.
IDC == Insulation Displacement Connector.

   There are crimpers specifically designed for doing this.  For years I
used a machinist's vise (non-serrated jaws), then I dropped nearly $300
for the crimper.  It was then stolen, which really pissed me off.  It
was only marginally better than the vise, though, so I just went back to
the vise.

   The important thing is to maintain orthogonality to the axis of the
connector...straight down, as even the slightest angle can cause
problems, either bad crimps or broken connectors.  Crank it down until
the pressure only just begins to increase dramatically, looking around
the perimeter constantly to ensure orthogonality.

   If you do this a few times, it will just become automatic and you
won't even think about it any more. (or worry about it, for that matter!)

               -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

The only thing to add at this point is to suggest that you spend the extra few
cents and add a strain relief clip across the back. If you really want to go
whole hog, you also include a pull tab when you snap on the strain relief.

Jack

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Ben Greenfield <ben@...> wrote:
>
> Hey All,
>
> Not exactly on topic but I feel the skills represented on this list maybe the
finest on the internet for answering this question.
>
> I have 10 pin ribbon cable that I want to terminate I will only need to do it
10 times so if its's laborious.
>
> I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a hammer and block
of wood. I'm now ready for some advice if anyone has got some.
>
>
> Ben
>

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Ben Greenfield <ben@...> wrote:
>
> I have tried 3 variations of stripping the wires and using a hammer and block
of wood. I'm now ready for some advice if anyone has got some.
>

I usually use the Vise to squeeze the IDC connector.  I had one of the
professional tools, and they do the same thing.  Best to put a smooth surface
inside the vise to even the pressure and not mark the plastic.

Good luck.
Josh

> I'm curious, how many of you installed a switch to override the need to put a
black tab on the write protect notch?

Have done! Also, I use a Shugart 800 out of an old Tektronix terminal with my
Ohio Scientific Challenger III -- it came with a hardware write protect switch
wired onto the standard Shugart drive board.

Thanks,
Jonathan

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-"
<VAXman@...> wrote:
>
> Use of a vice, without some sort of similar guard, can leave teeth
> marks in the connector.  You also risk crushing the connector if you
> are too overzealous when you close the vice.  The only time I used my
> vice was when making 50 conductor cables for early SCSI connections
> because there was too much force needed to completely compress the
> connector on the cable.
>


Good point.  The Vice can destroy your connector.  Only close until you see
there's no more movement in the clip.  You'll hear a click on some of the 3M
connectors.  Further, don't worry about pushing more of the wire through the
other end,  you can always trim it with a sharp knife.  But if you don't push
enough wire through, then that's a problem.

Great advice everyone!

J.

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
>
> There is a press to terminal cables, I have one, but it's for drive cables.
>  Each cable type has a different die.

I've used them at work.  The various die's snap in place.  This press is very
expensive for home use.  I think they cost $300 up to $600.

A vice with some flat hard wood or aluminum strips to cushion the connector
works equally well.

Josh

>> This list is pure gold.

Yay, us. (Seriously: thank you.)

someone at Festivus asked for braided nylon lacing cord:

http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=19299+MI
Item Number: 19299 MI
Unit Price: $9.95
Nylon Lacing Tape, MIL-T-43435B 250Yds.

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Richard Cini <rich.cini@...> wrote:
>
> All --
>
> Today I was able to get my 8" Lobo drives working with my IMSAI. Whoo Hoo!
> What was giving me fits was that the drives weren't going "ready". Where I
> went wrong was that I was using DSDD disks for testing and not SSSD disks. I
> figured that the sides wouldn't matter but I was mistaken in thinking that
> the DD disks were backward-usable on the SD drives. Once I dug out SSSD Type
> 1 disks, everything worked. Yea!


Why is that?  I'm wondering why does a "SD" head care if it's a DD or SD disk?

I'm not doubting this, just wondering why.

I remember the days of DOS and how 360K disks (formatted on a 360K Drive) didn't
work (for the most part) on 1.2M drives.  The 1.2M drives were suppose to be
able to be backward compatible with those DSDD 5.25 disks. Right?

> I usually use the Vise to squeeze the IDC connector.  I had one of

For smaller (up to 34-pin) connectors, I found that a pair of ChannelLock
pliers, and a bit of care, worked just fine.  The ones I had kept the jaws
more-or-less parallel as they closed, so it squished all of the wires reasonably
uniformly.  Fast, too!
~~
Mark Moulding

>Why is that? I'm wondering why does a "SD" head care if it's a DD or SD
disk?

Index sensor is in a different place for DS verses SS. I don't think it
cares about density at all.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012, joshbensadon wrote:

> --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Richard Cini <rich.cini@...> wrote:
>>
>> All --
>>
>> Today I was able to get my 8" Lobo drives working with my IMSAI. Whoo Hoo!
>> What was giving me fits was that the drives weren't going "ready". Where I
>> went wrong was that I was using DSDD disks for testing and not SSSD disks. I
>> figured that the sides wouldn't matter but I was mistaken in thinking that
>> the DD disks were backward-usable on the SD drives. Once I dug out SSSD Type
>> 1 disks, everything worked. Yea!
>
>
> Why is that?  I'm wondering why does a "SD" head care if it's a DD or SD disk?

     It's not the density that matters, but single or double sided.  The
index hole aperture in an single-sided 8" disk is in a different location
than on a double-sided disk.  Double-sided drives will typically have two
index hole sensors: one for single-sided and the other for double-sided.


Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
Old Technology       http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012, Richard Cini wrote:

>>> The index hole aperture in an single-sided 8" disk is in a different
location
>>> than on a double-sided disk.
>
> This is one fact that I didn't know and was the cause of my issues
> (apparently). I didn't realize there was a difference so I was chasing down
> several different paths.

     Ouch - I feel for you, man.

     I spent several hours trying to figure out why my HP 2109E wouldn't
boot from the HP-IB drive.  After chasing signals through connectors and
cables, it turned out that a previous owner had installed a ribbon cable
BACKWARDS.  You wouldn't think it would matter, but it did.


Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
Old Technology       http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

Anybody want a 31" CRT TV and/or a nice couch/futon thing? Both free to good
homes. I need to get rid of both ASAP. Making room for a new HD LED television
and a grown-up couch.  :)

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly D. Leavitt" <kelly@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Why is that? I'm wondering why does a "SD" head care if it's a DD or SD
> disk?
>
> Index sensor is in a different place for DS verses SS. I don't think it
> cares about density at all.


Thanks Kelly,

I should have known this from a disk Jonathan sent me.  He cut the jacket in a
different spot to let the index hole work.  PS. I could read the disk he made on
his SS drive, so density didn't matter.

Josh

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:

>     It's not the density that matters, but single or double sided.  The
> index hole aperture in an single-sided 8" disk is in a different location
> than on a double-sided disk.  Double-sided drives will typically have two
> index hole sensors: one for single-sided and the other for double-sided.
>


Thanks Mike,

I did not know that.  Would you happen to know more about what the DS drive does
with two index hole sensors?  Like does it merge them into the single index
pulse on the 50 pin?  Is a new pin used for the 2nd sensor?  Or is there a new
pin used to tell the controller it's a DS disk?

Cheers,
Josh

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012, joshbensadon wrote:

> --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
>
>>     It's not the density that matters, but single or double sided.  The
>> index hole aperture in an single-sided 8" disk is in a different location
>> than on a double-sided disk.  Double-sided drives will typically have two
>> index hole sensors: one for single-sided and the other for double-sided.
>>
>
> I did not know that.  Would you happen to know more about what the DS
> drive does with two index hole sensors?  Like does it merge them into
> the single index pulse on the 50 pin?  Is a new pin used for the 2nd
> sensor?  Or is there a new pin used to tell the controller it's a DS
> disk?

     The double-sided drives have a 2S signal on pin 10 of the interface
connector to indicate single or double-sided media.  The outputs of the
respective pulse-shaping ciruitry for each sensor is essentially ORed to
form a single Index pulse output.


Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
Old Technology       http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
>
>     The double-sided drives have a 2S signal on pin 10 of the interface
> connector to indicate single or double-sided media.  The outputs of the
> respective pulse-shaping ciruitry for each sensor is essentially ORed to
> form a single Index pulse output.


Cool, so I can imagine the two sensor signals going to an RS flip flop to
provide the 2S signal and as you said to an OR gate for the index.

Hmm, thinking about why, I guess the design was to create a hardware error if a
user placed a DS disk into a SS drive.  As Rich found, the lack of index pulses
caused a drive not ready.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but in later 5.25" drives,
they did not change the index sensor location.  Then I suppose the errors
created would be software generated?

I vaguely remember hearing a discussion about how computers switched from
hardware solutions to software solutions, then back to hardware.  I just don't
know the dates, could this 8" to 5.25" be part of that switch?

:) Josh

There's a complete set of Ciarcia books on eBay right now, $75 BIN.
This is a really, really good deal on some awesome books.  There's much
to be learned and much fun to be had in these tomes.

   http://www.ebay.com/itm/251200512081

   The first two volumes of this set are what got me into computers.

   (not associated with seller, I already have them, yadda yadda)

                 -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA